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(Gawker)   Occupy Wall Street protester sentenced to seven years for elbowing a police officer after he grabbed her boob, therefore left wing activists are just as violent as right wing activists and Darren Huff is automatically president   (gawker.com ) divider line
    More: Strange, Occupy Wall Street, objections, Wall Street, activists, Zuccotti Park, right-wing  
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3581 clicks; posted to Politics » on 06 May 2014 at 11:47 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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m00
2014-05-07 02:58:35 AM  

GreatGlavinsGhost: UseLessHuman: Neither side has much credibility.  I've seen videos of other officer's randomly grabbing people or attacking them at gatherings and then saying that the defendant did something to justify it.  Innocent until proven guilty is just words, the system is designed to convict you most effectively, and people for some unknown reason still put great stock in the testimony of police officers.  The article starts the scene with "as I'm walking her out"  WTF that's pretty late in the story to establish context.  Someone in the comments above says she was arrested for drunk in public, is that true? what was her BAC?

Yup. There are too many people who believe that no cop would lie. Ever. About anything.


Well if there is a false confession, isn't the suspect lying? If a cop questions you about a crime, you shouldn't lie and say you did it just to get attention. If you go to jail, it's on you.
 
2014-05-07 03:04:26 AM  

MFAWG: I just can't make a judgement without a picture of the boob in question.


assets.vice.com

There you go. With erect nipple. Yes, the cop totally made a fungrab. And yes, she was found guilty of felony assault. Which is BS--You grab a ladies boobs without asking, she will elbow you. We all know that.

Honestly, it's just the police making her an example.
 
2014-05-07 03:06:43 AM  
Wait--That's not her. Farking Vice magazine with their dumb photos...But still, that's a good representation. Sorry about that folks.
 
2014-05-07 03:08:12 AM  

m00: GreatGlavinsGhost: UseLessHuman: Neither side has much credibility.  I've seen videos of other officer's randomly grabbing people or attacking them at gatherings and then saying that the defendant did something to justify it.  Innocent until proven guilty is just words, the system is designed to convict you most effectively, and people for some unknown reason still put great stock in the testimony of police officers.  The article starts the scene with "as I'm walking her out"  WTF that's pretty late in the story to establish context.  Someone in the comments above says she was arrested for drunk in public, is that true? what was her BAC?

Yup. There are too many people who believe that no cop would lie. Ever. About anything.

Well if there is a false confession, isn't the suspect lying? If a cop questions you about a crime, you shouldn't lie and say you did it just to get attention. If you go to jail, it's on you.


THOSE STUPID OWS HIPPIES
THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN PROTESTING WASHINGTON INSTEAD
 
2014-05-07 03:08:24 AM  

whidbey: Maybe she'll get parole after a couple of years.

But yeah, this is bullshiat. I would be appealing the fark out of this ruling.


She'll probably get a short time in a jail and a long time suspended, which would piss her off as a professional protester to have jail time hanging over her head for the next few years.

And they're already talking about appealing, but I really doubt it will overturn anything. Most of what they're talking about was stuff that was disallowed because it was immaterial.

The video is pretty damning, and doesn't support her titty-twister tale.
 
2014-05-07 03:16:15 AM  

Wessoman: There you go. With erect nipple. Yes, the cop totally made a fungrab. And yes, she was found guilty of felony assault. Which is BS--You grab a ladies boobs without asking, she will elbow you. We all know that.

Honestly, it's just the police making her an example.


Did you watch the video in TFA? The bruise she later shows off is above acceptable necklines. In the video, nothing ever blocks the vibrant green of her t-shirt. A hand to the top of her boob (and really, if you're going to grope someone, why would you grope there?) would have been evident from that angle against that bright green, and it's just not there.
 
2014-05-07 03:38:14 AM  
Lenny_da_Hog:

And that wasn't just a pull-away reactionary elbow -- she leaned down and used her full body mass to inflict injury as much injury as she could and ran to get away.

That is what I would do to get away from someone assaulting me.
 
2014-05-07 03:50:29 AM  

some_beer_drinker: this is outrageous. she is a political prisoner of the 1%


whidbey: Maybe she'll get parole after a couple of years.

But yeah, this is bullshiat. I would be appealing the fark out of this ruling.


hurr durr derp derp derp.  How do appeals work? (hint: the appeals court only considers the law, not facts of the case already determined by the jury - what process or law did you think the judge missed or were you just hurr durring outrage?)

It's idiotic reasoning like yours that led her to court and felony conviction of violence.  I doubt she'll get any prison time that is beyond 3 months.  Her problem is turning down a misdemeanor plea bargain to double down with a violent felony.  That will show up on any future traffic stop on the cops computer (they flag assault on a LEO for the rest of her life) and every single job background report.  Also, she loses her right to vote and is pretty much banned from international travel as most countries reject visits by violent felons.  Congratulations on turning the misdemeanor disorderly conduct plea bargain into convicted felon!  I hope she was silver spoon protester that has a fat lawyer bill so the taxpayer isn't funding any more of her stupidity.

