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(International Business Times)   Scientists say they can build gamma-ray lasers by mixing antimatter and matter to create a compound called positronium. In related news, who knew Ghostbusters was a documentary?   (ibtimes.co.uk ) divider line 34
    More: Interesting, Ghostbusters, lasers, antimatters, scientists, annihilations, Bell Labs, physical review, Absolute Zero  
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1570 clicks; posted to Geek » on 09 May 2014 at 11:36 AM (1 year ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-09 08:58:01 AM  
Ugh. The shorthand TFA uses for the positron/electron interaction, and that protons and electrons 'orbit around each other' as if they followed gravitational forces, or calling a positron/electron pair an 'atom'... Bleh.

Still, interesting research, and if BECs turn out to be a way to 'conveniently' store antimatter, that opens up a world of possibilities.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-05-09 09:12:33 AM  
The speed that the electrons and positrons spin at in BEC adds up to 1, so that means the positronium is numbered spin-1 because it takes a fraction of a nanosecond longer to annihilate itself.

If you know quantum mechanics, your head just exploded. If you don't know quantum mechanics, your head just exploded.

But if you know quantum mechanics, at least the abstract of the real article will make sense:
Bose-Einstein condensates (BECs) of positronium (Ps) have been of experimental and theoretical interest due to their potential application as the gain medium of a γ-ray laser. Ps BECs are intrinsically spinor due to the presence of ortho-positronium (o-Ps) and para-positronium (p-Ps), whose annihilation lifetimes differ by three orders of magnitude.
 
2014-05-09 11:40:51 AM  
markread.info
 
2014-05-09 11:44:40 AM  
www.toyworldmag.co.uk

Not impressed
 
2014-05-09 11:45:41 AM  
Hm. I think that journalist had not the slightest clue what they were writing about. Now I don't either.
 
2014-05-09 11:50:39 AM  
So it's a positron-electron pair without any neutrons or protons.  Can we just call it eezo and skip the formalities?

i1.ytimg.com
 
2014-05-09 11:53:36 AM  
So, it's a laser that shoots a beam of pure antimatter?
 
2014-05-09 12:03:58 PM  

Stile4aly: So it's a positron-electron pair without any neutrons or protons.  Can we just call it eezo and skip the formalities?

[i1.ytimg.com image 850x531]


Not zero. Mass=energy and vice versa. When electrons and positrons interact, both are annihilated, leaving two smaller photons with metric buttloads of energy. As described, the super-cooled state allows the poistron-electron pair to more or less peacefully co-exist until the spin state is changed. At that point, two photons with enough energy to become gamma radiation move out from the annihilation in opposite directions.

I'm more interested in the idea of storing antimatter in a Bose-Einstein Condensate than a potential gamma-ray laser which zaps both the emitter and the target.

Anyone with a better working knowledge of the math please feel free to correct me.
 
2014-05-09 12:04:33 PM  

Mr. Eugenides: So, it's a laser that shoots a beam of pure antimatter?


Does that mean it doesn't matter?
 
2014-05-09 12:14:58 PM  

Mr. Eugenides: So, it's a laser that shoots a beam of pure antimatter?


Close; it's a laser powered by antimatter.

A laser shoots beams of light, by definition. It sounds like what they're doing is using the positronium to generate the light itself, as positron-electron annihilation generates two photons (light particles) in the high-gamma ray range.

The trick, which they think they've figured out, is controlling when the positronium annihilates.

You could probably term this a "graser": gamma ray amplification, as opposed to a laser (light amplification) or maser (microwave amplification).
 
2014-05-09 12:35:03 PM  

SordidEuphemism: Ugh. The shorthand TFA uses for the positron/electron interaction, and that protons and electrons 'orbit around each other' as if they followed gravitational forces, or calling a positron/electron pair an 'atom'... Bleh.

Still, interesting research, and if BECs turn out to be a way to 'conveniently' store antimatter, that opens up a world of possibilities.


Only if they could find a way to have it passively cooled. Imagine if a large storage facility of the stuff lost power ...
 
