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(NBC News)   Is antivaxers learning? The answer is no   (nbcnews.com) divider line 156
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9283 clicks; posted to Main » on 05 May 2014 at 8:58 AM (11 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-05 05:33:02 AM
Sadly, it'll be more proof for them that "natural immunity" is best. Sure, your kid now needs an iron lung to breathe and will have other lifelong complications, but at least he didn't have a rare bad reaction to the big bad vaccine. F*ckers.
 
2014-05-05 06:25:43 AM
Name one person who has ever died from any disease.  Oh wait, you can't.  That's why vaccination is Latin for "mind control", and vaccination programs only started under Obama.
 
2014-05-05 08:17:21 AM
24.media.tumblr.com
 
2014-05-05 08:25:15 AM

Sybarite:


I think there should be a rule that when you die, the doctor can't just check the box that says 'other.'
 
2014-05-05 08:31:15 AM
These anti-vaxxers are committing real crimes against humanity.
 
2014-05-05 09:01:22 AM
Evidence is a poor substitute for delusional convictions.  Psych meds might help.
 
2014-05-05 09:03:27 AM
These people are sofa king dumb.
 
2014-05-05 09:04:08 AM

Mike_LowELL: Name one person who has ever died from any disease.  Oh wait, you can't.  That's why vaccination is Latin for "mind control", and vaccination programs only started under Obama.


#WakeupSheeple

I laughed, so you have my thanks.
 
2014-05-05 09:05:33 AM
My travel agent now tells me to get up on all my shots for the next time I travel across the border from Canada, as if I was visiting a third world country that had rampant diseases and poor medical facilities.
 
2014-05-05 09:05:46 AM

Marcus Aurelius: Evidence is a poor substitute for delusional convictions.  Psych meds might help.


*chuckle*
 
2014-05-05 09:06:34 AM
If you get sick you either didn't pray hard enough and/or eat enough kale.
 
2014-05-05 09:07:31 AM
Why does anyone give a flying damn? The more serious illnesses will simply take out the anti-vaxxers. The rest of us will be fine. This really isn't as serious a problem in the US as the media makes it out to be. In every state, a child must have a prescribed set of common vaccinations before he can enroll in a public school. And these are the only ones that are really necessary. The rest of them are not medically necessary and only rake in huge profits for the pharmaceutical companies. They don't make much money off of children, so they have thrown up straw men to frighten helicopter parents into getting their snowflakes unnecessary health care.
 
2014-05-05 09:10:01 AM

JackieRabbit: Why does anyone give a flying damn? The more serious illnesses will simply take out the anti-vaxxers. The rest of us will be fine. This really isn't as serious a problem in the US as the media makes it out to be. In every state, a child must have a prescribed set of common vaccinations before he can enroll in a public school. And these are the only ones that are really necessary. The rest of them are not medically necessary and only rake in huge profits for the pharmaceutical companies. They don't make much money off of children, so they have thrown up straw men to frighten helicopter parents into getting their snowflakes unnecessary health care.


Please tell me you're trolling.
 
2014-05-05 09:10:45 AM
I am all for people having the 'right' to refuse to vaccinate their children.  but since these children are a danger to others, they should all be required to live in a mutually unvaccinated community.

I figure one or two polio outbreaks in said communities hould solve the problem.
 
2014-05-05 09:11:42 AM

themindiswatching: Sadly, it'll be more proof for them that "natural immunity" is best. Sure, your kid now needs an iron lung to breathe and will have other lifelong complications, but at least he didn't have a rare bad reaction to the big bad vaccine. F*ckers.


And even those are barely worth mentioning.  Oh noes, my daughter got a bad skin rash!!  Yes, but she won't get polio.
 
2014-05-05 09:13:05 AM
Interesting that they should use the DTP vaccine as an example. One of my sons went into convulsions shortly after his vaccination, and had to be hospitalized.
 
2014-05-05 09:13:45 AM
Wanna drive on public road, have insurance so you are not a risk to others.

Wanna walk on public space, have vaccination so you are not a risk to others (unless you have a medical condition so you have to rely on herd immunity).