But keep choking that chicken.  You and she need this bit of Faber wisdom: "Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life."

How about a face full of STFU?. (she lost at court too).

www.arktimes.com
 
2014-05-07 03:56:09 AM  

lucksi: Lenny_da_Hog:

And that wasn't just a pull-away reactionary elbow -- she leaned down and used her full body mass to inflict injury as much injury as she could and ran to get away.

That is what I would do to get away from someone assaulting me.


It still goes beyond the lawyer's tale of "it was an accident." She formulated a strike to the face. It wasn't like she just jumped away and accidentally hit his face. And I still doubt the boob-grab story, between the video evidence and number of other continuity problems she has.
 
2014-05-07 04:10:35 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: Nabb1: TuteTibiImperes: Well, she faces up to 7 years, I doubt she'll get sentenced to that.

The NYT has a more detailed account of what happened.  She was drunk, yelling at another officer, which led the assaulted officer to try to lead her away.

7 years would certainly be excessive.  Time served and a probation would be about right.

She sure taught the 1% a lesson.

OWS had some great ideas and a ton of energy, but no direction and abysmal organization.  It's a shame that the potential there was mostly wasted.  They helped get the conversation started, but it could have been so much more if someone had managed to take charge, distill the message into some accessible soundbites, and do some halfway decent PR work to focus the media.


I knew one of the folks interviewed heavily by various media organizations as an anointed 'spokesperson'.of OWS, they are a member of the 1%, and they most certainly tried to pass off that they were a member of the 99%.
 
2014-05-07 04:25:25 AM  
I FAIL to get outraged by possible outcomes. I guess I'm just not sure why getting angry about what might happen in an imagined scenario is part of engaging in real life.
 
2014-05-07 04:29:40 AM  

tbeatty: some_beer_drinker: this is outrageous. she is a political prisoner of the 1%

whidbey: Maybe she'll get parole after a couple of years.

But yeah, this is bullshiat. I would be appealing the fark out of this ruling.

hurr durr derp derp derp.  How do appeals work? (hint: the appeals court only considers the law, not facts of the case already determined by the jury - what process or law did you think the judge missed or were you just hurr durring outrage?)

It's idiotic reasoning like yours that led her to court and felony conviction of violence.  I doubt she'll get any prison time that is beyond 3 months.  Her problem is turning down a misdemeanor plea bargain to double down with a violent felony.  That will show up on any future traffic stop on the cops computer (they flag assault on a LEO for the rest of her life) and every single job background report.  Also, she loses her right to vote and is pretty much banned from international travel as most countries reject visits by violent felons.  Congratulations on turning the misdemeanor disorderly conduct plea bargain into convicted felon!  I hope she was silver spoon protester that has a fat lawyer bill so the taxpayer isn't funding any more of her stupidity.

But keep choking that chicken.  You and she need this bit of Faber wisdom: "Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life."

How about a face full of STFU?. (she lost at court too).

[www.arktimes.com image 500x281]


tbeatty, the judge made some questionable decisions by not allowing the jury to hear that the officer in question has numerous violations on his record for excessive force, and has filed inaccurate police reports. In a case that hedged so heavily on testimony, as the video was not allowed into evidence, the judge made it a he said/she said case, but nixed the ability of the defense to point out that the officer in question has been caught lying before and using excessive force before. IMO, if she gets decent lawyers, she has a shot on appeal.
 
2014-05-07 04:30:41 AM  

Cathedralmaster: From the Guardian:

But the jury didn't hear anything about the police violence that took place in Zuccotti Park that night. They didn't hear about what happened there on November 15, 2011, when the park was first cleared. The violence experienced by Occupy protesters throughout its entirety was excluded from the courtroom. The narrative that the jury did hear was tightly controlled by what the judge allowed - and Judge Ronald Zweibel consistently ruled that any larger context of what was happening around McMillan at the time of the arrest (let alone Bovell's own history of violence) was irrelevant to the scope of the trial.

In the trial, physical evidence was considered suspect but the testimony of the police was cast as infallible. Despite photographs of her bruised body, including her right breast, the prosecution cast doubt upon McMillan's allegations of being injured by the police - all while Officer Bovell repeatedly identified the wrong eye when testifying as to how McMillan injured him. And not only was Officer Bovell's documented history of violent behavior deemed irrelevant by the judge, but so were the allegations of his violent behavior that very same night....

