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(SacBee)   The U.S. government has a problem with states handing out driver licenses to illegal immigrants. Hey Feds, you might want to look into the crime of Sanctuary Cities while you're at it   (blogs.sacbee.com) divider line 388
    More: Spiffy, U.S. government, illegal immigrants, United States, driver's licenses, federal Department of Homeland Security, identity document, DMV  
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5769 clicks; posted to Main » on 08 May 2014 at 10:04 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



388 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-05-08 01:01:29 AM  
Let's make this easy and just get on with amnesty already.
 
2014-05-08 02:06:16 AM  
I've been assured by Commander Sisko that the Sanctuary Districts are an essential part of achieving the next golden age.

Stop farking with the temporal prime directive Subby
 
2014-05-08 02:32:37 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: Let's make this easy and just get on with amnesty already.


I'm for this, with a path to citizenship five or ten years down the road. We need to stop pretending these people don't exist, or that they deserve to live in the shadows and off the books. It is wrong to exploit their lack of labor rights simply because they have no legal recourse, and it is wrong to have INS go in and break up families and send people who want to be American citizens "home" just because. We can't keep these people out, we've tried.

I have respect for the people who come here legally, but it is hard to not have respect for someone who sets out through the desert, facing dehydration and death, spending every peso to their name paying some murderous cartel coyote to get them past the checkpoints for a slim chance at the American dream. If that person isn't crooked or criminal then I'd say they passed the test, a fine addition to our country. And since we can't stop them, we should at least learn their names and give them some residency paperwork.
 
2014-05-08 09:05:31 AM  
While we're at it can we require all employees of gov't agencies in public service jobs be able to speak engrish?
 
2014-05-08 09:15:10 AM  
no opinion but I'd love to see y'all try to rope bored white teenagers into picking strawberries for 35 cents a pound
 
2014-05-08 09:29:47 AM  
At least they will be able to vote if we get them all drivers licenses. So, that's a good thing.
 
2014-05-08 10:05:52 AM  
You mean like Dalaran or Shattarath?
 
2014-05-08 10:06:17 AM  
I'd rather they drive without licenses, because 'Murrica.
 
2014-05-08 10:07:17 AM  
Which planets are these aliens from, and why doesn't the government to tell us that we have been invaded?
 
2014-05-08 10:07:26 AM  

eyemarten: You mean like Dalaran or Shattarath?


I think it's probably more like the Argent Tourney.  I mean, no way Alliance citizens are sweeping up the Yeti dung.
 
2014-05-08 10:08:49 AM  
Query.

Does anyone seriously think that not having a driver's license would prevent an illegal immigrant from driving?

eyemarten: You mean like Dalaran or Shattarath?


Imma let you finish, but Dalaran was the greatest sanctuary city of all time. OF ALL TIME.
 
2014-05-08 10:09:10 AM  

violentsalvation: TuteTibiImperes: Let's make this easy and just get on with amnesty already.

I'm for this, with a path to citizenship five or ten years down the road. We need to stop pretending these people don't exist, or that they deserve to live in the shadows and off the books. It is wrong to exploit their lack of labor rights simply because they have no legal recourse, and it is wrong to have INS go in and break up families and send people who want to be American citizens "home" just because. We can't keep these people out, we've tried.

I have respect for the people who come here legally, but it is hard to not have respect for someone who sets out through the desert, facing dehydration and death, spending every peso to their name paying some murderous cartel coyote to get them past the checkpoints for a slim chance at the American dream. If that person isn't crooked or criminal then I'd say they passed the test, a fine addition to our country. And since we can't stop them, we should at least learn their names and give them some residency paperwork.


so what laws can we just get around then?  how many other countries have an issue w/ illegal immigrants, and what do they do?

Is it THAT hard to come over her legally?  or are they doing it to avoid the costs of being a citizen?  Or because they are criminals?
 
2014-05-08 10:09:32 AM  
Illegal immigrants do not deserve a driver's license.  They're not even supposed to farking be here, and drain resources from people who have a legitimate claim to them.  This is bullsh*t..
 
2014-05-08 10:09:53 AM  

charlesmartel11235: no opinion but I'd love to see y'all try to rope bored white teenagers into picking strawberries for 35 cents a pound


So, at about 100 pounds a young blonde one would run me about $35? Oh, you said ROPE
nevermind
 
2014-05-08 10:10:13 AM  

violentsalvation: TuteTibiImperes: Let's make this easy and just get on with amnesty already.

I'm for this, with a path to citizenship five or ten years down the road. We need to stop pretending these people don't exist, or that they deserve to live in the shadows and off the books. It is wrong to exploit their lack of labor rights simply because they have no legal recourse, and it is wrong to have INS go in and break up families and send people who want to be American citizens "home" just because. We can't keep these people out, we've tried.

I have respect for the people who come here legally, but it is hard to not have respect for someone who sets out through the desert, facing dehydration and death, spending every peso to their name paying some murderous cartel coyote to get them past the checkpoints for a slim chance at the American dream. If that person isn't crooked or criminal then I'd say they passed the test, a fine addition to our country. And since we can't stop them, we should at least learn their names and give them some residency paperwork.


Why would anyone bother to come here legally then? Just jump the fence, get free citizenship, free stuff.

Why bother to have immigration laws at all?
 
2014-05-08 10:10:30 AM  
TuteTibiImperes [TotalFark]
(favorite: 8237306-supports free speech zones)


Let's make this easy and just get on with amnesty already.

ROTFLMAO

Breaking and entering = Rewards!
Desire to exercise your right to free speech? = Get in the 'free speech cage" where nobody can hear you!

liberal logic.
 
2014-05-08 10:11:18 AM  

violentsalvation: I'm for this, with a path to citizenship five or ten years down the road. We need to stop pretending these people don't exist, or that they deserve to live in the shadows and off the books.


Well, they deserve to live in their home country, until they get their visitation papers approved.
 
2014-05-08 10:11:39 AM  
Um, TFA seems to suggest that the problem isn't giving out the licenses, just what they look like...
 
2014-05-08 10:12:04 AM  

charlesmartel11235: no opinion but I'd love to see y'all try to rope bored white teenagers into picking strawberries for 35 cents a pound


Just put a "Pick your own" sign up and you'll have suburban moms and kids lining up to pay you!
 
2014-05-08 10:12:43 AM  

Cold_Sassy: Illegal immigrants do not deserve a driver's license.


Why do you think that would prevent them from driving? What resources does saying "Ok, you're allowed to drive" drain?
 
2014-05-08 10:12:52 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: Let's make this easy and just get on with amnesty already.


Hey mang, they cut the line.  They're lawbreakers!  Nevermind that we created the line in the first place by creating quotas on how many people from each country can enter each year.  LAWBREAKERS!  MISCREANTS!
 
2014-05-08 10:12:56 AM  

You Are All Sheep: violentsalvation: TuteTibiImperes: Let's make this easy and just get on with amnesty already.

I'm for this, with a path to citizenship five or ten years down the road. We need to stop pretending these people don't exist, or that they deserve to live in the shadows and off the books. It is wrong to exploit their lack of labor rights simply because they have no legal recourse, and it is wrong to have INS go in and break up families and send people who want to be American citizens "home" just because. We can't keep these people out, we've tried.

I have respect for the people who come here legally, but it is hard to not have respect for someone who sets out through the desert, facing dehydration and death, spending every peso to their name paying some murderous cartel coyote to get them past the checkpoints for a slim chance at the American dream. If that person isn't crooked or criminal then I'd say they passed the test, a fine addition to our country. And since we can't stop them, we should at least learn their names and give them some residency paperwork.

so what laws can we just get around then?  how many other countries have an issue w/ illegal immigrants, and what do they do?

Is it THAT hard to come over her legally?  or are they doing it to avoid the costs of being a citizen?  Or because they are criminals?


There is a chance many become criminals because they can't get a decent job because they don't have residency paperwork because it takes an inordinate amount of time and money to gain full citizenship and while this might be the "Land of the Free", you still have to make money somehow to survive.
 
2014-05-08 10:13:01 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: Let's make this easy and just get on with amnesty already.


That's a band aid.

We need to fix the actual problem.

Remove the quotas.
 
2014-05-08 10:14:07 AM  

Cold_Sassy: Illegal immigrants do not deserve a driver's license.  They're not even supposed to farking be here, and drain resources from people who have a legitimate claim to them.  This is bullsh*t..


You're right.  It's not like they pay sales/consumer taxes, add labor to the economy, do jobs no one else wants, pay rent, purchase or consumer goods, and all without having access to things like social security, unemployment, or any other federal or state benefits.

Yeah, they're such resource drains.
 
2014-05-08 10:14:19 AM  

violentsalvation: send people who want to be American citizens "home" just because.


They arent sending them home 'just because', they get send home because they came illegally.

If someone broke in to your house, can they be prohibited from being removed by asserting that you want them out of your house 'just because' ?  No.  It is because they have no permission to be there.
 
2014-05-08 10:14:44 AM  

charlesmartel11235: no opinion but I'd love to see y'all try to rope bored white teenagers into picking strawberries for 35 cents a pound


They could make a machine to do it, but a machine doesn't make the owner feel smug and superior when yelling and belittling a inanimate object.
 
2014-05-08 10:15:06 AM  
The REAL ID Act, passed in 2005, established minimum standards for drivers licenses and stipulated that licenses for residents without legal status must bear a distinctive marking.

You mean something like this?

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-05-08 10:15:27 AM  

Thunderpipes: Why would anyone bother to come here legally then? Just jump the fence, get free citizenship, free stuff.


The problem with that is free stuff.  Maybe you should focus on that problem and not the unrelated one.
 
2014-05-08 10:16:08 AM  
Yes, how dare they make licenses for non-citizens visually distinct from licenses for citizens and legal residents.

/non-issue
//move the fark on
 
2014-05-08 10:16:24 AM  

Cold_Sassy: Illegal immigrants do not deserve a driver's license.  They're not even supposed to farking be here, and drain resources from people who have a legitimate claim to them.  This is bullsh*t..


You have more of a claim to resources because your mom shot her crotchfruit out on the right side of the border?
 
2014-05-08 10:16:26 AM  
Read the article to find out why getting rear ended by an uninsured illegal alien was better that by an insured illegal alien with a valid driver's licence.  And why the federal government wanted that so my insurance rates to go up.
 
2014-05-08 10:18:33 AM  

violentsalvation: I have respect for the people who come here legally, but it is hard to not have respect for someone who sets out through the desert, facing dehydration and death, spending every peso to their name paying some murderous cartel coyote to get them past the checkpoints for a slim chance at the American dream. If that person isn't crooked or criminal then I'd say they passed the test, a fine addition to our country. And since we can't stop them, we should at least learn their names and give them some residency paperwork.


This should be quoted often and agreed with.
 
2014-05-08 10:19:02 AM  
1. The feds don't really "have a problem" with it, they're just saying it won't be a DHS-recognized form of ID. Big deal.

2. CA passed a law requiring something to be put in place without thinking about the practicalities of implementation? Color me shocked.

3. Those of you who equate illegal immigration to an actual "crime" are idiots. No one's rights are being violated by someone being here without proper approval and documentation. It's a procedural violation, and should be handled as a civil rather than criminal matter. However, I'm willing to concede your point if you all agree that things like not getting a proper permit for your deck or waiting too long to re-register your car should also result in a SWAT team bearing down on you to send your lilly white ass to PMITA prison.
 
2014-05-08 10:19:31 AM  
Liberals want amnesty for Illegal Immigrants to sign them up as democrat voters. Film at 11.
 
2014-05-08 10:19:42 AM  
I do not know what the answer is but the whole situation is a colossal  fark up.

We spends hundreds of millions of dollars funding agencies whose purpose is to stop people from entering the country illegally.

Then we spend hundreds of millions of dollars on agencies to help the illegal immigrants once they arrive.

It is so ridiculously counter intuitive that only the government can do it

My 2 cents

1 find a way to secure the border
2 once the border is secure figure out plan to either deport or grant amnesty to those here.
3 adjust the immigration numbers to ensure an adequate work force. I mean someone needs to work to pay taxes to support the lazy Americans not working.
4 try to ensure that Mexico continues to grow economically to lesser the need for thier citizens to leave.


That is my rough plan. If anyone from the Obama Administration has any questions, hit me up on Fark, I am sure we can figure something out.
 
2014-05-08 10:19:47 AM  

pueblonative: Cold_Sassy: Illegal immigrants do not deserve a driver's license.  They're not even supposed to farking be here, and drain resources from people who have a legitimate claim to them.  This is bullsh*t..

You have more of a claim to resources because your mom shot her crotchfruit out on the right side of the border?


x1.fjcdn.com
 
2014-05-08 10:20:21 AM  

BitwiseShift: Read the article to find out why getting rear ended by an uninsured illegal alien was better that by an insured illegal alien with a valid driver's licence.  And why the federal government wanted that so my insurance rates to go up.


Exactly this.  It has nothing to do with making Illegals citizens, or a pathway to amnesty.  It has EVERYTHING to do with Insurance rates, plain and simple.
 
2014-05-08 10:20:23 AM  

Nutsac_Jim: If someone broke in to your house, can they be prohibited from being removed by asserting that you want them out of your house 'just because' ?  No.  It is because they have no permission to be there.


The problem being that you share the house with 300 million roommates and you want to be able to kick their friends who were invited out.
 
2014-05-08 10:20:47 AM  
Why don't we just do away with the concept of citizenship altogether and just open our borders to anyone and everyone to come here and do as they please? Which is another way of asking when we lost our farking minds about illegal immigration? It isn't a left vs right issue and never has been.
 
2014-05-08 10:20:50 AM  

OnlyM3: TuteTibiImperes [TotalFark]
(favorite: 8237306-supports free speech zones)


Let's make this easy and just get on with amnesty already.
ROTFLMAO

Breaking and entering = Rewards!
Desire to exercise your right to free speech? = Get in the 'free speech cage" where nobody can hear you!

liberal logic.


Amen, brother.
 
2014-05-08 10:21:14 AM  

BMFPitt: TuteTibiImperes: Let's make this easy and just get on with amnesty already.

That's a band aid.

We need to fix the actual problem.

Remove the quotas.

limits

I think that is more where you meant to go.
 
2014-05-08 10:22:06 AM  

violentsalvation: TuteTibiImperes: Let's make this easy and just get on with amnesty already.

I'm for this, with a path to citizenship five or ten years down the road. We need to stop pretending these people don't exist, or that they deserve to live in the shadows and off the books. It is wrong to exploit their lack of labor rights simply because they have no legal recourse, and it is wrong to have INS go in and break up families and send people who want to be American citizens "home" just because. We can't keep these people out, we've tried.

I have respect for the people who come here legally, but it is hard to not have respect for someone who sets out through the desert, facing dehydration and death, spending every peso to their name paying some murderous cartel coyote to get them past the checkpoints for a slim chance at the American dream. If that person isn't crooked or criminal then I'd say they passed the test, a fine addition to our country. And since we can't stop them, we should at least learn their names and give them some residency paperwork.


So if I broke into your house house and stole something valuable from you'd be ok with it and have respect for me because it's kind of a tough thing to do and there are consequences if I get caught?
 
2014-05-08 10:23:22 AM  
Yo, por ejemplo, la bienvenida a nuestros nuevos amos Mexicanos.
 
2014-05-08 10:23:36 AM  

pueblonative: You have more of a claim to resources because your mom shot her crotchfruit out on the right side of the border?


So I should just be able to go to Mexico and become a Mexican citizen if I want?  Of Germany, or Great Britain?

Mein Fuhrer I Can Walk: Yes, how dare they make licenses for non-citizens visually distinct from licenses for citizens and legal residents.


This is the part of the article I can't understand.  People are afraid the marking on the license will be a 'Scarlet Letter' for the person carrying it?  It should.  They are doing something illegal.  The thing I don't understand is how these people can walk around with their giant balls.  They basically go into a government building, admit that they are there illegally and ask for a driver's license?  Shouldn't they get deported as soon as they walk in the building?
 
2014-05-08 10:24:11 AM  

Solty Dog: At least they will be able to vote if we get them all drivers licenses. So, that's a good thing.


and qualify for in-state tuition.
 
2014-05-08 10:24:25 AM  
I find it intriguing that the people most concerned with invasive plants coming in and taking over are often big supporters of immigrants. And those people who don't give a damn about invasive species are overly paranoid about human immigration.

img.fark.net
 
2014-05-08 10:24:32 AM  
I think this is a great idea.

If it makes them all move to California.
 
2014-05-08 10:24:42 AM  

nunyadang: I do not know what the answer is but the whole situation is a colossal  fark up.

We spends hundreds of millions of dollars funding agencies whose purpose is to stop people from entering the country illegally.

Then we spend hundreds of millions of dollars on agencies to help the illegal immigrants once they arrive.

It is so ridiculously counter intuitive that only the government can do it

My 2 cents

1 find a way to secure the border
2 once the border is secure figure out plan to either deport or grant amnesty to those here.
3 adjust the immigration numbers to ensure an adequate work force. I mean someone needs to work to pay taxes to support the lazy Americans not working.
4 try to ensure that Mexico continues to grow economically to lesser the need for thier citizens to leave.


That is my rough plan. If anyone from the Obama Administration has any questions, hit me up on Fark, I am sure we can figure something out.


1 is pretty hard. There's a whole lot of border
 
2014-05-08 10:25:03 AM  

JackieRabbit: Which is another way of asking when we lost our farking minds about illegal immigration?


About the time immigrants stopped being mostly European and started being mostly Asian and Hispanic.
 
2014-05-08 10:26:22 AM  

qorkfiend: Cold_Sassy: Illegal immigrants do not deserve a driver's license.

Why do you think that would prevent them from driving? What resources does saying "Ok, you're allowed to drive" drain?


It doesn't.  So what's the difference, except for another crapload of our tax dollars are going toward a 'license' for illegal aliens?  I object to that.
 
2014-05-08 10:26:39 AM  

Mein Fuhrer I Can Walk: pueblonative: Cold_Sassy: Illegal immigrants do not deserve a driver's license.  They're not even supposed to farking be here, and drain resources from people who have a legitimate claim to them.  This is bullsh*t..

You have more of a claim to resources because your mom shot her crotchfruit out on the right side of the border?

[x1.fjcdn.com image 267x199]


Well legally and under the current system, Yes. Yes he does.
 
2014-05-08 10:26:43 AM  

qorkfiend: Query.

Does anyone seriously think that not having a driver's license would prevent an illegal immigrant from driving?



I have to have a driver's license and insurance to drive a car on public roads. Not having either on of those is not a deterrent to driving for an illegal alien. At least, that is what I glean from reading the news reports of hit and runs around here.
 
2014-05-08 10:26:57 AM  

qorkfiend: Query.

Does anyone seriously think that not having a driver's license would prevent an illegal immigrant from driving?


Sure as hell didn't stop the one who t-boned my cousin and ran, leaving her with a busted diaphragm (not that kind), guts going into the wrong spots, and busted bones everywhere.
 
2014-05-08 10:27:34 AM  

Cold_Sassy: Illegal immigrants do not deserve a driver's license.  They're not even supposed to farking be here, and drain resources from people who have a legitimate claim to them.  This is bullsh*t..


I would prefer that they actually take a driver's test though. Better they drain resources (roads?) from people than kill people because they can't recognize a stop sign.
 
2014-05-08 10:27:44 AM  

JackieRabbit: Why don't we just do away with the concept of citizenship altogether and just open our borders to anyone and everyone to come here and do as they please? Which is another way of asking when we lost our farking minds about illegal immigration? It isn't a left vs right issue and never has been.


You talk as if immigration has never been an issue before now...

media.liveauctiongroup.net
 
2014-05-08 10:27:53 AM  
I've got a real simple solution. It's been proven to work, too. Chances are, it worked for most of all our collective forefathers.

Ready? Here goes: Re-open Ellis Island.

Actually, I think there should be 4 facilities: New York, San Diego, Miami, and Laredo. Check the immigrant's health, run a quick background check, administer an oath, and, congratulations. You're American. Welcome to the Land of Opportunity.

It would cut down on illegal immigration real quick.
 
2014-05-08 10:28:02 AM  
Hmmmmmmmmmm. Hot Mexican girls.
 
2014-05-08 10:28:21 AM  

Cold_Sassy: qorkfiend: Cold_Sassy: Illegal immigrants do not deserve a driver's license.

Why do you think that would prevent them from driving? What resources does saying "Ok, you're allowed to drive" drain?

It doesn't.  So what's the difference, except for another crapload of our tax dollars are going toward a 'license' for illegal aliens?  I object to that.


They pay for those licenses, the same as how you and I pay for ours.
 
2014-05-08 10:28:28 AM  

Khellendros: Cold_Sassy: Illegal immigrants do not deserve a driver's license.  They're not even supposed to farking be here, and drain resources from people who have a legitimate claim to them.  This is bullsh*t..

You're right.  It's not like they pay sales/consumer taxes, add labor to the economy, do jobs no one else wants, pay rent, purchase or consumer goods, and all without having access to things like social security, unemployment, or any other federal or state benefits.

Yeah, they're such resource drains.


You know what?  They don't.  That's the problem.  They're here ILLEGALLY.
 
2014-05-08 10:29:37 AM  

cwheelie: charlesmartel11235: no opinion but I'd love to see y'all try to rope bored white teenagers into picking strawberries for 35 cents a pound

So, at about 100 pounds a young blonde one would run me about $35? Oh, you said ROPE
nevermind


That and the true payment is closer to 15-20 cents a bushel of Strawberries, and a bushel should weigh about 38-39 lbs. Therefore, we should be paying them about 1/2 cent per pound.
 
2014-05-08 10:29:51 AM  

Gonz: Check the immigrant's health, run a quick background check, administer an oath, and, congratulations. You're American. Welcome to the Land of Opportunity.


You forgot to fix their last names.

Rodrgiquez? You're now Rodgers.
Santana? You're now Smith.
Garcia? You're now Grady.
 
2014-05-08 10:30:54 AM  

Khellendros: Cold_Sassy: Illegal immigrants do not deserve a driver's license.  They're not even supposed to farking be here, and drain resources from people who have a legitimate claim to them.  This is bullsh*t..

You're right.  It's not like they pay sales/consumer taxes, add labor to the economy, do jobs no one else wants, pay rent, purchase or consumer goods, and all without having access to things like social security, unemployment, or any other federal or state benefits.

Yeah, they're such resource drains.


Is 4% = 32% ?   They do jobs nobody else is willing to work below minimum wage to do.  So, they do work nobody is willing to do simply because they are there affecting the worker pool.  That's a fantastic reason to keep them.
 
2014-05-08 10:31:29 AM  

BunkoSquad: JackieRabbit: Which is another way of asking when we lost our farking minds about illegal immigration?

About the time immigrants stopped being mostly European and started being mostly Asian and Hispanic.


An illegal European or Asian would be almost immediately deported if caught because they won't work for pennies on the dollar. Hispanics are our new Negroes and are being shamefully exploited. Meanwhile American citizens have a hard time finding work in the skilled trade because they won't build a house for $4/hr and work six 12 hour days each week.
 
2014-05-08 10:31:36 AM  

mjbok: The thing I don't understand is how these people can walk around with their giant balls. They basically go into a government building, admit that they are there illegally and ask for a driver's license?


Those who are brought here by their parents as infants are often never get told that they're illegal until they reach this rite of passage.
 
2014-05-08 10:32:01 AM  
FunkyBlue:

There is a chance many become criminals because they can't get a decent job because they don't have residency paperwork because it takes an inordinate amount of time and money to gain full citizenship and while this might be the "Land of the Free", you still have to make money somehow to survive.

Yeah - I know all about how long and expensive the process is to come here legally, the wife did it (from Canada) - it took years and cost thousands of dollars.

You wanna make it cheaper and easier to sneak in?

How about, " GTFO and don't let the door hit you in the ass? "
 
2014-05-08 10:32:11 AM  

pueblonative: Cold_Sassy: Illegal immigrants do not deserve a driver's license.  They're not even supposed to farking be here, and drain resources from people who have a legitimate claim to them.  This is bullsh*t..

You have more of a claim to resources because your mom shot her crotchfruit out on the right side of the border?


