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(SacBee)   The U.S. government has a problem with states handing out driver licenses to illegal immigrants. Hey Feds, you might want to look into the crime of Sanctuary Cities while you're at it   (blogs.sacbee.com) divider line 388
    More: Spiffy, U.S. government, illegal immigrants, United States, driver's licenses, federal Department of Homeland Security, identity document, DMV  
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5731 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 May 2014 at 10:04 AM (10 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-08 11:02:20 AM
Bob Robert


Thunderpipes: Are you serious?

Most work under the table, pay no taxes. Many receive benefits, free of charge. Much of the cash they make is sent back to Mexico. Know how much money it costs for an illegal to have a kid at a hospital? Oh ya, hospital cannot even ask if they are a citizen or report them at all.

Are people really this ignorant?


feel free at any time to provide citations that prove our point


This says you are wrong but what do the experts know

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impact_of_illegal_immigrants_ in _the_United_States#Taxes_contributed


Not saying he is right, but Wikipedia is not even considered a valid source of factual information in my sons 4th grade class.
 
2014-05-08 11:02:28 AM

Bob Robert: pay taxes and send their kids to school where they learn English


Free school isn't a benefit?
 
2014-05-08 11:02:42 AM
Because when Reagan did it, it worked out perfectly and solved the problem...heeeey...wait a minute.
 
2014-05-08 11:03:32 AM
Look, I don't really have any problem with illegal aliens. Especially if they're working, great, I won't turn you in.
But letting people who's current status is illegal get a license is ridiculous.
I can't renew my own license until I pay for an outstanding ticket and get an emissions inspection. In other words, I have to be completely legal before I get one. if they don't have to be legal, why do I?
 
2014-05-08 11:03:45 AM

Khellendros: Cold_Sassy: Illegal immigrants do not deserve a driver's license.  They're not even supposed to farking be here, and drain resources from people who have a legitimate claim to them.  This is bullsh*t..

You're right.  It's not like they pay sales/consumer taxes, add labor to the economy, do jobs no one else wants, pay rent, purchase or consumer goods, and all without having access to things like social security, unemployment, or any other federal or state benefits.

Yeah, they're such resource drains.


Correct; they don't pay federal income tax (but we want the Ritchie's to)... they don't pay FICA (social security) but they collect disability; they have neither car insurance nor health Ins, so you pay more in hit and runs and in Emerg. Room costs; and, wait what, they get driver's licenses, but to vote, it costs too much so it is an illegal poll tax? Libtards going full DERP today!
 
2014-05-08 11:05:59 AM

OnlyM3: TuteTibiImperes [TotalFark]
(favorite: 8237306-supports free speech zones)


Let's make this easy and just get on with amnesty already.
ROTFLMAO

Breaking and entering = Rewards!
Desire to exercise your right to free speech? = Get in the 'free speech cage" where nobody can hear you!

liberal logic.


I think they have an ice flow up in Eskimo land with your name on it. You are already late getting there.
 
2014-05-08 11:06:02 AM
The real question here is have any of you EVER been happy with a picture taken for your driver's license?  Cuz, in PA they allow you to preview it and take it again if you aren't happy with it.  I never am happy with it...then I have to look at it for like 5 years.
 
2014-05-08 11:06:24 AM

doubled99: I can't renew my own license until I pay for an outstanding ticket and get an emissions inspection. In other words, I have to be completely legal before I get one. if they don't have to be legal, why do I?


And this is the real problem with the whole illegal immigrant issue.  People who aren't even supposed to be in the country are getting a free pass to a LOT of stuff that the citizens have to pay for.  Why?  I'm still trying to figure that out.
 
2014-05-08 11:07:09 AM

JackieRabbit: Why don't we just do away with the concept of citizenship altogether and just open our borders to anyone and everyone to come here and do as they please? Which is another way of asking when we lost our farking minds about illegal immigration? It isn't a left vs right issue and never has been.


