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(Washington Post)   "Special troops sent to Odessa to restore order" Ukraine is not weak. Ukraine is strong *pets rabbit*   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 182
    More: Followup, Ukraine, special police, peacekeeping forces, Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov, East Ukraine, police stations, ethnic Russians  
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3838 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 May 2014 at 10:35 AM (16 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-05 09:31:37 AM
Actually, the Ukrainians could probably stop this fairly quickly.  Pick a target being held by the Russia troops*.  Serve an hours notice that they must immediately surrender or face unspecified consequences.

When they don't come out, at the end of the hour, as close to the second as possible, bomb the building flat.   Don't stop until it's a heap of rubble.  They've got a number of Su-25 ground attack aircraft.

Give the other occupiers about 6 to 12 hours to digest what happened.

Then repeat the "offer" to another target.


*Who are we kidding?  They are Russian soldiers.
 
2014-05-05 09:32:00 AM
Somebody dig up Sergei Eisenstein, fast.
 
2014-05-05 09:36:10 AM

dittybopper: Actually, the Ukrainians could probably stop this fairly quickly.  Pick a target being held by the Russia troops*.  Serve an hours notice that they must immediately surrender or face unspecified consequences.

When they don't come out, at the end of the hour, as close to the second as possible, bomb the building flat.   Don't stop until it's a heap of rubble.  They've got a number of Su-25 ground attack aircraft.

Give the other occupiers about 6 to 12 hours to digest what happened.

Then repeat the "offer" to another target.


*Who are we kidding?  They are Russian soldiers.


if they are Russian troops (which while the evidence is heavily on the side of that, we do not have concrete proof or admission from Russia), then that would constitute an act of war and would have Ukraine conquered in a matter of days from the vast amounts of Russian military hardware just chilling on the border.

Couple that with the fact that the Ukrainian soldiers are very very hesitant to fire upon fellow Ukrainians (even if they seem to be Russian)
 
2014-05-05 09:44:54 AM
In some ways Putin overplayed his hand.  He didn't get the violent reaction from Ukrainian forces that allows him to come in as a peace keeper.  But the new phase he has instituted is wonderful tactically.  He can deny culpability and still destabilize with his forces infiltrating/financing the fomenters.  It keeps the US/Europe from being aggressively protective as it keeps the issue as an Ukraine problem not an invasion.  Not that we can do much anyway.  Ultimately it will turn into civil war in the country with Russia coming in to control the Russian side of Ukraine, annex it, and then tell Ukraine West to suck it.
 
2014-05-05 09:47:07 AM

somedude210: if they are Russian troops (which while the evidence is heavily on the side of that, we do not have concrete proof or admission from Russia), then that would constitute an act of war and would have Ukraine conquered in a matter of days from the vast amounts of Russian military hardware just chilling on the border.


Correct me if I'm wrong here, but doesn't having armed foreign troops occupying your cities actually constitute an act of war already?

They're already in a state of war, and no matter what Ukraine does, the Sovie... erm, Russians are going to invade.  Even if they do literally *NOTHING*, within a few months, the Russian Army is going to be occupying those cities.

They really don't have anything to lose, honestly, and perhaps they can goad the Russians into making mistakes that will make it a pariah.  You have to play the long game here, recognizing that in the short term, no matter what, you're screwed.
 
2014-05-05 10:00:51 AM
To reiterate:  There is no way for Ukraine to come out of this ahead in the short term.

But if they make it expensive enough for Russia, long term, they may get that territory back (maybe even Crimea).

I'd be training gobs of extra special forces troops and volunteers to re-infiltrate the area to take potshots and otherwise cause mayhem against the Russian troops/"separatists" in Eastern Ukraine (and Crimea).
 
2014-05-05 10:03:18 AM

img.movieberry.com


Civil defense training videos need to be sent to Ukraine now!!!

