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(Anchorage Daily News)   If a gun shop leaves a homeless man unattended and finds a rifle missing with $200 left on the counter, tells the police it was stolen but tells the bank it was a sale, who gets sued when the homeless man shoots a random stranger? Show your work   (adn.com) divider line 158
    More: Fail, Fred Meyer, target shooting, paperwork, Alaska Supreme Court, rifles, tort law, homeless, shootings  
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6719 clicks; posted to Main » on 09 May 2014 at 2:38 PM (23 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



158 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-05-09 12:26:35 PM  
No one, because the Second AMendment
 
2014-05-09 12:32:52 PM  
No lawsuit.

BATFE busts them for straw sale. FBI follows up with fraud.

Police taze everyone involved.
 
2014-05-09 12:35:18 PM  
Does this involve trains leaving separate stations at the same time with different weather patterns?
 
2014-05-09 01:10:16 PM  

JoieD'Zen: Does this involve trains leaving separate stations at the same time with different weather patterns?


No fargin' trick questions!
 
2014-05-09 01:36:30 PM  

dr_blasto: No lawsuit.

BATFE busts them for straw sale. FBI follows up with fraud.

Police taze everyone involved.


No straw sale. Everyone involved agrees the guy got the gun from that shop. The question is whether he stole it and left money or the place sold it to him
 
2014-05-09 01:47:06 PM  
Hoping to get some answers, the Kim family is suing the gun shop where Coday got the gun used in the murder


Well, they are looking to get something, but I doubt it's "An$wer$"
 
2014-05-09 02:24:22 PM  
I don't get it. Where were the good guys with the guns to stop the bad guy with the gun?
 
2014-05-09 02:28:54 PM  
optimalhumanmodulation.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-05-09 02:36:12 PM  
NRA answer: Arm the homeless!
 
2014-05-09 02:36:49 PM  
Wait, go back to the part where the homeless guy had $200.


/take the gun, leave the canolli
 
2014-05-09 02:40:34 PM  
BENGHAZI!
 
2014-05-09 02:40:41 PM  

Because People in power are Stupid:


I have never seen that gif before. I love it.
 
2014-05-09 02:41:30 PM  
If the gun costs 100 dollars more than the bullet,  and the total was $110 dollars how much was the gun?


/ I know this....
 
2014-05-09 02:41:47 PM  
I'd never sell a gun to a dude with that mustaches/beard combo - it just reeks evil.
 
2014-05-09 02:41:56 PM  
Sue em all let the jury sort it out. Thought that's how America works.
 
2014-05-09 02:42:36 PM  

cgraves67: Because People in power are Stupid:

I have never seen that gif before. I love it.


can't....stop....watching....it
 
2014-05-09 02:42:47 PM  

Danger Mouse: If the gun costs 100 dollars more than the bullet,  and the total was $110 dollars how much was the gun?


/ I know this....


$105.
 
2014-05-09 02:43:08 PM  
TFA does not make it clear whether the dealer filed a police report or not?
 
2014-05-09 02:43:30 PM  
Seems like it would depend on whether the shop actually reported the gun as stolen or waited until after the shooting to claim that.
 
2014-05-09 02:44:00 PM  
Wow the store owner's story sounds like the kind of bullshiat a 5 year old would come up with.
 
2014-05-09 02:44:19 PM  
That gun was payment for services rendered, and the Cleveland Browns say thanks again for the excellent draft advice.
 
2014-05-09 02:46:07 PM  
img4.wikia.nocookie.net
everyone gets a cavity search no matter what.
 
2014-05-09 02:46:17 PM  
He shot a man in Juneau, just to watch him die?
 
2014-05-09 02:47:01 PM  

Because People in power are Stupid: [optimalhumanmodulation.files.wordpress.com image 209x111]


I need to use that for the next school shooting/office building shooting thread.

/dont get pissed its america, you know its any day now
 
2014-05-09 02:47:05 PM  
This is impossible, gun shop owners have never been known to commit crimes, and actually sell freedom.
 
2014-05-09 02:47:19 PM  
Alaska, huh? Then the perp is tots cray cray.

That's a tough one. The bum failed to legally purchase the gun. So, the shop's owner didn't break any laws. It sounds like the owner reported the incident to the proper authorities. But; why do you leave a customer holding your merchandise, especially something as expensive as a gun, without anybody watching him? Sounds a little fishy to me.
 
2014-05-09 02:47:41 PM  
Farking Common Core.
 