It's impossible to understand the whole story by just looking at it one picture, even if it's McMillan's of her injuries. But that is exactly what the jury in McMillan's case was asked to do. They were presented a close up of Cecily McMillan's elbow, but not of Bovell, and asked to determine who was violent. The prosecutors and the judge prohibited them from zooming out.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/05/cecily-mcmillan -o ccupy-guilty-police-violence

Judge Ronald Zweibel ordered that McMillan, 25, a graduate student at the New School, be detained. He rejected a request from her lawyers for bail.

"I see absolutely no reason why a remand would be appropriate here," Martin Stolar, her lead attorney, told the judge. "She is not likely to be somebody to cut and run." Zweibel replied: "Remanded pending sentencing."


She was railroaded.

 
2014-05-07 04:31:23 AM  
k, I farked that up.

/it cut off the bottom of the quote and I re-pasted it afterward.
 
2014-05-07 04:42:14 AM  
Yeah I can't see this standing on a appeal the judge disallowed too much that should have been allowed,
 
2014-05-07 04:44:48 AM  

tbeatty: Her problem is turning down a misdemeanor plea bargain


She wasn't offered a misdemeanor plea bargain:

McMillan rejected an earlier offer from prosecutors for her to plead guilty to a charge of second-degree assault of a police officer, which would have still resulted in her being classed as a felon,

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/may/05/occupy-wall-street-ceci ly -mcmillan-guilty-assaulting-police-officer
 
2014-05-07 04:51:44 AM  
firefly212:
tbeatty, the judge made some questionable decisions by not allowing the jury to hear that the officer in question has numerous violations on his record for excessive force, and has filed inaccurate police reports. In a case that hedged so heavily on testimony, as the video was not allowed into evidence, the judge made it a he said/she said case, but nixed the ability of the defense to point out that the officer in question has been caught lying before and using excessive force before. IMO, if she gets decent lawyers, she has a shot on ...

Good luck with that.  Assault cases are narrowly limited to the evidence of assault. The defense contends it was accidental, not that it didn't happen.  Prejudicial evidence is generally not allowed (i.e. her past convictions for alcohol or arrests or history of violence is not allowed either).  This isn't new law or outside the normal practice so it's chance of success is virtually 0.  Her best bet now is take it and apply for clemency or expungement terms.
 
2014-05-07 04:59:27 AM  
Seven years for throwing an elbow?
Pussies.
In hockey that's just a few minutes.
 
2014-05-07 05:02:01 AM  

Nemo's Brother: Nabb1: TuteTibiImperes: Well, she faces up to 7 years, I doubt she'll get sentenced to that.

The NYT has a more detailed account of what happened.  She was drunk, yelling at another officer, which led the assaulted officer to try to lead her away.

7 years would certainly be excessive.  Time served and a probation would be about right.

She sure taught the 1% a lesson.

Obama coordinated the nation-wide crackdown on the Occupy movement. He initiated the police abuse on you all. Then you voted for him again.

/useful idiots


You're right!!! Only Romney could have saved America from the Kenyan usurper.
 
2014-05-07 05:04:40 AM  
Also, it's disturbing how many are anti-populace and pro-cop.

I can't verify or deny this claim but we are being tested. Police state = almost here.
 
2014-05-07 05:08:54 AM  

inclemency: Also, it's disturbing how many are anti-populace and pro-cop.

I can't verify or deny this claim but we are being tested. Police state = almost here.


There's assholes in both camps.

It's almost like you can look at the evidence shown in the media reports and decide which is being an asshole in a given situation.
 
2014-05-07 05:20:03 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: OWS had some great ideas and a ton of energy, but no direction and abysmal organization.


Well, not every group has an entire television channel devoted to promoting it like certain other diametrically opposed groups...
 
2014-05-07 05:20:39 AM  

Lenny_da_Hog: inclemency: Also, it's disturbing how many are anti-populace and pro-cop.

I can't verify or deny this claim but we are being tested. Police state = almost here.

There's assholes in both camps.


www.quickmeme.com
 
2014-05-07 05:25:56 AM  
See, on Fark, this is how you do it: You read the headline, in the knowledge that it is complete bullshiat, and then you read TFA until you get to the "reveal".
In this case, the "reveal" is that this chick hasn't been sentenced at all - she has merely been convicted of something with a maximum sentence of seven years, which she is not going to get, or anywhere near, probably.
Time served, probation, stiff fine, most likely.
 
2014-05-07 06:05:02 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: 7 years would certainly be excessive.  Time served and a probation would be about right.


Maybe even just time served.  This is one of those "I'm trying to do my job here, stop being a jackass" arrests, where the person being arrested probably wouldn't have been at all if she wasn't  trying to get arrested and the cops just wanted to get her drunk and belligerent ass out of the way before she hurt somebody.

