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(UPI)   Amendment Five protects citizens for incriminating themselves in sworn testimony. Not valid in Congress, subject to change without notice, your mileage may vary, offer void after 90 days, see manufacturer for details   (upi.com) divider line 219
    More: Fail, Lois Lerner, contempt of Congress, Nick Rahall, Billboard Music Award, party-line vote, amendments, Attorney General Eric Holder, Fifth Amendment  
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2677 clicks; posted to Politics » on 08 May 2014 at 10:04 AM (49 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



219 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-05-08 08:02:51 AM  
Subby doesn't understand the fifth amendment.

Guess how we know subby is an obama voter.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-05-08 08:04:46 AM  
She has the same right Monica Goodling and Oliver North had before her.
 
2014-05-08 08:19:03 AM  

OnlyM3: Subby doesn't understand the fifth amendment.

Guess how we know subby is an obama voter.


What about it isn't understood?

/not subby
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-05-08 08:31:54 AM  
Fifth Amendment law is a minefield. I gather the claim here is that she waived the privilege by starting to testify. Apparently this is a common trap laid for grand jury witnesses, who are not allowed to have lawyers present. Ask some innocent question, get an answer, then ask an incriminating question.
 
2014-05-08 08:48:57 AM  

ZAZ: Fifth Amendment law is a minefield. I gather the claim here is that she waived the privilege by starting to testify. Apparently this is a common trap laid for grand jury witnesses, who are not allowed to have lawyers present. Ask some innocent question, get an answer, then ask an incriminating question.


This interpretation clearly violates the Founding Father's Original Intent. A sleazy prosecutor might do that, but it's amazing that high-minded, principled, Constitutionalist, Conservative Republicans would do that.
 
2014-05-08 08:56:49 AM  
"You don't get to use a public hearing to tell the public and press your side of the story and then invoke the Fifth," said Oversight Committee Chairman Darrell Issa, R-Calif., who has led the investigation into Lerner, on the House floor. "That is not how the Fifth Amendment is meant to be used. It is a shield; Lois Lerner used it as a sword."

Darrell Issa is one of the country's biggest complete farking scumbags.

OnlyM3: Subby doesn't understand the fifth amendment.

Guess how we know subby is an obama voter.


Please. Enlighten us. I ask you directly to explain the Fifth Amendment and what we don't understand about it.
 
2014-05-08 08:59:05 AM  

Bloody William: Please. Enlighten us.


Don't hold your breath.
 
2014-05-08 09:02:10 AM  

Diogenes: Bloody William: Please. Enlighten us.

Don't hold your breath.


I'm not, but every time a stupid quip like that comes out, I like to directly ask them to explain it. It makes the silence that much louder.
 
2014-05-08 09:09:09 AM  
On advice of counsel, I decline to comment in this thread based on the protections afforded to me by the 5th amendment.
 
2014-05-08 09:26:44 AM  

Diogenes: Bloody William: Please. Enlighten us.

Don't hold your breath.


I tried that once and was resuscitated by a really hot blonde....turns out that it was really a ginger named Tim. My mind was still hazy at that point.
 
2014-05-08 09:32:49 AM  

somedude210: Diogenes: Bloody William: Please. Enlighten us.

Don't hold your breath.

I tried that once and was resuscitated by a really hot blonde....turns out that it was really a ginger named Tim. My mind was still hazy at that point.


Yeah...I'm not taking any chances where OnlyMO is concerned.  You'll end up with lungful of derp.
 
2014-05-08 09:47:30 AM  
awdsgn.com

can't plead the fifth? then plead the fif.
 
2014-05-08 10:06:25 AM  
Did she actually say "I plead the fifth"? because I think the SCOTUS ruled that unless you actually say those words, it doesn't apply
 
2014-05-08 10:10:23 AM  
All rights are conditional.  Like if you let a soldier use your bathroom you have to allow them to live in your house.

It's true.
 
2014-05-08 10:10:30 AM  

Bloody William: "You don't get to use a public hearing to tell the public and press your side of the story and then invoke the Fifth," said Oversight Committee Chairman Darrell Issa, R-Calif., who has led the investigation into Lerner, on the House floor. "That is not how the Fifth Amendment is meant to be used. It is a shield; Lois Lerner used it as a sword."