Sometimes, more regulation is not the answer. It's the only answer.
 
2014-05-05 09:14:05 AM

Mike_LowELL: Name one person who has ever died from any disease.  Oh wait, you can't.  That's why vaccination is Latin for "mind control", and vaccination programs only started under Obama.


LuLz
 
2014-05-05 09:14:18 AM

JackieRabbit: The more serious illnesses will simply take out the anti-vaxxers.


First because it is not actually the anti-vaxxers but their kids.

The other is because that is not always the case of just the anti-vaxxers. There are some immuno-compromised individuals that will also die and there is the very small chance that an already immunized person will also die.

Yes I know it makes me a horrible person, but I still have very little sympathy for those that lose their kids due to not being vaccinated.  If it were up to me and a kid died because they were not vaccinated, the parents would get sent to prison.
 
2014-05-05 09:14:48 AM

JackieRabbit: Why does anyone give a flying damn? The more serious illnesses will simply take out the anti-vaxxers. The rest of us will be fine.


Problem is that you need a high enough percentage of inocculated to keep outbreaks from happening.

If a disease remains 'in play' all the time i a lot of people, then the rate of mutation will be high (for some diseases)/will keep the disease alive so that future generations need vaccinations as well.

A high mutation rate means that you need to get vaccinated again after a while because your borrowed 'immunity memory' is outdated.

/We need phone sanitizers
 
2014-05-05 09:15:16 AM

Tillmaster: Interesting that they should use the DTP vaccine as an example. One of my sons went into convulsions shortly after his vaccination, and had to be hospitalized.


Has he ever gotten whooping cough?
 
2014-05-05 09:16:52 AM
The headline gave me a headache.
 
2014-05-05 09:19:06 AM
Pretty soon, we'll be seeing these disease evolve differences with the standing inoculations, then, whoops, everyone in the world is at risk.
 
2014-05-05 09:19:19 AM
My mother got infected with polio when she was a kid. Every one of her siblings that was alive at the time also got it. To this day, nearly 60 years later, she still suffers from irreparable damage to her muscles. And that's a good outcome compared to being permanently paralyzed or killed.

Would you let your kid ride in your car without buckling them up in a car seat? Of course not! Even though that could potentially hurt or kill them in a remote scenario, it's far more likely that they'll get hurt or die from being unbuckled. So why would you leave them unprotected against a deadly, communicable disease?
 
2014-05-05 09:23:03 AM
We need a good pandemic to get rid of the idiots.

/The last pandemic we had was a flu
//It killed millions.
 
2014-05-05 09:23:30 AM

Flappyhead: themindiswatching: Sadly, it'll be more proof for them that "natural immunity" is best. Sure, your kid now needs an iron lung to breathe and will have other lifelong complications, but at least he didn't have a rare bad reaction to the big bad vaccine. F*ckers.

And even those are barely worth mentioning.  Oh noes, my daughter got a bad skin rash!!  Yes, but she won't get polio.


To be fair, there are some rare, very serious complications that can occur from vaccines. (Autism is not one of them) However, what this crowd can't seem to grasp is that  the risk of serious vaccine complications is infinitesimal when compared to the risk of death or serious permanent damage from the diseases they prevent. Like, you could have your child put into group A, where he had a 1 in 10,000 chance of being eaten by a lion, or in room B where he had a 1 in 100 chance of death by stampeding elephant. These people would pick B every time, because LIONS ARE F*CKING SCARY.

I admit as a parent holding my breath each and every time the first born got a vaccine, and watching her like a hawk afterwards. It's scary as hell, because bad things could have come from giving her the vaccines. However, bad things were far more likely to have come from not giving her the vaccines, so she got the vaccines and I worried a lot.
 
2014-05-05 09:26:30 AM
I know a woman who is anti-vax. Her kids are always sick with something. She says that it's because they are all allergic to gluten and gm corn, soy, and wheat. She also thinks that if her chickens eat any of those things that the eggs will contain it and make everyone sick. I pointed out the fact that my mother who has an actual diagnosed, carry an epipen, wheat allergy, eats eggs from my wheat fed chickens just fine and she tried to say "Well she's not really allergic then"

She also home schools because she doesn't think the school's teach what the kids need to know. These kids are so far behind it's not even funny. The books she teaches from are religion based and crap.