If they gave her probation, they'd be wasting a probation officer's time.  They'll likely just put it on her record and let her head off.

// It's not strictly speaking necessarily "fair" in the strictly egalitarian sense, but in the larger moral sense I think the lesson here is don't intentionally be a douche.
 
2014-05-07 06:25:10 AM  

Frank N Stein: Why are leftist protestors such pushovers in the country compared to rightist protestors?



Because racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic cretins who fetishize a pro-corporate military state tend not to get maced, bludgeoned, unfairly prosecuted or trashed by the media.

Imagine if right-wingers were as oppressed as they think they are.
 
2014-05-07 06:46:53 AM  

Snatch Bandergrip: Because racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic cretins who fetishize a pro-corporate military state tend not to get maced, bludgeoned, unfairly prosecuted or trashed by the media.

Imagine if right-wingers were as oppressed as they think they are.


If you're comparing old Clive McRacist's grazing fee protests to OWS specifically, the difference in media coverage might have something to do with the fact that the grazing fee protest was unified and organized a specific, concrete issue with an actual legal argument (a kinda specious one, but one that suggested a specific re-interpretation/change in the law was desired) while OWS's line was basically "Some things aren't fair to like, some people, man.  Like, things maybe dealing with income, or something?  Or money, I guess banks have money, right?"

Getting the message out well enough to garner support is kind of dependent on having a message.  Same deal with a political movement and coherent goals.

// This is one of the ways the GOP is able to swing higher turnout than the Dems, as well.  Sure, their goals are  stupid, but they definitely have concrete, specific things they ostensibly want to accomplish.  "Repeal Obamacare" is an actual achievable thing that can verifiably be accomplished or not, for instance, and the Democrats haven't been putting anything similar forward.  Which is kind of a weird way for the message battle to be going, since in real terms the Dems have actually accomplished a few things here and there (mostly via Obama, the Dem congressmen are largely as useless as the GOP ones) and the Republicans haven't done jack shiat about jack shiat.
 
2014-05-07 06:48:25 AM  
If the prosecutor had a lick of sense the instant the boob grab thing came to light, especially with the picture of her being bruised in the area, the best course of action would've been to drop the charges. Especially in light of the offending officers past.
 
2014-05-07 07:13:49 AM  
Thanks for the clarity, subby. All the outrage on my facebook feed says it's a "sexual assault" leaving me to think the woman got raped. Good thing that euphemism is working in your favor, morons.
 
2014-05-07 07:14:33 AM  

WhyteRaven74: If the prosecutor had a lick of sense the instant the boob grab thing came to light, especially with the picture of her being bruised in the area, the best course of action would've been to drop the charges. Especially in light of the offending officers past.




Why?
If its not going to trigger a public response (which it probably won't) and neither the judge nor the jury call him on it, its just one more victory in the prosecutors ledger.
His interest is in tending to his scorebook, not justice for the accused.

/and people are too infatuated with having a system of laws to realize the execution of law has gone entirely off the rails.
 
2014-05-07 07:22:05 AM  

WhyteRaven74: If the prosecutor had a lick of sense the instant the boob grab thing came to light, especially with the picture of her being bruised in the area, the best course of action would've been to drop the charges. Especially in light of the offending officers past.


That would make sense if cops weren't typically treated as untouchable by the law.  But then everyone here knows that.
 
2014-05-07 07:29:12 AM  

King Something: TheBigJerk: Dafatone: TuteTibiImperes: Nabb1: TuteTibiImperes: Well, she faces up to 7 years, I doubt she'll get sentenced to that.

The NYT has a more detailed account of what happened.  She was drunk, yelling at another officer, which led the assaulted officer to try to lead her away.

7 years would certainly be excessive.  Time served and a probation would be about right.

She sure taught the 1% a lesson.

OWS had some great ideas and a ton of energy, but no direction and abysmal organization.  It's a shame that the potential there was mostly wasted.  They helped get the conversation started, but it could have been so much more if someone had managed to take charge, distill the message into some accessible soundbites, and do some halfway decent PR work to focus the media.

Actually, I think their impact in terms of moving the conversation was pretty substantial.

Nabb1 just used the term "the 1%".  That wasn't really in the common vocabulary before OWS.  Not that it was unheard of, but almost everybody today knows what it refers to.  That's actually a pretty large victory, simply to carve out a notion of the very (not super, but very) rich as a class, in a way that emphasizes their minority.

Especially considering the media, rather than organizing things directly and boosting them, was actively trying to bury them.

[i75.photobucket.com image 500x336]

And if OWS had some sort of central leadership, there would have been at least a 99% chance that the NYPD would have "found" 3 tons of meth (or something equally bad) in the leader's apartment, thus causing anyone who would have otherwise supported OWS to avoid them like the plague.


