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(Runner's World)   The maker of FiveFingers running shoes agree to foot the bill for false and unsubstantiated claims about the health benefits of looking like an idiot   (runnersworld.com) divider line 53
    More: Fail, FiveFingers, Vibram, FiveFingers running shoes, class-action, claim forms, Runner's World, escrow account, proof of purchase  
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2072 clicks; posted to Business » on 07 May 2014 at 8:38 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-07 06:49:03 PM  
I just thought they were shoes for people who couldn't count to twenty.
 
2014-05-07 07:03:40 PM  
On the plus side: discount on shoes that make your feet smell like a tire fire.
 
2014-05-07 09:09:08 PM  
this is exactly why I advertised my 5 toe shoes as "stupid looking" and "likely to make people hate you"
 
2014-05-07 09:16:13 PM  
I've heard a similar story before:25.media.tumblr.com
 
2014-05-07 09:17:14 PM  
I've never seen anyone wearing those shoes, and if I did I would remember it because I usually remember a five-minute stretch where I almost choke because I'm laughing so hard.
 
2014-05-07 09:17:56 PM  
Shoes you run differently in will strengthen different muscles. Strengthening muscles is good for them and joint injuries near the strengthened muscle.

How much science do you really need for that statement?

The shoes look stupid, I can't fit my crooked toes in them anyways nor do I run anymore,but who really gives a shiat if others want to forefoot run? (which I actually liked - seemed better on my knees /shrug).
 
2014-05-07 09:20:51 PM  

Danger Avoid Death: I just thought they were shoes for people who couldn't count to twenty.


Or people who like to do squats, and would prefer to do them barefoot, but can't because of health regulations. 

I'm not going to drop $189 on weightlifting shoes that compress in the heel and make me unstable, when I can drop $50 on Vibrams that work perfectly.

But I wouldn't run in them or wear them in generally public situations.
 
2014-05-07 09:26:59 PM  

whistleridge: Danger Avoid Death: I just thought they were shoes for people who couldn't count to twenty.

Or people who like to do squats, and would prefer to do them barefoot, but can't because of health regulations. 

I'm not going to drop $189 on weightlifting shoes that compress in the heel and make me unstable, when I can drop $50 on Vibrams that work perfectly.

But I wouldn't run in them or wear them in generally public situations.


This.

They are good for deadlifts and squats. I just go sock footed, but wouldn't be opposed to using these shoes for those lifts.
 
kab
2014-05-07 09:31:02 PM  
In other news, subby cries himself to sleep each evening, wondering why people continue liking what he doesn't.
 
2014-05-07 09:33:31 PM  
My knees are pretty farked. I cam make it 2 miles and still walk the next day every once in a while. If I try to forefoot strike, or wear unpadded shoes, I won't make it a mile, and I will always be hobbled the next day. Besides, the toe shoes feel funny on my toes. I guess I won't be getting $25 back for getting scammed, since I could never see any reason to buy a pair of those Vibram gimmick shoes in the first place.
 
2014-05-07 09:40:51 PM  
I have a pair of them and ran in them a couple times.  Then I switched back to regular running shoes and hid the Vibrams in the closet.  They aren't that comfortable, and are humiliating to wear in public.  The only times I will ever wear them anymore are for basic working out.
 
2014-05-07 10:23:30 PM  
You can get them as the same minimal sole thickness without the stupid toes.
 
2014-05-07 10:48:33 PM  
Of course, as a professional tulip tip-toer, i use only toe socks anyway
 
2014-05-07 11:03:01 PM  

Smackledorfer: Shoes you run differently in will strengthen different muscles. Strengthening muscles is good for them and joint injuries near the strengthened muscle.

How much science do you really need for that statement?

The shoes look stupid, I can't fit my crooked toes in them anyways nor do I run anymore,but who really gives a shiat if others want to forefoot run? (which I actually liked - seemed better on my knees /shrug).




I'm glad they made barefoot shoes a trendy thing. I have the vapor glove from Merrell. Ridiculously thin and flexible, but doesn't have that silly toe glove thing goin on. I kind of hate shoes and feel clumsy in them, I like being able to grip the ground and move my foot more than most shoes allow. Barefoot shoes are nice for not being clumsy and not having bad balance, and also not getting tetanus.

Then again, it's possible I have something neurological goin on messing with my balance. So. They could just be a weird way of accommodating that.
 
2014-05-07 11:05:41 PM  
Minimalist shoes are a lie and if anyone thinks they can cruise around running on sidewalk or anything harder than sand or mulched trails...they are in for a world of hurt.