It is insofar as the right is terrified that new immigrants will largely vote left. So rather than create immigrant-friendly policies consistent with right-side platforms, they'd rather pour tax money down the drain fighting an unwinnable war and scream LLLIIBBERRALLLSSS!

Which has some pretty serious implications for how much they believe in the strength or correctness of their own positions, that they automatically assume that new and unaffiliated voters would run to the other guys.
 
2014-05-08 11:07:52 AM

Random Anonymous Blackmail: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impact_of_illegal_immigrants_ in _the_United_States#Taxes_contributed


Not saying he is right, but Wikipedia is not even considered a valid source of factual information in my sons 4th grade class.


sure, sure and that would be a valid argument except that the info in Wikipedia is sourced. For example much of the information for the linked section is taken from the CBO and there's a nice link to the relevant article at the bottom of the page.
 
2014-05-08 11:08:55 AM

Bob Robert: DrewCurtisJr: Bob Robert: Fun fact every working illegal pays all those taxes because they are using someone elses identity but will never actually claim the benefits.

Right no benefits, who do you think pays when they go to the hospital?

They are afraid to go to the hospital for fear of being found and deported


DrewCurtisJr: Bob Robert: Every hypocrite here complaining about illegals comes from the same type of immigrants.

You may want to think about that a little bit.

Think about what? Your ancestors just showed up at the door and were let in. They showed up at the door. There is no difference except back then there weren't racist quotas and requirements that only make middle and upper class people get in.


Wrong.

Hospitals are bound by law to not request citizenship, they cannot legally report anyone. Illegals get free child birth. Quite expensive.
 
2014-05-08 11:09:16 AM
Turn the border in to a target range.
Problem solved.
 
2014-05-08 11:09:34 AM

Bob Robert: They are afraid of using any services for fear of being found and deported, whether right or wrong this is their fear. They stay under the radar.


You mean the same ones who are driving without licenses, even though is by FAR the most common way to come in contact with law enforcement.

Bob Robert: I didn't say everyone


Bob Robert: Every hypocrite here complaining about illegals comes from the same type of immigrants.


You are making a ridiculous assumption.
 
2014-05-08 11:10:21 AM

You Are All Sheep: violentsalvation: TuteTibiImperes: Let's make this easy and just get on with amnesty already.

I'm for this, with a path to citizenship five or ten years down the road. We need to stop pretending these people don't exist, or that they deserve to live in the shadows and off the books. It is wrong to exploit their lack of labor rights simply because they have no legal recourse, and it is wrong to have INS go in and break up families and send people who want to be American citizens "home" just because. We can't keep these people out, we've tried.

I have respect for the people who come here legally, but it is hard to not have respect for someone who sets out through the desert, facing dehydration and death, spending every peso to their name paying some murderous cartel coyote to get them past the checkpoints for a slim chance at the American dream. If that person isn't crooked or criminal then I'd say they passed the test, a fine addition to our country. And since we can't stop them, we should at least learn their names and give them some residency paperwork.

so what laws can we just get around then?  how many other countries have an issue w/ illegal immigrants, and what do they do?

Is it THAT hard to come over her legally?  or are they doing it to avoid the costs of being a citizen?  Or because they are criminals?


The last time I had a FarkArgument about this, it was quite well shown that it IS indeed very difficult, time consuming, and expensive for someone to become a citizen.    The amount of hoops they have to jump through are ridiculous.
Our gov't really needs to streamline the process, and make it FAR easier for those that want to be here, and work, to do it legally.  All the time and effort we spend on trying to get them here legally now is a collosal failure and a nightmare.

Granted, yeah, some of them are criminals.  They should be treated like any other criminals.  But the majority aren't criminals.  If they are here trying to earn an honest buck, we should make it easier for them to do so.

Now, having said that, I hope everyone realizes that part of the problem is us.  A BIG part of the problem.  We like our cheap labor.  We like our produce cheap.  We like our landscaping cheap.  We like our dishes in restaurants washed by some guy who doesn't even speak English.  So, in reality, the biggest hurdle is that making every last one of those migrants get on the books, would have a financial impact on our economy.  And no politician wants to be responsible for that.
 