 
2014-05-05 10:05:18 AM

dittybopper: Correct me if I'm wrong here, but doesn't having armed foreign troops occupying your cities actually constitute an act of war already?


We still do not actually have proof outside of assumptions of this. Until we have an admission, then it's not an act of war yet. Technically, it wouldn't be an act of war for Ukraine to bomb them, but if that's the case, you still have Ukrainians who were on the fence at this point, probably throwing their weight with the separatists (assuming Ukraine bombed the crap out of Ukrainians)

dittybopper: They're already in a state of war, and no matter what Ukraine does, the Sovie... erm, Russians are going to invade. Even if they do literally *NOTHING*, within a few months, the Russian Army is going to be occupying those cities.


It's not worth it to invade. Putin is chilling on the border to invoke a response from the West. For what, I dunno, but he's using the threat of war to either make the west give a damn about him or to get something from them (or both). Annexing Crimea was probably just a move to secure their Black Sea Fleet's port and it wouldn't have been under threat if Ukraine had stuck with getting closer with Russia instead of ousting Yanakovich and siding with the EU.

dittybopper: They really don't have anything to lose, honestly, and perhaps they can goad the Russians into making mistakes that will make it a pariah. You have to play the long game here, recognizing that in the short term, no matter what, you're screwed.


except they do. If they slaughter what is being seen as true Ukrainian separatists (who may just be getting munitions/equipment from Russia, but are actually Ukrainian) then they will lose the war with the populace as most people side with the separatists. This can't be ended with bombs, at least not cleanly
 
2014-05-05 10:38:01 AM
 
2014-05-05 10:38:08 AM

somedude210: We still do not actually have proof outside of assumptions of this. Until we have an admission, then it's not an act of war yet.


All of the "separatists" that I've seen are wearing sanitized uniforms with a ribbon to qualify for Geneva Convention protection, something separatists are unlikely to do, and they are all young physically fit men (again, unlikely), and they are all uniformly armed and accoutered.

Now, maybe, just *MAYBE*, if there had been a civil war brewing in Eastern Ukraine for years, I could see them having some uniformity.  But this is supposed to be a *SPONTANEOUS* uprising, that just happened a couple months ago.

Of young physically fit males of military age all wearing the same clothing, carrying the same gear, and the same weapons.

Oh, and they all have a little red and yellow ribbon pinned to their uniforms.

All this was coordinated, how?

They're Russian special forces troops.

 http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/21/world/europe/photos-link-masked-m en- in-east-ukraine-to-russia.html

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/30/us-intercepts-moscow-ca ll s-to-spies-kerry-leaked-remarks-russia
 
2014-05-05 10:39:45 AM

somedude210: if they are Russian troops (which while the evidence is heavily on the side of that, we do not have concrete proof or admission from Russia), then that would constitute an act of war and would have Ukraine conquered in a matter of days from the vast amounts of Russian military hardware just chilling on the border.


And here I thought Russia's invasion of Ukraine was already an act of war and Ukraine was simply defending itself from invaders. Thanks for setting me straight.
 
2014-05-05 10:39:53 AM
That's no ordinary rabbit.
 
2014-05-05 10:40:06 AM
Why is that dude trying to kick in a door wearing flimsy-assed tennis shoes? That guy in camouflage is at least wearing boots. Of course, he DOES look a little winded from walking down the hall.
 
2014-05-05 10:40:57 AM
Is this really really important?
Can't we concentrate on something important?
Like the Karcrashians?
 
2014-05-05 10:41:34 AM

mommylife.net

DON'T MAKE ME GET OFF THE BIKE, VLAD

 
2014-05-05 10:43:40 AM

somedude210: dittybopper: Actually, the Ukrainians could probably stop this fairly quickly.  Pick a target being held by the Russia troops*.  Serve an hours notice that they must immediately surrender or face unspecified consequences.

When they don't come out, at the end of the hour, as close to the second as possible, bomb the building flat.   Don't stop until it's a heap of rubble.  They've got a number of Su-25 ground attack aircraft.

