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(The Daily Beast)   Number of careers available to Christians "is quickly shrinking as homosexuals seek opportunities to wreck the personal business and career of any Christian who declines to support the gay lifestyle." This is bad news for florists   (thedailybeast.com) divider line 353
    More: Obvious, LGBT culture, prospective parliamentary candidate, gays and lesbians, Pippa Middleton  
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10026 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 May 2014 at 1:40 PM (19 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-04 05:59:30 PM
I never grasped how wishing to get married was "NO MORALS!" anyway.

I guess these Christians prefer "living in sin" as they call it, since they actually don't want people to get married.
 
2014-05-04 05:59:58 PM

phenn: noitsnot: phenn: Showed up on my FB feed:

...

We are not unlike. I'm a middle-aged white woman of Irish lineage. Let's say - for a moment - you're a 25-year old black male.

Your DNA and mine are nearly identical. We are both two-legged critters whose survival actually depends on fostering empathy.

...

That is survival. And - I think - that is what species do.

At least, I hope so.  :-)



I'll just say that, for all of history except the most recent instant, there has been no way for any organism to know anything about DNA.

All they know is what somebody else looks like, where they come from, and what they do.

We're hard-wired to like the guys on OUR team, and dislike the guys on THEIR team.  And we're hard-wired to like babies.  And we're hard-wired to want a Daddy.  These are all irrational drives that get in the way of having an egalitarian utopia.
 
2014-05-04 06:03:58 PM

Waldo Pepper: Why does it seem that those who are pushing for diversity and acceptance have such a hard time tolerating diversity and acceptance of those who disagree with them?


Why are you not tolerant and accepting of my bigotry and campaigning to limit your rights? You are really the true bigot!
 
2014-05-04 06:04:48 PM

Bob Robert: lies about your sexual preference


Wow. I've been posting for over a year and have made no effort to hide my sexuality here on fark. But you just know everything about others' motivation more than they do, don't you? You're the king of puttign words in others' mouths (often changin their meaning 180 degrees) in order to win simplistic binary arguments. I've watched you do it to numerous people in your two weeks here.
 
2014-05-04 06:05:30 PM

archichris: Read up on the tactics that the Mafia uses to extort protection money and then read up on the tactics terrorists use to change public opinion or policy.....

Then read up on the tactics the LGBT activists use against Christians.

Its a scary parallel.

You know who else.... nah never mind, you arent reading anymore anyway.


And then read public accommodation laws so you don't sound like an idiot.
 
2014-05-04 06:05:39 PM

Bob Robert: campaigning to limit your rights?


Show me where he said this.
 
2014-05-04 06:08:41 PM
ricbach229: ]

The guy pushed out at Mozilla was fired for donating to a prop 8 support group that had their donor list illegally released.

This is absolutely untrue and you are spreading a lie.  The donor list was legally released by the California Secretary of state as mandated by law.  Quit  spreading lies.
 
2014-05-04 06:09:16 PM

Fafai: Wow. I've been posting for over a year and have made no effort to hide my sexuality here on fark. But you just know everything about others' motivation more than they do, don't you? You're the king of puttign words in others' mouths (often changin their meaning 180 degrees) in order to win simplistic binary arguments. I've watched you do it to numerous people in your two weeks here.



Your trolling is really getting desperate here. If you don't see the problem with supporting a business that wants to take away your basic human rights then there is no hope left for you. Keep white knighting for the conservative trolls, you're doing God's work.
 
2014-05-04 06:13:33 PM

Bob Robert: Fafai: Wow. I've been posting for over a year and have made no effort to hide my sexuality here on fark. But you just know everything about others' motivation more than they do, don't you? You're the king of puttign words in others' mouths (often changin their meaning 180 degrees) in order to win simplistic binary arguments. I've watched you do it to numerous people in your two weeks here.


Your trolling is really getting desperate here. If you don't see the problem with supporting a business that wants to take away your basic human rights then there is no hope left for you. Keep white knighting for the conservative trolls, you're doing God's work.


I'm more politically apathetic and care more about getting lunch more than I think one person can make a difference but in Super Binary World that means caring about doing God's work.

/Atheist, but those kind of facts don't matter to you. And I've asked you to cite the in-thread reasons for your assersions about both me and Waldo Pepper but you ignore all that. As dumb as I'm making myself look here (it's what I do), you're looking worse for being so simplistic here.
 