/at least until it was eventually revealed that the leader was railroaded by the NYPD Schutzstaffel
//and any officers who would have been involved in the plant-and-bust would have claimed they were Just Following Orders
[i.kinja-img.com image 636x358]


Like the NATO 3?  Who went from terrorist masterminds with an arsenal of weapons including a mortar and explosives and coldly calculated plans that slowly devolved into maybe 4 molotov cocktails and some ren-fest toys and a willingness to do what the undercover police told them to do.

Of course the nato 3 were actually too stoned to even DO half of what they were told to do, let alone lead a protest.
 
2014-05-07 07:41:00 AM  

Snatch Bandergrip: Because racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic cretins who fetishize a pro-corporate military state tend not to get maced, bludgeoned, unfairly prosecuted or trashed by the media.


A couple big differences you are missing.

I thought the land they were on land they didn't need permits to gather on.

It was out in the middle of nowhere, so it wasn't bothering anyone.

I don't think they actually "did" anything just threatened (and don't get me wrong, imho they should have beens tomped for that, but I understand not wanting to cause a bloodbath).

If you aren't talking about bundy, then the issue is that they actually got permits, cleaned up, and leftw hent he protest was over.
 
2014-05-07 07:46:53 AM  

Dafatone: TuteTibiImperes: Nabb1: TuteTibiImperes: Well, she faces up to 7 years, I doubt she'll get sentenced to that.

The NYT has a more detailed account of what happened.  She was drunk, yelling at another officer, which led the assaulted officer to try to lead her away.

7 years would certainly be excessive.  Time served and a probation would be about right.

She sure taught the 1% a lesson.

OWS had some great ideas and a ton of energy, but no direction and abysmal organization.  It's a shame that the potential there was mostly wasted.  They helped get the conversation started, but it could have been so much more if someone had managed to take charge, distill the message into some accessible soundbites, and do some halfway decent PR work to focus the media.

Actually, I think their impact in terms of moving the conversation was pretty substantial.

Nabb1 just used the term "the 1%".  That wasn't really in the common vocabulary before OWS.  Not that it was unheard of, but almost everybody today knows what it refers to.  That's actually a pretty large victory, simply to carve out a notion of the very (not super, but very) rich as a class, in a way that emphasizes their minority.


No. Viewing "the 1%" as the enemy is wrongheaded and divisive. There will always be a top 1% of earners; some of them are good, hard-working people, others are not. We need to examine the policies that prevent the wealth of the "99%" from rising as well, rather than demonize those who are prosperous. Income inequality isn't a problem per se*, it's a symptom of stagnant wages.

* - but it becomes a problem when combined with limitless campaign spending
 
2014-05-07 07:49:58 AM  
Can someone tell me how many days they actually occupied a building in Wall St.?

I can't seem to find a reference...
 
2014-05-07 07:50:04 AM  

GoldSpider: WhyteRaven74: If the prosecutor had a lick of sense the instant the boob grab thing came to light, especially with the picture of her being bruised in the area, the best course of action would've been to drop the charges. Especially in light of the offending officers past.

That would make sense if cops weren't typically treated as untouchable by the law.  But then everyone here knows that.



The modern term is "Dalit." Here is a picture:
upload.wikimedia.org
Or is that Dalek? The ones that roll around shouting "EXTERMINATE!" anyway.
 
2014-05-07 07:56:50 AM  

Wendy's Chili: No. Viewing "the 1%" as the enemy is wrongheaded and divisive. There will always be a top 1% of earners; some of them are good, hard-working people, others are not. We need to examine the policies that prevent the wealth of the "99%" from rising as well, rather than demonize those who are prosperous. Income inequality isn't a problem per se*, it's a symptom of stagnant wages.

* - but it becomes a problem when combined with limitless campaign spending


bulllshiattttttttt
You don't get 1 billion dollars by being a "good person." You do it on the backs of other people. Now whether the 1% term is too loose, fine. You could manage $300k a year without being completely evil. $10 million dollars a year? You are screwing several people over.

Do some of them work hard? Of course. Does that mean they deserve to make my annual salary in a day? fark noooooo.
 
2014-05-07 08:02:47 AM  

TuteTibiImperes: Nabb1: TuteTibiImperes: Well, she faces up to 7 years, I doubt she'll get sentenced to that.

The NYT has a more detailed account of what happened.  She was drunk, yelling at another officer, which led the assaulted officer to try to lead her away.

7 years would certainly be excessive.  Time served and a probation would be about right.

She sure taught the 1% a lesson.

OWS had some great ideas and a ton of energy, but no direction and abysmal organization.  It's a shame that the potential there was mostly wasted.  They helped get the conversation started, but it could have been so much more if someone had managed to take charge, distill the message into some accessible soundbites, and do some halfway decent PR work to focus the media.