Give the other occupiers about 6 to 12 hours to digest what happened.

Then repeat the "offer" to another target.


*Who are we kidding?  They are Russian soldiers.

if they are Russian troops (which while the evidence is heavily on the side of that, we do not have concrete proof or admission from Russia), then that would constitute an act of war and would have Ukraine conquered in a matter of days from the vast amounts of Russian military hardware just chilling on the border.

Couple that with the fact that the Ukrainian soldiers are very very hesitant to fire upon fellow Ukrainians (even if they seem to be Russian)


No, that's not how that works... if Russia is disavowing there are any Russian troops, and Ukraine bombs its own building, being held by whoever the terrorists may be, that's not an act of war any more than taking the building already was an act of war.... but like I said, Russia denies any involvement, for them to say it was an act of war would mean admitting it was their guys who took the building in the first place.
 
2014-05-05 10:43:44 AM
I make love slow like dial-up NetFlix
Hewlett-Packard laptop legendary tool to get chicks
Equipped with DX2-class enhanced 486
Ladies form a line at the left to get this dick
 
2014-05-05 10:44:07 AM
I foresee something involving a lot of steps and a baby carriage...
 
2014-05-05 10:45:46 AM
Have you noticed that since the Ukrainian crisis, the Washington Post and other venues have a lot of really vocal pro-Russia/anti-Ukranian commentators pop up?

I wonder how many of them are paid by Russia to comment and how many are true believers.
 
2014-05-05 10:47:30 AM

dittybopper: somedude210: if they are Russian troops (which while the evidence is heavily on the side of that, we do not have concrete proof or admission from Russia), then that would constitute an act of war and would have Ukraine conquered in a matter of days from the vast amounts of Russian military hardware just chilling on the border.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but doesn't having armed foreign troops occupying your cities actually constitute an act of war already?

They're already in a state of war, and no matter what Ukraine does, the Sovie... erm, Russians are going to invade.  Even if they do literally *NOTHING*, within a few months, the Russian Army is going to be occupying those cities.

They really don't have anything to lose, honestly, and perhaps they can goad the Russians into making mistakes that will make it a pariah.  You have to play the long game here, recognizing that in the short term, no matter what, you're screwed.


Russia is trying to play this as a Kosovo situation; they are constantly accusing the parliament in Kiev of being hijacked by Neo-Nazis who are dedicated to the ethnic cleansing of people of non-Ukrainian origin, so any attempt at total war tactics will make it easier for Russia to respond with overwhelming force, not scare them off.
 
2014-05-05 10:48:35 AM

RexTalionis: Have you noticed that since the Ukrainian crisis, the Washington Post and other venues have a lot of really vocal pro-Russia/anti-Ukranian commentators pop up?

I wonder how many of them are paid by Russia to comment and how many are true believers.


Frankly, I have not.  Not in the WAPO anyway.
 
2014-05-05 10:48:35 AM

dittybopper: somedude210: We still do not actually have proof outside of assumptions of this. Until we have an admission, then it's not an act of war yet.

All of the "separatists" that I've seen are wearing sanitized uniforms with a ribbon to qualify for Geneva Convention protection, something separatists are unlikely to do, and they are all young physically fit men (again, unlikely), and they are all uniformly armed and accoutered.

Now, maybe, just *MAYBE*, if there had been a civil war brewing in Eastern Ukraine for years, I could see them having some uniformity.  But this is supposed to be a *SPONTANEOUS* uprising, that just happened a couple months ago.

Of young physically fit males of military age all wearing the same clothing, carrying the same gear, and the same weapons.

Oh, and they all have a little red and yellow ribbon pinned to their uniforms.

All this was coordinated, how?

They're Russian special forces troops.

 http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/21/world/europe/photos-link-masked-m en- in-east-ukraine-to-russia.html

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/apr/30/us-intercepts-moscow-ca ll s-to-spies-kerry-leaked-remarks-russia


Yep.

