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(Vital Football)   British Football Association considers allowing 'B' teams into the top league. For you Americans, that's as ridiculous as allowing teams from Phoenix or Winnipeg to play in the NHL. What?   (walsall.vitalfootball.co.uk) divider line 59
    More: Stupid, British Football Association, NHL, football league, Winnipeg, Americans, La Liga, Premier League  
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481 clicks; posted to Sports » on 06 May 2014 at 11:53 AM (28 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-06 10:55:16 AM  
I know what the Premier League is and I know what relegation is, but I have no idea what anything in the article means.  WTF is Conference?
 
2014-05-06 11:05:50 AM  
You leave my Coyotes out of this, Submitter!
 
2014-05-06 12:00:46 PM  
British Football Association considers allowing 'B' teams into the top league. For you AmericansCanadians, that's as ridiculous as allowing teams from Phoenix or Winnipeg to play in the NHL. What?

FTFY, subby

or

British Football Association considers allowing 'B' teams into the top league. For you Americans, that's as ridiculous as allowing teams from PhoenixJacksonville or WinnipegCleveland to play in the NHLNFL. What?
 
2014-05-06 12:01:17 PM  
hockey is pretty fun to watch but i'm not a fan.

whenever phoenix gets bashed as a hockey town, we always kinda wonder how different the franchise's fortune would have been had they built the stadium in Scottsdale at the old Los Arcos (ok, now it is the "Windsong" or whatever, which is still not really doing anything last i checked).....3-5 minutes from the 202, maybe 5 from the 101, maybe, ehhhhhhh, 15 at most from "downtown" phoenix.....glendale is just so farking far.  i know a few east valley hockey fans that won't go to games on "school nights".  had they built it there, you'd have the entire east valley in your ass pocket.

doesn't matter now but, yeah, scottsdale in the mid-late 90s said, "we don't want your stupid hockey team!  We're gonna build our own thing!"  they built a farking dirt lot that stood up until about 2-4 years ago (Windsong or Skysong or Sunsong, what the fark) and still isn't doing a whole lot.

congratulations scottsdale, in saying 'no' to 15+ years of game related revenue (restaraunts, parking, sales tax, second level real estate investment), you reaped 15 years of ZERO.
 
2014-05-06 12:05:12 PM  
I don't suppose it matters even a bit that the article is not at all about allowing "B" teams into the top league, does it?
 
2014-05-06 12:05:49 PM  
Actually, that analogy appears to be pretty stupid, subby.  A more accurate analogy would be that this is like allowing NHL teams to maintain affiliates in lower leagues through which they develop their own players for promotion to the top level squad.

Or, in short, exactly how its done in North America.
 
2014-05-06 12:07:05 PM  

rickythepenguin: hockey is pretty fun to watch but i'm not a fan.

whenever phoenix gets bashed as a hockey town, we always kinda wonder how different the franchise's fortune would have been had they built the stadium in Scottsdale at the old Los Arcos (ok, now it is the "Windsong" or whatever, which is still not really doing anything last i checked).....3-5 minutes from the 202, maybe 5 from the 101, maybe, ehhhhhhh, 15 at most from "downtown" phoenix.....glendale is just so farking far.  i know a few east valley hockey fans that won't go to games on "school nights".  had they built it there, you'd have the entire east valley in your ass pocket.

doesn't matter now but, yeah, scottsdale in the mid-late 90s said, "we don't want your stupid hockey team!  We're gonna build our own thing!"  they built a farking dirt lot that stood up until about 2-4 years ago (Windsong or Skysong or Sunsong, what the fark) and still isn't doing a whole lot.

congratulations scottsdale, in saying 'no' to 15+ years of game related revenue (restaraunts, parking, sales tax, second level real estate investment), you reaped 15 years of ZERO.


But at least they get 100% of ZERO.
 
2014-05-06 12:08:40 PM  

Manfred J. Hattan: I don't suppose it matters even a bit that the article is not at all about allowing "B" teams into the top league, does it?


About as much as it matters that's it about the English FA, not a mythical British FA. Or that the Football League, which is a separate power, would also have to agree.

We now return you to your hockey thread in progress...
 
2014-05-06 12:12:09 PM  
If it wasn't for professional sports in Phoenix, the major sports league in the US would have to play a lot more games in Detroit.

We play to serve.
 
2014-05-06 12:12:59 PM  

rickythepenguin: hockey is pretty fun to watch but i'm not a fan.

whenever phoenix gets bashed as a hockey town, we always kinda wonder how different the franchise's fortune would have been had they built the stadium in Scottsdale at the old Los Arcos (ok, now it is the "Windsong" or whatever, which is still not really doing anything last i checked).....3-5 minutes from the 202, maybe 5 from the 101, maybe, ehhhhhhh, 15 at most from "downtown" phoenix.....glendale is just so farking far.  i know a few east valley hockey fans that won't go to games on "school nights".  had they built it there, you'd have the entire east valley in your ass pocket.

doesn't matter now but, yeah, scottsdale in the mid-late 90s said, "we don't want your stupid hockey team!  We're gonna build our own thing!"  they built a farking dirt lot that stood up until about 2-4 years ago (Windsong or Skysong or Sunsong, what the fark) and still isn't doing a whole lot.

congratulations scottsdale, in saying 'no' to 15+ years of game related revenue (restaraunts, parking, sales tax, second level real estate investment), you reaped 15 years of ZERO.


