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(Gameranx)   Feminists are now trolling Star Citizen   (gameranx.com) divider line 292
    More: Stupid, star citizen, community manager  
•       •       •

3301 clicks; posted to Geek » on 06 May 2014 at 9:23 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



292 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-05-06 05:48:14 AM  
 "a community for female Star Citizen gamers to gather in and talk about topics that they might not be willing to talk about with their male counterparts and just generally have a safe place to get involved with the Star Citizen community."

*scratches head*

"feminine hygiene and zero gravity"?

"best bras for space combat"?

"child rearing, space sims and you"?
 
2014-05-06 08:20:21 AM  
This thread needs to go green.  The cognitive dissonance will be incredible.
 
2014-05-06 08:25:25 AM  
I'm truly hoping Star Citizen somehow ends up incredibly awesome (you've let me down too many times, world!).

I'm pretty "meh" about whatever she's trying to do.

But yeah, I can totally see those forums getting super weird, super fast, about just about anything.
 
2014-05-06 08:31:37 AM  
Gamera NX?
 
2014-05-06 09:03:49 AM  
What "female issues" could they possibly want to discuss related to the game?
The community promotes rape culture?

I especially like the part where she's all, "Oh noes! I got trolled on the internet! RAPE CULTURE!"
 
2014-05-06 09:19:09 AM  
I'm free to not care, just as everyone else is. Why is this even getting greened? Oh noes, wimmins is talking about us!!
 
2014-05-06 09:25:19 AM  
'...do you ever get that not so fresh feeling.....IN SPACE?!'
 
2014-05-06 09:27:09 AM  
Girl gamers ruin everything.
 
2014-05-06 09:30:17 AM  
Is this the game that's defining feature is how cool it is to climb into the cockpit?
 
2014-05-06 09:31:10 AM  
Apparently this issue was already resolved yesterday.

Community manager says the banning moderator was a bit out of line, says the user should have only gotten probation because they were flagging posts that pointed out her connection to SA in addition to the inflammatory posts. So the user is getting her account unbanned and the moderator is off active duty pending further investigation. Everyone else who was being a sexist dickbag in the thread is apparently remaining banned and the thread is being re-opened, albeit with heavier moderation to avoid such a thing in the future.
 
2014-05-06 09:33:32 AM  

Shakin_Haitian: Is this the game that's defining feature is how cool it is to climb into the cockpit?


No, because there isn't a game yet.
 
2014-05-06 09:37:13 AM  

Codenamechaz: Apparently this issue was already resolved yesterday.

Community manager says the banning moderator was a bit out of line, says the user should have only gotten probation because they were flagging posts that pointed out her connection to SA in addition to the inflammatory posts. So the user is getting her account unbanned and the moderator is off active duty pending further investigation. Everyone else who was being a sexist dickbag in the thread is apparently remaining banned and the thread is being re-opened, albeit with heavier moderation to avoid such a thing in the future.


Yep. Turns out, she was completely exaggerating and partially in the wrong, as were a bunch of douches and a bunch of SA Goons who rushed in to make things worse.

She was not banned for wanting a place for women, that's an outright fabrication.
 
2014-05-06 09:39:41 AM  
the "official statement"


Howdy folks,

I have reviewed the thread in question and all of the associated messaging available to me.

Let me begin by stating what I'm surprised isn't obvious: Cloud Imperium Games is not in the business of preventing women from playing our game. Part of the Star Citizen dream is to build a game that crosses traditional gamer boundaries and includes an experience that everyone can enjoy. Certainly, we are not sitting around in smoky boardrooms dreaming of ways to exclude 50% of the planet in our space adventure.

And then let's go ahead and address the elephant in the room: obviously, a group from the Something Awful forums are using this as an opportunity to troll the forums. As always, this is extremely tedious. The user in question is also part of the Something Awful group, which made the moderator dealing with the issue believe the entire thread was a setup. This would not be the first time SA Goons have created an issue.

However, on review and in spite of the sheer volume of concerned Goons coming out of the woodwork on this, I do not believe the thread was necessarily a setup and that several mistakes were made in terms of moderation. I will now discuss my read on what happened and let you know the actions I am going to take.

On Saturday, a user named Lauresh posted a thread called "Female Gamers Group," about creating a group (separate from an Org, per my read) for women to give them a safe space in the Star Citizen world. The thread goes pretty well for the first several pages, with all parties acting as they should. When one user, Antipater, started posting sexist crap they were properly flagged and probated. As with so many touchy internet threads, people became agitated, emotions flared and so on. The thread was closed as toxic and the original poster was banned.

