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(Telegraph)   China setting up prison camps along border with North Korea so fleeing refugees will have somewhere that feels like home when their country collapses - and which China believes will happens sooner rather than later   (telegraph.co.uk ) divider line 44
    More: Interesting, North Koreans, Muammar Gaddafi  
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1689 clicks; posted to Politics » on 08 May 2014 at 4:27 PM (1 year ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-08 04:30:12 PM  
Happy camps!
 
2014-05-08 04:32:09 PM  
China's in the best position to know, and if they think the chances that it'll actually happen are good enough that they're making preparations, then it'll probably happen.
 
2014-05-08 04:33:45 PM  
If Best Korea implodes they may just shoot off their nukes just for the hell of it.
 
2014-05-08 04:35:22 PM  
Just like the Tea Party, North Korea is collapsing.

The similarities seemingly never end.
 
2014-05-08 04:35:50 PM  
When Best Korea fails, the big question is will they reunite with South Korea, like Germany did, or will China get to install a loyal puppet government? Seems like China is in a better position to take advantage of the situation.
 
2014-05-08 04:35:53 PM  
I think its like the FEMA camps we built int he America SW (yes we actually DID build those-under Bush- and gave a no-bid contract to Halliburton to do it)

Better to have them and not need them than to need them and not have them.

China is terrified of what happens when NK collapses because it will happen on their front porch
 
2014-05-08 04:37:28 PM  
The worst Chinese prison camp is still probably much better than any North Korean prison, or even regular daily life for most North Koreans. At least they'll probably get three solid meals a day. They might even get meat!
 
2014-05-08 04:37:39 PM  
Or else escaping prisoners will have nowhere to go but North Korea.
 
2014-05-08 04:41:20 PM  
I disagree with China on many things but this once i have to agree with them.   That said i would think more would go south to freedom rather than north to China.
 
2014-05-08 04:42:44 PM  

EngineerAU: When Best Korea fails, the big question is will they reunite with South Korea, like Germany did, or will China get to install a loyal puppet government? Seems like China is in a better position to take advantage of the situation.


Thinking about it, China may be better off giving NK to SK.  Let SK spend the hundreds of billions to uplift NK's infrastructure, sell SK materials and whatnot, nobody is in any better position to deliver.  It is not like a NK puppet would have the cash to spend.
 
2014-05-08 04:45:05 PM  

bootman: EngineerAU: When Best Korea fails, the big question is will they reunite with South Korea, like Germany did, or will China get to install a loyal puppet government? Seems like China is in a better position to take advantage of the situation.

Thinking about it, China may be better off giving NK to SK.  Let SK spend the hundreds of billions to uplift NK's infrastructure, sell SK materials and whatnot, nobody is in any better position to deliver.  It is not like a NK puppet would have the cash to spend.


The main issue China has with a united Korea is that there would then be American troops on it's border.  All other issues are secondary to them.
 
2014-05-08 04:46:03 PM  

grimlock1972: I disagree with China on many things but this once i have to agree with them.   That said i would think more would go south to freedom rather than north to China.


Most would do that, except for the 2.5-mile-wide strip of land filled with mines, barbed wire, and watched by hundreds of thousands of soldiers.
 
2014-05-08 04:48:40 PM  

Arkanaut: grimlock1972: I disagree with China on many things but this once i have to agree with them.   That said i would think more would go south to freedom rather than north to China.

Most would do that, except for the 2.5-mile-wide strip of land filled with mines, barbed wire, and watched by hundreds of thousands of soldiers.


I dont understand why China does not take the same tactic.
 
2014-05-08 04:50:43 PM  

Arkanaut: grimlock1972: I disagree with China on many things but this once i have to agree with them.   That said i would think more would go south to freedom rather than north to China.

Most would do that, except for the 2.5-mile-wide strip of land filled with mines, barbed wire, and watched by hundreds of thousands of soldiers.


Yes, indeed. A lot of interested people have spent nearly 60 years and a lot of money to ensure that it is very, very difficult for the North Koreans to go south.
 
2014-05-08 04:51:09 PM  

Geotpf: The main issue China has with a united Korea is that there would then be American troops on it's border.  All other issues are secondary to them.


That would be an even better reason to hand NK over to SK, a puppet NK gov would be a reason for 'Merka to keep the troops where they are.  If SK controls the entire peninsula then there may be no need for the troops.
 
2014-05-08 04:51:28 PM  

Cletus C.: Just like the Tea Party, North Korea is collapsing.

The similarities seemingly never end.


Even you must be getting tired of you by now.
 
