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(SFGate)   State of Texas fighting for the right to torture people to death. Curiously, this has nothing to do with a Rick Perry speech. Yet   ( sfgate.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, death penalty, Clayton Lockett, Rick Perry, campbell, civil rights  
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1570 clicks; posted to Politics » on 06 May 2014 at 5:20 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-06 04:16:49 PM  
I think the torture angle is stupid debate point relating to execution.  A much more valid debate point is how disproportionately execution ends up being applied to poor and minority people.

I'm not 100% against capital punishment but certainly the US is not even close to being able to apply this penalty with any fairness.
 
2014-05-06 04:26:35 PM  
Is this article about what they try to call "barbecue"?
 
2014-05-06 04:57:13 PM  
Campbell's lawyers say it doesn't matter that Texas uses a single drug, pentobarbital, while Oklahoma used a three-drug combination because all of the potent drugs have potentially serious side effects.

Wait, we are concerned with potentially serious side-effects from the drugs we are killing people with?  wuh?
 
2014-05-06 05:23:39 PM  
If you're going to do it use a rope or a gun. Have no idea why they got such a jones for doing drugs
 
2014-05-06 05:23:54 PM  
You'd think that the Taxed Enough Already folks in Texas would want to know exactly which drugs their tax dollars were buying, and from where.
 
2014-05-06 05:24:37 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: Campbell's lawyers say it doesn't matter that Texas uses a single drug, pentobarbital, while Oklahoma used a three-drug combination because all of the potent drugs have potentially serious side effects.

Wait, we are concerned with potentially serious side-effects from the drugs we are killing people with?  wuh?


It's been big news worldwide, after what Oklaholma did.
 
2014-05-06 05:24:48 PM  
conservatives: full faith in government to kill poor american citizens, no faith in government to feed poor american citizens.
 
2014-05-06 05:25:54 PM  
FTFA: Campbell's lawyers argue that the problem is the secrecy surrounding the drugs, and that the drug supplier's name is necessary to obtain and test the efficiency of the drugs ...

I think they should test the efficiency of the drugs on Campbell's lawyers.
 
2014-05-06 05:26:24 PM  

Nabb1: Is this article about what they try to call "barbecue"?


Whatchu talkin' 'bout?

We have the best BBQ in the country.

Lil' place called Franklin.

That line starts at 8:30 in the morning, 4 hours before they're even open..



fedmanwalking.comView Full Size
 
2014-05-06 05:28:11 PM  
"...like Campbell, who was convicted of abducting, raping and killing a woman in 1991"

Well, now we know who Glenn Beck framed.
 
2014-05-06 05:28:25 PM  

whither_apophis: If you're going to do it use a rope or a gun. Have no idea why they got such a jones for doing drugs


Ultimately, I think the drugs were intended to be "painless" in regards to cruel and unusual punishment. Unfortunately, since our government and pharmaceutical industries are keeping the secret on said drugs, it's not precisely the case.

My question would be why they settled on IV drugs rather than inhaled. Depending on the method, suffocation can be relatively painless and it's harder to mess up with untrained personnel.
 
2014-05-06 05:29:08 PM  
The issue surfaced in Texas - the nation's most active death penalty state - when it replenished its execution drug stock in late March. But the U.S. Supreme Court rejected appeals that focused on secrecy surrounding the drug supplier's name, and three Texas inmates have been executed since then.

Looks like they have already tested the efficiency of the drugs.
 
2014-05-06 05:29:14 PM  

Danger Avoid Death: FTFA: Campbell's lawyers argue that the problem is the secrecy surrounding the drugs, and that the drug supplier's name is necessary to obtain and test the efficiency of the drugs ...

I think they should test the efficiency of the drugs on Campbell's lawyers.


Trololo
 
2014-05-06 05:30:13 PM  

Maud Dib: Lil' place called Franklin.


Screw Franklin's.

Give me Green Mesquite. I don't need to wait in a damn line half my day for awesome barbecue.
 
2014-05-06 05:31:41 PM  

mrshowrules: I think the torture angle is stupid debate point relating to execution.


The 8th Amendment is a "stupid debate point"? Try that argument with the 2nd and see how far it gets you.
 
2014-05-06 05:32:14 PM  
Dishonest troll headline is dishonest, subby.
 
2014-05-06 05:32:18 PM  
Texas needs to pass that law requiring the Governor to personally step in if the execution takes more than four minutes and club the convicted to death with an iron pipe -- without once touching his hair..
 
