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(Gizmodo)   Q: What holds approximately 3,700 Blu-rays and fits in your pocket? A: a good old-fashioned cassette tape   (gizmodo.com) divider line 50
    More: Cool, Blu-ray, substrate, square inches, argon, fetishists, ExtremeTech, pockets  
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7636 clicks; posted to Geek » on 04 May 2014 at 5:09 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



50 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-05-04 12:59:27 PM  
I'm still mad about D-VHS.
 
2014-05-04 01:28:27 PM  
We use DATs at work to back up nodes.

/have fun with that
 
2014-05-04 02:54:55 PM  
That's a LOT of porn
 
2014-05-04 04:06:52 PM  

cretinbob: That's a LOT of porn



And it's still not enough porn.
 
2014-05-04 05:09:13 PM  
Real neat technology until rewind breaks and the only thing you have to hit the correct byte offset is a chewed-up Dixon-Ticonderoga.
 
2014-05-04 05:16:41 PM  
Nevertheless you're an idiot if you buy Sony.
 
2014-05-04 05:17:18 PM  
Sony's technique uses a vacuum-forming technique called sputter deposition to create a layer of magnetic crystals by shooting argon ions at a polymer film substrate.

Sounds like Sony forgot about one of its design teams for the last 30 years and now they've found them.
 
2014-05-04 05:17:33 PM  
Damn, I was going to guess my penile meatus.

Thanks for the spoiler subs.
 
2014-05-04 05:18:48 PM  
So they can now fit an entire Bonzo Bonham drum solo on one side?
 
2014-05-04 05:18:49 PM  
Fast forward - Stop -Damn it!
Fast forward - Stop -Damn it!
Fast forward - Stop -Damn it!
Fast forward - Stop -Damn it!
Fast forward - Stop -Damn it!
Fast forward - Stop - Rewind
 
2014-05-04 05:21:15 PM  
static.fjcdn.com

He just became state-of-the-art again! O.O
 
2014-05-04 05:22:42 PM  
It's not an old fashioned cassette tape, it's a newly designed and modern cassette tape.  Why any company would spend money making a backup medium that can be thwarted with a kitchen magnet is beyond me.
 
2014-05-04 05:23:16 PM  
I'm sure only Commodore64 users can use it with turbotape.

/no, Compute! wasn't obscure, just old.
 
2014-05-04 05:41:16 PM  

red5ish: Sounds like Sony forgot about one of its design teams for the last 30 years and now they've found them.

RoyBatty: Nevertheless you're an idiot if you buy Sony.


Indeed.  All that porn data and it's destroyed again when you leave it in a hot car or play with yourself it too much.
wwwdelivery.superstock.com
 
2014-05-04 05:46:30 PM  
I hope it isn't like the cassette storage for these little chaps.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Per_Desk

128K - write once, read erratically.
 
2014-05-04 05:49:07 PM  
Dear Companies,

No more magnetic tapes, EVAR!!

kthxbye
 
2014-05-04 05:50:49 PM  
sputter deposition

cdn5.movieclips.com
 
2014-05-04 06:06:37 PM  
dev/null has infinite capacity and it's where most users information should be backed up.
 
2014-05-04 06:12:17 PM  

Ambivalence: It's not an old fashioned cassette tape, it's a newly designed and modern cassette tape.  Why any company would spend money making a backup medium that can be thwarted with a kitchen magnet is beyond me.


Nowhere is it mentioned that there is even a cassette, but yeah on everything else
 
2014-05-04 06:18:10 PM  
brb, rewinding back to the good part

i.imgur.com
 
2014-05-04 06:23:25 PM  

red5ish: Sony's technique uses a vacuum-forming technique called sputter deposition to create a layer of magnetic crystals by shooting argon ions at a polymer film substrate.

Sounds like Sony forgot about one of its design teams for the last 30 years and now they've found them.


It's a big company1 They can't pay attention to what every person in every unit is doing all the time!
 
2014-05-04 06:43:34 PM  

Ambivalence: It's not an old fashioned cassette tape, it's a newly designed and modern cassette tape.  Why any company would spend money making a backup medium that can be thwarted with a kitchen magnet is beyond me.


Because it's stable and can hold data for years without degrading.
 
2014-05-04 06:47:59 PM  
And it'll still melt if you accidentally leave it on your dashboard.
 
2014-05-04 06:50:56 PM  

Ambivalence: It's not an old fashioned cassette tape, it's a newly designed and modern cassette tape.  Why any company would spend money making a backup medium that can be thwarted with a kitchen magnet is beyond me.