2014-05-04 06:14:54 PM

Fafai: Fafai: I'm with you. I'm as queer as a $3


Fafai: /and im not fully gay but im enthusiatically less than straight if that makes any difference


This might be where the confusion is coming from. I got no dog in your fight with BR, but I admit thinking that you were adjusting your sexuality to best fit the conversation at the moment. If I'm wrong, please say so, but that's how it came off.
 
2014-05-04 06:15:16 PM

Fafai: Bob Robert: Fafai: Wow. I've been posting for over a year and have made no effort to hide my sexuality here on fark. But you just know everything about others' motivation more than they do, don't you? You're the king of puttign words in others' mouths (often changin their meaning 180 degrees) in order to win simplistic binary arguments. I've watched you do it to numerous people in your two weeks here.


Your trolling is really getting desperate here. If you don't see the problem with supporting a business that wants to take away your basic human rights then there is no hope left for you. Keep white knighting for the conservative trolls, you're doing God's work.

I'm more politically apathetic and care more about getting lunch more than I think one person can make a difference but in Super Binary World that means caring about doing God's work.

/Atheist, but those kind of facts don't matter to you. And I've asked you to cite the in-thread reasons for your assersions about both me and Waldo Pepper but you ignore all that. As dumb as I'm making myself look here (it's what I do), you're looking worse for being so simplistic here.


You just admitted to purposefully making yourself look dumb. Well, maybe it's not on purpose, but you did it to support possibly the dumbest issue ever.
 
2014-05-04 06:22:31 PM

Fafai: I'm more politically apathetic and care more about getting lunch more than I think one person can make a difference but in Super Binary World that means caring about doing God's work.

/Atheist, but those kind of facts don't matter to you. And I've asked you to cite the in-thread reasons for your assersions about both me and Waldo Pepper but you ignore all that. As dumb as I'm making myself look here (it's what I do), you're looking worse for being so simplistic here.


Keep doubling down on your idiocy. The more you post the more you discredit your past beliefs. Now you feel the need to point out that you're atheist? I give you 2 more posts before you backpedal from that like you did after your "super queer" claim. Keep white knighting for trolling trash like Waldo Pepper. That is some intellectual company to be in.
 
2014-05-04 06:23:45 PM
This entire thread has devolved into a less than useful place.

img.fark.net
 
2014-05-04 06:24:23 PM

ricbach229: notto: ricbach229: ]

The guy pushed out at Mozilla was fired for donating to a prop 8 support group that had their donor list illegally released.

This is absolutely untrue and you are spreading a lie.  The donor list was legally released by the California Secretary of state as mandated by law.  Quit  spreading lies.

Thanks for being an asshole while calling me a liar over a mistake.  I didn't realize California had a $100 threshold for disclosure of donations to non politicians.

I notice you didn't correct me on the private phone call Stirlings had or the bakers case where they are essentially a kosher deli being forced to serve an unkosher cake.


Please explain this. What makes a kosher deli kosher is not their refusal to serve a particular customer. It is the list of ingredients that they do not use in their food. What ingredient is included in Gay Cake that is forbidden in Christian cake? Because that would be the only way the two situations would be at all the same.
 
2014-05-04 06:28:29 PM

ricbach229: notto: ricbach229: ]

Thanks for being an asshole while calling me a liar over a mistake.  I didn't realize California had a $100 threshold for disclosure of donations to non politicians.

I notice you didn't correct me on the private phone call Stirlings had or the bakers case where they are essentially a kosher deli being forced to serve an unkosher cake.


I didn't call you a liar.  I said you are spreading a lie.  You would be a liar if you purposely do it in the future.

Your kosher analogy is simply silly.
 
2014-05-04 06:29:27 PM
namegoeshere:
I notice you didn't correct me on the private phone call Stirlings had or the bakers case where they are essentially a kosher deli being forced to serve an unkosher cake.

Please explain this. What makes a kosher deli kosher is not their refusal to serve a particular customer. It is the list of ingredients that they do not use in their food. What ingredient is included in Gay Cake that is forbidden in Christian cake? Because that would be the only way the two situations would be at all the same.


Exactly.
 