I'm talking about things like social security and medicare, for people who actually were born here and paid the taxes for it their whole lives.  Is that so hard to understand?  And, by the way I work for a living and don't lay claim to ANY handouts, I'm just tired of paying for people who don't and shouldn't even be in the farking country.  Got it?
 
2014-05-08 10:32:16 AM  

Gonz: Actually, I think there should be 4 facilities: New York, San Diego, Miami, and Laredo. Check the immigrant's health, run a quick background check, administer an oath, and, congratulations. You're American. Welcome to the Land of Opportunity.It would cut down on illegal immigration real quick.


Whoa now, Laredo is great for export businesses. Do you know what that'd do to the rates of getting material there to freight forwarders I work with?

Make it El Paso, no one cares about that city.
 
2014-05-08 10:33:14 AM  
 The federal government has rejected California's initial design for new driver's licenses to be offered to immigrants in the country illegally, saying the cards fall short of security safeguards.
That was close. Don't want to put those two words together back to back.

 
Read more here: http://blogs.sacbee.com/capitolalertlatest/2014/05/california-immigran t-license-design-rejected-by-homeland-security.html#storylink=cpyThe federal government has rejected California's initial design for new driver's licenses to be offered to immigrants in the country illegally, saying the cards fall short of security safeguards.
Read more here: http://blogs.sacbee.com/capitolalertlatest/2014/05/california-immigra n t-license-design-rejected-by-homeland-security.html#storylink=cpy
 
2014-05-08 10:33:36 AM  

monoski: Remove the quotas. limits
I think that is more where you meant to go.


Quotas can be either a minimum or a maximum.  That is the term that is actually used in immigration law, so that's what I used.
 
2014-05-08 10:33:54 AM  

Mein Fuhrer I Can Walk: pueblonative: Cold_Sassy: Illegal immigrants do not deserve a driver's license.  They're not even supposed to farking be here, and drain resources from people who have a legitimate claim to them.  This is bullsh*t..

You have more of a claim to resources because your mom shot her crotchfruit out on the right side of the border?

[x1.fjcdn.com image 267x199]


thank you :)
 
2014-05-08 10:34:17 AM  

Stone Meadow: The REAL ID Act, passed in 2005, established minimum standards for drivers licenses and stipulated that licenses for residents without legal status must bear a distinctive marking.

You mean something like this?

[upload.wikimedia.org image 531x480]


You are an idiot!
 
2014-05-08 10:34:56 AM  

charlesmartel11235: nunyadang: I do not know what the answer is but the whole situation is a colossal  fark up.

We spends hundreds of millions of dollars funding agencies whose purpose is to stop people from entering the country illegally.

Then we spend hundreds of millions of dollars on agencies to help the illegal immigrants once they arrive.

It is so ridiculously counter intuitive that only the government can do it

My 2 cents

1 find a way to secure the border
2 once the border is secure figure out plan to either deport or grant amnesty to those here.
3 adjust the immigration numbers to ensure an adequate work force. I mean someone needs to work to pay taxes to support the lazy Americans not working.
4 try to ensure that Mexico continues to grow economically to lesser the need for thier citizens to leave.


That is my rough plan. If anyone from the Obama Administration has any questions, hit me up on Fark, I am sure we can figure something out.

1 is pretty hard. There's a whole lot of border



wpmedia.arts.nationalpost.com

/has an idea
 
2014-05-08 10:35:03 AM  

FunkyBlue: You Are All Sheep: violentsalvation: TuteTibiImperes: Let's make this easy and just get on with amnesty already.

I'm for this, with a path to citizenship five or ten years down the road. We need to stop pretending these people don't exist, or that they deserve to live in the shadows and off the books. It is wrong to exploit their lack of labor rights simply because they have no legal recourse, and it is wrong to have INS go in and break up families and send people who want to be American citizens "home" just because. We can't keep these people out, we've tried.

I have respect for the people who come here legally, but it is hard to not have respect for someone who sets out through the desert, facing dehydration and death, spending every peso to their name paying some murderous cartel coyote to get them past the checkpoints for a slim chance at the American dream. If that person isn't crooked or criminal then I'd say they passed the test, a fine addition to our country. And since we can't stop them, we should at least learn their names and give them some residency paperwork.

so what laws can we just get around then?  how many other countries have an issue w/ illegal immigrants, and what do they do?

Is it THAT hard to come over her legally?  or are they doing it to avoid the costs of being a citizen?  Or because they are criminals?

There is a chance many become criminals because they can't get a decent job because they don't have residency paperwork because it takes an inordinate amount of time and money to gain full citizenship and while this might be the "Land of the Free", you still have to make money somehow to survive.


And yet, thousands of people from other countries, and very many whom are educated at that, wait 7-10 years to get proper documentation to become citizens here.  We should adopt Canada's requirements.
 
2014-05-08 10:35:15 AM  
Mein Fuhrer I Can Walk

You talk as if immigration has never been an issue before now...

Inb4 someone links to the professor that claims NINA was a myth.
 
2014-05-08 10:35:58 AM  

BMFPitt: Nutsac_Jim: If someone broke in to your house, can they be prohibited from being removed by asserting that you want them out of your house 'just because' ?  No.  It is because they have no permission to be there.

The problem being that you share the house with 300 million roommates and you want to be able to kick their friends who were invited out.


The roommate agreement clearly states no overnight guests, so they get kicked out.
 
2014-05-08 10:36:21 AM  
It's better when unlicensed drivers are on the road and the state cannot collect any fees from licensing.
 
2014-05-08 10:38:05 AM  

charlesmartel11235: no opinion but I'd love to see y'all try to rope bored white teenagers into picking strawberries for 35 cents a pound


let me tell ya bouth the rabbits george
 
2014-05-08 10:38:12 AM  
So how is it that these states can get Driver Licenses to Illegal's living in the shadows, but can get ID's to citizens to vote with?
 
2014-05-08 10:38:32 AM  
Maybe we will get a President who doesn't like murder laws. Then we can have sanctuary cities for murder! Yay!

Not like it is the President's job to, you know, make sure the laws are faithfully executed. Obamacare? Just change it or ignore it as you please. Immigration laws? Nah, who cares. Murder? Why not?

Why have laws at all, if you can ignore them as you please?
 
2014-05-08 10:38:37 AM  

BMFPitt: monoski: Remove the quotas. limits
I think that is more where you meant to go.

Quotas can be either a minimum or a maximum.  That is the term that is actually used in immigration law, so that's what I used.


Thanks, I read quota as target #
 
2014-05-08 10:39:06 AM  

Nutsac_Jim: The roommate agreement clearly states no overnight guests, so they get kicked out.


And that's what we are saying we should change.  Reading is fundamental.
 
2014-05-08 10:40:08 AM  

Bob Robert: Friction8r: Liberals want amnesty for Illegal Immigrants to sign them up as democrat voters. Film at 11.

Except according to so many Republicans, illegals are very religious and conservative, they just need to learn the Republican platform and then they will vote GOP.


Citation needed.
 
2014-05-08 10:40:42 AM  

Bob Robert: GrizzlyPouch: So if I broke into your house house and stole something valuable from you'd be ok with it and have respect for me because it's kind of a tough thing to do and there are consequences if I get caught?

Entering the country illegally is a misdemeanor and yet you are comparing it to breaking and entering?


Yes
 
2014-05-08 10:41:00 AM  

Bob Robert: GrizzlyPouch: So if I broke into your house house and stole something valuable from you'd be ok with it and have respect for me because it's kind of a tough thing to do and there are consequences if I get caught?

Entering the country illegally is a misdemeanor and yet you are comparing it to breaking and entering?



Overstaying a visa might be a misdemeanor, but forging documents so you can steal someone else's identity & work here, skipping out on paying taxes, leeching off public services etc add up to more than just one misdemeanor.

What is Mexico's penalty for skipping over the border?  What will the Canadians do if you try to take a job from a Canadian?  -> hint: it isn't nice..
 
2014-05-08 10:41:25 AM  

violentsalvation: And since we can't stop them, we should at least learn their names


Manuel Labor.
 
2014-05-08 10:41:46 AM  

Brick-House: So how is it that these states can get Driver Licenses to Illegal's living in the shadows, but can get ID's to citizens to vote with?


They're not actually forcing anyone to get a driver's license.
 
2014-05-08 10:41:58 AM  

Bob Robert: Your ancestors showed up on the shores and were automatically made citizens.


*Offer not valid for African Americans.*
 
2014-05-08 10:42:22 AM  

Bob Robert: Friction8r: Liberals want amnesty for Illegal Immigrants to sign them up as democrat voters. Film at 11.

Except according to so many Republicans, illegals are very religious and conservative, they just need to learn the Republican platform and then they will vote GOP.


Hispanic = Illegal?
 
2014-05-08 10:43:14 AM  

Thunderpipes: Why have laws at all, if you can ignore them as you please?


the illegals should just claim affluenza
 
2014-05-08 10:43:17 AM  

qorkfiend: Query.

Does anyone seriously think that not having a driver's license would prevent an illegal immigrant from driving?


Having been hit twice by the no habla english no insurance types no it doesn't but the big question is does it keep these undocumented democrats from voting?


I am for a conditional amnesty -guest worker /visa program that would but them at the very back of the line for any chance citizenship with the normal conditions for visa holders.  Of course those convicted of crimes get shipped back.




Child molester deported seven times, charged with DUI in Pa.

Plus increase border security to include armed troops with authority to shot back.




Mexican troops Invade US, Shoots Tucson Man

Read more at http://joeforamerica.com/2014/05/mexican-army-invades-us-shoots-tucson -man/#ZWi6d0YgLB4D6Fxk.99

Armed Mexicans Attack Unarmed National Guard Troops on US Soil
 
2014-05-08 10:43:39 AM  

Nutsac_Jim: Is 4% = 32% ? They do jobs nobody else is willing to work below minimum wage to do. So, they do work nobody is willing to do simply because they are there affecting the worker pool. That's a fantastic reason to keep them.


Your understanding of nominal tax rates and labor pools is astounding.
 
2014-05-08 10:43:39 AM  

unknownshooter: FunkyBlue:

There is a chance many become criminals because they can't get a decent job because they don't have residency paperwork because it takes an inordinate amount of time and money to gain full citizenship and while this might be the "Land of the Free", you still have to make money somehow to survive.

Yeah - I know all about how long and expensive the process is to come here legally, the wife did it (from Canada) - it took years and cost thousands of dollars.

You wanna make it cheaper and easier to sneak in?

How about, " GTFO and don't let the door hit you in the ass? "


GTFO hasn't worked. "Come on in everyone" hasn't worked either. Got a better solution? Everyone is interested.

The local newspaper ran an article a few years ago about different countries and their approach to immigration (illegal and legal) and they ran the gamete totally open border to totally closed and the answers really were about the same: nothing seemed to really work.

So let's stop being stupid children who want to see the world as black and white and start actually coming up with ideas. I've an idea. Let's start helping Mexico be a place that Mexicans want to live in. If it is a great place, they'll start wanting to stay. How many Americans do you see going to Mexico or Guatemala to live? I mean that they'd sneak across the desert and undergo hardships to live in those countries.
 
2014-05-08 10:43:53 AM  

charlesmartel11235: 1 is pretty hard. There's a whole lot of border


Not hard, just ridiculously expensive.  It's going to take a hell of a lot more than anything Republicans have ever proposed.
 
2014-05-08 10:44:00 AM  
NO, No, and no...  If they arrived in the US illegally then they're criminals, and should be prosecuted as criminals. Most countries would just throw you in jail.  Not the US - no - here you'll get rewarded.  There are plenty of people following the immigration rules, and it isn't like the US doesn't hire people in other countries and bring them to the US to work and live.  What does happen is that the illegal immigrants arrive in the US, work and get paid under the counter, allowing businesses to avoid paying the taxes or a fair wage, and the immigrants rarely become anything more than common serfs.  We're all for cheap labor.

Follow the money.
 
2014-05-08 10:44:11 AM  

Solty Dog: At least they will be able to vote if we get them all drivers licenses. So, that's a good thing.


A state driver license makes you a citizen?
 
2014-05-08 10:44:11 AM  

Khellendros: add labor to the economy, do jobs no one else wants


I don't suppose the reason nobody wants those jobs is that businesses have a large pool of cheap labor available to exploit.
 
2014-05-08 10:44:40 AM  

Harvey Manfrenjensenjen: 1. The feds don't really "have a problem" with it, they're just saying it won't be a DHS-recognized form of ID. Big deal.

2. CA passed a law requiring something to be put in place without thinking about the practicalities of implementation? Color me shocked.

3. Those of you who equate illegal immigration to an actual "crime" are idiots. No one's rights are being violated by someone being here without proper approval and documentation. It's a procedural violation, and should be handled as a civil rather than criminal matter. However, I'm willing to concede your point if you all agree that things like not getting a proper permit for your deck or waiting too long to re-register your car should also result in a SWAT team bearing down on you to send your lilly white ass to PMITA prison.


Illegal immigration is in fact a crime. A nonviolent, low level crime, but most definitely a crime. It's a crime in every major nation that requires passports and visas. That's why all of these countries arrest you if you run through a customs checkpoint.u

It's a non-violent crime but it most definitely has consequences for any developed country if they ignore it.

Also pretending that it's not illegal, and referring to them as "immigrants" just makes you look like a douchebag in the eyes of many. An immigrant is someone who arrived here with a passport and visa.
 
2014-05-08 10:44:54 AM  

Bob Robert: Cold_Sassy: You know what? They don't. That's the problem. They're here ILLEGALLY.

You can't just create a new system after over a hundred years of allowing anyone to enter and become citizens and then complain that the new people don't follow the ridiculous and burdensome rules. Your ancestors showed up on the shores and were automatically made citizens. You are a hypocrite for demanding more of anyone else.


My ancestors went through a legal process to become US citizen. I do not understand the hypocrisy you speak of.
 
2014-05-08 10:45:06 AM  

Bob Robert: Cold_Sassy: I'm talking about things like social security and medicare, for people who actually were born here and paid the taxes for it their whole lives. Is that so hard to understand? And, by the way I work for a living and don't lay claim to ANY handouts, I'm just tired of paying for people who don't and shouldn't even be in the farking country. Got it?

Fun fact every working illegal pays all those taxes because they are using someone elses identity but will never actually claim the benefits.


actually no..  they typically claim lots of dependents so there is no withholding, and there's a person behind all of those stolen identities that gets to explain themselves & deal with six kinds of hell (sometimes for years on end).
 
2014-05-08 10:45:38 AM  
Um...goverment isdued ID's to people who are not here legally and who probably do not carry car insurance since they cannot get a social security number?

Great idea!

While we're at it...amnesty for everybody!
 
2014-05-08 10:45:39 AM  

BMFPitt: Nutsac_Jim: The roommate agreement clearly states no overnight guests, so they get kicked out.

And that's what we are saying we should change.  Reading is fundamental.


Why change it.  It is perfect as it is.
 
2014-05-08 10:45:45 AM  

Capo Del Bandito: Gonz: Actually, I think there should be 4 facilities: New York, San Diego, Miami, and Laredo. Check the immigrant's health, run a quick background check, administer an oath, and, congratulations. You're American. Welcome to the Land of Opportunity.It would cut down on illegal immigration real quick.

Whoa now, Laredo is great for export businesses. Do you know what that'd do to the rates of getting material there to freight forwarders I work with?

Make it El Paso, no one cares about that city.


Look, I just needed somewhere fairly centrally located on the border. Laredo's got I-35, so there's infrastructure in place. Besides, if you put the facility in El Paso, people would say "I'd rather stay in my third-world nation than go there".

How 'bout we split the difference. Eagle Pass?
 
2014-05-08 10:46:12 AM  

BunkoSquad: JackieRabbit: Which is another way of asking when we lost our farking minds about illegal immigration?

About the time immigrants stopped being mostly Northern European and started being mostly Asian and Hispanic Italian and Slavic.


There, that's closer to how it happened.

Immigration Act of 1924 (from WP)
 
2014-05-08 10:47:06 AM  

Cold_Sassy: qorkfiend: Cold_Sassy: Illegal immigrants do not deserve a driver's license.

Why do you think that would prevent them from driving? What resources does saying "Ok, you're allowed to drive" drain?

It doesn't.  So what's the difference, except for another crapload of our tax dollars are going toward a 'license' for illegal aliens?  I object to that.


If they don't have a license, they CAN'T get insurance.  At least if they can get licenses, SOME of them will buy insurance.  And having an ID that illegals can BUY at the DMV won't drain a "crapload of our tax dollars".  It's no different than an ID card, or an "under 21" license.
 
2014-05-08 10:47:06 AM  

tricycleracer: I'd rather they drive without licenses, because 'Murrica.


I'd rather they don't drive at all .
 
2014-05-08 10:47:12 AM  

JoieD'Zen: While we're at it can we require all employees of gov't agencies in public service jobs be able to sprik engrish?


Who wonna second world war, you so smart?
 
2014-05-08 10:47:30 AM  

qorkfiend: Why do you think that would prevent them from driving?


If you would couple that with them actually being detained and deported when they are caught driving without a license and found out to be illegal immigrants it would prevent a lot of them from driving.
 
2014-05-08 10:47:30 AM  

charlesmartel11235: no opinion but I'd love to see y'all try to rope bored white teenagers into picking strawberries for 35 cents a pound


Relevant
 
2014-05-08 10:47:46 AM  

Cold_Sassy: Illegal immigrants do not deserve a driver's license.  They're not even supposed to farking be here, and drain resources from people who have a legitimate claim to them.  This is bullsh*t..


They're still going to be here and drive. You get to choose, do you want them untested, unlicensed, uninsured and driving or tested, licensed, insured and driving?

They're going to pay for the license and test like everyone else, so it's not free. I really don't see the issue, this improves safety.
 
2014-05-08 10:48:01 AM  
Let me tell you something about the Mexican. . .

/ducks.
 
2014-05-08 10:48:09 AM  

Stone Meadow: The REAL ID Act, passed in 2005, established minimum standards for drivers licenses and stipulated that licenses for residents without legal status must bear a distinctive marking.

You mean something like this?

[upload.wikimedia.org image 531x480]


Really? You think having a distinctly different license, something normally kept in a wallet, is the equivalent of labeling the Jews by the Nazis? Pathetic.

 You do realize that CA already has different licenses marked for different reasons. Like if you are under 21 your license is different.
 
2014-05-08 10:48:22 AM  

fatandolder: Bob Robert: Cold_Sassy: You know what? They don't. That's the problem. They're here ILLEGALLY.

You can't just create a new system after over a hundred years of allowing anyone to enter and become citizens and then complain that the new people don't follow the ridiculous and burdensome rules. Your ancestors showed up on the shores and were automatically made citizens. You are a hypocrite for demanding more of anyone else.

My ancestors went through a legal process to become US citizen. I do not understand the hypocrisy you speak of.


You just answered your own question.
 
2014-05-08 10:48:45 AM  
Most illegals don't compete with me for jobs.  So sure, help them out.

Now if you really want to help the STEM workers out, get rid of the damn H1B visa program.
 
2014-05-08 10:48:53 AM  

charlesmartel11235: no opinion but I'd love to see y'all try to rope bored white teenagers into picking strawberries for 35 cents a pound


Uh. I did that when I was 13.
 
2014-05-08 10:49:07 AM  
Screw it, libs. If our laws don't matter and we just let in all the Mexicans that want to come in, then how about if the U.S. just goes ahead and annexes Mexico? That's right. Take over their country, develop the hell out of every resort community, and pillage all of their resources...ESPECIALLY oil?
 
2014-05-08 10:49:34 AM  

awshat: If they arrived in the US illegally then they're criminals


Being in the country illegally isn't a criminal offense, numbnuts. It's a civil offense.
 
2014-05-08 10:50:17 AM  

Joe USer: Cold_Sassy: Illegal immigrants do not deserve a driver's license.  They're not even supposed to farking be here, and drain resources from people who have a legitimate claim to them.  This is bullsh*t..

They're still going to be here and drive. You get to choose, do you want them untested, unlicensed, uninsured and driving or tested, licensed, insured and driving?

They're going to pay for the license and test like everyone else, so it's not free. I really don't see the issue, this improves safety.


I'm sure someone who is in the country illegally will TOTALLY buy and keep valid insurance.
 
2014-05-08 10:50:37 AM  

charlesmartel11235: no opinion but I'd love to see y'all try to rope bored white teenagers into picking strawberries for 35 cents a pound


The farm I get my strawberries from is picked by regular employees. Sure its about 20% more expensive than the store, but whatever. They wouldn't have to rope bored white teenagers into picking for 35 cents a pound. They'd offer them $10 an hour or so and would have plenty of applicants.
 
2014-05-08 10:50:38 AM  

Bob Robert: GrizzlyPouch: So if I broke into your house house and stole something valuable from you'd be ok with it and have respect for me because it's kind of a tough thing to do and there are consequences if I get caught?

Entering the country illegally is a misdemeanor and yet you are comparing it to breaking and entering?


Well, in some cases, B&E is also a misdemeanor (intent is the key), so he's got a point. I'm not sure I agree with him, but he's got a point.
 
2014-05-08 10:50:46 AM  
 

Khellendros: Nutsac_Jim: Is 4% = 32% ? They do jobs nobody else is willing to work below minimum wage to do. So, they do work nobody is willing to do simply because they are there affecting the worker pool. That's a fantastic reason to keep them.

Your understanding of nominal tax rates and labor pools is astounding.


As is your ability to move goalposts.  You do that as a 1099, or get paid under the table?
 
2014-05-08 10:51:02 AM  
Anybody here tried to get a license renewed lately?
-- Proof of citizenship: Birth certificate that meets a checklist of criteria for validity -- if it doesn't meet them, you have to order a new one.
-- Proof of legal residence.
-- Proof of legal presence.

blah blah blah.

CSB:
Went to apply for a new passport.
I had my old, long-expired one with me along with my birth certificate, which was issued back when the Earth was cooling. The clerk wouldn't use my BC as proof of citizenship, but she used my old passport that expired more than 15 years ago. I had obtained that expired passport using another expired passport, which was obtained using another expired passport, which I had obtained using ... the very same birth certificate I had in hand. So anyway. Passport applied for, all was well, and after we finished the submission process, I asked the clerk why some birth certificates weren't accepted anymore.
She pointed out some patriotastic law passed in 2011 that sets out the criteria for a valid birth certificate.
We went down the list and my BC had all of the required features. Go figure.

The more you know...
 
2014-05-08 10:52:11 AM  

Bob Robert: Fun fact every working illegal pays all those taxes because they are using someone elses identity but will never actually claim the benefits.


Right no benefits, who do you think pays when they go to the hospital?
 
2014-05-08 10:52:12 AM  

Bob Robert: unknownshooter: Bob Robert: GrizzlyPouch: So if I broke into your house house and stole something valuable from you'd be ok with it and have respect for me because it's kind of a tough thing to do and there are consequences if I get caught?

Entering the country illegally is a misdemeanor and yet you are comparing it to breaking and entering?


Overstaying a visa might be a misdemeanor, but forging documents so you can steal someone else's identity & work here, skipping out on paying taxes, leeching off public services etc add up to more than just one misdemeanor.

What is Mexico's penalty for skipping over the border?  What will the Canadians do if you try to take a job from a Canadian?  -> hint: it isn't nice..

Skipping out on paying taxes, wrong. They pay taxes.

Leeching public services? What services do they use? Do you think they apply for food stamps and social security?

Another kid of immigrants who just showed up wants to make it harder for a new generation, typical of the conservative "I got mine" mentality


Not at all - My wife went through the process *legally*, it took many years, and cost thousands of dollars - and she is highly educated and an asset to this country.

As for leeching public services - one local hospital closed their maternity ward because the illegals were bankrupting the hospital.

http://womensenews.org/story/medicine/110120/hospital-maternity-ward s- are-closing-across-us#.U2uZz1e9Z2w
 
2014-05-08 10:52:22 AM  

Dr Jack Badofsky: And yet, thousands of people from other countries, and very many whom are educated at that, wait 7-10 years to get proper documentation to become citizens here. We should adopt Canada's requirements.