It's not intended for personal or even most small business use.  This is for enterprise level use where backing of terabytes of data on a daily basis is necessary.  The cost per byte of storage is likely considerably less than with hard drives, and when stored in a climate controlled environment these should last for a very long time.

With laws mandating that various types of businesses have to store backup data for a set number of years something like this becomes worthwhile.
 
2014-05-04 06:53:27 PM  

Mr. Eugenides: Ambivalence: It's not an old fashioned cassette tape, it's a newly designed and modern cassette tape.  Why any company would spend money making a backup medium that can be thwarted with a kitchen magnet is beyond me.

Because it's stable and can hold data for years without degrading.


As in many more years than your nifty CD/DVD/Blue-ray will last. Considering the media, I'd have to think that optical media only fails by design.

/...something about the bandwidth of a station wagon full of tapes.
 
2014-05-04 06:54:36 PM  

elvisaintdead: red5ish: Sounds like Sony forgot about one of its design teams for the last 30 years and now they've found them.

RoyBatty: Nevertheless you're an idiot if you buy Sony.

Indeed.  All that porn data and it's destroyed again when you leave it in a hot car or play with yourself it too much.
[wwwdelivery.superstock.com image 233x350]


And if you leave it in your car for six months or more, it eventually becomes "Queens Greatest Hits".
 
2014-05-04 07:14:46 PM  

TuteTibiImperes: Ambivalence: It's not an old fashioned cassette tape, it's a newly designed and modern cassette tape.  Why any company would spend money making a backup medium that can be thwarted with a kitchen magnet is beyond me.


It's not intended for personal or even most small business use.  This is for enterprise level use where backing of terabytes of data on a daily basis is necessary.  The cost per byte of storage is likely considerably less than with hard drives, and when stored in a climate controlled environment these should last for a very long time.

With laws mandating that various types of businesses have to store backup data for a set number of years something like this becomes worthwhile.


This. Or really any use case where you will accumulate lots of data over time that you MUST keep, but the likelihood of ever actually having to access is slim. Its a hell of a lot cheaper than long-term accessible data storage is once you get over a certain scale.
 
2014-05-04 07:19:50 PM  
What I  always think of anytime someone mentions DAT:

img4.wikia.nocookie.net

admintell.napco.com
 
2014-05-04 07:45:39 PM  
It's the Sinclair Microdrive all over again. Well done, Sony.


regmedia.co.uk
 
2014-05-04 07:48:58 PM  

GRCooper: So they can now fit an entire Bonzo Bonham drum solo on one side?


They're gonna give ya every inch of their tape. You want a whole lot of storage space.
 
2014-05-04 07:52:03 PM  
Hey, I use LTO-3 and LTO-4 tape libraries (with robotic arms and bar code readers) to do my backups at work. An LTO-4 cartridge will hold 800 GB uncompressed, 1.6 TB with (nominal) 2:1 compression.

Using SAS (Serial Attached SCSI) interfaces, I get a pretty good backup speed. And to whoever (in TFA comments?) was complaining about keeping track of what's where on the tapes, my backup S/W uses SQL Server 2008 R2 for that little job.

Now that LTO-6 is mainstream, I have hopes of upgrading the LTO-3 library to LTO-5 at a reasonable price (1.6 TB uncompressed per tape, 3.2 TB compressed).

Granted, the author didn't do himself any favors by using the word 'cassette' and a picture of an audio cassette, and then going off on a rant when his commenters started getting silly.

I'm guessing this stuff would probably be, what, LTO-12?
 
2014-05-04 08:02:45 PM  
The old fashion cassette tapes had a fee paid directly to the RIAA. So it was legal to copy albums to a cassette tape, trade them with friends, share, and record off the radio. (but not for commercial purposes)

You'd already paid a fee to the RIAA when you purchased the tape.

http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_copying_levy

Now, here's the rub....would these things be considered a 'cassette tape' and thus subject to the levy (which Sony would have to pay the RIAA) and if they (sony) did pay them; that would mean it would be legal to xfer all RIAA music to things legally.
 
KIA
2014-05-04 08:17:37 PM  
OMG, it's not for old stuff.  It's for 4k television and the HUGE bandwidth needed to run that.  It's also for increasingly huge collections of photos, mp3s, wavs, FLACs, clips, selfies, and video archives that everyone on the planet wants to keep for all time.

But mostly 4k.
 
2014-05-04 08:25:26 PM  
Hmmm. That's almost enough for my porn collection. I'll take three.
 
2014-05-04 08:42:42 PM  

KIA: OMG, it's not for old stuff.  It's for 4k television and the HUGE bandwidth needed to run that.  It's also for increasingly huge collections of photos, mp3s, wavs, FLACs, clips, selfies, and video archives that everyone on the planet wants to keep for all time.