The people getting burned to death after throwing molotovs onto rival protesters might be Ukrainian citizens, but they are being organized and led by people who have military training and discipline.
 
2014-05-05 10:48:50 AM

somedude210: if they are Russian troops (which while the evidence is heavily on the side of that, we do not have concrete proof or admission from Russia), then that would constitute an act of war and would have Ukraine conquered in a matter of days from the vast amounts of Russian military hardware just chilling on the border.


If the US Army bombed Albany, would that give Canada casus bellum?

\the answer is "no".
 
2014-05-05 10:48:55 AM

Mikey1969: Why is that dude trying to kick in a door wearing flimsy-assed tennis shoes? That guy in camouflage is at least wearing boots. Of course, he DOES look a little winded from walking down the hall.


Heh, guy I used to know went all the way through Desert Storm in ratty sneakers held together by duct tape.  He had like 17EEE feet; after his last pair of boots crapped out, his unit never did find replacements for him until the shooting was over.
 
2014-05-05 10:50:47 AM

Chris Ween: In some ways Putin overplayed his hand.  He didn't get the violent reaction from Ukrainian forces that allows him to come in as a peace keeper.  But the new phase he has instituted is wonderful tactically.  He can deny culpability and still destabilize with his forces infiltrating/financing the fomenters.  It keeps the US/Europe from being aggressively protective as it keeps the issue as an Ukraine problem not an invasion.  Not that we can do much anyway.  Ultimately it will turn into civil war in the country with Russia coming in to control the Russian side of Ukraine, annex it, and then tell Ukraine West to suck it.

www.quickmeme.com
 
2014-05-05 10:51:48 AM

firefly212: somedude210: dittybopper: Actually, the Ukrainians could probably stop this fairly quickly.  Pick a target being held by the Russia troops*.  Serve an hours notice that they must immediately surrender or face unspecified consequences.

When they don't come out, at the end of the hour, as close to the second as possible, bomb the building flat.   Don't stop until it's a heap of rubble.  They've got a number of Su-25 ground attack aircraft.

Give the other occupiers about 6 to 12 hours to digest what happened.

Then repeat the "offer" to another target.


*Who are we kidding?  They are Russian soldiers.

if they are Russian troops (which while the evidence is heavily on the side of that, we do not have concrete proof or admission from Russia), then that would constitute an act of war and would have Ukraine conquered in a matter of days from the vast amounts of Russian military hardware just chilling on the border.

Couple that with the fact that the Ukrainian soldiers are very very hesitant to fire upon fellow Ukrainians (even if they seem to be Russian)

No, that's not how that works... if Russia is disavowing there are any Russian troops, and Ukraine bombs its own building, being held by whoever the terrorists may be, that's not an act of war any more than taking the building already was an act of war.... but like I said, Russia denies any involvement, for them to say it was an act of war would mean admitting it was their guys who took the building in the first place.


Exactly.  The Ukraine should just stop pussyfooting around and force Putin to put his cards on the table.
 
2014-05-05 10:51:58 AM
What kind of troops?
2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-05-05 10:52:06 AM

dittybopper: Actually, the Ukrainians could probably stop this fairly quickly.  Pick a target being held by the Russia troops*.  Serve an hours notice that they must immediately surrender or face unspecified consequences.

When they don't come out, at the end of the hour, as close to the second as possible, bomb the building flat.   Don't stop until it's a heap of rubble.  They've got a number of Su-25 ground attack aircraft.

Give the other occupiers about 6 to 12 hours to digest what happened.

Then repeat the "offer" to another target.

*Who are we kidding?  They are Russian soldiers.


While tempting, the problems are 1) getting the next groups to believe what happened to the first groups, unless they're actually in line of sight; lots of propaganda floating around already.  More importantly, 2) these are Ukraine's own government buildings; even bombing them flat means you STILL have to send in guys to check the rubble, which takes time.  Plus there's the considerable expense of rebuilding whatever you flatten.

