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(Yahoo)   Poland, who may not remember 1938 all that well, decides to tweak Russia by awarding the Inaugural "Solidarity Prize" for achievements in spreading human rights and democracy to a Crimean Tatar leader who opposed Russian annexation   (news.yahoo.com) divider line 74
    More: Interesting, Crimean Tatars, Crimea, Russians, Poland, Russia, Tatars, Kremlins, human rights  
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1458 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 May 2014 at 3:45 PM (29 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-07 01:52:28 PM  
Of all of the Eastern European former Soviet bloc states, Poland is in the best position to tweak Russia however they like because they are a NATO member and Russia wouldn't dare to act against them.
 
2014-05-07 02:07:16 PM  
Soviet and Nazi walk into Polish bar The bartender looks up and says, "Is this some kind of joint victory parade?"
 
2014-05-07 02:11:27 PM  

RexTalionis: Of all of the Eastern European former Soviet bloc states, Poland is in the best position to tweak Russia however they like because they are a NATO member and Russia wouldn't dare to act against them.


Yup.  This is their "Come at me, bro" moment.
 
2014-05-07 02:27:58 PM  
photos1.blogger.com
 
2014-05-07 02:32:19 PM  
Dzhemilev, who until last year led the body that represents Crimean Tatars, publicly opposed Russia's annexation of Crimea. He said Crimea's new Moscow-backed authorities last month banned him from entering the peninsula for five years.

So on top of everything else, Russia has a Tatar control problem.
 
2014-05-07 03:02:18 PM  
Great. Now I have a craving for some tatar sauce.

/I really don't
 
2014-05-07 03:48:23 PM  

Walker: Great. Now I have a craving for some tatar sauce.

/I really don't


img.fark.net

Here ya go...
 
2014-05-07 03:48:49 PM  

Diogenes: Dzhemilev, who until last year led the body that represents Crimean Tatars, publicly opposed Russia's annexation of Crimea. He said Crimea's new Moscow-backed authorities last month banned him from entering the peninsula for five years.

So on top of everything else, Russia has a Tatar control problem.


You'd think rinsing with vodka would keep that in check.
 
2014-05-07 03:49:02 PM  
To be fair, in 1938 Poland had little military to speak of and there was no UN or NATO.
 
2014-05-07 03:50:50 PM  
Heh, Poland remembers 1938 just fine...Which is precisely why they did this.
 
2014-05-07 03:51:07 PM  
Poland was the first to react when this shiat went down.  I remember seeing youtube vids from Polish folk taping the columns of tanks and armor moving to their eastern border with Ukraine.

So, it doesn't surprise me that Poland is getting froggy.  NATO member, their military in place and now they're slapping the Russian ego around and daring them to do something about it.

And don't think for a second that this isn't coming from Brussels.  This is a coordinated and choreographed move.
 
2014-05-07 03:51:38 PM  
Subby may not remember 1938 too well either.  Poland was invaded in 1939.  Or is this some labored allusion to Munich?  Russia=Nazis, Poland=Czechoslovakia, Crimea=Sudentenland?  Not working for me.
 
2014-05-07 03:53:47 PM  

azmoviez: RexTalionis: Of all of the Eastern European former Soviet bloc states, Poland is in the best position to tweak Russia however they like because they are a NATO member and Russia wouldn't dare to act against them.

Yup.  This is their "Come at me, bro" moment.


I remember a story that I believe Ian McShane told some years ago on an award special about he and Sean Connery meeting with a Polish guy that I believe was helping finance a movie.

The guy said "They caught us napping in '39." Then showed them a closet in his house with assault weapons, grenades and, apparently a bazooka before saying "They won't catch us napping again."
 
2014-05-07 03:54:18 PM  
pbs.twimg.com
 
2014-05-07 03:58:25 PM  

dj_spanmaster: To be fair, in 1938 Poland had little military to speak of and there was no UN or NATO.


They had a better military than most people give them credit for, as they'd been rapidly expanding under the assumption of an eventual European war, presumed to come from the Soviets. Sure, they collapsed under the pressure of dual German and Soviet invasions, but so did everyone else in Europe. The tales of Polish cavalry charging German tanks are largely urban legends and much of the Polish army was well-equipped and inflicted substantial losses on the Germans.
 