I'm glad they decided to come here out of choice and with the means to support themselves and not out of desperation to feed their families and themselves because their origin country has large areas of massive shiat holes. Shiat hole enough that the poor wages they're paid under the table to work a field trump whatever honest work they could find down there. A lot of them want to come here to better themselves or their their families. That's exactly why many other immigrants from several other countries came here. I don't see why we make it so expensive to be a part of this country so that so many have to sneak in. They are no different then others that come here legally with the exception that those others were successful in their own country enough to be able to afford to come here.

And that's it. It comes down to money. Not fences, not security. Money. You don't have money, we don't want you here.
 
2014-05-08 10:52:52 AM  

SpdrJay: Which planets are these aliens from, and why doesn't the government to tell us that we have been invaded?


If you're talking space aliens, i.e., another species, then the word is infested, not invaded
 
2014-05-08 10:52:53 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: Let's make this easy and just get on with amnesty already.


Its progressive and pro-Reagan.  Everybody wins.
 
2014-05-08 10:53:32 AM  

RottenEggs: tricycleracer: I'd rather they drive without licenses, because 'Murrica.

I'd rather they don't drive at all .


So would most people (except the employers who enjoy having the cheap day-laborers and are tired of driving to Home Depot to pick them up in the morning) but just denying the fact that they do drive is not a valid option. If we give them a path to license and purchase insurance we could reduce the impact/cost of accidents.
 
2014-05-08 10:53:37 AM  
so is anyone checking their immunization records when they jump the fence?
 
2014-05-08 10:53:49 AM  
said it before and will do so again. we should just simplify the process of becoming a citizen. Whatever constraints are placed on an American to become a citizen in your home country are the exact same as we place on you. eg: if I move to Thailand and wish to stay, I need to open a bank acct with a minimum of $10,000 USD and cannot own any property there. ergo, somebody from Thailand that wants to move here must open a bank acct in same amount and can never own property here.
 
2014-05-08 10:53:53 AM  

Bob Robert: Every hypocrite here complaining about illegals comes from the same type of immigrants.


You may want to think about that a little bit.
 
2014-05-08 10:54:45 AM  

stonelotus: so is anyone checking their immunization records when they jump the fence?


[x] Tetanus

I'm good.
 
2014-05-08 10:55:20 AM  

OnlyM3: TuteTibiImperes [TotalFark]
(favorite: 8237306-supports free speech zones)


Let's make this easy and just get on with amnesty already.
ROTFLMAO

Breaking and entering = Rewards!
Desire to exercise your right to free speech? = Get in the 'free speech cage" where nobody can hear you!

liberal logic.


Dear Sir (naturally, since wimmin are in the kitchen),

The above phrase placed in (mismatched) quotations by you is a registered trademarked property of its creator, Conservaderp Inc. You owe us $1 for its most excellent use, plus eleventy-billion for unauthorized use.

Please pay up immediately. Failure to pay will result in our going to the Federal Government for help JUST THIS ONE TIME EVER BECAUSE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS EEEVIL AND WE'RE BOOTSTRAPPY UNTIL WE GET A BOO-BOO!

A printed copy of this letter will be sent to you as soon as our next corporate welfare check is received. Thank you,

Conservaderp Inc.
 
2014-05-08 10:55:49 AM  

Bob Robert: Cold_Sassy: I'm talking about things like social security and medicare, for people who actually were born here and paid the taxes for it their whole lives. Is that so hard to understand? And, by the way I work for a living and don't lay claim to ANY handouts, I'm just tired of paying for people who don't and shouldn't even be in the farking country. Got it?

Fun fact every working illegal pays all those taxes because they are using someone elses identity but will never actually claim the benefits.


Are you serious?

Most work under the table, pay no taxes. Many receive benefits, free of charge. Much of the cash they make is sent back to Mexico. Know how much money it costs for an illegal to have a kid at a hospital? Oh ya, hospital cannot even ask if they are a citizen or report them at all.

Are people really this ignorant?
 
2014-05-08 10:55:56 AM  

Cold_Sassy: Illegal immigrants do not deserve a driver's license.  They're not even supposed to farking be here, and drain resources from people who have a legitimate claim to them.  This is bullsh*t..


Tee-hee. Oh *you.*
 
2014-05-08 10:55:59 AM  

BMFPitt: Nutsac_Jim: The roommate agreement clearly states no overnight guests, so they get kicked out.

And that's what we are saying we should change.  Reading is fundamental.


That is the best type of house rental, where one of your roomates just lets other people stay at your house.   Don't like paying for a 4br house and expecting 3 roommates but getting 25?
Have a cup of shut the eff up.  Those other 22 residents?  they were invited!
 
2014-05-08 10:56:12 AM  

Nutsac_Jim: Khellendros: Nutsac_Jim: Is 4% = 32% ? They do jobs nobody else is willing to work below minimum wage to do. So, they do work nobody is willing to do simply because they are there affecting the worker pool. That's a fantastic reason to keep them.

Your understanding of nominal tax rates and labor pools is astounding.

As is your ability to move goalposts.  You do that as a 1099, or get paid under the table?


I didn't move the goalposts at all.  I argued that they pay taxes, and get almost none of the benefits of state and federal benefits (unemployment, medicare, medicaid, social security, etc) that make up the bulk use of paid taxes.  You then made a stupid remark about worker pools and 4% not equaling 32%.  Since they do work that most average folks - even working class - simply don't want the worker pools issue is moot.  White kids from the suburbs are never going to pick lettuce.  And they pay far more than 4%, as consumer taxes are more than sales tax.  And no one in the working class pays anywhere near 32% in income taxes, and they get a TON of federal benefits for what they do pay - the aforementioned SS, medicare, welfare, etc, etc.  No goalpost moving at all.

So again I say - your understanding of labor pools and nominal tax rates is astounding.  Translation - you don't know what the fark you're talking about, and you're trying to wiggle out of it by claiming I'm moving goalposts.
 
2014-05-08 10:56:33 AM  

Cold_Sassy: fatandolder: Bob Robert: Cold_Sassy: You know what? They don't. That's the problem. They're here ILLEGALLY.

You can't just create a new system after over a hundred years of allowing anyone to enter and become citizens and then complain that the new people don't follow the ridiculous and burdensome rules. Your ancestors showed up on the shores and were automatically made citizens. You are a hypocrite for demanding more of anyone else.

My ancestors went through a legal process to become US citizen. I do not understand the hypocrisy you speak of.

You just answered your own question.


I think I was going for Bob Robert.
 
2014-05-08 10:57:07 AM  
Let's look at the hypocrisy of Mexico's rules regarding illegal immigration.  Here's what's on their books:
 Under Mexican law, illegal immigration is a felony. The General Law on Population says,

"A penalty of up to two years in prison and a fine of three hundred to five thousand pesos will be imposed on the foreigner who enters the country illegally." (Article 123)
Foreigners with legal immigration problems may be deported from Mexico instead of being imprisoned. (Article 125)
Foreigners who "attempt against national sovereignty or security" will be deported. (Article 126)

Mexicans who help illegal aliens enter the country are themselves considered criminals under the law:
A Mexican who marries a foreigner with the sole objective of helping the foreigner live in the country is subject to up to five years in prison. (Article 127)
Shipping and airline companies that bring undocumented foreigners into Mexico will be fined. (Article 132)

/But hey, breaking US immigration laws is A-OK.  You know, since they have so much money and stuff.  They need to share with us.
//Don't try that shiat here!  We'll bust your sorry ass.
 
2014-05-08 10:57:34 AM  
Look, I'm as racist as the next guy, but it's not the DMV's job to care about your citizenship status.  Did you pass the driver's test?  Congratulations, you're licensed to drive.
 
2014-05-08 10:58:46 AM  

Bob Robert: They are afraid to go to the hospital for fear of being found and deported


Nonsense. Deported by who?

Bob Robert: Think about what? Your ancestors just showed up at the door and were let in. They showed up at the door. There is no difference except back then there weren't racist quotas and requirements that only make middle and upper class people get in.


You think everyone's ancestors came here voluntarily huh? And you may want to look up the Chinese exclusion act.
 
2014-05-08 10:58:47 AM  

Bob Robert: You can't just create a new system after over a hundred years of allowing anyone to enter and become citizens and then complain that the new people don't follow the ridiculous and burdensome rules. Your ancestors showed up on the shores and were automatically made citizens. You are a hypocrite for demanding more of anyone else.


Wait are you seriously saying that 'we've been doing it for so long, just keep doing it instead of imposing laws and orders'?

I'm married to a legal immigrant so getting a kick and all out of this but the rules are there for a reason. Saying 'fark it cuz some stuff is hard' earns a self righteous 'go fark yourself'. Immigrating from a 3rd world country is a biatch. But so is life. Learn to deal.
 
2014-05-08 10:59:07 AM  
Those who want to post opinions that defend the United States and the rule of law will be shouted down so save your breath.
 
2014-05-08 11:00:30 AM  

Cold_Sassy: Illegal immigrants do not deserve a driver's license.  They're not even supposed to farking be here, and drain resources from people who have a legitimate claim to them.  This is bullsh*t..


THIS.

A THOUSAND FARKING TIMES, THIS.

Jeebus Cripes, why isn't this exactly the same as ANYTHING ELSE that's ILLEGAL?

ARRRRRRRGGGGGHHHHH!! *runs off screaming, ripping hair out by the handfuls*
 
2014-05-08 11:01:49 AM  

You Are All Sheep: Is it THAT hard to come over her legally?  or are they doing it to avoid the costs of being a citizen?


yes and what costs?
 
2014-05-08 11:01:51 AM  

serial_crusher: Look, I'm as racist as the next guy, but it's not the DMV's job to care about your citizenship status.  Did you pass the driver's test?  Congratulations, you're licensed to drive.


Then why do they care if you are under 21? Those under 21 get a completely different drivers license. It's even vertical.
 
2014-05-08 11:01:54 AM  

Bob Robert: fatandolder: My ancestors went through a legal process to become US citizen. I do not understand the hypocrisy you speak of.

Riiight... they probably showed up at Ellis Island like most and if they could breathe they became citizens.

Every hypocrite here complaining about illegals comes from the same type of immigrants. There were no legal holes you had to jump through like there are today, you are the I got mine fark you generation.


So when did you come though Ellis Island, that you know how easy it was for everyone?
 
2014-05-08 11:02:00 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: Let's make this easy and just get on with amnesty already.


2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-05-08 11:02:02 AM  

Bob Robert: unknownshooter: Not at all - My wife went through the process *legally*, it took many years, and cost thousands of dollars - and she is highly educated and an asset to this country.

As for leeching public services - one local hospital closed their maternity ward because the illegals were bankrupting the hospital.

http://womensenews.org/story/medicine/110120/hospital-maternity-ward s- are-closing-across-us#.U2uZz1e9Z2w


Hospitals had financial problems due to the uninsured and the insured who had their policies dropped once they became too expensive, leaving the hospitals with no one to pay. You do not understand the situation and thus are typical of all conservatives whose simple minds love to blame the one scapegoat.


Lol, no, not a conservative at all - uninsured pregnant women (even if they're not here legally) get "free" healthcare..

eventually, the "free" kills the hospital, or they stop offering maternity services entirely..  seen it with my own eyes..  did my nursing OB clinicals at the maternity ward down the street, - that's now closed..

Once the crotch-fruit is out, it's "American", an anchor baby & we can't deport momma, becuz it's not "fair" to break up families...
 
2014-05-08 11:02:19 AM  

bigworld2000: I find it intriguing that the people most concerned with invasive plants coming in and taking over are often big supporters of immigrants.


Well, yeah. I mean, who the hell else am I going to hire to pull the invasive plants from out of my garden?
 
2014-05-08 11:02:19 AM  

charlesmartel11235: no opinion but I'd love to see y'all try to rope bored white teenagers into picking strawberries for 35 cents a pound


Ave. Weight = 23.5 grams = 19 strawberries/lb.   To make $15/hr., you'd have to pick 43 lbs per hour, or 817 strawberries per hour, or 1 strawberry every 4.5 seconds.   For 10 hours a day? Bent over in the Sun? With bugs, bees, snakes and shiat?
 
2014-05-08 11:02:20 AM  
Bob Robert


Thunderpipes: Are you serious?

Most work under the table, pay no taxes. Many receive benefits, free of charge. Much of the cash they make is sent back to Mexico. Know how much money it costs for an illegal to have a kid at a hospital? Oh ya, hospital cannot even ask if they are a citizen or report them at all.

Are people really this ignorant?


feel free at any time to provide citations that prove our point


This says you are wrong but what do the experts know

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impact_of_illegal_immigrants_ in _the_United_States#Taxes_contributed


Not saying he is right, but Wikipedia is not even considered a valid source of factual information in my sons 4th grade class.
 
2014-05-08 11:02:28 AM  

Bob Robert: pay taxes and send their kids to school where they learn English


Free school isn't a benefit?
 
2014-05-08 11:02:42 AM  
Because when Reagan did it, it worked out perfectly and solved the problem...heeeey...wait a minute.
 
2014-05-08 11:03:32 AM  
Look, I don't really have any problem with illegal aliens. Especially if they're working, great, I won't turn you in.
But letting people who's current status is illegal get a license is ridiculous.
I can't renew my own license until I pay for an outstanding ticket and get an emissions inspection. In other words, I have to be completely legal before I get one. if they don't have to be legal, why do I?
 
2014-05-08 11:03:45 AM  

Khellendros: Cold_Sassy: Illegal immigrants do not deserve a driver's license.  They're not even supposed to farking be here, and drain resources from people who have a legitimate claim to them.  This is bullsh*t..

You're right.  It's not like they pay sales/consumer taxes, add labor to the economy, do jobs no one else wants, pay rent, purchase or consumer goods, and all without having access to things like social security, unemployment, or any other federal or state benefits.

Yeah, they're such resource drains.


Correct; they don't pay federal income tax (but we want the Ritchie's to)... they don't pay FICA (social security) but they collect disability; they have neither car insurance nor health Ins, so you pay more in hit and runs and in Emerg. Room costs; and, wait what, they get driver's licenses, but to vote, it costs too much so it is an illegal poll tax? Libtards going full DERP today!
 
2014-05-08 11:05:59 AM  

OnlyM3: TuteTibiImperes [TotalFark]
(favorite: 8237306-supports free speech zones)


Let's make this easy and just get on with amnesty already.
ROTFLMAO

Breaking and entering = Rewards!
Desire to exercise your right to free speech? = Get in the 'free speech cage" where nobody can hear you!

liberal logic.


I think they have an ice flow up in Eskimo land with your name on it. You are already late getting there.
 
2014-05-08 11:06:02 AM  
The real question here is have any of you EVER been happy with a picture taken for your driver's license?  Cuz, in PA they allow you to preview it and take it again if you aren't happy with it.  I never am happy with it...then I have to look at it for like 5 years.
 
2014-05-08 11:06:24 AM  

doubled99: I can't renew my own license until I pay for an outstanding ticket and get an emissions inspection. In other words, I have to be completely legal before I get one. if they don't have to be legal, why do I?


And this is the real problem with the whole illegal immigrant issue.  People who aren't even supposed to be in the country are getting a free pass to a LOT of stuff that the citizens have to pay for.  Why?  I'm still trying to figure that out.
 
2014-05-08 11:07:09 AM  

JackieRabbit: Why don't we just do away with the concept of citizenship altogether and just open our borders to anyone and everyone to come here and do as they please? Which is another way of asking when we lost our farking minds about illegal immigration? It isn't a left vs right issue and never has been.


It is insofar as the right is terrified that new immigrants will largely vote left. So rather than create immigrant-friendly policies consistent with right-side platforms, they'd rather pour tax money down the drain fighting an unwinnable war and scream LLLIIBBERRALLLSSS!

Which has some pretty serious implications for how much they believe in the strength or correctness of their own positions, that they automatically assume that new and unaffiliated voters would run to the other guys.
 
2014-05-08 11:07:52 AM  

Random Anonymous Blackmail: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impact_of_illegal_immigrants_ in _the_United_States#Taxes_contributed


Not saying he is right, but Wikipedia is not even considered a valid source of factual information in my sons 4th grade class.


sure, sure and that would be a valid argument except that the info in Wikipedia is sourced. For example much of the information for the linked section is taken from the CBO and there's a nice link to the relevant article at the bottom of the page.
 
2014-05-08 11:08:55 AM  

Bob Robert: DrewCurtisJr: Bob Robert: Fun fact every working illegal pays all those taxes because they are using someone elses identity but will never actually claim the benefits.

Right no benefits, who do you think pays when they go to the hospital?

They are afraid to go to the hospital for fear of being found and deported


DrewCurtisJr: Bob Robert: Every hypocrite here complaining about illegals comes from the same type of immigrants.

You may want to think about that a little bit.

Think about what? Your ancestors just showed up at the door and were let in. They showed up at the door. There is no difference except back then there weren't racist quotas and requirements that only make middle and upper class people get in.


Wrong.

Hospitals are bound by law to not request citizenship, they cannot legally report anyone. Illegals get free child birth. Quite expensive.
 
2014-05-08 11:09:16 AM  
Turn the border in to a target range.
Problem solved.
 
2014-05-08 11:09:34 AM  

Bob Robert: They are afraid of using any services for fear of being found and deported, whether right or wrong this is their fear. They stay under the radar.


You mean the same ones who are driving without licenses, even though is by FAR the most common way to come in contact with law enforcement.

Bob Robert: I didn't say everyone


Bob Robert: Every hypocrite here complaining about illegals comes from the same type of immigrants.


You are making a ridiculous assumption.
 
2014-05-08 11:10:21 AM  

You Are All Sheep: violentsalvation: TuteTibiImperes: Let's make this easy and just get on with amnesty already.

I'm for this, with a path to citizenship five or ten years down the road. We need to stop pretending these people don't exist, or that they deserve to live in the shadows and off the books. It is wrong to exploit their lack of labor rights simply because they have no legal recourse, and it is wrong to have INS go in and break up families and send people who want to be American citizens "home" just because. We can't keep these people out, we've tried.

I have respect for the people who come here legally, but it is hard to not have respect for someone who sets out through the desert, facing dehydration and death, spending every peso to their name paying some murderous cartel coyote to get them past the checkpoints for a slim chance at the American dream. If that person isn't crooked or criminal then I'd say they passed the test, a fine addition to our country. And since we can't stop them, we should at least learn their names and give them some residency paperwork.

so what laws can we just get around then?  how many other countries have an issue w/ illegal immigrants, and what do they do?

Is it THAT hard to come over her legally?  or are they doing it to avoid the costs of being a citizen?  Or because they are criminals?


The last time I had a FarkArgument about this, it was quite well shown that it IS indeed very difficult, time consuming, and expensive for someone to become a citizen.    The amount of hoops they have to jump through are ridiculous.
Our gov't really needs to streamline the process, and make it FAR easier for those that want to be here, and work, to do it legally.  All the time and effort we spend on trying to get them here legally now is a collosal failure and a nightmare.

Granted, yeah, some of them are criminals.  They should be treated like any other criminals.  But the majority aren't criminals.  If they are here trying to earn an honest buck, we should make it easier for them to do so.

Now, having said that, I hope everyone realizes that part of the problem is us.  A BIG part of the problem.  We like our cheap labor.  We like our produce cheap.  We like our landscaping cheap.  We like our dishes in restaurants washed by some guy who doesn't even speak English.  So, in reality, the biggest hurdle is that making every last one of those migrants get on the books, would have a financial impact on our economy.  And no politician wants to be responsible for that.
 
2014-05-08 11:12:15 AM  
So liberals want to completely abolish all immigration laws.

This will be fun.
 
2014-05-08 11:12:20 AM  

jehovahs witness protection: Turn the border in to a target range.
Problem solved.


Most illegals enter the country with a passport and a guest visa for 90 days.  Then they just overstay.  They actually enter the country legally, so there's nothing we can do at that moment.

The "border jumpers" are only a fraction of the people who enter.
 
2014-05-08 11:12:35 AM  

Bob Robert: unknownshooter: Lol, no, not a conservative at all - uninsured pregnant women (even if they're not here legally) get "free" healthcare..

eventually, the "free" kills the hospital, or they stop offering maternity services entirely.. seen it with my own eyes.. did my nursing OB clinicals at the maternity ward down the street, - that's now closed..

Once the crotch-fruit is out, it's "American", an anchor baby & we can't deport momma, becuz it's not "fair" to break up families...

You're just repeating the same lie over and over again without facts. The people who bankrupted the hospitals were uninsured Americans who walked through the door and were guaranteed service. This was a problem with the health care system pre Obamacare where free loaders were rewarded, and those freeloaders were not mostly  illegal immigrants they were legal residents. Try again.


Seriously - you're the one without facts here - please explain how a population estimated at eleven million people *without health insurance* doesn't impose a cost on taxpayers and harm hospitals?

Where, exactly, do the anchor-babies come from?    By definition, they're born in this country, so how is it "free"?
 
2014-05-08 11:13:45 AM  

jehovahs witness protection: Turn the border in to a target range.
Problem solved.


Hey. Good to see you. I don't agree, but it is good to see you.

Actually, part of the border region is a target range. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_M._Goldwater_Air_Force_Range
 
2014-05-08 11:14:34 AM  

Thunderpipes: So liberals want to completely abolish all immigration laws.

This will be fun.


So 'servatives want to declare open season on everyone with a swarthy complexion.

This will be fun
 
2014-05-08 11:15:21 AM  
Bob Robert

Random Anonymous Blackmail: Not saying he is right, but Wikipedia is not even considered a valid source of factual information in my sons 4th grade class.


And here we go with wikipedia isn't a valid source, click on the citations below and feel free to prove it wrong, then send a submission to get it edited or stfu


I am not going to argue numbers with you, even Wikipedia does not consider it a credible source which in itself is ironic. Resource in the link below.

Link

Don't be so defensive next time.
 
2014-05-08 11:15:55 AM  

Voiceofreason01: Thunderpipes: So liberals want to completely abolish all immigration laws.

This will be fun.

So 'servatives want to declare open season on everyone with a swarthy complexion.

This will be fun


No, that is a stupid lie, you know it.

But you really do want to abolish all immigration law. This is a fact. Free votes, cause all of them will be welfare suckers and vote for free stuff.
 
2014-05-08 11:16:00 AM  

Sin_City_Superhero: Cold_Sassy: qorkfiend: Cold_Sassy: Illegal immigrants do not deserve a driver's license.

Why do you think that would prevent them from driving? What resources does saying "Ok, you're allowed to drive" drain?

It doesn't.  So what's the difference, except for another crapload of our tax dollars are going toward a 'license' for illegal aliens?  I object to that.

If they don't have a license, they CAN'T get insurance.  At least if they can get licenses, SOME of them will buy insurance.  And having an ID that illegals can BUY at the DMV won't drain a "crapload of our tax dollars".  It's no different than an ID card, or an "under 21" license.


How do you get a license with no social security number? I'm sure they're at a permanent and legal address, too.  And they'll all pay for insurance becase they don't need to eat and stuff.  On their income, that'll be the first thing that gets skipped.
 
2014-05-08 11:16:50 AM  

JackieRabbit: BunkoSquad: JackieRabbit: Which is another way of asking when we lost our farking minds about illegal immigration?

About the time immigrants stopped being mostly European and started being mostly Asian and Hispanic.

An illegal European or Asian would be almost immediately deported if caught because they won't work for pennies on the dollar. Hispanics are our new Negroes and are being shamefully exploited. Meanwhile American citizens have a hard time finding work in the skilled trade because they won't build a house for $4/hr and work six 12 hour days each week.


i thought slaves ran away from slavery, not risking their lives to be sure to be enslaved.
 
2014-05-08 11:18:52 AM  

LibertyHiller: BunkoSquad: JackieRabbit: Which is another way of asking when we lost our farking minds about illegal immigration?

About the time immigrants stopped being mostly Northern European and started being mostly Asian and Hispanic Italian and Slavic.

There, that's closer to how it happened.

Immigration Act of 1924 (from WP)


You're totally wrong about that too. Through the 17th to 19th centuries, Americans has an attitude toward German, Irish, and Swedish immigrants that was similar to today. They required them to immigrate legally.

