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(Slate)   Neil deGrasse Tyson assures us that the earth will survive global climate change. People won't, but the earth will be just fine. (Video)   (slate.com ) divider line
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1533 clicks; posted to Geek » on 05 May 2014 at 1:27 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-05 03:23:22 PM  

Lucky LaRue: Lando Lincoln: Because you're not smart enough to understand when they say, "save the planet" that's shorthand for saying, "save the ecosystem that supports human life?"

F*cking scientists and their pathological insistence on precise language to describe shiat.  Bunch of f*cking overachievers.


I think the word you're looking for is "pedantic."
 
2014-05-05 03:25:49 PM  

mr lawson: Monty845: Nature had its chance and blew it.

WE ARE NATURE.
I think it did quite well.


No no no.

You see, when a beaver builds a dam, or bees build a hive, that's NATURAL.

When humans building a building, that's UNNATURAL.

See the distinction?

/I don't, but many people do for some reason.
//News flash: living things change their environments.
 
2014-05-05 03:27:33 PM  

ikanreed: none are extinction events.
We

are an extinction event.  That's kind of why people who study this for a living are having a bit of a fume.
 
2014-05-05 03:33:28 PM  

lake_huron: You see, when a beaver builds a dam, or bees build a hive, that's NATURAL.

When humans building a building, that's UNNATURAL.

See the distinction?

/I don't, but many people do for some reason.
//News flash: living things change their environments.


They do. Some much more than others. Some change their environments so much that their own species dies because of it. Some are smart enough to stop their destructive behavior. Some are not.
 
2014-05-05 03:39:33 PM  

lake_huron: mr lawson: Monty845: Nature had its chance and blew it.

WE ARE NATURE.
I think it did quite well.

No no no.

You see, when a beaver builds a dam, or bees build a hive, that's NATURAL.

When humans building a building, that's UNNATURAL.

See the distinction?

/I don't, but many people do for some reason.
//News flash: living things change their environments.


And when beavers alter their environment too much, large numbers of them die of starvation. See the distinction?
 
2014-05-05 03:41:03 PM  
Our species could be easily extincted by a number of very plausible events. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a fool.
That is all.
 
2014-05-05 03:43:01 PM  

HighZoolander: Confabulat: Meh. We figured out ways to live in the Arctic and the Sahara. Humanity isn't that easy to get rid of.

And what wonderful standards of living that would make for. You can't go ten feet in the arctic without tripping over some Inuit's climate controlled yurt, and oh, what I wouldn't give to be a woman in the Sahara!


because that'll be all that's left, vast desert or ice. And where they meet, boy howdy.
 
2014-05-05 03:44:41 PM  

ikanreed: //Humanity is not doomed, Doctor Tyson. 3C is expensive as hell, 5C is a continuing disaster, 7C is a catastrophe, but none are extinction events.


Depends on how humanity responds to environmental stress.

www.rockpapershotgun.com
 
2014-05-05 03:49:36 PM  

WinoRhino: Doc Daneeka: We could do our worst, and then when we're gone, whatever life remains will adapt to the new environment and eventually fill all available ecological niches.

And that new life will evolve, become intelligent, develop language, and eventually form religion. They will gaze skyward and say, "There has to be a god! How else can you explain where this perfect planet came from? It has the exact amount of arsenic in the water that we need, and the atmosphere holds in the heat to keep us at a constant 150F. It was DESIGNED, I tell you!"


Yeah but I bet bananas won't fit perfectly into whatever hands they might have.
 
2014-05-05 03:53:30 PM  

ikanreed: Yeah, it turns out big balls of mostly molten rock are kinda hard to destroy.

//Humanity is not doomed, Doctor Tyson. 3C is expensive as hell, 5C is a continuing disaster, 7C is a catastrophe, but none are extinction events.


Humanity as a species might survive, but I'd prefer that we survive at or above our current level of technological civilization. I don't particularly want to be sent back to the stone age.
 
2014-05-05 04:11:46 PM  

Lord Dimwit: ikanreed: Yeah, it turns out big balls of mostly molten rock are kinda hard to destroy.

//Humanity is not doomed, Doctor Tyson. 3C is expensive as hell, 5C is a continuing disaster, 7C is a catastrophe, but none are extinction events.

Humanity as a species might survive, but I'd prefer that we survive at or above our current level of technological civilization. I don't particularly want to be sent back to the stone age.


I think I made it clear that I was aware of that.  And also, knowledge doesn't just vanish anymore.  The printing press, hard drives, even computer networks are going to stay.  The problems that will be faced are going to be about food, water, and disease(and the wars they create), more than anything else.
 