2014-05-08 11:12:15 AM
So liberals want to completely abolish all immigration laws.

This will be fun.
 
2014-05-08 11:12:20 AM

jehovahs witness protection: Turn the border in to a target range.
Problem solved.


Most illegals enter the country with a passport and a guest visa for 90 days.  Then they just overstay.  They actually enter the country legally, so there's nothing we can do at that moment.

The "border jumpers" are only a fraction of the people who enter.
 
2014-05-08 11:12:35 AM

Bob Robert: unknownshooter: Lol, no, not a conservative at all - uninsured pregnant women (even if they're not here legally) get "free" healthcare..

eventually, the "free" kills the hospital, or they stop offering maternity services entirely.. seen it with my own eyes.. did my nursing OB clinicals at the maternity ward down the street, - that's now closed..

Once the crotch-fruit is out, it's "American", an anchor baby & we can't deport momma, becuz it's not "fair" to break up families...

You're just repeating the same lie over and over again without facts. The people who bankrupted the hospitals were uninsured Americans who walked through the door and were guaranteed service. This was a problem with the health care system pre Obamacare where free loaders were rewarded, and those freeloaders were not mostly  illegal immigrants they were legal residents. Try again.


Seriously - you're the one without facts here - please explain how a population estimated at eleven million people *without health insurance* doesn't impose a cost on taxpayers and harm hospitals?

Where, exactly, do the anchor-babies come from?    By definition, they're born in this country, so how is it "free"?
 
2014-05-08 11:13:45 AM

jehovahs witness protection: Turn the border in to a target range.
Problem solved.


Hey. Good to see you. I don't agree, but it is good to see you.

Actually, part of the border region is a target range. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_M._Goldwater_Air_Force_Range
 
2014-05-08 11:14:34 AM

Thunderpipes: So liberals want to completely abolish all immigration laws.

This will be fun.


So 'servatives want to declare open season on everyone with a swarthy complexion.

This will be fun
 
2014-05-08 11:15:21 AM
Bob Robert

Random Anonymous Blackmail: Not saying he is right, but Wikipedia is not even considered a valid source of factual information in my sons 4th grade class.


And here we go with wikipedia isn't a valid source, click on the citations below and feel free to prove it wrong, then send a submission to get it edited or stfu


I am not going to argue numbers with you, even Wikipedia does not consider it a credible source which in itself is ironic. Resource in the link below.

Link

Don't be so defensive next time.
 
2014-05-08 11:15:55 AM

Voiceofreason01: Thunderpipes: So liberals want to completely abolish all immigration laws.

This will be fun.

So 'servatives want to declare open season on everyone with a swarthy complexion.

This will be fun


No, that is a stupid lie, you know it.

But you really do want to abolish all immigration law. This is a fact. Free votes, cause all of them will be welfare suckers and vote for free stuff.
 
2014-05-08 11:16:00 AM

Sin_City_Superhero: Cold_Sassy: qorkfiend: Cold_Sassy: Illegal immigrants do not deserve a driver's license.

Why do you think that would prevent them from driving? What resources does saying "Ok, you're allowed to drive" drain?

It doesn't.  So what's the difference, except for another crapload of our tax dollars are going toward a 'license' for illegal aliens?  I object to that.

If they don't have a license, they CAN'T get insurance.  At least if they can get licenses, SOME of them will buy insurance.  And having an ID that illegals can BUY at the DMV won't drain a "crapload of our tax dollars".  It's no different than an ID card, or an "under 21" license.


How do you get a license with no social security number? I'm sure they're at a permanent and legal address, too.  And they'll all pay for insurance becase they don't need to eat and stuff.  On their income, that'll be the first thing that gets skipped.
 
2014-05-08 11:16:50 AM

JackieRabbit: BunkoSquad: JackieRabbit: Which is another way of asking when we lost our farking minds about illegal immigration?

About the time immigrants stopped being mostly European and started being mostly Asian and Hispanic.

