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(The Daily Beast)   Number of careers available to Christians "is quickly shrinking as homosexuals seek opportunities to wreck the personal business and career of any Christian who declines to support the gay lifestyle." This is bad news for florists   (thedailybeast.com) divider line 349
    More: Obvious, LGBT culture, prospective parliamentary candidate, gays and lesbians, Pippa Middleton  
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10056 clicks; posted to Main » on 04 May 2014 at 1:40 PM (33 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



349 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-05-04 10:43:06 AM  
It's not limiting the career options of Christians, but limiting the career options for asshats.

You want to be a bigot and an asshat, who limits their market by excluding a fair amount of the population, yeah, you're looking at cutting your own damn throat, and it's self selecting your own career demise. That's freedom, baby.
 
2014-05-04 10:43:48 AM  
I love how right-wingers are all about "GUBBMIT SHOULD STAY OUT OF THE FREE MARKET" until the free market tells someone it has a problem with them being a bigot.
 
2014-05-04 10:51:07 AM  
Yeah, what THEY^^^ said.

These assholes are all "free market capitalists", until the free market curb stomps  them.  Then they demand protection.
 
2014-05-04 11:04:50 AM  
Subby's blog was poorly written and subby should feel bad.

That said, hypocrisy isn't exactly new or anything. Hell we have the modern religious freedom movement complaining that the act of making abuse of gays illegal is actually impeding their freedom and that businesses have religious values that are important now that obamacare is law, because they dontnwant employees to pay for insurance to cover their slut pills.
 
2014-05-04 11:08:36 AM  
Isn't "You can't choose to limit who you sell to and then b*tch that not enough people are buying from you"  in like, the first ten Laws of Acquisition?
 
2014-05-04 11:08:42 AM  
If they kept their opinions to themselves and focused on running a business they wouldn't have a problem? Crazy idea.
 
2014-05-04 11:12:50 AM  
Ah, the gay bogeyman.

He only hides under beds that have at least 1000 thread count sheets on them.
 
2014-05-04 11:21:25 AM  

FirstNationalBastard: Ah, the gay bogeyman.

He only hides under beds that have at least 1000 thread count sheets on them.


Oh, I seriously doubt that.  I'm willing to bet good money there aren't lots of 400+ thread count sheets in double-wides.
 
2014-05-04 11:21:54 AM  

JoieD'Zen: If they kept their opinions to themselves and focused on running a business they wouldn't have a problem? Crazy idea.

And got with the times and realized that people, in general, don't like bigots, but really don't care if some dude wants to marry or sleep with another dude, hence, why people look down upon them.
 
2014-05-04 12:06:01 PM  
Tell me about it. I can't even hang the "NO COLOREDS OR JEWS" sign God told me to put up without catching all kinds of hell.

I'm all persecuted. Just like Jesus.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-05-04 12:09:51 PM  
Considering how they tried to wreck the personal business and careers of gays and everyone else on the long list of people they hate, I wouldn't have a problem with that even if it were true.
 
2014-05-04 12:10:04 PM  

gilgigamesh: Tell me about it. I can't even hang the "NO COLOREDS OR JEWS" sign God told me to put up without catching all kinds of hell.

I'm all persecuted. Just like Jesus.


You could put up a NO COLORED JEWS sign, but that would be the exact day Sammy Davis, Jr. Wanted to come in Your establishment.
 
2014-05-04 12:15:29 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: gilgigamesh: Tell me about it. I can't even hang the "NO COLOREDS OR JEWS" sign God told me to put up without catching all kinds of hell.

I'm all persecuted. Just like Jesus.

You could put up a NO COLORED JEWS sign, but that would be the exact day Sammy Davis, Jr. Wanted to come in Your establishment.


No freaking way man. Colored Jewish zombies are definitely banned. Just like Jesus.
 
2014-05-04 12:29:04 PM  
fta Anyone "who has authority of the sword, is the ruler of a city, or wears the purple" has to resign his job or leave.

Aaaaand then they decapitated his whole family. You don't want to say 'no' to people who have authority of the sword. Just ask Vince Foster and Chris Stevens.
 
2014-05-04 12:50:39 PM  

Notabunny: fta Anyone "who has authority of the sword, is the ruler of a city, or wears the purple" has to resign his job or leave.

Aaaaand then they decapitated his whole family. You don't want to say 'no' to people who have authority of the sword. Just ask Vince Foster and Chris Stevens.


I'm not asking any zombies.
 
2014-05-04 12:59:07 PM  
I'm much more afraid of getting farked in the ass by a business with signs festooned by Jesus fish than I am by one with signs awash in rainbows.
 
2014-05-04 01:02:32 PM  

Mr. Coffee Nerves: I'm much more afraid of getting farked in the ass by a business with signs festooned by Jesus fish than I am by one with signs awash in rainbows.


Guaranf*cknteed, if they bring their disabilities, charity or religion into a business transaction, you will get screwed, or at minimum, horribly manipulated.
 
2014-05-04 01:11:08 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: Ah, the gay bogeyman.

He only hides under beds that have at least 1000 thread count sheets on them.


Nah. We gays know that over 600 is redundant and unnecessary. 600-count Egyptian cotton sateen is heavenly.
 
2014-05-04 01:45:07 PM  
Read up on the tactics that the Mafia uses to extort protection money and then read up on the tactics terrorists use to change public opinion or policy.....

Then read up on the tactics the LGBT activists use against Christians.

Its a scary parallel.

You know who else.... nah never mind, you arent reading anymore anyway.
 
2014-05-04 01:45:51 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: Ah, the gay bogeyman.

He only hides under beds that have at least 1000 thread count sheets on them.


You forgot about the one who like it rough. They are under the 100 thread count walmart sheets.
 
2014-05-04 01:47:18 PM  
It is called keeping your personal life personal, and your business life outside of your religious life.

And if you don't want to put two grooms on the top of a cake then don't open a bakery.
 
2014-05-04 01:49:36 PM  
The majority is going crazy when they think they get treated like how they have treated minorities in the past. The irony is overflowing with deliciousness.
 
2014-05-04 01:50:44 PM  
I'm not sure persecution is exactly the same as declining to support. Someone trying to pass laws to limit the rights of others is persecuting them, not declining to support them.

I hope any Christians (or anybody of any/no religion, actually) who tries to curtail the rights of others gets treated by society and the free market like the assholes they are.

Let's hope they learn to exercise their right to remain silent.
 
2014-05-04 01:52:12 PM  
I wish I had a gay lifestyle, unfortunately my lifestyle is depressing.
 
2014-05-04 01:52:57 PM  

archichris: Read up on the tactics that the Mafia uses to extort protection money and then read up on the tactics terrorists use to change public opinion or policy.....

Then read up on the tactics the LGBT activists use against Christians.

Its a scary parallel.

You know who else.... nah never mind, you arent reading anymore anyway.


this... This is a Poe right?
 
2014-05-04 01:52:57 PM  

archichris: Read up on the tactics that the Mafia uses to extort protection money and then read up on the tactics terrorists use to change public opinion or policy.....

Then read up on the tactics the LGBT activists use against Christians.

Its a scary parallel.

You know who else.... nah never mind, you arent reading anymore anyway.


Yes, I'm absolutely sure that gay people are walking into Christian run businesses, breaking a few things, then saying "If you're not serving gays the next time I come in here, I won't be so nice."
 
2014-05-04 01:53:06 PM  

ecmoRandomNumbers: FirstNationalBastard: Ah, the gay bogeyman.

He only hides under beds that have at least 1000 thread count sheets on them.

Nah. We gays know that over 600 is redundant and unnecessary. 600-count Egyptian cotton sateen is heavenly.


Yea, well you're missing out. I've got 1000-counts on my beds and wouldn't give them up. Also, I'm not gay, so that may skew my 'sheet feel' receptors.
 
2014-05-04 01:53:08 PM  
WTF am I reading?
 
2014-05-04 01:53:30 PM  

jake_lex: I love how right-wingers are all about "GUBBMIT SHOULD STAY OUT OF THE FREE MARKET" until the free market tells someone it has a problem with them being a bigot.


THIS! THIS! THIS! THIS! THIS!!
 
2014-05-04 01:54:27 PM  

soseussme: I hope any Christians (or anybody of any/no religion, actually) who tries to curtail the rights of others gets treated by society and the free market like the assholes they are.


I'll remember you said that.
 
2014-05-04 01:55:14 PM  
Meh.  If you want to limit yourself to ChickFillet or HobbyLobby, be my guest.  (Sorry about the spelling-never been to either.)
 
2014-05-04 01:55:20 PM  

JoshTheTech: I wish I had a gay lifestyle, unfortunately my lifestyle is depressing.


You could, however, have a gay agenda...

pbs.twimg.com
 
2014-05-04 01:55:30 PM  

JoshTheTech: I wish I had a gay lifestyle, unfortunately my lifestyle is depressing.


Have you tried donning your gay apparel?
 
2014-05-04 01:56:34 PM  

archichris: Read up on the tactics that the Mafia uses to extort protection money and then read up on the tactics terrorists use to change public opinion or policy.....