The one group that was treated differently were the Chinese, for whom discriminatory quotas were put in place in the late 19th century.

With our weakened economy, high labor costs and corporate taxes we are becoming increasingly less attractive for immigration
 
2014-05-08 11:19:36 AM  

Bob Robert: unknownshooter: Seriously - you're the one without facts here - please explain how a population estimated at eleven million people *without health insurance* doesn't impose a cost on taxpayers and harm hospitals?

Where, exactly, do the anchor-babies come from? By definition, they're born in this country, so how is it "free"?


Show me the statistics that blame illegals for hospitals financial problems? I described the actual problems hospitals faced, before Obamacare, over 50 million AMERICANS were uninsured, so tell me all about how it is the illegals fault.


I'd be willing to bet that your 50 million figure includes the eleven million illegals, and their crotch-fruit.
 
2014-05-08 11:20:10 AM  

Random Anonymous Blackmail: Bob Robert

Random Anonymous Blackmail: Not saying he is right, but Wikipedia is not even considered a valid source of factual information in my sons 4th grade class.


And here we go with wikipedia isn't a valid source, click on the citations below and feel free to prove it wrong, then send a submission to get it edited or stfu


I am not going to argue numbers with you, even Wikipedia does not consider it a credible source which in itself is ironic. Resource in the link below.

Link

Don't be so defensive next time.


it's annoying to have someone who clearly doesn't understand how academic writing works parrot, "Wikipedia isn't a credible source" when the information posted is both correct, relevant and well sourced. Like in this case where OP's Wikipedia link was basically a  summary of a CBO article which was linked at the bottom of the page.
 
2014-05-08 11:21:09 AM  

GrizzlyPouch: violentsalvation: TuteTibiImperes: Let's make this easy and just get on with amnesty already.

I'm for this, with a path to citizenship five or ten years down the road. We need to stop pretending these people don't exist, or that they deserve to live in the shadows and off the books. It is wrong to exploit their lack of labor rights simply because they have no legal recourse, and it is wrong to have INS go in and break up families and send people who want to be American citizens "home" just because. We can't keep these people out, we've tried.

I have respect for the people who come here legally, but it is hard to not have respect for someone who sets out through the desert, facing dehydration and death, spending every peso to their name paying some murderous cartel coyote to get them past the checkpoints for a slim chance at the American dream. If that person isn't crooked or criminal then I'd say they passed the test, a fine addition to our country. And since we can't stop them, we should at least learn their names and give them some residency paperwork.

So if I broke into your house house and stole something valuable from you'd be ok with it and have respect for me because it's kind of a tough thing to do and there are consequences if I get caught?


The problem here is your assumption that there's going to be stealing. That's a pretty breathtaking, not to mention racist assumption.

Going with Farker BMFPitt's upthread correction on this example, "your house" is shared with 300 million friends. Many of whom just want to invite their friends over. And extending this to my point about your assumptions, like many house guests immigrants are far more likely to clean the house's shared kitchen as a thank-you than to steal your stereo. Citation: tons of well-reviewed, independent studies that I wouldn't bother to link even if I wasn't on mobile because you wouldn't read them anyway. Facts have no place in your weltanschaaung, or you wouldn't still be arguing this shiat.
 
2014-05-08 11:21:45 AM  

Thunderpipes: No, that is a stupid lie, you know it.


nope there are at least a few posters here who have suggested shooting at immigrants and you yourself are a well known gun nut who's just looking for an excuse to murder someone.
 
2014-05-08 11:23:02 AM  

DrewCurtisJr: Bob Robert: Every hypocrite here complaining about illegals comes from the same type of immigrants.

You may want to think about that a little bit.


My grandparents were legal Irish immigrants.
 
2014-05-08 11:24:46 AM  

Bob Robert: unknownshooter: I'd be willing to bet that your 50 million figure includes the eleven million illegals, and their crotch-fruit.

No, it is a statistic from long ago

Even if you were right, 10 million illegals still leaves 40 million uninsured American citizens. The facts don't add up to your claim.


Lol - math much?

Let's see how this works - you're losing money on 40 million uninsured people, and then you increase that loss by 20%

Nah - that won't hurt a bit!
 
2014-05-08 11:25:03 AM  

The more you eat the more you fart: DrewCurtisJr: Bob Robert: Every hypocrite here complaining about illegals comes from the same type of immigrants.

You may want to think about that a little bit.

My grandparents were legal Irish immigrants.


My great-great grandparents were legal Irish immigrants also.

Back in those days, they really DID have a streamlined process to get people legal.  You would get off the boat, sign a paper, become a citizen, and join the army to go fight in the Civil War.

Fun times.
 
2014-05-08 11:26:53 AM  
Animatronik

Through the 17th to 19th centuries, Americans has an attitude toward German, Irish, and Swedish immigrants that was similar to the attitude towards Mexicans today.

Fixed it for clarity. The concern always seems to be about non-white people. Though, to be fair, two of those groups (Germans and Irish) ended up outnumbering English Americans, so maybe that particular concern wasn't so silly...
 
2014-05-08 11:27:02 AM  
unknownshooter:Let's see how this works - you're losing money on 40 million uninsured people, and then you increase that loss by 20%

Nah - that won't hurt a bit!


and your solution is....what? Round up and kick out all the illegal immigrants(at enormous cost) to solve 20% of a problem that has it's root cause somewhere else?
 
2014-05-08 11:27:19 AM  

You Are All Sheep: violentsalvation: TuteTibiImperes: Let's make this easy and just get on with amnesty already.

I'm for this, with a path to citizenship five or ten years down the road. We need to stop pretending these people don't exist, or that they deserve to live in the shadows and off the books. It is wrong to exploit their lack of labor rights simply because they have no legal recourse, and it is wrong to have INS go in and break up families and send people who want to be American citizens "home" just because. We can't keep these people out, we've tried.

I have respect for the people who come here legally, but it is hard to not have respect for someone who sets out through the desert, facing dehydration and death, spending every peso to their name paying some murderous cartel coyote to get them past the checkpoints for a slim chance at the American dream. If that person isn't crooked or criminal then I'd say they passed the test, a fine addition to our country. And since we can't stop them, we should at least learn their names and give them some residency paperwork.

so what laws can we just get around then?  how many other countries have an issue w/ illegal immigrants, and what do they do?

Is it THAT hard to come over her legally?  or are they doing it to avoid the costs of being a citizen?  Or because they are criminals?


If you want to come from a country like Mexico, the waiting list is current in the 15-25 year range. So yes, it is that hard. Don't have opinions on things you don't know about.
 
2014-05-08 11:27:38 AM  

Voiceofreason01: Thunderpipes: No, that is a stupid lie, you know it.

nope there are at least a few posters here who have suggested shooting at immigrants and you yourself are a well known gun nut who's just looking for an excuse to murder someone.


Has nothing to do with color, which, by the way, most are white. But people breaking the law? Ya, arm the border. Without border security, nothign else matters.
 
2014-05-08 11:28:25 AM  

Bob Robert: unknownshooter: Lol - math much?

Let's see how this works - you're losing money on 40 million uninsured people, and then you increase that loss by 20%

Nah - that won't hurt a bit!

Increase what loss? People have access to cheap insurance now, the old system is gone.


I'm certain all eleven million "undocumented" people have signed up for Obamacare and are paying their fair share of the bills..  <not>
 
2014-05-08 11:28:39 AM  

badaboom: serial_crusher: Look, I'm as racist as the next guy, but it's not the DMV's job to care about your citizenship status.  Did you pass the driver's test?  Congratulations, you're licensed to drive.

Then why do they care if you are under 21? Those under 21 get a completely different drivers license. It's even vertical.


Agreed.  You should get separate credentials to establish your age, citizenship, eligibility to vote, concealed carry permit, etc.  Places that serve alcohol shouldn't necessarily accept a driver's license as proof that a person is over 21.

I could see the argument for condensing multple pieces of informaiton onto the same device though, so you don't have to carry a million plastic cards around.  You go to the age bureau and prove your age to them somehow, so they verify that you're over 16 and then you've satisfied the DMV's requirements.  As the age bureau's job is only to register your date of birth, they don't care whether you're a citizen either, as long as you have some document they recognize.
 
2014-05-08 11:29:05 AM  

Transubstantive: You Are All Sheep: violentsalvation: TuteTibiImperes: Let's make this easy and just get on with amnesty already.

I'm for this, with a path to citizenship five or ten years down the road. We need to stop pretending these people don't exist, or that they deserve to live in the shadows and off the books. It is wrong to exploit their lack of labor rights simply because they have no legal recourse, and it is wrong to have INS go in and break up families and send people who want to be American citizens "home" just because. We can't keep these people out, we've tried.

I have respect for the people who come here legally, but it is hard to not have respect for someone who sets out through the desert, facing dehydration and death, spending every peso to their name paying some murderous cartel coyote to get them past the checkpoints for a slim chance at the American dream. If that person isn't crooked or criminal then I'd say they passed the test, a fine addition to our country. And since we can't stop them, we should at least learn their names and give them some residency paperwork.

so what laws can we just get around then?  how many other countries have an issue w/ illegal immigrants, and what do they do?

Is it THAT hard to come over her legally?  or are they doing it to avoid the costs of being a citizen?  Or because they are criminals?

If you want to come from a country like Mexico, the waiting list is current in the 15-25 year range. So yes, it is that hard. Don't have opinions on things you don't know about.


And it is not our problem. Maybe if they fixed their craphole of a country, they wouldn't need to infest ours.
 
2014-05-08 11:29:35 AM  

Bob Robert: You don't have any numbers to how many do this, most are very scared, the majority who do drive have a stolen identity


You don't have any numbers to show how many a very scared.

Bob Robert: No I'm not. The Republican party base is European ancestors who all showed up on ships and were granted legal status. Then later on they all created racist and exclusive laws that limited how many citizens could apply from each country because they are the I GOT MINE FARK YOU types.


Yes you are. And it's not only Republican's who oppose illegal immigration. BTW have you looked up the Chinese exclusion act yet to learn something? While you are learning about the topic you don't seem to no much about look at an immigration poll or two.
 
2014-05-08 11:29:48 AM  

Thunderpipes: So liberals want to completely abolish all immigration laws.

This will be fun.


It worked so well when Regan did  it.....

People who enter a country illegally should not be granted citizenship.  We need to secure the boarders and enforce current immagration law before we even begin to discuss an amenesty program.
 
2014-05-08 11:29:51 AM  

charlesmartel11235: nunyadang: I do not know what the answer is but the whole situation is a colossal  fark up.

We spends hundreds of millions of dollars funding agencies whose purpose is to stop people from entering the country illegally.

Then we spend hundreds of millions of dollars on agencies to help the illegal immigrants once they arrive.

It is so ridiculously counter intuitive that only the government can do it

My 2 cents

1 find a way to secure the border
2 once the border is secure figure out plan to either deport or grant amnesty to those here.
3 adjust the immigration numbers to ensure an adequate work force. I mean someone needs to work to pay taxes to support the lazy Americans not working.
4 try to ensure that Mexico continues to grow economically to lesser the need for thier citizens to leave.


That is my rough plan. If anyone from the Obama Administration has any questions, hit me up on Fark, I am sure we can figure something out.

1 is pretty hard. There's a whole lot of border


The air force and marines need to practice bombing runs. Sounds like a perfect deterrent.
 
2014-05-08 11:30:10 AM  
They're here. If we deport them all, they'll all be back within a month. They're going to drive, one way or the other, because there's precious little public transportation in most of America. It's just simple pragmatism to offer the opportunity to be licensed and insured, so that they can pay for their own farking car accidents, instead of making everyone else do so. It's amazing how many people just refuse to operate in the real world, and instead prefer to pretend that Rush Limbaugh's "The world as it ought to be!" is realistic or attainable.
 
2014-05-08 11:30:16 AM  

Khellendros: So again I say - your understanding of labor pools and nominal tax rates is astounding.  Translation - you don't know what the fark you're talking about, and you're trying to wiggle out of it by claiming I'm moving goalposts.


I posted a tax rate (lets call it the tax on milk) and this is garbage to claim this is 'paying taxes' the same as someone paying 28% and you jump in and claim someones knowledge of nominal tax rates is astounding.
The point is that claiming they pay their taxes because some worker at 7-11 MAY collect a sales tax is disingenuous.

Tell me.  What is the nominal income tax rate of someone who has income, but no taxable income.
 
2014-05-08 11:30:32 AM  

violentsalvation: TuteTibiImperes: Let's make this easy and just get on with amnesty already.

I'm for this, with a path to citizenship five or ten years down the road. We need to stop pretending these people don't exist, or that they deserve to live in the shadows and off the books. It is wrong to exploit their lack of labor rights simply because they have no legal recourse, and it is wrong to have INS go in and break up families and send people who want to be American citizens "home" just because. We can't keep these people out, we've tried.

I have respect for the people who come here legally, but it is hard to not have respect for someone who sets out through the desert, facing dehydration and death, spending every peso to their name paying some murderous cartel coyote to get them past the checkpoints for a slim chance at the American dream. If that person isn't crooked or criminal then I'd say they passed the test, a fine addition to our country. And since we can't stop them, we should at least learn their names and give them some residency paperwork.


Yes, the ones that come here to work should be offered temporary worker status to start with. This would be enough to get them on the books, where they would be paying taxes and have basic legal protections. Then, offer them the ability to earn permanent resident status after 2 years, and full citizenship if they work and live here for 5-10 consecutive years.

But here is the catch: If you want to remain in the country legally, you have to remain employed at least 9 months out of the year, until you have earned full citizenship. The ones who come here to live off charity or public assistance loopholes should be shipped back to their old country. anchor babies be damned.

But, in the end, that is all I ask for. If you want to come to this country, then you are welcome as long as you are willing to work.
 
2014-05-08 11:31:43 AM  

brimed03: GrizzlyPouch: violentsalvation: TuteTibiImperes: Let's make this easy and just get on with amnesty already.

I'm for this, with a path to citizenship five or ten years down the road. We need to stop pretending these people don't exist, or that they deserve to live in the shadows and off the books. It is wrong to exploit their lack of labor rights simply because they have no legal recourse, and it is wrong to have INS go in and break up families and send people who want to be American citizens "home" just because. We can't keep these people out, we've tried.

I have respect for the people who come here legally, but it is hard to not have respect for someone who sets out through the desert, facing dehydration and death, spending every peso to their name paying some murderous cartel coyote to get them past the checkpoints for a slim chance at the American dream. If that person isn't crooked or criminal then I'd say they passed the test, a fine addition to our country. And since we can't stop them, we should at least learn their names and give them some residency paperwork.

So if I broke into your house house and stole something valuable from you'd be ok with it and have respect for me because it's kind of a tough thing to do and there are consequences if I get caught?

The problem here is your assumption that there's going to be stealing. That's a pretty breathtaking, not to mention racist assumption.

Going with Farker BMFPitt's upthread correction on this example, "your house" is shared with 300 million friends. Many of whom just want to invite their friends over. And extending this to my point about your assumptions, like many house guests immigrants are far more likely to clean the house's shared kitchen as a thank-you than to steal your stereo. Citation: tons of well-reviewed, independent studies that I wouldn't bother to link even if I wasn't on mobile because you wouldn't read them anyway. Facts have no place in your weltanschaaung, or you wouldn't still be arguing this shiat.


You're assuming I'm not in favor of relaxing immigration laws. I'm not in favor of the speed limit being 70 either doesn't mean I think people who speed should be exempt from fines

My point was laws are laws, and breaking them is not something that should earn respect.
 
2014-05-08 11:34:28 AM  

Johhny Wad: Thunderpipes: So liberals want to completely abolish all immigration laws.

This will be fun.

It worked so well when Regan did  it.....

People who enter a country illegally should not be granted citizenship.  We need to secure the boarders and enforce current immagration law before we even begin to discuss an amenesty program.


Never happen. Illegals actually have more rights here than we do now. Democrats need their votes. eventually, amnesty will happen, conservatives will never win another national election, and the country is pretty much done.

Because you know next on the list will be affirmative action programs that penalize whites further. Quotas in government. Mass discrimination, and an absolute explosion in welfare and crime, like we are not bad enough as it is.

17 trillion in debt? We will shoot for 100 trillion in debt withing the next 50 years. Do liberals understand math enough to compute interest?
 
2014-05-08 11:35:08 AM  
You Are All Sheep:

Is it THAT hard to come over her legally?  or are they doing it to avoid the costs of being a citizen?  Or because they are criminals?

Umm Yes. Yes it is.


http://immigrationroad.com/green-card/immigration-flowchart-roadmap- to -green-card.pdf

Or if you want the simple breakdown..

http://wikifreccia.wikispaces.com/file/view/immigration%20graphic.jp g/ 347266900/immigration%20graphic.jpg
 
2014-05-08 11:35:09 AM  

fatandolder: Cold_Sassy: fatandolder: Bob Robert: Cold_Sassy: You know what? They don't. That's the problem. They're here ILLEGALLY.

You can't just create a new system after over a hundred years of allowing anyone to enter and become citizens and then complain that the new people don't follow the ridiculous and burdensome rules. Your ancestors showed up on the shores and were automatically made citizens. You are a hypocrite for demanding more of anyone else.

My ancestors went through a legal process to become US citizen. I do not understand the hypocrisy you speak of.

You just answered your own question.

I think I was going for Bob Robert.


Oops, sorry.
 
2014-05-08 11:36:41 AM  

bigworld2000: I find it intriguing that the people most concerned with invasive plants coming in and taking over are often big supporters of immigrants. And those people who don't give a damn about invasive species are overly paranoid about human immigration.

[img.fark.net image 160x160]


Wow, it's only 10:30, and I'm going to put money on this being the dumbest thing I will hear all day.
 
2014-05-08 11:36:55 AM  

Voiceofreason01: unknownshooter:Let's see how this works - you're losing money on 40 million uninsured people, and then you increase that loss by 20%

Nah - that won't hurt a bit!

and your solution is....what? Round up and kick out all the illegal immigrants(at enormous cost) to solve 20% of a problem that has it's root cause somewhere else?


Yes.  Deny them housing, healthcare, driver's licenses & offer them nothing except a bus ticket out of the country.

The only reason "getting tough" never worked, is because we never even tried to "get tough" - Landlords can be required to get a real I.D. from the people they're renting to.  Law Enforcement can pretty easily detain those they encounter - and checking to see if there are two people using the same social-security number at the same time for an employer is kinda simple.  It's a mess at first, but it gets easier as the herd of criminals gets smaller and smaller.

No bank accounts, no mortgages, no jobs, no licenses, no rentals - and a trip to the ER results in a patch-job and a trip home.
 
2014-05-08 11:37:56 AM  

Bob Robert: jayphat: The air force and marines need to practice bombing runs. Sounds like a perfect deterrent.

They need to practice? Why do they need to practice? There are plenty of people America bombs every day that they get plenty of practice on. You sound like a strong advocate for a military dictatorship here in America. Scary.


Lol wut? You do know that personnel stationed here in the US go on practice runs all the time, yes?
 
2014-05-08 11:38:07 AM  

Thunderpipes: And it is not our problem. Maybe if they fixed their craphole of a country, they wouldn't need to infest ours.


Bullshiat.   We've created the demand, they're just providing the supply.
 
2014-05-08 11:41:01 AM  

udhq: Thunderpipes: And it is not our problem. Maybe if they fixed their craphole of a country, they wouldn't need to infest ours.

Bullshiat.   We've created the demand, they're just providing the supply.


Nah, there's at least two criminals involved. The one who is hired and the one that hires. Actually, three maybe. Add on the one that enjoys the lower prices created by the other two criminals.
 
2014-05-08 11:41:11 AM  

badaboom: Joe USer: Cold_Sassy: Illegal immigrants do not deserve a driver's license.  They're not even supposed to farking be here, and drain resources from people who have a legitimate claim to them.  This is bullsh*t..

They're still going to be here and drive. You get to choose, do you want them untested, unlicensed, uninsured and driving or tested, licensed, insured and driving?

They're going to pay for the license and test like everyone else, so it's not free. I really don't see the issue, this improves safety.

I'm sure someone who is in the country illegally will TOTALLY buy and keep valid insurance.


So, 100% of them won't. Absolutely none, knowing that they're going to be arrested if they don't have it. ZERO. None, zilch, null, etc.
 
2014-05-08 11:42:13 AM  
In any instance, not just this one, I'm bothered by the mentality of 'If enough people break a law, we might as well just say screw it, and reward them for their illegal behavior'.
 
2014-05-08 11:43:52 AM  

Bob Robert: Thunderpipes: Democrats need their votes.

boring repeating troll is boring

From the party that does everything to limit voting rights of citizens today, this is just more white boy cries wolf.


Boring but true.

I don't understand liberals utter failure to recognize why unchecked immagration is a bad idea .
 
2014-05-08 11:43:52 AM  

Bob Robert: white boy cries


this is right wing political punditry in a nutshell.
 
2014-05-08 11:44:14 AM  

Joe USer: badaboom: Joe USer: Cold_Sassy: Illegal immigrants do not deserve a driver's license.  They're not even supposed to farking be here, and drain resources from people who have a legitimate claim to them.  This is bullsh*t..

They're still going to be here and drive. You get to choose, do you want them untested, unlicensed, uninsured and driving or tested, licensed, insured and driving?

They're going to pay for the license and test like everyone else, so it's not free. I really don't see the issue, this improves safety.

I'm sure someone who is in the country illegally will TOTALLY buy and keep valid insurance.

So, 100% of them won't. Absolutely none, knowing that they're going to be arrested if they don't have it. ZERO. None, zilch, null, etc.



lol - now we're back with the whole "it's not a "crime" thing"..  in most states, no insurance is a ticket..  no plates is a ride in a police car..  or are you proposing a "double standard" for those who have violated our borders?
 
2014-05-08 11:44:35 AM  

Bob Robert: and reminding me about the plight of some Asians who came here long ago as if that is relevant at all today. Stop trolling.


This is evidence that you don't know what you are talking about.

Bob Robert: There is no difference except back then there weren't racist quotas and requirements that only make middle and upper class people get in.


And like when you make the ridiculous claim that illegal immigrants don't use hospitals.
 
2014-05-08 11:46:49 AM  

AaronSynn: In any instance, not just this one, I'm bothered by the mentality of 'If enough people break a law, we might as well just say screw it, and reward them for their illegal behavior'.


Reward them by making them pay money and take tests while reducing the number of untrained and unlicensed drivers.

There's a reward in there all right, it's for everyone else on the road.
 
2014-05-08 11:47:51 AM  

Mcavity: You Are All Sheep:

Is it THAT hard to come over her legally?  or are they doing it to avoid the costs of being a citizen?  Or because they are criminals?

Umm Yes. Yes it is.


http://immigrationroad.com/green-card/immigration-flowchart-roadmap- to -green-card.pdf

Or if you want the simple breakdown..

http://wikifreccia.wikispaces.com/file/view/immigration%20graphic.jp g/ 347266900/immigration%20graphic.jpg


well then that's ridiculous.  We should really streamline and simplify our process and don't make it cost so much.
 
2014-05-08 11:47:53 AM  

Thunderpipes: Johhny Wad: Thunderpipes: So liberals want to completely abolish all immigration laws.

This will be fun.

It worked so well when Regan did  it.....

People who enter a country illegally should not be granted citizenship.  We need to secure the boarders and enforce current immagration law before we even begin to discuss an amenesty program.

Never happen. Illegals actually have more rights here than we do now. Democrats need their votes. eventually, amnesty will happen, conservatives will never win another national election, and the country is pretty much done.

Because you know next on the list will be affirmative action programs that penalize whites further. Quotas in government. Mass discrimination, and an absolute explosion in welfare and crime, like we are not bad enough as it is.

17 trillion in debt? We will shoot for 100 trillion in debt withing the next 50 years. Do liberals understand math enough to compute interest?


Sadly you are correct. It's like they are hell bent on burning this farker to the ground. They will bankrupt the country, anarchy will ensue. ..but then a dictator will come in to power and set liberalism back a few hundred years.
 
2014-05-08 11:48:29 AM  

qorkfiend: Cold_Sassy: Illegal immigrants do not deserve a driver's license.