2014-05-05 04:32:42 PM  

dittybopper: Actually, it'll be the people who can conform best to the new environment.  That doesn't necessarily mean those in charge.


Those with money / in charge will live reasonably comfortably in huge cavern systems with hydroponic gardens and giant fish tanks, if it comes to that (or move to antarctica). The rest of us ...won't.

Depends how bad it gets, of course.
 
2014-05-05 04:33:13 PM  
You get everything you deserve, and you deserve everything you get.
 
2014-05-05 04:43:12 PM  
Everybody thinks that the end of this means the end of all this.
This is clearly not the case and has never been the case, as illustrated by the entire history of humans.
Collapse is a continuum of never-ending change, not an event that happens on Thursday afternoon on a certain date in the future.

You are living inside the corpse that you fear.
 
2014-05-05 05:00:27 PM  
Came here looking for an easy link to Carlin, left disappointed.

But I'm still generous :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7W33HRc1A6c
 
2014-05-05 05:07:14 PM  

ikanreed: Yeah, it turns out big balls of mostly molten rock are kinda hard to destroy.

//Humanity is not doomed, Doctor Tyson. 3C is expensive as hell, 5C is a continuing disaster, 7C is a catastrophe, but none are extinction events.


You are a treasure. Knowledge like that just pulled out of the aether! Do you do weddings? birthdays? brises?

(Do you have a lot of props for your act or can you do it in a living room-sized space?)
 
2014-05-05 05:12:29 PM  

Lord Dimwit: I don't particularly want to be sent back to the stone age.


Worst case scenario would be probably be early steam age.
Amost everyone understands plows, and enough people understand how to smelt iron, which will always be in plentiful supply.

However, now that the easily accessible fossil fuels are gone, getting past early steam will be a might trickier.
 
2014-05-05 05:16:01 PM  

Best Princess Celestia: Been saying that for years.

We have survived; but we have never asked are we worthy of survival.


It is our very survival that makes us worthy. When we are not worthy we will know.

For a short while at least.
 
Ant
2014-05-05 05:16:16 PM  

Best Princess Celestia: Been saying that for years.

We have survived; but we have never asked are we worthy of survival.


If you survive, you're worthy of survival. By what standard are you measuring worthiness?
 
2014-05-05 05:19:19 PM  

Ant: If you survive, you're worthy of survival.

No, it just means no one's gotten around to judging you.  And most won't, because with the exception of bored busybodies we all got shiat to do.
 
2014-05-05 05:24:58 PM  

TyrantII: As for CO2, there were periods much worse than what we're doing. Our ancestors were also basically proto mice and miraculously lived through it in some ecological niche.


Doesn't that leave the question of what happens when all the methane clathrates under the sea and in what's permafrost at the moment revert to the gaseous state in a short timespan?
 
2014-05-05 05:27:42 PM  

Vlad_the_Inaner: Doesn't that leave the question of what happens when all the methane clathrates under the sea and in what's permafrost at the moment revert to the gaseous state in a short timespan?


img.fark.net
 
2014-05-05 05:37:13 PM  
...and nothing of value was lost.
 
2014-05-05 05:39:56 PM  

NEPAman: No Drama Tyson's lack of faith in Man's indomitable will to survive what life throws at us, evolve to conditions, adapt to changing situations, exploit available resources and conquer whatever challenges face us is...disappoint.


When a sufficient percentage of the population either ridicules the idea that the conditions will change or simply doesn't care, there is little basis for such faith.
 
2014-05-05 05:51:44 PM  

ikanreed: Yeah, it turns out big balls of mostly molten rock are kinda hard to destroy.

//Humanity is not doomed, Doctor Tyson. 3C is expensive as hell, 5C is a continuing disaster, 7C is a catastrophe, but none are extinction events.


At 5C most of the central US will have summer heat that rivals Death Valley and the Sahara.  Forget about growing food in California.

3-5C is a catastrophe for humanity, as water and food resources are going to become very scarce. There will also be mass migrations to the upper latitudes of the norther hemisphere (there's not much land in the higher latitudes south.  Funny enough, winters in those areas will also be harsher as the jet stream oscillation picks up and brings down arctic air much further.

Survival of 9-12 billion people will not be possible.
 
2014-05-05 05:57:20 PM  

lake_huron: mr lawson: Monty845: Nature had its chance and blew it.

WE ARE NATURE.
I think it did quite well.

No no no.

You see, when a beaver builds a dam, or bees build a hive, that's NATURAL.

When humans building a building, that's UNNATURAL.

See the distinction?

/I don't, but many people do for some reason.
//News flash: living things change their environments.


Carlin did that one, too.