So this anti-vax crap is being passed on to another generation.

I'm seriously considering having the doctor titer my blood for active immunizations and make sure I'm up to date on my shots in case I actually meet up with her and her disease vectors in person.
 
2014-05-05 09:26:30 AM

starsrift: My travel agent now tells me to get up on all my shots for the next time I travel across the border from Canada, as if I was visiting a third world country that had rampant diseases and poor medical facilities.


Well, more second world. But just you wait, in 2016 we're going to vote in Walker/Cruz and then it will really get fun. I'm looking forward to indentured servitude.
 
2014-05-05 09:27:02 AM

Public Savant: JackieRabbit: Why does anyone give a flying damn? The more serious illnesses will simply take out the anti-vaxxers. The rest of us will be fine.

Problem is that you need a high enough percentage of inocculated to keep outbreaks from happening.

If a disease remains 'in play' all the time i a lot of people, then the rate of mutation will be high (for some diseases)/will keep the disease alive so that future generations need vaccinations as well.

A high mutation rate means that you need to get vaccinated again after a while because your borrowed 'immunity memory' is outdated.


Exactly.  Smallpox wasn't wiped out because one generation got immunized, it was because they kept immunizing people for decades.
 
2014-05-05 09:27:03 AM
Al-Qaeda wishes they could harm America with biological agents even half as effectively as anti-vaxxers.
 
2014-05-05 09:27:26 AM
After the MMR vaccine, my son got a raised welt on his leg about the size of a half dollar.

Never did get measles, mumps, or rubella though.
 
2014-05-05 09:27:50 AM

Tricky Chicken: I am all for people having the 'right' to refuse to vaccinate their children.  but since these children are a danger to others, they should all be required to live in a mutually unvaccinated community.

I figure one or two polio outbreaks in said communities hould solve the problem.


I vote we give them Kansas.  Wall it off, as per George Carlin.
 
2014-05-05 09:29:55 AM

namegoeshere: Flappyhead: themindiswatching: Sadly, it'll be more proof for them that "natural immunity" is best. Sure, your kid now needs an iron lung to breathe and will have other lifelong complications, but at least he didn't have a rare bad reaction to the big bad vaccine. F*ckers.

And even those are barely worth mentioning.  Oh noes, my daughter got a bad skin rash!!  Yes, but she won't get polio.

To be fair, there are some rare, very serious complications that can occur from vaccines. (Autism is not one of them) However, what this crowd can't seem to grasp is that  the risk of serious vaccine complications is infinitesimal when compared to the risk of death or serious permanent damage from the diseases they prevent. Like, you could have your child put into group A, where he had a 1 in 10,000 chance of being eaten by a lion, or in room B where he had a 1 in 100 chance of death by stampeding elephant. These people would pick B every time, because LIONS ARE F*CKING SCARY.

I admit as a parent holding my breath each and every time the first born got a vaccine, and watching her like a hawk afterwards. It's scary as hell, because bad things could have come from giving her the vaccines. However, bad things were far more likely to have come from not giving her the vaccines, so she got the vaccines and I worried a lot.



You know what else is scary as hell?  Whooping cough or polio.  I thought long and hard about posting some pics of kids with whooping cough, but I wasn't sure if that is banworthy.   But feel free to picture it in your head.  And then picture an epidemic of those kids.  Yours, and those of your friends.
 
2014-05-05 09:31:08 AM
Third World problems
 
2014-05-05 09:33:42 AM

HotWingConspiracy: Tillmaster: Interesting that they should use the DTP vaccine as an example. One of my sons went into convulsions shortly after his vaccination, and had to be hospitalized.

Has he ever gotten whooping cough?


I've had all my DTPs and I've had whooping cough. What of it?
 
2014-05-05 09:33:48 AM

fireclown: You know what else is scary as hell?  Whooping cough or polio.  I thought long and hard about posting some pics of kids with whooping cough, but I wasn't sure if that is banworthy.   But feel free to picture it in your head.  And then picture an epidemic of those kids.  Yours, and those of your friends.