Repetitive shock on hard surfaces have been effectively mitigated with the current shoe technology.  Running barefoot or using shoes that try to get you close will screw you up.

Don't believe me? go ahead try to log 20+ miles a week on a minimalist shoe.
There is a place for these shoes, Not for a committed/daily runner.
 
2014-05-07 11:14:51 PM  
Price is ridiculous.  I only get them with the Fivefinger discount.
 
2014-05-07 11:19:22 PM  
The paleo wonks are going to need new shoes.
 
2014-05-07 11:19:24 PM  
I want a pair of 4 fingers for my mutant feet.
 
2014-05-07 11:32:19 PM  
Passing fads like this only succeed as long as they do because of the hype... I say, what a croc.
 
2014-05-07 11:34:47 PM  

I_Like_Pie: Minimalist shoes are a lie and if anyone thinks they can cruise around running on sidewalk or anything harder than sand or mulched trails...they are in for a world of hurt.

Repetitive shock on hard surfaces have been effectively mitigated with the current shoe technology.  Running barefoot or using shoes that try to get you close will screw you up.

Don't believe me? go ahead try to log 20+ miles a week on a minimalist shoe.
There is a place for these shoes, Not for a committed/daily runner.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barefoot_running

Wikipedia makes it sound a lot more complicated that. Wouldn't it have a lot to do with the way a person's joints and legs are shaped and how they walk? Seems like the mechanics of barefoot running could be gentler for people with certain knee problems, from the descriptions of the physiology on Wikipedia. I've mostly just looked into it because I always ran through the house sort of on tip toe when I was a kid, liked the control it gave me. And it felt gentler, like the impact was easier to control with my ankles.

/bad knees
//think its a weird q angle or something? I forget, I saw a specialist for it once because my kneecap kept slipping out of place and he said it was just the angle of my knees or something
 
2014-05-07 11:34:58 PM  

whistleridge: Danger Avoid Death: I just thought they were shoes for people who couldn't count to twenty.

Or people who like to do squats, and would prefer to do them barefoot, but can't because of health regulations. 

I'm not going to drop $189 on weightlifting shoes that compress in the heel and make me unstable, when I can drop $50 on Vibrams that work perfectly.

But I wouldn't run in them or wear them in generally public situations.


I don't think I've ever seen them for close to $50, more like $80-$100.  Chuck Taylor's on the otherhand are under $50, work great for squating heavy and deadlifting and last really well.
 
2014-05-07 11:35:27 PM  
I have several pair of FF and I love them.  They are great for casual walking around and the best thing ever for keeping my feet from getting funky in the hot summer months.  That said, they would be crap to run in or say spend a week walking around Disney (or standing all day more like).  They also offer little protection from trash and what not in an urban setting and you sure as hell feel gravel through them.
 
2014-05-07 11:42:16 PM  

I_Like_Pie: Minimalist shoes are a lie and if anyone thinks they can cruise around running on sidewalk or anything harder than sand or mulched trails...they are in for a world of hurt.

Repetitive shock on hard surfaces have been effectively mitigated with the current shoe technology.  Running barefoot or using shoes that try to get you close will screw you up.

Don't believe me? go ahead try to log 20+ miles a week on a minimalist shoe.
There is a place for these shoes, Not for a committed/daily runner.


Really? all those barefoot Kenyans winning marathons would beg to differ. You can't strap on minimalist shoes and go on your normal run, especially if you're a heel striker. Heel striking is only possible if wearing cushioned shoes. If you're used to running in overly cushioned shoes it could take a lot of work to switch.

The body was designed to run hitting toe first. There was a documentary, called Born to Run or something similar, I caught on Smithsonian and there is a mechanical advantage to landing toe first.
 
2014-05-08 12:02:34 AM  
I've been running about.. 15 years now? Something like that. Varied from 10+/wk to 50+ depending on the season, etc. over the years. Used to use padded shoes (heel strike), but my knees would often give me trouble. Several friends over the years stopped running due to knee and foot problems due to running.

I switched to 5 fingers 2 years ago (bikilas, like in the suit), and it took awhile to adjust to forefoot running style (3 months to work back up distance wise, had to be gentle as I just didn't have the strength), but well worth it. No more knee or joint issues, and a lot more power when I run (more 'oomf', better connected to the ground). Also great for lifting.

I run on a mix of asphalt, concrete, dirt, and gravel. Feel the gravel a bit, but has never been an issue. They have dealt with small amounts of broken bottles and other glass/debris, but wouldn't want to push it.

Also got AMAZING calves out of it.

