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(NPR)   Atmospheric carbon dioxide concentration is rising. That's bad. Crops in those conditions grow faster and yield 10% more. That's good. The food from those crops is 10% less nutritious. Meh, how much worse could Doritos get, anyway?   (npr.org ) divider line
    More: Interesting, carbon dioxide, atmospheric carbon dioxide, Doritos, concentrations, child mortality, crops, peas, U.S. Department of Agriculture  
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525 clicks; posted to Geek » on 08 May 2014 at 1:56 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



47 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-05-08 12:27:44 PM  
DRTFA, but I wonder if the soil nutrients deplete differently too. But overall, less people is better for the planet anyways.
 
2014-05-08 01:30:03 PM  

OregonVet: DRTFA, but I wonder if the soil nutrients deplete differently too. But overall, less people is better for the planet anyways.


DRTFA either, but higher yields take more out of the soil, so if the stuff isn't there in the soil, you'll have problems.

Also doesn't take into account shifting rainfall patterns might cause a disruption in food production that will dwarf any increased yields.

But... it could also open up some previously unviable cropland...

It's not a simple problem, to say the least.
 
2014-05-08 01:59:53 PM  
The crops contain potassium benzoate.

img.fark.net

/Getting surprising mileage with this one lately.
 
2014-05-08 02:07:52 PM  
Most Americans could use a 10 percent calorie cut.
 
2014-05-08 02:08:10 PM  

hstein3: The crops contain potassium benzoate.


The Doritos contain disodium inosinate.
 
2014-05-08 02:12:13 PM  
That was a long way to go for that lame headline ending.
 
2014-05-08 02:13:01 PM  
We could probably fix that with some genetic modifications.
 
2014-05-08 02:14:20 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Most Americans could use a 10 percent calorie cut.


It's not a 10 % calorie cut, but in nutrients like iron, zinc and proteins.  Therefore, you will eat 10% more food and calories in order to compensate.

It's bad.
 
2014-05-08 02:15:04 PM  
They tested crops that have some of the lowest nutritional value anyway. Let's look at vegetable and orchard crops.
 
2014-05-08 02:18:54 PM  
Excessive heat more than cancels out any gains from CO2.
Current corn crops keel over and die exposed to sustained temperatures of 112 degrees or higher.
We would have to shift food production significantly north to see any net benefit.
 
2014-05-08 02:20:44 PM  

Cubicle Jockey: Excessive heat more than cancels out any gains from CO2.
Current corn crops keel over and die exposed to sustained temperatures of 112 degrees or higher.
We would have to shift food production significantly north to see any net benefit.


We could probably fix that with some genetic modifications.
 
2014-05-08 02:21:14 PM  

Mantour: HotIgneous Intruder: Most Americans could use a 10 percent calorie cut.

It's not a 10 % calorie cut, but in nutrients like iron, zinc and proteins.  Therefore, you will eat 10% more food and calories in order to compensate.

It's bad.


Nobody "compensates" for getting lower minerals and proteins from the plants they eat by eating more of them.

img.izifunny.com
 
2014-05-08 02:23:27 PM  

Cubicle Jockey: Current corn crops keel over and die exposed to sustained temperatures of 112 degrees or higher.


Sure...corn that was bred to be grown in Canada. Corn bred for hot climates? Not so much.
 
2014-05-08 02:31:54 PM  

Mantour: HotIgneous Intruder: Most Americans could use a 10 percent calorie cut.

It's not a 10 % calorie cut, but in nutrients like iron, zinc and proteins.  Therefore, you will eat 10% more food and calories in order to compensate.

It's bad.


Meh, most of those things I get from my Zone bars anyway.

/Dark Chocolate Almond is awesome, way better than most candy bars
 
2014-05-08 02:32:45 PM  
Sooo...we're breaking even on the crops, then?
 
2014-05-08 02:33:58 PM  

Cubicle Jockey: Excessive heat more than cancels out any gains from CO2.
Current corn crops keel over and die exposed to sustained temperatures of 112 degrees or higher.
We would have to shift food production significantly north to see any net benefit.


Well.  Looks like it's finally time to annex Canada.
 
2014-05-08 02:35:48 PM  
I don't want to make anyone go read the article, but what is important is, "what does this mean for marijuana potency?"
 
2014-05-08 02:45:07 PM  

OregonVet: DRTFA, but I wonder if the soil nutrients deplete differently too. But overall, less people is better for the planet anyways.