Darrell Issa is one of the country's biggest complete farking scumbags.

OnlyM3: Subby doesn't understand the fifth amendment.

Guess how we know subby is an obama voter.

Please. Enlighten us. I ask you directly to explain the Fifth Amendment and what we don't understand about it.


Best thing I've read about how the fifth commandment has been interpreted in the past POPEHAT
 
2014-05-08 10:10:33 AM  

Bloody William: Diogenes: Bloody William: Please. Enlighten us.

Don't hold your breath.

I'm not, but every time a stupid quip like that comes out, I like to directly ask them to explain it. It makes the silence that much louder.


It's only been an hour.  I'm sure we're going to get put in our places.
 
2014-05-08 10:10:34 AM  
"I have here in my hand a list of 205 [IRS employees] that were known to the President of the United States as being members of the Communist Party and who nevertheless are still working and shaping the policy of the New World Order."
 
2014-05-08 10:11:20 AM  
I'd be ok with holding those people in contempt being on my record.
 
2014-05-08 10:12:38 AM  
Give her testimonial immunity, if the truth is what you are looking for.
 
2014-05-08 10:13:06 AM  
Aren't derps always pissing and moaning about "strongly worded" letters.
 
2014-05-08 10:13:56 AM  

Lost Thought 00: Did she actually say "I plead the fifth"? because I think the SCOTUS ruled that unless you actually say those words, it doesn't apply


Did the flag have a gold fringe?
 
2014-05-08 10:14:12 AM  

Cheron: fifth commandment


museemagazine.com
 
2014-05-08 10:14:21 AM  
If you don't want your "congressional inquiry" to be called a mindless witch hunt, maybe you shouldn't use it to punish people you have been convicted of no crime.
 
2014-05-08 10:14:32 AM  
I think the House has confused contempt with being contemptible
 
2014-05-08 10:15:06 AM  
Contempt of Congress is a jailable offense? They're going to have to imprison a good chunk of the population if that is true.
 
2014-05-08 10:15:37 AM  
IPEACHGHAZI!!
 
2014-05-08 10:15:59 AM  
Taking the fifth gave this "scandal" a longer life. Thanks, Lois.
 
2014-05-08 10:16:01 AM  

Lost Thought 00: Did she actually say "I plead the fifth"? because I think the SCOTUS ruled that unless you actually say those words, it doesn't apply


Yes.
"On the advice of my counsel I respectfully exercise my fifth amendment right and decline to answer that question," Lerner said.
...
The Committee voted and concluded that because Lerner made a statement before pleading the Fifth, she effectively waived her Fifth Amendment rights.

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2014/03/05/lois-lerner-bef or e-oversight-committee-n1804450

//Copy pasta from a townhall acticle, its simply the first one I found, I feel dirty.

I'm quite sure you don't waive the fifth by answering some questions. That's not the intent of the fifth amendment at all.
 
2014-05-08 10:17:15 AM  

Cletus C.: Taking the fifth gave this "scandal" a longer life. Thanks, Lois.



You think it would go away if she gave incriminating testimony?
 
2014-05-08 10:18:07 AM  
Even as a person who considers himself a "conservative", these neo-conservative hyper-religious groups are full of it. All of them in my area of North Texas are actively campaigning and promoting neo-conservative hyper-religious candidates.
 
2014-05-08 10:19:11 AM  

enry: OnlyM3: Subby doesn't understand the fifth amendment.

Guess how we know subby is an obama voter.

What about it isn't understood?



If you make public statements about a matter, the Supremes have ruled that you have waived your 5th Amendment protection. You are required to clam up or spill. You are not allowed to have it both ways. That being said, if you make a private statement that is recorded without your consent or without a warrant, you have not waived your 5th Amendment protection.

That is what isn't understood. If she had just said "no comment" or "I cannot speak about a matter under investigation" or "this issue needs to be handled through appropriate channels" or even "FOAD, press leeches!", she'd have been safe.
 