Yeah, but they didn't have to pay for fifteen years of zero.

czetie: Manfred J. Hattan: I don't suppose it matters even a bit that the article is not at all about allowing "B" teams into the top league, does it?

About as much as it matters that's it about the English FA, not a mythical British FA. Or that the Football League, which is a separate power, would also have to agree.

We now return you to your hockey thread in progress...


Yet they still let the Welsh in.
 
2014-05-06 12:15:25 PM  

Resolute: Actually, that analogy appears to be pretty stupid, subby.  A more accurate analogy would be that this is like allowing NHL teams to maintain affiliates in lower leagues through which they develop their own players for promotion to the top level squad.

Or, in short, exactly how its done in North America.


Exactly. The way things currently work in English football, teams say "Well, young prospect, we have you on the payroll, but you're not quite ready to play for us. So, we're still going to pay you, but we'll loan you to Ipswich Town for this season."

This is more like letting the big teams set up their own AA affiliates.
 
2014-05-06 12:17:16 PM  

llortcM_yllort: Yeah, but they didn't have to pay for fifteen years of zero.


the owner at the time was -- as they virtually all do -- that scottsdale foot some of the bill but he as i recall was offering a chunk of his own.

this was well before the teabagger era of "no gummint money for private enterprise", which i support for the record, but scottsdale as i recall had designs on some kind of luxury mall at the site (never happened, and still would have required city money) but also had a contingent that didn't want congestion at the area.  so i guess they got their wish of sorts.

ehhh.  doesn't matter.  i'll watch the Yotes if they make the  playoffs but otherwise the NHL doesn't do it for me.
 
2014-05-06 12:17:40 PM  

llortcM_yllort: czetie: Manfred J. Hattan: I don't suppose it matters even a bit that the article is not at all about allowing "B" teams into the top league, does it?

About as much as it matters that's it about the English FA, not a mythical British FA. Or that the Football League, which is a separate power, would also have to agree.

We now return you to your hockey thread in progress...

Yet they still let the Welsh in.


Well, just Swansea and Cardiff. Because otherwise those two would just have to play each other over and over for the whole season, and if anybody wanted that they could just follow Scottish football.

Seriously though, the relationship between Wales and England has long been more complicated and ambiguous than that with Scotland. A couple of weeks ago my son (aged 9) asked me whether teams from the rest of Britain play in the EPL, and it took me the entire journey to answer properly...

/I think he tuned me out after I got to about the 9th century.
 
2014-05-06 12:21:50 PM  

czetie: A couple of weeks ago my son (aged 9) asked me whether teams from the rest of Britain play in the EPL, and it took me the entire journey to answer properly...



not so much EPL but World Cup.....wasn't there some discussion of somehow getting gareth bales to play for Three Lions?  or, can Welsh players already play for England?  I know Scotland has their own team (though they've done dick at the world cup level, last appearance in what, 2002?) but does Wales?

i just seem to have read something about England somehow trying to get gareth in their kit.

still mad at farking spurs for letting him go.
 
2014-05-06 12:26:16 PM  

rickythepenguin: llortcM_yllort: Yeah, but they didn't have to pay for fifteen years of zero.

the owner at the time was -- as they virtually all do -- that scottsdale foot some of the bill but he as i recall was offering a chunk of his own.

this was well before the teabagger era of "no gummint money for private enterprise", which i support for the record, but scottsdale as i recall had designs on some kind of luxury mall at the site (never happened, and still would have required city money) but also had a contingent that didn't want congestion at the area.  so i guess they got their wish of sorts.

ehhh.  doesn't matter.  i'll watch the Yotes if they make the  playoffs but otherwise the NHL doesn't do it for me.


It didn't matter where they put the Coyotes barn, Valley sports fans are notoriously fickle. They only show up when the local team wins consistently. Other than that little run the Suns went on with Barkley in the 90's and Nash in 2000-something, there hasn't been a whole lot to cheer for.

Otherwise they might go when the Blackhawks, Cubs, Bulls or Bears come to town.
 
2014-05-06 12:28:55 PM  

rickythepenguin: llortcM_yllort:

this was well before the teabagger era of "no gummint money for private enterprise", which i support for the record, but scottsdale as i recall had designs on some kind of luxury mall at the site (never happened, and still would have required city money) but also had a contingent that didn't want congestion at the area.  so i guess they got their wish of sorts.

ehhh.  doesn't matter.  i'll watch the Yotes if they make the  playoffs but otherwise the NHL doesn't do it for me.


Then we, the True Sports Fans of North America hereby relegate you to the Fair-weather Division. You may not observe sports live and will only obtain scores the next day via newspapers or websites. You must also wear the following team hats or shirts on a rotating schedule. Yankees, Cowboys, Steelers, Lakers, Heat, Red Sox (pink), Penguins (Crosby only), or current first place teams (after 1st month of season), and finally, one day a month you may wear a black Tiger Woods Nike hat with corresponding red shirt.
 