And with all those dead people, the soil will be replenished!

Monsanto presents Soylent Green.
 
2014-05-08 02:45:17 PM  

Mantour: It's not a 10 % calorie cut, but in nutrients like iron, zinc and proteins. Therefore, you will eat 10% more food and calories in order to compensate.


I know every time vitamins get brought up, the farkers with GEDs in medicine start calling them snake oil, but really, a high-quality multi probably isn't a bad idea at the rate our crops are being depleted of nutrients.
 
2014-05-08 02:47:57 PM  

Stone Meadow: Mantour: HotIgneous Intruder: Most Americans could use a 10 percent calorie cut.

It's not a 10 % calorie cut, but in nutrients like iron, zinc and proteins.  Therefore, you will eat 10% more food and calories in order to compensate.

It's bad.

Nobody "compensates" for getting lower minerals and proteins from the plants they eat by eating more of them.

[img.izifunny.com image 640x454]


Human blood is rich in iron and protein.
 
2014-05-08 04:09:54 PM  

Mad_Radhu: Mantour: HotIgneous Intruder: Most Americans could use a 10 percent calorie cut.

It's not a 10 % calorie cut, but in nutrients like iron, zinc and proteins.  Therefore, you will eat 10% more food and calories in order to compensate.

It's bad.

Meh, most of those things I get from my Zone bars anyway.

/Dark Chocolate Almond is awesome, way better than most candy bars


Out of curiosity: how much sugar in one of those?

/and did you ever drive that bus again after the incident with the nun?
 
2014-05-08 04:10:12 PM  

Saiga410: Cubicle Jockey: Excessive heat more than cancels out any gains from CO2.
Current corn crops keel over and die exposed to sustained temperatures of 112 degrees or higher.
We would have to shift food production significantly north to see any net benefit.

We could probably fix that with some genetic modifications.


Probably.

Which is one of my main reasons for supporting university based GMO research.

Depending on how quickly climate change affects crops, we might not have the time to use traditional breeding techniques to compensate.
 
2014-05-08 04:53:10 PM  
A long time ago I read an experiment about this, cant recall the exact details. I do remember they also found that the natural amount of poisons and toxins all plants produce (to ward away insects, fungus etc) were NOT increased at all. So while the plant may be twice as big, its tissue had half the chemicals the plants used to ward off being eaten by bugs. Result - bugs ate far more and ate it it far faster.
 
2014-05-08 04:53:17 PM  

Stone Meadow: Sure...corn that was bred to be grown in Canada. Corn bred for hot climates? Not so much.



Corn is already a hot climate C4 plant with its origin in subtropical environments.
Its actually considered a cold-sensitive plant,

It still starts dying at 112.
 
2014-05-08 04:59:44 PM  
In general, the experiments show that crops grow faster when there's more carbon dioxide, and yields are often 10 percent higher, compared with plants in normal atmosphere.
But Myers and his colleagues took a closer look, examining not just the quantity of the harvest, but also its quality.
"What we found were 5 to 10 percent reductions in nutrients like iron, zinc and protein,"

so there will be a slight benefit? (+10%-5to10%=+0to5%)

Iron is pretty common and I can buy zinc at the chemists.

Any excuse to eat more animal protein is fine by me too.

This sounds like not so much of an issue.
 
2014-05-08 05:44:30 PM  

SevenizGud: Increased CO2 is already causing calamitous crop failure worldwide.

If this keeps going, the ENTIRE WORLD WILL STARVE. Just look at how much this increased CO2 has ALREADY caused crops to decline:

[economistsview.typepad.com image 425x425]
Oh wait....



people.virginia.edu

Why do you have to argue dishonestly if your point has any validity?
 
2014-05-08 07:22:22 PM  

Empty Matchbook: Mad_Radhu: Mantour: HotIgneous Intruder: Most Americans could use a 10 percent calorie cut.

It's not a 10 % calorie cut, but in nutrients like iron, zinc and proteins.  Therefore, you will eat 10% more food and calories in order to compensate.

It's bad.

Meh, most of those things I get from my Zone bars anyway.

/Dark Chocolate Almond is awesome, way better than most candy bars

Out of curiosity: how much sugar in one of those?

/and did you ever drive that bus again after the incident with the nun?


13g according to the package,

/And yeah, the incident with the nun hit me hard.
 