You know, if people spent as much time and energy throwing support behind them instead of ho-humming about the lack of organization, if we'd spent as much time and energy listening to what they were saying instead of complaining about how their message was confusing, and spent as much time and energy distilling that message instead of acting all concerned and sharing "helpful" ideas about how they "should be doing things"... their potential might not have been so "wasted".
 
2014-05-07 08:05:08 AM  

bdub77: doglover: gaspode: she leapt in the air and clocked him in the face full on. Unless you can PROVE sexual assault then that is assault 100% of the time. That said actual prison time would be utterly ridiculous.

I've always wanted fight a line of riot police in full knight armor with a club and some people of my own. Like these two.

[media2.s-nbcnews.com image 850x584]

The problem is I don't want to do any of the things or be in any of the situations that CAUSE riot cops to show up, nor do I want to be arrested nor physically hurt anyone. I just want to see how well sword vs nightstick. Just sparing unit to unit.

If we're talking riot cops with shields, then you're basically talking about attacking a phalanx with another phalanx, in which case maybe bringing spears would be better. Just sayin. Or cavalry. Or flank them.

Either way a sword would beat the living f*ck out of a cop's club, if wearing the proper armor. But cops tend to bring out the guns against swordsmen in plate. Good luck with that.


It's better to take an indirect approach against such a force. Disable their vehicles, cut their lines of communication, flank their positions with numbers and they'll never even put up resistance to begin with. The problem is always that police are highly organized and protestors are not.

This would cause chaos, but really nothing is ever going to change without a little chaos.
 
2014-05-07 08:10:08 AM  

bdub77: doglover: gaspode: she leapt in the air and clocked him in the face full on. Unless you can PROVE sexual assault then that is assault 100% of the time. That said actual prison time would be utterly ridiculous.

I've always wanted fight a line of riot police in full knight armor with a club and some people of my own. Like these two.

[media2.s-nbcnews.com image 850x584]

The problem is I don't want to do any of the things or be in any of the situations that CAUSE riot cops to show up, nor do I want to be arrested nor physically hurt anyone. I just want to see how well sword vs nightstick. Just sparing unit to unit.

If we're talking riot cops with shields, then you're basically talking about attacking a phalanx with another phalanx, in which case maybe bringing spears would be better. Just sayin. Or cavalry. Or flank them.

Either way a sword would beat the living f*ck out of a cop's club, if wearing the proper armor. But cops tend to bring out the guns against swordsmen in plate. Good luck with that.


I'm now imagining a squad of riot police spotting the cavalry on the horizon and calling the sappers up to entrench before calling out square formation.

It's hilarious.

/BY FILES, RIGHT!  HALT!  WHEEL LEFT!  HALT!  SQUARE FORMATION!
 
2014-05-07 08:11:35 AM  

Wendy's Chili: Dafatone: TuteTibiImperes: Nabb1: TuteTibiImperes: Well, she faces up to 7 years, I doubt she'll get sentenced to that.

The NYT has a more detailed account of what happened.  She was drunk, yelling at another officer, which led the assaulted officer to try to lead her away.

7 years would certainly be excessive.  Time served and a probation would be about right.

She sure taught the 1% a lesson.

OWS had some great ideas and a ton of energy, but no direction and abysmal organization.  It's a shame that the potential there was mostly wasted.  They helped get the conversation started, but it could have been so much more if someone had managed to take charge, distill the message into some accessible soundbites, and do some halfway decent PR work to focus the media.

Actually, I think their impact in terms of moving the conversation was pretty substantial.

Nabb1 just used the term "the 1%".  That wasn't really in the common vocabulary before OWS.  Not that it was unheard of, but almost everybody today knows what it refers to.  That's actually a pretty large victory, simply to carve out a notion of the very (not super, but very) rich as a class, in a way that emphasizes their minority.

No. Viewing "the 1%" as the enemy is wrongheaded and divisive. There will always be a top 1% of earners; some of them are good, hard-working people, others are not. We need to examine the policies that prevent the wealth of the "99%" from rising as well, rather than demonize those who are prosperous. Income inequality isn't a problem per se*, it's a symptom of stagnant wages.

* - but it becomes a problem when combined with limitless campaign spending


What's preventing them from rising up as well is that a small number of already rich people are reaping all the rewards from increased productivity of working class labor necessary to make the economy function.

Kinda creates a conundrum doesn't it.
 
2014-05-07 08:12:40 AM  

liam76: Snatch Bandergrip: Because racist, sexist, homophobic, xenophobic cretins who fetishize a pro-corporate military state tend not to get maced, bludgeoned, unfairly prosecuted or trashed by the media.

A couple big differences you are missing.