2014-05-04 06:34:42 PM

namegoeshere: Fafai: Fafai: I'm with you. I'm as queer as a $3

Fafai: /and im not fully gay but im enthusiatically less than straight if that makes any difference

This might be where the confusion is coming from. I got no dog in your fight with BR, but I admit thinking that you were adjusting your sexuality to best fit the conversation at the moment. If I'm wrong, please say so, but that's how it came off.


Even the hetero stuff I do is pretty gay.
 
2014-05-04 06:38:46 PM

namegoeshere: ricbach229: notto: ricbach229: ]

The guy pushed out at Mozilla was fired for donating to a prop 8 support group that had their donor list illegally released.

This is absolutely untrue and you are spreading a lie.  The donor list was legally released by the California Secretary of state as mandated by law.  Quit  spreading lies.

Thanks for being an asshole while calling me a liar over a mistake.  I didn't realize California had a $100 threshold for disclosure of donations to non politicians.

I notice you didn't correct me on the private phone call Stirlings had or the bakers case where they are essentially a kosher deli being forced to serve an unkosher cake.

Please explain this. What makes a kosher deli kosher is not their refusal to serve a particular customer. It is the list of ingredients that they do not use in their food. What ingredient is included in Gay Cake that is forbidden in Christian cake? Because that would be the only way the two situations would be at all the same.


Kosher isn't just kosher because of the ingredients.  It's also in the prep.  Slaughter a cow one way and it's kosher, do it another and it's just hamburger.

The bakers sell a wedding cake as a contribution to the marriage sacrament.  Something as small as the male/female figure on the top of the cake is a part of it.  Now they're being forced to change the cakes decorations from what they artistically believe appropriate and sell to people who are not even committing the sacrament. In the case in Colorado the baker had made other products without any problem for the couple in question.  It was only when it came to the wedding cake that the baker said no, this is different, can't do it.
 
2014-05-04 06:39:13 PM

Fafai: Even the hetero stuff I do is pretty gay.


Just as I first claimed, pathetic troll. You lost the debate, tripped over your claims, and embarrassed yourself all in the span of a few minutes. Good job.
 
2014-05-04 06:39:31 PM

Bob Robert: Now you feel the need to point out that you're atheist?


In response you insinuating I'm a soldier of God, yes. Or is that trolling of me to correct you when you say things about my personal beliefs?

Trolls! Trolls everywhere!
 
2014-05-04 06:47:47 PM
Fafai: Even the hetero stuff I do is pretty gay.

Dude. Or not...

TOO MUCH INFORMATION.

Wise up, or you'll end up sinking yourself with that big mouth of yours.

Just a friendly warning...from the Twilight Zone.
 
2014-05-04 06:48:29 PM

ricbach229: namegoeshere: ricbach229: notto: ricbach229: ]

The guy pushed out at Mozilla was fired for donating to a prop 8 support group that had their donor list illegally released.

This is absolutely untrue and you are spreading a lie.  The donor list was legally released by the California Secretary of state as mandated by law.  Quit  spreading lies.

Thanks for being an asshole while calling me a liar over a mistake.  I didn't realize California had a $100 threshold for disclosure of donations to non politicians.

I notice you didn't correct me on the private phone call Stirlings had or the bakers case where they are essentially a kosher deli being forced to serve an unkosher cake.

Please explain this. What makes a kosher deli kosher is not their refusal to serve a particular customer. It is the list of ingredients that they do not use in their food. What ingredient is included in Gay Cake that is forbidden in Christian cake? Because that would be the only way the two situations would be at all the same.

Kosher isn't just kosher because of the ingredients.  It's also in the prep.  Slaughter a cow one way and it's kosher, do

it another and it's just hamburger.

And refusing to sell the same kosher burger to one person that they freely sell to another person would be similar to this. Refusing to sell a non-kosher sandwich in their kosher business is not.


The bakers sell a wedding cake as a contribution to the marriage sacrament.  Something as small as the male/female figure on the top of the cake is a part of it.  Now they're being forced to change the cakes decorations from what they artistically believe appropriate and sell to people who are not even committing the sacrament. In the case in Colorado the baker had made other products without any problem for the couple in question.  It was only when it came to the wedding cake that the baker said no, this is different, can't do it.