If they prove Russia's behind it (which is likely, imho, but not proven), I suppose they could get some form of reparations, eventually, but that will take ages.
 
2014-05-05 10:52:57 AM

Chris Ween: In some ways Putin overplayed his hand.  He didn't get the violent reaction from Ukrainian forces that allows him to come in as a peace keeper.  But the new phase he has instituted is wonderful tactically.  He can deny culpability and still destabilize with his forces infiltrating/financing the fomenters.  It keeps the US/Europe from being aggressively protective as it keeps the issue as an Ukraine problem not an invasion.  Not that we can do much anyway.  Ultimately it will turn into civil war in the country with Russia coming in to control the Russian side of Ukraine, annex it, and then tell Ukraine West to suck it.


I would argue he Farked up so bad he risks making Dubya look competent. He's now likely to have a civil war on his doorstep, which no nation wants.  And if Ukraine comes out on top, Pottie will likely have NATO as his next-door neighbor. He could try to prevent that by going Full Dubya and send 100,000 troops into Ukraine, which is likely to end worse than when the Soviets went on holiday in Afghanistan. All this while the Russian economy does its best Hiroshima impression.
 
2014-05-05 10:53:39 AM

dittybopper: Actually, the Ukrainians could probably stop this fairly quickly.  Pick a target being held by the Russia troops*.  Serve an hours notice that they must immediately surrender or face unspecified consequences.

When they don't come out, at the end of the hour, as close to the second as possible, bomb the building flat.   Don't stop until it's a heap of rubble.  They've got a number of Su-25 ground attack aircraft.

Give the other occupiers about 6 to 12 hours to digest what happened.

Then repeat the "offer" to another target.


*Who are we kidding?  They are Russian soldiers.


Who was Blackwater then? you kidding yourself if you think primo military gear isn't available from the fall of the USSR when soldiers weren't getting paid but could sell a missile system to feed the fam for a month and your hero Ronnie Ray-gun made all this world possible.
I'm not saying they aren't being supported from Moscow but these guys knew one trade and went into the private business sector when the Rodinia couldn't pay them anymore.
 
2014-05-05 10:55:07 AM

tinfoil-hat maggie: Who was Blackwater then? you kidding yourself if you think primo military gear isn't available from the fall of the USSR when soldiers weren't getting paid but could sell a missile system to feed the fam for a month and your hero Ronnie Ray-gun made all this world possible.
I'm not saying they aren't being supported from Moscow but these guys knew one trade and went into the private business sector when the Rodinia couldn't pay them anymore.


Who do you think was paying Blackwater?

Follow the money. Even if these guys are Mercs, the money leads somewhere.
 
2014-05-05 10:55:32 AM

This text is now purple: somedude210: if they are Russian troops (which while the evidence is heavily on the side of that, we do not have concrete proof or admission from Russia), then that would constitute an act of war and would have Ukraine conquered in a matter of days from the vast amounts of Russian military hardware just chilling on the border.

If the US Army bombed Albany, would that give Canada casus bellum?

\the answer is "no".


If the Canadian press has been spreading claims that Americans are attempting to ethnically cleanse citizens of Canadian origin and the building bombed in Albany was full of Canadian citizens, or at least citizens of Canadian descent, it could raise enough of a stink to take it to the UN as a human rights violation and when the UN laughs in their face they could pull an Iraq invasion and go it alone as a "peace keeping mission."
 
2014-05-05 10:55:34 AM
youngcons.com
 
2014-05-05 10:56:46 AM

PunGent: Mikey1969: Why is that dude trying to kick in a door wearing flimsy-assed tennis shoes? That guy in camouflage is at least wearing boots. Of course, he DOES look a little winded from walking down the hall.

Heh, guy I used to know went all the way through Desert Storm in ratty sneakers held together by duct tape.  He had like 17EEE feet; after his last pair of boots crapped out, his unit never did find replacements for him until the shooting was over.