2014-05-08 04:52:07 PM  

Saiga410: Arkanaut: grimlock1972: I disagree with China on many things but this once i have to agree with them.   That said i would think more would go south to freedom rather than north to China.

Most would do that, except for the 2.5-mile-wide strip of land filled with mines, barbed wire, and watched by hundreds of thousands of soldiers.

I dont understand why China does not take the same tactic.


Probably because China isn't worried about a full-bore military invasion like South Korea was.
 
2014-05-08 05:00:57 PM  

Geotpf:
The main issue China has with a united Korea is that there would then be American troops on it's border.  All other issues are secondary to them.


They've already got US troops on their boarder, thru Pakistan, and a tiny little piece of Afghanistan. And they also have Russian and Indian troops on their boarder as well. They gotta really big boarder!
 
2014-05-08 05:07:12 PM  

bootman: Geotpf: The main issue China has with a united Korea is that there would then be American troops on it's border.  All other issues are secondary to them.

That would be an even better reason to hand NK over to SK, a puppet NK gov would be a reason for 'Merka to keep the troops where they are.  If SK controls the entire peninsula then there may be no need for the troops.


Haha, yeah, that'll change things. "Gee, now we have direct access to the Chinese border through one of our most solid allies. Welp, guess it's time to pack up and leave."

The only thing less likely to happen is for the Chinese to believe that that is what would happen, which is what matters as far as their decision-making goes.
 
2014-05-08 05:13:24 PM  
 
2014-05-08 05:19:49 PM  

tinyarena: Geotpf:
The main issue China has with a united Korea is that there would then be American troops on it's border.  All other issues are secondary to them.

They've already got US troops on their boarder, thru Pakistan, and a tiny little piece of Afghanistan. And they also have Russian and Indian troops on their boarder as well. They gotta really big boarder!


If you look on a topological map, you might notice that their border with Pakistan and Afghanistan is characterized by lots and lots of mountains. Tall ones, which means that the US couldn't bring any heavy equipment into China through Afghanistan or Pakistan. And a lot of those mountains are controlled by the Taliban and the Haqqani Network, so it's hardly a secure supply line. And even assuming the US invades through there, they'd just end up in the Taklamakan desert, hardly conducive to military operations.

Korea borders the Sea of Japan, and the US could easily supply its troops there by water. If the US invades through Korea and are able to make advances, they would easily end up controlling Manchuria, which is heavily industrialized and populated. This would pose a much greater risk to China than the Afghan border.

That said, there's a chance that if the Korean Peninsula is unified under one government, there would be much less reason for the US military to stay in Korea, since we're not at war with China, just North Korea. So there is a potential security benefit to China from reunification.
 
2014-05-08 05:37:02 PM  
 
2014-05-08 05:42:25 PM  

Arkanaut: tinyarena: Geotpf:
The main issue China has with a united Korea is that there would then be American troops on it's border.  All other issues are secondary to them.

They've already got US troops on their boarder, thru Pakistan, and a tiny little piece of Afghanistan. And they also have Russian and Indian troops on their boarder as well. They gotta really big boarder!

If you look on a topological map, you might notice that their border with Pakistan and Afghanistan is characterized by lots and lots of mountains. Tall ones, which means that the US couldn't bring any heavy equipment into China through Afghanistan or Pakistan. And a lot of those mountains are controlled by the Taliban and the Haqqani Network, so it's hardly a secure supply line. And even assuming the US invades through there, they'd just end up in the Taklamakan desert, hardly conducive to military operations.

Korea borders the Sea of Japan, and the US could easily supply its troops there by water. If the US invades through Korea and are able to make advances, they would easily end up controlling Manchuria, which is heavily industrialized and populated. This would pose a much greater risk to China than the Afghan border.

That said, there's a chance that if the Korean Peninsula is unified under one government, there would be much less reason for the US military to stay in Korea, since we're not at war with China, just North Korea. So there is a potential security benefit to China from reunification.


Thanks, I didn't know that.
The only question is, "Why the heck would the US invade a country of 1.3 Brazilian people?"
 
2014-05-08 05:43:44 PM  

EngineerAU: When Best Korea fails, the big question is will they reunite with South Korea, like Germany did, or will China get to install a loyal puppet government? Seems like China is in a better position to take advantage of the situation.


Here's an interesting discussion of reunification:

http://www.arirang.co.kr/Tv2/Tv_PlusHomepage_Full.asp?PROG_CODE=TVCR 06 68&MENU_CODE=101685
 
2014-05-08 05:46:20 PM  

tinyarena: They gotta really big boarder!


i1.ytimg.com
 
2014-05-08 06:16:11 PM  

tinyarena: Arkanaut: tinyarena: Geotpf:
The main issue China has with a united Korea is that there would then be American troops on it's border.  All other issues are secondary to them.

