Gr00vey was not attacking you for posting the site just saying it was lame and why it was lame. But really Most of clintons "protecting" was thru last minuite executive orders or other not so last min executive orders. Quick quiz ashcroft haters what type of government is it when the ruler dictates policy and there is no open debate or judicial review or vote taken for it??

http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0149/hentoff.php

CLICK ME!!

So what is your point vman?

12-10-01 11:31:55 AM Vman
Gr00vey was not attacking you for posting the site just saying it was lame and why it was lame. But really Most of clintons "protecting" was thru last minuite executive orders or other not so last min executive orders. Quick quiz ashcroft haters what type of government is it when the ruler dictates policy and there is no open debate or judicial review or vote taken for it??

The current one, Vman.

And when did this turn into a Bush vs. Clinton debate?

I have to admit it ... GWB is a fount of misstatements and hilarious quotations -- the guy is just NOT very eloquent as was his silver-tongued [liar] predecessor.

LAtely, I've been pondering both Kennedy and Lincoln,
The parallels between their lives and deaths have got me thinkin'
Just a week before they left this mortal coil we know,
Lincoln was in Maryland and Jack was in Monroe...


Thank you.
Enjoy the veal.

www.misterbunko.com

Hey Gr00vey--

Better watch out, dude! GWB and the Ashman will be Black Bagging your edifice real soon and they'll take away your stash!

OH NO!!!

WorldCitizen--

"Quick quiz ashcroft haters what type of government is it when the ruler dictates policy and there is no open debate or judicial review or vote taken for it??"

At least Clinton was elected--Ashcroft is dictating policy (see Oregon, holding people for indefinite amounts of time with no charges) and was never elected, but appointed.

*******************************************

So what? Big deal. Janet Reno (or is it Rhino?) was never elected either. Nor was any of Clinton's Cabinet members. Nor were any of his judicial appointments. I say: SO WHAT!

It's a moot point you're trying to make, pal
;^)

har har, that is pretty funny warren...

"Henchman... Nice analogy... Your ability to come up with good analogies seems to only be eclipsed by your ability dodge the quesiton. You are soo quick to tear down the people who have to make the tough decisions, I was hoping you would be tough enough to come up with your own. Please stick your head out revise just one of his policys and state it for open debate."

How about this: The policy of wholesale arresting of arab-looking Americans should be replaced with one that looks at behavior rather than ethnic origin as an indicator of suspected terrorism. How about changing the policy of not allowing detainees access to lawyers and/or their families? What's wrong with being able to notify counsel or your loved ones that you've been put behind bars?

"Did you vote? Have you ever written your congressmen? Can you even name your states senators or you local representitive without having to look it up?"

Yes and yes. Harry Wiggins helped keep a local university from knocking down my house. Have you ever voted? Ever voted non-republican?

"Did you feel the same way about Reno?"

Reno often made me queasy when it came to handling holed-up wackos with guns, actually. She also let congress appoint independent counsels against her boss. I doubt Ashcroft will do the same. Oh, and Ashcroft has already started denying the justice department access to documents. Enjoy.

"Oh and it is pretty easy to sound like a fool when your everyword is recorded, how many times today have you already flubbed a sentence??"

None that I know of, but, of course, it's not part of my JOB to get in front of cameras and microphones and sound intelligent. I guess it isn't Bush's, either...

I find it funny that what is supposed to be something fun, entertaining, and educational, such as this quiz, turns into a forum for people to start slamming politics, the government, and the people in it. You'd think that by now, everyone would understand that some people believe one way, and other people believe differently from them. you're not going to change someone else's point of view.. there are only a few conclusions that this discussion will come to... which happens every time.

Some people like Ashcroft, some people don't. Some people support him in what he's doing, some people don't. does anyone in here really CARE what anyone else's opinion is? no.. so move on people.. move on.

Word citizen Of course ashcroft was nominated the position is decided by nomination if he was that bad do you think he would have gotten approval from congress? (poor support but hell some of the democrats voted approvingly for him) (Remeber first not all republicans vote party line and one even swapped sides after he was approved.
If the democrats had anything valuable in terms of a platform or ideas, they would have been able to defeat Bush, hell they had economy (Well it was sliding during the election from the previous mismanegment but it was still good) and one of the most publically approved presidents other then regan on their side (oh wait even gore thought Clinton sucked that is why he refused to let him campaign for him)

Fithcolum: I like your what you would do post. It could have been more vauge, but only a litte. I was hoping you could come up with specififc operation on what you would do Ashcroft could say he is doing the same thing. Perhaps you can respond with some more generalizations (it is easier to defend ideal and leave out specifics)

I find it interesting that the only way that Republicans can defend Bush (and Ashcroft) is by slamming Clinton. They don't defend the policies or statements of Bush or Ashcroft, just bring up more of the same Clinton-bashing... and usually right after they tell the Democrats to stop living in the past and forget the election.