Then read up on the tactics the LGBT activists use against Christians.

Its a scary parallel.

You know who else.... nah never mind, you arent reading anymore anyway.


Funny, when I looked into this just now, I didn't see anything that I would consider a scary parallel. Could you be more specific?
 
2014-05-04 01:58:23 PM  

disjointedthinking.jeffhughes.ca



/Oblig
 
2014-05-04 01:59:19 PM  
Biology is right out.
 
2014-05-04 02:00:03 PM  
Now hiring amateur lion feeder. No animal experience necessary; start immediately. Generous retirement contribution after 60 days. Atheists need not apply.
 
433 [TotalFark]
2014-05-04 02:02:17 PM  

b0rg9: JoshTheTech: I wish I had a gay lifestyle, unfortunately my lifestyle is depressing.

You could, however, have a gay agenda...

[pbs.twimg.com image 432x574]


There was one circulating around inboxes about fifteen years ago, titled "The Homosexual Agenda."  There was a fifteen minute entry, 6:45 - 7:00 - be fabulous!  It cracked me up then, and thinking about it now, I'm grinning.
 
2014-05-04 02:02:59 PM  

archichris: Read up on the tactics that the Mafia uses to extort protection money and then read up on the tactics terrorists use to change public opinion or policy.....

Then read up on the tactics the LGBT activists use against Christians.

Its a scary parallel.

You know who else.... nah never mind, you arent reading anymore anyway.

p.gr-assets.com
 
2014-05-04 02:03:06 PM  
Bigots should go back to where they came from.
 
2014-05-04 02:03:26 PM  
Showed up on my FB feed:

i.imgur.com

All the hatred towards people who are different from us is learned behavior. Not in any way born or organic.

Unlearn that shiat and live free ya bunch of farkwits.
 
2014-05-04 02:03:36 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: FirstNationalBastard: Ah, the gay bogeyman.

He only hides under beds that have at least 1000 thread count sheets on them.

Oh, I seriously doubt that.  I'm willing to bet good money there aren't lots of 400+ thread count sheets in double-wides


Nah, you're thinking of closets. Of those sorts there are uncountable numbers.
 
2014-05-04 02:03:40 PM  
Candida Moss sounds like a pseudonym for two fun guys.
 
2014-05-04 02:03:56 PM  
bloggingblue.com
/The Gayroller is coming for you.
 
2014-05-04 02:04:14 PM  
So, let me get this straight...We don't want to serve gay people, so gay people are taking their business elsewhere and that's not fair.

That can't be right.  Seriously, it can't be.
 
2014-05-04 02:04:46 PM  

hubiestubert: It's not limiting the career options of Christians, but limiting the career options for asshats.


But the kinds of people making claims like this also maintain that No True Christian would tolerate or work with homosexuals.  Anyone willing to be (as you put it) not an asshat has stopped being a TRUE Christian.
 
2014-05-04 02:04:54 PM  
b0rg9:

You could, however, have a gay agenda...

Dayum! It only takes 15 minutes to break up a heterosexual man-woman marriage?!

Nuclear family is under attack!!
 
2014-05-04 02:05:45 PM  

JoshTheTech: I wish I had a gay lifestyle, unfortunately my lifestyle is depressing.


1.bp.blogspot.com

You start dressing like this and things will improve
 
2014-05-04 02:06:11 PM  
Thanks to Johnny Weir, they could soon be adding milliners to that list.
 
2014-05-04 02:06:56 PM  
Ahh Change..
what you humans could do without that, Eh?
But, God's infinite wisdom gave to us plenty of change.

What is up today, is down tomorrow;
You can take that to the bank.
While i watch the ascendancy of foolishness,
i can also see the decline of same.

When everyone is hungry, and facing disaster from natural forces;
and their own weapons;
who is gonna care about these existential issues that take up our leisure time?

The higher ye go,
the faster ye fall.
 
2014-05-04 02:08:25 PM  
According to the church manual, if a person teaches "young children" then "it is good indeed for him to cease. "  As the Rev. Maxwell Johnson, Professor of Liturgical Studies at the University of Notre Dame, points out in his commentary on the text, the problem seems to be that schoolteachers would have to teach classical literature about pagan gods and festivals.

Because teaching children about pagan gods and festivals is the church's job.
 
gja [TotalFark]
2014-05-04 02:09:05 PM  

Apos: [disjointedthinking.jeffhughes.ca image 350x262]

/Oblig


Just an FYI, to be fair and full disclosure that graphic is only correct for the USA, not the world.
 
2014-05-04 02:09:09 PM  
Look, the Free Speech Commandment says a person should be able to be a religious bigot and exclude anyone they want, and people who don't like it should still do business with them because it's his right to be a bigot and not to be judged for it.

It's the American way.
 
2014-05-04 02:09:35 PM  

clancifer: Notabunny: fta Anyone "who has authority of the sword, is the ruler of a city, or wears the purple" has to resign his job or leave.

Aaaaand then they decapitated his whole family. You don't want to say 'no' to people who have authority of the sword. Just ask Vince Foster and Chris Stevens.

I'm not asking any zombies.


I asked a bunch of zombies once.  They were pretty cryptic with their answer: "No one ever spoke to  Noah.They all laughed at him instead. Working on his ark, working all by himself."  Useless, so I told them to hide their faces.
 
2014-05-04 02:10:09 PM  

jake_lex: I love how right-wingers are all about "GUBBMIT SHOULD STAY OUT OF THE FREE MARKET" until the free market tells someone it has a problem with them being a bigot.


No, no, that's just the patriarchal government pushing the gay agenda.  The free market has no problem with bigotry, because the people have no problem with bigotry.

Real Americans know this.
 
2014-05-04 02:12:29 PM  
I guess this makes sense, as there are not many other qualities the GOP can appeal to with its base, other than they being nearly all WHITE (so talk about race) and nearly all CHRISTIAN (so talk about fake religious persecution).

Just ignore all the other Democratic/independent white christians everywhere else, they'll ignore your nonsense.
 
2014-05-04 02:12:54 PM  

phenn: Showed up on my FB feed:


Staged photo.  Obviously dead babies.
 
2014-05-04 02:14:59 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Look, the Free Speech Commandment says a person should be able to be a religious bigot and exclude anyone they want, and people who don't like it should still do business with them because it's his right to be a bigot and not to be judged for it.

It's the American way.


No one had any problem with bigotry for the last two hundred years!

Except for those people who weren't people.

This is a radical change in American life.
 
2014-05-04 02:16:24 PM  

gja: Apos: [disjointedthinking.jeffhughes.ca image 350x262]

/Oblig

Just an FYI, to be fair and full disclosure that graphic is only correct for the USA, not the world.



*nodding* That goes without saying.
 
2014-05-04 02:18:13 PM  

b0rg9: JoshTheTech: I wish I had a gay lifestyle, unfortunately my lifestyle is depressing.

You could, however, have a gay agenda...

[pbs.twimg.com image 432x574]


Lesbians are the good gays in the eyes of the Anti-Homo crowd. They make the porn they admit to looking at.
 
2014-05-04 02:19:14 PM  

ElLoco: ecmoRandomNumbers: FirstNationalBastard: Ah, the gay bogeyman.

He only hides under beds that have at least 1000 thread count sheets on them.

Nah. We gays know that over 600 is redundant and unnecessary. 600-count Egyptian cotton sateen is heavenly.

Yea, well you're missing out. I've got 1000-counts on my beds and wouldn't give them up. Also, I'm not gay, so that may skew my 'sheet feel' receptors.


Eh. I realized a few years ago that I actually prefer crisp sheets to satiny soft ones, so I don't go over 300 any more. It can be kinda hard to find good construction in that range, though.
 
2014-05-04 02:21:17 PM  
HOMOWNED
 
2014-05-04 02:21:41 PM  

archichris: Read up on the tactics that the Mafia uses to extort protection money and then read up on the tactics terrorists use to change public opinion or policy.....

Then read up on the tactics the LGBT activists use against Christians.

Its a scary parallel.

You know who else.... nah never mind, you arent reading anymore anyway.


Thats it right there. Activists. Someone up thread was saying something bla bla bla "fair amount of the population" bla bla bla. LGBT are not even close. Tiny minority. But the way people talk its seems like 50/50 at this point.
 
2014-05-04 02:23:18 PM  

Skirl Hutsenreiter: ElLoco: ecmoRandomNumbers: FirstNationalBastard: Ah, the gay bogeyman.

He only hides under beds that have at least 1000 thread count sheets on them.

Nah. We gays know that over 600 is redundant and unnecessary. 600-count Egyptian cotton sateen is heavenly.

Yea, well you're missing out. I've got 1000-counts on my beds and wouldn't give them up. Also, I'm not gay, so that may skew my 'sheet feel' receptors.

Eh. I realized a few years ago that I actually prefer crisp sheets to satiny soft ones, so I don't go over 300 any more. It can be kinda hard to find good construction in that range, though.


I found some old military hospital sheets that are thick and crisp. Now only great to sleep on but will last forever compared to these soft satiny ones.
 