A year ago I ran when it was raining, and ran 4 miles on asphalt and concrete (no gravel obviously) completely barefoot because I didn't want to get them wet. Had no issues (just had to watch where I was stepping) except some minor abrasion. No pain or discomfort. Last time I did that with padded shoes (heel strike) in the rain it blew out the foam and I had sore feet for a week+.

I'll take my money from the settlement, and use it to buy another pair of shoes. I really like them. They do look absolutely ridiculous though.

Overall they are less forgiving. You need to have proper form and pay attention to your body. They make it a lot easier to do that however, and frankly I'll never run in padded shoes again.
 
2014-05-08 12:06:30 AM  
I have a few pairs of minimalist shoes, made by Merrill. The loafers look a bit like moccasins, but are passable in a 'normal' office. The running shoes are fine.

I tried a quick change to running in minimalist shoes, and it didn't work out so great. The worst part was my calf muscle getting really sore after a mile or two, mostly due to over-exaggerating my forefoot strike, because my foot muscles weren't built up and the stride was unfamiliar to me.

Then I wore the moccasins around the office for a couple weeks. That took some getting used to, I had some heel strike pain as I worked up my foot muscles.
After that two weeks though, I went out running again in the minimal Merrills, and it was AWESOME- almost like I had new feet.

Now, I'm a more casual runner, I'll do 3-4.5 miles a few times a week. The minimalist running shoe works great for me. I can no longer wear thick shoes when I'm running because my quads tense up immediately. I wear the moccasin loafers when I'm at home or the office, and 'normal' shoes every where else. I have friends with the same experiences.

'Born to Run' is a great book that you should read if you're interested in doing anything besides walking on your feet.

That being said, I don't have Vibram Five Fingers, and if I did, I would only run in them.
 
2014-05-08 12:13:16 AM  
yep, the merrell vapor gloves are pretty great.  I got a pair around a year ago.  At first I just wore them to work out, ended up hurting a foot a bit because I did too much distance/intensity too soon with them.  needed a few months to shift to toe striking. great for deadlifts or box jump kinds of things.  they're so comfortable and look enough like a normal shoe that I just started wearing them all the time.  Running on gravel sucks, I need to pay a lot of attention to where I'm stepping and that's not foolproof. I hike in them and miss a lot of scenery because I'm always looking where my feet go (stupid Appalachian trail has too many rocks) but I'm much less likely to trip or twist an ankle that way.  Stepping in puddles sucks as they breath so much the water goes right through.
 
2014-05-08 12:37:49 AM  
If you run the correct way, they work just fine. They're also way easier to pack in a suitcase to take on business trips. I also couldn't care less what I look like when I go running.
 
2014-05-08 01:13:22 AM  

whistleridge: Danger Avoid Death: I just thought they were shoes for people who couldn't count to twenty.

Or people who like to do squats, and would prefer to do them barefoot, but can't because of health regulations.

I'm not going to drop $189 on weightlifting shoes that compress in the heel and make me unstable, when I can drop $50 on Vibrams that work perfectly.

But I wouldn't run in them or wear them in generally public situations.


How much do you squat that this matters? I am not being snarky, I am new to lifting but squat a decent amount (~250) and just use my cross trainers. Should I be changing shoes as I move up? Am I doing it wrong?
 
2014-05-08 01:25:41 AM  
i.imgur.com
 
2014-05-08 01:51:28 AM  

You're the jerk... jerk: whistleridge: Danger Avoid Death: I just thought they were shoes for people who couldn't count to twenty.

Or people who like to do squats, and would prefer to do them barefoot, but can't because of health regulations.

I'm not going to drop $189 on weightlifting shoes that compress in the heel and make me unstable, when I can drop $50 on Vibrams that work perfectly.

But I wouldn't run in them or wear them in generally public situations.

How much do you squat that this matters? I am not being snarky, I am new to lifting but squat a decent amount (~250) and just use my cross trainers. Should I be changing shoes as I move up? Am I doing it wrong?


The amount of weight you throw around doesn't mitigate the importance of balance and form. If no shoes is better for a guy doing huge squats it is still good for a guy doing 150 or even body weight squats.
 
2014-05-08 02:49:00 AM  
If you heel strike it's not your shoe, it's your running form.
 
2014-05-08 06:40:16 AM  
birthdayshoes.com
 
2014-05-08 06:59:54 AM  

You're the jerk... jerk: whistleridge: Danger Avoid Death: I just thought they were shoes for people who couldn't count to twenty.

Or people who like to do squats, and would prefer to do them barefoot, but can't because of health regulations.