I thought the land they were on land they didn't need permits to gather on.

It was out in the middle of nowhere, so it wasn't bothering anyone.

I don't think they actually "did" anything just threatened (and don't get me wrong, imho they should have beens tomped for that, but I understand not wanting to cause a bloodbath).

If you aren't talking about bundy, then the issue is that they actually got permits, cleaned up, and leftw hent he protest was over.


Corrections:

Both organizations usually got permits, but occasionally just squatted without permission; only one side ever got maced and beaten for it.  Also only one side had their permits revoked for basically no reason.

Most Tea Party rallies actually did block traffic, I live in Houston and a couple of days I had to find a new way to get home after work.

And if we're talking about Bundy, oh they did stuff.  In fact they basically robbed government agents at gunpoint.  But they were armed, old, and wore cowboy hats so it was okay.  If OWS had worn cowboy hats and carried guns...

Well actually the agent-provocateurs and/or the police would have started shooting, most likely, but it's hard to say for sure.
 
2014-05-07 08:15:44 AM  

Slappy McLongstockings: Can someone tell me how many days they actually occupied a building in Wall St.?

I can't seem to find a reference...


First of all, that would miss the point.  But the big "occupation" was a several week long gathering at Zuccotti Park.  Which technically belongs to Brookfield Holdings, a real estate company.

The real point, however, wasn't to disrupt wall street, but to be a visible, long-term statement.  Even if they got denigrated at every turn, we all had to look at them for about a month.  And then we talked about them for another 3.  And now we're seeing raises in the minimum wage, and the issues of wealth condensation and income inequality are not part of our public consciousness.

Not exactly "mission accomplished" but I guarantee it's better than what the chucklefarks who get on the internet to hate on them would come up with.
 
2014-05-07 08:17:09 AM  

Nemo's Brother: Nabb1: TuteTibiImperes: Well, she faces up to 7 years, I doubt she'll get sentenced to that.

The NYT has a more detailed account of what happened.  She was drunk, yelling at another officer, which led the assaulted officer to try to lead her away.

7 years would certainly be excessive.  Time served and a probation would be about right.

She sure taught the 1% a lesson.

Obama coordinated the nation-wide crackdown on the Occupy movement. He initiated the police abuse on you all. Then you voted for him again.

/useful idiots


no he didn't. that was all local police. and contrary to what you believe Obama is not the mayor and police chief of every city.
 
2014-05-07 08:20:03 AM  

BeesNuts: TuteTibiImperes: Nabb1: TuteTibiImperes: Well, she faces up to 7 years, I doubt she'll get sentenced to that.

The NYT has a more detailed account of what happened.  She was drunk, yelling at another officer, which led the assaulted officer to try to lead her away.

7 years would certainly be excessive.  Time served and a probation would be about right.

She sure taught the 1% a lesson.

OWS had some great ideas and a ton of energy, but no direction and abysmal organization.  It's a shame that the potential there was mostly wasted.  They helped get the conversation started, but it could have been so much more if someone had managed to take charge, distill the message into some accessible soundbites, and do some halfway decent PR work to focus the media.

You know, if people spent as much time and energy throwing support behind them instead of ho-humming about the lack of organization, if we'd spent as much time and energy listening to what they were saying instead of complaining about how their message was confusing, and spent as much time and energy distilling that message instead of acting all concerned and sharing "helpful" ideas about how they "should be doing things"... their potential might not have been so "wasted".


They squandered their opportunity when they insisted on being a "leaderless movement" that "worked outside the system."

If you want to enact political change, you need a few politicians on your side. But when civil rights hero John Lewis tried to participate, he was denied because he committed the unforgivable sin of representing their progressive views in an actual legislative body.
 
2014-05-07 08:29:41 AM  

MayoSlather: Wendy's Chili: Dafatone: TuteTibiImperes: Nabb1: TuteTibiImperes: Well, she faces up to 7 years, I doubt she'll get sentenced to that.

The NYT has a more detailed account of what happened.  She was drunk, yelling at another officer, which led the assaulted officer to try to lead her away.

7 years would certainly be excessive.  Time served and a probation would be about right.

She sure taught the 1% a lesson.

OWS had some great ideas and a ton of energy, but no direction and abysmal organization.  It's a shame that the potential there was mostly wasted.  They helped get the conversation started, but it could have been so much more if someone had managed to take charge, distill the message into some accessible soundbites, and do some halfway decent PR work to focus the media.

Actually, I think their impact in terms of moving the conversation was pretty substantial.

Nabb1 just used the term "the 1%".  That wasn't really in the common vocabulary before OWS.  Not that it was unheard of, but almost everybody today knows what it refers to.  That's actually a pretty large victory, simply to carve out a notion of the very (not super, but very) rich as a class, in a way that emphasizes their minority.

