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(Entertainment Weekly)   Why 'Game of Thrones' producers don't care about your outrage, praise: 'You're having an internal argument with somebody named DragonQueen42'   (insidetv.ew.com) divider line 128
    More: Interesting, Game of Thrones, internet, A Storm of Swords, David Benioff, echo chamber, D.B. Weiss, HBO Hits  
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3635 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 04 May 2014 at 10:17 PM (11 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-04 08:33:50 PM
How does somebody's username matter vis-a-vis the soundness of their argument?
 
2014-05-04 08:54:45 PM
The rape outrage is what happens when a fringe fantasy series gets discovered by soccer moms.

I understand the complaints about Ser Pounce though.
 
2014-05-04 09:03:12 PM

DamnYankees: How does somebody's username matter vis-a-vis the soundness of their argument?


Oh, what a *great* point 'DamnYankees'.
 
2014-05-04 09:09:35 PM

Mentat: DamnYankees: How does somebody's username matter vis-a-vis the soundness of their argument?

Oh, what a *great* point 'DamnYankees'.


static.giantbomb.com
 
2014-05-04 10:15:41 PM

Confabulat: The rape outrage is what happens when a fringe fantasy series gets discovered by soccer moms.

I understand the complaints about Ser Pounce though.


The same soccer moms who masturbate to "Twilight" and "50 Shades of Grey"?
 
2014-05-04 10:23:35 PM
Fanboys are farking losers. Film at 11.
 
2014-05-04 10:27:13 PM
They aren't going to care about shiat as long as they are making money.

And they are making a lot of money.
 
2014-05-04 10:32:09 PM

DamnYankees: How does somebody's username matter vis-a-vis the soundness of their argument?


Do you have any idea how many times I've faced that issue?
 
2014-05-04 10:32:51 PM

Confabulat: The rape outrage is what happens when a fringe fantasy series gets discovered by soccer moms scene of consensual sex in the book is turned into a rape in the TV show for no discernible reason.

I understand the complaints about Ser Pounce though.


I know Farkers will call me a fanboy for this, but there's absolutely no reason to have turned that scene into a rape.  It doesn't add to the story, it doesn't add to the character development, it's doesn't add to the sexiness of the show.

/There's quite a bit of rape in the series, so my objection is not a "OMG RAPE" but more of a "WTF was the point of that?"
 
2014-05-04 10:33:41 PM
What is show about?
 
2014-05-04 10:37:23 PM

Flaumig: Confabulat: The rape outrage is what happens when a fringe fantasy series gets discovered by soccer moms scene of consensual sex in the book is turned into a rape in the TV show for no discernible reason.

I understand the complaints about Ser Pounce though.

I know Farkers will call me a fanboy for this, but there's absolutely no reason to have turned that scene into a rape.  It doesn't add to the story, it doesn't add to the character development, it's doesn't add to the sexiness of the show.

/There's quite a bit of rape in the series, so my objection is not a "OMG RAPE" but more of a "WTF was the point of that?"


And they turned Coldhands killing the mutineers into the Night's Watch killing the mutineers.

They change stuff, get over it.
 
2014-05-04 10:39:13 PM
Given their production schedule and the fact that they can't really change anything during the season, it seems like ignoring the fans is good idea.  This isn't like Lost where you can recognize a mistake like Nikki and Paulo and change course quickly.  For Game of Thrones, once it's done, it's done.  Seems like listening to the rabble is a good way to drive you crazy without actually being productive.
 
2014-05-04 10:39:31 PM

Flaumig: Confabulat: The rape outrage is what happens when a fringe fantasy series gets discovered by soccer moms scene of consensual sex in the book is turned into a rape in the TV show for no discernible reason.

I understand the complaints about Ser Pounce though.

I know Farkers will call me a fanboy for this, but there's absolutely no reason to have turned that scene into a rape.  It doesn't add to the story, it doesn't add to the character development, it's doesn't add to the sexiness of the show.

/There's quite a bit of rape in the series, so my objection is not a "OMG RAPE" but more of a "WTF was the point of that?"


I really don't think it was intended to be rape.
It seems that the material was rewritten a bit too subtlety for the medium. I had to watch it a couple of times and try to think about the transition from book to film.

It could have been transposed better, but it was less a failure of the intent and more a failure of the medium.