2014-05-08 10:19:37 AM  

MindStalker: Lost Thought 00: Did she actually say "I plead the fifth"? because I think the SCOTUS ruled that unless you actually say those words, it doesn't apply

Yes.
"On the advice of my counsel I respectfully exercise my fifth amendment right and decline to answer that question," Lerner said.
...
The Committee voted and concluded that because Lerner made a statement before pleading the Fifth, she effectively waived her Fifth Amendment rights.
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2014/03/05/lois-lerner-bef or e-oversight-committee-n1804450

//Copy pasta from a townhall acticle, its simply the first one I found, I feel dirty.

I'm quite sure you don't waive the fifth by answering some questions. That's not the intent of the fifth amendment at all.


Yeah, can't you answer questions in which you're not incriminating yourself? This makes no sense.
 
2014-05-08 10:19:49 AM  

jigger: Cletus C.: Taking the fifth gave this "scandal" a longer life. Thanks, Lois.


You think it would go away if she gave incriminating testimony?


No, it would not go away if that happened. But I have been assured there is nothing incriminating to be had. Just sloppy bureaucrats or something.
 
2014-05-08 10:19:58 AM  

MindStalker: I'm quite sure you don't waive the fifth by answering some questions. That's not the intent of the fifth amendment at all.


You'd be wrong.  As a matter of fact, you just waived your rights by even mentioning "fifth amendment".

Oh, shiat, now you made me do it!
 
2014-05-08 10:20:08 AM  
Not valid in Congress

It's not valid in a criminal court, either, if the defendant decides to waive it by starting to testify.

In related news, you can't object to the results of a search of your house if you give police permission to search your house.
 
2014-05-08 10:20:22 AM  

ZAZ: Fifth Amendment law is a minefield. I gather the claim here is that she waived the privilege by starting to testify. Apparently this is a common trap laid for grand jury witnesses, who are not allowed to have lawyers present. Ask some innocent question, get an answer, then ask an incriminating question.


By the year 2014, anyone who doesn't know that, if you do not have an attorney present, keep your yap 100% shut ought not be considered competent to manage their own affairs.
 
2014-05-08 10:20:41 AM  

ZAZ: Fifth Amendment law is a minefield. I gather the claim here is that she waived the privilege by starting to testify. Apparently this is a common trap laid for grand jury witnesses, who are not allowed to have lawyers present. Ask some innocent question, get an answer, then ask an incriminating question.


How does asking some innocent question get around the, "nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself" protection?
 
2014-05-08 10:21:15 AM  

Cheron: Bloody William: "You don't get to use a public hearing to tell the public and press your side of the story and then invoke the Fifth," said Oversight Committee Chairman Darrell Issa, R-Calif., who has led the investigation into Lerner, on the House floor. "That is not how the Fifth Amendment is meant to be used. It is a shield; Lois Lerner used it as a sword."

Darrell Issa is one of the country's biggest complete farking scumbags.

OnlyM3: Subby doesn't understand the fifth amendment.

Guess how we know subby is an obama voter.

Please. Enlighten us. I ask you directly to explain the Fifth Amendment and what we don't understand about it.

Best thing I've read about how the fifth commandment has been interpreted in the past POPEHAT


That's an interesting read.  If nothing else, it would indicate that at most she could be forced to testify in Issa's show trial, but not the separate, new one run by Gowdy.
 
2014-05-08 10:22:58 AM  
As a democrat, I sincerely hope the repubs pin 90% of their 2016 campaign on Benghazi and Obamacare. Please.
 
2014-05-08 10:23:18 AM  
Everyone knows the only amendment that is absolute is the 2nd amendment. Come on.
 
2014-05-08 10:23:42 AM  

Lost Thought 00: Did she actually say "I plead the fifth"? because I think the SCOTUS ruled that unless you actually say those words, it doesn't apply


Here is the best summary I can find of the statement in question:

When it became her turn to speak, Lerner read a brief statement into the record, declaring her innocence.

"I have not done anything wrong," she said. "I have not broken any laws, I have not violated any IRS rules or regulations, and I have not provided false information to this or any other congressional committee."
Lerner then said that while she "would very much like to answer the committee's questions," her counsel advised her to assert her constitutional right not to testify or answer questions related to the subject matter of the hearing.