I say simply, Ashcroft is doing his best to make McCarthy look like an amateur and Bush neither is capable of leading nor has any decision he's made since taking office been in the best interest of the country rather than in his own best interest. I did vote against Bush and I will proudly do so again. And if you disagree with my statements about Bush or Ashcroft, I challenge you to defend their actions without stopping to bash Clinton as a distraction.

Out of 14 questions, you got 10 correct for a percent score of 71.

That's not so bad. It's not like Ashcroft would ever say "I have in my hand a list..."

Tiezane

Thank you for the slap on the weenie.

Did you hear that: Gr00vey; WorldCitizen; Henchman; FifthColumn; Vman et. al.?
It's time for all of us to be happy, stop biatching and quarreling. Let's all hold hands now and ...

Kumbia M'Lord, kumbia ...

Uhm, warren, you're the one whose panties are in a knot....... I just posted my opinion. And you apparently didn't agree with it, but couldn't back up your arguement with any facts.. Stop being a whiney little biotch, please?
;)

Oh, BTW, I don't trust ashcroft at all - I wouldn't be too surprised if years from now we get a better picture of what really is going on - kinda like Iran / Contra... I mean we (US CIA) TRAINED bin laden, doesn't that make the US/CIA (my gov't) aids to terrorism? Where does one draw the line?

You could also compare the statements of Asscroft and McCarthy with Stalin's sidekicks Zhdanov or Vyshinskii and get similar results.

Hastur.. With Joy I will. Okay this first one is a little of both but revoking short sighted executive orders of his predecessor that would have cost corperations millions if not billions but had little effect on workers actual health.

on to other things
China incident... I think he handled that very well. We are on almost as good terms with China as we were when we gave them plans for nukes (oops I did it again sorry)

I thought the tax cut was a good thing we needed it, granted we are going to have some controlled deficits for a few years but it outta work out fine. If you disagree please send me your $300 check

I think he has brouhgt a greater measure of bipartizenship to the political discourse.

I belive he is handleing the present crisis admirably.
I also belive the country needs a good missle defense system if only for the synergys that would occur from further development of tracking methods and increased accuracy of munitions (so we can more effectively target civilians in case Rei is lurkin ;))

People like you blasted him for his limited experience in forign affairs but he has managed to get international co-operation against alquida very quickly. He is doing a fine job IMHO

I can list more but that is enough for now

Hey Gr00vey--

My "Kumbia" post was directed to Tiezane and was meant to be funny. Evidently, the humor/sarcasm was wasted on you. Oh well.


What's this??? You posted your "opinion?" Why, you can't do that here on Fark.com! You MUST express ALL opinion backed up with F-A-C-T! Didn't you know that???
It's one of the damned rules.



;^0

So henchman what behaviors would you base it on.. Fortunately to prove me wrong you have the benifit of hindsight whereas Ashcroft will have to have precognition but seriously what behaviors would you select for that would have cought the terrorists??

har har, very clever Warren....

Bunch of armchair politican faggots in here.

"I thought the tax cut was a good thing we needed it, granted we are going to have some controlled deficits for a few years but it outta work out fine. If you disagree please send me your $300 check."

That wasn't a tax cut. That was an advance on your tax return in 2002. Enjoy your bait-and-switch.

"what behaviors would you select for that would have cought the terrorists??"

Purchases of one-way plane tickets, contact with known terrorist organizations, etc. Of course, this would require more work than just rounding people up with olive skin and funny accents. It would require hiring intelligence agents who aren't white-bread english-only-speakers, which I doubt Ashcroft would advocate. Reliance on electronic intel is only one half of the battle, but if it makes him feel better...

"...Fortunately to prove me wrong you have the benifit of hindsight..."

Or history. Just ask the Japanese how well internment worked in WWII.

I'm suprised it took this long to draw parallels. However, the situations surrounding the 2 are a bit different.

I understand how the tax cut works. There is a sizable tax cut in there not just the rebate check. (Wich is for overpayment considering the reduction in taxes) Moot point but I did not receive mine and just had them cancell it out so I can do my taxes as normal next year.

Good you have identified two commonalities between you and ashcroft 12 more and I can build a quiz. we do have middle eastern intelligence sources perhaps if we have the public trials (like most ashcroft bashers oppose)you and everyone else can know who they are

Number of internal terrorist acts on america via japanese sources... 0 yes it was wrong very wrong but do not say it was ineffective

Change oppose in the second to support

Ooooohh! Look at me! I'm a crazy whining whore! Baahhhhhhh!! People hate me because I complain about my government! Wahhhhhhh!!

"Number of internal terrorist acts on america via japanese sources... 0 yes it was wrong very wrong but do not say it was ineffective."

That's about as logical as me saying that my car keys prevent tiger attacks merely because I've never been attacked by a tiger.

"...we do have middle eastern intelligence sources..."

Really? The CIA employs arab-speaking arab-looking operatives? Since when? This is why the gov't complains that it's so hard to infiltrate these groups; they don't HAVE any AGENTS that can do so. Joe Caucasian isn't going to make it very far in the circles they want intelligence on.