But mostly 4k.


It's not for that either, well, at least not home storage or for things that need to be delivered on the fly from Netflix or the like.

This is just an evolution of this, with an update of tapes like these.

The tapes are designed to archive data for up to 30 years.  Banks, large corporations, ISPs, and other companies that need to store huge amounts of data for long periods of time, but may only need to access that old data to comply with court orders or internal audits can make use of this.

Media companies may have uses as well, something like this could be useful for movie studios and animation firms to store raw copies of films or master copies of releases for archival purposes.

If you need to store tons of data economically in a situation where speed and ease of access aren't important, tape is a good way to go.
 
2014-05-04 08:44:01 PM  

optikeye: The old fashion cassette tapes had a fee paid directly to the RIAA. So it was legal to copy albums to a cassette tape, trade them with friends, share, and record off the radio. (but not for commercial purposes)

You'd already paid a fee to the RIAA when you purchased the tape.

http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_copying_levy

Now, here's the rub....would these things be considered a 'cassette tape' and thus subject to the levy (which Sony would have to pay the RIAA) and if they (sony) did pay them; that would mean it would be legal to xfer all RIAA music to things legally.


No, it won't be the same form factor.  Got to make it as proprietary as possible, you know.
 
2014-05-04 09:05:14 PM  

cretinbob: That's a LOT of porn


There's never enough porn, so it's all cool.
 
2014-05-04 09:18:22 PM  

Duane Dibbley: It's the Sinclair Microdrive all over again. Well done, Sony.


[regmedia.co.uk image 570x327]


Who's a good racist.
 
2014-05-04 10:34:14 PM  
Tape wasn't phased out as the primary storage medium because of low information density, it was phase out because of terrible retrieval speed, rapid wear on retrieval, and vulnerability to physical failure.

In applications where you just record shiat once and then don't have to play it back more than once or twice if that, people still use magnetic tape all the time.  Server backups are on tape drives on a regular basis, for instance.
 
2014-05-04 11:33:46 PM  

Nicholas D. Wolfwood: Hey, I use LTO-3 and LTO-4 tape libraries (with robotic arms and bar code readers) to do my backups at work. An LTO-4 cartridge will hold 800 GB uncompressed, 1.6 TB with (nominal) 2:1 compression.

Using SAS (Serial Attached SCSI) interfaces, I get a pretty good backup speed. And to whoever (in TFA comments?) was complaining about keeping track of what's where on the tapes, my backup S/W uses SQL Server 2008 R2 for that little job.

Now that LTO-6 is mainstream, I have hopes of upgrading the LTO-3 library to LTO-5 at a reasonable price (1.6 TB uncompressed per tape, 3.2 TB compressed).

Granted, the author didn't do himself any favors by using the word 'cassette' and a picture of an audio cassette, and then going off on a rant when his commenters started getting silly.

I'm guessing this stuff would probably be, what, LTO-12?


Maybe, but that all depends on whether LTO tech can position the tape precisely enough and quickly enough to take advantage of data stored at this density. I don't actually know. Of course, this being Sony, they'll reinvent the wheel instead of using the open standard. The question is whether they can do this with LTO's reliability, or if they're going to come up with DLT "reliability". Knowing Sony, I think I can imagine the answer. :)

(For those unfamiliar, DLT drives are famous for the amazing quantity and effectiveness of their tape-eating failure modes, some of which would put the subject audio cassettes to shame....)
 
2014-05-04 11:58:32 PM  
See, instead of using a conventional polymer substrate, you spray the argon ions onto fused silica wafers, then sandwich them with filters so you can stack a few hundred or thousand of such strips, each only a centimeter or less wide and only about ten centimeters long, making a crystal rod holding petabytes of data which can be read with polarized laser light. Which would make an isolinear storage device a la Star Trek: Deep Space Nine.
 
2014-05-04 11:58:54 PM  
pdieten: Nicholas D. Wolfwood: Hey, I use LTO-3 and LTO-4 tape libraries (with robotic arms and bar code readers) to do my backups at work. An LTO-4 cartridge will hold 800 GB uncompressed, 1.6 TB with (nominal) 2:1 compression.

Using SAS (Serial Attached SCSI) interfaces, I get a pretty good backup speed. And to whoever (in TFA comments?) was complaining about keeping track of what's where on the tapes, my backup S/W uses SQL Server 2008 R2 for that little job.

