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(NYPost)   Of course townspeople would have a problem when a cop shoots a 93-year-old woman with no justification, who everyone loved. Now they want the cop fired. The question is why haven't they fired him yet? Even the mayor wants him gone   (nypost.com) divider line 204
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10274 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 May 2014 at 10:57 PM (10 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-09 08:03:08 PM
The joy of having a throwaway strapped to your ankle.
 
2014-05-09 08:14:05 PM
That's his second murder in a very short time. I have faith in the locals to take care of this.
 
2014-05-09 08:28:18 PM
She must have looked like a dog.
 
2014-05-09 08:33:10 PM
Oh wait, she was brandishing a gun.

Still not justified. Cops, your job is to DIE if need be to uphold the peace in the community. It's far better for you to take a bullet than to shoot an old lady if she's only threatening you. If she's threatening others, might be okay to take her out. But when you put on that badge, it's a solemn vow to serve and protect THE COMMUNITY, not yourself.
 
2014-05-09 10:10:12 PM
They should get about 25 people to surround this officer on duty at all times. Have people on foot, some on bikes, and some in cars. Follow him around all day every day. Take turns watching his house overnight.

I'm not suggesting violence, nor harassment. Just 50 eyeballs on him at all times. It's a small town, I'm sure they could pull it off.
 
2014-05-09 10:18:33 PM

doglover: Cops, your job is to DIE if need be to uphold the peace in the community.


Seriously?
 
2014-05-09 10:29:59 PM

CruiserTwelve: doglover: Cops, your job is to DIE if need be to uphold the peace in the community.

Seriously?


You wouldn't give your life for peace in the community?
 
2014-05-09 10:48:32 PM

CruiserTwelve: doglover: Cops, your job is to DIE if need be to uphold the peace in the community.

Seriously?


Yes, seriously.

It's called an ideal. Cops put their ass on the line so non-cops don't have to. And I say non-cops because, and this is important, COPS ARE CIVILIANS. They're not soldiers. They're not SUPPOSED to be soldiers.

If you're not willing to risk your own death to avoid being the guy who shoots down people's great grandmother on her own porch, you aren't cop material. Go get a job in a warehouse. The hours are better, the work easier, and you can still carry a gun because it's a free country.
 
2014-05-09 10:54:59 PM

doglover: CruiserTwelve: doglover: Cops, your job is to DIE if need be to uphold the peace in the community.

Seriously?

Yes, seriously.

It's called an ideal. Cops put their ass on the line so non-cops don't have to. And I say non-cops because, and this is important, COPS ARE CIVILIANS. They're not soldiers. They're not SUPPOSED to be soldiers.

If you're not willing to risk your own death to avoid being the guy who shoots down people's great grandmother on her own porch, you aren't cop material. Go get a job in a warehouse. The hours are better, the work easier, and you can still carry a gun because it's a free country.


Wait, what? You're saying that he cops should just stand there and get shot by people pointing guns at them? And somehow this will protect the neighbourhood?

JoieD'Zen: That's his second murder in a very short time. I have faith in the locals to take care of this.


FTA: "The circumstances surrounding Stem's first on-the-job fatal shooting were very different. Siegert said a group of officers had responded to a call in the middle of the night and wound up chasing several suspects through an unlit area before Stem fired. He was cleared by a grand jury."

Sounds like you're a bit biased?
 
2014-05-09 10:56:45 PM

doglover: If you're not willing to risk your own death to avoid being the guy who shoots down people's great grandmother on her own porch, you aren't cop material.


So, I should allow myself to be shot if defending myself might create a controversy? I'm hoping I'm just misunderstanding you.

Before people start claiming I'm defending the cop in the article, I'm not. If he was wrong, and it certainly looks like he was, he should suffer the consequences.
 
2014-05-09 10:58:20 PM

change1211: Wait, what? You're saying that he cops should just stand there and get shot by people pointing guns at them? And somehow this will protect the neighbourho


I don't think he's saying he should stand there. He's saying that he should understand the situation. Everybody loves this woman and for good reason. It's a small town, so it's not just some random wielding a gun. He should know she's probably not going to shoot because she's not that type of person.
 