2014-05-08 07:31:48 PM  
Yeah, I'm sure the nutrient count had nothing to do with the incredibly serious soil leaching problem that no one outside farmers even seems to be aware of. What with that and the water crisis that no one cares about, I don't think we're going to have to worry about how our food's grown before too long.
 
2014-05-08 07:34:22 PM  

Empty Matchbook: Mad_Radhu: Mantour: HotIgneous Intruder: Most Americans could use a 10 percent calorie cut.

It's not a 10 % calorie cut, but in nutrients like iron, zinc and proteins.  Therefore, you will eat 10% more food and calories in order to compensate.

It's bad.

Meh, most of those things I get from my Zone bars anyway.

/Dark Chocolate Almond is awesome, way better than most candy bars

Out of curiosity: how much sugar in one of those?

/and did you ever drive that bus again after the incident with the nun?


If you scroll by fast you can read

"Human blood is rich in iron and protein."

and then

"how much sugar is in one of those."

/for Americans, a lot
 
2014-05-08 08:29:54 PM  

Mantour: HotIgneous Intruder: Most Americans could use a 10 percent calorie cut.

It's not a 10 % calorie cut, but in nutrients like iron, zinc and proteins.  Therefore, you will eat 10% more food and calories in order to compensate.

It's bad.


Oh jeebus mahoney.
Can't you autistics just let any joke at all ride?

Durrrhhh.
 
2014-05-08 08:39:16 PM  

Damnhippyfreak: SevenizGud: Increased CO2 is already causing calamitous crop failure worldwide.

If this keeps going, the ENTIRE WORLD WILL STARVE. Just look at how much this increased CO2 has ALREADY caused crops to decline:

[economistsview.typepad.com image 425x425]
Oh wait....


[people.virginia.edu image 500x75]

Why do you have to argue dishonestly if your point has any validity?


Oh jeezuz christos, don't you have any other cartoons left to watch?
Same onld thing, thread after farking thread.
Strawman, strawman, BAWK!
Like a parrot.
 
2014-05-08 08:43:54 PM  

HotIgneous Intruder: Damnhippyfreak: SevenizGud: Increased CO2 is already causing calamitous crop failure worldwide.

If this keeps going, the ENTIRE WORLD WILL STARVE. Just look at how much this increased CO2 has ALREADY caused crops to decline:

[economistsview.typepad.com image 425x425]
Oh wait....


[people.virginia.edu image 500x75]

Why do you have to argue dishonestly if your point has any validity?

Oh jeezuz christos, don't you have any other cartoons left to watch?
Same onld thing, thread after farking thread.
Strawman, strawman, BAWK!
Like a parrot.



I wish it was a rare fallacy in these threads (and by that poster in particular). However, this isn't the case.

What you should be asking is whether it's worse to correct mistakes over and over again, or to make mistakes over and over again.
 
2014-05-08 08:55:13 PM  

SevenizGud: Increased CO2 is already causing calamitous crop failure worldwide.

If this keeps going, the ENTIRE WORLD WILL STARVE. Just look at how much this increased CO2 has ALREADY caused crops to decline:


Oh wait....


static4.businessinsider.com
 
2014-05-08 10:07:46 PM  
But does it come with a free Frogurt?  With my own choice of topping?
 
2014-05-08 10:20:14 PM  
And the standard cycle starts again. The back and forth between the vested interests. Who will win this time? Will it be nobody the same as last time?

Let`s all watch this weeks episode of `Climate Soap`

This week sponsored by `Frogurt - top it your way`

(not made with real frogs)
 
2014-05-08 10:45:57 PM  

Mad_Radhu: Empty Matchbook: Mad_Radhu: Mantour: HotIgneous Intruder: Most Americans could use a 10 percent calorie cut.

It's not a 10 % calorie cut, but in nutrients like iron, zinc and proteins.  Therefore, you will eat 10% more food and calories in order to compensate.

It's bad.

Meh, most of those things I get from my Zone bars anyway.

/Dark Chocolate Almond is awesome, way better than most candy bars

Out of curiosity: how much sugar in one of those?

/and did you ever drive that bus again after the incident with the nun?

13g according to the package,

/And yeah, the incident with the nun hit me hard.


Not bad at all!

Certainly better than Cliff "More Sugar Than a Snickers" Bars.

/sure seemed like it
//I do miss the acid shooting
 
2014-05-08 11:42:13 PM  

Metaluna Mutant: A long time ago I read an experiment about this, cant recall the exact details. I do remember they also found that the natural amount of poisons and toxins all plants produce (to ward away insects, fungus etc) were NOT increased at all. So while the plant may be twice as big, its tissue had half the chemicals the plants used to ward off being eaten by bugs. Result - bugs ate far more and ate it it far faster.