Why do you think that would prevent them from driving? What resources does saying "Ok, you're allowed to drive" drain?


I say go for it. The ID specifically states that it isn't good for federal purposes. It isn't a portal to federal subsidies and will at least give the state some sort of documentation about where these people live.

Realistically, you probably aren't going to get most illegals into the system as most are weary about getting on gov't lists, but at least it will bring in more money for the state in license fees and more money to the insurance companies (assuming that buy insurance). I know how concerned Fark is about ins companies getting their profits up.
 
2014-05-08 11:49:15 AM  

Bob Robert: jayphat: Lol wut? You do know that personnel stationed here in the US go on practice runs all the time, yes?

And all without actively operating on American soil, if they want real live targets they can get shipped overseas to any one of the numerous undeclared war zones.


Who said ANYTHING about live targets? I said turn it into a bombing range. You cross onto a live fire bombing range, that's your problem.
 
2014-05-08 11:49:34 AM  

Bob Robert: Thunderpipes: Democrats need their votes.

boring repeating troll is boring

From the party that does everything to limit voting rights of citizens today, this is just more white boy cries wolf.


You mean the Democrats?

Funny you think the only right that should not be regulated at all is voting, so you can get illegals and dead people to elect Democrats.

hippiecrit.

Liberals are nothing more than bigots, racists, and trolls. News at 11:00.
 
2014-05-08 11:52:21 AM  

unknownshooter: Joe USer: badaboom: Joe USer: Cold_Sassy: Illegal immigrants do not deserve a driver's license.  They're not even supposed to farking be here, and drain resources from people who have a legitimate claim to them.  This is bullsh*t..

They're still going to be here and drive. You get to choose, do you want them untested, unlicensed, uninsured and driving or tested, licensed, insured and driving?

They're going to pay for the license and test like everyone else, so it's not free. I really don't see the issue, this improves safety.

I'm sure someone who is in the country illegally will TOTALLY buy and keep valid insurance.

So, 100% of them won't. Absolutely none, knowing that they're going to be arrested if they don't have it. ZERO. None, zilch, null, etc.


lol - now we're back with the whole "it's not a "crime" thing"..  in most states, no insurance is a ticket..  no plates is a ride in a police car..  or are you proposing a "double standard" for those who have violated our borders?


If you've kept up with the latest from the Supreme Court you will know that police officers can arrest for any violation. If they think you're a menace, they'll take you off the street. They also have the option to tow your car and you get to walk home to plan your court date.
 
2014-05-08 11:53:28 AM  

Bob Robert: Thunderpipes: You mean the Democrats?

Funny you think the only right that should not be regulated at all is voting, so you can get illegals and dead people to elect Democrats.

hippiecrit.

Liberals are nothing more than bigots, racists, and trolls. News at 11:00.


AAAAnnd the derp is turned up to 10 when you lost the argument


I won the argument, I always do.

Libs just can't do anything but cry, like you just did.

You are like fat spoiled children, just need a good smack in the mouth.
 
2014-05-08 11:53:48 AM  

Bob Robert: America had over a century of unchecked immigration, it turned into the most powerful and richest country in the world, your white boy cries wolf is noted and laughed at


Bob Robert: and reminding me about the plight of some Asians who came here long ago as if that is relevant at all today.


So long ago is only relevant when you are trying to make your point, noted and laughed at.
 
2014-05-08 11:53:50 AM  
I'm sure it's been said, but I have more of a problem with their handing them out to goddamn idiots.  I really don't care where they have citizenship, I just want them to know how to farking drive.
 
2014-05-08 11:55:18 AM  

violentsalvation: We can't keep these people out, we've tried.


Not really, our attempts are almost laughable compared to what we could be doing.
 
2014-05-08 11:56:17 AM  

Thunderpipes: Bob Robert: Thunderpipes: You mean the Democrats?

Funny you think the only right that should not be regulated at all is voting, so you can get illegals and dead people to elect Democrats.

hippiecrit.

Liberals are nothing more than bigots, racists, and trolls. News at 11:00.


AAAAnnd the derp is turned up to 10 when you lost the argument

I won the argument, I always do.

Libs just can't do anything but cry, like you just did.

You are like fat spoiled children, just need a good smack in the mouth.


You need to go into detail on how you smack people in the mouth, but only as long as they're smaller than you and defenseless.
 
2014-05-08 11:57:42 AM  

Bob Robert: GrizzlyPouch: So if I broke into your house house and stole something valuable from you'd be ok with it and have respect for me because it's kind of a tough thing to do and there are consequences if I get caught?

Entering the country illegally is a misdemeanor and yet you are comparing it to breaking and entering?


It's not even a misdemeanor. It's not a crime at all. It's considered a civil offense.
If it were a criminal act, then any duly sworn law enforcement agent could arrest illegal aliens.
 
2014-05-08 11:58:22 AM  

Bob Robert: Thunderpipes: You mean the Democrats?

Funny you think the only right that should not be regulated at all is voting, so you can get illegals and dead people to elect Democrats.

hippiecrit.

Liberals are nothing more than bigots, racists, and trolls. News at 11:00.


AAAAnnd the derp is turned up to 10 when you lost the argument


See this derp? It goes to 11.
 
2014-05-08 12:01:11 PM  

Bob Robert: your trolling is boring as fark man, try harder next time to actually address the facts I bring up and the citations I provide, all you can do is talk over me and keep going back to unrelated sob stories that have nothing to do with the topic. Get off your Chinese addiction.


You mean the fact that only Republicans of European ancestry are against illegal immigration or that illegal immigrants don't use healthcare?
 
2014-05-08 12:01:26 PM  
dropdfun

Not really, our attempts are almost laughable compared to what we could be doing.

I agree that we probably could, but do we really want to? Leaving aside the corporate/government interests that seem to be pretty clearly saying "no," how do the rest of us feel about increased security and the like? I'm sure we've all seen the videos of "citizenship checkpoints" well within our borders...is that the kind of thing we really want to have, much less increase? We'd have to, to catch the ten to twenty million people illegally residing here.

I'm not a fan of "papers, please" just to get rid of Juan the dishwasher. YMMV.
 
2014-05-08 12:01:59 PM  
www.experience-germany.com

"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free..."
 
2014-05-08 12:02:33 PM  

Bob Robert: Cold_Sassy: How do you get a license with no social security number? I'm sure they're at a permanent and legal address, too. And they'll all pay for insurance becase they don't need to eat and stuff. On their income, that'll be the first thing that gets skipped.

They are using someone elses ssn that is how the businesses pay them in the first place and why at least half are estimated to be paying taxes. this large off the books illegal working population hasnt existed for many years.


You are SO ignorant.  My head hurts.
 
2014-05-08 12:05:59 PM  

Friction8r: Sadly you are correct. It's like they are hell bent on burning this farker to the ground. They will bankrupt the country, anarchy will ensue. ..but then a dictator will come in to power and set liberalism back a few hundred years.


Except for the inconvenient fact that the federal government is not in debt.
 
2014-05-08 12:07:28 PM  

Bob Robert: Joe USer: You need to go into detail on how you smack people in the mouth, but only as long as they're smaller than you and defenseless.

And only when they can ccw their favorite gun, and have their bros right behind them. Get these loud mouthed cowards alone and they are shy kids sitting alone in the corner. I remember one when I played basketball at a local park always talked shiat, but only with his bros were there with him. I told him how tough he acted when his buddies were around as backup and he stfu after that.


You play basketball!
 
2014-05-08 12:08:03 PM  

Bob Robert: Danger Mouse: Boring but true.

I don't understand liberals utter failure to recognize why unchecked immagration is a bad idea .

America had over a century of unchecked immigration, it turned into the most powerful and richest country in the world, your white boy cries wolf is noted and laughed at


No we did not have unchecked immagration. You do not know what your are talking about.

And because I don't want the country overrun with  diseasae ridden, criminal welfare cases you call me a racist?


Not only do you not know what you are talking about, you're an ass.
 
2014-05-08 12:08:09 PM  
 
2014-05-08 12:09:44 PM  
Deport illegals. Streamline citizenship process. Limit the number of immigrants per year. Anyone caught crossing illegally is immediately made ineligible for citizenship.

If we allow amnesty, we will be the only country on the face of the planet that just allows illegal immigrants to cross our border without penalty. Even farkin' FRANCE is tougher on illegal immigrants than we are right now.
 
2014-05-08 12:09:47 PM  

Two16: TuteTibiImperes: Let's make this easy and just get on with amnesty already.

[2.bp.blogspot.com image 285x150]


One thing the left seldom considers when they profess for open borders is how this can change a nation from within. Borders are what create a country. Within these borders we have certain values and ideas, especially when it comes to freedom, liberty, and civil rights. It is the people within those borders that determine the rules. Without borders we could risk these ideals if there is a seismac demographic change. It is a good thing to keep out those who do not or will not share our values. One example on how this played out was Prop 8 (gay marriage) in California

"Los Angeles County -- the state's most populous -- is particularly interesting to look at. In LA County, Prop. 8 won a narrow majority of 50.1 percent. But, President Obama carried the county with a whopping 69 percent.
The discrepancy?  African American voters, who were overwhelmingly in favor of banning same sex marriage (http://abcnews.go.com/images/PollingUnit/CAExitPollGayMarriage.pdf">7 0 percent supported Proposition 8) even as they supported Obama even more heavily (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/polls/#val=CAP00p1">94 percent).  And, to a lesser degree, Hispanic voters followed that same trend -- backing Prop. 8 by a 53 percent to 47 percent margin while giving President Obama 74 percent."


Not everyone in the world shares your same views on women's rights, gay rights, etc. Imagine a US populace so changed that those ideals are threatened.
 
2014-05-08 12:11:00 PM  

The more you eat the more you fart: Deport illegals. Streamline citizenship process. Limit the number of immigrants per year. Anyone caught crossing illegally is immediately made ineligible for citizenship.

If we allow amnesty, we will be the only country on the face of the planet that just allows illegal immigrants to cross our border without penalty. Even farkin' FRANCE is tougher on illegal immigrants than we are right now.


And get rid of quotas saying for so many from one country we have to take so many from another.
 
2014-05-08 12:16:51 PM  

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: [www.experience-germany.com image 400x300]

"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free..."


Constructed to keep people from leaving, kinda retarded to even bring it into the conversation.

On a side note I was there when that biatch came down, our German language class took a field trip to the wall and 13 year old me went to town on a section of that sucker with a hammer.
 
2014-05-08 12:17:18 PM  

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: [www.experience-germany.com image 400x300]

"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free..."


My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who saw Muslims taking over Mexico and moving north into the US. I guess it's pretty serious.
 
2014-05-08 12:17:53 PM  
If they are not a citizen, fine give them a license if they pass the test and pay the fee. But put in a prominent place Citizen of Saudi Arabia Citizen of Canada Citizen of Mexico or whatever country they are citizens of. What is wrong with that might I ask?
 
2014-05-08 12:24:01 PM  

durbnpoisn: You Are All Sheep: violentsalvation: TuteTibiImperes: Let's make this easy and just get on with amnesty already.

I'm for this, with a path to citizenship five or ten years down the road. We need to stop pretending these people don't exist, or that they deserve to live in the shadows and off the books. It is wrong to exploit their lack of labor rights simply because they have no legal recourse, and it is wrong to have INS go in and break up families and send people who want to be American citizens "home" just because. We can't keep these people out, we've tried.

I have respect for the people who come here legally, but it is hard to not have respect for someone who sets out through the desert, facing dehydration and death, spending every peso to their name paying some murderous cartel coyote to get them past the checkpoints for a slim chance at the American dream. If that person isn't crooked or criminal then I'd say they passed the test, a fine addition to our country. And since we can't stop them, we should at least learn their names and give them some residency paperwork.

so what laws can we just get around then?  how many other countries have an issue w/ illegal immigrants, and what do they do?

Is it THAT hard to come over her legally?  or are they doing it to avoid the costs of being a citizen?  Or because they are criminals?

The last time I had a FarkArgument about this, it was quite well shown that it IS indeed very difficult, time consuming, and expensive for someone to become a citizen.    The amount of hoops they have to jump through are ridiculous.


Very true.  A friend has been working in the U.S. on a legal immigrant status card for several years.  I even found out last night that his american born, german ancestry wife back when they first met went on a first date with him when he didn't know a word of english at all.

Once a year (or was it twice...) he had to spend at least 2 weeks a year in Mexico in order to keep his status.  He's very proud of the citizenship and voter I.D. he finally earned last year.  And the American passport that's now in his hands that he received last week.
 
2014-05-08 12:24:14 PM  

Nadie_AZ: Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: [www.experience-germany.com image 400x300]

"Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free..."

My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who saw Muslims taking over Mexico and moving north into the US. I guess it's pretty serious.


 BP agents not wearing radiation detectors because they are worried about some poor schmuck trying to make a better life for themselves or the family they left behind south of the border.

Actually as someone that sometimes deals with the BP due to my work and has one as a neighbor and a high school friend that is also a BP agent, according to them the amount of OTM's as they put it has increased a lot in the past decade. Oddly enough even Chinese are using the southern border to get her illegally, some of those I have had to deal with after the fact of them getting here.
 
2014-05-08 12:24:28 PM  

Bob Robert: jayphat: Who said ANYTHING about live targets? I said turn it into a bombing range. You cross onto a live fire bombing range, that's your problem.

Your dream is to turn the border into the no mans land like in Berlin? How badly brainwashed by conservative military propaganda are you?


Yes. Because we artificially separated two countries and are clearly trying to keep people in the hands of Soviet Oppression™.
 
2014-05-08 12:25:43 PM  

Transubstantive: You Are All Sheep: violentsalvation: TuteTibiImperes: Let's make this easy and just get on with amnesty already.

I'm for this, with a path to citizenship five or ten years down the road. We need to stop pretending these people don't exist, or that they deserve to live in the shadows and off the books. It is wrong to exploit their lack of labor rights simply because they have no legal recourse, and it is wrong to have INS go in and break up families and send people who want to be American citizens "home" just because. We can't keep these people out, we've tried.

I have respect for the people who come here legally, but it is hard to not have respect for someone who sets out through the desert, facing dehydration and death, spending every peso to their name paying some murderous cartel coyote to get them past the checkpoints for a slim chance at the American dream. If that person isn't crooked or criminal then I'd say they passed the test, a fine addition to our country. And since we can't stop them, we should at least learn their names and give them some residency paperwork.

so what laws can we just get around then?  how many other countries have an issue w/ illegal immigrants, and what do they do?

Is it THAT hard to come over her legally?  or are they doing it to avoid the costs of being a citizen?  Or because they are criminals?

If you want to come from a country like Mexico, the waiting list is current in the 15-25 year range. So yes, it is that hard. Don't have opinions on things you don't know about.


So how is this wait-list America's problem?  The problem is that there are too many of them, and we can't help that.  Life sucks.
 
2014-05-08 12:31:15 PM  

dropdfun: Oddly enough even Chinese are using the southern border to get her illegally, some of those I have had to deal with after the fact of them getting here


This has roots in the late 1800s and early 1900s, historically. I'm a little surprised it is still going on, but this isn't new.
 
2014-05-08 12:31:37 PM  

GrizzlyPouch: My point was laws are laws, and breaking them is not something that should earn respect.


thumbs.media.smithsonianmag.com
 
2014-05-08 12:33:27 PM  

Bob Robert: unknownshooter: Lol - math much?

Let's see how this works - you're losing money on 40 million uninsured people, and then you increase that loss by 20%

Nah - that won't hurt a bit!

Increase what loss? People have access to cheap insurance now, the old system is gone.


That's funny . My insurance and copay went up for some reason .
 
2014-05-08 12:33:29 PM  

unknownshooter: Yes.  Deny them housing, healthcare, driver's licenses & offer them nothing except a bus ticket out of the country.

The only reason "getting tough" never worked, is because we never even tried to "get tough" - Landlords can be required to get a real I.D. from the people they're renting to.  Law Enforcement can pretty easily detain those they encounter - and checking to see if there are two people using the same social-security number at the same time for an employer is kinda simple.  It's a mess at first, but it gets easier as the herd of criminals gets smaller and smaller.

No bank accounts, no mortgages, no jobs, no licenses, no rentals - and a trip to the ER results in a patch-job and a trip home.


Everything you just said is so wrong that I don't even know where to start to tell you why it's wrong. Which leaves me with just one question: What color is the sky in the world you live in?
 
2014-05-08 12:38:01 PM  

BMFPitt: GrizzlyPouch: My point was laws are laws, and breaking them is not something that should earn respect.

[thumbs.media.smithsonianmag.com image 631x300]


Are you comparing crossing the border illegally and having to (potentially) face consequences like deportation to the treatment of African Americans?
 
2014-05-08 12:38:39 PM  
Let's apply the same laws and standards today to Mexican immigrants that were applied to all the European immigrant ancestors that many Farkers are proud to cite.
 
2014-05-08 12:39:27 PM  

Nadie_AZ: dropdfun: Oddly enough even Chinese are using the southern border to get her illegally, some of those I have had to deal with after the fact of them getting here

This has roots in the late 1800s and early 1900s, historically. I'm a little surprised it is still going on, but this isn't new.


No its not new but has not been a common thing for some time now. Has been more so a thing of the northern border after they made their way into Canada either legally or illegally then crossing over from there. Just kind of odd that there has been somewhat of an influx of it happening on the southern border now when that hasn't been the case for some time. Who knows though, I have not talked to anyone working in our northern states in some time, maybe policies and procedures have changed up there with various agencies and this has had an effect on them attempting the southern border, that or Canada has been cracking down.
 
2014-05-08 12:40:00 PM  

Bob Robert: Danger Mouse: No we did not have unchecked immagration. You do not know what your are talking about.

And because I don't want the country overrun with diseasae ridden, criminal welfare cases you call me a racist?


Not only do you not know what you are talking about, you're an ass.

What requirements were there for people showing up in America like at Ellis Island? Citations please


No crimenals, crazies,  or prostitues were allowed in. There were medical exams and an attempt to identify and document who the people were. to the best of our abilities.

We also were in a period of unprecedented growth and were litterally giving away land in the west. Why aren't we still giving away land?  We also didn't provide free health care, EBT cards, homes, phones etc. People were required to  make it on thier own. Not so much now, eh?

The world and our society  has significantly changed since the turn of the 19 centuary, no?  Why would you not want to have background checks and medical exams for people entering the country?

Name one country that allows free, unchecked immagration that you would like the US to model after. Please.

Oh and since you're woefully incapable of researching US imigration here's a link to help you with the history of Imagration law in the US, you  lazy twit.

http://www.fairus.org/facts/us_laws
 
2014-05-08 12:43:46 PM  

Epic Fap Session: Let's apply the same laws and standards today to Mexican immigrants that were applied to all the European immigrant ancestors that many Farkers are proud to cite.


Which would be?
 
2014-05-08 12:46:47 PM  

unknownshooter: Bob Robert: unknownshooter: Bob Robert: GrizzlyPouch: So if I broke into your house house and stole something valuable from you'd be ok with it and have respect for me because it's kind of a tough thing to do and there are consequences if I get caught?

Entering the country illegally is a misdemeanor and yet you are comparing it to breaking and entering?


Overstaying a visa might be a misdemeanor, but forging documents so you can steal someone else's identity & work here, skipping out on paying taxes, leeching off public services etc add up to more than just one misdemeanor.

What is Mexico's penalty for skipping over the border?  What will the Canadians do if you try to take a job from a Canadian?  -> hint: it isn't nice..

Skipping out on paying taxes, wrong. They pay taxes.

Leeching public services? What services do they use? Do you think they apply for food stamps and social security?

Another kid of immigrants who just showed up wants to make it harder for a new generation, typical of the conservative "I got mine" mentality

Not at all - My wife went through the process *legally*, it took many years, and cost thousands of dollars - and she is highly educated and an asset to this country.

As for leeching public services - one local hospital closed their maternity ward because the illegals were bankrupting the hospital.

http://womensenews.org/story/medicine/110120/hospital-maternity-ward s- are-closing-across-us#.U2uZz1e9Z2w


Nice try, asshole, but the story you cite as your source of this tale of illegals bankrupting a hospital through the maternity ward doesn't have anything like that in it at all.

So, which are you? Paid shill, ignorant bigot, or just a farking liar? You only get to pick one.
 
2014-05-08 12:47:06 PM  

Nutsac_Jim: Khellendros: So again I say - your understanding of labor pools and nominal tax rates is astounding.  Translation - you don't know what the fark you're talking about, and you're trying to wiggle out of it by claiming I'm moving goalposts.

I posted a tax rate (lets call it the tax on milk) and this is garbage to claim this is 'paying taxes' the same as someone paying 28% and you jump in and claim someones knowledge of nominal tax rates is astounding.
The point is that claiming they pay their taxes because some worker at 7-11 MAY collect a sales tax is disingenuous.

Tell me.  What is the nominal income tax rate of someone who has income, but no taxable income.


So once again, you're claiming that the working poor (minimum wage workers) pay 28% income tax?  Have you ever filled out a 1040 on $18,000 total income?  You do not pay over $5,000 of taxes on that.  You pay roughly zero, and qualify for tax subsidies, welfare, medicaid, etc.

You are correct, illegal alien income is not taxed beyond consumer taxes.  But their benefits on that income is well below what a citizen gets for the taxes they do pay.  They get roads, and their kids can go to school.  No unemployment, no social security, no medicare, no welfare, no sectioned housing, no EIC credits, the list goes on and on.  Their use of services vs. income is more positive than the bottom fifth of citizen workers (the working poor) who do pay taxes and use public funds and services.

So no, you seem to have no clue what what you're talking about on nominal tax rates.
 
2014-05-08 12:47:20 PM  

Danger Mouse: Oh and since you're woefully incapable of researching US imigration here's a link to help you with the history of Imagration law in the US, you  lazy twit.

http://www.fairus.org/facts/us_laws


You ought to watch the name calling.
 
2014-05-08 12:48:23 PM  

zjoik: charlesmartel11235: no opinion but I'd love to see y'all try to rope bored white teenagers into picking strawberries for 35 cents a pound

let me tell ya bouth the rabbits george


I'm practicing my folksy republican schtick for when I run for Governor of a southern state as a Republican of South Asian descent
/actually born in Louisiana
 
2014-05-08 12:48:28 PM  

dropdfun: Constructed to keep people from leaving, kinda retarded to even bring it into the conversation.


Because the DDR would've welcomed anyone hopping over the wall with open arms?

Regardless, the point is that being a bastion of freedom and liberty and whatnot means not throwing up border fortifications that would have made Nikita Kruschev envious.
 
2014-05-08 12:49:39 PM  

badaboom: Epic Fap Session: Let's apply the same laws and standards today to Mexican immigrants that were applied to all the European immigrant ancestors that many Farkers are proud to cite.

Which would be?


Well, it would depend a little on the exact time of the immigration, but from 1880s until the Immigration Act of 1924, if you were from a "desirable" country in Europe, it was pretty much "Welcome to America!"
 
2014-05-08 12:50:12 PM  

vudukungfu: charlesmartel11235: no opinion but I'd love to see y'all try to rope bored white teenagers into picking strawberries for 35 cents a pound

Uh. I did that when I was 13.


Grandpa Simpson?
 
2014-05-08 12:50:48 PM  

BMFPitt: GrizzlyPouch: My point was laws are laws, and breaking them is not something that should earn respect.

[thumbs.media.smithsonianmag.com image 631x300]


how many people in that picture can you name without looking it up?


yeah, mad respect yo.
 
2014-05-08 12:51:17 PM  

dropdfun: I have not talked to anyone working in our northern states in some time, maybe policies and procedures have changed up there with various agencies and this has had an effect on them attempting the southern border, that or Canada has been cracking down.


There are a few thousand border patrol agents in Vermont alone.
There are a couple of hundred Spanish speaking workers on a few farms hidden in plain sight.
 
2014-05-08 12:57:00 PM  

badaboom: Are you comparing crossing the border illegally and having to (potentially) face consequences like deportation to the treatment of African Americans?


Actually I was providing a direct counterexample to the statement, "My point was laws are laws, and breaking them is not something that should earn respect."

stonelotus: how many people in that picture can you name without looking it up?

yeah, mad respect yo.


