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(Boston Globe)   Company accused of starting deadly Boston fire has a great alibi: It doesn't exist   (bostonglobe.com) divider line 48
    More: Followup  
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7171 clicks; posted to Main » on 07 May 2014 at 1:46 PM (24 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



48 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-05-07 11:46:16 AM  
I don't exist, your argument is invalid.
 
2014-05-07 01:50:05 PM  
FTFA: It was not immediately clear why the company disbanded twice.

Sometimes it's the only way to get rid of those teamkilling farks.
 
2014-05-07 01:50:41 PM  
But but but, its a corporation. It is evil. That's all that matters. Why bother with facts when emotions are so much more real.

At least that's what I've learned on fark.

/dnrtfa
 
2014-05-07 01:51:27 PM  
But  corporations are people!  It was murder that done him in!
 
2014-05-07 01:53:38 PM  
"The greatest trick the Devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist."

Keyser Soze welding LLC
 
2014-05-07 01:55:10 PM  
They are likely a debtor company in default with many creditors.
 
2014-05-07 01:58:05 PM  
So a guy named Falcone may or may not own a nonexistent company that has dissolved twice and is being sued by a landlord for work he wasn't hired to do. Yep, seems legit.

I have the feeling that someone in this story is going to be found dead in an alley soon.
 
2014-05-07 02:01:05 PM  
A lawyer for Giuseppe Falcone made those arguments in a court filing in Suffolk Superior Court in Boston, where Falcone and his company, D & J Iron Works Inc., are being sued in the March 26 fire at 298 Beacon St.

To avoid certain legal complications, the welders are always moving.
 
2014-05-07 02:02:17 PM  
I smell a rat.
 
2014-05-07 02:04:01 PM  
9-alarm? From the look of the picture, I think that is 3-alarm at best.
 
2014-05-07 02:08:13 PM  

Solty Dog: 9-alarm? From the look of the picture, I think that is 3-alarm at best.


They were economy-sized alarms.
 
2014-05-07 02:08:49 PM  
"Giuseppe Falcone"


Sounds legit.
 
2014-05-07 02:10:07 PM  

To The Escape Zeppelin!: So a guy named Falcone may or may not own a nonexistent company that has dissolved twice and is being sued by a landlord for work he wasn't hired to do. Yep, seems legit.

I have the feeling that someone in this story is going to be found dead in an alley soon.


ourenclave.files.wordpress.com


or worse.
 
2014-05-07 02:10:36 PM  
So...property manager Oliver Realty hired a guy, didn't have a formal contract signed outlining indemnification, didn't obtain any proof of insurance, didn't determine if people on site were employees or subs, and didn't bother to determine whether a permit may be needed for the work?  None of this would have happened if the property manager, you know, managed the property.  Guess who will be left holding the bag in all of this?
 
2014-05-07 02:10:43 PM  
Sos youse gotta fire problem and youse are sayin we done it. Youse know these allegations are very upsetting to my associates. Ida be a shame if youse was to have a fire ova dere......youse.....ahhh....what? Oh, yeah, never mind.
 
2014-05-07 02:12:41 PM  

olapbill: To The Escape Zeppelin!: So a guy named Falcone may or may not own a nonexistent company that has dissolved twice and is being sued by a landlord for work he wasn't hired to do. Yep, seems legit.

I have the feeling that someone in this story is going to be found dead in an alley soon.

[ourenclave.files.wordpress.com image 766x370]


or worse.


What's the story being the screencap?
 
2014-05-07 02:14:29 PM  

Solty Dog: 9-alarm? From the look of the picture, I think that is 3-alarm at best.


Its Beacon Hill, everything there is out sized and overpriced.   Only the right sort of people can get in.
 
2014-05-07 02:15:42 PM  
MelGoesOnTour:What's the story being the screencap?

Batman
 
2014-05-07 02:17:00 PM  
This is part of the reason why I hate when people talk about free markets and how corporations will police themselves and the market will cause corporations to flounder and die when they do things like this. If a corporation has to simply dissolve and reform in order to avoid responsibility for its actions, it completely obliterates any such notion.
 
2014-05-07 02:19:45 PM  

Solty Dog: 9-alarm? From the look of the picture, I think that is 3-alarm at best.