2014-05-06 05:32:40 PM  

Saiga410: The issue surfaced in Texas - the nation's most active death penalty state - when it replenished its execution drug stock in late March. But the U.S. Supreme Court rejected appeals that focused on secrecy surrounding the drug supplier's name, and three Texas inmates have been executed since then.

Looks like they have already tested the efficiency of the drugs.


Pump enough of anything into someone's system and it will kill them. The problem arises when the unnamed drugs have unknown side effects and are utilized by people without the training to administer them properly. If you love the Constitution, then you know there's something in there in regards to cruel and unusual punishment.
 
2014-05-06 05:34:06 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: Wait, we are concerned with potentially serious side-effects from the drugs we are killing people with? wuh?


The whole "cruel and unusual punishment" thing
 
2014-05-06 05:34:18 PM  

Summoner101: whither_apophis: If you're going to do it use a rope or a gun. Have no idea why they got such a jones for doing drugs

Ultimately, I think the drugs were intended to be "painless" in regards to cruel and unusual punishment. Unfortunately, since our government and pharmaceutical industries are keeping the secret on said drugs, it's not precisely the case.

My question would be why they settled on IV drugs rather than inhaled. Depending on the method, suffocation can be relatively painless and it's harder to mess up with untrained personnel.


Don't advocates of compassionate euthanasia recommend an oxygen mask hooked up to a helium tank as a painless means of doing yourself in?   That seems like it would work, plus helium is cheap.

Or, just give the guy a massive OD of narcotic painkillers and let him have a few moments of bliss before he passes out and away.
 
2014-05-06 05:34:59 PM  
FTFA:  Lawyers for Robert Campbell filed a federal civil rights lawsuit citing the Oklahoma execution that went awry

why do the say it went awry?  He is dead isn't he?
 
2014-05-06 05:36:01 PM  
Why not just shoot the guy in the head for an almost instantaneous and therefore painless execution.  Much cheaper than buying medical drugs and you can even use multiple bullets just to ensure death happens and is as quick as possible.  I think that is far more humane then what we currently do.

Also freedom of information, the people have a right to know what their government is doing, Texas has no right to hide that information.
 
2014-05-06 05:36:24 PM  

Headso: conservatives: full faith in government to kill poor american citizens, no faith in government to feed poor american citizens.


The Constitution is just like the Bible, you get to pick and choose which parts you want to follow
 
2014-05-06 05:37:35 PM  

Warlordtrooper: Why not just shoot the guy in the head for an almost instantaneous and therefore painless execution. Much cheaper than buying medical drugs and you can even use multiple bullets just to ensure death happens and is as quick as possible. I think that is far more humane then what we currently do.


Counterpoint: Gabby Giffords
 
2014-05-06 05:38:11 PM  

Maud Dib: Nabb1: Is this article about what they try to call "barbecue"?

Whatchu talkin' 'bout?We have the best BBQ in the country.Lil' place called Franklin.That line starts at 8:30 in the morning, 4 hours before they're even open..

[www.fedmanwalking.com image 850x374]


so that's what that line is for. I parked near there once for some reason i can't remember ( either sxsw or acl or just staying for the weekend) and I couldn't for the life of me figure out why all these people were hanging around that little restaurant.
 
2014-05-06 05:38:27 PM  

mrshowrules: I think the torture angle is stupid debate point relating to execution.  A much more valid debate point is how disproportionately execution ends up being applied to poor and minority people.

I'm not 100% against capital punishment but certainly the US is not even close to being able to apply this penalty with any fairness.


Or how about the percentage of innocent men on death row?
 
2014-05-06 05:38:27 PM  

BitwiseShift: Texas needs to pass that law requiring the Governor to personally step in if the execution takes more than four minutes and club the convicted to death with an iron pipe -- without once touching his hair..


FTFA - Oklahoma officials tried for 51 minutes to find a vein in Lockett's arms and feet before inserting an IV through his groin. That vein collapsed, but the dislodged line was under a sheet and wasn't discovered until 21 minutes after the execution began, according to a report from the state's prison chief.

Yup can't argue with your statement.  That must have been hell for the guy, "dood we're totally going to kill you, as soon as we can tap a vein brah".

And I don't care what he did, the state should have much MUCH higher standards than the condemned do when killing.
 
2014-05-06 05:38:59 PM  

Lionel Mandrake: Campbell's lawyers say it doesn't matter that Texas uses a single drug, pentobarbital, while Oklahoma used a three-drug combination because all of the potent drugs have potentially serious side effects.