2014-05-09 11:02:20 PM
Robertson County District Attorney Coty Siegert said a preliminary autopsy shows Golden was shot twice in the body and grazed by a third bullet. It's the second time Stem has shot and killed a suspect since joining the department in 2012, Siegert said.

Pace yourself...
 
2014-05-09 11:03:18 PM
Answer: the police officer's union won't allow the officer to be fired. I have seen fired officers rehired after wrongdoing because of union action many times .
 
2014-05-09 11:03:24 PM

jaylectricity: change1211: Wait, what? You're saying that he cops should just stand there and get shot by people pointing guns at them? And somehow this will protect the neighbourho

I don't think he's saying he should stand there. He's saying that he should understand the situation. Everybody loves this woman and for good reason. It's a small town, so it's not just some random wielding a gun. He should know she's probably not going to shoot because she's not that type of person.


There isn't exactly a huge amount of room wiggle room when someone is brandishing a gun, if you just assume that the person with the gun won't shoot you then you might end up with a hole somewhere it shouldn't be.

That being said the article sucks when it comes to details on the actual shooting.
 
2014-05-09 11:03:26 PM

doglover: Oh wait, she was brandishing a gun.

Still not justified. Cops, your job is to DIE if need be to uphold the peace in the community. It's far better for you to take a bullet than to shoot an old lady if she's only threatening you. If she's threatening others, might be okay to take her out. But when you put on that badge, it's a solemn vow to serve and protect THE COMMUNITY, not yourself.


She is 93 years old. Nap time can't be far off.
 
2014-05-09 11:04:47 PM
They have to do an investigation before they fire him.

How long will that take?

As long as it takes for everyone to forget about it so that they don't have to fire the cop.
 
2014-05-09 11:05:37 PM

jaylectricity: change1211: Wait, what? You're saying that he cops should just stand there and get shot by people pointing guns at them? And somehow this will protect the neighbourho

I don't think he's saying he should stand there. He's saying that he should understand the situation. Everybody loves this woman and for good reason. It's a small town, so it's not just some random wielding a gun. He should know she's probably not going to shoot because she's not that type of person.


I agree. When confronted by an old lady with a gun, it might be worth a try to talk her out of the situation rather than making sure that it ends in sorrow and death. The police officer is the role of a peacerkeeper, not a bringer of death.
 
2014-05-09 11:06:38 PM
If she pointed the gun at the cop, the hell with her. Her ass is getting shot regardless of age. Bullets don't care from what age the person firing them is.
/can't believe I am defending a cop.
//need to take a bath
 
2014-05-09 11:06:39 PM
A 93 year old can pull the trigger just as easy as a 20 year old. That is the beauty of a gun in self-defense situations as it evens the playing field against harmful situation.  Of course at the same time that means the police can treat the threat at the same level regardless of who is holding the weapon.  If she had a gun and didn't respond to the officers commands, it should be a good shoot.  You can't wait for her to raise the weapon.   Regardless of the idiots up thread, a police officer has the right to go home at the end of a shift.  Let the shooting be investigated before getting the pitchforks and torches out.
 
2014-05-09 11:06:39 PM
On the other hand...was she on Medicare?
 
2014-05-09 11:09:30 PM
Of course since he's a cop no one's even mentioned charging him, or arresting him,  just a firing.

You get fired for dropping your bandaid in someone's salad,  you shouldn't get to walk away from a murder because you're a cop.

/brandished a gun my ass
 
2014-05-09 11:10:41 PM

Boo_Guy: Of course since he's a cop no one's even mentioned charging him, or arresting him,  just a firing.

You get fired for dropping your bandaid in someone's salad,  you shouldn't get to walk away from a murder because you're a cop.

/brandished a gun my ass


Were you there? You seem to have a pretty good idea of exactly what happened.
 
2014-05-09 11:11:16 PM
How many of you guys know that an officer that shoots somebody, no matter how justified it was, is far more likely to do it again?

It makes me wonder if it might not be worth it to make it mandatory to retire ANY officer who shoots somebody, even if it comes out that it was completely necessary/justified.
 
2014-05-09 11:13:41 PM
Now they and the mayor of this small Texas town want the police officer who shot and killed her gone.

Is "killed her gone" the new "killed her dead"?
 