An illegal European or Asian would be almost immediately deported if caught because they won't work for pennies on the dollar. Hispanics are our new Negroes and are being shamefully exploited. Meanwhile American citizens have a hard time finding work in the skilled trade because they won't build a house for $4/hr and work six 12 hour days each week.


i thought slaves ran away from slavery, not risking their lives to be sure to be enslaved.
 
2014-05-08 11:18:52 AM

LibertyHiller: BunkoSquad: JackieRabbit: Which is another way of asking when we lost our farking minds about illegal immigration?

About the time immigrants stopped being mostly Northern European and started being mostly Asian and Hispanic Italian and Slavic.

There, that's closer to how it happened.

Immigration Act of 1924 (from WP)


You're totally wrong about that too. Through the 17th to 19th centuries, Americans has an attitude toward German, Irish, and Swedish immigrants that was similar to today. They required them to immigrate legally.

The one group that was treated differently were the Chinese, for whom discriminatory quotas were put in place in the late 19th century.

With our weakened economy, high labor costs and corporate taxes we are becoming increasingly less attractive for immigration
 
2014-05-08 11:19:36 AM

Bob Robert: unknownshooter: Seriously - you're the one without facts here - please explain how a population estimated at eleven million people *without health insurance* doesn't impose a cost on taxpayers and harm hospitals?

Where, exactly, do the anchor-babies come from? By definition, they're born in this country, so how is it "free"?


Show me the statistics that blame illegals for hospitals financial problems? I described the actual problems hospitals faced, before Obamacare, over 50 million AMERICANS were uninsured, so tell me all about how it is the illegals fault.


I'd be willing to bet that your 50 million figure includes the eleven million illegals, and their crotch-fruit.
 
2014-05-08 11:20:10 AM

Random Anonymous Blackmail: Bob Robert

Random Anonymous Blackmail: Not saying he is right, but Wikipedia is not even considered a valid source of factual information in my sons 4th grade class.


And here we go with wikipedia isn't a valid source, click on the citations below and feel free to prove it wrong, then send a submission to get it edited or stfu


I am not going to argue numbers with you, even Wikipedia does not consider it a credible source which in itself is ironic. Resource in the link below.

Link

Don't be so defensive next time.


it's annoying to have someone who clearly doesn't understand how academic writing works parrot, "Wikipedia isn't a credible source" when the information posted is both correct, relevant and well sourced. Like in this case where OP's Wikipedia link was basically a  summary of a CBO article which was linked at the bottom of the page.
 
2014-05-08 11:21:09 AM

GrizzlyPouch: violentsalvation: TuteTibiImperes: Let's make this easy and just get on with amnesty already.

I'm for this, with a path to citizenship five or ten years down the road. We need to stop pretending these people don't exist, or that they deserve to live in the shadows and off the books. It is wrong to exploit their lack of labor rights simply because they have no legal recourse, and it is wrong to have INS go in and break up families and send people who want to be American citizens "home" just because. We can't keep these people out, we've tried.

I have respect for the people who come here legally, but it is hard to not have respect for someone who sets out through the desert, facing dehydration and death, spending every peso to their name paying some murderous cartel coyote to get them past the checkpoints for a slim chance at the American dream. If that person isn't crooked or criminal then I'd say they passed the test, a fine addition to our country. And since we can't stop them, we should at least learn their names and give them some residency paperwork.

So if I broke into your house house and stole something valuable from you'd be ok with it and have respect for me because it's kind of a tough thing to do and there are consequences if I get caught?


The problem here is your assumption that there's going to be stealing. That's a pretty breathtaking, not to mention racist assumption.

Going with Farker BMFPitt's upthread correction on this example, "your house" is shared with 300 million friends. Many of whom just want to invite their friends over. And extending this to my point about your assumptions, like many house guests immigrants are far more likely to clean the house's shared kitchen as a thank-you than to steal your stereo. Citation: tons of well-reviewed, independent studies that I wouldn't bother to link even if I wasn't on mobile because you wouldn't read them anyway. Facts have no place in your weltanschaaung, or you wouldn't still be arguing this shiat.
 