Wait, we are concerned with potentially serious side-effects from the drugs we are killing people with?  wuh?


They don't give a rat's behind about side-effects.  They only wish to stall and delay the execution.  If this appeal fails, they have three or four other "issues" they will bring up.
 
2014-05-06 05:39:06 PM  

Warlordtrooper: Why not just shoot the guy in the head for an almost instantaneous and therefore painless execution.


It's not as quick or foolproof as it seems. Decapitation seems like the way to go, assuming you can't just be put painlessly to sleep.
 
2014-05-06 05:39:40 PM  

Warlordtrooper: Why not just shoot the guy in the head for an almost instantaneous and therefore painless execution.  Much cheaper than buying medical drugs and you can even use multiple bullets just to ensure death happens and is as quick as possible.  I think that is far more humane then what we currently do.

Also freedom of information, the people have a right to know what their government is doing, Texas has no right to hide that information.


IIRC firing squads were abolished because of the mental toll it was taking on the people doing the shooting.
 
2014-05-06 05:40:03 PM  
Came for tiny burrito hamster references, left unsatisfied.
 
2014-05-06 05:43:10 PM  

Cataholic: Lionel Mandrake: Campbell's lawyers say it doesn't matter that Texas uses a single drug, pentobarbital, while Oklahoma used a three-drug combination because all of the potent drugs have potentially serious side effects.

Wait, we are concerned with potentially serious side-effects from the drugs we are killing people with?  wuh?

They don't give a rat's behind about side-effects.  They only wish to stall and delay the execution.  If this appeal fails, they have three or four other "issues" they will bring up.


You don't think potential side effects of an IV administered drug are important in killing someone in regards to cruel and unusual punishment?

Hey everyone, look at this guy!
 
2014-05-06 05:44:29 PM  
Can the rest of the country secede from Texas? Is that a thing that we could do?
 
2014-05-06 05:45:20 PM  

mrshowrules: I think the torture angle is stupid debate point relating to execution.  A much more valid debate point is how disproportionately execution ends up being applied to poor and minority people.

I'm not 100% against capital punishment but certainly the US is not even close to being able to apply this penalty with any fairness.


Agree completely. And i see capital punishment as more of a means as to remove certain individuals from the population who would, with their continued existence, jeopardize the well-being of every other person around them, in whatever manner that person does it. Serial killers, serial rapists, people who see nothing wrong with screwing over tens of thousands of people out of their life savings to get cash they'll never be able to spend up in their life time (cause to them, the amount of money you can get out of it is the goal, not the money itself). Capital punishment for revenge or as a deterrent is stupid, cause the first never really helps and the second doesn't work.
 
2014-05-06 05:48:18 PM  

whither_apophis: If you're going to do it use a rope or a gun. Have no idea why they got such a jones for doing drugs


Warlordtrooper: Why not just shoot the guy in the head for an almost instantaneous and therefore painless execution.  .


someonelse:  Decapitation seems like the way to go

Shooting and decapitation always leave blood, and hanging often does.  It's why those methods have fallen out of favor.
 
2014-05-06 05:48:26 PM  
Good luck with that, Texas  hasdisclosed what drug it uses: as TFA itself notes, it's phenobarbital.

Pheno is a barbituate will well-known medical uses (it's a barbituate primarily used to treat seizures) that's been around on the order of a century.  It's a strong sedative and hypnotic, overdosing on it is essentially going to sleep and not waking up again.  It's also got a history of being used recreationally so it's pretty definitive that it's not particularly unpleasant.  Basically, someone brought up the "well, why not just give 'em a lethal dose of heroin to avoid the possibility of it being cruel?" argument and Texas... actually did.

It's an  incredibly well-understood substance and there's no informational value whatsoever in revealing the supplier's name unless you wanted to engage in some domestic terrorism against them.  The issues with Oklahoma's retarded three-drug combination shiat just don't really apply here.

Warlordtrooper: Why not just shoot the guy in the head for an almost instantaneous and therefore painless execution.


I would suspect because the data on most of the people that have been shot in the head but not quite died doesn't actually indicate that it's relatively painless?
 
2014-05-06 05:53:47 PM  

Jim_Callahan: Good luck with that, Texas  hasdisclosed what drug it uses: as TFA itself notes, it's phenobarbital.