2014-05-06 12:29:06 PM  

SlothB77: I know what the Premier League is and I know what relegation is, but I have no idea what anything in the article means.  WTF is Conference?


Okay. The names of different leagues can get pretty confusing further on down a national pyramid. Really, so can the names of top-level leagues, but aside from the biggies like the Premier League, Serie A, MLS, Ligue 1, La Liga, Bundesliga, J-League, generally you can just get by by saying the name of the country and the fact that it's the top level.

In England, it all looks like this:

*The top tier is, as you know, called the Premier League.
*The second tier is the Championship.
*The third tier is called League One.
*The fourth tier is called League Two. These top four tiers are collectively referred to as the Football League, as they're all overseen by a particular governing body that just handles the professional ranks, which extends to here.
*The Conference is the fifth tier. At this level and below, you start seeing semi-pro and amateur teams, and everything on down is called 'non-league'.
*The sixth tier has two different leagues in it, Conference North and Conference South. At this level and below, there are multiple regional leagues on each tier, as clubs are no longer expected to have the financial wherewithal to be able to travel the length of the country at will. Clubs get shuffled between leagues so as to keep them regional.
*The seventh tier- you'll never really hear any news out of this area except when it's FA Cup time- has three leagues, the Northern Premier League, the Isthmian League, and the Southern League.
*The eighth tier has two regional leagues for each of the three leagues on the seventh tier, making for six leagues at this level. (As there are a lot of little sub-leagues of a couple tiers each, with one feeding into the next.)
*The ninth tier has 14 different leagues in it.
*The 10th tier has 17 leagues. This is generally the lowest level at which you'll see clubs enter the FA Cup.
*The 11th tier has 42 leagues.
*The 12th tier has 61 leagues.
*The 13th tier has 68 leagues.
*The 14th tier has 83 leagues.
*The 15th tier has 77 leagues; at this level the league count starts thinning out as sections of the country start running low on players who want to play at a club in the pyramid system.
*The 16th tier has 56 leagues.
*The 17th tier has 48 leagues.
*The 18th tier has 25 leagues.
*The 19th tier has 20 leagues.
*The 20th tier has 9 leagues.
*The 21st tier has 6 leagues, including England's lowest-tiered 'top division', the Bristol and Avon League.
*The 22nd tier has two leagues, Bristol and Avon's second division as well as the lowest division of the Mid-Sussex Football League.
*The 23rd and 24th tiers may or may not contain lower divisions of Bristol and Avon, as there's a little confusion as to how many divisions they actually have.
 
2014-05-06 12:29:27 PM  
As long as they play attractively...
 
2014-05-06 12:35:54 PM  

The Gordie Howe Hat Trick: Otherwise they might go when the Blackhawks, Cubs, Bulls or Bears come to town.


true.  i have a picture in my bukket of a arizona license plate car with the following:

big farking Yankees logo
Lakers logo
49ers logo

yeah, because NY and LA have such a deep respect for each other, and SFO and LA are also big fans of each other.  sports heresy on so many levels.


Decillion: hen we, the True Sports Fans of North America hereby relegate you to the Fair-weather Division. You may not observe sports live and will only obtain scores the next day via newspapers or websites. You must also wear the following team hats or shirts on a rotating schedule. Yankees, Cowboys, Steelers, Lakers, Heat, Red Sox (pink), Penguins (Crosby only), or current first place teams (after 1st month of season), and finally, one day a month you may wear a black Tiger Woods Nike hat with corresponding red shirt.


hey hey hey, wait a minute!  i roasted on many a sunday afternoon in Sun Devil Stadium, cheerign on my 4-12 Redbirds!
 
2014-05-06 12:37:32 PM  
This is what the Spanish league does. It gives young players a way to develop by playing competitive matches since they are playing against other teams fighting for promotion/relegation instead of crappy reserve matches no one cares about. Barcelona and Real Madrid both have 'B' teams in the Spanish second division ('B' teams cannot compete in the same division as the 'A' team). You may have heard of some of the players who came through Barca's 'B' team: Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, Fabregas, Pique, Thiago. They also had a pretty good manager a few years ago by the name of Pep Guardiola before he took over the first team.
 
2014-05-06 12:37:43 PM  

rickythepenguin: czetie: A couple of weeks ago my son (aged 9) asked me whether teams from the rest of Britain play in the EPL, and it took me the entire journey to answer properly...


not so much EPL but World Cup.....wasn't there some discussion of somehow getting gareth bales to play for Three Lions?  or, can Welsh players already play for England?  I know Scotland has their own team (though they've done dick at the world cup level, last appearance in what, 2002?) but does Wales?

i just seem to have read something about England somehow trying to get gareth in their kit.

still mad at farking spurs for letting him go.


Wales has a team. Bale plays for them.
 
2014-05-06 12:39:58 PM  

Princip's Sandwich: Wales has a team. Bale plays for them.


wasn't there some talk of england trying to bend the rules to get him?  maybe mixed parentage?  or maybe i'm mistaken. i just thought there was some "he's languishing for a side that can't een qualify, what if we could get him in our kit" story.
 