2014-05-08 11:21:45 AM

Thunderpipes: No, that is a stupid lie, you know it.


nope there are at least a few posters here who have suggested shooting at immigrants and you yourself are a well known gun nut who's just looking for an excuse to murder someone.
 
2014-05-08 11:23:02 AM

DrewCurtisJr: Bob Robert: Every hypocrite here complaining about illegals comes from the same type of immigrants.

You may want to think about that a little bit.


My grandparents were legal Irish immigrants.
 
2014-05-08 11:24:46 AM

Bob Robert: unknownshooter: I'd be willing to bet that your 50 million figure includes the eleven million illegals, and their crotch-fruit.

No, it is a statistic from long ago

Even if you were right, 10 million illegals still leaves 40 million uninsured American citizens. The facts don't add up to your claim.


Lol - math much?

Let's see how this works - you're losing money on 40 million uninsured people, and then you increase that loss by 20%

Nah - that won't hurt a bit!
 
2014-05-08 11:25:03 AM

The more you eat the more you fart: DrewCurtisJr: Bob Robert: Every hypocrite here complaining about illegals comes from the same type of immigrants.

You may want to think about that a little bit.

My grandparents were legal Irish immigrants.


My great-great grandparents were legal Irish immigrants also.

Back in those days, they really DID have a streamlined process to get people legal.  You would get off the boat, sign a paper, become a citizen, and join the army to go fight in the Civil War.

Fun times.
 
2014-05-08 11:26:53 AM
Animatronik

Through the 17th to 19th centuries, Americans has an attitude toward German, Irish, and Swedish immigrants that was similar to the attitude towards Mexicans today.

Fixed it for clarity. The concern always seems to be about non-white people. Though, to be fair, two of those groups (Germans and Irish) ended up outnumbering English Americans, so maybe that particular concern wasn't so silly...
 
2014-05-08 11:27:02 AM
unknownshooter:Let's see how this works - you're losing money on 40 million uninsured people, and then you increase that loss by 20%

Nah - that won't hurt a bit!


and your solution is....what? Round up and kick out all the illegal immigrants(at enormous cost) to solve 20% of a problem that has it's root cause somewhere else?
 
2014-05-08 11:27:19 AM

You Are All Sheep: violentsalvation: TuteTibiImperes: Let's make this easy and just get on with amnesty already.

I'm for this, with a path to citizenship five or ten years down the road. We need to stop pretending these people don't exist, or that they deserve to live in the shadows and off the books. It is wrong to exploit their lack of labor rights simply because they have no legal recourse, and it is wrong to have INS go in and break up families and send people who want to be American citizens "home" just because. We can't keep these people out, we've tried.

I have respect for the people who come here legally, but it is hard to not have respect for someone who sets out through the desert, facing dehydration and death, spending every peso to their name paying some murderous cartel coyote to get them past the checkpoints for a slim chance at the American dream. If that person isn't crooked or criminal then I'd say they passed the test, a fine addition to our country. And since we can't stop them, we should at least learn their names and give them some residency paperwork.

so what laws can we just get around then?  how many other countries have an issue w/ illegal immigrants, and what do they do?

Is it THAT hard to come over her legally?  or are they doing it to avoid the costs of being a citizen?  Or because they are criminals?


If you want to come from a country like Mexico, the waiting list is current in the 15-25 year range. So yes, it is that hard. Don't have opinions on things you don't know about.
 
2014-05-08 11:27:38 AM

Voiceofreason01: Thunderpipes: No, that is a stupid lie, you know it.

nope there are at least a few posters here who have suggested shooting at immigrants and you yourself are a well known gun nut who's just looking for an excuse to murder someone.


Has nothing to do with color, which, by the way, most are white. But people breaking the law? Ya, arm the border. Without border security, nothign else matters.
 
2014-05-08 11:28:25 AM

Bob Robert: unknownshooter: Lol - math much?