2014-05-04 02:24:20 PM  

The Lone Gunman: So, let me get this straight...We don't want to serve gay people, so gay people are taking their business elsewhere and that's not fair.

That can't be right.  Seriously, it can't be.


That sounds about right.  What would be fair would be if the gay people would just stop being gay so that they can spend their money there.  That way everyone is happy.

I think.  It's hard to get into that mindset.
 
2014-05-04 02:25:02 PM  
Gyrfalcon
Look, the Free Speech Commandment says a person should be able to be a religious bigot and exclude anyone they want, and people who don't like it should still do business with them because it's his right to be a bigot and not to be judged for it.
It's the American way.


Per the article:
In a recent fundraising email, the president of the American Family Association, Tim Wildmon, warned his mailing list that the number of careers available to conscientious Christians "is quickly shrinking as homosexuals pro-actively seek opportunities to wreck the personal business and career of any Christian who declines to support the gay lifestyle." The professions now prohibited by homosexual activism? Photographer, Baker, Florist, Broadcaster, Counselor, Innkeeper, and Teacher. (Not included: Host on Bravo.)

I am all for the right to think differently. I Believe people should have the right to belong to the KKK and have freedom of speech, and thought for that matter.

But when a KKK bakery owner does not want to sell his cakes to black people, that might cross the line.

Why should a Christian bakery owner be able to refuse to bake a cake for a gay couple?

It is called separating one's personal life and one's business life.

Or they could try reading other parts of the bible. too.
 
2014-05-04 02:26:28 PM  

hubiestubert: It's not limiting the career options of Christians, but limiting the career options for asshats.

You want to be a bigot and an asshat, who limits their market by excluding a fair amount of the population, yeah, you're looking at cutting your own damn throat, and it's self selecting your own career demise. That's freedom, baby.


How about, oh say, donating money to support support traditional marriage, gun ownership, school vouchers, anti-minimum-wage, or any of the other left-wing bêtes noires? Should such people be hounded out of careers because only asshats support such things? And if some group on the opposite side of the political spectrum feels the  supporters of  climate change legislation should be removed from the public square and their high-profile jobs, is that okay with you? Is the modern equivalent of witch-burning what you want as the new paradigm?
 
2014-05-04 02:26:45 PM  

Kuta: b0rg9:

You could, however, have a gay agenda...

Dayum! It only takes 15 minutes to break up a heterosexual man-woman marriage?!

Nuclear family is under attack!!


Have you SEEN the divorce rate?  That 15 minutes probably includes a stop for a lowfat half-caf.  It's like toppling a game of Jenga being played on a ship in a storm.
 
2014-05-04 02:27:59 PM  
Xians...

img.fark.net
 
2014-05-04 02:28:09 PM  

Por que tan serioso: archichris: Read up on the tactics that the Mafia uses to extort protection money and then read up on the tactics terrorists use to change public opinion or policy.....

Then read up on the tactics the LGBT activists use against Christians.

Its a scary parallel.

You know who else.... nah never mind, you arent reading anymore anyway.

Thats it right there. Activists. Someone up thread was saying something bla bla bla "fair amount of the population" bla bla bla. LGBT are not even close. Tiny minority. But the way people talk its seems like 50/50 at this point.


Because the only people who care about marriage equality are LGBTs. See Einstein this is why everyone thinks you guys are bigoted pieces of shiat. But really really terrible try.
 
2014-05-04 02:29:45 PM  
Gyrfalcon
Look, the Free Speech Commandment says a person should be able to be a religious bigot and exclude anyone they want, and people who don't like it should still do business with them because it's his right to be a bigot and not to be judged for it.
It's the American way.


Your message was more subtle then I originally understood.
 
2014-05-04 02:30:52 PM  
Oh good. The plan is working.

/eleventy *smirk*
 
2014-05-04 02:31:12 PM  

The Lone Gunman: So, let me get this straight...We don't want to serve gay people, so gay people are taking their business elsewhere and that's not fair.

That can't be right.  Seriously, it can't be.


I think it's more like "We don't want to serve gay people, and gay people taking their business elsewhere is fine with us. But people who don't agree with us that gays should be discriminated against are also taking their business elsewhere, and there are so many of them that it is actually hurting our business, and that's not fair." I think what really gets their goats is that so many non-gay people disagree with their beliefs about how to treat gay people and are willing to act on that disagreement. They can't comprehend that non-gay people could stand up for the fair treatment of gay people without somehow being coerced into it by a gay mafia with a gay agenda.

Or, for the short version, "We aren't the majority we thought we were, and that's not fair" with a side helping of "we are entitled to other people's money".
 
2014-05-04 02:32:21 PM  

hubiestubert: It's not limiting the career options of Christians, but limiting the career options for asshats.

You want to be a bigot and an asshat, who limits their market by excluding a fair amount of the population, yeah, you're looking at cutting your own damn throat, and it's self selecting your own career demise. That's freedom, baby.


THIS!
 
2014-05-04 02:34:26 PM  

jjorsett: hubiestubert: It's not limiting the career options of Christians, but limiting the career options for asshats.

You want to be a bigot and an asshat, who limits their market by excluding a fair amount of the population, yeah, you're looking at cutting your own damn throat, and it's self selecting your own career demise. That's freedom, baby.

How about, oh say, donating money to support support traditional marriage, gun ownership, school vouchers, anti-minimum-wage, or any of the other left-wing bêtes noires? Should such people be hounded out of careers because only asshats support such things? And if some group on the opposite side of the political spectrum feels the  supporters of  climate change legislation should be removed from the public square and their high-profile jobs, is that okay with you? Is the modern equivalent of witch-burning what you want as the new paradigm?


Stupid gotcha is stupid.
 
2014-05-04 02:36:11 PM  
They still have options:
Construction worker
Police officer
Biker
Indian chief

AW, DAMN IT!
 
2014-05-04 02:36:43 PM  
Have they tried not being Christian? It's not like they were born that way, what with their original sin and all.
 
2014-05-04 02:38:37 PM  

jjorsett: hubiestubert: It's not limiting the career options of Christians, but limiting the career options for asshats.

You want to be a bigot and an asshat, who limits their market by excluding a fair amount of the population, yeah, you're looking at cutting your own damn throat, and it's self selecting your own career demise. That's freedom, baby.

How about, oh say, donating money to support support traditional marriage, gun ownership, school vouchers, anti-minimum-wage, or any of the other left-wing bêtes noires? Should such people be hounded out of careers because only asshats support such things? And if some group on the opposite side of the political spectrum feels the  supporters of  climate change legislation should be removed from the public square and their high-profile jobs, is that okay with you? Is the modern equivalent of witch-burning what you want as the new paradigm?


Dude you are like the all time world champion of butthurt whinging. There is no outrage large or small that doesn't inspire you to turn on the water works. Bravo.....
 
2014-05-04 02:39:38 PM  

vpb: Considering how they tried to wreck the personal business and careers of gays and everyone else on the long list of people they hate, I wouldn't have a problem with that even if it were true.


Makes you wonder if they see the irony in being manhandled by the same people they've been persecuting since...for-farking EVAR?
Nah. It's only persecution when it happens to them.
 
2014-05-04 02:41:54 PM  
They completely missed bankers.
Leviticus 25:37 - Thou shalt not give him thy money upon usury, nor lend him thy victuals for increase.
 
2014-05-04 02:44:49 PM  

jjorsett: hubiestubert: It's not limiting the career options of Christians, but limiting the career options for asshats.

You want to be a bigot and an asshat, who limits their market by excluding a fair amount of the population, yeah, you're looking at cutting your own damn throat, and it's self selecting your own career demise. That's freedom, baby.

How about, oh say, donating money to support support traditional marriage, gun ownership, school vouchers, anti-minimum-wage, or any of the other left-wing bêtes noires? Should such people be hounded out of careers because only asshats support such things? And if some group on the opposite side of the political spectrum feels the  supporters of  climate change legislation should be removed from the public square and their high-profile jobs, is that okay with you? Is the modern equivalent of witch-burning what you want as the new paradigm?


Why do you hate the free market?
 
2014-05-04 02:45:23 PM  

The Lone Gunman: So, let me get this straight...We don't want to serve gay people, so gay people are taking their business elsewhere and that's not fair.


Exactly. The dirty turd buglars are supposed to sit right there and be bullied and yelled at, because Jesus.
 
2014-05-04 02:46:05 PM  

ciberido: clancifer: Notabunny: fta Anyone "who has authority of the sword, is the ruler of a city, or wears the purple" has to resign his job or leave.

Aaaaand then they decapitated his whole family. You don't want to say 'no' to people who have authority of the sword. Just ask Vince Foster and Chris Stevens.

I'm not asking any zombies.

I asked a bunch of zombies once.  They were pretty cryptic with their answer: "No one ever spoke to  Noah.They all laughed at him instead. Working on his ark, working all by himself."  Useless, so I told them to hide their faces.


Thank you for this.
 