Well, three stations responded and then Engine Company 12 need some OT so they showed up.  For Hook and Ladder 12, it was either go to the fire or get their Dalmatian flea dipped.  No debate there.   The firemen from Fire Station 7 responded cause the cable went out and there was nothing on the box.  The paramedics got lonely and went over just to see what the fuss was.  Finally, Engines 21 and 24 misunderstood the call.  They thought the code referred to "Naked and Drunk Sorority Chicks Dancing" and not "Multilevel Building in Flames".  You could see the disappointment on their faces when they rolled up.
 
2014-05-07 02:24:39 PM  

Solty Dog: 9-alarm? From the look of the picture, I think that is 3-alarm at best.


remember:  Boston.   Union rules.
 
2014-05-07 02:24:45 PM  

LoneDoggie: Solty Dog: 9-alarm? From the look of the picture, I think that is 3-alarm at best.

They were economy-sized metric alarms.


/ FTFY
 
2014-05-07 02:31:07 PM  

To The Escape Zeppelin!: MelGoesOnTour:What's the story being the screencap?

Batman


You mean that isn't the beacon on Beacon Hill?
 
2014-05-07 02:32:54 PM  
It WAS indeed a 9 alarm fire, and 2 extremely brave firefighters lost their lives. No, I didn't know them, but I know they were brave. They went in without a guarantee of getting out. Hopefully those responsible for starting this horrific fire will be held properly accountable.
 
2014-05-07 02:35:29 PM  

Harry Freakstorm: A lawyer for Giuseppe Falcone made those arguments in a court filing in Suffolk Superior Court in Boston, where Falcone and his company, D & J Iron Works Inc., are being sued in the March 26 fire at 298 Beacon St.

To avoid certain legal complications, the welders are always moving.


Perfect.
 
2014-05-07 02:39:45 PM  
s2.quickmeme.com
 
2014-05-07 02:40:07 PM  

Bruce Campbell: So...property manager Oliver Realty hired a guy, didn't have a formal contract signed outlining indemnification, didn't obtain any proof of insurance, didn't determine if people on site were employees or subs, and didn't bother to determine whether a permit may be needed for the work?  None of this would have happened if the property manager, you know, managed the property.  Guess who will be left holding the bag in all of this?


If that's all true, the manager is, indeed, in trouble.  However, I'd be surprised if there's no contract...and it's pretty hard to ride herd on every employee of every sub-contractor.  Sometimes you're basically just trusting the guy you hire...and it doesn't always work out well, as we can see.

Stuff like proof of insurance can be faked...not saying that's what happened here, just saying.

And on the other hand, if the welding "company" turns out not to exist...could be there's no corporate shield for Mr. Welder-Owner.

In which case, goodbye house and IRA, and maybe hello additional criminal charges like fraud.

SOMEBODY was getting paid for that work, and probably not in cash.  Follow the money...it's a damned sound rule.

If they WERE getting paid in case, we're back to the Sleazy Property Manager hypothesis.
 
2014-05-07 02:43:29 PM  

Bruce Campbell: So...property manager Oliver Realty hired a guy, didn't have a formal contract signed outlining indemnification, didn't obtain any proof of insurance, didn't determine if people on site were employees or subs, and didn't bother to determine whether a permit may be needed for the work?  None of this would have happened if the property manager, you know, managed the property.  Guess who will be left holding the bag in all of this?


Yep.  The receptionist who made the calls for the boss is gonna catch all kinds of hell.
 
2014-05-07 02:51:38 PM  

Solty Dog: 9-alarm? From the look of the picture, I think that is 3-alarm at best.


There were 45 mph winds that day. 6 of the alarms were probably just to keep it from spreading.
 
2014-05-07 02:58:56 PM  

Harry Freakstorm: Well, three stations responded and then Engine Company 12 need some OT so they showed up.  For Hook and Ladder 12, it was either go to the fire or get their Dalmatian flea dipped.  No debate there.   The firemen from Fire Station 7 responded cause the cable went out and there was nothing on the box.  The paramedics got lonely and went over just to see what the fuss was.  Finally, Engines 21 and 24 misunderstood the call.  They thought the code referred to "Naked and Drunk Sorority Chicks Dancing" and not "Multilevel Building in Flames".  You could see the disappointment on their faces when they rolled up.