2014-05-07 04:00:22 PM  
Poland getting uppity?  I'm just saying, don't load your whole government onto a flight to Russia anytime soon ...
 
2014-05-07 04:00:23 PM  

Infernalist: Poland was the first to react when this shiat went down.  I remember seeing youtube vids from Polish folk taping the columns of tanks and armor moving to their eastern border with Ukraine.

So, it doesn't surprise me that Poland is getting froggy.  NATO member, their military in place and now they're slapping the Russian ego around and daring them to do something about it.

And don't think for a second that this isn't coming from Brussels.  This is a coordinated and choreographed move.


How big is Polands' army these days? Can't be as pathetic as it was in 1939, them being NATO and all.
 
2014-05-07 04:02:54 PM  
Perhaps, PERHAPS, subby was thinking of the military guarantee that Great Britain granted to Poland to intervene on Poland's behalf should they be invaded by Germany.

When the time came to man up on that guarantee the British... well... they didn't. When they were soon after invaded by the USSR, the British told them no again. It was a pretty dick move by Britain.

Of course that was in 1939, so I'm not to sure.
 
2014-05-07 04:04:19 PM  
amstmonuments.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-05-07 04:13:51 PM  

rockforever: Perhaps, PERHAPS, subby was thinking of the military guarantee that Great Britain granted to Poland to intervene on Poland's behalf should they be invaded by Germany.

When the time came to man up on that guarantee the British... well... they didn't. When they were soon after invaded by the USSR, the British told them no again. It was a pretty dick move by Britain.

Of course that was in 1939, so I'm not to sure.


Umm, actually, when Poland was invaded, the British did something subsequently which is known as "declaring war." Crack open a history book, bubbe.
 
2014-05-07 04:15:01 PM  
Soviet Union invaded Poland in 1939, not 1938.
 
2014-05-07 04:15:03 PM  
encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com

What a Tater leader might look like
 
2014-05-07 04:15:45 PM  

LewDux: Soviet and Nazi walk into Polish bar The bartender looks up and says, "Is this some kind of joint victory parade?"


Brest joke ever.

/get it?
 
2014-05-07 04:17:45 PM  

dukeblue219: dj_spanmaster: To be fair, in 1938 Poland had little military to speak of and there was no UN or NATO.

They had a better military than most people give them credit for, as they'd been rapidly expanding under the assumption of an eventual European war, presumed to come from the Soviets. Sure, they collapsed under the pressure of dual German and Soviet invasions, but so did everyone else in Europe. The tales of Polish cavalry charging German tanks are largely urban legends and much of the Polish army was well-equipped and inflicted substantial losses on the Germans.


Like France, Poland was way behind Germany in terms of command and communication, and air-ground cooperation. Poland did not have nearly as severe a problem with their command staff's bickering and political turmoil (Gamelin's HQ had no radio!). Their aircraft were inferior to the Germans, but on the ground, when the Polish could take the initiative, they gave the German Army a scare: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bzura
 
2014-05-07 04:20:16 PM  

cynicalbastard: rockforever: Perhaps, PERHAPS, subby was thinking of the military guarantee that Great Britain granted to Poland to intervene on Poland's behalf should they be invaded by Germany.

When the time came to man up on that guarantee the British... well... they didn't. When they were soon after invaded by the USSR, the British told them no again. It was a pretty dick move by Britain.

Of course that was in 1939, so I'm not to sure.

Umm, actually, when Poland was invaded, the British did something subsequently which is known as "declaring war." Crack open a history book, bubbe.


And then?
 