2014-05-04 02:46:52 PM  
jjorsett: but it's my divine right as stated in the Constitution to be a lout and a bigot, and to deliberately insult people at any time and for any reason!! Only I have rights, it says so in the Bible! How dare anyone oppress me!
 
2014-05-04 02:49:31 PM  

archichris: Read up on the tactics that the Mafia uses to extort protection money and then read up on the tactics terrorists use to change public opinion or policy.....

Then read up on the tactics the LGBT activists use against Christians.

Its a scary parallel.

You know who else.... nah never mind, you arent reading anymore anyway.


When you go immediately to "GAY MAFIA!!!" territory, no, I reckon not.
 
2014-05-04 02:51:35 PM  
Number of careers available to Christians Americans "is quickly shrinking as homosexuals Mexicans seek opportunities to wreck the personal business and career of any Christian American who declines to support the gay illegal immigrant lifestyle." This is bad good news for florists landscape companies
 
2014-05-04 02:52:53 PM  
Here's the thing that gets me about gay opponents. They're all so "up in your face" about their "disapproval" of homosexuality. They have to broadcast it everywhere they go. They put it on their bumper stickers, they wear it on their t-shirts, or they pin it to themselves on a button. They just refuse to keep their lifestyles to themselves.

I don't care if people want to disapprove of homosexuality in the privacy of their own homes. Whatever revolting things they want to do on their own time in their own place is fine.

But if you decide to flaunt your perverted gay hate everywhere you go, don't be surprised when there are consequences. Don't be surprised if employers don't want anything to do with you. Don't be surprised if your normal friends with good morals abandon you. Don't be surprised if even your own family rejects you.

Keep your gay hate in the closet where it belongs.
 
2014-05-04 02:53:56 PM  
upload.wikimedia.org

XPNs, truly my heart bleeds for you ...
 
2014-05-04 02:58:45 PM  

TheHighlandHowler: Meh.  If you want to limit yourself to ChickFillet or HobbyLobby, be my guest.  (Sorry about the spelling-never been to either.)


You are missing out : (
 
2014-05-04 03:02:43 PM  

TV's Vinnie: hubiestubert: It's not limiting the career options of Christians, but limiting the career options for asshats.

You want to be a bigot and an asshat, who limits their market by excluding a fair amount of the population, yeah, you're looking at cutting your own damn throat, and it's self selecting your own career demise. That's freedom, baby.

THIS!


Because sometimes the "invisible hand" of the free market has to slap a biatch.

Stephen_Falken: Number of careers available to Christians Americans "is quickly shrinking as homosexuals Mexicans seek opportunities to wreck the personal business and career of any Christian American who declines to support the gay illegal immigrant lifestyle." This is bad good news for florists landscape companies


Nice fungibility test.
 
2014-05-04 03:05:58 PM  
Religion has been practicing repression for centuries now...a little turnabout seems fair.
 
2014-05-04 03:06:17 PM  
A Christian should be known by their actions especially in the business world. Taking care of all customers is the mark of a good Christian business.

What happen to judging a business of the quality and fairness of their product/service and not their beliefs.
 
2014-05-04 03:07:44 PM  

phenn: Showed up on my FB feed:

[i.imgur.com image 450x450]

All the hatred towards people who are different from us is learned behavior. Not in any way born or organic.

Unlearn that shiat and live free ya bunch of farkwits.


I beg to differ.

Racism IS INBORN BEHAVIOR!  Like most every other category, racism is not an "either/or" dichotomy.  It's a continuum.  In reality, everyone is racist to some degree.

You have to UN LEARN racism.  Natural selection dictates that you be wary of creatures that look different from you.  It's a survival mechanism.  People you recognize are safe.  The more different they look than your own tribe, the more wary you should be.  That leads to racism.

People have to learn that we are all the same species sharing the same big ball.  And many children DO learn this at a young age (should be " . . .  ALL children . . .").

We are all one tribe.
 
2014-05-04 03:08:57 PM  

gaslight: Bigots should go back to where they came from.


The gay bar they sneak into after 10PM?
 
2014-05-04 03:10:09 PM  

archichris: Read up on the tactics that the Mafia uses to extort protection money and then read up on the tactics terrorists use to change public opinion or policy.....

Then read up on the tactics the LGBT activists use against Christians.

Its a scary parallel.


Let's say I'm willing to believe you for a minute.  How exactly should I "read up on the tactics the LGBT activists use against Christians"?  You didn't provide me any helpful links, so I should just Google "tactics the LGBT activists use against Christians" and see what turns up?  Hmm, ok, so that gets me a story from christianpost.com  and one from "Americans for Truth about Homosexuality,"  both about that Sweet Cakes by Melissa place that ran into trouble for refusing to serve a lesbian couple.  Those are the top hits.  Mmmm, clearly those websites are very biased.

Well, here's an article from LBGTQ Nation that covers the same story.  It, like the other two stories also reports that the owners of Sweet Cakes by Melissa  claim that gay activists used "mafia-like tactics."  It also points out that these are merely claims, and that the owners won't detail them or offer any actual evidence besides the van thing.

So, my question is, are gay activists using "Mafia-like tactics" except in this one story?  And is there any actual evidence of it at all anywhere?  Or is it just one person's unsubstantiated and nebulous claim?
 
2014-05-04 03:10:35 PM  

ScaryBottles: Por que tan serioso: Thats it right there. Activists. Someone up thread was saying something bla bla bla "fair amount of the population" bla bla bla. LGBT are not even close. Tiny minority. But the way people talk its seems like 50/50 at this point.

Because the only people who care about marriage equality are LGBTs. See Einstein this is why everyone thinks you guys are bigoted pieces of shiat. But really really terrible try.


Exactly. I'm a heterosexual woman. I'm married to a heterosexual man. We have a baby, and we plan to make another. Hey, we're even white (Dutch and Irish genes make for very pale babies).  And you know what? I support marriage equality. I voted against Prop 8, and I have no plans to eat at Chik-Fil-A.

Yes, I have gay friends (including two who just got married, with Latrice Royale officiating!), but it shouldn't even matterthat it affects people close to me. I support homosexual marriage because I'm human and believe in equality under the law.

So, no. It's not a tiny minority of activists who these businesses are alienating. It's people like me, as well.
 
2014-05-04 03:15:36 PM  

Forty-Two: ScaryBottles: Por que tan serioso: Thats it right there. Activists. Someone up thread was saying something bla bla bla "fair amount of the population" bla bla bla. LGBT are not even close. Tiny minority. But the way people talk its seems like 50/50 at this point.

Because the only people who care about marriage equality are LGBTs. See Einstein this is why everyone thinks you guys are bigoted pieces of shiat. But really really terrible try.

Exactly. I'm a heterosexual woman. I'm married to a heterosexual man. We have a baby, and we plan to make another. Hey, we're even white (Dutch and Irish genes make for very pale babies).  And you know what? I support marriage equality. I voted against Prop 8, and I have no plans to eat at Chik-Fil-A.

Yes, I have gay friends (including two who just got married, with Latrice Royale officiating!), but it shouldn't even matterthat it affects people close to me. I support homosexual marriage because I'm human and believe in equality under the law.

So, no. It's not a tiny minority of activists who these businesses are alienating. It's people like me, as well.


Thats awesome I personally would have tried to get Sharon Needles. Season 4 FTW!

Straight male living in sin/
 
2014-05-04 03:21:25 PM  

phenn: Showed up on my FB feed:

[i.imgur.com image 450x450]

All the hatred towards people who are different from us is learned behavior. Not in any way born or organic.

Unlearn that shiat and live free ya bunch of farkwits.


They have to be carefully taught.
 
2014-05-04 03:22:06 PM  

Baz744: Here's the thing that gets me about gay opponents. They're all so "up in your face" about their "disapproval" of homosexuality. They have to broadcast it everywhere they go. They put it on their bumper stickers, they wear it on their t-shirts, or they pin it to themselves on a button. They just refuse to keep their lifestyles to themselves.

I don't care if people want to disapprove of homosexuality in the privacy of their own homes. Whatever revolting things they want to do on their own time in their own place is fine.

But if you decide to flaunt your perverted gay hate everywhere you go, don't be surprised when there are consequences. Don't be surprised if employers don't want anything to do with you. Don't be surprised if your normal friends with good morals abandon you. Don't be surprised if even your own family rejects you.

Keep your gay hate in the closet where it belongs.


Beautiful.
 
2014-05-04 03:25:20 PM  

Forty-Two: ScaryBottles: Por que tan serioso: Thats it right there. Activists. Someone up thread was saying something bla bla bla "fair amount of the population" bla bla bla. LGBT are not even close. Tiny minority. But the way people talk its seems like 50/50 at this point.

Because the only people who care about marriage equality are LGBTs. See Einstein this is why everyone thinks you guys are bigoted pieces of shiat. But really really terrible try.

Exactly. I'm a heterosexual woman. I'm married to a heterosexual man. We have a baby, and we plan to make another. Hey, we're even white (Dutch and Irish genes make for very pale babies).  And you know what? I support marriage equality. I voted against Prop 8, and I have no plans to eat at Chik-Fil-A.