2014-05-09 12:35:56 PM  

Stile4aly: So it's a positron-electron pair without any neutrons or protons.  Can we just call it eezo and skip the formalities?


I wonder of they will ever make a 3rd game to finish that trilogy.
 
2014-05-09 12:36:47 PM  
Regardless, don't cross the streams.
 
2014-05-09 12:45:44 PM  

Wenchmaster: Mr. Eugenides: So, it's a laser that shoots a beam of pure antimatter?

Does that mean it doesn't matter?


It's a moo point.
 
2014-05-09 12:46:54 PM  

qorkfiend: Mr. Eugenides: So, it's a laser that shoots a beam of pure antimatter?

Close; it's a laser powered by antimatter.

A laser shoots beams of light, by definition. It sounds like what they're doing is using the positronium to generate the light itself, as positron-electron annihilation generates two photons (light particles) in the high-gamma ray range.

The trick, which they think they've figured out, is controlling when the positronium annihilates.

You could probably term this a "graser": gamma ray amplification, as opposed to a laser (light amplification) or maser (microwave amplification).


It's still a laser. Gamma photons have too short a wavelength to see, but they're still photons.
 
2014-05-09 12:48:07 PM  
So maybe a positronic ray?

img.photobucket.com
 
2014-05-09 01:03:04 PM  
So all they need to do to pull this off is 1. Create a large source of antimatter and 2. Stabilize it into a Bose-Einstein condensate?  No problem.  I'll have it for you by next week.
 
2014-05-09 01:13:58 PM  

Mr. Eugenides: So, it's a laser that shoots a beam of pure antimatter?


Say goodbye to all of this and hello to oblivion.
 
2014-05-09 01:18:13 PM  
I dunno why nobody else thought of this....anti-matter spaceships.  Space is pretty darn close to absolute zero, which provides passive cooling for a backup, and by having the photons shoot out the back, it would create thrust and could potentially get you up to some really good relativistic speeds.
 
2014-05-09 01:21:27 PM  

ZAZ: The speed that the electrons and positrons spin at in BEC adds up to 1, so that means the positronium is numbered spin-1 because it takes a fraction of a nanosecond longer to annihilate itself.

If you know quantum mechanics, your head just exploded. If you don't know quantum mechanics, your head just exploded.

But if you know quantum mechanics, at least the abstract of the real article will make sense:Bose-Einstein condensates (BECs) of positronium (Ps) have been of experimental and theoretical interest due to their potential application as the gain medium of a γ-ray laser. Ps BECs are intrinsically spinor due to the presence of ortho-positronium (o-Ps) and para-positronium (p-Ps), whose annihilation lifetimes differ by three orders of magnitude.


Paging Admiral Ackbar to the courtesy phone.
 
2014-05-09 01:22:14 PM  

dionysusaur: qorkfiend: Mr. Eugenides: So, it's a laser that shoots a beam of pure antimatter?

Close; it's a laser powered by antimatter.

A laser shoots beams of light, by definition. It sounds like what they're doing is using the positronium to generate the light itself, as positron-electron annihilation generates two photons (light particles) in the high-gamma ray range.

The trick, which they think they've figured out, is controlling when the positronium annihilates.

You could probably term this a "graser": gamma ray amplification, as opposed to a laser (light amplification) or maser (microwave amplification).

It's still a laser. Gamma photons have too short a wavelength to see, but they're still photons.


Sure. I didn't suggest that a graser was not a laser, but rather it's a specific type of laser.
 
2014-05-09 01:26:47 PM  
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/l-cheapo-laser-cutter-attachment/​  If you only have $200 to spend, it'll get you a laser cutter.


/shameless plug
 
2014-05-09 01:36:52 PM  
who knew?

www.geocities.ws
 
2014-05-09 01:39:16 PM  

Stile4aly: Mr. Eugenides: So, it's a laser that shoots a beam of pure antimatter?

Say goodbye to all of this and hello to oblivion.


First one to scream gets it.
 