2014-05-09 02:47:42 PM  
FTFA: Two video security systems were in place the day Coday came in, but they didn't document the interaction. Coxe said an employee failed to put in a fresh tape.

Yeah, you've screwed up.  Who leaves a gun shop unattended, with or without someone there?  And the video surveillance happens not to be there?  :-P
 
2014-05-09 02:48:09 PM  

Because People in power are Stupid: [optimalhumanmodulation.files.wordpress.com image 209x111]


Pffft...9mm...
 
2014-05-09 02:48:09 PM  
He shot a man named Simone, just to watch him die?
 
2014-05-09 02:48:21 PM  
Am I the only one thinking this happens (gun left on counter, owner goes out of sight to do paperwork, customer leaves cash and takes off, no surveillance camera video) with some relative frequency?

The issue is that the guy who bought the gun was a lunatic and went and killed someone in short order. The laws are there for a reason. Coxe (the vendor) was not stupid. He was criminally and willfully negligent.
 
2014-05-09 02:48:22 PM  
Really?

"I can't technically sell this to you, but I'll just turn my back for a second, wink, wink" really does count as plausible deniability?
 
2014-05-09 02:48:28 PM  
Eric Holder
 
2014-05-09 02:49:02 PM  

Dear Jerk: He shot a man in Juneau, just to watch him die?


because he was Asian and not as much of a loser as he was. This was a hate crime.
 
2014-05-09 02:49:24 PM  
ts4.mm.bing.net
 
2014-05-09 02:49:49 PM  
Why would a homeless man want a rifle?

They are hard to hide.

It makes no sense.
 
2014-05-09 02:50:46 PM  
Depends. Being homeless is no legal barrier to gun ownership. Was the guy a convicted felon, or had he been involuntarily committed to a loony bin? If so, then I'd say the gun dealer is screwn, because nobody's buying that "uh, the guy took the gun and left the money when my back was turned" story, even if it were true. Which it isn't, because c'mon, please. If the homeless guy could legally own a gun, then the gun dealer's home free, whether he sold him the gun or it was stolen.
 
2014-05-09 02:51:11 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: This is impossible, gun shop owners have never been known to commit crimes, and actually sell freedom.


It's Alaska. They are obligated, by Alaskan law, to give you a gun and $1,000 cash when you move to Alaska.

/ seriously
 
2014-05-09 02:51:18 PM  
Just assume that everybody in Alaska is on the lam.
 
2014-05-09 02:53:12 PM  

Kuta: Am I the only one thinking this happens (gun left on counter, owner goes out of sight to do paperwork, customer leaves cash and takes off, no surveillance camera video) with some relative frequency?

The issue is that the guy who bought the gun was a lunatic and went and killed someone in short order. The laws are there for a reason. Coxe (the vendor) was not stupid. He was criminally and willfully negligent.


But, can anybody prove it? Don't forget; it's Alaska, home of the Tea Party.
 
2014-05-09 02:54:46 PM  

Kuta: Am I the only one thinking this happens (gun left on counter, owner goes out of sight to do paperwork, customer leaves cash and takes off, no surveillance camera video) with some relative frequency?


That...seems unlikely.  In my experience, when the shop employee called the NICS check it was done right in front of me or (in the case of Cabela's) the gun was taken behind a counter with half a dozen other employees with it.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-05-09 02:54:57 PM  
Who gets sued? Everybody, because there is in practice no penalty for filing a stupid lawsuit. Who loses? Trickier question.

Results of the long-running case have been mixed so far. First, a Superior Court judge in Juneau summarily dismissed the Kim family's lawsuit, saying it was barred under the Lawful Commerce in Arms Act. But the Alaska Supreme Court last year reinstated the case, saying the act didn't bar claims if Rayco illegally sold the weapon to Coday.

18 USC 7903(5)(A)(iii)(I). Immunity of a dealer under the Act depends on filing proper paperwork.
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/7903
 
2014-05-09 02:59:05 PM  
Something the plaintiff's lawyer said is bullshiat, I'm thinking.

What Rayco also didn't do was conduct a federally required background check that's supposed to be done before a firearm can be sold. Coday, with a history of drug abuse and erratic behavior, was a fugitive from the Lower 48 who'd arrived in Alaska not long before the 2006 killing.

"He never would have passed a background check," Choate said.