Yes, I have gay friends (including two who just got married, with Latrice Royale officiating!), but it shouldn't even matterthat it affects people close to me. I support homosexual marriage because I'm human and believe in equality under the law.

So, no. It's not a tiny minority of activists who these businesses are alienating. It's people like me, as well.


Why isn't everyone like this? (At least it's now a growing majority).

It's basic common sense, like the Golden Rule.  Jesus even taught this type of attitude.

But ironically, the anti-gay crowd is predominantly "Christian".
 
2014-05-04 03:26:03 PM  
There are plenty of jobs for outspoken fundy christians in the containing and transporting of vinegary water industry.
 
2014-05-04 03:26:43 PM  

Waldo Pepper: A Christian should be known by their actions especially in the business world. Taking care of all customers is the mark of a good Christian business.

What happen to judging a business of the quality and fairness of their product/service and not their beliefs.


When Christians decided they were going to preach morality onto the rest of society and vote for discriminating laws.
 
2014-05-04 03:27:32 PM  
I dont care if you are christian or gay just go to work and do your damn job. And no I dont want to know about your personal life. So far this year at work I've been given 3 cards by christians to go to their church. None of the gay people have tried to convert me. Guess I dont dress that well.
 
2014-05-04 03:32:35 PM  
It's very true. As a raging homosexual, I've personally destroyed several Christian businesses and I've seen to it that hundreds of Christians have lost their jobs. The problem isn't so much that we hate Christians, which we do, trust me, it's just that for every Christian business we shut down, our penis gets an inch bigger. And for every Christian we get fired, another pleasure nerve develops in our anal sphincter. You really can't compete with biology, so I'd recommend you just try to relax, and I promise I'll be gentle.
 
2014-05-04 03:32:46 PM  
Por que tan serioso:Thats it right there. Activists. Someone up thread was saying something bla bla bla "fair amount of the population" bla bla bla. LGBT are not even close. Tiny minority. But the way people talk its seems like 50/50 at this point.

It IS about 50/50 in the USA now, if you're talking about poll results.  The number of ACTIVISTS is less than 50% of people eligible to vote in the USA, of course.  But that's a completely different thing.

Actually it looks like approval of same-sex marriage is already past 50%.  In some sense, the battle is already over. At most those of you opposed to gay marriage are merely delaying the inevitable at this point.
 
2014-05-04 03:35:48 PM  

Bob Robert: Waldo Pepper: A Christian should be known by their actions especially in the business world. Taking care of all customers is the mark of a good Christian business.

What happen to judging a business of the quality and fairness of their product/service and not their beliefs.

When Christians decided they were going to preach morality onto the rest of society and vote for discriminating laws.


it's not just Christians.  Those who won't eat at Chick-fil-a because of the owners beliefs and yet by all accounts the stores treat their employees well and they provide excellent service to their customers. Better than average for their industry. 

I'm sure there other examples besides Chick-fil-a but it is the easiest to use. 

maybe i'm too naive on this issue.  Do you have the product/service i want or need and will you provide it a a fair price. Yes.good I'll buy, no okay I'll keep looking.
 
2014-05-04 03:36:48 PM  
1. Limit your customer base by being an asshat and discriminating against potential customers because you believe your religious book tells you to
2. Realize that other potential customers don't like it when you discriminate, even if you're not discriminating against them, and stay away from your business


3. Profit????

You want the free market? There it is. In a free market people get to choose where to spend their money, and if you're an asshat they won't spend their money on what you have to sell. Welcome to the b*tchsmacking invisible hand.
 
2014-05-04 03:38:29 PM  

phenn: Showed up on my FB feed:

[i.imgur.com image 450x450]

All the hatred towards people who are different from us is learned behavior. Not in any way born or organic.

Unlearn that shiat and live free ya bunch of farkwits.



Unfortunately, I believe, not true.  Discrimination against groups that are "unlike" one's own is instinctive behavior - except for mating (to promote genetic diversity).  Both are traits that promote the survival of one's own group.
 
2014-05-04 03:41:13 PM  
Should kosher deli's be forced to sell me a ham sandwich?

Should the black owned dry cleaners be forced to launder my hood and robe?
 
2014-05-04 03:43:17 PM  

DrBenway: archichris: Read up on the tactics that the Mafia uses to extort protection money and then read up on the tactics terrorists use to change public opinion or policy.....

Then read up on the tactics the LGBT activists use against Christians.

Its a scary parallel.

You know who else.... nah never mind, you arent reading anymore anyway.

When you go immediately to "GAY MAFIA!!!" territory, no, I reckon not.


Everyone knows it's not the Gay Mafia you have to worry about, anyway.  It's the Gay Bandidos (nsfw) who destroy American families.
 
2014-05-04 03:43:56 PM  
it's getting hard to be a bigot.
 
2014-05-04 03:46:21 PM  

archichris: Read up on the tactics that the Mafia uses to extort protection money and then read up on the tactics terrorists use to change public opinion or policy.....

Then read up on the tactics the LGBT activists use against Christians.

Its a scary parallel.

You know who else.... nah never mind, you arent reading anymore anyway.


SAUL ALINSKY!
 
2014-05-04 03:47:18 PM  

Waldo Pepper: Bob Robert: Waldo Pepper: A Christian should be known by their actions especially in the business world. Taking care of all customers is the mark of a good Christian business.

What happen to judging a business of the quality and fairness of their product/service and not their beliefs.

When Christians decided they were going to preach morality onto the rest of society and vote for discriminating laws.

it's not just Christians.  Those who won't eat at Chick-fil-a because of the owners beliefs and yet by all accounts the stores treat their employees well and they provide excellent service to their customers. Better than average for their industry.

I'm sure there other examples besides Chick-fil-a but it is the easiest to use.

maybe i'm too naive on this issue.  Do you have the product/service i want or need and will you provide it a a fair price. Yes.good I'll buy, no okay I'll keep looking.

You don't sound naive, you sound like an apologist.
 
2014-05-04 03:48:03 PM  
A lot of Christians used to support racism and segregation based off Biblical beliefs too.  (Curse of Ham and all that.)  Same argument -- "by not letting us be racist you're going to wipe us out."

In other words:  they'll get over it, and then pretend it never happened.
 
2014-05-04 03:48:47 PM  
DreamyAltarBoy:
Because sometimes the "invisible hand" of the free market has to slap a biatch.

Or in this case, give it a reach-around.
 
2014-05-04 03:48:58 PM  

RottenEggs: TheHighlandHowler: Meh.  If you want to limit yourself to ChickFillet or HobbyLobby, be my guest.  (Sorry about the spelling-never been to either.)

You are missing out : (


I have to admit that Chick-Fil-A's food is pretty damn tasty, at least as far as fast food goes.  Heck, it's just tasty, period.  And their lemonade is awesome.

There's one pretty close to where I live and it's been really tempting to go inside and get some food.  I haven't had any in quite a while now.
 
2014-05-04 03:51:05 PM  
groppet: I dont care if you are christian or gay just go to work and do your damn job. And no I dont want to know about your personal life. .

Yuuup. I've had dozens of gay coworkers, and dozens more straight and/or christian. All I ever gave a shiat about was if someone could do their job without dying or annoying me.
 
2014-05-04 03:52:49 PM  
Basic problem for these guys is that they see enthusiasm for xity slipping away, the influence of xity slipping away, and they can't understand why everyone else doesn't share their worldview.

Because they are infallibly correct, they look for external explanations - someone to blame - rather than look at all the reasons (thinking) people find xity unattractive.
 
2014-05-04 03:53:52 PM  

Waldo Pepper: A Christian should be known by their actions especially in the business world. Taking care of all customers is the mark of a good Christian business.

What happen to judging a business of the quality and fairness of their product/service and not their beliefs.


:)

I usually don't dig you dude but that was very classy and well said indeed. I sincerely appreciate that.

*pops an ice cold beer for Waldo Pepper*
 
2014-05-04 03:54:01 PM  
uhhm, whut?
 
2014-05-04 03:55:00 PM  

ScaryBottles: Waldo Pepper: Bob Robert: Waldo Pepper: A Christian should be known by their actions especially in the business world. Taking care of all customers is the mark of a good Christian business.

What happen to judging a business of the quality and fairness of their product/service and not their beliefs.

When Christians decided they were going to preach morality onto the rest of society and vote for discriminating laws.

it's not just Christians.  Those who won't eat at Chick-fil-a because of the owners beliefs and yet by all accounts the stores treat their employees well and they provide excellent service to their customers. Better than average for their industry.

I'm sure there other examples besides Chick-fil-a but it is the easiest to use.

maybe i'm too naive on this issue.  Do you have the product/service i want or need and will you provide it a a fair price. Yes.good I'll buy, no okay I'll keep looking.
You don't sound naive, you sound like an apologist.


how does that make me an apologist?
 
2014-05-04 03:56:38 PM  

Kittypie070: Waldo Pepper: A Christian should be known by their actions especially in the business world. Taking care of all customers is the mark of a good Christian business.