I don't know the name of that Tienanmen Square guy, either, so fark that guy, right Mr. Pinkmann?
 
2014-05-08 12:57:10 PM  

Epic Fap Session: Danger Mouse: Oh and since you're woefully incapable of researching US imigration here's a link to help you with the history of Imagration law in the US, you  lazy twit.

http://www.fairus.org/facts/us_laws

You ought to watch the name calling.


You should check your facts. (and actually read the entire article you posted, brainiac.

The http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_for_Immigration_Studies">Center for Immigration Studies, an organization that advocates Immigration reduction in the United States, reported in 2004: "Households headed by illegal aliens imposed more than $26.3 billion in costs on the federal government in 2002 and paid only $16 billion in taxes, creating a net fiscal deficit of almost $10.4 billion, or $2,700 per illegal household."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impact_of_illegal_im migrants_in_ the_United_States#cite_note-63">[63]
The Feb 2011 report "The Fiscal Burden of Illegal Immigration on US Taxpayers" from the Federation for American Immigration Reform "estimates the annual costs of illegal immigration at the federal, state and local level to be about $113 billion; nearly $29 billion at the federal level and $84 billion at the state and local level. The study also estimates tax collections from illegal alien workers, both those in the above-ground economy and those in the underground economy. Those receipts [apx $13 billion] do not come close to the level of expenditures..." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impact_of_illegal_immigrants_in _ the_United_States#cite_note-Federation_for_American_Immigration_Reform -64">[64]


More fun info for you, Proffesor:

http://www.fairus.org/action/cost-of-illegal-immigration-at-the-stat e- level

(and our prisons would like to have a chat with you about the cost of illegal imigration).
 
2014-05-08 12:59:32 PM  
I think anyone on the planet should be able to move here. I'd bet at least half would like to. Imagine America, population 5 billion? No? Where to draw the line?
 
2014-05-08 01:01:22 PM  

AaronSynn: In any instance, not just this one, I'm bothered by the mentality of 'If enough people break a law, we might as well just say screw it, and reward them for their illegal behavior'.


...aaaaaaaand THIS.
 
2014-05-08 01:03:03 PM  

Bob Robert: The GOP base is white European immigrants, did you really think it was the party of inclusive and racial diversity?


Why don't you answer the actual comment?

Facetious_Speciest: I'm not a fan of "papers, please" just to get rid of Juan the dishwasher.


Don't fall for this "papers, please" nonsense. Most of these laws are in reality anti-sanctuary laws, allowing officers to cooperate with federal authorities instead of ordering them not to act on immigration violations. This will work well and they know it, that is why the pro-illegal crowd fights so hard against it by trying to compare it to "papers, please".
 
2014-05-08 01:03:38 PM  

Danger Mouse: Proffesor


So what you're saying is that when nativist groups study illegal immigration, they consistently find that illegal immigration is bad and costly, but when academics do studies, it turns out there is a net benefit.

I'm shocked.
 
2014-05-08 01:03:58 PM  

unknownshooter: Yeah - I know all about how long and expensive the process is to come here legally, the wife did it (from Canada) - it took years and cost thousands of dollars.


Same story here.  If she hasn't yet, make sure your wife gets her citizenship as soon as possible.  We didn't do that for my wife, and she ran into an ICE worker PMSing when it came time to renew her green card.  Long (expensive) story short, I now live in Canada, and my wife can't go back, even to visit our kids.
 
2014-05-08 01:04:15 PM  

LZeitgeist: AaronSynn: In any instance, not just this one, I'm bothered by the mentality of 'If enough people break a law, we might as well just say screw it, and reward them for their illegal behavior'.

...aaaaaaaand THIS.


So you're ok with the current "drug war"?  Or are you willing to admit that maybe the situation is more complicated than it just being about the legality of the issue?
 
2014-05-08 01:04:21 PM  

The more you eat the more you fart: Deport illegals. Streamline citizenship process. Limit the number of immigrants per year. Anyone caught crossing illegally is immediately made ineligible for citizenship.

If we allow amnesty, we will be the only country on the face of the planet that just allows illegal immigrants to cross our border without penalty. Even farkin' FRANCE is tougher on illegal immigrants than we are right now.


Well said.
 
2014-05-08 01:06:01 PM  
Why does one have to be for deporting illegals OR immigration reform?

Why and it not be BOTH?

Boot out the illegals AND cut some of the red tape that makes it take so long to immigrate legally.
 
2014-05-08 01:09:46 PM  
You know who really pisses me off? The illegals that show up on this land, commit heinous crimes including murder with great regularity, lobby the government for their own interests at the expense of everyone else, and then have thousands if not millions of kids who drain all of our social programs for every cent their worth, yet refuse to extend to others the courtesies they've enjoyed for long. You know: white people.

/is a white guy.
//we're dicks.
 
2014-05-08 01:10:44 PM  

Bob Robert: I know you are one of the worst trolls on here


If that's not the biggest pot and kettle statement I've seen all week, I don't know what it.
 
2014-05-08 01:11:10 PM  

Danger Mouse: Bob Robert: Danger Mouse: No we did not have unchecked immagration. You do not know what your are talking about.

And because I don't want the country overrun with diseasae ridden, criminal welfare cases you call me a racist?


Not only do you not know what you are talking about, you're an ass.

What requirements were there for people showing up in America like at Ellis Island? Citations please

No crimenals, crazies,  or prostitues were allowed in. There were medical exams and an attempt to identify and document who the people were. to the best of our abilities.

We also were in a period of unprecedented growth and were litterally giving away land in the west. Why aren't we still giving away land?  We also didn't provide free health care, EBT cards, homes, phones etc. People were required to  make it on thier own. Not so much now, eh?

The world and our society  has significantly changed since the turn of the 19 centuary, no?  Why would you not want to have background checks and medical exams for people entering the country?

Name one country that allows free, unchecked immagration that you would like the US to model after. Please.

Oh and since you're woefully incapable of researching US imigration here's a link to help you with the history of Imagration law in the US, you  lazy twit.

http://www.fairus.org/facts/us_laws


(CirizenKaneApplause.gif)
 
2014-05-08 01:12:53 PM  

Bob Robert: The more you eat the more you fart: Why does one have to be for deporting illegals OR immigration reform?

Why and it not be BOTH?

Boot out the illegals AND cut some of the red tape that makes it take so long to immigrate legally.

America let almost all of your ancestors here just by them crossing the border. Bunch o' hypocrites

Boot out all the families that worked hard? Separate them so the kids stay but their parents have to go? You are a sick person.


Actually i DO have the sniffles..but im pretty sure it's just allergies. Pollen season and all.
 
2014-05-08 01:13:51 PM  
DrewCurtisJr

Don't fall for this "papers, please" nonsense. Most of these laws are in reality anti-sanctuary laws, allowing officers to cooperate with federal authorities instead of ordering them not to act on immigration violations. This will work well and they know it, that is why the pro-illegal crowd fights so hard against it by trying to compare it to "papers, please".

I was actually speaking of a specific practice that I directly mentioned. There are tons of videos of people going through "citizenship checkpoints," usually refusing to cooperate (as they should).

I have no problem with LEOs being allowed to communicate to proper authorities the illegal status of those they encounter in the course of their usual duties, i.e., if one apprehends someone for assault, robbery, etc., and the subject is here illegally, passing that information on and holding the person for deportation. I just hate the idea of specifically making random people, illegal or not (usually not), demonstrate proof of legal residency. Such practices are "papers, please."
 
2014-05-08 01:16:19 PM  
Lots of people commit murder. Shoukd we stop arresting them?

Millions of people get speeding tickets. Should we abolish speed limit laws?

Lots of people beat their wives, commit rape, and steal. Shoukd we stop enforcing THOSE laws too?


Saying we should just stop enforcing the law because a whole bunch of people break it is just a stupid...STUPID arguement.
 
2014-05-08 01:19:10 PM  

Bob Robert: The more you eat the more you fart: Why does one have to be for deporting illegals OR immigration reform?

Why and it not be BOTH?

Boot out the illegals AND cut some of the red tape that makes it take so long to immigrate legally.

America let almost all of your ancestors here just by them crossing the border. Bunch o' hypocrites

Boot out all the families that worked hard? Separate them so the kids stay but their parents have to go? You are a sick person.


Youve never worked in a maternity ward FULL of border-crossers who got their wives pregnant on purpose then waited until shevwas 8.5 months to nreak the law just so they can have a kid (on taxpayer's money btw) as a way to under-handedly get citizenship.

So..yes. Kick them out.
 
2014-05-08 01:19:25 PM  
Scrotastic Method

/is a white guy.
//we're dicks.


I think we're naturally pretty awesome, honestly. It's just that large segments of our population have been co-opted into poor ideologies (corporatism, obnoxious chauvinism, aggressive militarism against targets of dubious worth, Christianity, etc.) that tend to work out poorly for other people. It's not a sign of something wrong with us that this is so, but rather that we're so awesome that these systems naturally want us on their side to promulgate them.

But that's just, like, my opinion, man.
 
2014-05-08 01:19:26 PM  

GrizzlyPouch: violentsalvation: TuteTibiImperes: Let's make this easy and just get on with amnesty already.

I'm for this, with a path to citizenship five or ten years down the road. We need to stop pretending these people don't exist, or that they deserve to live in the shadows and off the books. It is wrong to exploit their lack of labor rights simply because they have no legal recourse, and it is wrong to have INS go in and break up families and send people who want to be American citizens "home" just because. We can't keep these people out, we've tried.

I have respect for the people who come here legally, but it is hard to not have respect for someone who sets out through the desert, facing dehydration and death, spending every peso to their name paying some murderous cartel coyote to get them past the checkpoints for a slim chance at the American dream. If that person isn't crooked or criminal then I'd say they passed the test, a fine addition to our country. And since we can't stop them, we should at least learn their names and give them some residency paperwork.

So if I broke into your house house and stole something valuable from you'd be ok with it and have respect for me because it's kind of a tough thing to do and there are consequences if I get caught?


That is just about as far from a valid comparison as one can get. And I say that as someone who has had a well pump burned up because illegal immigrants crossing my property left the breaker on to a poorly producing well that was not yet wired right.
 
2014-05-08 01:19:28 PM  

Facetious_Speciest: if one apprehends someone for assault, robbery, etc., and the subject is here illegally, passing that information on and holding the person for deportation.


What if they are caught driving without a license? May not be the most heinous of crime but the fact is they were caught and chances are when establishing that person's identity it will be discovered that they are here illegally.

Facetious_Speciest: I just hate the idea of specifically making random people, illegal or not (usually not), demonstrate proof of legal residency. Such practices are "papers, please."


Which law(s) specifically are you referring to? I know some where characterized that way by dishonest critics but I honestly haven't seen any that allows officers to just stop random people and demand proof of citizenship.
 
2014-05-08 01:22:37 PM  

Bob Robert: ChaosStar: Bob Robert: I know you are one of the worst trolls on here

If that's not the biggest pot and kettle statement I've seen all week, I don't know what it.

You are another angry troll who can't ever debate what I say so you have to drive by insult. I'm not a troll, I stay here and back up my claims. You just can't stand that liberals are educated and have common sense.


See that's the problem with you Bob, you don't debate you just troll.
You don't address the comments of others like what would occur in a real debate. You just blurt out a whole bunch of words that form coherent but off the point sentences, shout "FACTS" about citations you don't even read, and throw in "conservative" and "GOP" like they're your own personal profanities.

Will this make you feel better?
encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com
There you go buddy.
 
2014-05-08 01:22:52 PM  

The more you eat the more you fart: Why does one have to be for deporting illegals OR immigration reform?

Why and it not be BOTH?

Boot out the illegals AND cut some of the red tape that makes it take so long to immigrate legally.


The problem with this whole discussion is that neither option is really workable: becoming a citizen/working here legally is deliberately difficult as a screening process to keep out the poor and uneducated and you can't(for a lot of reasons) deport all the illegal immigrants and it would be stupid, expensive and destruction to try. This is a problem that requires a little more nuance than you're likely to find here.
 
2014-05-08 01:24:02 PM  

Bob Robert: ChaosStar: Bob Robert: I know you are one of the worst trolls on here

If that's not the biggest pot and kettle statement I've seen all week, I don't know what it.

You are another angry troll who can't ever debate what I say so you have to drive by insult. I'm not a troll, I stay here and back up my claims. You just can't stand that liberals are educated and have common sense.


Im a liberal.

Im just smarter than YOU apparently.
 
2014-05-08 01:24:53 PM  

Bob Robert: The more you eat the more you fart: Youve never worked in a maternity ward FULL of border-crossers who got their wives pregnant on purpose then waited until shevwas 8.5 months to nreak the law just so they can have a kid (on taxpayer's money btw) as a way to under-handedly get citizenship.

So..yes. Kick them out.

And I am sure you have.

ChaosStar: See that's the problem with you Bob, you don't debate you just troll.

I've proved my point many times with citations and real world examples. People like you just keep personally attacking me and trolling me without debating the facts, like all the good hypocritical trolls here. Welcome to ignore.


Actually, Bob, I have. Ive been a nurse for 14 years.
 
2014-05-08 01:25:23 PM  

Bob Robert: And they don't target white and asians with those tactics, it's always the mexican-y lookin types


No white or asians?

Didn't you read about this which sent the pro-illegal crowd into a fit of ecstasy even though it was in contrast to their "only be used on brown people" lies.

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2011/11/21/373334/german-mercedes-b en z-executive-arrested-under-alabamas-immigration-law/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/11/30/alabama-immigration-law-hon da _n_1121650.html
 
2014-05-08 01:28:04 PM  

Bob Robert: Welcome to ignore.


i852.photobucket.com
 
2014-05-08 01:31:58 PM  

Bob Robert: The more you eat the more you fart: Im a liberal.

Im just smarter than YOU apparently.

I was talking to ChaosStar, did you forget what user name each window was logged into?


The more you eat the more you fart: Actually, Bob, I have. Ive been a nurse for 14 years.

You are a master of everything. I am sure you have citations that prove your claim about maternity wards.... right? Keep trolling


I dont need citations. I saw it with my own eyes.

Master of everything? Did i claim this? I have two degrees: one in culinary arts and one in nuring.

Calling me a troll...weaksauce kiddo.

I refuted your claims with my firsthand knowledge as a medical professional that works in a charity hospital.

I think its clear who the troll is.
 
2014-05-08 01:32:44 PM  
I really like what Bush proposed with making "guest worker" permits easy to get. No having to sneak across the border, we know who is here, taxes are paid, and they can go home when they want to. Too bad it didn't pass.
 
2014-05-08 01:33:04 PM  
Bob Robert

And they don't target white and asians with those tactics, it's always the mexican-y lookin types

Actually, they seem to target anyone and everyone, these days. We're rather rapidly leaving the traditional territory of white people (or acceptably quasi-white people) being treated special in return for support of a particular system. Too much profit and too much power to be had oppressing everyone.

This may be a strategic error on the part of the powers that be. It certainly seems that way to me. It used to be that the poorest white people could usually be persuaded to allow (and support, representationally) horrible abuses of other people as long as such were largely confined to those other people, but (IMO) this system is breaking down as it becomes more and more apparent that what you allow your government to do to others, they will eventually think they can do to you for their own power or profit.

Which, of course, is largely the way it's always been, but it becomes more obvious the longer it continues.

Jebus and crying eagles will not satisfy even poor, ignorant white people forever. Couple that with the amazingly increased flow of unsanitised information across the world now, and there are problems on the horizon and at the door. Old systems will break, or the same powers will have to buckle down so hard that revolution of various sorts becomes inevitable.

In the war for freedom from oligarchs, Juan the dishwasher, Chuck the redneck and Dekwan the attractive and successful are on the same side, even if they ordinarily don't want anything to do with one another. This is inevitable.

/the dialectic says so
//logic demands it
///and white pride means having enough esteem in your own people that you will not be used by those who poorly mouth piety to your interests at the expense of other and, eventually, yourselves

My alarmingly decreased rum bottle says it is known.
 
2014-05-08 01:35:14 PM  

Bob Robert: The more you eat the more you fart: I dont need citations. I saw it with my own eyes.

So I should just study it out


The more you eat the more you fart: I refuted your claims

That word, it does not mean what you think it means

Ploink


It means..your claims are wrong...and i AM proof.

Why? Because unless YOU worked in a hospital, yiu have no firsthand knowledge. I do.
 
2014-05-08 01:35:20 PM  

Bob Robert: You showed those laws are racist and only target non whites and you think that proves your point?


Nah, just once again wanted to demonstrate that you don't know what you are talking about, and that your reading comprehension is very low.

Bob Robert: And

they don't target white and asians with those tactics, it's always the mexican-y lookin types
 
2014-05-08 01:38:54 PM  

Bob Robert: And you know who needs to lie about what their job is when trying to prove a point without facts to back their lies up? Trolls.

"I'm a doctor so I can tell you XYZ is wrong"

Nope, you're a lying troll.


If i knew of a way to anonymously post a picture....i could make you look VERY stupid right now....
 
2014-05-08 01:39:18 PM  
Fess up, Mr Tancredo. I know you're posting in this thread somewhere.
 
2014-05-08 01:39:58 PM  

The more you eat the more you fart: It means..your claims are wrong...and i AM proof.


Well, as a fighter pilot, I can confirm that you don't exist.

See how that works?  We're on the internet where anyone can say anything, and none of it means shiat.
 
2014-05-08 01:40:27 PM  
DrewCurtisJr

What if they are caught driving without a license? May not be the most heinous of crime but the fact is they were caught and chances are when establishing that person's identity it will be discovered that they are here illegally.

Ok. Deport them. They'll come right back, but if it makes you happy...

Of course, I have to imagine that there's some provision in places that want to provide licenses to such people that would protect them from such deportation...otherwise, who the hell would sign up?

Which law(s) specifically are you referring to? I know some where characterized that way by dishonest critics but I honestly haven't seen any that allows officers to just stop random people and demand proof of citizenship.

I'm not talking about a law, but a practice. Seriously, watch some of the libertarian types go through these checkpoints. The agents involved always want you to establish that you're a citizen, and almost always let you go after you refuse to comply. It seems to me that they're using "illegals" as an excuse to try and get us used to such random bullshiat as an almost-literal "papers, please" society.

If you have no idea what I'm talking about, do a search on liveleak or something for "DHS checkpoint" and the like.
 
2014-05-08 01:40:57 PM  
Bob Robert
they don't target white and asians with those tactics, it's always the mexican-y lookin types


Why do they always ignore the Samoans too? I guess no one wants to pick a fight with a Samoan.
 
2014-05-08 01:42:58 PM  

muck4doo: I guess no one wants to pick a fight with a Samoan.


I wouldn't want to cross a Samoan. 
You know what you get when you cross a Samoan with a Mexican?
Samoa-Mexicans.

get it?
 
2014-05-08 01:43:40 PM  

udhq: The more you eat the more you fart: It means..your claims are wrong...and i AM proof.

Well, as a fighter pilot, I can confirm that you don't exist.

See how that works?  We're on the internet where anyone can say anything, and none of it means shiat.


Except im not claiming to be a fighter pilot.
 
2014-05-08 01:45:11 PM  

Bob Robert: And you know who needs to lie about what their job is when trying to prove a point without facts to back their lies up? Trolls.

"I'm a doctor so I can tell you XYZ is wrong"

Nope, you're a lying troll.


i1375.photobucket.com

What were you saying? Lol
 
2014-05-08 01:47:44 PM  

The more you eat the more you fart: Bob Robert: And you know who needs to lie about what their job is when trying to prove a point without facts to back their lies up? Trolls.

"I'm a doctor so I can tell you XYZ is wrong"

Nope, you're a lying troll.



What were you saying? Lol


Oh..and btw..that's a magnet status pin.

Means not only am I a nurse, but i am in the top 1% of nurses nationwide.

So...go fark yourself.
 
2014-05-08 01:49:31 PM  

The more you eat the more you fart: Except im not claiming to be a fighter pilot.


Well, I was just pointing this out because for some reason, I have you farkied as "claims to be a doctor, definitely doesn't sound like it."  No idea when/why this happened.
 
2014-05-08 01:50:48 PM  

udhq: The more you eat the more you fart: Except im not claiming to be a fighter pilot.

Well, I was just pointing this out because for some reason, I have you farkied as "claims to be a doctor, definitely doesn't sound like it."  No idea when/why this happened.


Well..picture proof.

I never claimed to be a doctor. Im a nurse.
 
2014-05-08 01:50:50 PM  

Facetious_Speciest: Ok. Deport them. They'll come right back, but if it makes you happy...


They come back because they know once they get past the border their is a very low chance of getting caught because of the various sanctuary policies and there is low workplace enforcement.

Facetious_Speciest: Of course, I have to imagine that there's some provision in places that want to provide licenses to such people that would protect them from such deportation...otherwise, who the hell would sign up?


That's the whole point of these licenses. Any lines about increasing safety and insured rights are a joke.

"I'm not trying to tell Congress what form that takes, any of the details, but we are moving in that direction, and this is something that's a first step," the Democratic governor said.
 
2014-05-08 01:54:01 PM  

Khellendros: Nutsac_Jim: Khellendros: So again I say - your understanding of labor pools and nominal tax rates is astounding.  Translation - you don't know what the fark you're talking about, and you're trying to wiggle out of it by claiming I'm moving goalposts.

I posted a tax rate (lets call it the tax on milk) and this is garbage to claim this is 'paying taxes' the same as someone paying 28% and you jump in and claim someones knowledge of nominal tax rates is astounding.
The point is that claiming they pay their taxes because some worker at 7-11 MAY collect a sales tax is disingenuous.

Tell me.  What is the nominal income tax rate of someone who has income, but no taxable income.

So once again, you're claiming that the working poor (minimum wage workers) pay 28% income tax?  Have you ever filled out a 1040 on $18,000 total income?  You do not pay over $5,000 of taxes on that.  You pay roughly zero, and qualify for tax subsidies, welfare, medicaid, etc.

You are correct, illegal alien income is not taxed beyond consumer taxes.  But their benefits on that income is well below what a citizen gets for the taxes they do pay.  They get roads, and their kids can go to school.  No unemployment, no social security, no medicare, no welfare, no sectioned housing, no EIC credits, the list goes on and on.  Their use of services vs. income is more positive than the bottom fifth of citizen workers (the working poor) who do pay taxes and use public funds and services.

So no, you seem to have no clue what what you're talking about on nominal tax rates.


You forgot the social security tax which employers have to take out of the employee's check.  Outside of that, accurate.  Just working at a payroll company lets me look at minimum wage checks occasionally. it's percentage based. A 16 hour check doesn't have as much social security taxed out of it as 40 hours does.

Apparently some have issue with being forced to have it taken.

I on the other hand don't plan on relying on social security though I will be glad to receive the checks after retirement. so I'm working on doing as much as I can to add to my savings outside of work.
 
2014-05-08 01:54:37 PM  

The more you eat the more you fart: Bob Robert: And you know who needs to lie about what their job is when trying to prove a point without facts to back their lies up? Trolls.

"I'm a doctor so I can tell you XYZ is wrong"

Nope, you're a lying troll.

[i1375.photobucket.com image 300x224]

What were you saying? Lol


Bob has you on ignore

Bob Robert: Ploink


That's how a certain idiot on Fark say they've ignored you, and why I'm fairly certain Bob is an alt.
 
2014-05-08 01:55:09 PM  

Bob Robert: Danger Mouse: Name one country that allows free, unchecked immagration that you would like the US to model after. Please.

Your argument proves my point, none of these people coming here fit this disqualification:

Danger Mouse: No crimenals, crazies, or prostitues were allowed in. There were medical exams and an attempt to identify and document who the people were. to the best of our abilities.

They are just too poor and desperate to wait in line and hope to get papers after a decade or more

Danger Mouse: We also didn't provide free health care, EBT cards, homes, phones etc.

Illegals get ebt homes and phones? What the fark am I reading?

Danger Mouse: The world and our society has significantly changed since the turn of the 19 centuary, no? Why would you not want to have background checks and medical exams for people entering the country?