"Out of 14 questions, you got [blank space here] correct for a percent score of 0."

Whew, that was tough. It took a couple of tries to get every one wrong.

Inspired idea, though, comparing these two twisted farks through a quiz format. The similarity between them had occured to me after last week's jaw-dropper:

"To those ... who scare peace-loving people with phantoms of lost liberty, my message is this: your tactics only aid terrorists, for they erode our national unity and diminish our resolve. They give ammunition to America's enemies and pause to America's friends"-- Ashcroft

I would submit that the sentiment behind this quote is more frightening than anything ever attributed to McCarthy. Especially when it is noted that the quote seems not the result of ill-advised ad-libbing on the part of the Attorney General, but entirely scripted, and in perfect lock-step with these other chestnuts of recent vintage:

"It is therefore urgent that all Americans be quiet, stop asking questions, accept the orders of authorities, and let us get on with the important work of defending liberty, so that America can continue to be a beacon of freedom to all the world."--Donald Rumsfeld

"Now is not the time for such divisive, destructive things as dialogue and debate. Now is not the time for, 'My opinion is just as valid as yours,' and 'What are my country's leaders doing and why?' and 'I have a question, Mr. President.' Now is the time for one thing and one thing only: The defense of the American democratic ideal. Any and all who disagree with this directive, or who have different ideas about how it should be accomplished, should learn to shut their mouths."--John McCain

"...all Americans -- not just outspoken talk-show hosts like Bill Maher -- must watch what they say. Now more than ever, if we want to protect democracy for future generations, it is vital that nobody speak out about the issues of the day. We must all do our patriotic duty to protect our country's great ideals and we have to be careful about what opinions we express if we are to defend our Constitution, a sacred document behind which all Americans must stand united as one." --Ari Fleischer

The parallels to the way the Reichstag's burning was parlayed into carte blanche for the Nazis to enact their agenda unhindered are not even particularly subtle.

amidst all this gall being thrown back and forth, does anybody consider that McCarthy was right, and the State Department really was filthy with communists and (in some cases) Soviet moles? We generally like to practice tolerance in America (political and otherwise) but those whose political goals are hostile to the ambitions and well being of the United States have no reason to be at its helm.

-just a little divergent thought.

The constitution kind of looks better with a little feces for garnish.

I still have not heard a good reason why gun purchase\registration forms cannot be held and checked by the FBI in light of Sept 11. Apparently some rights are more sacred than others.

So, I still haven't heard a good answer yet. Since you guys are so smart and love to biatch about Ashcroft, the Republicans, George Bush, and pissing on the Constitution, please outline how you would deal with the Al Qaeda threat here in America?

I bet you're the same schmucks who biatched about why the CIA didn't prevent 9/11 in the first place, and now you're the biatching that we're doing too much. Which is it, you can't have both?

Also, where were you when Clinton's cronies were pissing on the Constitution, and when he was selling our military and nuclear secrets to the Chinese?

lol i thought that said "John Ashcroft or Jenny McCarthy"

hmm...

Daz - ...and when he was selling our military and nuclear secrets to the Chinese?

Ya know, Rush Limbaugh couldn't provide PROOF of this accusation either. Can you?

Daz "...and when he was selling our military and nuclear secrets to the Chinese?"

I guess the best way to punish the Chinese for that gross breach of etiquette (forget Tianamen Square-wholesale slaughter of your population isn't a crime, Bush the Elder was quick to let us know) would be to stop sending manufacturing jobs over there. Right?
Oops, my bad. Duhbya's Wall Street buddies like using slave labor, which is cheaper than using domestic American labor, so just forget I even suggested it.

WorldCitizen-

Probably cause he was trying to get re-elected. His motives were foul and self seeking, but his alleged concerns were legitmate. His initial claim was that he had a list of State Department employees who were all communists of some kind and history has vindicated him (Alger Hiss anybody?). The alleged list never materialized, but there was a signifiant number of far lefties (left over from that crippled soviet dick limpet and his envoy missions to Stalin's arse). Even a wicked man can be right.

All you lefty crybabies better call a wahhhhhmbulance. And just keep forgetting how many rights FDR sh i t on during WWII.

Don't like things as they are? Dial 1-800-EMI-GRAT. And then do so with all speed.

"Morons.org" So damned appropriate for those who use it.

13 out of 14

Unfortunately this was a bit too easy. For one thing, the country was not at war during McCarthy's era (except the Cold War), so most references to wartime are Ashcroft's. Secondly, McCarthy didn't hold a position of power in the executive administration, he was just a Senator trying to leverage power using paranoia and shame. So any comments talking about "what we have done" or indicating a use of some power are Ashcrofts, anything indicating what "I" have or what "we should do" are McCarthy's.

11/14 not bad considering I'm not old enough to remember McCarthy, haven't a clue who Ashcroft is, am not even American... and if that doesn't wind up some xenophobe somewhere I'll be surprised....