Let's see how this works - you're losing money on 40 million uninsured people, and then you increase that loss by 20%

Nah - that won't hurt a bit!

Increase what loss? People have access to cheap insurance now, the old system is gone.


I'm certain all eleven million "undocumented" people have signed up for Obamacare and are paying their fair share of the bills..  <not>
 
2014-05-08 11:28:39 AM

badaboom: serial_crusher: Look, I'm as racist as the next guy, but it's not the DMV's job to care about your citizenship status.  Did you pass the driver's test?  Congratulations, you're licensed to drive.

Then why do they care if you are under 21? Those under 21 get a completely different drivers license. It's even vertical.


Agreed.  You should get separate credentials to establish your age, citizenship, eligibility to vote, concealed carry permit, etc.  Places that serve alcohol shouldn't necessarily accept a driver's license as proof that a person is over 21.

I could see the argument for condensing multple pieces of informaiton onto the same device though, so you don't have to carry a million plastic cards around.  You go to the age bureau and prove your age to them somehow, so they verify that you're over 16 and then you've satisfied the DMV's requirements.  As the age bureau's job is only to register your date of birth, they don't care whether you're a citizen either, as long as you have some document they recognize.
 
2014-05-08 11:29:05 AM

Transubstantive: You Are All Sheep: violentsalvation: TuteTibiImperes: Let's make this easy and just get on with amnesty already.

I'm for this, with a path to citizenship five or ten years down the road. We need to stop pretending these people don't exist, or that they deserve to live in the shadows and off the books. It is wrong to exploit their lack of labor rights simply because they have no legal recourse, and it is wrong to have INS go in and break up families and send people who want to be American citizens "home" just because. We can't keep these people out, we've tried.

I have respect for the people who come here legally, but it is hard to not have respect for someone who sets out through the desert, facing dehydration and death, spending every peso to their name paying some murderous cartel coyote to get them past the checkpoints for a slim chance at the American dream. If that person isn't crooked or criminal then I'd say they passed the test, a fine addition to our country. And since we can't stop them, we should at least learn their names and give them some residency paperwork.

so what laws can we just get around then?  how many other countries have an issue w/ illegal immigrants, and what do they do?

Is it THAT hard to come over her legally?  or are they doing it to avoid the costs of being a citizen?  Or because they are criminals?

If you want to come from a country like Mexico, the waiting list is current in the 15-25 year range. So yes, it is that hard. Don't have opinions on things you don't know about.


And it is not our problem. Maybe if they fixed their craphole of a country, they wouldn't need to infest ours.
 
2014-05-08 11:29:35 AM

Bob Robert: You don't have any numbers to how many do this, most are very scared, the majority who do drive have a stolen identity


You don't have any numbers to show how many a very scared.

Bob Robert: No I'm not. The Republican party base is European ancestors who all showed up on ships and were granted legal status. Then later on they all created racist and exclusive laws that limited how many citizens could apply from each country because they are the I GOT MINE FARK YOU types.


Yes you are. And it's not only Republican's who oppose illegal immigration. BTW have you looked up the Chinese exclusion act yet to learn something? While you are learning about the topic you don't seem to no much about look at an immigration poll or two.
 
2014-05-08 11:29:48 AM

Thunderpipes: So liberals want to completely abolish all immigration laws.

This will be fun.


It worked so well when Regan did  it.....

People who enter a country illegally should not be granted citizenship.  We need to secure the boarders and enforce current immagration law before we even begin to discuss an amenesty program.
 
2014-05-08 11:29:51 AM

charlesmartel11235: nunyadang: I do not know what the answer is but the whole situation is a colossal  fark up.

We spends hundreds of millions of dollars funding agencies whose purpose is to stop people from entering the country illegally.

Then we spend hundreds of millions of dollars on agencies to help the illegal immigrants once they arrive.

It is so ridiculously counter intuitive that only the government can do it

My 2 cents

1 find a way to secure the border
2 once the border is secure figure out plan to either deport or grant amnesty to those here.
3 adjust the immigration numbers to ensure an adequate work force. I mean someone needs to work to pay taxes to support the lazy Americans not working.
4 try to ensure that Mexico continues to grow economically to lesser the need for thier citizens to leave.