I'm not sure he wouldn't have. They don't check to see if you have outstanding warrants, just whether you're a convicted felon. You can abuse all the drugs and commit as many misdemeanors as you like without losing the ability to buy a gun. You can be bughouse crazy, too, as long as you've never been involuntarily committed.

Probably what happened is old bugnuts TOLD the gun dealer that he couldn't pass a background check, so he sold him the gun and made up the ridiculous "I turned my back" story. But he probably would have passed if he's not a felon. TFA is unclear on that point.
 
2014-05-09 02:59:56 PM  

LazyMedia: Depends. Being homeless is no legal barrier to gun ownership. Was the guy a convicted felon, or had he been involuntarily committed to a loony bin? If so, then I'd say the gun dealer is screwn, because nobody's buying that "uh, the guy took the gun and left the money when my back was turned" story, even if it were true. Which it isn't, because c'mon, please. If the homeless guy could legally own a gun, then the gun dealer's home free, whether he sold him the gun or it was stolen.


FTA:

What Rayco also didn't do was conduct a federally required background check that's supposed to be done before a firearm can be sold. Coday, with a history of drug abuse and erratic behavior, was a fugitive from the Lower 48 who'd arrived in Alaska not long before the 2006 killing.

Plus the security tapes were conveniently turned off, plus he kept the money, plus he claims his normal business practice is to leave a guy with a sleeping bag around his waist unattended with a gun.  This gun shop owner definitely has some liability here.  In my head the conversation went like this, "Can you pass a background check? No, well I'll go to the back for a few minutes you leave $200 on the counter and walk out with the gun"
 
2014-05-09 03:00:01 PM  
Who gets sued?  That's easy.  The gun manufacturer.

i171.photobucket.com
 
2014-05-09 03:00:55 PM  
Uhhhh...the guy with the gluten allergy who saw this shooting go down?

Yeah, that's what I am going with...
 
2014-05-09 03:01:10 PM  

stevarooni: Kuta: Am I the only one thinking this happens (gun left on counter, owner goes out of sight to do paperwork, customer leaves cash and takes off, no surveillance camera video) with some relative frequency?

That...seems unlikely.  In my experience, when the shop employee called the NICS check it was done right in front of me or (in the case of Cabela's) the gun was taken behind a counter with half a dozen other employees with it.


I can't recall ever buying a gun (and I've bought dozens) where there weren't at least two armed employees in view at all times. That's just common-sense protection against armed robbers.
 
2014-05-09 03:01:28 PM  

ArkAngel: dr_blasto: No lawsuit.

BATFE busts them for straw sale. FBI follows up with fraud.

Police taze everyone involved.

No straw sale. Everyone involved agrees the guy got the gun from that shop. The question is whether he stole it and left money or the place sold it to him


How about the part where the shopkeeper left a customer unsupervised in the store, with an unsecured firearm on the counter? I call Criminal Negligence. Even if there were no customers in the store, you do not leave the room with unsecured firearms laying out in plain view, where someone could come in off the street and snatch them.

Either way, the shop owner is going to pay for his indiscretion.
 
2014-05-09 03:03:01 PM  

LazyMedia: I'm not sure he wouldn't have. They don't check to see if you have outstanding warrants,


Depends, he could have been a fugitive who jumped bail between conviction and sentencing, plus it sounds like he had multiple drug arrests.
 
2014-05-09 03:03:49 PM  

Tom_Slick: LazyMedia: Depends. Being homeless is no legal barrier to gun ownership. Was the guy a convicted felon, or had he been involuntarily committed to a loony bin? If so, then I'd say the gun dealer is screwn, because nobody's buying that "uh, the guy took the gun and left the money when my back was turned" story, even if it were true. Which it isn't, because c'mon, please. If the homeless guy could legally own a gun, then the gun dealer's home free, whether he sold him the gun or it was stolen.

FTA:

What Rayco also didn't do was conduct a federally required background check that's supposed to be done before a firearm can be sold. Coday, with a history of drug abuse and erratic behavior, was a fugitive from the Lower 48 who'd arrived in Alaska not long before the 2006 killing.

Plus the security tapes were conveniently turned off, plus he kept the money, plus he claims his normal business practice is to leave a guy with a sleeping bag around his waist unattended with a gun.  This gun shop owner definitely has some liability here.  In my head the conversation went like this, "Can you pass a background check? No, well I'll go to the back for a few minutes you leave $200 on the counter and walk out with the gun"


I would believe that the filing of the $200 given for the rifle as a "sale" would be sufficient to establish culpability.
 
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