Pheno is a barbituate will well-known medical uses (it's a barbituate primarily used to treat seizures) that's been around on the order of a century.  It's a strong sedative and hypnotic, overdosing on it is essentially going to sleep and not waking up again.  It's also got a history of being used recreationally so it's pretty definitive that it's not particularly unpleasant.  Basically, someone brought up the "well, why not just give 'em a lethal dose of heroin to avoid the possibility of it being cruel?" argument and Texas... actually did.

It's an  incredibly well-understood substance and there's no informational value whatsoever in revealing the supplier's name unless you wanted to engage in some domestic terrorism against them.  The issues with Oklahoma's retarded three-drug combination shiat just don't really apply here.

Warlordtrooper: Why not just shoot the guy in the head for an almost instantaneous and therefore painless execution.

I would suspect because the data on most of the people that have been shot in the head but not quite died doesn't actually indicate that it's relatively painless?


How about with a shotgun aimed at the brainstem. I'd imagine the people who shoot themselves in the head are the ones that miss, as in aim for the temple and just lobotomise themselves, or the ones that go for the under-chin and aiming up approach, then just shoot their faces off.
 
2014-05-06 05:54:33 PM  

Summoner101: Cataholic: Lionel Mandrake: Campbell's lawyers say it doesn't matter that Texas uses a single drug, pentobarbital, while Oklahoma used a three-drug combination because all of the potent drugs have potentially serious side effects.

Wait, we are concerned with potentially serious side-effects from the drugs we are killing people with?  wuh?

They don't give a rat's behind about side-effects.  They only wish to stall and delay the execution.  If this appeal fails, they have three or four other "issues" they will bring up.

You don't think potential side effects of an IV administered drug are important in killing someone in regards to cruel and unusual punishment?

Hey everyone, look at this guy!


The side effects of pentobarbital are fairly well known.  If you are concerned about the quality or purity of the drug, then blame the anti death-penalty advocates who hound anyone out of business who sells quality drugs to the states as soon as they find out who it is.
 
2014-05-06 05:55:40 PM  

Cataholic: Summoner101: Cataholic: Lionel Mandrake: Campbell's lawyers say it doesn't matter that Texas uses a single drug, pentobarbital, while Oklahoma used a three-drug combination because all of the potent drugs have potentially serious side effects.

Wait, we are concerned with potentially serious side-effects from the drugs we are killing people with?  wuh?

They don't give a rat's behind about side-effects.  They only wish to stall and delay the execution.  If this appeal fails, they have three or four other "issues" they will bring up.

You don't think potential side effects of an IV administered drug are important in killing someone in regards to cruel and unusual punishment?

Hey everyone, look at this guy!

The side effects of pentobarbital are fairly well known.  If you are concerned about the quality or purity of the drug, then blame the anti death-penalty advocates who hound anyone out of business who sells quality drugs to the states as soon as they find out who it is.


Why do you hate the Free Market?
 
2014-05-06 05:59:28 PM  

mrshowrules: I think the torture angle is stupid debate point relating to execution.  A much more valid debate point is how disproportionately execution ends up being applied to poor and minority people.


An even more valid debate is that Cameron Todd Willingham was posthumously found innocent of the crime for which was executed.

But here in Texas, I guess we allow for "acceptable losses" as long as we get to keep killing killers.
 
2014-05-06 06:00:03 PM  

Cataholic: Summoner101: Cataholic: Lionel Mandrake: Campbell's lawyers say it doesn't matter that Texas uses a single drug, pentobarbital, while Oklahoma used a three-drug combination because all of the potent drugs have potentially serious side effects.

Wait, we are concerned with potentially serious side-effects from the drugs we are killing people with?  wuh?

They don't give a rat's behind about side-effects.  They only wish to stall and delay the execution.  If this appeal fails, they have three or four other "issues" they will bring up.

You don't think potential side effects of an IV administered drug are important in killing someone in regards to cruel and unusual punishment?

Hey everyone, look at this guy!

The side effects of pentobarbital are fairly well known.  If you are concerned about the quality or purity of the drug, then blame the anti death-penalty advocates who hound anyone out of business who sells quality drugs to the states as soon as they find out who it is.


With how powerful the anti-death penalty advocates are, how do we still have the death penalty?
 
2014-05-06 06:04:49 PM  

gunga galunga: mrshowrules: I think the torture angle is stupid debate point relating to execution.  A much more valid debate point is how disproportionately execution ends up being applied to poor and minority people.