2014-05-09 11:13:57 PM

Firethorn: How many of you guys know that an officer that shoots somebody, no matter how justified it was, is far more likely to do it again?


I have often wondered the change that goes into a human mind after having killed a human being, regardless of why.

Probably why I'll never do it, because that's something you can't undo. I have a hard enough time dealing with the death of my daughter.
 
2014-05-09 11:15:33 PM

CruiserTwelve: So, I should allow myself to be shot if defending myself might create a controversy?


No.

You should allow yourself to be shot if defending yourself would make you unable to live with yourself later. Can you shoot a 93 year old woman and live with yourself afterwards?

If yes, that's fine, but then you're not cop material. They should weed people like that out of the force. Maybe the Marines need survivors. The police force needs compassionate, non retaliatory people who can suffer abuse verbal and physical without lashing out at those weaker than them and the intellectual capacity to diffuse highly dangerous situations without anyone resorting to violence.

Basically, cops should be like grade school teachers, but with a better left hook.
 
2014-05-09 11:16:17 PM

change1211: Boo_Guy: Of course since he's a cop no one's even mentioned charging him, or arresting him,  just a firing.

You get fired for dropping your bandaid in someone's salad,  you shouldn't get to walk away from a murder because you're a cop.

/brandished a gun my ass

Were you there? You seem to have a pretty good idea of exactly what happened.


Maybe I was,  maybe I wasn't,  know what I'm saying?
is0.4sqi.net
 
2014-05-09 11:16:46 PM
Stem could not be reached for comment because a number for him could not be found. Siegert said he saw Stem's lawyer this week but didn't know his name,

In a town of 4,500 this is investigative journalism
 
2014-05-09 11:18:21 PM
Newsflash: a lot of cops were bullied when they were little and now have the power of a 45. Just a small wager, but those same cops tortured small animals.

/CSB a cop in the town I lived in broke several laws in arresting me (when I was in cuffs goaded me to rile me up) I found out later that as a teenager, he and another burned an old ladies garage down.

Cops are called pigs for a reason. The good ones a few and far between.
 
2014-05-09 11:19:21 PM

Firethorn: How many of you guys know that an officer that shoots somebody, no matter how justified it was, is far more likely to do it again?

It makes me wonder if it might not be worth it to make it mandatory to retire ANY officer who shoots somebody, even if it comes out that it was completely necessary/justified.


Who did the study and did they control for the policing environment they are in?  An officer patrolling a high crime area may be required to use force repeatedly given the areas they serve and criminals encountered compared with a more rural environment.  Would you have to retire an entire police shift after an event such as the North Hollywood shootout?  Demanding that a department and individual lose their experience and ability to work seems rather expensive and harmful choice given the already small odds that a police officer would have to use his weapon.
 
2014-05-09 11:22:04 PM
He's killed 2 people in 2 years in a town with a population of less than 5,000.  I'd bet a dollar that most cops don't manage that in their entire career.
 
2014-05-09 11:24:33 PM
The police no longer answer to society.  In fact, the current system is society answers to police.
 
2014-05-09 11:26:04 PM
Saying it once again: I'm more afraid of American cops than of Islamic terrorists.

/At least we can shoot at the terrorists
 
2014-05-09 11:27:14 PM
100 bucks says the gun was planted
 
2014-05-09 11:27:37 PM

doglover: Oh wait, she was brandishing a gun.

Still not justified. Cops, your job is to DIE if need be to uphold the peace in the community. It's far better for you to take a bullet than to shoot an old lady if she's only threatening you. If she's threatening others, might be okay to take her out. But when you put on that badge, it's a solemn vow to serve and protect THE COMMUNITY, not yourself.


Why should he take a bullet to save the old lady threatening him?

And if something has gone wrong upstairs she very well might threaten others, not just the cop.

jaylectricity: I don't think he's saying he should stand there. He's saying that he should understand the situation. Everybody loves this woman and for good reason. It's a small town, so it's not just some random wielding a gun. He should know she's probably not going to shoot because she's not that type of person.


93--it's quite reasonable to figure that her actions reflect something wrong upstairs.  Thus one's prior knowledge of what she's like is no longer relevant.
 