Holy crap, those shoes need to be bronzed and turned into a memorial, that's crazy. Those are some big honkin' feet, too. They could double as a raft in case of a water landing in a plane.
 
2014-05-05 10:58:34 AM
People! I understand that you all are farking geopolitical experts discussing the finer points of what constitutes the act of war and what doesn't!

But can you at least try to understand that while the presence of Russian troops in East Ukraine is debatable (it is my belief that this article more or less correctly describes the majority of separatists in East Ukraine: http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/04/world/europe/behind-the-masks-in-uk r aine-many-faces-of-rebellion.html  ), Odessa is in South Ukraine, and there are no Russian troops there!

There may be Russia-paid provocateurs and agents, but the majority of anti-Maidan protesters there are locals. Brainwashed, victims of propaganda, call them what you want, but the majority are local Ukrainians. They are Russian-speaking Ukrainians, on both sides, pro-Maidan and anti-Maidan, but they are all Ukrainians.

"Just kill them all" is not a solution here.
 
2014-05-05 10:59:12 AM

Grungehamster: Russia is trying to play this as a Kosovo situation; they are constantly accusing the parliament in Kiev of being hijacked by Neo-Nazis who are dedicated to the ethnic cleansing of people of non-Ukrainian origin, so any attempt at total war tactics will make it easier for Russia to respond with overwhelming force, not scare them off.


Yep, and ask Europe if they want a hot war that will be worse than 40-45..
 
2014-05-05 11:00:18 AM

tinfoil-hat maggie: Yep, and ask Europe if they want a hot war that will be worse than 40-45..


Maggie....

Just, just no, Maggie.
 
2014-05-05 11:00:42 AM

Grungehamster: dittybopper: somedude210: if they are Russian troops (which while the evidence is heavily on the side of that, we do not have concrete proof or admission from Russia), then that would constitute an act of war and would have Ukraine conquered in a matter of days from the vast amounts of Russian military hardware just chilling on the border.

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but doesn't having armed foreign troops occupying your cities actually constitute an act of war already?

They're already in a state of war, and no matter what Ukraine does, the Sovie... erm, Russians are going to invade.  Even if they do literally *NOTHING*, within a few months, the Russian Army is going to be occupying those cities.

They really don't have anything to lose, honestly, and perhaps they can goad the Russians into making mistakes that will make it a pariah.  You have to play the long game here, recognizing that in the short term, no matter what, you're screwed.

Russia is trying to play this as a Kosovo situation; they are constantly accusing the parliament in Kiev of being hijacked by Neo-Nazis who are dedicated to the ethnic cleansing of people of non-Ukrainian origin, so any attempt at total war tactics will make it easier for Russia to respond with overwhelming force, not scare them off.


And the Daily Fail is reporting that the large Jewish population of Odessa is getting real nervous...

I'm not keen on all this talk of Russian infiltration, even if they're is some. It down-plays the feelings of the local ethnic Russians, a miscalculation.
 
2014-05-05 11:00:46 AM
Does Ukraine have a casus belli claim against Russia?
 
2014-05-05 11:01:10 AM

This text is now purple: somedude210: if they are Russian troops (which while the evidence is heavily on the side of that, we do not have concrete proof or admission from Russia), then that would constitute an act of war and would have Ukraine conquered in a matter of days from the vast amounts of Russian military hardware just chilling on the border.

If the US Army bombed Albany, would that give Canada casus bellum?

\the answer is "no".


first part of my statement: "If they are Russian troops" so in your analogy, if the USA bombed Albany because it was overrun by militants who were secretly Canadian special forces with Canadian troops chilling at Niagra Falls, waiting for you to fark up, then it's a viable analogy. What you had is not

/if you're gonna take a shot at me, at least be right about it
 
2014-05-05 11:02:10 AM

Grungehamster: This text is now purple: somedude210: If the US Army bombed Albany, would that give Canada casus bellum?