As long as they're not dead, go ahead.

You might also go with posting adults who have whooping cough. The "hundred day cough" is becoming a larger problem in adults in the United States, and while not as deadly in that population, it's one of the major ways that children who are not vaccinated get it.

Adults really need a Tdap booster.
 
2014-05-05 09:35:06 AM

Flappyhead: themindiswatching: Sadly, it'll be more proof for them that "natural immunity" is best. Sure, your kid now needs an iron lung to breathe and will have other lifelong complications, but at least he didn't have a rare bad reaction to the big bad vaccine. F*ckers.

And even those are barely worth mentioning.  Oh noes, my daughter got a bad skin rash!!  Yes, but she won't get polio.


My niece reacted to a shot with brain swelling at age two. Several years and medical help later she's better but does have a few learning issues but is catching up. She also is back on schedule with vaccines after not being able to have them for those years.

It was a really rare reaction. Apparently getting the actual disease could have caused the same reaction. On the plus side, they found a cancerous tumor in her abdomen when they were checking her out at the hospital because of the brain swelling. She is now cancer free as well.
 
2014-05-05 09:40:00 AM
Watching a small child with severe coughing from pertussis is one of the most tragic things I've ever seen.

/ fortunately it was 50 years ago
// unfortunately it's rearing its head again thanks to irresponsible people
 
2014-05-05 09:41:15 AM

This text is now purple: HotWingConspiracy: Tillmaster: Interesting that they should use the DTP vaccine as an example. One of my sons went into convulsions shortly after his vaccination, and had to be hospitalized.

Has he ever gotten whooping cough?

I've had all my DTPs and I've had whooping cough. What of it?


Would you rather have gone without the vaccination?
 
2014-05-05 09:41:19 AM
My uncle had polio when he was a kid.  He still needs a cane to get around and has lung problems from it, so when I had my kids I made sure they got all their vaccinations, even the hepatitis one that was new at the time.  I did catch flack from other mothers about it who were all about the fear of autism and side effects.  To me, I'd rather have my kids with me and possibly have some side effects rather than the guaranteed dead if they caught one of the diseases we've got vaccinations for.
 
2014-05-05 09:43:07 AM
how are the unvaccinated a threat to the vaccinated, if vaccines are the holy grail of disease prevention? Seems most of the time in these recent outbreaks, the people getting sick are people who have already received said vaccinations in the past. So does this mean the vaccinations aren't quite as effective as everyone is being led to believe?
 
2014-05-05 09:44:58 AM

I'm_out_of_popcorn: My niece reacted to a shot with brain swelling at age two. Several years and medical help later she's better but does have a few learning issues but is catching up. She also is back on schedule with vaccines after not being able to have them for those years.

It was a really rare reaction. Apparently getting the actual disease could have caused the same reaction. On the plus side, they found a cancerous tumor in her abdomen when they were checking her out at the hospital because of the brain swelling. She is now cancer free as well.


Was it the MMR vaccine?

I'm sorry to hear about your niece. That reaction is, literally, a one in a million event. I'm glad she's catching up, too. And thank you for still vaccinating.

Huggermugger: Watching a small child with severe coughing from pertussis is one of the most tragic things I've ever seen.


I've seen two die from it in the last five years. A disease which should have been eradicated.

I can't even imagine what it was like pre-1950s, when the disease was seasonal and rampant.
 
2014-05-05 09:45:27 AM

wantingout: how are the unvaccinated a threat to the vaccinated, if vaccines are the holy grail of disease prevention? Seems most of the time in these recent outbreaks, the people getting sick are people who have already received said vaccinations in the past. So does this mean the vaccinations aren't quite as effective as everyone is being led to believe?


Virii and bacteria can mutate into strains the vaccination doesn't provide defense against. Also, many people do not get boosters later in life, leading to compromising t
 
2014-05-05 09:46:04 AM

wantingout: how are the unvaccinated a threat to the vaccinated, if vaccines are the holy grail of disease prevention? Seems most of the time in these recent outbreaks, the people getting sick are people who have already received said vaccinations in the past. So does this mean the vaccinations aren't quite as effective as everyone is being led to believe?