2014-05-07 04:21:20 PM  
dj_spanmaster: To be fair, in 1938 Poland had little military to speak of and there was no UN or NATO.

poland was undoubtedly a victim of ww2.  but people also forget that poland was also a military dictatorship then that was oppressing its ukrainian minority, among others.  nowhere nearly on the scale of hitler or stalin, of course, but there were good reasons why the ukrainian national movement was initially an anti-polish one.

but full props now to poland for standing up to neo-fascist putin.  to their immense credit, most of them have gotten over their immense butthurt from the polish-ukrainian conflicts of the 30s and before and are standing steadfast against the true mutual enemy, autocratic russia.
 
rka
2014-05-07 04:21:48 PM  

cynicalbastard: rockforever: Perhaps, PERHAPS, subby was thinking of the military guarantee that Great Britain granted to Poland to intervene on Poland's behalf should they be invaded by Germany.

When the time came to man up on that guarantee the British... well... they didn't. When they were soon after invaded by the USSR, the British told them no again. It was a pretty dick move by Britain.

Of course that was in 1939, so I'm not to sure.

Umm, actually, when Poland was invaded, the British did something subsequently which is known as "declaring war." Crack open a history book, bubbe.


And then they abandoned them to the Soviets after the war for 50 years.

So, declare war to defend Poland. Fight war, almost lose...don't actually defend Poland at all. Empire crumbles because they can't afford it anymore. Is that about right? Yeah. I always wonder why the British look back on WWII as some sort of shining moment.
 
2014-05-07 04:27:46 PM  

Smoking GNU: cynicalbastard: rockforever: Perhaps, PERHAPS, subby was thinking of the military guarantee that Great Britain granted to Poland to intervene on Poland's behalf should they be invaded by Germany.

When the time came to man up on that guarantee the British... well... they didn't. When they were soon after invaded by the USSR, the British told them no again. It was a pretty dick move by Britain.

Of course that was in 1939, so I'm not to sure.

Umm, actually, when Poland was invaded, the British did something subsequently which is known as "declaring war." Crack open a history book, bubbe.

And then?


fecal matter impacted the high velocity twirling blades...
 
2014-05-07 04:27:58 PM  
Showing a bit of spine. Good on Poland. Wish I could say something similar about Obama but hey.
 
2014-05-07 04:28:07 PM  

Smoking GNU: cynicalbastard: rockforever: Perhaps, PERHAPS, subby was thinking of the military guarantee that Great Britain granted to Poland to intervene on Poland's behalf should they be invaded by Germany.

When the time came to man up on that guarantee the British... well... they didn't. When they were soon after invaded by the USSR, the British told them no again. It was a pretty dick move by Britain.

Of course that was in 1939, so I'm not to sure.

Umm, actually, when Poland was invaded, the British did something subsequently which is known as "declaring war." Crack open a history book, bubbe.

And then?


No and then.

/really
//Poland no and then after that
 
2014-05-07 04:30:16 PM  
i.imgur.com

/oblig
 
2014-05-07 04:30:48 PM  
I highly recommend The Second World War by Anthony Beevor for most history professors in this thread.  It's an excellent history of the war, if a little dense.
 
2014-05-07 04:30:49 PM  
Meanwhile Pootie Poot has said giving Finland its independence was a "mistake" and that Russia stands ready to defend ethnic Russians in Finland. I bet the Finns are looking at their "Partnership for Peace" agreement and wishing they'd upgraded. Even with full NATO membership the Baltic States must be feeling VERY nervous
 
2014-05-07 04:31:41 PM  
yup 1939 what most people do not realize is one reason for the long downtime between the conclusion of combat in Poland and major operations in the west is due to the need for the Wehrmacht and Luftwaffe to replace equipment lost in the Polish campaign.    The Germans took more of beating there than many realize, by all measures the Polish put up a better fight than the French did in 1940 despite the french having more troops and generally better equipment.

Today's Poland is not about to let its self be conquered ever again.
 
2014-05-07 04:32:34 PM  

Slowdog: [i.imgur.com image 708x1500]

/oblig


This always makes me giggle.
 
2014-05-07 04:35:31 PM  

dukeblue219: dj_spanmaster: To be fair, in 1938 Poland had little military to speak of and there was no UN or NATO.