On TFA, I wish that the writers of Lost hadn't fallen down the internet rabbit hole. Things may have ended better.
 
2014-05-04 10:39:57 PM

Flaumig: I know Farkers will call me a fanboy for this, but there's absolutely no reason to have turned that scene into a rape


Yeah I agree. It wasn't like that in the books.
It was a complicated scene full of emotion.
I'm surprised the full text of the scene hasn't come out. Or maybe it has, but on tumblr or something.
 
2014-05-04 10:40:47 PM
Because mocking your fans is really the PR move you want.

Confabulat: The rape outrage is what happens when a fringe fantasy series gets discovered by soccer moms.

I understand the complaints about Ser Pounce though.


No, some of us who are hardcore fantasy readers also happen to hate rape.

But then, that's one reason I didn't read/watch GoT.
 
2014-05-04 10:52:49 PM

bborchar: They aren't going to care about shiat as long as they are making money.

And they are making a lot of money.


Christmas is coming; let's see how the books, DVD's/BRays, and action toy figurines do on the shelves!
 
2014-05-04 11:00:58 PM

OtherLittleGuy: The same soccer moms who masturbate to "Twilight" and "50 Shades of Grey"?


Go on...
 
2014-05-04 11:02:29 PM

Lackofname: Because mocking your fans is really the PR move you want.

Confabulat: The rape outrage is what happens when a fringe fantasy series gets discovered by soccer moms.

I understand the complaints about Ser Pounce though.

No, some of us who are hardcore fantasy readers also happen to hate rape.

But then, that's one reason I didn't read/watch GoT.


Hey if you don't like the world full of torture, murder, amorality and rape, don't watch the show featuring all the above. simple as that. It's not for you. Don't ask it to be what you want.
 
2014-05-04 11:03:45 PM

Flaumig: Confabulat: The rape outrage is what happens when a fringe fantasy series gets discovered by soccer moms scene of consensual sex in the book is turned into a rape in the TV show for no discernible reason.

I understand the complaints about Ser Pounce though.

I know Farkers will call me a fanboy for this, but there's absolutely no reason to have turned that scene into a rape.  It doesn't add to the story, it doesn't add to the character development, it's doesn't add to the sexiness of the show.

/There's quite a bit of rape in the series, so my objection is not a "OMG RAPE" but more of a "WTF was the point of that?"


Why not? It wasn't out of character for Jaime. He was pretty frustrated by this point after all. Jaime Lannister is not a character known for patience. There was not stabbing of a pregnant woman in the Red Wedding book, did you get upset about that too? Why or why not?
 
2014-05-04 11:04:54 PM

Flaumig: Confabulat: The rape outrage is what happens when a fringe fantasy series gets discovered by soccer moms scene of consensual sex in the book is turned into a rape in the TV show for no discernible reason.

I understand the complaints about Ser Pounce though.

I know Farkers will call me a fanboy for this, but there's absolutely no reason to have turned that scene into a rape.  It doesn't add to the story, it doesn't add to the character development, it's doesn't add to the sexiness of the show.

/There's quite a bit of rape in the series, so my objection is not a "OMG RAPE" but more of a "WTF was the point of that?"


The thing that gets me is all of the hoopla over that scene, when (I believe the same episode) had a much more graphic, brutal, and blatant rape scene with the mutineers in Craster's keep that hasn't drummed up nearly as much controversy, or perhaps it has and I'm just not reading the right (or wrong) blogs.
 
2014-05-04 11:05:22 PM
Well, I think we can all agree that Jaime and Cersei's scene wasn't legitimate rape because they had three children together and a womans body can shut that whole thing down.

/Todd Akin
 
2014-05-04 11:05:53 PM
I have to laugh at the anger over the apparent "smug book readers".

While there's certainly been a bit of that, I think part of the rage is actually because certain people wanted to position themselves as Important People in the Fandom when GoT was getting popular, only to discover that there were a whole lot of more hardcore fans who preceded them.
 
2014-05-04 11:07:49 PM

TuteTibiImperes: The thing that gets me is all of the hoopla over that scene, when (I believe the same episode) had a much more graphic, brutal, and blatant rape scene with the mutineers in Craster's keep that hasn't drummed up nearly as much controversy, or perhaps it has and I'm just not reading the right (or wrong) blogs.