Ah, but I am sure Monsanto can come up with a solution for that.
 
2014-05-09 01:03:43 AM  
www.threadbombing.com
 
2014-05-09 05:27:27 AM  

sendtodave: Cubicle Jockey: Excessive heat more than cancels out any gains from CO2.
Current corn crops keel over and die exposed to sustained temperatures of 112 degrees or higher.
We would have to shift food production significantly north to see any net benefit.

Well.  Looks like it's finally time to annex Canada.


I heard that 97% of the English speaking population wants us to and the French Canadians are treating them badly.
 
2014-05-09 05:32:01 AM  
This article is the preamble to a grant application.

They saw a 5-10% decrease in iron and zinc at over 500ppm CO2, so please give us money to engineer crops to counteract this to avoid the dead babies. The end.
 
2014-05-09 08:55:43 AM  

sendtodave: Cubicle Jockey: Excessive heat more than cancels out any gains from CO2.
Current corn crops keel over and die exposed to sustained temperatures of 112 degrees or higher.
We would have to shift food production significantly north to see any net benefit.

Well.  Looks like it's finally time to annex Canada.


You don't want Canada.

Its full of RAPEseed
 
2014-05-09 09:55:45 AM  

OregonVet: DRTFA, but I wonder if the soil nutrients deplete differently too. But overall, less people is better for the planet anyways.


and you still haven't killed yourself? hypocrite...
 
2014-05-09 10:13:03 AM  

hstein3: The crops contain potassium benzoate.

[img.fark.net image 480x360]

/Getting surprising mileage with this one lately.


Can I go now?
 
2014-05-09 10:30:31 AM  

Damnhippyfreak: Why do you have to argue dishonestly if your point has any validity?


At least he posted a different graph this time.

Gotta give credit where credit is due!
 
2014-05-09 11:47:13 AM  
The reason that the crops are 10% less nutritious is the fact they didn't adjust the feeding schedule to make up for the increase in plant metabolism caused by the uptick in co2 exchange.

Easily fixed.
 
2014-05-09 12:33:11 PM  
....makes some sense. Higher CO2 levels help production of carbohydrates and hydrocarbons by removing the demand bottleneck at the CO2 input; but doesn't do much about the soluble trace elements needed for other structures.
 
2014-05-09 06:08:46 PM  

abb3w: ....makes some sense. Higher CO2 levels help production of carbohydrates and hydrocarbons by removing the demand bottleneck at the CO2 input; but doesn't do much about the soluble trace elements needed for other structures.


Yep, that's how I'm seeing it.  Plants trying to 'fix' CO2 tend to get stopped up by O2; which it then has to use other metabolic paths to clear up and 'get back to business'.  This costs energy.  Increase CO2 concentration and it doesn't need to do this anywhere near as much.  Growth rates will increase until that's no longer the chokepoint.

Oddly enough, C4 plants might not compete as well against C3 plants because in an environment with higher concentrations of CO2 the adaptations to better collect CO2 are not as necessary.

Animatronik: They saw a 5-10% decrease in iron and zinc at over 500ppm CO2, so please give us money to engineer crops to counteract this to avoid the dead babies. The end.


The funny thing is that they're already working on this because there are people in the current situation that are suffering from said shortages.

Cubicle Jockey: Corn is already a hot climate C4 plant with its origin in subtropical environments.


Yeah, this is true.  I went to high school in Nebraska.  Science class covered corn pretty extensively in the plant biology section.  It has  extensive biological systems to enable it to survive, even thrive in the heat.  You practically have to get into the Cactuses in order to see more water retention/heat tolerance.  For example, Corn will close it's stoma and shut down respiration if it isn't getting enough water.  Costs it photosynthesis, but conserves water.

Cubicle Jockey: Excessive heat more than cancels out any gains from CO2.
Current corn crops keel over and die exposed to sustained temperatures of 112 degrees or higher.
We would have to shift food production significantly north to see any net benefit.


If it kills corn, there's not many grain type crops left...  I'd hate to see Nebraska turned into a desert.  Corn is good at surviving the heat as long as it has enough water.

There's lots of potential cropland up north if it was only a bit warmer...  You might shift corn production up to the Dakotas

/doesn't like global warming
//but doesn't see a way to prevent it, so we have to cope.
 
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