No. Viewing "the 1%" as the enemy is wrongheaded and divisive. There will always be a top 1% of earners; some of them are good, hard-working people, others are not. We need to examine the policies that prevent the wealth of the "99%" from rising as well, rather than demonize those who are prosperous. Income inequality isn't a problem per se*, it's a symptom of stagnant wages.

* - but it becomes a problem when combined with limitless campaign spending

What's preventing them from rising up as well is that a small number of already rich people are reaping all the rewards from increased productivity of working class labor necessary to make the economy function.

Kinda creates a conundrum doesn't it.


No, not at all. The distribution of wealth in our country is a function of our business regulations, trade policies, labor and immigration laws, and social safety net. If we want to change those things, we need to put people in office who want to change them. If a member of the dreaded "1%" works to help achieve that goal--as many of them do--I don't see how they can be viewed as an enemy.
 
2014-05-07 08:31:04 AM  

TheBigJerk: Both organizations usually got permits, but occasionally just squatted without permission; only one side ever got maced and beaten for it. Also only one side had their permits revoked for basically no reason.


Did tea party ever squat?

I don't believe there was ever a permit for Zucatti park, or for the Occupy oakland. Could be wrong.

And before we get any futher into this, I don't like the idea of pairing them as equal or equivalent elements. I don't in any support for the backwards assclownage that is the tea party. They are pretty much a mouthpiece for th extreme wing for the republican party.

TheBigJerk: Most Tea Party rallies actually did block traffic, I live in Houston and a couple of days I had to find a new way to get home after work.


Did they have a permit to block traffic?
That woudl be news to me and if you have a lin of a tea party protest blocking traffic sans permit, I would be interested in reading it.


TheBigJerk: And if we're talking about Bundy, oh they did stuff. In fact they basically robbed government agents at gunpoint. But they were armed, old, and wore cowboy hats so it was okay.


They "basically" robbed them by having cows do what they have done for 15+ years. As I said above, I am fine with feds escalating it if they are threatening them with guns. I think he is a complete asshat and if he was put down whiel threatening people stopping him from stealing I would probably have a laugh over it.


TheBigJerk: If OWS had worn cowboy hats and carried guns...

Well actually the agent-provocateurs and/or the police would have started shooting, most likely, but it's hard to say for sure


Do you really think the differences in hwo they were treated is due to politics? I don't think Obama is some crazy socialist as you hear portrayed on Fox news, but I am pretty sure his politics fall more in line with OWS then Bundy, and his Bozos. It seems silly to say that it is their politics that drove how they were treated, and my mistake if that isn't what you were saying, but if it isn;t I am confused as to your point.
 
2014-05-07 08:40:26 AM  

red5ish: Seven years for throwing an elbow?
Pussies.
In hockey that's just a few minutes.


i.kinja-img.com
 
2014-05-07 08:41:48 AM  
Maybe they could let Bernie Madoff out, to make room for her.

He could then go on and do what he's good at, managing the police pension fund.
 
2014-05-07 08:46:12 AM  

Wendy's Chili: BeesNuts: TuteTibiImperes: Nabb1: TuteTibiImperes: Well, she faces up to 7 years, I doubt she'll get sentenced to that.

The NYT has a more detailed account of what happened.  She was drunk, yelling at another officer, which led the assaulted officer to try to lead her away.

7 years would certainly be excessive.  Time served and a probation would be about right.

She sure taught the 1% a lesson.

OWS had some great ideas and a ton of energy, but no direction and abysmal organization.  It's a shame that the potential there was mostly wasted.  They helped get the conversation started, but it could have been so much more if someone had managed to take charge, distill the message into some accessible soundbites, and do some halfway decent PR work to focus the media.

You know, if people spent as much time and energy throwing support behind them instead of ho-humming about the lack of organization, if we'd spent as much time and energy listening to what they were saying instead of complaining about how their message was confusing, and spent as much time and energy distilling that message instead of acting all concerned and sharing "helpful" ideas about how they "should be doing things"... their potential might not have been so "wasted".

They squandered their opportunity when they insisted on being a "leaderless movement" that "worked outside the system."

If you want to enact political change, you need a few politicians on your side. But when civil rights hero John Lewis tried to participate, he was denied because he committed the unforgivable sin of representing their progressive views in an actual legislative body.


It really seems to work out great when a grassroots movement hands the reigns over to the power structure, doesn't it?  Yeah, Lewis would have been a great asset.  He also would have necessarily quelled the actual voice of OWS.

The problem wasn't how they conducted themselves, it's how people just outright HATED them for some reason.  The PR campaign against them was absolutely incredible and had nothing to do with whether they had a "leader" or not.

What's stupid is to continue to denigrate them for OUR mistakes.
 
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