What happen to judging a business of the quality and fairness of their product/service and not their beliefs.

:)

I usually don't dig you dude but that was very classy and well said indeed. I sincerely appreciate that.

*pops an ice cold beer for Waldo Pepper*


thank you and I'll take this as a sign to quit while I"m ahead lol
 
2014-05-04 03:57:39 PM  
Chill out y'all and have some beer.

*pops a beer for Scary Bottles*
 
2014-05-04 04:00:53 PM  

Waldo Pepper: ScaryBottles: Waldo Pepper: Bob Robert: Waldo Pepper: A Christian should be known by their actions especially in the business world. Taking care of all customers is the mark of a good Christian business.

What happen to judging a business of the quality and fairness of their product/service and not their beliefs.

When Christians decided they were going to preach morality onto the rest of society and vote for discriminating laws.

it's not just Christians.  Those who won't eat at Chick-fil-a because of the owners beliefs and yet by all accounts the stores treat their employees well and they provide excellent service to their customers. Better than average for their industry.

I'm sure there other examples besides Chick-fil-a but it is the easiest to use.

maybe i'm too naive on this issue.  Do you have the product/service i want or need and will you provide it a a fair price. Yes.good I'll buy, no okay I'll keep looking.
You don't sound naive, you sound like an apologist.

how does that make me an apologist?


I think I misunderstood what you were trying to say.
 
2014-05-04 04:01:14 PM  

Waldo Pepper: Bob Robert: Waldo Pepper: A Christian should be known by their actions especially in the business world. Taking care of all customers is the mark of a good Christian business.

What happen to judging a business of the quality and fairness of their product/service and not their beliefs.

When Christians decided they were going to preach morality onto the rest of society and vote for discriminating laws.

it's not just Christians.  Those who won't eat at Chick-fil-a because of the owners beliefs and yet by all accounts the stores treat their employees well and they provide excellent service to their customers. Better than average for their industry. 

I'm sure there other examples besides Chick-fil-a but it is the easiest to use. 

maybe i'm too naive on this issue.  Do you have the product/service i want or need and will you provide it a a fair price. Yes.good I'll buy, no okay I'll keep looking.


There's a screaming difference here. As far as I know Chick-fil-a doesn't refuse service to people based on sexual orientation. I might eat there if it were convenient. I don't approve of the owner's stance on same sex marriage, but he has a right to his opinion. When you refuse service based on sexual orientation, or because you disapprove of same sex marriage, you have gone from being one bigot amoung many and crossed the line into active persecution.
 
2014-05-04 04:02:39 PM  
Okay: I can't bake your cake because I have a conflict with the date

Not okay: I could bake your cake, but I am not going to because what you are doing is an abomination in the the eyes of the Lord.

Note that the first option does not state what type of conflict or any specifics. The conflict with the date may be, "Your getting married conflicts with my morals." But, it is polite. What these Christians want is the ability to insult you and lecture you about your sex life hiding behind their "religion."
 
2014-05-04 04:03:34 PM  

cchris_39: Should kosher deli's be forced to sell me a ham sandwich?

Should the black owned dry cleaners be forced to launder my hood and robe?


Should you post online?
 
2014-05-04 04:04:13 PM  

b0rg9: JoshTheTech: I wish I had a gay lifestyle, unfortunately my lifestyle is depressing.

You could, however, have a gay agenda...

[pbs.twimg.com image 432x574]


Fark me running, really? That is so agenda-like, I mean really, WTF? Dang.

Wa-wa-waaaa.
 
2014-05-04 04:06:55 PM  

Waldo Pepper: Bob Robert: Waldo Pepper: A Christian should be known by their actions especially in the business world. Taking care of all customers is the mark of a good Christian business.

What happen to judging a business of the quality and fairness of their product/service and not their beliefs.

When Christians decided they were going to preach morality onto the rest of society and vote for discriminating laws.

it's not just Christians.  Those who won't eat at Chick-fil-a because of the owners beliefs and yet by all accounts the stores treat their employees well and they provide excellent service to their customers. Better than average for their industry.

I'm sure there other examples besides Chick-fil-a but it is the easiest to use.

maybe i'm too naive on this issue.


Well, you're either ignorant or dishonest.  That much is certain.  But I'm willing to go with ignorant.

The issue with Chick-Fil-A, as has been explained in EVERY SINGLE fark thread where the name was mentioned, is that it went beyond beliefs and even beyond public statements.  Chik-Fil-A was (and so far as I know, still us) taking the profits they got from selling their food and using it (via an clearinghouse called "the WinShape Foundation") to fund a number of organizations who oppress gays, even to the point of supporting an organization in Uganda that was attempting to instate the death penalty for homosexuality.

There are other issues as well, but that's the one most people focus on.

And yes, they've backed down some since 2012.  They're not really actively trying to oppress gay people they way they once were.  But it's still false to claim that it's purely about someone's beliefs.
 
2014-05-04 04:07:47 PM  
That 'dig' there at the end should be another 'dick'.
 
2014-05-04 04:09:34 PM  

cchris_39: Should kosher deli's be forced to sell me a ham sandwich?


If they're selling ham sandwiches to other people, then yes, they should.  Is that the hypothetical situation you were thinking of?
 
2014-05-04 04:11:01 PM  

RabidRythmDivas: phenn: Showed up on my FB feed:

[i.imgur.com image 450x450]

All the hatred towards people who are different from us is learned behavior. Not in any way born or organic.

Unlearn that shiat and live free ya bunch of farkwits.

I beg to differ.

Racism IS INBORN BEHAVIOR!  Like most every other category, racism is not an "either/or" dichotomy.  It's a continuum.  In reality, everyone is racist to some degree.

You have to UN LEARN racism.  Natural selection dictates that you be wary of creatures that look different from you.  It's a survival mechanism.  People you recognize are safe.  The more different they look than your own tribe, the more wary you should be.  That leads to racism.

People have to learn that we are all the same species sharing the same big ball.  And many children DO learn this at a young age (should be " . . .  ALL children . . .").

We are all one tribe.


I just want some help getting my lily white kids to understand they simply cannot utter some words.  I don't care that every rapper sings it right out loud, you can't call women sluts, biatches, hoes, coonts, and you can't call other people names they use in their conversations.  I know it's a form of teenage rebellion (you can't make me listen to your music, Mom), but when even my co-workers are complaining about getting their kids (who look a lot closer to most rappers) to not use the foul abusive language, it's time to find some new words or music or something.  I'll keep my beliefs to myself and the entertainment industry can quit glorifying disrespect for others through denigration, and calling it art.
 
2014-05-04 04:15:16 PM  

thismomentinblackhistory: cchris_39: Should kosher deli's be forced to sell me a ham sandwich?

Should the black owned dry cleaners be forced to launder my hood and robe?

Should you post online?


Just looking for other people's opinions. For the record, I don't have a hood but got the idea from this guy:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M8t04muNIdw
 
2014-05-04 04:16:11 PM  

JoieD'Zen: Mr. Coffee Nerves: I'm much more afraid of getting farked in the ass by a business with signs festooned by Jesus fish than I am by one with signs awash in rainbows.

Guaranf*cknteed, if they bring their disabilities, charity or religion into a business transaction, you will get screwed, or at minimum, horribly manipulated.


I see a Jesus fish, I start counting: the numbers. They're usually prosperity gospel heretics, and they're going to fark anyone who they think isn't one of the blessed.
 
2014-05-04 04:16:18 PM  

cchris_39: Should kosher deli's be forced to sell me a ham sandwich?


If ham sandwiches are on the menu, yes.

cchris_39: Should the black owned dry cleaners be forced to launder my hood and robe?


Yes, as cleaning clothes is what they do.
 
2014-05-04 04:18:54 PM  

ciberido: cchris_39: Should kosher deli's be forced to sell me a ham sandwich?

If they're selling ham sandwiches to other people, then yes, they should.  Is that the hypothetical situation you were thinking of?


I would agree that he should sell whatever he stocks to all comers but should not have to keep ham sandwiches in inventory just because a lot of people love ham sandwiches.
 
2014-05-04 04:19:10 PM  

cchris_39: thismomentinblackhistory: cchris_39: Should kosher deli's be forced to sell me a ham sandwich?

Should the black owned dry cleaners be forced to launder my hood and robe?

Should you post online?

Just looking for other people's opinions. For the record, I don't have a hood but got the idea from this guy:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=M8t04muNIdw


Well to be fair a Democrat is giving them away in WI
 
2014-05-04 04:20:02 PM  

cherryl taggart: I just want some help getting my lily white kids to understand they simply cannot utter some words.  I don't care that every rapper sings it right out loud, you can't call women sluts, biatches, hoes, coonts, and you can't call other people names they use in their conversations.  I know it's a form of teenage rebellion (you can't make me listen to your music, Mom),


I thought it was more about being edgy and daring and non-conformist, but yeah.  The more you ask them to not use the words, the more self-righteous they get about defying your wishes.  It's extremely frustrating, especially when they play the "you're too old to understand how the world works anymore" card --- which is pretty much every time you ask them to stop doing something they don't want to stop doing.
 