"The word "natural" is completely meaningless! Everything is natural! Nature includes everything! It's not just trees and flowers! It's everything! A chemical company's toxic waste is completely natural! It's part of the nature! We're all part of nature! Everything is natural! Dog shiat is natural! It's just not real good food!"
 
2014-05-05 05:59:12 PM  

Stone Meadow: 40+ posts in and nobody's posted this yet? Farkers be slippin'... ;^)

[g-ecx.images-amazon.com image 238x400]


Earth Abides is tough to get started but worth it to stick with it.
 
2014-05-05 06:03:21 PM  

Cubicle Jockey: Worst case scenario would be probably be early steam age.


Amazing. How do you know this?

/My worst case scenarios are much worse.
 
2014-05-05 06:06:49 PM  
There's no place like home
to return to

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-05-05 06:06:50 PM  

ikanreed: Lord Dimwit: ikanreed: Yeah, it turns out big balls of mostly molten rock are kinda hard to destroy.

//Humanity is not doomed, Doctor Tyson. 3C is expensive as hell, 5C is a continuing disaster, 7C is a catastrophe, but none are extinction events.

Humanity as a species might survive, but I'd prefer that we survive at or above our current level of technological civilization. I don't particularly want to be sent back to the stone age.

I think I made it clear that I was aware of that.  And also, knowledge doesn't just vanish anymore.  The printing press, hard drives, even computer networks are going to stay.  The problems that will be faced are going to be about food, water, and disease(and the wars they create), more than anything else.


Ad nauseam: how do you know this?

Hasn't it usually been much worse than the bland predictions? WWI was going to be over by Christmas. (In case you want an example and have forgotten.) Weren't we going to be greeted as liberators in Iraq? (In case you want another example and have forgotten.)
 
2014-05-05 06:09:29 PM  

Confabulat: Meh. We figured out ways to live in the Arctic and the Sahara. Humanity isn't that easy to get rid of.


If you're comfortable with the notion of reducing the population to the levels that can be supported by arctic and saharan conditions, be my guest. I'm guessing that most of those who'll need to "voluntarily" reduce their numbers to the adjusted capacity of the planet might not be willing to go gently into that long night.
 
2014-05-05 06:18:15 PM  
The absolutely stunning thing that hasn't been mentioned is how much cheaper it would be to avoid collapse by actively switching to other energy sources. Talk about the psychosis of fatalism.
 
2014-05-05 06:20:54 PM  

IlGreven: lake_huron: mr lawson: Monty845: Nature had its chance and blew it.

WE ARE NATURE.
I think it did quite well.

No no no.

You see, when a beaver builds a dam, or bees build a hive, that's NATURAL.

When humans building a building, that's UNNATURAL.

See the distinction?

/I don't, but many people do for some reason.
//News flash: living things change their environments.

Carlin did that one, too.

"The word "natural" is completely meaningless! Everything is natural! Nature includes everything! It's not just trees and flowers! It's everything! A chemical company's toxic waste is completely natural! It's part of the nature! We're all part of nature! Everything is natural! Dog shiat is natural! It's just not real good food!"



I miss Carlin.

"If you want to know what a moronic word 'lifestyle' is, all you have to do is realize that, in a technical sense, Attila the Hun had an active, outdoor lifestyle."
 
2014-05-05 06:42:51 PM  

TyrantII: Saiga410: I think he is wrong.  Yes the earth survived a collision with a planetoid the size of mars and yes over the years we have gone through at least one complete snowball phase let alone heavy glaciation and periods of heavy warming, but this time it is different because of the fungability of carbon atoms.... readuponit.

That collision was before life started and would be whats known as a sterilization event.  Life would most likely survive as long as the crust stays relatively intact, but a collision of that size would have enough energy to melt everything to mantel.

As for CO2, there were periods much worse than what we're doing.  Our ancestors were also basically proto mice and miraculously lived through it in some ecological niche.

If we keep this up, humanity will be around.  But I hope you like the Dark Ages: Part II.  Assuming we don't nuke each other over water resources and farmable land first.


http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/uxpil/ive_been_playing_the_sam e_game_of_civilization_ii/
 
2014-05-05 06:46:17 PM  
mother nature is a tough old biatch

civilizations...not so much

/ adapt or die,
 
2014-05-05 07:07:06 PM  
Tyson didn't even mention nuclear power as an option.
 
2014-05-05 07:18:41 PM  

dittybopper: Confabulat: Meh. We figured out ways to live in the Arctic and the Sahara. Humanity isn't that easy to get rid of.

Hell, we've figured out ways to live (at least temporarily), in the cold hard vacuum of space.

We'll manage.


Exactly. We may not have 7 billion of use swarming around, but at this point nothing short of an asteroid the size of Cuba is going to get us off this planet.
 