2014-05-06 12:41:45 PM  

rickythepenguin: Princip's Sandwich: Wales has a team. Bale plays for them.

wasn't there some talk of england trying to bend the rules to get him?  maybe mixed parentage?  or maybe i'm mistaken. i just thought there was some "he's languishing for a side that can't een qualify, what if we could get him in our kit" story.


From Wikipedia:

Bale was eligible to play for England through his grandmother, but he stated in 2007 that:

"It is an honour to play for Wales...Nobody ever got in touch with me personally from England, only through my agent."
 
2014-05-06 12:41:53 PM  

rickythepenguin: yeah, because NY and LA have such a deep respect for each other, and SFO and LA are also big fans of each other. sports heresy on so many levels.


I tend to get that reaction when trying to explain my Cubs/Packers allegiance. I wear Packers stuff, people think I'm a Brewers fan (I grew up in a split Cubs/Brewers household borne of the pre-interleague era and came down on the Cubs side when they met each other in the NL). I wear Cubs stuff, people think I'm a Bears fan.

And when I wear Aston Villa stuff, people don't even know what the hell is an Aston Villa. Claret and blue are not valid sports colors in these parts. Does Not Compute.
 
2014-05-06 12:42:58 PM  

Gosling: SlothB77: I know what the Premier League is and I know what relegation is, but I have no idea what anything in the article means.  WTF is Conference?

Okay. The names of different leagues can get pretty confusing further on down a national pyramid. Really, so can the names of top-level leagues, but aside from the biggies like the Premier League, Serie A, MLS, Ligue 1, La Liga, Bundesliga, J-League, generally you can just get by by saying the name of the country and the fact that it's the top level.

In England, it all looks like this:

*The top tier is, as you know, called the Premier League.
*The second tier is the Championship.
*The third tier is called League One.
*The fourth tier is called League Two. These top four tiers are collectively referred to as the Football League, as they're all overseen by a particular governing body that just handles the professional ranks, which extends to here.


Minor correction. The Premier League is separate and not under teh auspices of the Football League, which only handles the Championship & Leagues One & Two. The two organisations simply have a reciprocal agreement between them for Cup draws/promotion/relegation etc.
 
2014-05-06 12:44:11 PM  

rickythepenguin: Princip's Sandwich: Wales has a team. Bale plays for them.

wasn't there some talk of england trying to bend the rules to get him?  maybe mixed parentage?  or maybe i'm mistaken. i just thought there was some "he's languishing for a side that can't een qualify, what if we could get him in our kit" story.


Wasn't that to do with Team GBR for the Olympics? As Britain isn't a FIFA nation, and England aren't an Olympic nation there was some weird rule based shenanigans so that the UK could field a soccer team at teh London Olympics.
 
2014-05-06 12:44:29 PM  

rickythepenguin: Princip's Sandwich: Wales has a team. Bale plays for them.

wasn't there some talk of england trying to bend the rules to get him?  maybe mixed parentage?  or maybe i'm mistaken. i just thought there was some "he's languishing for a side that can't een qualify, what if we could get him in our kit" story.


It's not bending the rules. As long as a player has established nationality in a country and is not fully capped (friendlies and youth sides don't count) for another nation, he can play for them. See: Diego Costa
 
2014-05-06 12:46:22 PM  

Princip's Sandwich: "It is an honour to play for Wales...Nobody ever got in touch with me personally from England, only through my agent."


huh. thanks.

Gosling: I tend to get that reaction when trying to explain my Cubs/Packers allegiance.


ha that's funny.  arizona all the way.  i don't identify as a Suns or Yotes fan as neither sport rrrrrrrrrrrreally appeals to me but if the Suns are good, i'll watch them.  being a kid in the pre-Snakes or Cards era, i was raised a Dodger fan as my grandfather was signed to one of their affiliates back in the day.  and, NFL wise, i was a fan of the game, but no one team.  we got tons of Cowboy and Donko games, which explains why both 'chises remain so popular here.  but, once we got the Snakes and Cards, boom, game motherfarking over.  those are my guys.
 
2014-05-06 12:49:28 PM  

czetie: llortcM_yllort: czetie: Manfred J. Hattan: I don't suppose it matters even a bit that the article is not at all about allowing "B" teams into the top league, does it?

About as much as it matters that's it about the English FA, not a mythical British FA. Or that the Football League, which is a separate power, would also have to agree.

We now return you to your hockey thread in progress...

Yet they still let the Welsh in.

Well, just Swansea and Cardiff. Because otherwise those two would just have to play each other over and over for the whole season, and if anybody wanted that they could just follow Scottish football.

Seriously though, the relationship between Wales and England has long been more complicated and ambiguous than that with Scotland. A couple of weeks ago my son (aged 9) asked me whether teams from the rest of Britain play in the EPL, and it took me the entire journey to answer properly...

/I think he tuned me out after I got to about the 9th century.


I lawled at the Scottish football dig.  It's even more funny now because it's actually a one team league....
 
2014-05-06 12:53:01 PM  

rickythepenguin: Princip's Sandwich: "It is an honour to play for Wales...Nobody ever got in touch with me personally from England, only through my agent."

huh. thanks.