An even more valid debate is that Cameron Todd Willingham was posthumously found innocent of the crime for which was executed.

But here in Texas, I guess we allow for "acceptable losses" as long as we get to keep killing killers.


Another point i agree with, in addition to the one i made above about the use of capitol punishment. With the current state of the US criminal justice system, where conviction rates for DAs and getting asses into for-profit prisons trumps all, the death penalty should not be an option. For it to work, you need a system that actually focuses on justice and not just winning cases.
 
2014-05-06 06:06:40 PM  

Stargazer86: "...like Campbell, who was convicted of abducting, raping and killing a woman in 1991"

Well, now we know who Glenn Beck framed.


That was in 1990. But if Beck was indeed involved in something nefarious involving a young girl back then, he would have probably needed help, and this was guy wasn't in prison back then.

/just sayin
 
2014-05-06 06:06:48 PM  

shower_in_my_socks: Can the rest of the country secede from Texas? Is that a thing that we could do?


Sure, and we'll just go ahead and quit allowing people from the states that voted to kick us out to move here.  There's enough of you here already as it is.  You can visit anytime you like, but you just can't stay.  I'll take that as a win/win.
 
2014-05-06 06:08:19 PM  

gunga galunga: mrshowrules: I think the torture angle is stupid debate point relating to execution.  A much more valid debate point is how disproportionately execution ends up being applied to poor and minority people.

An even more valid debate is that Cameron Todd Willingham was posthumously found innocent of the crime for which was executed.
.


Officially?  I thought that the order exonerating Willingham failed to make it past a state appeals court.
 
2014-05-06 06:08:43 PM  

Jim_Callahan: Good luck with that, Texas  hasdisclosed what drug it uses: as TFA itself notes, it's phenobarbital.

Pheno is a barbituate will well-known medical uses (it's a barbituate primarily used to treat seizures) that's been around on the order of a century.  It's a strong sedative and hypnotic, overdosing on it is essentially going to sleep and not waking up again.  It's also got a history of being used recreationally so it's pretty definitive that it's not particularly unpleasant.  Basically, someone brought up the "well, why not just give 'em a lethal dose of heroin to avoid the possibility of it being cruel?" argument and Texas... actually did.

It's an  incredibly well-understood substance and there's no informational value whatsoever in revealing the supplier's name unless you wanted to engage in some domestic terrorism against them.  The issues with Oklahoma's retarded three-drug combination shiat just don't really apply here.

Warlordtrooper: Why not just shoot the guy in the head for an almost instantaneous and therefore painless execution.

I would suspect because the data on most of the people that have been shot in the head but not quite died doesn't actually indicate that it's relatively painless?


From what I've understood it's not to avoid domestic terrorism, it's because basically the entirety of Europe will refuse to do business with you if they find out you're supplying the lethal injection drugs.

http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2014/02/can-europe- en d-the-death-penalty-in-america/283790/
 
2014-05-06 06:11:36 PM  

Random Guy: FTFA:  Lawyers for Robert Campbell filed a federal civil rights lawsuit citing the Oklahoma execution that went awry

why do the say it went awry?  He is dead isn't he?


So sayeth ABC News.

img.fark.netView Full Size

 
2014-05-06 06:17:08 PM  

ox45tallboy: Random Guy: FTFA:  Lawyers for Robert Campbell filed a federal civil rights lawsuit citing the Oklahoma execution that went awry

why do the say it went awry?  He is dead isn't he?

So sayeth ABC News.

[img.fark.net image 808x411]


That headline however is...

jameyhoward.comView Full Size
 
2014-05-06 06:17:39 PM  

Communist_Manifesto: From what I've understood it's not to avoid domestic terrorism, it's because basically the entirety of Europe will refuse to do business with you if they find out you're supplying the lethal injection drugs.



Well, that's a completely legitimate reason not to release the supplier as well, then.  Trade disputes, especially ones that would probably end in international patent and trademark law essentially vanishing into thin air (since to not make that completely toothless Europe would have to ditch half of international law and start violating treaties by making knockoffs of a lot of things) are something that most nations have a very strong interest in avoiding.
 
2014-05-06 06:17:43 PM  

tirob: Officially?  I thought that the order exonerating Willingham failed to make it past a state appeals court.


Can't have anyone admitting they wrongfully convicted someone. The whole system might fall apart.

If anyone thinks Willingham's case isn't enough to do away with the death penalty, or at least drastically limit its use to Timothy McVeigh-level evil, take a look at George Stinney.
 
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