They had a better military than most people give them credit for, as they'd been rapidly expanding under the assumption of an eventual European war, presumed to come from the Soviets. Sure, they collapsed under the pressure of dual German and Soviet invasions, but so did everyone else in Europe. The tales of Polish cavalry charging German tanks are largely urban legends and much of the Polish army was well-equipped and inflicted substantial losses on the Germans.


They'd also kicked the Russian's asses back in the 20's, iirc.
 
2014-05-07 04:37:21 PM  

CruJones: I highly recommend The Second World War by Anthony Beevor for most history professors in this thread.  It's an excellent history of the war, if a little dense.


Not a bad read at all.  But I thought his more detailed works, Stalingrad, and The Fall of Berlin, were better; world-class, really.  I think he works better with a slightly tighter focus.
 
2014-05-07 04:38:26 PM  

JohnAnnArbor: LewDux: Soviet and Nazi walk into Polish bar The bartender looks up and says, "Is this some kind of joint victory parade?"

Brest joke ever.

/get it?


Of cause I do, I'm Litovsk
 
2014-05-07 04:40:31 PM  

Bomb Head Mohammed: poland was also a military dictatorship


Which country wasn't military dictatorship between WW's?
/Scandinavian ones I guess
 
2014-05-07 04:42:51 PM  

grimlock1972: yup 1939 what most people do not realize is one reason for the long downtime between the conclusion of combat in Poland and major operations in the west is due to the need for the Wehrmacht and Luftwaffe to replace equipment lost in the Polish campaign.    The Germans took more of beating there than many realize, by all measures the Polish put up a better fight than the French did in 1940 despite the french having more troops and generally better equipment.

Today's Poland is not about to let its self be conquered ever again.


And non-organized resistance to the Germans continued for a very long time. The USA couldn't maintain control of a desert. Imagine how hard it would be for Russia to maintain control of a giant forest?

The Poles also resisted the USSR's puppet government into the 50s, which I didn't know until just now.
 
2014-05-07 04:44:21 PM  

UNC_Samurai: dukeblue219: dj_spanmaster: To be fair, in 1938 Poland had little military to speak of and there was no UN or NATO.

They had a better military than most people give them credit for, as they'd been rapidly expanding under the assumption of an eventual European war, presumed to come from the Soviets. Sure, they collapsed under the pressure of dual German and Soviet invasions, but so did everyone else in Europe. The tales of Polish cavalry charging German tanks are largely urban legends and much of the Polish army was well-equipped and inflicted substantial losses on the Germans.

Like France, Poland was way behind Germany in terms of command and communication, and air-ground cooperation. Poland did not have nearly as severe a problem with their command staff's bickering and political turmoil (Gamelin's HQ had no radio!). Their aircraft were inferior to the Germans, but on the ground, when the Polish could take the initiative, they gave the German Army a scare: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Bzura


To be fair, EVERYBODY was way behind Germany in that area back then.

The U.S. didn't really get fully up to speed until '44 or so.  Once we started sticking air liaison officers literally in the turrets of our tanks in our forward armored columns, we got there.

/We didn't call it blitzkrieg when we rolled into Iraq
//it was blitzkrieg
 
2014-05-07 04:46:29 PM  
Poland not weak!
 
2014-05-07 04:46:35 PM  

Smoking GNU: Infernalist: Poland was the first to react when this shiat went down.  I remember seeing youtube vids from Polish folk taping the columns of tanks and armor moving to their eastern border with Ukraine.

So, it doesn't surprise me that Poland is getting froggy.  NATO member, their military in place and now they're slapping the Russian ego around and daring them to do something about it.

And don't think for a second that this isn't coming from Brussels.  This is a coordinated and choreographed move.

How big is Polands' army these days? Can't be as pathetic as it was in 1939, them being NATO and all.


One of the requirements for being a NATO member nation is to spend at least 4% of GDP on defense. The US and Poland are the only two countries that meet that requirement. The costs for invading them would be extremely high
 
2014-05-07 04:50:18 PM  
Lech Walesa:

Planet Earth's Last Known Labor Hero
 
2014-05-07 04:51:57 PM  

Chach: Showing a bit of spine. Good on Poland. Wish I could say something similar about Obama but hey.


What, specifically, would you like Obama to do?