It doesn't make you immune. It makes it statistically more likely your immune system will fight it off before it gets going. Nothing is ever 100%.
 
2014-05-05 09:46:39 AM
Screw you phone.

Anyway, without booster shots you compromise your immune system against new strains.
 
2014-05-05 09:46:52 AM
How is plaggue formed?
 
2014-05-05 09:47:06 AM

fireclown: namegoeshere: Flappyhead: themindiswatching: Sadly, it'll be more proof for them that "natural immunity" is best. Sure, your kid now needs an iron lung to breathe and will have other lifelong complications, but at least he didn't have a rare bad reaction to the big bad vaccine. F*ckers.

And even those are barely worth mentioning.  Oh noes, my daughter got a bad skin rash!!  Yes, but she won't get polio.

To be fair, there are some rare, very serious complications that can occur from vaccines. (Autism is not one of them) However, what this crowd can't seem to grasp is that  the risk of serious vaccine complications is infinitesimal when compared to the risk of death or serious permanent damage from the diseases they prevent. Like, you could have your child put into group A, where he had a 1 in 10,000 chance of being eaten by a lion, or in room B where he had a 1 in 100 chance of death by stampeding elephant. These people would pick B every time, because LIONS ARE F*CKING SCARY.

I admit as a parent holding my breath each and every time the first born got a vaccine, and watching her like a hawk afterwards. It's scary as hell, because bad things could have come from giving her the vaccines. However, bad things were far more likely to have come from not giving her the vaccines, so she got the vaccines and I worried a lot.


You know what else is scary as hell?  Whooping cough or polio.  I thought long and hard about posting some pics of kids with whooping cough, but I wasn't sure if that is banworthy.   But feel free to picture it in your head.  And then picture an epidemic of those kids.  Yours, and those of your friends.


You'll never get the bannination for linking with a warning.

There are some vids of babies with whooping cough which give you the full surround-sound horror of this preventable disease. I'm on my way out, but if someone wanted to link them, with the appropriate banhammer avoiding warning, that'd be good.
 
2014-05-05 09:48:15 AM

Tillmaster: Interesting that they should use the DTP vaccine as an example. One of my sons went into convulsions shortly after his vaccination, and had to be hospitalized.


Was there proof it was linked to the vaccine or are you just assuming that correlation equates to causation? Dpt has been linked to febrile seizures, but only those occurring the same day.

Also, febrile seizures are a result of the fever triggered by the body's immune response, and are not a direct result of the vaccine itself. So, had you skipped the vaccine, your son might have caught diphtheria which in turn would trigger a fever which would be just as likely to cause seizure anyway.
 
2014-05-05 09:48:28 AM

Bugerz: Virii and bacteria can mutate into strains the vaccination doesn't provide defense against. Also, many people do not get boosters later in life, leading to compromising t


The former is not really the issue here. The easiest way to explain it is that vaccines are like armor rather than an invulnerable shield. They "train" your immune system to recognize the causitive agents of a disease, and react to them before the agent has a chance to set up the disease. This is in contrast to active acquired immunity, which requires you to first have the illness - and in the case of vaccine preventable diseases, puts you at a huge risk of death or disability long term.

That armor can be overwhelmed if you are exposed to a high number of causative bacteria or a high viral load, such as from an unvaccinated person, or a high number of unvaccinated people in a population. This is a concept known as herd immunity, and is the reason why vaccines are more effective the more people who have them.
 
2014-05-05 09:49:56 AM

wantingout: how are the unvaccinated a threat to the vaccinated, if vaccines are the holy grail of disease prevention? Seems most of the time in these recent outbreaks, the people getting sick are people who have already received said vaccinations in the past. So does this mean the vaccinations aren't quite as effective as everyone is being led to believe?


Vaccines have never been 100% effective at stopping a given individual from catching a pathogen they are exposed to. If anyone has told you they were, they were either ignorant or malicious. Herd immunity is what stops these communicable diseases, and that requires a critical mass of vaccinated people.
 
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