2014-05-05 07:22:58 PM  

That Guy Jeff: nothing short of an asteroid the size of Cuba is going to get us off this planet.

That's not entirely true either.
 
2014-05-05 07:27:06 PM  

yakmans_dad: When the heat/drought whammy hits the US and Canada, then the US will suddenly find the will  to do the right thing. (That's my prediction at least.)


If the bulk ( pun intended ) of the population can't be kept fat, dumb*, and happy with cheap energy, and more importantly, cheap food, then yeah, we'll be forced to do the "right thing"....


*with mass media
 
2014-05-05 07:50:31 PM  
It's the old, "Meh, I'll be dead before all Hell really breaks loose so why bother?" mindset that's really allowing us to continue on our marry way to significant population control.

Too bad our great grandkids will get to witness the shiat really hitting the fan. Screw them though and their fancy-pants electro-dohickie skateboards and scooters.

/Get off my lawn
 
2014-05-05 07:52:31 PM  
*sigh*

media-curse.cursecdn.com
 
2014-05-05 07:54:16 PM  

AlgaeRancher: mother nature is a tough old biatch

civilizations...not so much

/ adapt or die,


On that note, I think our civilization has peaked.  Socially speaking, there's not much more we can do.

Sure, there's some, gay rights and whatnot, and then getting the rest of the planet to catch up.

But coupled along with that is corrupt government, NSA and TSA, crooked law enforcement, silly obstructionist laws and taxes, increasing distances between economic classes etc.
 Sure, there's a lot of things we can do with technology, but it's getting to the point where the common man can access some of it because of trickle down, and what he can access doesn't solve any of the problems we do have, they only serve as a distraction.


We've had a good run, but I think things can only get worse from here on out.  I could stand to see the slate wiped clean.
 
2014-05-05 09:00:33 PM  

jigger: Tyson didn't even mention nuclear power as an option.


That's because it's a short term stopgap, not a viable long term solution.
 
2014-05-05 09:27:47 PM  
yakmans_dad:

Read a book.
 
2014-05-05 09:46:31 PM  

jso2897: jigger: Tyson didn't even mention nuclear power as an option.

That's because it's a short term stopgap, not a viable long term solution.


I disagree. If we go thorium cycle reactors, it's a middle-long term solution. Thorium is about as abundant as lead, produces far less waste in a reactor, and has very few industrial applications. Just the currently available sources would be able to provide power for a thousands years or more. As a transitional power source and providing a certain amount of baseline load capacity, it'd be a fine piece of the pie.
 
2014-05-05 09:51:22 PM  

lewismarktwo: Stone Meadow: 40+ posts in and nobody's posted this yet? Farkers be slippin'... ;^)

[g-ecx.images-amazon.com image 238x400]

Earth Abides is tough to get started but worth it to stick with it.


Yes, it is a bit tough to get into...but then it just gets better and better. IMO one the best post apocalyptic stories ever written, along with Alas Babylon and One Second After (honorable mention: Lucifer's Hammer) All have solid current science behind their basic premises, and all three are tightly written, topical stories from the 40's, 50's and 2000's.
 
2014-05-05 09:52:07 PM  

ikanreed: 3C is expensive as hell, 5C is a continuing disaster, 7C is a catastrophe, but none are extinction events.


The End Permian was a mostly carbon-driven mass extinction of ~5-8°C, orders of magnitude less rapid than the present. Biggest mass extinction in the geologic record.

The Triassic-Jurassic was another carbon-driven mass extinction. And there have been several other extinction events driven by warming due to volcanic carbon pulses that were notable even though they aren't among the "Big Five".

There were other factors involved, to be sure. But there are other factors at work today as well (habitat destruction and fragmentation, overharvesting, conventional pollutants, etc.) and we've already increased the extinction rate above the background level.
 
2014-05-05 10:01:53 PM  

dittybopper: zamboni: EvilEgg: 

Actually, no.

Just because all of humanity is descended from about 1,000 breeding pairs doesn't mean that there were just that many humans on the Earth at that time (or close to it).  It just means that the descendants of those pairs were more successful than the descendants of the others, and they replaced them.

Just because there is a genetic bottleneck that is detectable today doesn't mean that the actual population of humans living at that time was that low.


So, it's like the Orkin guy came around one day and did service.  1,000 of us survived, and he's due back at the end of the month.
 
2014-05-05 10:06:45 PM  
Hey, look! It's the daily NdGT Fark thread!
 
2014-05-05 10:08:29 PM  

Jon Snow: we've already increased the extinction rate above the background level.


LOL, whut.

/Judas Priest.
//Background extinction rate of AGW trolls, you mean.
///"background extinction rate" wtf.
////Begone, troll.
 
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