How, exactly, should he "show spine?"

If your answer involves sending troops...why haven't you gone to the Ukraine to help out?  It's quite possible to travel there; you could get some language CDs, and have rudimentary fluency by the time you got off the plane.  You could always serve in a non-combatant capacity if they wouldn't let you help in the fighting.

Personally, although I'm not particularly religious, I apply the Golden Rule to these situations:  if I'm not willing to get off my ass and go myself, I'm less eager to call for my president or my congress to send other poor slobs to do the job.

The Russians invade a NATO country?  China invades Japan?  Canada crosses the border into Vermont?  Yeah, I'd sign up, if they were taking guys my age.

Russia and Georgia get into a dust-up?  Syrians killing each other?

Have at it.
 
2014-05-07 04:52:46 PM  

anuran: Meanwhile Pootie Poot has said giving Finland its independence was a "mistake" and that Russia stands ready to defend ethnic Russians in Finland. I bet the Finns are looking at their "Partnership for Peace" agreement and wishing they'd upgraded. Even with full NATO membership the Baltic States must be feeling VERY nervous


I don't think Putin has ever actually mentioned Finland, he's said they made some mistakes, but the odds of a Finland invasion are zero.
 
2014-05-07 04:54:36 PM  

PunGent: CruJones: I highly recommend The Second World War by Anthony Beevor for most history professors in this thread.  It's an excellent history of the war, if a little dense.

Not a bad read at all.  But I thought his more detailed works, Stalingrad, and The Fall of Berlin, were better; world-class, really.  I think he works better with a slightly tighter focus.


Agreed, but for a comprehensive history of the entire war it's probably the best, and most accurate, I've found.
 
2014-05-07 04:54:53 PM  

anuran: Meanwhile Pootie Poot has said giving Finland its independence was a "mistake" and that Russia stands ready to defend ethnic Russians in Finland. I bet the Finns are looking at their "Partnership for Peace" agreement and wishing they'd upgraded. Even with full NATO membership the Baltic States must be feeling VERY nervous


Interesting.

Finland contains very few ethnic Russians.

Russia is populated almost exclusively with ethnic Finns.
 
2014-05-07 04:55:12 PM  
grimlock1972:

Today's Poland is not about to let its self be conquered ever again.


You mean they have.............GUNS?!?!?


Well, we just gotta put an end to that.
 
2014-05-07 05:08:15 PM  

dukeblue219: dj_spanmaster: To be fair, in 1938 Poland had little military to speak of and there was no UN or NATO.

They had a better military than most people give them credit for, as they'd been rapidly expanding under the assumption of an eventual European war, presumed to come from the Soviets. Sure, they collapsed under the pressure of dual German and Soviet invasions, but so did everyone else in Europe. The tales of Polish cavalry charging German tanks are largely urban legends and much of the Polish army was well-equipped and inflicted substantial losses on the Germans.


Less urban legend and more Nazi propaganda effort. The Nazis were actually more dependent on Calvary than the Poles were. The Polish Army was actually one of the larger Allied forces involved in WWII, mostly based out of the UK and working pretty closely with the Brits. They chipped in more than their fair share.

And yeah, they don't like the Russians much. They still don't trust the Germans, but they really hate Russia. The wounds from the last few decades are very, very fresh- I visited a few years ago, and there were a lot of new memorials and commemorations, and more going up every day. WWII and the Holocaust did a lot of damage to the national psyche, but any talk about Nazi atrocities was suppressed under Communist rule ( which is part of the reason you don't hear that nearly as many ethnic Poles died in the Holocaust as Jews- the Polish side of the story just wasn't there to make it part of the conversation when we talk about the Holocaust), and there was no time to work through it. Literally, the Nazis moved out one day and the Soviets moved in the next. Oh, and the Nazis burned Warsaw as they were leaving. The Soviets sat across the river and let it burn. Of course, during the Soviet era there were plenty of atrocities that couldn't be discussed, so it all built up, and they've only really been able to come to terms with history from 1938 on in the last decade or so.

So yeah, this is Poland gleefully poking Russia with a stick.
 
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