2014-05-09 02:03:21 PM  

shda5582: I dunno why nobody else thought of this....anti-matter spaceships.  Space is pretty darn close to absolute zero, which provides passive cooling for a backup, and by having the photons shoot out the back, it would create thrust and could potentially get you up to some really good relativistic speeds.


Except, if it shoots in both directions, it's zero net propulsion.  And might fry your passengers.

And space isn't absolute zero - it's 2.7 kelvin.  My understanding of BECs is that they need to be less than 1 degree kelvin, which means the total vacuum of space is too hot for them.  So, "pretty darn close" isn't really close enough.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-05-09 02:16:07 PM  
The interior of a cold molecular cloud can drop below 2.7 K, but that has to be a temporary condition.
 
2014-05-09 03:01:32 PM  

ZAZ: Bose-Einstein condensates (BECs) of positronium (Ps) have been of experimental and theoretical interest due to their potential application as the gain medium of a γ-ray laser. Ps BECs are intrinsically spinor due to the presence of ortho-positronium (o-Ps) and para-positronium (p-Ps), whose annihilation lifetimes differ by three orders of magnitude.


I... kind of feel a bit bad that that makes perfect sense to me and my first reaction is to question the actual relative time-scales and mean free path necessary for stimulated emission to occur (since it's mechanically mostly a cascade effect)on practical grounds and second to question the real utility of a self-annihilating laser medium you have to make in a cyclotron.  Admittedly, if we worked out how to aim that shiat and use it in an experiment we'd win at high-energy engineering design forever.

I think this is going to remain purely "theoretical" physics for a while, essentially.... and also that there apparently  is such a thing as knowing too much chemistry.

obenchainr: And space isn't absolute zero - it's 2.7 kelvin.  My understanding of BECs is that they need to be less than 1 degree kelvin, which means the total vacuum of space is too hot for them.  So, "pretty darn close" isn't really close enough.


Depends what part of space you're talking about.  Pressure varies from about 10 millipascal near celestial bodies, through 10E(-6) Torr or so in most of interstellar space, to 10E(-8) Torr in parts of intergalactic space.  Temperature can vary pretty wildly depending where you are, too, from "oh shiat the heat shield just melted" near the stars to 2.76 K in the empirical temperature floor of most of the universe.

Admittedly in practical terms temperature doesn't  mean all that much to a guy in a spaceship once the collision probability drops so low that the heat transfer rates are dwarfed by minor effects within the essentially-self-contained device.  And even if it did the gas in the vicinity of the ship would be heated well above background by your usual T^4 scaling radiation and the ship being hot enough to keep people alive-ish.
 
2014-05-09 05:29:09 PM  
Total protonic reversal!!
 
2014-05-09 08:34:08 PM  
Sliding Carp: Stile4aly: Mr. Eugenides: So, it's a laser that shoots a beam of pure antimatter?

Say goodbye to all of this and hello to oblivion.

First one to scream gets it.


Thank Ghod for you guys - it's nice to see that *someone* got it!

I was starting to lose faith in FARK there for a second!

/("Then it isn't a Laser!")
 
2014-05-10 01:16:59 AM  

Jim_Callahan: ZAZ: Bose-Einstein condensates (BECs) of positronium (Ps) have been of experimental and theoretical interest due to their potential application as the gain medium of a γ-ray laser. Ps BECs are intrinsically spinor due to the presence of ortho-positronium (o-Ps) and para-positronium (p-Ps), whose annihilation lifetimes differ by three orders of magnitude.

I... kind of feel a bit bad that that makes perfect sense to me and my first reaction is to question the actual relative time-scales and mean free path necessary for stimulated emission to occur (since it's mechanically mostly a cascade effect)on practical grounds and second to question the real utility of a self-annihilating laser medium you have to make in a cyclotron.  Admittedly, if we worked out how to aim that shiat and use it in an experiment we'd win at high-energy engineering design forever.