Gosling: I tend to get that reaction when trying to explain my Cubs/Packers allegiance.

ha that's funny.  arizona all the way.  i don't identify as a Suns or Yotes fan as neither sport rrrrrrrrrrrreally appeals to me but if the Suns are good, i'll watch them.  being a kid in the pre-Snakes or Cards era, i was raised a Dodger fan as my grandfather was signed to one of their affiliates back in the day.  and, NFL wise, i was a fan of the game, but no one team.  we got tons of Cowboy and Donko games, which explains why both 'chises remain so popular here.  but, once we got the Snakes and Cards, boom, game motherfarking over.  those are my guys.


I tend the same way. Of course, being originally based out of the UK, my US Sports allegiances were:

* Washington Redskins (I thought the jerseys were cool and the first season I remember well was 1991 when they were, y'know, good)
* Orlando Magic (I had relatives in Florida, figured I'd follow whoever won the first Miami/Orlando game I watched)
* Whichever NHL team was on TV
* Florida Marlins (My US-based Aunt got me a T-shirt when they won the Series the first time)

I then moved to the States, VA to be specific and embraced the whole "Follow your local team" ethos that served me so well in the UK sports (What's up, MIGHTY Oxford United?)

So I stuck with the Redskins, and added the Capitals to my teams. Sort of followed the Atlanta Braves because their AAA team was in Richmond, but switched to the Nationals when they arrived.

For some reason, I stuck with Orlando in teh NBA rather than switching to the Wizards. I think it's because I'd bought a Penny Hardaway jersey and didn't want to seem hypocritical by switching to a team who's merch I didn't own.

Oh, and when it comes to MLS, it's a very minor blip on my soccer radar, but I do like DC United.
 
2014-05-06 12:55:41 PM  

Princip's Sandwich: rickythepenguin: Princip's Sandwich: Wales has a team. Bale plays for them.

wasn't there some talk of england trying to bend the rules to get him?  maybe mixed parentage?  or maybe i'm mistaken. i just thought there was some "he's languishing for a side that can't een qualify, what if we could get him in our kit" story.

From Wikipedia:

Bale was eligible to play for England through his grandmother, but he stated in 2007 that:

"It is an honour to play for Wales...Nobody ever got in touch with me personally from England, only through my agent."


England's biggest fail since the Revolutionary War.
 
2014-05-06 12:58:15 PM  

LucklessWonder: Wasn't that to do with Team GBR for the Olympics? As Britain isn't a FIFA nation, and England aren't an Olympic nation there was some weird rule based shenanigans so that the UK could field a soccer team at teh London Olympics.



i think that's probably what i was thinking of, as this was about 2-3 years ago, which would mean the summer olympics.

the olympic rules are always weird though.  like when baseball was a sport, all the other nations had NCAA baseball players on their olympic squads.  like, half of Greece's team was basically UC Irvine or some shiat, who had like, great grandparents that were greek.

"have you ever drank ouzo?  join our olympic team!"
"do you like spanakopita?  welcome to greek baseball!"
"ever had a gyro? opa!  you're on the greek olympic team!"
 
2014-05-06 01:00:10 PM  

Argyle82: Princip's Sandwich: rickythepenguin: Princip's Sandwich: Wales has a team. Bale plays for them.

wasn't there some talk of england trying to bend the rules to get him?  maybe mixed parentage?  or maybe i'm mistaken. i just thought there was some "he's languishing for a side that can't een qualify, what if we could get him in our kit" story.

From Wikipedia:

Bale was eligible to play for England through his grandmother, but he stated in 2007 that:

"It is an honour to play for Wales...Nobody ever got in touch with me personally from England, only through my agent."

England's biggest fail since the Revolutionary War.


I thought that was insisting Gerrard and Lampard could form a solid CM partnership.
 
2014-05-06 01:01:47 PM  

LucklessWonder: I stuck with the Redskins, and added the Capitals to my teams. Sort of followed the Atlanta Braves because their AAA team was in Richmond, but switched to the Nationals when they arrived.


yeah, when i was stationed in VA (pre-Nats) we got all the Os games so the O's are kinda my secret sports
(well, MLB) misstress.  we'd get up to Boddimore a few times a year to catch games at OPACY.  and the snakes didn't even exist so it was all good.  but when we got the snakes, that was it, but...yeah.  when the O's do well that makes me happy.
 
2014-05-06 01:01:55 PM  

LucklessWonder: * Orlando Magic (I had relatives in Florida, figured I'd follow whoever won the first Miami/Orlando game I watched)


I did this same thing for MLS' inaugural game, as the closest team to Wisconsin was the Columbus Crew (Chicago wasn't in the league yet).

I wound up with the San Jose Clash. No, wait, the San Jose Earthquakes. No, wait, the Houston Dynamo, and how am I supposed to watch their games from Wisconsin anyway? Fark it, I'm going to try this again and actually research clubs this time so I know what I'm getting into. Ooh, Villa looks nice.
 
2014-05-06 01:22:19 PM  

Gosling: LucklessWonder: * Orlando Magic (I had relatives in Florida, figured I'd follow whoever won the first Miami/Orlando game I watched)

I did this same thing for MLS' inaugural game, as the closest team to Wisconsin was the Columbus Crew (Chicago wasn't in the league yet).