I'm not going to drop $189 on weightlifting shoes that compress in the heel and make me unstable, when I can drop $50 on Vibrams that work perfectly.

But I wouldn't run in them or wear them in generally public situations.

How much do you squat that this matters? I am not being snarky, I am new to lifting but squat a decent amount (~250) and just use my cross trainers. Should I be changing shoes as I move up? Am I doing it wrong?


All a cross-trainer does is introduce a compression zone between your foot and the floor. The cushioning is great for your knees in a ballistic activity like running, but in a static movement like a squat, all you're doing is wearing out the cushioning in your shoes that much quicker.

This is even more true since I do ass to grass squats, 3 times per week. I used to wear shoes out every 3-6 months. I've had the same Vibrams for 4 years.
 
2014-05-08 07:30:18 AM  
News flash: Shoes can't magically make you healthy no matter how much you spend.
 
2014-05-08 07:55:31 AM  

abhorrent1: News flash: Shoes can't magically make you healthy no matter how much you spend.


What about Earth Shoes?
 
2014-05-08 08:00:23 AM  

vudukungfu: abhorrent1: News flash: Shoes can't magically make you healthy no matter how much you spend.

What about Earth Shoes?


HA! I wore those when I was a kid.

/old
 
2014-05-08 08:16:41 AM  

abhorrent1: News flash: Shoes can't magically make you healthy no matter how much you spend.


True. But I would argue that shoes can easily make you unhealthy. Probably the worst thing in the world to wear are high heels, but that doesn't stop women from buying them.



wingnut396: ;That said, they would be crap to run in or say spend a week walking around Disney (or standing all day more like).  They also offer little protection from trash and what not in an urban setting and you sure as hell feel gravel through them.




Actually, I just got back from walking around in them on a Disney trip. as long as you've taken the time to change your gait, it's not an issue. Granted, I probably wouldn't do any long term running on concrete in them, but for trail running, they rock. But part of the point of wearing them is so you CAN feel the gravel and make adjustments "on the fly" with your body instead of sliding around randomly on gravel that you aren't detecting.

And they do provide more protection than the 40% of people walking around in $5 flip flops and sandals. Actually, Vibram soles are pretty puncture resistant in general (that's why a huge chunk of the hiking boot segment uses Vibrams for soles). Odds are, if something is going to go through the bottom of a pair of FiveFingers, its probably going to puncture through 60% of the casual shoe market.

(as a side note, there were more people at Disney wearing Nike Air Rifts (the other obviously weird shoe) than FiveFingers from what I could see. I'm assuming that those were European tourists, considering that Nike doesn't sell the Air Rifts stateside anymore)

//granted if you can't get over how they look, yeah, then there's not much I can do for that
 
2014-05-08 08:21:30 AM  

relaxitsjustme: If you heel strike it's not your shoe, it's your running form.


It's amazing to me how many people, even here, that say they are runners and then say they heel strike.  I rarely run, not going to lie, but I always land on the toes it's worlds easier when you do have to run plus gets more of your leg muscles into it so you don't wear out faster.
 
2014-05-08 08:29:07 AM  

abhorrent1: News flash: Shoes can't magically make you healthy no matter how much you spend.


What? Thoses sketchers shape ups  that I bought that were supposed to tone my butt and legs while walking aren't going to work?  Damnit.
 
2014-05-08 09:00:45 AM  

TNel: relaxitsjustme: If you heel strike it's not your shoe, it's your running form.

It's amazing to me how many people, even here, that say they are runners and then say they heel strike.  I rarely run, not going to lie, but I always land on the toes it's worlds easier when you do have to run plus gets more of your leg muscles into it so you don't wear out faster.




It also lets you be sneaky like a ninja.
 
2014-05-08 09:44:56 AM  
I've had them since 09ish?  I can believe that they've given people injuries.  Barefoot running is a different style than regular running shoes.  It stretches out your calf, and you have to change your stride to not heal strike.  If you don't spend a few weeks working your way into them you can def. end up with calf/shin/knee issues.  But if you do it right, they're amazing.

It would be like going from a weight machine to just free weights, and wondering why all your stabilizer muscles are hurt if you just push through the pain.  It's similar, but different.
 
2014-05-08 09:46:05 AM  

whistleridge: I'm not going to drop $189 on weightlifting shoes that compress in the heel and make me unstable, when I can drop $50 on Vibrams that work perfectly.

But I wouldn't run in them or wear them in generally public situations.


It's like wearing Crocs. Perfectly fine for gardening and yard work but stupid to wear to the grocery store or the movies. Not sure why so many people have a problem with specific footwear for specific tasks.
 