Well that was the next episode, but see those were BAD GUYS. Jaime Lannister is just a murderous father of three incestuous children who crippled a boy who watched him having sex with his sister and picked a fight with Ned Stark in King's Landing that started this entire mess.

But see, he has a redemption arc (says the people that haven't noticed the point of this series is to subvert normal narrative arcs by now)
 
2014-05-04 11:09:01 PM

spamdog: I have to laugh at the anger over the apparent "smug book readers".


Oh no, those people are very real, and infest every Game of Thrones thread on the internet.
 
2014-05-04 11:11:59 PM

Confabulat: TuteTibiImperes: The thing that gets me is all of the hoopla over that scene, when (I believe the same episode) had a much more graphic, brutal, and blatant rape scene with the mutineers in Craster's keep that hasn't drummed up nearly as much controversy, or perhaps it has and I'm just not reading the right (or wrong) blogs.

Well that was the next episode, but see those were BAD GUYS. Jaime Lannister is just a murderous father of three incestuous children who crippled a boy who watched him having sex with his sister and picked a fight with Ned Stark in King's Landing that started this entire mess.

But see, he has a redemption arc (says the people that haven't noticed the point of this series is to subvert normal narrative arcs by now)


Well, until tonight's bombshell dropped.
 
2014-05-04 11:13:39 PM

DamnYankees: How does somebody's username matter vis-a-vis the soundness of their argument?


I have no clue
 
2014-05-04 11:14:45 PM

BalugaJoe: What is show about?


 60 minute episodes on average, 12 per season, possibly 7 seasons in total (4 produced so far)
 
2014-05-04 11:18:52 PM

Confabulat: Lackofname: Because mocking your fans is really the PR move you want.

Confabulat: The rape outrage is what happens when a fringe fantasy series gets discovered by soccer moms.

I understand the complaints about Ser Pounce though.

No, some of us who are hardcore fantasy readers also happen to hate rape.

But then, that's one reason I didn't read/watch GoT.

Hey if you don't like the world full of torture, murder, amorality and rape, don't watch the show featuring all the above. simple as that. It's not for you. Don't ask it to be what you want.


I... just said I didn't read/watch it because of it. So, um, I'm doing that?
 
2014-05-04 11:20:14 PM

Lackofname: Confabulat: Lackofname: Because mocking your fans is really the PR move you want.

Confabulat: The rape outrage is what happens when a fringe fantasy series gets discovered by soccer moms.

I understand the complaints about Ser Pounce though.

No, some of us who are hardcore fantasy readers also happen to hate rape.

But then, that's one reason I didn't read/watch GoT.

Hey if you don't like the world full of torture, murder, amorality and rape, don't watch the show featuring all the above. simple as that. It's not for you. Don't ask it to be what you want.

I... just said I didn't read/watch it because of it. So, um, I'm doing that?


And good for you. If only so many people had enough sense to discover entertainment that appealed to them instead of complaining that other sorts don't. Congrats.
 
2014-05-04 11:33:25 PM
I'll have you know, DragonQueen42's fanfic is very highly regarded in the LiveJournal community.
 
2014-05-04 11:33:43 PM

Confabulat: Flaumig: Confabulat: The rape outrage is what happens when a fringe fantasy series gets discovered by soccer moms scene of consensual sex in the book is turned into a rape in the TV show for no discernible reason.

I understand the complaints about Ser Pounce though.

I know Farkers will call me a fanboy for this, but there's absolutely no reason to have turned that scene into a rape.  It doesn't add to the story, it doesn't add to the character development, it's doesn't add to the sexiness of the show.

/There's quite a bit of rape in the series, so my objection is not a "OMG RAPE" but more of a "WTF was the point of that?"

Why not? It wasn't out of character for Jaime. He was pretty frustrated by this point after all. Jaime Lannister is not a character known for patience. There was not stabbing of a pregnant woman in the Red Wedding book, did you get upset about that too? Why or why not?


Except that it was out of character for Jaime.  Especially with Cersei.  With his sword hand gone and his oldest son dead, Cersei is one of the few things left that he actually gives a shiat about.  Not to mention that he's never shown a penchant for rape prior to that.  And not only was it out of character for Jaime, it "undid" some of the character development that he'd been going through in his time with Brienne.  It's like one of the writers decided that he was getting too sympathetic and they had to do something to make him less likable again.  It just made no sense to do that with the character.  It would have been like having a scene where Tyrion sticks his hand under Sansa's dress and says, "Hey baby, ever seen a bastard's cock?" Or having a scene where Arya teaches The Hound how to knit.  It was out of character and added nothing to the story.
 