2014-05-09 11:27:41 PM

doglover: Oh wait, she was brandishing a gun.

Still not justified. Cops, your job is to DIE if need be to uphold the peace in the community. It's far better for you to take a bullet than to shoot an old lady if she's only threatening you. If she's threatening others, might be okay to take her out. But when you put on that badge, it's a solemn vow to serve and protect THE COMMUNITY, not yourself.


You have no idea what you're talking about.
 
2014-05-09 11:29:45 PM
Personally, I blame all those damned furries. Furries make cops nervous, make old folks nervous, everybody has guns, shiat starts happening.
 
2014-05-09 11:29:55 PM

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: 100 bucks says the gun was planted


Seeing as he was called to the scene because she pulled a gun on her son... I'm going to go ahead and take that bet.
 
2014-05-09 11:30:16 PM

doglover: CruiserTwelve: So, I should allow myself to be shot if defending myself might create a controversy?

No.

You should allow yourself to be shot if defending yourself would make you unable to live with yourself later. Can you shoot a 93 year old woman and live with yourself afterwards?

If yes, that's fine, but then you're not cop material. They should weed people like that out of the force. Maybe the Marines need survivors. The police force needs compassionate, non retaliatory people who can suffer abuse verbal and physical without lashing out at those weaker than them and the intellectual capacity to diffuse highly dangerous situations without anyone resorting to violence.

Basically, cops should be like grade school teachers, but with a better left hook.


If a 93 year old is holding a weapon, doesn't respond to commands or drop the weapon when ordered, or reacts by turning toward the officer (as is somewhat natural), I think most police officers can and should be able to live with the shooting. Very few if any officer wants to shoot someone given the toll it can take on you, paperwork and investigation involved, second guessing done by the media or others, and emotional costs especially in a case like this where the suspect/victim is not the usual type encountered.

Now with the living with yourself aspect, that is something everyone has to address in that situation. If for some reason I was in this situation and felt forced to shoot, I could at least take comfort that a 93 year old isn't exactly the worst candidate compared with a young child or parent of children.  I know it is awful to say, but she had a long life and if it someone life is to be cut short, at least a 93 year old had a full productive life before the shooting shortened it potentially months, or a year or two. Emotionally it doesn't work like that, but if they felt threatened in the situation, with some counseling and evaluation most could get through the situation.
 
2014-05-09 11:30:17 PM

change1211: doglover: CruiserTwelve: doglover: Cops, your job is to DIE if need be to uphold the peace in the community.

Seriously?

Yes, seriously.

It's called an ideal. Cops put their ass on the line so non-cops don't have to. And I say non-cops because, and this is important, COPS ARE CIVILIANS. They're not soldiers. They're not SUPPOSED to be soldiers.

If you're not willing to risk your own death to avoid being the guy who shoots down people's great grandmother on her own porch, you aren't cop material. Go get a job in a warehouse. The hours are better, the work easier, and you can still carry a gun because it's a free country.

Wait, what? You're saying that he cops should just stand there and get shot by people pointing guns at them? And somehow this will protect the neighbourhood?

JoieD'Zen: That's his second murder in a very short time. I have faith in the locals to take care of this.

FTA: "The circumstances surrounding Stem's first on-the-job fatal shooting were very different. Siegert said a group of officers had responded to a call in the middle of the night and wound up chasing several suspects through an unlit area before Stem fired. He was cleared by a grand jury."

Sounds like you're a bit biased?


Bless your heart, you're Canadien and haven't lived in the States and most definitely not spent time in the South.
I'm guessing you're mid 20's and idealistic.
 
2014-05-09 11:30:52 PM

doglover: She must have looked like a dog.


You sound like a dog lover.  I can tell these things, I'm that good.
 
2014-05-09 11:30:53 PM
"Texas Rangers are investigating"

This is a Texas cop's worst nightmare come true. Well, that,  and unpaid administrative leave.
 
2014-05-09 11:30:58 PM
FTFA -   Texas Rangers are investigating what led the officer to fire on Golden while responding to a 911 call at her house this week.

So she called 911 and the cop shows up and shoots her.

That's some great police work there Lou.
 
2014-05-09 11:31:03 PM

PreMortem: Newsflash: a lot of cops were bullied when they were little and now have the power of a 45. Just a small wager, but those same cops tortured small animals.