They are in no way contributing to the sacrament of marriage. They aren't marrying the couple. There is no cake in a wedding ceremony. They're baking a cake for the party after the ceremony. They're baking the same cake they bake for every other  couple. They are specifically denying that same cake to the gay couple. And again, it has fark all to do with your kosher deli example.
 
2014-05-04 06:51:23 PM

Fafai: Bob Robert: Now you feel the need to point out that you're atheist?

In response you insinuating I'm a soldier of God, yes. Or is that trolling of me to correct you when you say things about my personal beliefs?

Trolls! Trolls everywhere!


And you're just awful at it.
 
2014-05-04 06:51:47 PM

Bob Robert: You lost the debate,


Please tell me what debate I lost. I entered into this saying you put words in WaldoPepper's mouth. Specifically, saying he insisted upon people supporting bigoted corporations when in fact his sentiment said the opposite ("if you want to boycott that is great"). You haven't shown me where he said what you were saying he said at all. You also haven't shown me where I was expressing any concern for corporations being oppressed, as you claimed. All you've done is stomp your foot, cry troll, and make assumptions about a complete stranger's religious beliefs and sexuality.
 
2014-05-04 06:54:18 PM
ricbach229:

The bakers sell a wedding cake as a contribution to the marriage sacrament.

Absolute BS.  There is no indication that the bakers in question ever refused to anyone based on the arrangements of their wedding and they certainly never had this discussion with their past clients.  I'm sure they provided product to people who only had a civil ceremony or another type of non-Christian ceremony and in no way are they participating in the religious (or non religious) part of the wedding.

If they think that they are and that this somehow gives them a right to refuse service then they need to find a different business or a very good attorney because they are violating the terms of their business license that they agreed to when they opened their shop.
 
2014-05-04 06:56:05 PM

Fafai: Bob Robert: You lost the debate,

Please tell me what debate I lost. I entered into this saying you put words in WaldoPepper's mouth. Specifically, saying he insisted upon people supporting bigoted corporations when in fact his sentiment said the opposite ("if you want to boycott that is great"). You haven't shown me where he said what you were saying he said at all. You also haven't shown me where I was expressing any concern for corporations being oppressed, as you claimed. All you've done is stomp your foot, cry troll, and make assumptions about a complete stranger's religious beliefs and sexuality.


ITT, troll vehemently denies trolling, makes sh*t up that happen to be really convenient to his argument, blames others when called out on it.
 
2014-05-04 06:56:54 PM

namegoeshere: ricbach229: namegoeshere: ricbach229: notto: ricbach229: ]

The guy pushed out at Mozilla was fired for donating to a prop 8 support group that had their donor list illegally released.

This is absolutely untrue and you are spreading a lie.  The donor list was legally released by the California Secretary of state as mandated by law.  Quit  spreading lies.

Thanks for being an asshole while calling me a liar over a mistake.  I didn't realize California had a $100 threshold for disclosure of donations to non politicians.

I notice you didn't correct me on the private phone call Stirlings had or the bakers case where they are essentially a kosher deli being forced to serve an unkosher cake.

Please explain this. What makes a kosher deli kosher is not their refusal to serve a particular customer. It is the list of ingredients that they do not use in their food. What ingredient is included in Gay Cake that is forbidden in Christian cake? Because that would be the only way the two situations would be at all the same.

Kosher isn't just kosher because of the ingredients.  It's also in the prep.  Slaughter a cow one way and it's kosher, do it another and it's just hamburger.

And refusing to sell the same kosher burger to one person that they freely sell to another person would be similar to this. Refusing to sell a non-kosher sandwich in their kosher business is not.


The bakers sell a wedding cake as a contribution to the marriage sacrament.  Something as small as the male/female figure on the top of the cake is a part of it.  Now they're being forced to change the cakes decorations from what they artistically believe appropriate and sell to people who are not even committing the sacrament. In the case in Colorado the baker had made other products without any problem for the couple in question.  It was only when it came to the wedding cake that the baker said no, this is different, can't do it.

They are in no way contributing to the sacrament of marriage. They aren't ma ...


The cake is a part of the celebration of the blessing.  Hell, I've got an uncle-in-law that wouldn't visit my house because my wife and I weren't married yet and were living together.  After the marriage he talked to his priest about if it was appropriate because she is Catholic and we didn't have a Catholic service (outdoors in fact) so it wasn't recognized by the Church.  I think he's visited once and he said the prayers before we ate. I can easily believe a person of conscience could have a strong religious desire not to contribute any type of blessing on a service that violates the tenets of their church.
 