Let me stress right now: I do not believe anyone on the moderation team banned Lauresh because they are a woman. I am 100% confident that it was because of the 30+ flags complaining about other users in the thread, with profane messages attached: "farking ban this retard," "for the love of god would someone please stop this person from shiatting up the thread already," "mother farking trolling" and so on. Lauresh seems to have flagged not only sexist posts (which should be warned/probated) but also anything complaining that the thread was a setup ('you're a Goon, you just want to fight, etc.')

That said, I believe that our moderator made the following mistakes:

- Lauresh should have been given a 24-hour cooling probation instead of a 7-day probation. Bans here function on a strike system for each infraction: a warning, then a 24-hour probation, then 7-day, then a month and then a review for permaban. While Lauresh had been banned before (and warned several times before that,) their previous ban was overturned and should not have counted as a strike. This probation should have been for abuse of the flag function and nothing else. Her ban should have been better explained at the time.
- The thread should not have been closed. While moderators are empowered to close toxic threads and this one was unquestionably toxic, I will advise against doing so for "important" topics such as this one.

On the greater subject of women in the Star Citizen universe, the answer is that yes we should go out of our way to create a safe space for them. Women online, and especially women in gaming, have it very, very tough in ways that men absolutely do not understand. This isn't an argument for the community to have, it's a fact. Our moderators (and game designers and programmers and everyone else involved in Star Citizen) should do everything possible to create a safe environment, not encourage typical internet knife-fighting in this regard.

Men don't have to deal with this sort of thing, and it's so systemic. For years I was part of a community that simply didn't have women. At first I thought it was because space sims didn't appeal to women... but I came to understand it was because of how immature the average forum user was towards them. It broke my heart hearing from women who loved fighting aliens but who had to pretend to be men in order to even talk to anyone about it, lest their PM inboxes fill up with come-ons and their social networking get invaded with awful dudes.

Let me give you an example from right here at the RSI forums that will maybe resonate: a few days ago our lead moderator's girlfriend posted a 'welcome' thread and he replied welcoming her to the forums. Another user then responded with a picture of the two of them together (as on 'but you guys know each other!') My immediate reaction was that was pretty funny that William got shown up. Later that night, though, I realized: that picture was discovered in the first place because someone saw a female username posting about Star Citizen and had to Google it for pictures. And that sucks.

Obviously I don't know how to fix any of that, but I'd love to start talking about it here instead of pretending it isn't a problem.

In the meantime, I am hereby instructing William, our lead moderator, to do the following:

- Return the 'Female Gamers Group' thread to the forums. The thread should be heavily moderated to remove sexist comments and ban users who make them. Let us try to have a serious conversation here.
- Unban Lauresh with a single strike (24 hours) rather than two (7 days.)
- Remove the moderator who banned her from the active roster pending further review. As I said above, I am confident that Lauresh was not banned because she is a woman, but I will not feel comfortable until we review all of this moderators' recent actions.

And as if it even needed to be said, there is more than enough room for a female-only group in the 'verse. Making connections like that is what our Organizations system is for, and there's absolutely no additional room to argue with that.
 
2014-05-06 09:40:00 AM  

Shakin_Haitian: Is this the game that's defining feature is how cool it is to climb into the cockpit?


The game consists of constantly sending newsletters about how great the game will be someday.
 
2014-05-06 09:41:26 AM  
on the one hand, star citizen is like neckbeard mecca what with asking for rape as a feature and people paying literally thousands of real life dollars for internet spaceships

on the other hand, this is a goon who said "The extremely innocent and honest thread I started..."

Relatively Obscure: I'm truly hoping Star Citizen somehow ends up incredibly awesome (you've let me down too many times, world!).


i can't imagine any way for it to be anything but stunningly mediocre
 
2014-05-06 09:42:42 AM  
I'm not going to get into a gender argument, but I want to know why people would want things in vaporware. The game doesn't exist people! And at $21 million, it's the best example of the problems with crowdsourcing funds. Stop getting your hopes up.
 
2014-05-06 09:44:29 AM  

sprawl15: on the one hand, star citizen is like neckbeard mecca what with asking for rape as a feature and people paying literally thousands of real life dollars for internet spaceships

on the other hand, this is a goon who said "The extremely innocent and honest thread I started..."