That is my rough plan. If anyone from the Obama Administration has any questions, hit me up on Fark, I am sure we can figure something out.

1 is pretty hard. There's a whole lot of border


The air force and marines need to practice bombing runs. Sounds like a perfect deterrent.
 
2014-05-08 11:30:10 AM
They're here. If we deport them all, they'll all be back within a month. They're going to drive, one way or the other, because there's precious little public transportation in most of America. It's just simple pragmatism to offer the opportunity to be licensed and insured, so that they can pay for their own farking car accidents, instead of making everyone else do so. It's amazing how many people just refuse to operate in the real world, and instead prefer to pretend that Rush Limbaugh's "The world as it ought to be!" is realistic or attainable.
 
2014-05-08 11:30:16 AM

Khellendros: So again I say - your understanding of labor pools and nominal tax rates is astounding.  Translation - you don't know what the fark you're talking about, and you're trying to wiggle out of it by claiming I'm moving goalposts.


I posted a tax rate (lets call it the tax on milk) and this is garbage to claim this is 'paying taxes' the same as someone paying 28% and you jump in and claim someones knowledge of nominal tax rates is astounding.
The point is that claiming they pay their taxes because some worker at 7-11 MAY collect a sales tax is disingenuous.

Tell me.  What is the nominal income tax rate of someone who has income, but no taxable income.
 
2014-05-08 11:30:32 AM

violentsalvation: TuteTibiImperes: Let's make this easy and just get on with amnesty already.

I'm for this, with a path to citizenship five or ten years down the road. We need to stop pretending these people don't exist, or that they deserve to live in the shadows and off the books. It is wrong to exploit their lack of labor rights simply because they have no legal recourse, and it is wrong to have INS go in and break up families and send people who want to be American citizens "home" just because. We can't keep these people out, we've tried.

I have respect for the people who come here legally, but it is hard to not have respect for someone who sets out through the desert, facing dehydration and death, spending every peso to their name paying some murderous cartel coyote to get them past the checkpoints for a slim chance at the American dream. If that person isn't crooked or criminal then I'd say they passed the test, a fine addition to our country. And since we can't stop them, we should at least learn their names and give them some residency paperwork.


Yes, the ones that come here to work should be offered temporary worker status to start with. This would be enough to get them on the books, where they would be paying taxes and have basic legal protections. Then, offer them the ability to earn permanent resident status after 2 years, and full citizenship if they work and live here for 5-10 consecutive years.

But here is the catch: If you want to remain in the country legally, you have to remain employed at least 9 months out of the year, until you have earned full citizenship. The ones who come here to live off charity or public assistance loopholes should be shipped back to their old country. anchor babies be damned.

But, in the end, that is all I ask for. If you want to come to this country, then you are welcome as long as you are willing to work.
 
2014-05-08 11:31:43 AM

brimed03: GrizzlyPouch: violentsalvation: TuteTibiImperes: Let's make this easy and just get on with amnesty already.

I'm for this, with a path to citizenship five or ten years down the road. We need to stop pretending these people don't exist, or that they deserve to live in the shadows and off the books. It is wrong to exploit their lack of labor rights simply because they have no legal recourse, and it is wrong to have INS go in and break up families and send people who want to be American citizens "home" just because. We can't keep these people out, we've tried.

I have respect for the people who come here legally, but it is hard to not have respect for someone who sets out through the desert, facing dehydration and death, spending every peso to their name paying some murderous cartel coyote to get them past the checkpoints for a slim chance at the American dream. If that person isn't crooked or criminal then I'd say they passed the test, a fine addition to our country. And since we can't stop them, we should at least learn their names and give them some residency paperwork.

So if I broke into your house house and stole something valuable from you'd be ok with it and have respect for me because it's kind of a tough thing to do and there are consequences if I get caught?