2014-05-04 04:21:54 PM  
Dick Eating Dick Bag of Dick Eaters

Would make a great if unwieldy name for a band composed of Richard Nixon lookalikes.
 
2014-05-04 04:22:26 PM  
Now substitute kosher deli and ham sandwiches with pharmacy and morning after pills.
 
2014-05-04 04:22:52 PM  

cchris_39: ciberido: cchris_39: Should kosher deli's be forced to sell me a ham sandwich?

If they're selling ham sandwiches to other people, then yes, they should.  Is that the hypothetical situation you were thinking of?

I would agree that he should sell whatever he stocks to all comers but should not have to keep ham sandwiches in inventory just because a lot of people love ham sandwiches.


Obviously. what is your point here? Do you think a gay wedding cake is a completely different thing from a hetero wedding cake? It's the same ingredients and making cakes is their business.
 
2014-05-04 04:23:23 PM  

cherryl taggart: I just want some help getting my lily white kids to understand they simply cannot utter some words.


Words are tools, and just like a hammer, screwdriver, etc, some tools are simply not appropriate for certain situations.  You even have highly specialized tools that are only appropriately used by specific people.

That's pretty much how I've explained it to my kid and she seemed to get it....but she won't be a teenager for another couple years, so we'll see.
 
2014-05-04 04:26:58 PM  

cchris_39: Should kosher deli's be forced to sell me a ham sandwich?

Of course not. Just as my dentist is not obligated to give me a pedicure, as much as I'd like one. It's not a service offered at that business.

Should the black owned dry cleaners be forced to launder my hood and robe? If the customer base of the black owned dry cleaners is such that refusing to launder the robe will create a backlash that will cause the business to suffer, then they should either launder the robe or accept the loss of business. They should not, however, refuse to launder the robe and then whine about the fact that their actions offended their customer base and now their business is suffering.
 
2014-05-04 04:28:22 PM  

cchris_39: Now substitute kosher deli and ham sandwiches with pharmacy and morning after pills.

Even for you this is pathetic.....
 
2014-05-04 04:29:05 PM  

Waldo Pepper: Bob Robert: Waldo Pepper: A Christian should be known by their actions especially in the business world. Taking care of all customers is the mark of a good Christian business.

What happen to judging a business of the quality and fairness of their product/service and not their beliefs.

When Christians decided they were going to preach morality onto the rest of society and vote for discriminating laws.

it's not just Christians.  Those who won't eat at Chick-fil-a because of the owners beliefs and yet by all accounts the stores treat their NON-GAY employees well and they provide excellent service to their customers. Better than average for their industry.
I'm sure there other examples besides Chick-fil-a but it is the easiest to use.
maybe i'm too naive on this issue.  Do you have the product/service i want or need and will you provide it a a fair price. Yes.good I'll buy, no okay I'll keep looking.

 
2014-05-04 04:29:47 PM  

cchris_39: Now substitute kosher deli and ham sandwiches with pharmacy and morning after pills.


I don't know how this is actually classified in reality but imo if I were in charge yes pharmacies should have to sell morning after pills because pharmacies are more like an essential service and yes they should stock all kinds of medications because medical places like pharmacies are the only places you can get pills. You can buy ham and meat elsewhere and make your own sandwiches so your analogy doesnt apply.
 
2014-05-04 04:31:47 PM  
ham and bread. I LOST A SAI!
 
2014-05-04 04:33:10 PM  

Waldo Pepper: it's not just Christians. Those who won't eat at Chick-fil-a because of the owners beliefs and yet by all accounts the stores treat their employees well and they provide excellent service to their customers. Better than average for their industry.


Yes, Chick-fil-a is very good to those employees and customers who they don't believe were born sub-human.
 
2014-05-04 04:35:37 PM  
Por que tan serioso:Thats it right there. Activists. Someone up thread was saying something bla bla bla "fair amount of the population" bla bla bla. LGBT are not even close. Tiny minority. But the way people talk its seems like 50/50 at this point.

(A) It's about 10% of any population.
(B) It doesn't farking matter if it's 1% of a population.  In the U.S., certain rights are guaranteed and not subject to popular or religious opinion. Some of those rights are explicit, some are implied (like the right of privacy), and some are societally determined, like the right to marry.
 
2014-05-04 04:42:31 PM  

Baz744: Here's the thing that gets me about gay opponents. They're all so "up in your face" about their "disapproval" of homosexuality. They have to broadcast it everywhere they go. They put it on their bumper stickers, they wear it on their t-shirts, or they pin it to themselves on a button. They just refuse to keep their lifestyles to themselves.

I don't care if people want to disapprove of homosexuality in the privacy of their own homes. Whatever revolting things they want to do on their own time in their own place is fine.

But if you decide to flaunt your perverted gay hate everywhere you go, don't be surprised when there are consequences. Don't be surprised if employers don't want anything to do with you. Don't be surprised if your normal friends with good morals abandon you. Don't be surprised if even your own family rejects you.

Keep your gay hate in the closet where it belongs.


+2 - brilliant!
 
2014-05-04 04:43:34 PM  

Waldo Pepper: Bob Robert: Waldo Pepper: A Christian should be known by their actions especially in the business world. Taking care of all customers is the mark of a good Christian business.

What happen to judging a business of the quality and fairness of their product/service and not their beliefs.

When Christians decided they were going to preach morality onto the rest of society and vote for discriminating laws.

it's not just Christians.  Those who won't eat at Chick-fil-a because of the owners beliefs and yet by all accounts the stores treat their employees well and they provide excellent service to their customers. Better than average for their industry. 

I'm sure there other examples besides Chick-fil-a but it is the easiest to use. 

maybe i'm too naive on this issue.  Do you have the product/service i want or need and will you provide it a a fair price. Yes.good I'll buy, no okay I'll keep looking.


Making a decision not to give money to a business that donates to discrimination causes is just as bad as voting in legislation that restricts someones rights? You are not naive, you are just dumb.
 
2014-05-04 04:44:23 PM  

gilgigamesh: FirstNationalBastard: gilgigamesh: Tell me about it. I can't even hang the "NO COLOREDS OR JEWS" sign God told me to put up without catching all kinds of hell.

I'm all persecuted. Just like Jesus.

You could put up a NO COLORED JEWS sign, but that would be the exact day Sammy Davis, Jr. Wanted to come in Your establishment.

No freaking way man. Colored Jewish zombies are definitely banned. Just like Jesus.


I needed that laugh. Thanks!
 
2014-05-04 04:45:33 PM  

ScaryBottles: cchris_39: Now substitute kosher deli and ham sandwiches with pharmacy and morning after pills.
Even for you this is pathetic.....


Eh, let's sit back and see how many rationalize treating the pharmacist differently.
 
2014-05-04 04:47:59 PM  

acohn: Por que tan serioso:Thats it right there. Activists. Someone up thread was saying something bla bla bla "fair amount of the population" bla bla bla. LGBT are not even close. Tiny minority. But the way people talk its seems like 50/50 at this point.

(A) It's about 10% of any population.
(B) It doesn't farking matter if it's 1% of a population.  In the U.S., certain rights are guaranteed and not subject to popular or religious opinion. Some of those rights are explicit, some are implied (like the right of privacy), and some are societally determined, like the right to marry.


I wish instead of "someone upthread" there was a quote to the post so I could see the context. If in whatever context it was used you could substitute being an ally for actually being gay then 50% is still pretty dismal.

Its like those guys who said the straight peopel are just caving to pressure and acting like theyre tolerant because gay rights are 'in right now' or whatever nonsense. It's not gay vs straight. It's respectful human beings inclusive of everyone vs dickwads.
 
2014-05-04 04:48:52 PM  

cchris_39: ciberido: cchris_39: Should kosher deli's be forced to sell me a ham sandwich?

If they're selling ham sandwiches to other people, then yes, they should.  Is that the hypothetical situation you were thinking of?

I would agree that he should sell whatever he stocks to all comers but should not have to keep ham sandwiches in inventory just because a lot of people love ham sandwiches.


I'm still trying to figure out what parallel universe we're talking about.  Is this the one where doctors prescribe sandwiches to treat medical conditions, operating a deli requires a "butcher's license," and part of getting a butcher's license involves swearing to make any sandwich for which the customer has a prescription?

Because I would think in such a universe there could not legally be any such thing as a "kosher deli."
 
2014-05-04 04:52:07 PM  

cchris_39: Should kosher deli's be forced to sell me a ham sandwich?

Should the black owned dry cleaners be forced to launder my hood and robe?


False equivalence much?

Declining to sell a product =/= declining to serve a potential customer
Declining to accommodate irrational intolerance =/= foisting bigotry on everyone
 
2014-05-04 04:53:38 PM  

cchris_39: Eh, let's sit back and see how many rationalize treating the pharmacist differently.


Are you trying to say that Democrats wouldn't care if a pharmacists refuses to issue morning after pills? Or a Jewish deli refuses to serve non kosher sandwiches? I have yet to find one conservative troll and their numerous alts actually making sense today. This is single A ball trolling.
 