Exactly this is the FARK YOU I GOT MINE defense

Danger Mouse: Oh and since you're woefully incapable of researching US imigration here's a link to help you with the history of Imagration law in the US, you lazy twit.

http://www.fairus.org/facts/us_laws

You proved my point, immigration was easy as pie until the racists took over government and restricted it. You got yours, so fark the rest.


The #1 rule of immigration is that it supposed to be benfecial for the country accepting the immigrant NOT beneficial for the immigrant. It is NOT fark you I got mine nor is it racist. We can not be the world's repository for anyone and everyone. The citizens of this country have every right to determine who gets to be in the club. And there are plenty of legitimate reasons to limit membership. In fact, putting a throttle on immigration allows us to absorb people and better serve them when they arrive. Annual limits make sense. It prevents the system from being overloaded. It allows the county to determine who or what skills are necessary at any given time. It keeps the diveristy as well. If we can only absorb 500,000 people in a given year for example why is it fair that all 500,000 come from one nation? We the citizens should be in compelte control of who comes here (and why) and who does NOT get to come here (and why). You are a fool if you think this is all race based.
 
2014-05-08 01:55:31 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Let's make this easy and just get on with amnesty already.


America trusted us once when we promised security after amnesty. They cant be stupid enough to trust us again can they? - Democrats.
 
2014-05-08 01:56:15 PM  
DrewCurtisJr

That's the whole point of these licenses. Any lines about increasing safety and insured rights are a joke.

From your linked piece about Colorado, it appears that those licensed will have to pass a standard driving test and demonstrate that they're paying taxes. If they're here anyway (as no one is seriously suggesting mass deportation), isn't that an improvement, if only a small one?
 
2014-05-08 01:58:24 PM  

ChaosStar: The more you eat the more you fart: Bob Robert: And you know who needs to lie about what their job is when trying to prove a point without facts to back their lies up? Trolls.

"I'm a doctor so I can tell you XYZ is wrong"

Nope, you're a lying troll.

[i1375.photobucket.com image 300x224]

What were you saying? Lol

Bob has you on ignore

Bob Robert: Ploink

That's how a certain idiot on Fark say they've ignored you, and why I'm fairly certain Bob is an alt.


No sweat off my balls.

Hes a tard either way.
 
2014-05-08 02:00:59 PM  

Facetious_Speciest: If they're here anyway (as no one is seriously suggesting mass deportation), isn't that an improvement, if only a small one?


Improvement in what sense? Making life so comfortable for them so that more come and stay? We need to be going in the other direction to deter illegals.
 
2014-05-08 02:01:56 PM  

Epic Fap Session: badaboom: Epic Fap Session: Let's apply the same laws and standards today to Mexican immigrants that were applied to all the European immigrant ancestors that many Farkers are proud to cite.

Which would be?

Well, it would depend a little on the exact time of the immigration, but from 1880s until the Immigration Act of 1924, if you were from a "desirable" country in Europe, it was pretty much "Welcome to America!"


And you got to walk right in? No medicall exam? No background check? No papers?
 
2014-05-08 02:10:54 PM  

Epic Fap Session: badaboom: Epic Fap Session: Let's apply the same laws and standards today to Mexican immigrants that were applied to all the European immigrant ancestors that many Farkers are proud to cite.

Which would be?

Well, it would depend a little on the exact time of the immigration, but from 1880s until the Immigration Act of 1924, if you were from a "desirable" country in Europe, it was pretty much "Welcome to America!"


That's how it works today for people from the "desirable" part of Mexico.  There just don't happen to actually be any.
 
2014-05-08 02:14:55 PM  
DrewCurtisJr

Improvement in what sense?

In that we know they've at least qualified like the rest of us to drive, and pay taxes. Both are better than neither, right?

We need to be going in the other direction to deter illegals.

But it doesn't appear we're going to, does it? I honestly don't remember, did any of the presidential candidates from the last election support doing anything useful in that regard? It seems like all the politicians and corporations are on the same page, here, and it's not the page you wish.
 
2014-05-08 02:32:44 PM  

Facetious_Speciest: In that we know they've at least qualified like the rest of us to drive, and pay taxes. Both are better than neither, right?


Not necessarily. It may increase accidents because they will be emboldened to drive more often than they do now.

Facetious_Speciest: But it doesn't appear we're going to, does it? I honestly don't remember, did any of the presidential candidates from the last election support doing anything useful in that regard? It seems like all the politicians and corporations are on the same page, here, and it's not the page you wish.


Romney talked about enforcement and attrition and we had states pass their own laws only to be challenged by the Obama administration because it would force him to do his job and enforce interior immigration laws.
 
2014-05-08 02:36:40 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Let's make this easy and just get on with amnesty already.


Because what we need to do is encourage even more to come and make the bottom fall out of our standard of living.

There's only so many resources to go around and the last thing our young people at the bottom rung of the ladder is is a whole class of people who never should have been here in the first place fighting with them for the shiat jobs they have no right to even be considered for.
 
2014-05-08 02:42:08 PM  

Bob Robert: LZeitgeist: (CirizenKaneApplause.gif)

I already showed why his argument was wrong, you all can stop patting yourselves on the back now.


No you didn't. You just simply contradicted what I said without offering any crediable counter arugment, points, or citations. you then go on to  name call others.

The fact is there have been immigration laws for over a hundred years.  The fact is there are crediable reports out thier that show illegal immigartion causes big problems (crime, health and drain on social services).


You call anyone who wants to tighten up a broken immigration system a racist.

Honenslty,  I'll say thiis again  you don't know what you're talking about and you're also being an asshole about it.
 
2014-05-08 02:44:25 PM  
DrewCurtisJr

It may increase accidents because they will be emboldened to drive more often than they do now.

It may. I get the feeling, though (no kind of data to back it up), that they're not reticent about driving as is. If they're going to drive anyway, it seems better if even only some of them are regulated to some degree. IMO.

Romney talked about enforcement and attrition and we had states pass their own laws only to be challenged by the Obama administration because it would force him to do his job and enforce interior immigration laws.

I just don't see (or hear about) much support from politicians for anything that would deal with the situation. Honestly, the last I recall hearing about from Romney, he supported amnesty/citizenship.

It seems to me that no one save fringe candidates have any desire to deal with illegal migrants in anything but an accepting manner. Given that, the reality at hand, the best that can be done is to attempt to mitigate whatever damage might be done.
 
2014-05-08 02:50:22 PM  

BMFPitt: badaboom: Are you comparing crossing the border illegally and having to (potentially) face consequences like deportation to the treatment of African Americans?

Actually I was providing a direct counterexample to the statement, "My point was laws are laws, and breaking them is not something that should earn respect."

stonelotus: how many people in that picture can you name without looking it up?

yeah, mad respect yo.

I don't know the name of that Tienanmen Square guy, either, so fark that guy, right Mr. Pinkmann?


I don't know, were you going to use him as an example of respect too?
 
2014-05-08 03:01:37 PM  

badaboom: The #1 rule of immigration is that it supposed to be benfecial for the country accepting the immigrant NOT beneficial for the immigrant. It is NOT fark you I got mine nor is it racist. We can not be the world's repository for anyone and everyone. The citizens of this country have every right to determine who gets to be in the club. And there are plenty of legitimate reasons to limit membership. In fact, putting a throttle on immigration allows us to absorb people and better serve them when they arrive. Annual limits make sense. It prevents the system from being overloaded. It allows the county to determine who or what skills are necessary at any given time. It keeps the diveristy as well. If we can only absorb 500,000 people in a given year for example why is it fair that all 500,000 come from one nation? We the citizens should be in compelte control of who comes here (and why) and who does NOT get to come here (and why). You are a fool if you think this is all race based.


Very well put, too bad many people are idiots and cant grasp this. Either that or they do and dream about seeing our country devolve into some third world shiat hole due to absorbing mainly an uneducated and unskilled workforce.
 
2014-05-08 03:09:42 PM  
I'd be willing to wager that most of the tender-hearted folks in here who support removing immigration quotas are also in favor of a strong social safety net, and see no conflict whatsoever between such a social system and letting in unlimited adults from other countries.
 
2014-05-08 03:13:21 PM  

BunkoSquad: JackieRabbit: Which is another way of asking when we lost our farking minds about illegal immigration?

About the time immigrants stopped being mostly European and started being mostly Asian and Hispanic.


This is what "Progressives" actually believe.
 
2014-05-08 03:14:36 PM  

Facetious_Speciest: I just don't see (or hear about) much support from politicians for anything that would deal with the situation. Honestly, the last I recall hearing about from Romney, he supported amnesty/citizenship.

It seems to me that no one save fringe candidates have any desire to deal with illegal migrants in anything but an accepting manner. Given that, the reality at hand, the best that can be done is to attempt to mitigate whatever damage might be done.


Well let's see some honest debate, and I want the questions answered how this immigration reform bill is good for the U.S. at a time when so many workers can't find jobs. They want to legalize millions of workers which will let them compete with many more Americans for jobs and make it easier to import more foreign workers and relaxing the requirements that they tried to hire an American first.
 
2014-05-08 03:16:29 PM  

vudukungfu: muck4doo: I guess no one wants to pick a fight with a Samoan.

I wouldn't want to cross a Samoan. 
You know what you get when you cross a Samoan with a Mexican?
Samoa-Mexicans.

get it?


lulz.

My point however is that there is too much black and mexican hating in this country. Samoans need their turn. fark that polumalu steeler coont.
 
2014-05-08 03:18:15 PM  
We're all complicit in the illegal immigrant problem. Business likes cheap labor, lefties like cheap votes, and citizens like cheap vegetables (well, buying them. Not many of us are eating them). Stopping illegal immigration means higher costs for businesses and consumers, fewer votes for Democrats, and lazy welfare recipients losing their excuse.
 
2014-05-08 03:19:06 PM  

qorkfiend: Does anyone seriously think that not having a driver's license would prevent an illegal immigrant from driving?


So because they do it anyway, we should just make it legal and remove the associated penalties?

Should we decriminalize murder as well? Because, you know, laws haven't reduced the murder rate to zero.
 
2014-05-08 03:21:41 PM  
I declare April 8th as official hate a Samoan or Steeler day from here on out.
 
2014-05-08 03:22:07 PM  
DrewCurtisJr

Well let's see some honest debate, and I want the questions answered how this immigration reform bill is good for the U.S. at a time when so many workers can't find jobs. They want to legalize millions of workers which will let them compete with many more Americans for jobs and make it easier to import more foreign workers and relaxing the requirements that they tried to hire an American first.

That won't happen. Cheap labor is good for business (and thus, government) interests. Politicians don't care about your standard of living, they don't care about your cultural desires, they don't care about you at all.
 
2014-05-08 03:24:36 PM  

Facetious_Speciest: Politicians don't care about your standard of living, they don't care about your cultural desires, they don't care about you at all.


You lie! The dummiecrats care! I read it here on Fark. They would love every bone in my body if they could.
 
2014-05-08 03:27:00 PM  

muck4doo: I declare April 8th as official hate a Samoan or Steeler day from here on out.


Oh shiat, I just realized it is now May. Time to adjust my clock. Goddam daylight savings time.
 
2014-05-08 03:27:55 PM  

Facetious_Speciest: Cheap labor is good for business (and thus, government) interests.


Then why are they talking about raising the minimum wage? They only seem to care about labor costs when illegal aliens are involved.
 
2014-05-08 03:28:58 PM  

Khellendros: Cold_Sassy: Illegal immigrants do not deserve a driver's license.  They're not even supposed to farking be here, and drain resources from people who have a legitimate claim to them.  This is bullsh*t..

You're right.  It's not like they pay sales/consumer taxes, add labor to the economy, do jobs no one else wants, pay rent, purchase or consumer goods, and all without having access to things like social security, unemployment, or any other federal or state benefits.

Yeah, they're such resource drains.


Its so cute how you think they don't get things like food stamps, cause economic damage through identity theft, lower market wages, game yheir W2 to receive max tax credits, etc.
 
2014-05-08 03:30:23 PM  

Harvey Manfrenjensenjen: 1. The feds don't really "have a problem" with it, they're just saying it won't be a DHS-recognized form of ID. Big deal.

2. CA passed a law requiring something to be put in place without thinking about the practicalities of implementation? Color me shocked.

3. Those of you who equate illegal immigration to an actual "crime" are idiots. No one's rights are being violated by someone being here without proper approval and documentation. It's a procedural violation, and should be handled as a civil rather than criminal matter. However, I'm willing to concede your point if you all agree that things like not getting a proper permit for your deck or waiting too long to re-register your car should also result in a SWAT team bearing down on you to send your lilly white ass to PMITA prison.


Jesus fark, don't give the farking libs any ideas, asshole.  You're not helping
 
2014-05-08 03:32:49 PM  

Danger Mouse: Epic Fap Session: Danger Mouse: Oh and since you're woefully incapable of researching US imigration here's a link to help you with the history of Imagration law in the US, you  lazy twit.

http://www.fairus.org/facts/us_laws

You ought to watch the name calling.

You should check your facts. (and actually read the entire article you posted, brainiac.

The http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_for_Immigration_Studies">Center for Immigration Studies, an organization that advocates Immigration reduction in the United States, reported in 2004: "Households headed by illegal aliens imposed more than $26.3 billion in costs on the federal government in 2002 and paid only $16 billion in taxes, creating a net fiscal deficit of almost $10.4 billion, or $2,700 per illegal household."http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impact_of_illegal_im migrants_in_ the_United_States#cite_note-63">[63]
The Feb 2011 report "The Fiscal Burden of Illegal Immigration on US Taxpayers" from the Federation for American Immigration Reform "estimates the annual costs of illegal immigration at the federal, state and local level to be about $113 billion; nearly $29 billion at the federal level and $84 billion at the state and local level. The study also estimates tax collections from illegal alien workers, both those in the above-ground economy and those in the underground economy. Those receipts [apx $13 billion] do not come close to the level of expenditures..." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_impact_of_illegal_immigrants_in _ the_United_States#cite_note-Federation_for_American_Immigration_Reform -64">[64]


More fun info for you, Proffesor:

http://www.fairus.org/action/cost-of-illegal-immigration-at-the-stat e- level

(and our prisons would like to have a chat with you about the cost of illegal imigration).


Good, finally somebody provides  good solid proof that there is a huge negative economic impact to this country from this problem.
 
2014-05-08 03:33:00 PM  
For thos who say illegal immagrants don't get benefits, all you have to do is look at Obama's Aunt Zatoonie who lived in this country for years on the dole and when interveiwed was pretty upfront about it.

Or Obama's uncle Oingogoingo who was living here for years...yea the guy who hit a cop car while driving drunk.

/oh those Obamas!
 
2014-05-08 03:33:38 PM  

Harvey Manfrenjensenjen: 1. The feds don't really "have a problem" with it, they're just saying it won't be a DHS-recognized form of ID. Big deal.

2. CA passed a law requiring something to be put in place without thinking about the practicalities of implementation? Color me shocked.

3. Those of you who equate illegal immigration to an actual "crime" are idiots. No one's rights are being violated by someone being here without proper approval and documentation. It's a procedural violation, and should be handled as a civil rather than criminal matter. However, I'm willing to concede your point if you all agree that things like not getting a proper permit for your deck or waiting too long to re-register your car should also result in a SWAT team bearing down on you to send your lilly white ass to PMITA prison.


Reentry after first deportation is a crime.... but facts are pesky things.
 
2014-05-08 03:36:37 PM  

ChaosStar: Bob Robert: I know you are one of the worst trolls on here

If that's not the biggest pot and kettle statement I've seen all week, I don't know what it.


Amen, brother!
 
2014-05-08 03:38:21 PM  

Bob Robert: Thunderpipes: Why would anyone bother to come here legally then? Just jump the fence, get free citizenship, free stuff.

Why bother to have immigration laws at all?

They don't get free stuff, they pay taxes and work their asses off. Far harder than lazy entitled faux patriots like yourself who come from dirt poor immigrants who only had to show up to be considered a citizen. Now everyone has to jump through hoops and only the families with money make it the legal way.


Free schooling, free emergency care, food stamps... nope. They don't get anything free.

Is your idiotic assumption truly that tgere is zero cost to illegal immigration?

Google how many trauma 1 care centers are in southern arizona. Google the costs for prison housing of illegal immigrants. Stop being ignorantto one side of the equation. We know you wont research from yesterdays thread though.
 
2014-05-08 03:39:07 PM  
DrewCurtisJr

Then why are they talking about raising the minimum wage?

Talk is cheap. Who makes minimum wage? The pool of people most likely to compete with illegal residents. Wouldn't it suck for the politicians if a metric farkton of people actually got concerned about this issue?
 
2014-05-08 03:45:08 PM  

MyRandomName: Its so cute how you think they don't get things like food stamps, cause economic damage through identity theft, lower market wages, game yheir W2 to receive max tax credits, etc.


And you have evidence this is a problem of scale, right?  You know, like voter fraud.
 
2014-05-08 03:46:25 PM  

ChaosStar: Bob Robert: Welcome to ignore.

[i852.photobucket.com image 290x285]


You lucky farker!
 
2014-05-08 03:48:05 PM  
"Fun fact every working illegal pays all those taxes because they are using someone elses identity but will never actually claim the benefits."

NOT  true

Most lawn care and day laborers do not have phony ID as if the contractor is NOT doing govt work they have no requirement to prove the legality of their workers citizenship/naturalization status.  Hence they can pay a much lower wage since none of them can complain about minimum wage violations.

I work in a school district.  It is a no touch zone for illegals be it the student or the parent.  The amount of money spent on illegals to ensure they get breakfast and lunch and learn to speak English is ridiculous.

Should there be a path to legal status? Yes.  But it should be the same for everyone and breaking thelaws of your intended country of residence should not be the starting point.

Maybe we should mirror Mexico's immigration policy towards their southern neighbors
 
2014-05-08 03:53:45 PM  

Rabid Gerbil: Maybe we should mirror Mexico's immigration policy towards their southern neighbors


Yes.  Let's make ourselves more like Mexico.  Such a shining example.
 
2014-05-08 03:56:35 PM  

Khellendros: Rabid Gerbil: Maybe we should mirror Mexico's immigration policy towards their southern neighbors

Yes.  Let's make ourselves more like Mexico.  Such a shining example.


You sound racist.
 
2014-05-08 03:58:03 PM  

Khellendros: So once again, you're claiming that the working poor (minimum wage workers) pay 28% income tax?


You are the king of moving goalposts and making up arguments for other people and defending against them.

Congratulations, you master debated yourself.   Nobody said migrant workers pay 28% income tax.
 
2014-05-08 04:09:02 PM  

Nutsac_Jim: Khellendros: So once again, you're claiming that the working poor (minimum wage workers) pay 28% income tax?

You are the king of moving goalposts and making up arguments for other people and defending against them.

Congratulations, you master debated yourself.   Nobody said migrant workers pay 28% income tax.


I walked through every step of my argument and how I didn't move goalposts.  You're just flailing now.

YOUR statement:  "I posted a tax rate (lets call it the tax on milk) and this is garbage to claim this is 'paying taxes' the same as someone paying 28% and you jump in and claim someones knowledge of nominal tax rates is astounding."

You were attempting to equate - in multiple posts - working poor workers as paying 28+% of their income in taxes to illegal aliens paying 4%.  I'll say it again - working poor (migrant workers, minimum wage U.S. workers, however you want to group/classify them) pay almost the same taxes as an illegal alien.  Working poor don't pay 28% income taxes, they pay zero, or close to it, once they file.  They both pay sales and consumer taxes.  And U.S. workers get all of the benefits that illegal aliens don't get.  It's not even close.

You brought up a bone-headed example that is patently false, and got called on it.  There is essentially no difference in taxes paid between the working poor and illegal aliens, and aliens take in FAR less in benefits.  No welfare, medicaid, unemployment, social security, disability, etc.  The tradeoffs on fraud are tiny in comparison to the mass of the federal budget that goes to U.S. citizens that pay very little in taxes.
 
2014-05-08 04:15:23 PM  

muck4doo: Khellendros: Rabid Gerbil: Maybe we should mirror Mexico's immigration policy towards their southern neighbors

Yes.  Let's make ourselves more like Mexico.  Such a shining example.

You sound racist.


How so?  The average person there is a solid, hard working person.  Their government, however, is a corrupt cesspool.  Their laws and political system isn't something to emulate or aspire to.
 
2014-05-08 04:18:14 PM  

Khellendros: The average person there is a solid, hard working person.


What are you basing that on?
 
2014-05-08 04:20:43 PM  

muck4doo: Khellendros: The average person there is a solid, hard working person.

What are you basing that on?


Visiting.  Also living in Texas which has an abnormally high number of Mexican immigrants.  Just like anyone else, in my experience.
 
2014-05-08 04:26:34 PM  

Khellendros: muck4doo: Khellendros: The average person there is a solid, hard working person.

What are you basing that on?

Visiting.  Also living in Texas which has an abnormally high number of Mexican immigrants.  Just like anyone else, in my experience.


Mexican and Texan. We can be as lazy as anyone else. We can be as hard working as anyone else. What annoys me is when people look at me and have expectations based on the color of my skin.
 
2014-05-08 04:30:22 PM  

Bob Robert: ChaosStar: Bob Robert: I know you are one of the worst trolls on here

If that's not the biggest pot and kettle statement I've seen all week, I don't know what it.

You are another angry troll who can't ever debate what I say so you have to drive by insult. I'm not a troll, I stay here and back up my claims. You just can't stand that liberals are educated and have common sense.


Thank you for proving my point repeatedly throughout your nonsensical posts! You lose AND you play baskwtball!
 
2014-05-08 04:45:19 PM  

muck4doo: Khellendros: muck4doo: Khellendros: The average person there is a solid, hard working person.

What are you basing that on?

Visiting.  Also living in Texas which has an abnormally high number of Mexican immigrants.  Just like anyone else, in my experience.

Mexican and Texan. We can be as lazy as anyone else. We can be as hard working as anyone else. What annoys me is when people look at me and have expectations based on the color of my skin.


Too be fair though I was raised in the Bay Area. So that's where the asshole in me was bred.
 
2014-05-08 04:48:39 PM  

muck4doo: Khellendros: muck4doo: Khellendros: The average person there is a solid, hard working person.

What are you basing that on?

Visiting.  Also living in Texas which has an abnormally high number of Mexican immigrants.  Just like anyone else, in my experience.

Mexican and Texan. We can be as lazy as anyone else. We can be as hard working as anyone else. What annoys me is when people look at me and have expectations based on the color of my skin.


That was my point.  When I said "let's make ourselves more like Mexico", that was a sarcastic jab at how corrupt the laws and government are (based on the claim we should adopt their immigration legal policy).  You seemed to assume I was making some sort of racist remark, which I wasn't.  The people, on average, are fine.  Just like anywhere else.  The government is a cesspool, and suggesting we should emulate their policies is not exactly a good goal.
 
2014-05-08 04:56:34 PM  

Khellendros: muck4doo: Khellendros: muck4doo: Khellendros: The average person there is a solid, hard working person.

What are you basing that on?

Visiting.  Also living in Texas which has an abnormally high number of Mexican immigrants.  Just like anyone else, in my experience.

Mexican and Texan. We can be as lazy as anyone else. We can be as hard working as anyone else. What annoys me is when people look at me and have expectations based on the color of my skin.

That was my point.  When I said "let's make ourselves more like Mexico", that was a sarcastic jab at how corrupt the laws and government are (based on the claim we should adopt their immigration legal policy).  You seemed to assume I was making some sort of racist remark, which I wasn't.  The people, on average, are fine.  Just like anywhere else.  The government is a cesspool, and suggesting we should emulate their policies is not exactly a good goal.


Fair enough. I've been accustomed to have expectations of me based on race, and it is just as annoying when they assume good as well as bad. I have been called wetback by kids who are young enough to be my kids, I've been offered tacos and invitations to work "their garden" by the well meaning. In the end it all means the same thing. There isn't enough hate for Samoans.
 
2014-05-08 05:01:32 PM  

Gonz: I've got a real simple solution. It's been proven to work, too. Chances are, it worked for most of all our collective forefathers.

Ready? Here goes: Re-open Ellis Island.