The problem here is your assumption that there's going to be stealing. That's a pretty breathtaking, not to mention racist assumption.

Going with Farker BMFPitt's upthread correction on this example, "your house" is shared with 300 million friends. Many of whom just want to invite their friends over. And extending this to my point about your assumptions, like many house guests immigrants are far more likely to clean the house's shared kitchen as a thank-you than to steal your stereo. Citation: tons of well-reviewed, independent studies that I wouldn't bother to link even if I wasn't on mobile because you wouldn't read them anyway. Facts have no place in your weltanschaaung, or you wouldn't still be arguing this shiat.


You're assuming I'm not in favor of relaxing immigration laws. I'm not in favor of the speed limit being 70 either doesn't mean I think people who speed should be exempt from fines

My point was laws are laws, and breaking them is not something that should earn respect.
 
2014-05-08 11:34:28 AM

Johhny Wad: Thunderpipes: So liberals want to completely abolish all immigration laws.

This will be fun.

It worked so well when Regan did  it.....

People who enter a country illegally should not be granted citizenship.  We need to secure the boarders and enforce current immagration law before we even begin to discuss an amenesty program.


Never happen. Illegals actually have more rights here than we do now. Democrats need their votes. eventually, amnesty will happen, conservatives will never win another national election, and the country is pretty much done.

Because you know next on the list will be affirmative action programs that penalize whites further. Quotas in government. Mass discrimination, and an absolute explosion in welfare and crime, like we are not bad enough as it is.

17 trillion in debt? We will shoot for 100 trillion in debt withing the next 50 years. Do liberals understand math enough to compute interest?
 
2014-05-08 11:35:08 AM
You Are All Sheep:

Is it THAT hard to come over her legally?  or are they doing it to avoid the costs of being a citizen?  Or because they are criminals?

Umm Yes. Yes it is.


http://immigrationroad.com/green-card/immigration-flowchart-roadmap- to -green-card.pdf

Or if you want the simple breakdown..

http://wikifreccia.wikispaces.com/file/view/immigration%20graphic.jp g/ 347266900/immigration%20graphic.jpg
 
2014-05-08 11:35:09 AM

fatandolder: Cold_Sassy: fatandolder: Bob Robert: Cold_Sassy: You know what? They don't. That's the problem. They're here ILLEGALLY.

You can't just create a new system after over a hundred years of allowing anyone to enter and become citizens and then complain that the new people don't follow the ridiculous and burdensome rules. Your ancestors showed up on the shores and were automatically made citizens. You are a hypocrite for demanding more of anyone else.

My ancestors went through a legal process to become US citizen. I do not understand the hypocrisy you speak of.

You just answered your own question.

I think I was going for Bob Robert.


Oops, sorry.
 
2014-05-08 11:36:41 AM

bigworld2000: I find it intriguing that the people most concerned with invasive plants coming in and taking over are often big supporters of immigrants. And those people who don't give a damn about invasive species are overly paranoid about human immigration.

[img.fark.net image 160x160]


Wow, it's only 10:30, and I'm going to put money on this being the dumbest thing I will hear all day.
 
2014-05-08 11:36:55 AM

Voiceofreason01: unknownshooter:Let's see how this works - you're losing money on 40 million uninsured people, and then you increase that loss by 20%

Nah - that won't hurt a bit!

and your solution is....what? Round up and kick out all the illegal immigrants(at enormous cost) to solve 20% of a problem that has it's root cause somewhere else?


Yes.  Deny them housing, healthcare, driver's licenses & offer them nothing except a bus ticket out of the country.

The only reason "getting tough" never worked, is because we never even tried to "get tough" - Landlords can be required to get a real I.D. from the people they're renting to.  Law Enforcement can pretty easily detain those they encounter - and checking to see if there are two people using the same social-security number at the same time for an employer is kinda simple.  It's a mess at first, but it gets easier as the herd of criminals gets smaller and smaller.

No bank accounts, no mortgages, no jobs, no licenses, no rentals - and a trip to the ER results in a patch-job and a trip home.
 
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