2014-05-04 11:43:24 PM

Lackofname: Because mocking your fans is really the PR move you want.

Confabulat: The rape outrage is what happens when a fringe fantasy series gets discovered by soccer moms.

I understand the complaints about Ser Pounce though.

No, some of us who are hardcore fantasy readers also happen to hate rape.

But then, that's one reason I didn't read/watch GoT.


Well Thank god you're here to let us know.
 
2014-05-04 11:49:13 PM

Flaumig: Except that it was out of character for Jaime.  Especially with Cersei.  With his sword hand gone and his oldest son dead, Cersei is one of the few things left that he actually gives a shiat about.  Not to mention that he's never shown a penchant for rape prior to that.


Really? He's the kind of guy that will murder a child in the middle of sex. You don't think he's ruled by his passions a bit?
 
2014-05-04 11:51:10 PM
People who object to the rape scene just should stop watching this show. This is not 2014 morals being displayed. If you were mad because you were rooting for Jaime's supposed narrative arc, it demonstrates how little you understand this story anyway.

Quit being babies about one violation while lgnoring all the other depravity. It shows just how immature you are on the subject.
 
2014-05-04 11:52:52 PM

Flaumig: And not only was it out of character for Jaime, it "undid" some of the character development that he'd been going through in his time with Brienne


Yeah. It's one of the points of the story to take it in places you don't expect narratives to go. Did you just figure this out now? Or would you prefer the story you wrote in your head?
 
2014-05-04 11:55:31 PM
Anti-Sausage Party League complaining about all the floppy wieners.
 
2014-05-04 11:56:16 PM
Whaa! It interferes with what I thought was Jaime Lannister's obvious narrative arc! This can't be right! George R.R. Martin would NEVER do that!
 
2014-05-04 11:56:49 PM

Lackofname: No, some of us who are hardcore fantasy readers also happen to hate rape.

But then, that's one reason I didn't read/watch GoT.


Why is it that rape and murder also bother me, but I don't get worked up over a fictional story based on books that came out a decade ago (or more)? It's almost as though I can distinguish fantasy from reality. How very odd.
 
2014-05-04 11:57:42 PM

Ishkur: Anti-Sausage Party League complaining about all the floppy wieners.


Maybe I just haven't noticed them, but there haven't really been many penii on the show have there?  Other than Hodor's back in the first (or second?) season, the very tip from the back during the pissing scene with Daenarys, and perhaps one or two in the random brothel scenes, have there been any?
 
2014-05-05 12:01:18 AM

Flaumig: Except that it was out of character for Jaime.  Especially with Cersei.  With his sword hand gone and his oldest son dead, Cersei is one of the few things left that he actually gives a shiat about.  Not to mention that he's never shown a penchant for rape prior to that.  And not only was it out of character for Jaime, it "undid" some of the character development that he'd been going through in his time with Brienne.  It's like one of the writers decided that he was getting too sympathetic and they had to do something to make him less likable again.  It just made no sense to do that with the character.


The answer is that he didn't rape Cersei. She wanted to have sex with him, just maybe not in front of their dead son. But that's an event which a woman having just demanded her twin to murder their brother ought to be able to get passed. And, of course, she did.
 
2014-05-05 12:02:16 AM
So basically they came to the rather accurate conclusion that the kind of community that posts regularly about this kind of thing are psychotic nutjobs who would be unhappy even if you read their farking minds and filmed exactly what they wanted to see. Don't get me wrong, I like to at the very least read discussions on the show and books, and occasionally participate, but holy fark the communities for doing so are full of weapons grade crazy.
 
2014-05-05 12:04:01 AM

Jim from Saint Paul: Lackofname: Because mocking your fans is really the PR move you want.

Confabulat: The rape outrage is what happens when a fringe fantasy series gets discovered by soccer moms.

I understand the complaints about Ser Pounce though.

No, some of us who are hardcore fantasy readers also happen to hate rape.

But then, that's one reason I didn't read/watch GoT.