They've already got US troops on their boarder, thru Pakistan, and a tiny little piece of Afghanistan. And they also have Russian and Indian troops on their boarder as well. They gotta really big boarder!

If you look on a topological map, you might notice that their border with Pakistan and Afghanistan is characterized by lots and lots of mountains. Tall ones, which means that the US couldn't bring any heavy equipment into China through Afghanistan or Pakistan. And a lot of those mountains are controlled by the Taliban and the Haqqani Network, so it's hardly a secure supply line. And even assuming the US invades through there, they'd just end up in the Taklamakan desert, hardly conducive to military operations.

Korea borders the Sea of Japan, and the US could easily supply its troops there by water. If the US invades through Korea and are able to make advances, they would easily end up controlling Manchuria, which is heavily industrialized and populated. This would pose a much greater risk to China than the Afghan border.

That said, there's a chance that if the Korean Peninsula is unified under one government, there would be much less reason for the US military to stay in Korea, since we're not at war with China, just North Korea. So there is a potential security benefit to China from reunification.

Thanks, I didn't know that.
The only question is, "Why the heck would the US invade a country of 1.3 Brazilian people?"


Why would the US invade Iraq for 9/11, it didn't have anything to do with it? South Korea may still want some US troops if SK takes NK as it will then share a border with China, and historically China has played the Drunken Football Player to Korea's Freshman at her first Frat Party. The thing I've found about Asia, I know I'm generalizing, but they all hate each other over stuff that goes back centuries. It's like the Balkans with better food.
 
2014-05-08 06:38:49 PM  

Crewmannumber6: Cletus C.: Just like the Tea Party, North Korea is collapsing.

The similarities seemingly never end.

Even you must be getting tired of you by now.


You cared enough to respond. Good on you.
 
2014-05-08 06:42:02 PM  
Doesn't China support "Open Borders," I hear it all the rage when you want to grow the economy and control costs.
 
2014-05-08 06:44:51 PM  

Hoarseman:
Why would the US invade Iraq for 9/11, it didn't have anything to do with it? South Korea may still want some US troops if SK takes NK as it will then share a border with China, and historically China has played the Drunken Football Player to Korea's Freshman at her first Frat Party. The thing I've found about Asia, I know I'm generalizing, but they all hate each other over stuff that goes back centuries. It's like the Balkans with better food.


LoL
yeah, I can see your point, we'll elect another BushCo. someday, and all promises are off
Okay, China gets NK
Now we have Chinese troops and US troops toe-to-toe
Actually, that's a really bad idea too...
 
2014-05-08 06:57:31 PM  

qorkfiend: China's in the best position to know, and if they think the chances that it'll actually happen are good enough that they're making preparations, then it'll probably happen.


For the last 20 years though.

Maybe they could make it happen though.
 
2014-05-08 07:16:46 PM  
Set them free China and let them spread a love of kim-chi across the world.

THE WORLD
 
2014-05-08 07:39:22 PM  

EngineerAU: When Best Korea fails, the big question is will they reunite with South Korea, like Germany did, or will China get to install a loyal puppet government? Seems like China is in a better position to take advantage of the situation.


Reunification would probably economically ruin South Korea.

Relatively speaking, South Korea is not as wealthy as West Germany was, and North Korea is MUCH, MUUUUUUUUUUUCH poorer than East Germany was.
 
2014-05-08 09:49:42 PM  

Geotpf: bootman: EngineerAU: When Best Korea fails, the big question is will they reunite with South Korea, like Germany did, or will China get to install a loyal puppet government? Seems like China is in a better position to take advantage of the situation.

Thinking about it, China may be better off giving NK to SK.  Let SK spend the hundreds of billions to uplift NK's infrastructure, sell SK materials and whatnot, nobody is in any better position to deliver.  It is not like a NK puppet would have the cash to spend.

The main issue China has with a united Korea is that there would then be American troops on it's border.  All other issues are secondary to them.


I expect China to install a puppet government with orders to uplift the country and family in Beijing.
 
2014-05-08 10:23:55 PM  

qorkfiend: Arkanaut: grimlock1972: I disagree with China on many things but this once i have to agree with them.   That said i would think more would go south to freedom rather than north to China.

Most would do that, except for the 2.5-mile-wide strip of land filled with mines, barbed wire, and watched by hundreds of thousands of soldiers.

Yes, indeed. A lot of interested people have spent nearly 60 years and a lot of money to ensure that it is very, very difficult for the North Koreans to go south.