2014-05-04 07:00:56 PM
Fafai: Please tell me what debate I lost.

All of them.

encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com
 
2014-05-04 07:01:06 PM

ricbach229: namegoeshere: ricbach229: namegoeshere: ricbach229: notto: ricbach229: ]

The guy pushed out at Mozilla was fired for donating to a prop 8 support group that had their donor list illegally released.

This is absolutely untrue and you are spreading a lie.  The donor list was legally released by the California Secretary of state as mandated by law.  Quit  spreading lies.

Thanks for being an asshole while calling me a liar over a mistake.  I didn't realize California had a $100 threshold for disclosure of donations to non politicians.

I notice you didn't correct me on the private phone call Stirlings had or the bakers case where they are essentially a kosher deli being forced to serve an unkosher cake.

Please explain this. What makes a kosher deli kosher is not their refusal to serve a particular customer. It is the list of ingredients that they do not use in their food. What ingredient is included in Gay Cake that is forbidden in Christian cake? Because that would be the only way the two situations would be at all the same.

Kosher isn't just kosher because of the ingredients.  It's also in the prep.  Slaughter a cow one way and it's kosher, do it another and it's just hamburger.

And refusing to sell the same kosher burger to one person that they freely sell to another person would be similar to this. Refusing to sell a non-kosher sandwich in their kosher business is not.


The bakers sell a wedding cake as a contribution to the marriage sacrament.  Something as small as the male/female figure on the top of the cake is a part of it.  Now they're being forced to change the cakes decorations from what they artistically believe appropriate and sell to people who are not even committing the sacrament. In the case in Colorado the baker had made other products without any problem for the couple in question.  It was only when it came to the wedding cake that the baker said no, this is different, can't do it.

They are in no way contributing to the sacrament of marriage. They aren't ma ...

The cake is a part of the celebration of the blessing.  Hell, I've got an uncle-in-law that wouldn't visit my house because my wife and I weren't married yet and were living together.  After the marriage he talked to his priest about if it was appropriate because she is Catholic and we didn't have a Catholic service (outdoors in fact) so it wasn't recognized by the Church.  I think he's visited once and he said the prayers before we ate. I can easily believe a person of conscience could have a strong religious desire not to contribute any type of blessing on a service that violates the tenets of their church.


The cake has no significance in the wedding. It's part of the reception.
 
2014-05-04 07:02:12 PM
ricbach229:

Hell, I've got an uncle-in-law that wouldn't visit my house because my wife and I weren't married yet and were living together.

So, by your logic, your mortgage was a 'sinful' one and the bank would have the right to refuse to finance your house or foreclose once they found out about it if it was against the bank owners religious views.

Is that your argument?
 
2014-05-04 07:08:45 PM

ricbach229: The cake is a part of the celebration of the blessing. Hell, I've got an uncle-in-law that wouldn't visit my house because my wife and I weren't married yet and were living together. After the marriage he talked to his priest about if it was appropriate because she is Catholic and we didn't have a Catholic service (outdoors in fact) so it wasn't recognized by the Church. I think he's visited once and he said the prayers before we ate. I can easily believe a person of conscience could have a strong religious desire not to contribute any type of blessing on a service that violates the tenets of their church


No one will ever hold a gun to their heads and force them to bake a wedding cake for a gay couple. They are free to refuse - if they are willing to deal with the consequences of their actions. Refusing the cake to a gay couple is negatively impacting their business. If they are going to refuse the cake, they need to accept the consequences of that refusal.

I have to wonder, though, if they would refuse the same cake to the couple previously married and divorced, the atheist couple, the couple with kids outside of the marriage, the couple wearing mixed fabrics and serving lobster at the reception, ect, or is it just the gay couple who violates their code.
 
2014-05-04 07:12:45 PM

cameroncrazy1984: ITT, troll vehemently denies trolling, makes sh*t up that happen to be really convenient to his argument, blames others when called out on it.


Again with the troll shiat. Did you see my response to achon? Did you catch my posts in response to cchris_39 by any chance? Why would I be arguing with a conservative like him and then also argue with a liberal like Bob Robert? Could it be because they both have more in common with each other than either of them do with me? Could they both be ridiculously binary and simplistic in their views and not seem to understand nuance and grey areas at all?