No reason to wonder why I favorited you long ago.
 
2014-05-07 03:14:17 PM  
www.adinnerguest.com
 
2014-05-07 03:14:58 PM  

PunGent: If that's all true, the manager is, indeed, in trouble.  However, I'd be surprised if there's no contract...and it's pretty hard to ride herd on every employee of every sub-contractor.  Sometimes you're basically just trusting the guy you hire...and it doesn't always work out well, as we can see.

Stuff like proof of insurance can be faked...not saying that's what happened here, just saying.

And on the other hand, if the welding "company" turns out not to exist...could be there's no corporate shield for Mr. Welder-Owner.

In which case, goodbye house and IRA, and maybe hello additional criminal charges like fraud.

SOMEBODY was getting paid for that work, and probably not in cash.  Follow the money...it's a damned sound rule.

If they WERE getting paid in case, we're back to the Sleazy Property Manager hypothesis.


Wouldn't agency law suggest it is the property managements fault regardless of the number of intermediary companies between the properly management company and the welder who farked up?  Even if it's a contractor, they're still employed by the properly management company.
 
2014-05-07 03:33:52 PM  
Wait.

You'd need a permit and outside supervision to weld...  A railing?
 
2014-05-07 03:54:58 PM  
If the firm is still truly dissolved, and the guy had no knowledge of the job, then I wonder if a former employee has been working illegally for years under the name if the firm. He still had the jacket and shirts, old clients called him up for jobs, so he just went ahead and worked them instead of sitting unemployed. Doesn't mean he didn't collect unemployment at the same time, but enjoyed the scam.
 
2014-05-07 04:14:58 PM  

Muta: PunGent: If that's all true, the manager is, indeed, in trouble.  However, I'd be surprised if there's no contract...and it's pretty hard to ride herd on every employee of every sub-contractor.  Sometimes you're basically just trusting the guy you hire...and it doesn't always work out well, as we can see.

Stuff like proof of insurance can be faked...not saying that's what happened here, just saying.

And on the other hand, if the welding "company" turns out not to exist...could be there's no corporate shield for Mr. Welder-Owner.

In which case, goodbye house and IRA, and maybe hello additional criminal charges like fraud.

SOMEBODY was getting paid for that work, and probably not in cash.  Follow the money...it's a damned sound rule.

If they WERE getting paid in case, we're back to the Sleazy Property Manager hypothesis.

Wouldn't agency law suggest it is the property managements fault regardless of the number of intermediary companies between the properly management company and the welder who farked up?  Even if it's a contractor, they're still employed by the properly management company.


Good point.  But if the management company followed standard practices, they may be able to mount a successful defense, or at least have their insurance cover them...if they cut corners, they're probably boned, as much as the welders are.

/lawyer, but it's been ages since I've done civil litigation
//I suspect the insurance company, somehow, will win in the end
 
2014-05-07 04:47:12 PM  
Soooooo if I commit a crime and erase my birth certificate before the cops catch me I'm safe?
 
2014-05-07 04:49:07 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: Wait.

You'd need a permit and outside supervision to weld...  A railing?


You need a burn permit, and post a fire watch, yes. That's one of the first things they teach you in welding. Safety safety safety! If one of your welds fails, even if it passed visual inspection, you could still be culpable for criminal/civil charges.
 
2014-05-07 04:51:00 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: Wait.

You'd need a permit and outside supervision to weld...  A railing?


yes, because if you don't, you end up with two dead firefighters and an enormous fire.
 
2014-05-07 04:53:53 PM  

Bruce Campbell: So...property manager Oliver Realty hired a guy, didn't have a formal contract signed outlining indemnification, didn't obtain any proof of insurance, didn't determine if people on site were employees or subs, and didn't bother to determine whether a permit may be needed for the work?  None of this would have happened if the property manager, you know, managed the property.  Guess who will be left holding the bag in all of this?


Easy.  The company that manufactured the welding equipment.
 
2014-05-07 04:58:09 PM  

Cataholic: Bruce Campbell: So...property manager Oliver Realty hired a guy, didn't have a formal contract signed outlining indemnification, didn't obtain any proof of insurance, didn't determine if people on site were employees or subs, and didn't bother to determine whether a permit may be needed for the work?  None of this would have happened if the property manager, you know, managed the property.  Guess who will be left holding the bag in all of this?