Also, the Norks are told, quite loudly and proudly, that China is their Ally, while South Korea is controlled by American forces who eat babies, kill for fun, and will slaughter the lot of them.

North Koreans, like all intelligent slaves, know that their slave master may lie to them, but nowhere near as much as all the evil foreigners and outsiders.
 
2014-05-08 10:30:04 PM  

Cletus C.: Just like the Tea Party, North Korea is collapsing.

The similarities seemingly never end.


We can send them and republicans there and they can start their own country that they can turn into the wild west and run into the ground in 2-3 years.
 
2014-05-08 11:13:39 PM  
The US and South Korea should offer China a deal; help us deal with North Korea in exchange for the removal of all US troops from the Korean pennensula.
 
2014-05-09 01:27:16 AM  

Crewmannumber6: If Best Korea implodes they may just shoot off their nukes just for the hell of it.


Shoot off what nukes? There's no evidence they've been able to make a practical nuclear weapon that could actually be delivered to a target. Static tests are one thing, weaponizing is a whole different matter.
 
2014-05-09 07:11:42 AM  

OhioUGrad: Cletus C.: Just like the Tea Party, North Korea is collapsing.

The similarities seemingly never end.

We can send them and republicans there and they can start their own country that they can turn into the wild west and run into the ground in 2-3 years.


So when are you relocating ?
img.fark.net
 
2014-05-09 07:41:55 AM  

Satanic_Hamster: The US and South Korea should offer China a deal; help us deal with North Korea in exchange for the removal of all US troops from the Korean pennensula.


Something similar was 

Delta1212: bootman: Geotpf: The main issue China has with a united Korea is that there would then be American troops on it's border.  All other issues are secondary to them.

That would be an even better reason to hand NK over to SK, a puppet NK gov would be a reason for 'Merka to keep the troops where they are.  If SK controls the entire peninsula then there may be no need for the troops.

Haha, yeah, that'll change things. "Gee, now we have direct access to the Chinese border through one of our most solid allies. Welp, guess it's time to pack up and leave."

The only thing less likely to happen is for the Chinese to believe that that is what would happen, which is what matters as far as their decision-making goes.


Not sure why the US would even need to be there after reunification. But China could make it part of the settlement and peace treaty that non-Korean troops stay south of the old DMZ. Soviet Russia asked as part of Germany's reunification settlement for NATO to stay out of the former East Germany.
 
2014-05-09 08:03:14 AM  
And they'll get a damn sight more food in those camps than they did in DPRK

.
 
2014-05-09 08:38:05 AM  

Geotpf: bootman: EngineerAU: When Best Korea fails, the big question is will they reunite with South Korea, like Germany did, or will China get to install a loyal puppet government? Seems like China is in a better position to take advantage of the situation.

Thinking about it, China may be better off giving NK to SK.  Let SK spend the hundreds of billions to uplift NK's infrastructure, sell SK materials and whatnot, nobody is in any better position to deliver.  It is not like a NK puppet would have the cash to spend.

The main issue China has with a united Korea is that there would then be American troops on it's border.  All other issues are secondary to them.


Would there though? I don't want to sound completely naive (although I probably am) but if all of Korea is South Korea, then there is no NK threat? Ergo no need for troops?

/not trolling
 
2014-05-09 09:37:45 AM  
Once NK falls let's just give control to Haliburton and cut out the middle men. We could put on a Brand USA tradeshow to make the people like us.

/obscure?
 
2014-05-09 10:42:44 AM  

Darwins Point-ed Stick: Geotpf: bootman: EngineerAU: When Best Korea fails, the big question is will they reunite with South Korea, like Germany did, or will China get to install a loyal puppet government? Seems like China is in a better position to take advantage of the situation.

Thinking about it, China may be better off giving NK to SK.  Let SK spend the hundreds of billions to uplift NK's infrastructure, sell SK materials and whatnot, nobody is in any better position to deliver.  It is not like a NK puppet would have the cash to spend.

The main issue China has with a united Korea is that there would then be American troops on it's border.  All other issues are secondary to them.

Would there though? I don't want to sound completely naive (although I probably am) but if all of Korea is South Korea, then there is no NK threat? Ergo no need for troops?

/not trolling


There are US troops in Germany, Japan, and dozens of other countries across the globe.  Plus, China would exist; it would be in the US's interests to have an easy land route if we ever decided to attack it.  Also, they could help with the reunification and possibly would be needed to quell any rouge groups loyal to the former North Korean regime (unlikely as that may seem).
 
2014-05-09 10:44:18 AM  
Oh, and one of the main reasons Russia is farking with the Ukraine is the exact same reason-they want a buffer zone between Russia and NATO/western friendly countries as much as possible.
 
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