Relatively Obscure: I'm truly hoping Star Citizen somehow ends up incredibly awesome (you've let me down too many times, world!).

i can't imagine any way for it to be anything but stunningly mediocre


From what I saw, you walk to the cockpit (Amazing!! Did you see that helmet flip?!?) instead of the game just starting you in it, and then Rogue Squadron.
 
2014-05-06 09:45:32 AM  

llortcM_yllort: Stop getting your hopes up.


Dammit. Thanks to you I just donated another $50. :(
 
2014-05-06 09:45:48 AM  

Shakin_Haitian: Is this the game that's defining feature is how cool it is to climb into the cockpit?


ヽ༼ຈلຈ༽ノ helmet ヽ༼ຈلຈ༽ノ
 
2014-05-06 09:45:50 AM  

llortcM_yllort: I'm not going to get into a gender argument, but I want to know why people would want things in vaporware. The game doesn't exist people! And at $21 million, it's the best example of the problems with crowdsourcing funds. Stop getting your hopes up.


Know how I know you no nothing about the development process for this game?
 
2014-05-06 09:46:29 AM  

LasersHurt: llortcM_yllort: I'm not going to get into a gender argument, but I want to know why people would want things in vaporware. The game doesn't exist people! And at $21 million, it's the best example of the problems with crowdsourcing funds. Stop getting your hopes up.

Know how I know you no nothing about the development process for this game?


UGH "know". "Know" nothing.
 
2014-05-06 09:49:06 AM  

llortcM_yllort: And at $21 million


over 40 million
 
2014-05-06 09:50:10 AM  
Ah, goons stirring the pot again.
 
2014-05-06 09:52:19 AM  
So far approximately 25 of my friends have received bans due to questioning the actions of the moderators and I am still left with a 7 day ban

NO JUSTICE, NO PEACE

I thought it was a permaban, which would have been stupid. This is nothing.
 
2014-05-06 09:55:31 AM  
It's hard to take sides in a nerd fight on a game forum. You're talking about a place that attracts, as a general rule, a group of people who are fanatically devoted to a temporary fiction. By and large, then, you will be dealing primarily with the most maladapted, backwards, navel-gazing nutjobs this side of a Youtube comment. The normal players are too busy playing normally so it's basically just the biggest idiots in the game comparing each other to Hitler over something that doesn't even exist.
 
2014-05-06 09:56:23 AM  
Uh huh. And how does "she" propose to limit all people on a forum to women only?

/trick question, there are no women on the internet
 
2014-05-06 09:57:25 AM  

LasersHurt: LasersHurt: llortcM_yllort: I'm not going to get into a gender argument, but I want to know why people would want things in vaporware. The game doesn't exist people! And at $21 million, it's the best example of the problems with crowdsourcing funds. Stop getting your hopes up.

Know how I know you no nothing about the development process for this game?

UGH "know". "Know" nothing.


Who is Jon Snow?
 
2014-05-06 09:57:33 AM  
I wonder how she would feel if someone started a male-only "safe space".
 
2014-05-06 09:57:36 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: So far approximately 25 of my friends have received bans due to questioning the actions of the moderators and I am still left with a 7 day ban

NO JUSTICE, NO PEACE

I thought it was a permaban, which would have been stupid. This is nothing.


It's worse than you think, she has to sit in a red tent the entire seven days.
 
2014-05-06 10:00:17 AM  

Crudbucket: Shakin_Haitian: Is this the game that's defining feature is how cool it is to climb into the cockpit?

The game consists of constantly sending newsletters about how great the game will be someday.


Meanwhile, Elite Dangerous has had 3 fully playable alpha demos (single-player, multi-player, and docking), with a 4th to come soon, and will be going into beta soon after that.
 
2014-05-06 10:00:42 AM  
Sexual harassment in gaming needs to stop.  Seriously.   It's still harassment even in a gaming space.   The publisher seems to be opening itself up to potential litigation by these actions.  This looks like the forum moderators made decisions without consulting their legal team.
 
2014-05-06 10:01:05 AM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: Girl gamers ruin everything.


Yeah, what if you need to fart?


Can't they just add a kitchen module to the ships?
 
2014-05-06 10:02:28 AM  
Oh look, Goons.

And suddenly anyone who knows anything about online gaming stopped caring.
 
2014-05-06 10:03:25 AM  

Rhypskallion: Sexual harassment in gaming needs to stop.  Seriously.   It's still harassment even in a gaming space.   The publisher seems to be opening itself up to potential litigation by these actions.  This looks like the forum moderators made decisions without consulting their legal team.