Actually, I think there should be 4 facilities: New York, San Diego, Miami, and Laredo. Check the immigrant's health, run a quick background check, administer an oath, and, congratulations. You're American. Welcome to the Land of Opportunity.

It would cut down on illegal immigration real quick.


What do you have against Canadian immigrants?
 
2014-05-08 05:17:26 PM  

Khellendros: They get roads, and their kids can go to school.  No unemployment, no social security, no medicare, no welfare, no sectioned housing, no EIC credits, the list goes on and on.


Just their kids going to school is a huge expense. And if they have kids they are eligible for all sorts of benefits, especially if the kids are born here.

http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2013/09/16/undocumented-la-county-par en ts-projected-to-receive-650m-in-welfare-benefits/
 
2014-05-08 05:23:24 PM  

DrewCurtisJr: Just their kids going to school is a huge expense. And if they have kids they are eligible for all sorts of benefits, especially if the kids are born here.


Yes, because they're U.S. citizens, and the fact their parents aren't isn't held against them.  Imagine that.
 
2014-05-08 05:27:43 PM  

Khellendros: Yes, because they're U.S. citizens, and the fact their parents aren't isn't held against them. Imagine that.


So what? You think those kids would have just sprouted up here if their parents weren't here in the first place? The fact is they are now here and taking up a tremendous amount of resources because of our lack of enforcement against the parents.
 
2014-05-08 05:31:01 PM  

Emposter: I've been assured by Commander Sisko that the Sanctuary Districts are an essential part of achieving the next golden age.

Stop farking with the temporal prime directive Subby


Never forget Gabriel Bell's sacrifice.
 
2014-05-08 05:56:55 PM  

Bob Robert: Random Anonymous Blackmail: I am not going to argue numbers with you, even Wikipedia does not consider it a credible source which in itself is ironic. Resource in the link below.

Link

Don't be so defensive next time.

Try not to be such an obvious concerned troll, pulling out the wiki not a valid source is what little kids who can't debate the facts do. Click on the citations provided in the wikipedia article and prove it wrong or stfu and stop being defensive and whinny


You being defensive about wiki links while arguing yesterday that WSJ links are wrong because they counter your ignorant preconcieved bias is the height of hilarity.
 
2014-05-08 05:57:36 PM  

Silverstaff: Emposter: I've been assured by Commander Sisko that the Sanctuary Districts are an essential part of achieving the next golden age.

Stop farking with the temporal prime directive Subby

Never forget Gabriel Bell's sacrifice.


Took 8 pages, but someone got it!  High five!

/on season 4, episode 22 right now
 
2014-05-08 06:08:45 PM  

Nadie_AZ: Let's start helping Mexico be a place that Mexicans want to live in.


We already do.
 
2014-05-08 06:19:11 PM  
As someone who has brought two people into the US legally, yes, it is difficult, frustrating, and a real pita to make it happen. If you don't have a sponsor or family member here already, your chances of actually getting a legal entry/work visa are slim and none, especially if coming from a third world country.

I got married while working overseas in Thailand in the 90s. Back then it was the INS rather than Homeland Security that handled things. That part went pretty smooth. Getting the visa was more difficult. I remember the Embassy telling us that she had to get a physical, to check for TB, AIDS, etc so we went out to the closest hospital, paid $200 to get a physical with chest x-rays and such. The next day were back at the Embassy with our paperwork only to be told, "Oh, we only accept results from one of these hospitals, not the one you went to." It would have been nice if they had provided that tidbit of wisdom the day before, instead of just telling us to get a physical - $200 down the drain. We eventually got processed and came to the US.

We decided to leave my stepson with his grandparents there while I located a job, bought a house, and got settled. We started the process to get him over here in 2000, and in August 2001, the INS granted him green card status. We started the Visa process for him, and once again that is where things got hung up. Visas are issued by the State Dept, and right after we had applied, 9/11 happened so everything quit getting processed and was in limbo. The INS said it was okay for him to live here, but the Dept of State said he couldn't come here. 15 months later in November 2002  the Dept of State finally issued him an Entry Visa. I am proud to say he is now on his second enlistment in the US Navy.
 
2014-05-08 06:20:14 PM  
Que?
 
2014-05-08 06:29:06 PM  
I heard on Fark that I am a hard working person based my skin color. Hire me now to balance your check books.
 
2014-05-08 06:37:59 PM  

dropdfun: Either that or they do and dream about seeing our country devolve into some third world shiat hole due to absorbing mainly an uneducated and unskilled workforce.


Has their ever been a point in American history when immigrants weren't a largely uneducated and unskilled workforce? That's the whole point of the big green lady over there in NYC...give us your beat-down people and let them work here.

There were just as many broke-ass white people coming over in the past 200 years as there are now broke-ass brown people. The difference seems to be the tenor of the argument has changed from "hey I bet they have a dream!" to "Hey I bet they have a gun!"
 
2014-05-08 06:45:51 PM  

Bob Robert: TomD9938: Bob Robert: Friction8r: Liberals want amnesty for Illegal Immigrants to sign them up as democrat voters. Film at 11.

Except according to so many Republicans, illegals are very religious and conservative, they just need to learn the Republican platform and then they will vote GOP.

Hispanic = Illegal?

Yes, a growing portion of the GOP wants to give amnesty for illegals who are mostly hispanic and they believe enough of them can be convinced that they are really conservative.


Amnesty for the sober, church-going ones, getting rounded up and kicked out for the dope-smoking commie ones.

/hey, it's our country, we can set whatever rules we want.
 
2014-05-08 07:39:52 PM  

Scrotastic Method: Has their ever been a point in American history when immigrants weren't a largely uneducated and unskilled workforce? That's the whole point of the big green lady over there in NYC...give us your beat-down people and let them work here.


This might surprise you, but that inscription is not legislation.
 
2014-05-08 07:59:17 PM  

gfid: Scrotastic Method: Has their ever been a point in American history when immigrants weren't a largely uneducated and unskilled workforce? That's the whole point of the big green lady over there in NYC...give us your beat-down people and let them work here.

This might surprise you, but that inscription is not legislation.


Not surprising. But if that inscription is no longer part of our values we should take it down.
 
2014-05-08 08:27:57 PM  

Mcavity: You Are All Sheep:

Is it THAT hard to come over her legally?  or are they doing it to avoid the costs of being a citizen?  Or because they are criminals?

Umm Yes. Yes it is.


http://immigrationroad.com/green-card/immigration-flowchart-roadmap- to -green-card.pdf

Or if you want the simple breakdown..

http://wikifreccia.wikispaces.com/file/view/immigration%20graphic.jp g/ 347266900/immigration%20graphic.jpg


I like that chart and have shared it many times. Dammit, we need to make immigration easier. I'm very much against illegal immigration, and don't really like the straight up amnesty, because we need to expedite the process so that people who want to be here can be citizens.
 
2014-05-08 10:07:39 PM  

Khellendros: You were attempting to equate - in multiple posts - working poor workers as paying 28+% of their income in taxes to illegal aliens paying 4%.


Not once was I even talking about working poor.  You think working poor are in the 28% bracket + state tax?
 
2014-05-08 10:14:32 PM  

Khellendros: You brought up a bone-headed example that is patently false, and got called on it.  There is essentially no difference in taxes paid between the working poor and illegal aliens, and aliens take in FAR less in benefits.  No welfare, medicaid, unemployment, social security, disability, etc.  The tradeoffs on fraud are tiny in comparison to the mass of the federal budget that goes to U.S. citizens that pay very little in taxes.


like I already said, you and I are apparently talking about different people.  I was never talking about working poor.

 Working poor pay very little in tax and will likely actually absorb money at tax time.

I do not have an argument against the fact that a working poor citizen pays no income tax and neither does an illegal.
The fact that a citizen gets some extra benefits that an illegal does not just goes along with being a fortunate place to be poor.  Thats the bonus the citizen gets.

Shall we cut all government benefits unless a citizen pays income tax?
 
2014-05-08 11:20:00 PM  

Khellendros: Nutsac_Jim: Khellendros: So again I say - your understanding of labor pools and nominal tax rates is astounding.  Translation - you don't know what the fark you're talking about, and you're trying to wiggle out of it by claiming I'm moving goalposts.

I posted a tax rate (lets call it the tax on milk) and this is garbage to claim this is 'paying taxes' the same as someone paying 28% and you jump in and claim someones knowledge of nominal tax rates is astounding.
The point is that claiming they pay their taxes because some worker at 7-11 MAY collect a sales tax is disingenuous.

Tell me.  What is the nominal income tax rate of someone who has income, but no taxable income.

So once again, you're claiming that the working poor (minimum wage workers) pay 28% income tax?  Have you ever filled out a 1040 on $18,000 total income?  You do not pay over $5,000 of taxes on that.  You pay roughly zero, and qualify for tax subsidies, welfare, medicaid, etc.

You are correct, illegal alien income is not taxed beyond consumer taxes.  But their benefits on that income is well below what a citizen gets for the taxes they do pay.  They get roads, and their kids can go to school.  No unemployment, no social security, no medicare, no welfare, no sectioned housing, no EIC credits, the list goes on and on.  Their use of services vs. income is more positive than the bottom fifth of citizen workers (the working poor) who do pay taxes and use public funds and services.

So no, you seem to have no clue what what you're talking about on nominal tax rates.


Well, let's see.  I've got some tax software here...

So, a single self employed person with no dependents making $18,000 after business deductions would pay $3,274 in federal income tax.  Let's say our hypothetical person lives in Massachusetts.  That's another $714 in state income tax, bringing us to $3,988.  So no, not 28% - it's only 22.15%.
 
2014-05-09 12:35:23 AM  

DarkVader: Khellendros: Nutsac_Jim: Khellendros: So again I say - your understanding of labor pools and nominal tax rates is astounding.  Translation - you don't know what the fark you're talking about, and you're trying to wiggle out of it by claiming I'm moving goalposts.

I posted a tax rate (lets call it the tax on milk) and this is garbage to claim this is 'paying taxes' the same as someone paying 28% and you jump in and claim someones knowledge of nominal tax rates is astounding.
The point is that claiming they pay their taxes because some worker at 7-11 MAY collect a sales tax is disingenuous.

Tell me.  What is the nominal income tax rate of someone who has income, but no taxable income.

So once again, you're claiming that the working poor (minimum wage workers) pay 28% income tax?  Have you ever filled out a 1040 on $18,000 total income?  You do not pay over $5,000 of taxes on that.  You pay roughly zero, and qualify for tax subsidies, welfare, medicaid, etc.

You are correct, illegal alien income is not taxed beyond consumer taxes.  But their benefits on that income is well below what a citizen gets for the taxes they do pay.  They get roads, and their kids can go to school.  No unemployment, no social security, no medicare, no welfare, no sectioned housing, no EIC credits, the list goes on and on.  Their use of services vs. income is more positive than the bottom fifth of citizen workers (the working poor) who do pay taxes and use public funds and services.

So no, you seem to have no clue what what you're talking about on nominal tax rates.

Well, let's see.  I've got some tax software here...

So, a single self employed person with no dependents making $18,000 after business deductions would pay $3,274 in federal income tax.  Let's say our hypothetical person lives in Massachusetts.  That's another $714 in state income tax, bringing us to $3,988.  So no, not 28% - it's only 22.15%.


In this day and age, taxing the first $30,000 of income is unconscionable.
 
2014-05-09 09:23:55 AM  

DarkVader: Well, let's see. I've got some tax software here...

So, a single self employed person with no dependents making $18,000 after business deductions would pay $3,274 in federal income tax. Let's say our hypothetical person lives in Massachusetts. That's another $714 in state income tax, bringing us to $3,988. So no, not 28% - it's only 22.15%.


Nice try, but no.  The current tax table puts $18,000 as $2,258 tax - which is the highest number assuming you're filing single with no dependents.  But, oh wait, there's this thing called a standard exemption.  Which drops that number to about $900, even less if you're filing married.  Have kids? Dependents?  Qualify for an EIC?  Now you're not only not paying any income taxes, they're SENDING you money because your tax burden is negative.

But thanks for playing.
 
2014-05-09 01:05:11 PM  

Khellendros: DarkVader: Well, let's see. I've got some tax software here...

So, a single self employed person with no dependents making $18,000 after business deductions would pay $3,274 in federal income tax. Let's say our hypothetical person lives in Massachusetts. That's another $714 in state income tax, bringing us to $3,988. So no, not 28% - it's only 22.15%.

Nice try, but no.  The current tax table puts $18,000 as $2,258 tax - which is the highest number assuming you're filing single with no dependents.  But, oh wait, there's this thing called a standard exemption.  Which drops that number to about $900, even less if you're filing married.  Have kids? Dependents?  Qualify for an EIC?  Now you're not only not paying any income taxes, they're SENDING you money because your tax burden is negative.

But thanks for playing.


Missed the whole "self employed" part, didn't you? Also the part about  single and  no dependents? Also add in that the EIC is not available to those without a valid Social Security number and just about everything you posted in rebuttal is incorrect.
 
2014-05-09 03:49:16 PM  

Khellendros: DrewCurtisJr: Just their kids going to school is a huge expense. And if they have kids they are eligible for all sorts of benefits, especially if the kids are born here.

Yes, because they're U.S. citizens, and the fact their parents aren't isn't held against them.  Imagine that.


Just because you were squeezed out on this side of the border should not make you an instant citizen.
You should only be a citizen if one or both of your parents are citizens.

And don't me any bullshiat about how that is unfair, Indians that were here for thousands of years didn't get US citizenship until the 1920's so cry me a river you lawbreaking illegals.
 
2014-05-09 06:08:41 PM  

Nadie_AZ: unknownshooter: FunkyBlue:

There is a chance many become criminals because they can't get a decent job because they don't have residency paperwork because it takes an inordinate amount of time and money to gain full citizenship and while this might be the "Land of the Free", you still have to make money somehow to survive.

Yeah - I know all about how long and expensive the process is to come here legally, the wife did it (from Canada) - it took years and cost thousands of dollars.

You wanna make it cheaper and easier to sneak in?

How about, " GTFO and don't let the door hit you in the ass? "

GTFO hasn't worked. "Come on in everyone" hasn't worked either. Got a better solution? Everyone is interested.

The local newspaper ran an article a few years ago about different countries and their approach to immigration (illegal and legal) and they ran the gamete totally open border to totally closed and the answers really were about the same: nothing seemed to really work.

So let's stop being stupid children who want to see the world as black and white and start actually coming up with ideas. I've an idea. Let's start helping Mexico be a place that Mexicans want to live in. If it is a great place, they'll start wanting to stay. How many Americans do you see going to Mexico or Guatemala to live? I mean that they'd sneak across the desert and undergo hardships to live in those countries.


Better solution: invade Mexico, if you want to run the country for them (because its evident they don't want to), plus we get the added bonus of have a smaller border to share with Guatemala and Belize which is easier to defend.
 
2014-05-09 06:17:39 PM  

Bob Robert: fatandolder: My ancestors went through a legal process to become US citizen. I do not understand the hypocrisy you speak of.

Riiight... they probably showed up at Ellis Island like most and if they could breathe they became citizens.

Every hypocrite here complaining about illegals comes from the same type of immigrants. There were no legal holes you had to jump through like there are today, you are the I got mine fark you generation.


So you're saying laws should never be changed in an attempt to improve a situation? Or are you saying that people shouldn't have to follow laws that weren't ALWAYS on the books?
 
2014-05-09 06:27:01 PM  

Bob Robert: DrewCurtisJr: Nonsense. Deported by who?

They are afraid of using any services for fear of being found and deported, whether right or wrong this is their fear. They stay under the radar.

DrewCurtisJr: You think everyone's ancestors came here voluntarily huh? And you may want to look up the Chinese exclusion act.

I didn't say everyone, I said all the loud mouth hypocritical conservatives. Try not to fall off your ladder when building that strawman, I know you are one of the worst trolls on here


Capo Del Bandito: Wait are you seriously saying that 'we've been doing it for so long, just keep doing it instead of imposing laws and orders'?

I'm married to a legal immigrant so getting a kick and all out of this but the rules are there for a reason. Saying 'fark it cuz some stuff is hard' earns a self righteous 'go fark yourself'. Immigrating from a 3rd world country is a biatch. But so is life. Learn to deal.

The rules are here for a reason, they are new rules that didn't exist for most people who could just show up. The rules were changed during one of the most xenophobic and racist times in American history.

The rules are designed so immigrants from 3rd world countries find it almost impossible to come to America so they take the long hard route and work their asses off once here. America should open its arms to anyone that has such a strong work ethic and is so dedicated.


How do you feel about opening your arms to people who willfully, knowingly, and unapologetically break the law?  You do know laws are the basic social construct of society right? Do you like to play Monopoly with cheaters?
 
2014-05-09 06:44:57 PM  

Bob Robert: jayphat: Lol wut? You do know that personnel stationed here in the US go on practice runs all the time, yes?

And all without actively operating on American soil, if they want real live targets they can get shipped overseas to any one of the numerous undeclared war zones.


You sir, are a fool.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Sands_Missile_Range

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nevada_Test_and_Training_Range

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_M._Goldwater_Air_Force_Range


And that's not all of them...
 
2014-05-09 06:49:10 PM  

Bob Robert: Danger Mouse: Boring but true.

I don't understand liberals utter failure to recognize why unchecked immagration is a bad idea .

America had over a century of unchecked immigration, it turned into the most powerful and richest country in the world, your white boy cries wolf is noted and laughed at


At least its always easy to identify the racists...they're usually the only one's to mention race or color.  Your bigotry is sad and shameful. Enjoy hating white people just 'cause.
 
2014-05-09 06:58:10 PM  

Epic Fap Session: Let's apply the same laws and standards today to Mexican immigrants that were applied to all the European immigrant ancestors that many Farkers are proud to cite.


Well shiat, lets just apply ALL of the old laws right? Child labor, minimum wage, abortion, etc. I mean, we had them for others, we should make it fair and apply them the same today!
 
2014-05-09 07:08:24 PM  

Bob Robert: This only works if an illegal files a tax return. Do you really believe they do it?


They do all sorts of tax scams. For example:

Q: Does the IRS pay billions in tax refunds to workers who are in the U.S. illegally?

A: Yes. The Treasury Department's Inspector General determined that $4.2 billion was paid in 2010, up from less than $1 billion in 2005. Leading Democrats are resisting a bill that would stop future payments.



 http://www.factcheck.org/2012/05/tax-credits-for-illegal-immigrants /
 
2014-05-09 07:18:25 PM  

Scrotastic Method: dropdfun: Either that or they do and dream about seeing our country devolve into some third world shiat hole due to absorbing mainly an uneducated and unskilled workforce.

Has their ever been a point in American history when immigrants weren't a largely uneducated and unskilled workforce? That's the whole point of the big green lady over there in NYC...give us your beat-down people and let them work here.

There were just as many broke-ass white people coming over in the past 200 years as there are now broke-ass brown people. The difference seems to be the tenor of the argument has changed from "hey I bet they have a dream!" to "Hey I bet they have a gun!"


That shift also occurred roughly around the time when we shifted from being a manufacturing powerhouse in nearly every industry to a service industry that's been streamlined and requires fewer resident workers (relatively not absolutely).
 
2014-05-09 07:32:52 PM  

zepher: Khellendros: DrewCurtisJr: Just their kids going to school is a huge expense. And if they have kids they are eligible for all sorts of benefits, especially if the kids are born here.

Yes, because they're U.S. citizens, and the fact their parents aren't isn't held against them.  Imagine that.

Just because you were squeezed out on this side of the border should not make you an instant citizen.
You should only be a citizen if one or both of your parents are citizens.


And don't me any bullshiat about how that is unfair, Indians that were here for thousands of years didn't get US citizenship until the 1920's so cry me a river you lawbreaking illegals.


In case you hadn't noticed, the Constitution is really farking hard to amend nowadays, and short of that, we're stuck with the rules as they are.
 
2014-05-09 07:32:54 PM  

Bob Robert: Your link says that the illegals are getting credits because of their legal children not from claimed wages. Troll harder.


1. It shows that they do indeed file returns (So again you don't know what you are talking about)

2.  Non-citizen children can qualify if they are legally residents and have at least an ITIN. And the requirements aren't vigorously enforced. The IG report said the IRS management doesn't demand that parents submit documentation to prove that the children they are claiming actually reside in the U.S., something the IG recommended and IRS management said it lacked legal authority to do. So it is at least possible that some refunds are being paid based on children who aren't citizens, or who aren't even living in the U.S.


Read harder, or take the easy way out and cry troll again instead of acknowledging the facts. I think we both know which choice you'll continue to make.
 
2014-05-09 07:33:36 PM  

Bob Robert: deadlyplatypus: How do you feel about opening your arms to people who willfully, knowingly, and unapologetically break the law? You do know laws are the basic social construct of society right? Do you like to play Monopoly with cheaters?

Are you one of those douchebags who goes slow in the fast lane to try and teach a lesson to those pathetic unapologetic lawbreakers that speed?

The immigration laws were a recent addition and totally racist in nature. Your ancestors came here and became citizens just by showing up. You are nothing but a pathetic hypocrite if you demand new would be citizens jump through hoops nobody else did.

No I don't like playing with cheaters, that's why I am not a libertarian who thinks people will self regulate.


I drive the speed limit (or relatively close) believe it or not, even on the 340 mile stretches of nearly uninhabited highway I used to regularly drive in South Dakota when I knew I wouldn't see a cop between New Underwood and Mitchell.

Please, show me in writing how the laws are racist.  Are our laws written specifically with language as to the race, religion, nationality, gender, or disability of people?  APPLICATION of those laws may be racist and if that's true I have a problem with it.

 How do you know anything about my ancestors? Only racists make  assumptions like that with NO factual basis.  Care to tell everyone which countries my ancestors came from and cite where you got your information?

 I am in no way a hypocrite (at least in regards to this debate). When my ancestors (to my knowledge) immigrated, they FOLLOWED THE LAWS on the books at the time, it doesn't matter how hard it was, the law is the law.  Whether or not we need to change the process for gaining citizenship is a completely different debate than whether or not we hold people accountable for following or breaking laws. Apparently, you're of the opinion that laws should never change nor new laws added because that would affect new people differently than people in the past, which is ridiculous on its face.

I don't like playing with cheaters either...cheaters are people who don't play by the rules does that description sound familiar?
 
2014-05-09 07:34:55 PM  

Bob Robert: deadlyplatypus: Bob Robert: jayphat: Lol wut? You do know that personnel stationed here in the US go on practice runs all the time, yes?

And all without actively operating on American soil, if they want real live targets they can get shipped overseas to any one of the numerous undeclared war zones.

You sir, are a fool.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Sands_Missile_Range

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nevada_Test_and_Training_Range

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barry_M._Goldwater_Air_Force_Range


And that's not all of them...

I'm the fool yet your links have nothing to do with actual humans being the targets at those ranges like jayphat wants? Read what I wrote again, this time sober.


I did read what you wrote...
 
2014-05-09 07:40:48 PM  

Bob Robert: deadlyplatypus: Bob Robert: Danger Mouse: Boring but true.

I don't understand liberals utter failure to recognize why unchecked immagration is a bad idea .

America had over a century of unchecked immigration, it turned into the most powerful and richest country in the world, your white boy cries wolf is noted and laughed at

At least its always easy to identify the racists...they're usually the only one's to mention race or color.  Your bigotry is sad and shameful. Enjoy hating white people just 'cause.

You're a racist for pointing out my racism. That didn't take long.

It's always the self hating conservatives who try and project that onto liberals who point out basic history and common sense. You came to America and had to do nothing to be a citizen, but a bunch of brown people start coming and you go nuts and try to do everything to stop them. But I'm the real racist... got it.


I'm not trying to stop them, I just want them to follow the laws, just like I want Canadians, Ukrainians, Australians, Bulgarians, and a whole host of folks to do.  If they don't want to even follow the laws to get into the country, I don't want them here.

Lol, yep I sure am a racist, that's why I've spent so much time talking about "white boys crying" and people only hating "brown people." The only time I've mentioned or even hinted at race or nationality is in response to your nonsensical rantings. You are just like all of the rest of your lot screaming "YOU are all racists and if you don't agree with me you're even worse!"  Maybe you should look up what racism is.
 
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