Now that LTO-6 is mainstream, I have hopes of upgrading the LTO-3 library to LTO-5 at a reasonable price (1.6 TB uncompressed per tape, 3.2 TB compressed).

Granted, the author didn't do himself any favors by using the word 'cassette' and a picture of an audio cassette, and then going off on a rant when his commenters started getting silly.

I'm guessing this stuff would probably be, what, LTO-12?

Maybe, but that all depends on whether LTO tech can position the tape precisely enough and quickly enough to take advantage of data stored at this density. I don't actually know. Of course, this being Sony, they'll reinvent the wheel instead of using the open standard. The question is whether they can do this with LTO's reliability, or if they're going to come up with DLT "reliability". Knowing Sony, I think I can imagine the answer. :)

(For those unfamiliar, DLT drives are famous for the amazing quantity and effectiveness of their tape-eating failure modes, some of which would put the subject audio cassettes to shame....)


Yep.  The LTO-12 comment was intended to be facetious.

We had DLT systems, too, before we got the LTOs up and running.  I have some strong memories of trying to restore some DLTs (from another business unit) so the auditors could try and find some Travel Authorization Requests that were being disputed by the client.  The company had $1,000,000 on the line.  The first tape (of a dataset of seven cartridges) got munged up in the drive, and I had to disassemble it and rewind the tape by hand, without letting it get wrinkled.

It took me about six miracles in a row, but I successfully recovered all the data.  They never told me if they found what they were looking for.

img.fark.net
 
2014-05-05 01:45:05 AM  

Ambivalence: It's not an old fashioned cassette tape, it's a newly designed and modern cassette tape.  Why any company would spend money making a backup medium that can be thwarted with a kitchen magnet is beyond me.


Simple: Magnetic tape's intersection of low cost per unit data storage and archival reliability put every other storage medium to shame. Tapes have a proven record of successfully storing data for decades - unlike floppies, RW optical disks and hard drives, which have a proven record of failing to do so, or SSDs and blu-ray which have no track record as yet (and would therefore be trusted by no archivist).

If you want some numbers: An 800GB LTO4 data tape (two generations antiquated...) costs roughly $20. Such a tape fabricated with this new technology is unlikely to still cost only $20, but at the new density would be capable of recording over 2 million GB, meaning the LHC's entire dataset could fit on 20 of them.
 
2014-05-05 01:54:28 AM  
I have an LTO-2 drive at home. Yeah it's old but 200 GB per tape is more than enough for me and less than $10 a tape can't be beat for something that will last 30 years or more. All my most valuable and irreplaceable data is backed up on them. Family photos, home movies, all my important records and work stuff, etc.

I wouldn't touch a Sony format with a barge pole however. LTO Ultrium is an open standard, something Sony has never liked. I predict this will fail just like all their other proprietary crap formats.
 
2014-05-05 02:43:15 AM  

spawn73: Duane Dibbley: It's the Sinclair Microdrive all over again. Well done, Sony.


[regmedia.co.uk image 570x327]

Who's a good racist.


Eh? What on Earth is that all about?
 
2014-05-05 04:48:16 AM  
http://steve-lovelace.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/mcdlt-b ox.jpg

(mobile, sorry)
 
2014-05-05 08:02:38 AM  
If they can jam that much data in one inch of tape. why not just sell movies on a one inch tab. Stick the tab in a reader, and bam! you got 3 blurays.

the tab wouldn't even need to move, the readhead could. (like a cd rom or bluray does now).

the only drawback would be that it would be magnetically sensitive.
 
2014-05-05 08:12:42 AM  

Ambivalence: It's not an old fashioned cassette tape, it's a newly designed and modern cassette tape.  Why any company would spend money making a backup medium that can be thwarted with a kitchen magnet is beyond me.


Because they are relatively cheap, very reliable, and store massive amounts of data?  Think that could be it?

You know every company of any size uses them in massive numbers, right?  You did know that, right?
 
2014-05-05 09:22:29 AM  

Vertdang: If they can jam that much data in one inch of tape. why not just sell movies on a one inch tab. Stick the tab in a reader, and bam! you got 3 blurays.

the tab wouldn't even need to move, the readhead could. (like a cd rom or bluray does now).

the only drawback would be that it would be magnetically sensitive.


That would be freaking cool...  You could embed this stuff into credit card style cards...  That would be cool...
 
2014-05-05 03:00:12 PM  

red5ish: Sounds like Sony forgot about one of its design teams for the last 30 years and now they've found them.


I'd like to think that door was just locked for the last 4 decades. Legend has it that when they opened it, they found 3 engineers that looked like castaways, a newborn, and an aging spanish woman that used to be part of the custodial staff...
 
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