"Because I'm asserting my right not to testify, I know that some people will assume that I've done something wrong. I have not," she reiterated. "One of the basic functions of the Fifth Amendment is to protect innocent individuals, and that is the protection I'm invoking today."


Issa and the House Republicans have claimed that since you can't use the Fifth Amendment to only answer the questions you want, the fact that she explained in her statement why she was pleading the Fifth instead of simply saying "I wish to not incriminate myself so I won't answer your question" means she's waived her right against self-incrimination.
 
2014-05-08 10:25:12 AM  
Obama should pardon her.
 
2014-05-08 10:25:50 AM  
Since this isn't a criminal court and she's already resigned, what is the worst the justice department could do to her if they decide to prosecute her?
 
2014-05-08 10:27:31 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: MindStalker: Lost Thought 00: Did she actually say "I plead the fifth"? because I think the SCOTUS ruled that unless you actually say those words, it doesn't apply

Yes.
"On the advice of my counsel I respectfully exercise my fifth amendment right and decline to answer that question," Lerner said.
...
The Committee voted and concluded that because Lerner made a statement before pleading the Fifth, she effectively waived her Fifth Amendment rights.
http://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2014/03/05/lois-lerner-bef or e-oversight-committee-n1804450

//Copy pasta from a townhall acticle, its simply the first one I found, I feel dirty.

I'm quite sure you don't waive the fifth by answering some questions. That's not the intent of the fifth amendment at all.

Yeah, can't you answer questions in which you're not incriminating yourself? This makes no sense.


What questions do they think waives your right to stop answering questions?
Mr. X Have you been properly sworn in?
Mr. X are you comfortable?
Mr. X is my tie green?
Is your shoe untied?
Do you know why we called you here today?
Do you recognize the authority of this body?
Do you think you are covered by the protections of the fifth amendment? ( you could answer that one and lose the protection?)
 
2014-05-08 10:28:03 AM  

OnlyM3: Subby doesn't understand the fifth amendment.

Guess how we know subby is an obama voter.


Over in 1.

/Since when has an Obama supporter cared about the Constitution anyways? Where were you  when the 1st, 2nd, 4th Amendments were being violated by  the President?
 
2014-05-08 10:29:39 AM  

Karac: Could you perhaps cite a ruling which supports your claim?


He read it on Fark.
 
2014-05-08 10:30:35 AM  

Diogenes: Bloody William: Please. Enlighten us.

Don't hold your breath.


He's taking the 5th.
 
2014-05-08 10:31:35 AM  

Nemo's Brother: OnlyM3: Subby doesn't understand the fifth amendment.

Guess how we know subby is an obama voter.

Over in 1.

/Since when has an Obama supporter cared about the Constitution anyways? Where were you  when the 1st, 2nd, 4th Amendments were being violated by  the President?

media.tumblr.com

Seriously though you derps need to pace yourselves its not even 10 a.m. and I'm almost out of crying gifs.
 
2014-05-08 10:31:38 AM  

sgtlejeune: As a democrat, I sincerely hope the repubs pin 90% of their 2016 campaign on Benghazi and Obamacare. Please.


Well, to be truthful, this is neither, this is the stupid "IRS targeting conservative groups" thing (they were targeting liberal groups too but...).

I believe there is a chance that Obamacare will actually help in the elections.  IE, people who have benefited from Obamacare but haven't voted in the past turn out to vote a straight Democratic ticket.  Said people would not show up in most polls because since they haven't voted in the past they would not be considered likely voters, so they polls wouldn't really reflect them.  Admittedly, this is mostly wishful thinking.
 
2014-05-08 10:31:53 AM  

Nemo's Brother: OnlyM3: Subby doesn't understand the fifth amendment.

Guess how we know subby is an obama voter.

Over in 1.

/Since when has an Obama supporter cared about the Constitution anyways? Where were you  when the 1st, 2nd, 4th Amendments were being violated by  the President?


Sounds like Obama took yer guns.
 
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