I'm offended by your comment. Stop internet-raping me!
 
2014-05-06 10:05:53 AM  
I thought this was going to be something vaguely interesting, but a farking video game forum, for a game that doesn't even exist yet? And from what I understand, it's basically a better dressed, multiplayer version of Escape Velocity, without the easy to make mods.
 
2014-05-06 10:07:28 AM  
A temporary timeout for vaguely-described violations of poorly written, unevenly enforced rules. That sounds familiar.
 
2014-05-06 10:14:03 AM  
The official response by Ben was good. One thing I will say is that the Star Citizen forums are VERY heavily moderated. I got a warning recently for a post which was so mild my grandma could have made it. I was honestly surprised.

That said... It's also kind of nice to have it moderated as it also doesn't devolve into garbage too. Guess there's a fine line.

Looking forward very much to the dogfighting module, which is supposed to be rolled out in the next few weeks!
 
2014-05-06 10:15:02 AM  

Rhypskallion: Sexual harassment in gaming needs to stop.  Seriously.   It's still harassment even in a gaming space.   The publisher seems to be opening itself up to potential litigation by these actions.  This looks like the forum moderators made decisions without consulting their legal team.


Uh huh.  That's great, honey.  Now take your top off.
 
2014-05-06 10:17:11 AM  
Let's assume this wasn't a goon out for lulz, and take it for just a second as an honest, good-faith attempt by a well-meaning feminist gamer.

You want a "safe space" for female gamers?  Freaking make one. Form a guild/clan/WTFever, a website, moderated blog and/or forum, TS server, or any of the other umpteen bajillion options for creating an insulated community on the interwebs.  Asking an online game designer/company for special accommodation when they generally already provide every necessary tool to do it oneself within the context of the actual freaking game is entitled, ignorant, lazy, arrogant, and asinine.
 
2014-05-06 10:17:58 AM  
So far approximately 25 of my friends have received bans due to questioning the actions of the moderators and I am still left with a 7 day ban despite having tried to reach out to CIG through various methods

This is what happens when your forum is moderated by snot-nosed 12 year-olds.
 
2014-05-06 10:20:04 AM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: Girl gamers ruin everything.


Already been done...

affordablehousinginstitute.org
 
2014-05-06 10:20:23 AM  
I saw the thread and she was trolling. The responses were all over the place, but between being the one starting a troll thread and flagging every post that disagreed with her - that is what 7 day posting bans are for.
Besides, what she wanted is a guild for girls with special rules beyond other guilds. Damn goons.
 
2014-05-06 10:21:28 AM  

that bosnian sniper: Let's assume this wasn't a goon out for lulz-


You're honestly prepared to make that assumption? Really? Are you clinically insane?
If this had trollololol-lol-lol written any further over it, trolololo man would be spinning in his grave. I'm kindof embarassed for fark in general that this even got greenlit.
 
2014-05-06 10:21:33 AM  

that bosnian sniper: You want a "safe space" for female gamers? Freaking make one.


that's what the thread (nominally) was about in the op
 
2014-05-06 10:22:30 AM  

abhorrent1: So far approximately 25 of my friends have received bans due to questioning the actions of the moderators and I am still left with a 7 day ban despite having tried to reach out to CIG through various methods

This is what happens when your forum is moderated by snot-nosed 12 year-olds.


Way to read, pal. Way to read. Your informed opinion is a value to us all.
 
2014-05-06 10:23:13 AM  

sprawl15: that bosnian sniper: You want a "safe space" for female gamers? Freaking make one.

that's what the thread (nominally) was about in the op


I greatly dislike the implication that allowing any males in would make it unsafe for females. That's... sexist?
 
2014-05-06 10:26:35 AM  

abhorrent1: So far approximately 25 of my friends have received bans due to questioning the actions of the moderators and I am still left with a 7 day ban despite having tried to reach out to CIG through various methods

This is what happens when your forum is moderated by snot-nosed 12 year-olds.


They sound even fatter and dumber than the Fark mods.
 
2014-05-06 10:27:44 AM  

LasersHurt: I greatly dislike the implication that allowing any males in would make it unsafe for females.


the idea of a minority wanting a 'safe space' where they don't feel like a minority is a pretty common idea. can't say i agree with it, but i at least understand it
 
2014-05-06 10:28:52 AM  
I'm still pretty sure that Star Citizen is some sort of scam.
 
2014-05-06 10:29:10 AM  
fark off, submitter, you farking neck bearded mongoloid
 
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