Well Thank god you're here to let us know.


Well actually I came in to make the comment above the quote, and then pointed out that soccer moms aren't the only people who have problems. But you're welcome all the same.
 
2014-05-05 12:05:02 AM

Confabulat: Flaumig: And not only was it out of character for Jaime, it "undid" some of the character development that he'd been going through in his time with Brienne

Yeah. It's one of the points of the story to take it in places you don't expect narratives to go. Did you just figure this out now? Or would you prefer the story you George RR Martin wrote in your head?


FTFY

Thus far, Jaime's story in the show has been almost identical to his story in the books. There was no point to this change, and it was entirely out of character for both the Jaime of the book and the show.  This was a George Lucas kind of change...pointless, counter to established characterization, and just plain stupid.
 
2014-05-05 12:08:00 AM

DamnYankees: How does somebody's username matter vis-a-vis the soundness of their argument?


It doesnt, as demonstrated by your fine username and the pointless drivel you habitually pour forth ;)
 
2014-05-05 12:09:25 AM
ryant123:  Why is it that rape and murder also bother me, but I don't get worked up over a fictional story based on books that came out a decade ago (or more)? It's almost as though I can distinguish fantasy from reality. How very odd.

Maybe some of us don't fantasize about rape as much as you do.

It's their show, they can do what they want.  However, I can still critique it if I want.  if they want to change consensual sex to rape just to make it more "gritty," I can roll my eyes because it's lame.  It wasn't necessary.  It was less good than the book.

My choices aren't watch or don't watch.  I can watch and find crap to critique, because I have a brain, and there's no point in not using it.  If watching things makes you a moron, that's your business.
 
2014-05-05 12:10:39 AM
Virtual Pariah:

I really don't think it was intended to be rape.
It seems that the material was rewritten a bit too subtlety for the medium.


That is how I read it yes. I think they didnt carry the point well on screen, but regardless, in the end it pales in comparison to the vileness both of these two indulge in.
 
2014-05-05 12:13:34 AM

msqualia: t's their show, they can do what they want.  However, I can still critique it if I want.  if they want to change consensual sex to rape just to make it more "gritty,"


But that's not what they did. You need to pay more attention. There is no more rape in the show than there was in the book.
 
2014-05-05 12:27:48 AM
ryant123: But that's not what they did. You need to pay more attention. There is no more rape in the show than there was in the book.

Nope.  If they intended there not to be rape, then they screwed up when filming that scene.

Also, if I recall correctly, Danny's first encounter with Drogo is explicitly consensual in the books, and he explicitly sought consent.  She was not frightened and crying.  THAT made even less sense, because in the book, Drogo was the first guy who gave a shiat about her from day one.

Let's see, they also have Joffrey murder a hooker, which is at least sexual violence.  Didn't happen in the books.  And yeah, they stabbed a pregnant woman in the belly.  They also switched the Rob chapters to Rob's point of view rather than Catelyn's, and made Catelyn much more shrill.

Whenever writers on that show get the sense it's not gritty enough for the neck beards, they kill a hooker or rape a lady.  It's the neckbeard version of "put a bird on it."  Not "real" enough to sheltered white boys?  Stick a rape in it.  Want an unpredictable twist?  Stick a rape in it.  Want something that neckdbeards will insist is well shot and well plotted and tooootally out of left field?  Stick a rape in it.

George R. R. Martin is guilty of some of this.  Just because it subverts expectations doesn't mean it's always good or well plotted.  The show has gotten rid of some of the subtlety that made up for some of the more ridiculous "I don't know what to do, but it can't be expected, so stick a rape in there and kill a main character."
 
2014-05-05 12:33:21 AM

Flaumig: There was no point to this change, and it was entirely out of character for both the Jaime of the book and the show.  This was a George Lucas kind of change...pointless, counter to established characterization, and just plain stupid.


All sorts of narrative changes have been made, that one could argue have no point.

Why did this one upset you so much? Because you're rooting for Jaime I guess?
 
2014-05-05 12:34:48 AM

msqualia: Also, if I recall correctly, Danny's first encounter with Drogo is explicitly consensual in the books, and he explicitly sought consent. She was not frightened and crying.


....wait. It's been a while since I read the first book, but I'm pretty sure there was crying involved, and there were multiple "No's".
 
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