What shiat did I make up? Stuff about being queer? Where do you get off calling someone's professed sexual identity a lie (the fact is I've been identifying as bi on this site for as long as I've been here)? Look at you, so invested in me being a straight conservative just so that (I presume) you can continue on with your oversimplified view of life and politics without having to exercise your brain.

And who else did I blame? I came in this thread with a pro-gay stance, but it's not even anti-gay vs pro-gay anymore. It's people who need to align themselves and everyone else with a "side" so they can understand their own politics without having to think for themselves vs people who have no problem thinking for themselves and understand not everything is either/or. Only one of these sides is calling the other a troll. Thinking others are just trolls makes understanding any nuanced conflict a hell of a lot easier, wouldn't you agree?
 
2014-05-04 07:13:37 PM

cameroncrazy1984: The cake has no significance in the wedding. It's part of the reception.


The cake is as much a part of the "sacrament" as the band.
 
2014-05-04 07:15:15 PM

Kittypie070: I never grasped how wishing to get married was "NO MORALS!" anyway.

I guess these Christians prefer "living in sin" as they call it, since they actually don't want people to get married.


Nobody should want to get married1. It is a terrible financial decision.

1everybody should have the right to get married if they want to though2
2
making this clear because a certain drooling idiot in this thread will inevitably accuse me of being against gay rights
 
2014-05-04 07:16:09 PM

Kittypie070: Fafai: Please tell me what debate I lost.

All of them.

[encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 259x194]


Then you should have no problem showing me where I expressed concerned for bigoted corporations being oppressed or where WaldoPepper said people should support such corporations.
 
2014-05-04 07:18:09 PM

Teufelaffe: cameroncrazy1984: The cake has no significance in the wedding. It's part of the reception.

The cake is as much a part of the "sacrament" as the band.


I.E. It's not at all.
 
2014-05-04 07:19:24 PM
Since I'm on mobile I won't quote that wall of text but allow me to say that this is the first thread any of us have seen you post in, and it's very convenient for you to pretend to be gay to bolster your argument that you are non-partisan.
 
2014-05-04 07:19:31 PM

cameroncrazy1984: Teufelaffe: cameroncrazy1984: The cake has no significance in the wedding. It's part of the reception.

The cake is as much a part of the "sacrament" as the band.

I.E. It's not at all.


Indeed.
 
2014-05-04 07:23:07 PM

jjorsett: hubiestubert: It's not limiting the career options of Christians, but limiting the career options for asshats.

You want to be a bigot and an asshat, who limits their market by excluding a fair amount of the population, yeah, you're looking at cutting your own damn throat, and it's self selecting your own career demise. That's freedom, baby.

How about, oh say, donating money to support support traditional marriage, gun ownership, school vouchers, anti-minimum-wage, or any of the other left-wing bêtes noires? Should such people be hounded out of careers because only asshats support such things? And if some group on the opposite side of the political spectrum feels the  supporters of  climate change legislation should be removed from the public square and their high-profile jobs, is that okay with you? Is the modern equivalent of witch-burning what you want as the new paradigm?


As you shall sow, so shall ye reap. The paradigm is the same: The Golden Rule. Maybe you should think about how dickish folks have been with their support, and then wonder why folks are pointing and laughing at the idiocy that you've been spouting, O Brave Pioneer...

It's not about sides, you twit. It's about the freedom to disagree, and then whining when folks show their support or disagreement. It's about pants on head retardedness being classified as being equal because it's only "fair." Oh, the poor struggle of the persecuted Christian who can't carry out his vindictive rant against the homos, it's totally the same as how the slaves were treated. Cry me a river for the Sallies who are upset that OTHER people don't hate the gheys...

Rucking fetarded...
 
2014-05-04 07:34:29 PM

phenn: noitsnot: phenn: Showed up on my FB feed:

[i.imgur.com image 450x450]

All the hatred towards people who are different from us is learned behavior. Not in any way born or organic.

Unlearn that shiat and live free ya bunch of farkwits.


Unfortunately, I believe, not true.  Discrimination against groups that are "unlike" one's own is instinctive behavior - except for mating (to promote genetic diversity).  Both are traits that promote the survival of one's own group.

