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10995 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 May 2014 at 8:43 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-10 04:44:05 AM  

meyerkev:  Trains make ZERO sense on that section of the West Coast.  They will never make sense.  Too many mountains, not enough people.


Europe has solved this problem with long term landing and investment for the further. You know, like we used to after WWII before government was hijacked by the plutocrats in this country.

Gotthard Base Tunnel.
 
2014-05-10 04:47:43 AM  
"Long term planning and investment for the future. "

Gottverdammt I hate autocorrect.
 
2014-05-10 05:25:25 AM  

lohphat: meyerkev:  Trains make ZERO sense on that section of the West Coast.  They will never make sense.  Too many mountains, not enough people.

Europe has solved this problem with long term landing and investment for the further. You know, like we used to after WWII before government was hijacked by the plutocrats in this country.

Gotthard Base Tunnel.


Yeah.  THAT TUNNEL makes sense.  Wanna know why?

maps.unomaha.edu


Your proposed route is non-productive investment.  It's not investing on the future, it's pouring money in a hole in the ground.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_(proposed_Pacific_state) - population density 6.27 people per sq. mile, total population 423K.  And it's never much better than that from Portland to Sacramento. With nothing but hundreds of miles of mountains between Eugene and Redding.

johnstonarchitects.files.wordpress.com

The proposed CA HSR is supposed to connect metropolitan areas of a combined 20 million people 400 miles apart with another few million in between.  It's mostly flat plains with a mere 3 mountain ranges in the way.  Sure, it's extortionately expensive, especially given the cost of the NIMBY's and the bureaucrats, but it's not stupid on its face.

Going from Portland to SF is 600 miles, of which a significant fraction is mountains and there's utter bupkis in between.  If you want to go to something in there, just drive.  If you want to go through that area, get on a plane, it's faster and cheaper  (And if you want to take some time to see the beauty of nature, which I highly recommend, drive because that way you can stop and take pictures and screw around in the national parks).  And if it takes $100 Billion to go from SF to LA, how expensive do you think it'll be to drive tracks through hundreds of miles of howling wilderness (and once again, mountains).  200 Billion?  300?  Is there ANY world in which the ridership numbers make it make sense to spend $200 Billion?  Especially when a plane ticket goes for $220 and takes less than 2 hours (Plus admittedly, TSA bullshiat)?

Vancouver to Seattle to Portland (and possibly a bit south of there)?  Makes sense.
California?  Stupidly expensive, but done right, could make sense.
Portland to SF?  Don't make me laugh.
 
2014-05-10 09:48:32 AM  

TomD9938: Ghastly: TomD9938: Fissile: lohphat: I'm tired living in a country that has stopped moving into the modern world.

I'll bet that kid on the left really made something of himself.

He looks like a "glass half full" kind of guy.

I dunno, the thousand yard stare just makes his smile look all the more plastered on.

I don't see that at all.  He looks confident and happy to me.

I could see him having owned an early and successful Buick dealership somewhere in the greater eastern Kentucky area.

Probably lamented in his old age that his kids had no idea how good they've had it.


I agree with you. Notice he has his arm around the shoulder of the guy beside him.
 
2014-05-10 12:46:55 PM  
ts2.mm.bing.net
 
2014-05-10 01:57:05 PM  

meyerkev:

The proposed CA HSR is supposed to connect metropolitan areas of a combined 20 million people 400 miles apart with another few million in between.  It's mostly flat plains with a mere 3 mountain ranges in the way.  Sure, it's extortionately expensive, especially given the cost of the NIMBY's and the bureaucrats, but it's not stupid on its face.

Going from Portland to SF is 600 miles, of which a significant fraction is mountains and there's utter bupkis in between.  If you want to go to something in there, just drive.  If you want to go through that area, get on a plane, it's faster and cheaper  (And if you want to take some time to see the beauty of nature, which I highly recommend, drive because that way you can stop and take pictures and screw around in the national parks).  And if it takes $100 Billion to go from SF to LA, how expensive do you think it'll be to drive tracks through hundreds of miles of howling wilderness (and once again, mountains).  200 Billion?  300?  Is there ANY world in which the ridership numbers make it make sense to spend $200 Billion?  ...


It's cheaper to fly because of evolved economies of SoCal and optimization of the air travel process and infrastructure. Cheap oil has also caused poor long-term choices of infrastructure. Rail travel is the cheapest way too move people or goods per unto distance than plane or road.

Yes I know it's currently cheaper to fly but besides people, commercial goods move by rail. The French post office uses TGVs to move mail quickly between major cities served.

Yes I kine that Europe is more compact but the build HSR lines be cause fuel is accurately priced. Yes after 500 miles or so it's better to fly so yes I'd fly to Barcelona. But Barcelona to Marseilles or Nice makes sense instead of flying.

It's a boy building the network so that even though widely separated cities may be connected, the intermediate cites would see more trips. So yes I could go from San Diego to Seattle but trips like Seattle/Portland, Portland/San Francisco, San Francisco/LA, LA/San Diego would be possible instead of flying or driving.

Yes it would be expensive but once oil prices start climbing, electrified HSR fed partially by wind and solar in the West will be cheaper.

What about the economic benefit of jobs and continued employment?

No one is advocating an East/West HSR connecting California with NY, yes, diesel makes much more sense currently but even there is room for innovation. The diesel trains I've ridden in the UK are faster and modern. We have 40 year old tech here in the West.

We're fast becoming a second class country because we've forgotten that progress is hard. As JFK said of the space program: We do these things not because they are easy, we do them because they are hard.

We used to see promises of cars of the future, houses of the future, transport of the future in the 50s-70s. Then we stopped dreaming. -- Neil de motherfarking Gras Tyson.
 
2014-05-10 01:58:21 PM  
Godt damned autocorrect.

Yes. I know. Preview is my friend.
 
2014-05-10 09:09:35 PM  

jelato: TomD9938: Ghastly: TomD9938: Fissile: lohphat: I'm tired living in a country that has stopped moving into the modern world.

I'll bet that kid on the left really made something of himself.

He looks like a "glass half full" kind of guy.

I dunno, the thousand yard stare just makes his smile look all the more plastered on.

I don't see that at all.  He looks confident and happy to me.

I could see him having owned an early and successful Buick dealership somewhere in the greater eastern Kentucky area.

Probably lamented in his old age that his kids had no idea how good they've had it.

I agree with you. Notice he has his arm around the shoulder of the guy beside him.


Yep.  He's a Goodtime Charlie, all the way.

As to the sad sack he's got his arm around... What's his Fark handle?
 
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