Easy.  The company that manufactured the welding equipment.


I'm willing to bet that Miller et al would be able to smack that down in court. Not their fault someone used their equipment in an unsafe manner.

Really, every bit of this sounds like amateur hour. I can barely weld two pieces of steel plate together, and even I managed pass all certification and safety standards testing, regarding commercial welding.
 
2014-05-07 08:37:10 PM  
I get to cromulently quote Fat Tony again:

"In order to avoid certain legal complications, the trucks are always rolling."
 
2014-05-07 09:08:37 PM  

lack of warmth: If the firm is still truly dissolved, and the guy had no knowledge of the job, then I wonder if a former employee has been working illegally for years under the name if the firm. He still had the jacket and shirts, old clients called him up for jobs, so he just went ahead and worked them instead of sitting unemployed. Doesn't mean he didn't collect unemployment at the same time, but enjoyed the scam.


Thats a good possibility. It has happened before.
 
2014-05-07 11:11:08 PM  
I'm sure Mr. Falcone is a legitimate businessman.
 
2014-05-08 12:10:22 AM  

Satanic_Hamster: Wait.

You'd need a permit and outside supervision to weld...  A railing?


You'll also need an environmental impact study, stamped plans from an engineer, hazmat suits, lots of traffic cones, and a union shop steward.
 
2014-05-08 12:16:44 AM  

Hz so good: Cataholic: Bruce Campbell: So...property manager Oliver Realty hired a guy, didn't have a formal contract signed outlining indemnification, didn't obtain any proof of insurance, didn't determine if people on site were employees or subs, and didn't bother to determine whether a permit may be needed for the work?  None of this would have happened if the property manager, you know, managed the property.  Guess who will be left holding the bag in all of this?

Easy.  The company that manufactured the welding equipment.

I'm willing to bet that Miller et al would be able to smack that down in court. Not their fault someone used their equipment in an unsafe manner.

Really, every bit of this sounds like amateur hour. I can barely weld two pieces of steel plate together, and even I managed pass all certification and safety standards testing, regarding commercial welding.


I was half joking, and I know Massachusetts doesn't have pure comparative negligence, but let me introduce you to Disney v. Wood so you can see what happens in states that have adopted it.
 
2014-05-08 08:12:59 AM  

PunGent: If that's all true, the manager is, indeed, in trouble.  However, I'd be surprised if there's no contract...and it's pretty hard to ride herd on every employee of every sub-contractor.  Sometimes you're basically just trusting the guy you hire...and it doesn't always work out well, as we can see.

Stuff like proof of insurance can be faked...not saying that's what happened here, just saying.

And on the other hand, if the welding "company" turns out not to exist...could be there's no corporate shield for Mr. Welder-Owner.


I wouldn't be surprised if there is no contract.  Many property managers really suck at their jobs.  The fact that the guy can say that his company does not exist and he was not involved, that there was no permit pulled under a contractor license says to me that there is no contract and that the idea that he was involved is going to be difficult to prove in court.
 
2014-05-08 04:02:43 PM  

Bruce Campbell: PunGent: If that's all true, the manager is, indeed, in trouble.  However, I'd be surprised if there's no contract...and it's pretty hard to ride herd on every employee of every sub-contractor.  Sometimes you're basically just trusting the guy you hire...and it doesn't always work out well, as we can see.

Stuff like proof of insurance can be faked...not saying that's what happened here, just saying.

And on the other hand, if the welding "company" turns out not to exist...could be there's no corporate shield for Mr. Welder-Owner.

I wouldn't be surprised if there is no contract.  Many property managers really suck at their jobs.  The fact that the guy can say that his company does not exist and he was not involved, that there was no permit pulled under a contractor license says to me that there is no contract and that the idea that he was involved is going to be difficult to prove in court.


Interesting.  I've been doing residential real estate for years, and been on my condo board for years, and haven't run into that in a noticeable way, and as far as I know, neither have any of my clients in condos.

Plenty of landlords who won't pay for basic maintenance, but that's a different issue, I think.  They're "good" at being slumlords, is all :)
 
2014-05-08 04:46:46 PM  

groppet: Soooooo if I commit a crime and erase my birth certificate before the cops catch me I'm safe?


Or, you could run for president.

/ I keed
 
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