I'll nibble because I think you're being thoughtful and genuine.

We are not unlike. I'm a middle-aged white woman of Irish lineage. Let's say - for a moment - you're a 25-year old black male.

Your DNA and mine are nearly identical. We are both two-legged critters whose survival actually depends on fostering empathy.

Now, I know people who have been raised to believe that particular line of thinking. Shiat's cool and they do well in social situations. I also know people who have been raised to believe that black people, Asian people, gay people, non-christian people (whatever) will be the downfall of humanity as we know it.

For my own experiences, I think everyone I know was born with the first attitude I mention. I think the latter attitude is learned/taught/drilled into the skull. And, hey. I'm prepared to be wrong on this.

Intuitively speaking, it behooves the human species to protect its own. Not dilly-dally on who might be gay, black, short, silly looking and so forth.

That is survival. And - I think - that is what species do.

At least, I hope so.  :-)


http://www.livescience.com/20089-facial-racial-bias-infants.html

Babies cannot read DNA.

Being a decent human being is the learned behaviour, it is really easy (childish) to disregard/avoid/hate the other.

You being not racist/sexist/etc is excellent, but it is because you are a considerate educated adult, not because you were born that way.
 
2014-05-04 07:47:34 PM

cameroncrazy1984: Since I'm on mobile I won't quote that wall of text but allow me to say that this is the first thread any of us have seen you post in, and it's very convenient for you to pretend to be gay to bolster your argument that you are non-partisan.


If we could get the mobile to not make us quote the whole wall every time I will personally bake a cake for a gay wedding.
 
2014-05-04 07:53:23 PM

thismomentinblackhistory: Baz744: Here's the thing that gets me about gay opponents. They're all so "up in your face" about their "disapproval" of homosexuality. They have to broadcast it everywhere they go. They put it on their bumper stickers, they wear it on their t-shirts, or they pin it to themselves on a button. They just refuse to keep their lifestyles to themselves.

I don't care if people want to disapprove of homosexuality in the privacy of their own homes. Whatever revolting things they want to do on their own time in their own place is fine.

But if you decide to flaunt your perverted gay hate everywhere you go, don't be surprised when there are consequences. Don't be surprised if employers don't want anything to do with you. Don't be surprised if your normal friends with good morals abandon you. Don't be surprised if even your own family rejects you.

Keep your gay hate in the closet where it belongs.

Beautiful.


Next on the agenda:

Are anti-gay attitudes chosen? Or do they arise from genetics? Because if it's the former, then polite society is really justified in shunning them as perverted deviants.

But if it's the latter, then I think they're more to be pitied than censured. Instead of just casting them to the outer darkness, we should approach them with compassion in the recognition that we may someday find a cure for their mental disorder.
 
2014-05-04 07:53:38 PM
Let's put this in perspective. Let us suppose that our hypothetical subject is not a homophobic bigot, but a pedophile. Let us further suppose that this person frequently expresses the sentiment that having sex with small children is a great thing, and that people should do it more often. Let us further suppose that he perhaps publishes a blog that also expresses these sentiments. Let us even further supposes that he makes frequent donations to NAMBLA, and is unapologetic about it.
Now - who here wishes to do business with, associate with, work with, or employ this person? What? None of you?
Quelle surprise.
That's because it's UNACCEPTABLE.
Period.
Well, the only thing that is changing is that bigotry regarding innate characteristics is joining that short list of views that are not acceptable among the civilized. Nothing else has changed. There have always been things one could not say without severe consequences. It's just the things themselves that change, over time.
It's too bad some people don't like bigotry being add to the list - but, time goes on, and things change.
Society is not becoming any less tolerant of transgressive views than it ever has - probably a bit more so.
Some people just think it is, because views they are comfortable with are becoming unacceptable.
 
2014-05-04 08:14:30 PM
Fark.com: Like /b/, but for old people!
 
2014-05-04 08:16:07 PM

gilgigamesh: Tell me about it. I can't even hang the "NO COLOREDS OR JEWS" sign God told me to put up without catching all kinds of hell.

I'm all persecuted. Just like Jesus.


I'm pretty sure when people were hanging those signs in their stores they weren't complaining about a lack of business.
 