I wound up with the San Jose Clash. No, wait, the San Jose Earthquakes. No, wait, the Houston Dynamo, and how am I supposed to watch their games from Wisconsin anyway? Fark it, I'm going to try this again and actually research clubs this time so I know what I'm getting into. Ooh, Villa looks nice.


As a former Wisconsinite, I researched MLS clubs when starting to watch soccer. I watched the Sounders 1st MLS game and became a fan instantly. EPL type of crowd. And much like (pick your fave EPL team) when the title chase comes they will crush your dreams with crappy coaching and players choking. I live in Philly now and have gone to a game this season. Its awesome besides the Union sucking out loud. Also if you can, join an American Outlaws chapter nearby.
 
2014-05-06 01:50:27 PM  
The easiest way I can translate this into American sports terms is as follows:

Many of the European soccer teams have what is essentially a JV team -- a second team of players.  "Farm team" isn't quite the right word because they're really part of the same team, wear the same colors, play in the same stadium, etc.  But they're definitely not the main team.  It might be guys who are young & developing, or rehabbing, or whatever.

What this would do is allow teams to have their JV team play at one of the lower levels of the game -- like a minor-league level, per the promotion/relegation system.

Right now, you just have teams whose 'A' team is simply only good enough to be in, say, League Two, like a side I follow, Burton Albion (I'm a Milwaukee Brewers fan, and Burton Albion is also nicknamed the Brewers, so their results occasionally come across the #brewers hashtag).  So you might have Burton Albion playing Chelsea B.

This 'B' team would be treated like any other team in that it could win and get promoted, or lose and get demoted, or whatever.  But, by rule, such a team can't get promoted into the same league as the 'A' team because you don't want a club essentially playing itself in a match that counts.

Where this has an impact is in the "loan" system.  Because clubs don't have these B teams right now, you have the situation outlined upthread where teams will "loan" a player to another, lower-level side if he's not playing much or whatever.  Allow teams to have B teams, however, and that's far less likely to happen.  It really helps the big clubs and it hurts the lower-level ones.
 
2014-05-06 01:58:43 PM  

Pfighting Polish: The easiest way I can translate this into American sports terms is as follows:


Thanks, that's much easier to visualize.
 
2014-05-06 02:03:15 PM  

LucklessWonder: Minor correction. The Premier League is separate and not under teh auspices of the Football League, which only handles the Championship & Leagues One & Two. The two organisations simply have a reciprocal agreement between them for Cup draws/promotion/relegation etc.


Correct, and AFAIK this is different from the other European leagues. It's a historical thing, and the current structure goes back a mere two decades. How did it become this messy? I'm glad you asked.

England has long had two governing bodies: the FA, which is responsible for the game as a whole, the laws of the game (although now it has to defer more to international bodies), youth development, and so on; and the Football League, which was originally just a group of clubs that got together to organize a specific competition. In the early 1990s the League had developed into a hierarchy of four divisions called, sensibly enough, the First through Fourth Division. (In the even more distant past, there was no Fourth Division, and instead regionally-divided Third Divisions North and South, for reasons of cost of travel).

Alongside the League, the FA organized the FA Cup (open to all clubs, big and small) and some other competitions such as the FA Vase for non-league teams, various youth competitions, and the England team. It also represents English interests at UEFA and FIFA. (Later on the League introduced the League Cup, originally as a way to motivate teams to install floodlights. True story.)

Things changed radically about two decades ago when the big teams decided that they didn't like the way the League ran things, that they wanted more control, a bigger share of revenue, better quality of facilities at some of the smaller clubs, and fewer league games. After much wrangling and threats that included a Europe-wide Super League, the Premiership was created under the supervision of the FA, and later renamed itself the Premier League.

At the same time, the Football League renamed the old Division Two to Division One, Three to Two, and Four to Three. And some time after that, Division one became the Championship, Division Two became League One, and Div Three became League Two. (So basically, today's League Two would be Division Four in old money.)

By mutual agreement, as LucklessWonder said, there is still automatic promotion/relegation, as well as collaboration on transfer regulations, mutual enforcement of disciplinary procedures (e.g. a player banned by the FA for three games can't just go out on a loan to a League club for the duration), etc. The FA also has (or had?) stricter rules about ground capacity and facilities; in theory, I believe, it would still be possible for a team to win promotion from the Championship, but be denied by the Premier League if its ground was not up to scratch.
 
2014-05-06 02:31:39 PM  
Jeebus Subby, the Maple Leafs were just sitting there on the tee and you whiffed so hard you faceplanted.
 
2014-05-06 05:28:02 PM  

rickythepenguin: LucklessWonder: Wasn't that to do with Team GBR for the Olympics? As Britain isn't a FIFA nation, and England aren't an Olympic nation there was some weird rule based shenanigans so that the UK could field a soccer team at teh London Olympics.


i think that's probably what i was thinking of, as this was about 2-3 years ago, which would mean the summer olympics.

the olympic rules are always weird though.  like when baseball was a sport, all the other nations had NCAA baseball players on their olympic squads.  like, half of Greece's team was basically UC Irvine or some shiat, who had like, great grandparents that were greek.