/CSB a cop in the town I lived in broke several laws in arresting me (when I was in cuffs goaded me to rile me up) I found out later that as a teenager, he and another burned an old ladies garage down.

Cops are called pigs for a reason. The good ones a few and far between.


I'll be delighted to hear how your individual experiences can be applied to everyone else in the world in other areas. Should be entertaining to read at least.
 
2014-05-09 11:31:35 PM

change1211: There isn't exactly a huge amount of room wiggle room when someone is brandishing a gun, if you just assume that the person with the gun won't shoot you then you might end up with a hole somewhere it shouldn't be.

That being said the article sucks when it comes to details on the actual shooting.


It's Texas.  I thought brandishing firearms was REQUIRED.
 
2014-05-09 11:32:27 PM

trappedspirit: Stem could not be reached for comment because a number for him could not be found. Siegert said he saw Stem's lawyer this week but didn't know his name,

In a town of 4,500 with police who don't mind shooting old ladiesthis is investigative journalism


Don't you know what happens to nosey people?
cdn5.movieclips.com
 
2014-05-09 11:34:11 PM

Satanic_Hamster: change1211: There isn't exactly a huge amount of room wiggle room when someone is brandishing a gun, if you just assume that the person with the gun won't shoot you then you might end up with a hole somewhere it shouldn't be.

That being said the article sucks when it comes to details on the actual shooting.

It's Texas.  I thought brandishing firearms was REQUIRED.


It's 'recommended.' Not required. We don't have to if we don't want to. I sometimes don't, myself.
 
2014-05-09 11:35:01 PM
Couldn't he have just shot from the hip and shot out her hip?
 
2014-05-09 11:35:58 PM

CruiserTwelve: doglover: If you're not willing to risk your own death to avoid being the guy who shoots down people's great grandmother on her own porch, you aren't cop material.

So, I should allow myself to be shot if defending myself might create a controversy? I'm hoping I'm just misunderstanding you.

Before people start claiming I'm defending the cop in the article, I'm not. If he was wrong, and it certainly looks like he was, he should suffer the consequences.


Let me try and dumb this down for you.

When someone calls 911 requesting help, don't shoot them.
 
2014-05-09 11:37:35 PM

Boo_Guy: change1211: Boo_Guy: Of course since he's a cop no one's even mentioned charging him, or arresting him,  just a firing.

You get fired for dropping your bandaid in someone's salad,  you shouldn't get to walk away from a murder because you're a cop.

/brandished a gun my ass

Were you there? You seem to have a pretty good idea of exactly what happened.

Maybe I was,  maybe I wasn't,  know what I'm saying?
[is0.4sqi.net image 400x500]


Next question is did you go looking for that image or did you stumble upon it while on the Maxim website? Either way very nice.

JoieD'Zen: change1211: doglover: CruiserTwelve: doglover: Cops, your job is to DIE if need be to uphold the peace in the community.

Seriously?

Yes, seriously.

It's called an ideal. Cops put their ass on the line so non-cops don't have to. And I say non-cops because, and this is important, COPS ARE CIVILIANS. They're not soldiers. They're not SUPPOSED to be soldiers.

If you're not willing to risk your own death to avoid being the guy who shoots down people's great grandmother on her own porch, you aren't cop material. Go get a job in a warehouse. The hours are better, the work easier, and you can still carry a gun because it's a free country.

Wait, what? You're saying that he cops should just stand there and get shot by people pointing guns at them? And somehow this will protect the neighbourhood?

JoieD'Zen: That's his second murder in a very short time. I have faith in the locals to take care of this.

FTA: "The circumstances surrounding Stem's first on-the-job fatal shooting were very different. Siegert said a group of officers had responded to a call in the middle of the night and wound up chasing several suspects through an unlit area before Stem fired. He was cleared by a grand jury."

Sounds like you're a bit biased?

Bless your heart, you're Canadien and haven't lived in the States and most definitely not spent time in the South.
I'm guessing you're mid 20's and idealistic.


A) Canadian, not Canadien. I'm not a hockey player.
B) Yep, mid 20's, not idealistic at all.
C) Maple Syrup?
 
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