I think this is going to remain purely "theoretical" physics for a while, essentially.... and also that there apparently  is such a thing as knowing too much chemistry.

obenchainr: And space isn't absolute zero - it's 2.7 kelvin.  My understanding of BECs is that they need to be less than 1 degree kelvin, which means the total vacuum of space is too hot for them.  So, "pretty darn close" isn't really close enough.

Depends what part of space you're talking about.  Pressure varies from about 10 millipascal near celestial bodies, through 10E(-6) Torr or so in most of interstellar space, to 10E(-8) Torr in parts of intergalactic space.  Temperature can vary pretty wildly depending where you are, too, from "oh shiat the heat shield just melted" near the stars to 2.76 K in the empirical temperature floor of most of the universe.

Admittedly in practical terms temperature doesn't  mean all that much to a guy in a spaceship once the collision probability drops so low that the heat transfer rates are dwarfed by minor effects within the essentially-self-contained device.  And even if it did the gas in the vicinity of the ship would be heated well above background by your usual T^4 scaling radiation and the ship being hot enough to keep people alive-ish.


I understood about every third sentence. I left a Fark thread a better person (for a change).
 
2014-05-10 07:07:52 AM  

Mr. Eugenides: So, it's a laser that shoots a beam of pure antimatter?


You mean.. you're going to kill him? What's his crime?
 
2014-05-10 07:56:21 AM  

stratagos: Mr. Eugenides: So, it's a laser that shoots a beam of pure antimatter?

You mean.. you're going to kill him? What's his crime?


I thought you liked  him.  He always liked you.
 
2014-05-10 01:43:21 PM  

Jim_Callahan: ZAZ: Bose-Einstein condensates (BECs) of positronium (Ps) have been of experimental and theoretical interest due to their potential application as the gain medium of a γ-ray laser. Ps BECs are intrinsically spinor due to the presence of ortho-positronium (o-Ps) and para-positronium (p-Ps), whose annihilation lifetimes differ by three orders of magnitude.

I... kind of feel a bit bad that that makes perfect sense to me and my first reaction is to question the actual relative time-scales and mean free path necessary for stimulated emission to occur (since it's mechanically mostly a cascade effect)on practical grounds and second to question the real utility of a self-annihilating laser medium you have to make in a cyclotron.  Admittedly, if we worked out how to aim that shiat and use it in an experiment we'd win at high-energy engineering design forever.

I think this is going to remain purely "theoretical" physics for a while, essentially.... and also that there apparently  is such a thing as knowing too much chemistry.

obenchainr: And space isn't absolute zero - it's 2.7 kelvin.  My understanding of BECs is that they need to be less than 1 degree kelvin, which means the total vacuum of space is too hot for them.  So, "pretty darn close" isn't really close enough.

Depends what part of space you're talking about.  Pressure varies from about 10 millipascal near celestial bodies, through 10E(-6) Torr or so in most of interstellar space, to 10E(-8) Torr in parts of intergalactic space.  Temperature can vary pretty wildly depending where you are, too, from "oh shiat the heat shield just melted" near the stars to 2.76 K in the empirical temperature floor of most of the universe.

Admittedly in practical terms temperature doesn't  mean all that much to a guy in a spaceship once the collision probability drops so low that the heat transfer rates are dwarfed by minor effects within the essentially-self-contained device.  And even if it did the gas in the vicinity of the ship ...


You've managed to say virtually nothing of substance in this comment except to give your opinion about how clever you think you are at chemistry. I particularly like the way you imply user obenchainr didn't already realise that temperatures rise above 2.7 degrees when you get near massive balls of nuclear fire.
 
2014-05-10 07:57:33 PM  

Nicholas D. Wolfwood: Sliding Carp: Stile4aly: Mr. Eugenides: So, it's a laser that shoots a beam of pure antimatter?

Say goodbye to all of this and hello to oblivion.

First one to scream gets it.

Thank Ghod for you guys - it's nice to see that *someone* got it!

I was starting to lose faith in FARK there for a second!

/("Then it isn't a Laser!")


These whippersnappers don't appreciate what it was like to be a pre-web nerd.
 
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