"have you ever drank ouzo?  join our olympic team!"
"do you like spanakopita?  welcome to greek baseball!"
"ever had a gyro? opa!  you're on the greek olympic team!"



This is going to be a bit complicated. When international Football was first being created it was under British control and it was set up with England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland having a separate team (with Ireland shortly after splitting into two and any one born on the island of Ireland can choose to play for either team). So since then all the home nations are all FIFA members and field their own teams in international competitions.

For the Olympics the entire UK submits a team that has athletes from England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland under the GB name (when the Olympics started very few people who mattered cared about the difference between the UK and GB). Because the Scottish, Welsh and Northern Ireland FA's fear that if a united UK team plays in the Olympics FIFA will merge them with England and strip them of their national teams.

So when London hosted the Olympics the UK Olympic team wanted to have a team and so the negotiations started. The Scottish FA didn't turn up, the Welsh FA left half way through and the Northern Ireland FA left shortly after leaving just the English FA. After the negotiations collapsed the other Home Nations said they wouldn't object just England being the British team but they wouldn't participate and neither would their players.
So this left it just as England but a number of Welsh players were selected and turned up calling the Welsh FA's bluff. So that's why for one year only Team GB had a football team at the Olympics.
 
2014-05-06 05:40:10 PM  

Pfighting Polish: The easiest way I can translate this into American sports terms is as follows:

Many of the European soccer teams have what is essentially a JV team -- a second team of players.  "Farm team" isn't quite the right word because they're really part of the same team, wear the same colors, play in the same stadium, etc.  But they're definitely not the main team.  It might be guys who are young & developing, or rehabbing, or whatever.

What this would do is allow teams to have their JV team play at one of the lower levels of the game -- like a minor-league level, per the promotion/relegation system.

Right now, you just have teams whose 'A' team is simply only good enough to be in, say, League Two, like a side I follow, Burton Albion (I'm a Milwaukee Brewers fan, and Burton Albion is also nicknamed the Brewers, so their results occasionally come across the #brewers hashtag).  So you might have Burton Albion playing Chelsea B.

This 'B' team would be treated like any other team in that it could win and get promoted, or lose and get demoted, or whatever.  But, by rule, such a team can't get promoted into the same league as the 'A' team because you don't want a club essentially playing itself in a match that counts.

Where this has an impact is in the "loan" system.  Because clubs don't have these B teams right now, you have the situation outlined upthread where teams will "loan" a player to another, lower-level side if he's not playing much or whatever.  Allow teams to have B teams, however, and that's far less likely to happen.  It really helps the big clubs and it hurts the lower-level ones.


Close enough

All of the top flight profesional teams have the main team, the reserve team and the youth team.

The main team is the one that everyone sees on TV and plays in all the competitions. The reserves team is made up of the squad players (those on the teams roster) who are not on the main team and play in their own competition. This is so playerswho are not on the main team due to not enough spaces or recovery from injury can still get competative games and work on their skills and tactics. Players move from the main and reserves team often and no restrictions are in place (other than the UEAFA Financial Fair Play)

Finally the youth team is the development team that works a bit like the High School/College system. In Britian they have to live within a specific range of the club and are 12-18 year olds where the team trains and develope the youngsters to possible be profesional sports people. They still have to complete school and most teams make sure they have some kind of life skills incase they don't make it. Also if these youngsters end up moving to bigger profesional clubs the development club gets some money as compensation.
 
2014-05-06 05:49:46 PM  

czetie: Manfred J. Hattan: I don't suppose it matters even a bit that the article is not at all about allowing "B" teams into the top league, does it?

About as much as it matters that's it about the English FA, not a mythical British FA. Or that the Football League, which is a separate power, would also have to agree.

We now return you to your hockey thread in progress...


czetie: A couple of weeks ago my son (aged 9) asked me whether teams from the rest of Britain play in the EPL, and it took me the entire journey to answer properly...


Um, dude, if you're getting sniffy about "a mythical British FA", you may want to reconsider your abbreviating of "Premier League" to "EPL".

It's the Barclays Premier League. If you want to abbreviate it, BPL would be more accurate.

Or, to put it another way, would you expect to see articles about the ANFL or ANBA?

Other leagues do include the name of the country in the name of the league, such as the SPL (RIP)/SPFL. The top flight of English football does not.

/EPL just really grinds my gears for some reason.
//And fark tagged the weekend "EPL" thread as "Egyptian Premier League", which kind of amused me.
 
2014-05-06 06:04:48 PM  

SigmaAlgebra: This is what the Spanish league does. It gives young players a way to develop by playing competitive matches since they are playing against other teams fighting for promotion/relegation instead of crappy reserve matches no one cares about. Barcelona and Real Madrid both have 'B' teams in the Spanish second division ('B' teams cannot compete in the same division as the 'A' team). You may have heard of some of the players who came through Barca's 'B' team: Messi, Xavi, Iniesta, Busquets, Fabregas, Pique, Thiago. They also had a pretty good manager a few years ago by the name of Pep Guardiola before he took over the first team.


Which, to be fair, the article pointed out.