2014-05-08 09:50:07 AM  

EngineerAU: It's like wearing Crocs. Perfectly fine for gardening and yard work but stupid to wear to the grocery store or the movies. Not sure why so many people have a problem with specific footwear for specific tasks.


Problem is that you see people with them doing normal everyday tasks that aren't what the shoes are designed for.  We had a summer worker who wore them everyday to work.  Was hard to not laugh.
 
2014-05-08 09:54:48 AM  

TNel: relaxitsjustme: If you heel strike it's not your shoe, it's your running form.

It's amazing to me how many people, even here, that say they are runners and then say they heel strike.  I rarely run, not going to lie, but I always land on the toes it's worlds easier when you do have to run plus gets more of your leg muscles into it so you don't wear out faster.


There isn't an option, in my particular situation. If I heel strike, whatever's left of my meniscuses stays put better, contrary to what many people seem to be claiming here.
 
2014-05-08 10:06:01 AM  
I understand the backlash against Vibram and minimalist shoes in general, but it has nothing to do with the claims or the shoes--it has everything to do with people being impatient idiots who don't listen to their own bodies.

Putting on minimalist shoes won't magically change your gait or musculature or give you wings, as a lot of the "I tried them and they suck" crowd seem to think they would--even if you're a long time runner.

Running in minimalist shoes requires a long term, gradual commitment to slowly change your running style and musculature, or yes, you will get injured. It took me over a year of semi-regular jogging, usually only .5 to 1 mile at a slow pace, before my body finally got it and my gait changed. Then running became a lot easier for me in general, whatever I wear on my feet (even fully barefoot on pavement works).

Since then I swear by minimalist shoes. My pace got faster and more efficient, my feet objectively spread out/got more muscular, my arches objectively improved, and the frequent knee and shin issues I had previously stopped occurring. But you have to give it plenty of time.

I_Like_Pie: Minimalist shoes are a lie and if anyone thinks they can cruise around running on sidewalk or anything harder than sand or mulched trails...they are in for a world of hurt.
Repetitive shock on hard surfaces have been effectively mitigated with the current shoe technology.  Running barefoot or using shoes that try to get you close will screw you up.
Don't believe me? go ahead try to log 20+ miles a week on a minimalist shoe.
There is a place for these shoes, Not for a committed/daily runner.


Yeah pretty much everything here is untrue and spoken with impatient ignorance.

/Been running in VFFs since 2008, did the Philly Marathon in them two years ago just fine.
//They are still better for trails/Tough Mudders, though.
 
2014-05-08 10:06:05 AM  

TNel: EngineerAU: It's like wearing Crocs. Perfectly fine for gardening and yard work but stupid to wear to the grocery store or the movies. Not sure why so many people have a problem with specific footwear for specific tasks.

Problem is that you see people with them doing normal everyday tasks that aren't what the shoes are designed for.  We had a summer worker who wore them everyday to work.  Was hard to not laugh.


Ask yourself this... why do you care so much about other people's feet? You seem obsessed. :P
 
2014-05-08 10:12:48 AM  

laivincolmo: Ask yourself this... why do you care so much about other people's feet? You seem obsessed. :P


Not obsessed it's funny looking. It's like looking at a minor league baseball mascot all day long.
 
2014-05-08 10:26:08 AM  
I love these shoes, they are amazing for boating, swimming, light hiking, gardening, and gym/indoor exercising.

They helped reduce a lot of knee and ankle pain I have, but I wouldn't use them for long term concrete walking.
 
2014-05-08 12:30:19 PM  
I have high arches and ridiculously short toes, and even with no toe strength to start with, it only took me two weeks to transition to running in Five Fingers. I credit those shoes for giving me back the use of my toes -- I had forgotten over the years that toes were actually good for anything. My husband and my mom both mentioned to me that I don't stomp when I walk anymore.

I suppose I should mention I run on a combination of trails and sand in the desert. Lots and lots of sand. I shredded (and patched, and re-patched) the fabric between the toes of my Bikilas, but better that than step on thorns barefoot.
 
2014-05-08 03:34:54 PM  
I had plantar fasciitis in both feet from regular running. A month after starting in Vibram FFs It went away completely. I can't run more than 4 or 5 miles in them on pavement because it just beats my feet too much (Bikila didn't weigh 205 lb). But trail running is excellent in VFFs. Last year I did a 13-mile Tough Mudder in them and my feet were fine. I'm running a 10k on pavement next weekend and I'll be wearing a pair of Asics. At the end of the month I'm running a 5k and I will be in Vibram Five Fingers.
 
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