2014-05-04 08:19:55 PM

ScaryBottles: Miss Alexandra: Well, for every gay that wants to purposely wreck a Christian's livelihood out of hate, there is likely at least one Christian who will be a customer.

You don't go into an occult shop and demand they stock King James Bibles.  Likewise, if a Christian--obeying their conscience--doesn't want to be involved in your so-called "wedding," just find someone with no morals or make it yourself.

I think most people have the sense to know that these gays are just being hateful and spiteful.  "Waaahhh...we can't get these guys to tolerate our perverted lifestyle!  Let's make sure we put them out of business!"

/just disgusted right now

Holy crap I had heard you existed but I thought it was just a myth! You're the Geocentrist housewife!

http://www.genesis-creation-proof.com/geocentricity.html


Holy crap. That site is so farking stupid you could use it as a textbook on the Poe principle.
 
2014-05-04 08:21:14 PM

ScaryBottles: Forty-Two: ScaryBottles: Por que tan serioso: Thats it right there. Activists. Someone up thread was saying something bla bla bla "fair amount of the population" bla bla bla. LGBT are not even close. Tiny minority. But the way people talk its seems like 50/50 at this point.

Because the only people who care about marriage equality are LGBTs. See Einstein this is why everyone thinks you guys are bigoted pieces of shiat. But really really terrible try.

Exactly. I'm a heterosexual woman. I'm married to a heterosexual man. We have a baby, and we plan to make another. Hey, we're even white (Dutch and Irish genes make for very pale babies).  And you know what? I support marriage equality. I voted against Prop 8, and I have no plans to eat at Chik-Fil-A.

Yes, I have gay friends (including two who just got married, with Latrice Royale officiating!), but it shouldn't even matterthat it affects people close to me. I support homosexual marriage because I'm human and believe in equality under the law.

So, no. It's not a tiny minority of activists who these businesses are alienating. It's people like me, as well.

Thats awesome I personally would have tried to get Sharon Needles. Season 4 FTW!

Straight male living in sin/


Nice!  Sharoneedles is one of my goto names in MMO's.

/then I gave her another crack in her ass
 
2014-05-04 08:35:08 PM

namegoeshere: ricbach229: notto: ricbach229: ]

The guy pushed out at Mozilla was fired for donating to a prop 8 support group that had their donor list illegally released.

This is absolutely untrue and you are spreading a lie.  The donor list was legally released by the California Secretary of state as mandated by law.  Quit  spreading lies.

Thanks for being an asshole while calling me a liar over a mistake.  I didn't realize California had a $100 threshold for disclosure of donations to non politicians.

I notice you didn't correct me on the private phone call Stirlings had or the bakers case where they are essentially a kosher deli being forced to serve an unkosher cake.

Please explain this. What makes a kosher deli kosher is not their refusal to serve a particular customer. It is the list of ingredients that they do not use in their food. What ingredient is included in Gay Cake that is forbidden in Christian cake? Because that would be the only way the two situations would be at all the same.


Gay ingredients... Cumin?

Maybe someone else can do better.
 
2014-05-04 08:35:25 PM

namegoeshere: They are in no way contributing to the sacrament of marriage. They aren't marrying the couple. There is no cake in a wedding ceremony. They're baking a cake for the party after the ceremony. They're baking the same cake they bake for every other  couple. They are specifically denying that same cake to the gay couple. And again, it has fark all to do with your kosher deli example.


Lets say i hunt allot and i have a great picture of myself stabbing a deer in the face... And i take it in to a framing shop owned by a PETA ultravegan... and the guy politely tells me he cant open his business towards something he feels glorifies killing animals... Its against his values...

Is he a bigot?
 
2014-05-04 08:38:22 PM

mikefinch: namegoeshere: They are in no way contributing to the sacrament of marriage. They aren't marrying the couple. There is no cake in a wedding ceremony. They're baking a cake for the party after the ceremony. They're baking the same cake they bake for every other  couple. They are specifically denying that same cake to the gay couple. And again, it has fark all to do with your kosher deli example.

Lets say i hunt allot and i have a great picture of myself stabbing a deer in the face... And i take it in to a framing shop owned by a PETA ultravegan... and the guy politely tells me he cant open his business towards something he feels glorifies killing animals... Its against his values...

Is he a bigot?


Yes, but all vegans and PETA members are.
 
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