The coutnerpoint, which I'm not sure I agree with, is that by allowing the Reserve team into the League proper, that will make the big teams less likely to loan out players to small sides.  But that doesn't seem to be happening a whole lot anyways.  For instance, looking at Man City, there are 3 players out on loan...all to other BPL sides.  Southampton have 4 players out, but only two to English sides (L1 and L2).  Norwich have 4 out, in the Championship, L1, and the Conference.  So even if the Reserve teams are allowed into the league structure, they're going to be playing at a much lower level than loans anyways, so I can't see it making a huge difference.
 
2014-05-06 06:15:49 PM  

Flappyhead: Jeebus Subby, the Maple Leafs were just sitting there on the tee and you whiffed so hard you faceplanted.


You keep your hands off my precious Leafs.
/goes to cry in the corner
//maybe next year? Yes, that'll be the one.
 
2014-05-06 06:47:01 PM  

Norfolking Chance: (with Ireland shortly after splitting into two and any one born on the island of Ireland can choose to play for either team).



Huh.  didn't know that.  I imagine it must be rather difficult for a ROI-born player to play for Northern Ireland....who knows.

course every nation has that on some level.  some dude just appeared for the US in a friendly, as I recall, who had spent some time in I think Mexico's youth program.  Or some shiat like that.  They made a small deal out of his first US appearance, like, "omg this means he can never, ever play for Mexico, as this is a cap for the US in international ball...."


and one of my favorite things I like to bust out in World Cup is my "Player Who Strangely Does Not Resemble His Countrymen" player, or PWSDNRHC.  this is the rare Asian guy on an African team, the Brazilian that played for Japan one year, or the bright ginger playing for Ivory Coast.  and I think one year SKOR had a Brazilian dude as well.  just a little thing that cracks me up.
 
2014-05-06 07:13:05 PM  

iron de havilland: Um, dude, if you're getting sniffy about "a mythical British FA", you may want to reconsider your abbreviating of "Premier League" to "EPL".

It's the Barclays Premier League. If you want to abbreviate it, BPL would be more accurate.


In Fark soccer threads, it's routinely abbreviated to EPL. Ocassionally you'll see BPL, but that has been known to cause confusion. And of course depends on the sponsor remaining fixed.

iron de havilland: /EPL just really grinds my gears for some reason.


Then you're probably going to want to stay out of the Fark soccer threads. Sorry.
 
2014-05-06 07:22:03 PM  

rickythepenguin: Huh. didn't know that. I imagine it must be rather difficult for a ROI-born player to play for Northern Ireland....who knows.


There's actually a decent-sized Protestant minority in the Republic, some of whom might prefer to play for NI. But on the whole, people in the Republic are much more laid back about the whole religion thing than in the north (for fairly obvious reasons).

And then there is an even smaller minority of descendants of British landowners who never assimilated in any way, who are sometimes disparagingly referred to as "West Brits" by the Irish.

We should also mention for completeness that not only can a player qualify by birth or by descent (I think one grandparent is enough), there's also now a residency rule whereby if a player has made their "permanent home" in a particular country and hasn't played for another, they can play for that country. That accounts for many of your PWSDNRHCs, and was also how England hoped they might be able to poach Januzaj.

These rules were originally put in place to help smaller countries widen the pool they were able to draw on, while giving players in major countries who can't break into their own country's team a second chance at international football, but it also works the other way -- there was at least one Polish-born player in Germany's last World Cup squad who opted for Germany over Poland.
 
2014-05-06 08:45:23 PM  

czetie: iron de havilland: Um, dude, if you're getting sniffy about "a mythical British FA", you may want to reconsider your abbreviating of "Premier League" to "EPL".

It's the Barclays Premier League. If you want to abbreviate it, BPL would be more accurate.

In Fark soccer threads, it's routinely abbreviated to EPL. Ocassionally you'll see BPL, but that has been known to cause confusion. And of course depends on the sponsor remaining fixed.

iron de havilland: /EPL just really grinds my gears for some reason.

Then you're probably going to want to stay out of the Fark soccer threads. Sorry.


I don't stay out of those threads. I love them.

It's just that I rarely see the games live. I lurk those threads viciously. Heck, I even had a username on the FFPL at the start of the season, thinking I'd keep on top of all you wankers. I didn't keep it up to date, however.

I know all about plucky overachievers and MIGHTY teams. I think Gordon Bennett may even have me in his favourites, but I guess he has a life now as I've not encountered him on Fark for ages.

Look, it's just a minor annoyance. It's not "the EPL". It's the Premier League. Or, the Premier League. I'm in the middle of a ManU/Pool FIFA 14 game at the moment. That game, resplendent with every sponsor the Lord God Himself showers upon those lucky few who had the joy of developing it, calls it the Barclays PL.

I really do poke my head in the threads every match day. Check out prior threads.

And, in closing, I'll re-state my argument:

iron de havilland: Um, dude, if you're getting sniffy about "a mythical British FA", you may want to reconsider your abbreviating of "Premier League" to "EPL".

What's wrong with that? You're trying to be pedantic about "a mythical British FA", while at the same time, calling the Barclays Premier League "the EPL".

Why is one wrong, and not the other?
 
2014-05-06 08:47:17 PM  

iron de havilland: It's the Premier League. Or, the Premier League.


You know what I mean.
 
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