If the Canadian press has been spreading claims that Americans are attempting to ethnically cleanse citizens of Canadian origin and the building bombed in Albany was full of Canadian citizens, or at least citizens of Canadian descent, [...]


Albany. Albany?!?!?  We already have Hamilton. What the hell could you possibly give us that we'd agree to put up with Albany too?
 
2014-05-05 11:02:10 AM

digistil: And here I thought Russia's invasion of Ukraine was already an act of war and Ukraine was simply defending itself from invaders. Thanks for setting me straight.


again, there has never been any admission that those are Russian soldiers and not separatists. Russia has the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.
 
2014-05-05 11:02:15 AM

Angry Drunk Bureaucrat: Somebody dig up Sergei Eisenstein, fast.


Pretty sure his ghost is writing for RT.
 
2014-05-05 11:02:25 AM

hardinparamedic: tinfoil-hat maggie: Who was Blackwater then? you kidding yourself if you think primo military gear isn't available from the fall of the USSR when soldiers weren't getting paid but could sell a missile system to feed the fam for a month and your hero Ronnie Ray-gun made all this world possible.
I'm not saying they aren't being supported from Moscow but these guys knew one trade and went into the private business sector when the Rodinia couldn't pay them anymore.

Who do you think was paying Blackwater?

Follow the money. Even if these guys are Mercs, the money leads somewhere.


Truthfully I think it's the Organisatziya the Russian mob pushing thing where do you think they vacation and Ukraine signing extradition papers with the west ,heh.
 
2014-05-05 11:02:35 AM

soupafi: Does Ukraine have a casus belli claim against Russia?


Probably. Russia already admitted that they had Russia soldiers occupying Crimea during the period Crimea declared "independence" and federalization into Russia.
 
2014-05-05 11:02:42 AM

hardinparamedic: tinfoil-hat maggie: Yep, and ask Europe if they want a hot war that will be worse than 40-45..

Maggie....

Just, just no, Maggie.


She forgot '39...and Poland.
 
2014-05-05 11:03:25 AM

somedude210: if they are Russian troops (which while the evidence is heavily on the side of that


Really? If the pro-Russian protesters were Russian troops i don't think they would have been slaughtered so easily. Especially considering Russian soldiers now have better gear than US soldiers. But i'm willing to consider any evidence as long as it's not just hearsay CNN is pushing.
 
2014-05-05 11:04:30 AM

tinfoil-hat maggie: Who was Blackwater then? you kidding yourself if you think primo military gear isn't available from the fall of the USSR when soldiers weren't getting paid but could sell a missile system to feed the fam for a month and your hero Ronnie Ray-gun made all this world possible.
I'm not saying they aren't being supported from Moscow but these guys knew one trade and went into the private business sector when the Rodinia couldn't pay them anymore.


So you think they're mercenaries, then, as opposed to spontaneous gathering of concerned citizens like Russia says or Russian soldiers like the west says?

Who, prey tell, is paying for these mercenaries?
 
2014-05-05 11:04:51 AM

hardinparamedic: tinfoil-hat maggie: Yep, and ask Europe if they want a hot war that will be worse than 40-45..

Maggie....

Just, just no, Maggie.


You don't think it would be worse? Or you don't see the guns of August looming and why did the US and Canada each send a squadron of F-16's to Poland?

Poor naive paramedic.
 
2014-05-05 11:06:10 AM

J. Frank Parnell: Especially considering Russian soldiers now have better gear than US soldiers.


Comments like this are what gets you laughed at, Frank.

J. Frank Parnell: Really? If the pro-Russian protesters were Russian troops i don't think they would have been slaughtered so easily.


The Russians have already admitted to using Special Forces Advisors in areas they have annexed over the past few months, and the same soldiers seen in those areas have been photographed in other areas of the Ukraine proper now.
 
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