2014-05-04 04:55:43 PM  

noitsnot: phenn: Showed up on my FB feed:

[i.imgur.com image 450x450]

All the hatred towards people who are different from us is learned behavior. Not in any way born or organic.

Unlearn that shiat and live free ya bunch of farkwits.


Unfortunately, I believe, not true.  Discrimination against groups that are "unlike" one's own is instinctive behavior - except for mating (to promote genetic diversity).  Both are traits that promote the survival of one's own group.


I'll nibble because I think you're being thoughtful and genuine.

We are not unlike. I'm a middle-aged white woman of Irish lineage. Let's say - for a moment - you're a 25-year old black male.

Your DNA and mine are nearly identical. We are both two-legged critters whose survival actually depends on fostering empathy.

Now, I know people who have been raised to believe that particular line of thinking. Shiat's cool and they do well in social situations. I also know people who have been raised to believe that black people, Asian people, gay people, non-christian people (whatever) will be the downfall of humanity as we know it.

For my own experiences, I think everyone I know was born with the first attitude I mention. I think the latter attitude is learned/taught/drilled into the skull. And, hey. I'm prepared to be wrong on this.

Intuitively speaking, it behooves the human species to protect its own. Not dilly-dally on who might be gay, black, short, silly looking and so forth.

That is survival. And - I think - that is what species do.

At least, I hope so.  :-)
 
2014-05-04 04:56:36 PM  
Christianity, the so-called "religion of peace and compassion" strikes again.
 
2014-05-04 05:03:58 PM  
Well, for every gay that wants to purposely wreck a Christian's livelihood out of hate, there is likely at least one Christian who will be a customer.

You don't go into an occult shop and demand they stock King James Bibles.  Likewise, if a Christian--obeying their conscience--doesn't want to be involved in your so-called "wedding," just find someone with no morals or make it yourself.

I think most people have the sense to know that these gays are just being hateful and spiteful.  "Waaahhh...we can't get these guys to tolerate our perverted lifestyle!  Let's make sure we put them out of business!"

/just disgusted right now
 
2014-05-04 05:08:52 PM  

Miss Alexandra: Well, for every gay that wants to purposely wreck a Christian's livelihood out of hate, there is likely at least one Christian who will be a customer.

You don't go into an occult shop and demand they stock King James Bibles.  Likewise, if a Christian--obeying their conscience--doesn't want to be involved in your so-called "wedding," just find someone with no morals or make it yourself.

I think most people have the sense to know that these gays are just being hateful and spiteful.  "Waaahhh...we can't get these guys to tolerate our perverted lifestyle!  Let's make sure we put them out of business!"

/just disgusted right now


This is the best post that will ever be.

Sigh, ok. It's not about tolerating lifestyles, it's about having the right to participate in public commerce.

Also how does baking a cake for a gay wedding equate into having no morals? I'd love an answer to this question.
 
2014-05-04 05:10:44 PM  

cherryl taggart: I just want some help getting my lily white kids to understand they simply cannot utter some words.


Well first off. Stop treating your farking kids like idiots.

Of COURSE they can utter them. Just not when you are around.

"Son, If you say that shiat in public and you get your ass kicked, I'm telling the police to let you cool off in the drunk tank until next monday morning."

/You give them the choice of their action, and tell them the repercussions of making the "wrong" choice.
 
2014-05-04 05:12:56 PM  
So what about an atheist that hates gay people and doesn't accept their life style?  Seems to me that these gay boogeymen could use a lesson from Jesus himself.

s-media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com
For those who despise bible quotes, try this one...
www.catholicireland.net
 
2014-05-04 05:14:24 PM  

Miss Alexandra: Well, for every gay that wants to purposely wreck a Christian's livelihood out of hate, there is likely at least one Christian who will be a customer.

You don't go into an occult shop and demand they stock King James Bibles.  Likewise, if a Christian--obeying their conscience--doesn't want to be involved in your so-called "wedding," just find someone with no morals or make it yourself.

I think most people have the sense to know that these gays are just being hateful and spiteful.  "Waaahhh...we can't get these guys to tolerate our perverted lifestyle!  Let's make sure we put them out of business!"

/just disgusted right now


Holy crap I had heard you existed but I thought it was just a myth! You're the Geocentrist housewife!

http://www.genesis-creation-proof.com/geocentricity.html

whofortedblog.com
 
2014-05-04 05:14:25 PM  

Miss Alexandra: Well, for every gay that wants to purposely wreck a Christian's livelihood out of hate, there is likely at least one Christian who will be a customer.

You don't go into an occult shop and demand they stock King James Bibles.  Likewise, if a Christian--obeying their conscience--doesn't want to be involved in your so-called "wedding," just find someone with no morals or make it yourself.

I think most people have the sense to know that these gays are just being hateful and spiteful.  "Waaahhh...we can't get these guys to tolerate our perverted lifestyle!  Let's make sure we put them out of business!"

/just disgusted right now


You sound fat.
 
2014-05-04 05:14:55 PM  

Miss Alexandra: Well, for every gay that wants to purposely wreck a Christian's livelihood out of hate, there is likely at least one Christian who will be a customer.

You don't go into an occult shop and demand they stock King James Bibles. Likewise, if a Christian--obeying their conscience--doesn't want to be involved in your so-called "wedding," just find someone with no morals or make it yourself.

I think most people have the sense to know that these gays are just being hateful and spiteful. "Waaahhh...we can't get these guys to tolerate our perverted lifestyle! Let's make sure we put them out of business!"

/just disgusted right now



These gays are being so hateful and spiteful after I try and restrict their basic rights. How dare they be so uppity?
 
2014-05-04 05:15:07 PM  

Miss Alexandra: Well, for every gay that wants to purposely wreck a Christian's livelihood out of hate, there is likely at least one Christian who will be a customer.

You don't go into an occult shop and demand they stock King James Bibles.  Likewise, if a Christian--obeying their conscience--doesn't want to be involved in your so-called "wedding," just find someone with no morals or make it yourself.

I think most people have the sense to know that these gays are just being hateful and spiteful.  "Waaahhh...we can't get these guys to tolerate our perverted lifestyle!  Let's make sure we put them out of business!"

/just disgusted right now


img.fark.net
 
2014-05-04 05:17:23 PM  

fluffy2097: cherryl taggart: I just want some help getting my lily white kids to understand they simply cannot utter some words.

Well first off. Stop treating your farking kids like idiots.

Of COURSE they can utter them. Just not when you are around.

"Son, If you say that shiat in public and you get your ass kicked, I'm telling the police to let you cool off in the drunk tank until next monday morning."

/You give them the choice of their action, and tell them the repercussions of making the "wrong" choice.


There's a more important principle at stake than just actions have repercussions.  There are some things you want to teach your children not to do under any circumstances, either in public or private, because they are inherently degrading/desecrating towards others.
 
2014-05-04 05:18:53 PM  

Miss Alexandra: Well, for every gay that wants to purposely wreck a Christian's livelihood out of hate, there is likely at least one Christian who will be a customer.

You don't go into an occult shop and demand they stock King James Bibles.  Likewise, if a Christian--obeying their conscience--doesn't want to be involved in your so-called "wedding," just find someone with no morals or make it yourself.

I think most people have the sense to know that these gays are just being hateful and spiteful.  "Waaahhh...we can't get these guys to tolerate our perverted lifestyle!  Let's make sure we put them out of business!"

/just disgusted right now


Why do the pearl-clutching Christians* always try to conflate a business refusing to do what they're in business to do with forcing a business to do something they don't?

Boycotting a business that refuses to serve customers because they think those customers are 'icky' is in no way even remotely like trying to force a business to serve something or provide a service they wouldn't normally provide.  These "kosher deli serving a ham sandwich" and "occult shop selling the KJB" examples aren't the same thing by any stretch of the imagination.

"We should boycott Business A because they refuse to serve a specific portion of the population." <-- That's the free market at work.
"We should force Business A to start selling a product they don't currently sell because I want that product." <-- What stupid Christians* seem to think is happening when a business gets boycotted for being bigoted.

* I am, of course, not generalizing about all Christians.  I know for a fact that many of them are compassionate, loving, and accepting people, but those aren't the Christians who think boycotting a business for being shiatty to potential customers is the equivalent of religious persecution.
 
2014-05-04 05:19:08 PM  

Miss Alexandra: Well, for every gay that wants to purposely wreck a Christian's livelihood out of hate, there is likely at least one Christian who will be a customer.

You don't go into an occult shop and demand they stock King James Bibles.  Likewise, if a Christian--obeying their conscience--doesn't want to be involved in your so-called "wedding," just find someone with no morals or make it yourself.

I think most people have the sense to know that these gays are just being hateful and spiteful.  "Waaahhh...we can't get these guys to tolerate our perverted lifestyle!  Let's make sure we put them out of business!"

/just disgusted right now


This attitude right here is the opposite of Christ-like. Baby Jesus weeps with shame over your hate.

Also, how can the Meany-pants Gay People possibly put Good Christian Persecuted People out of business if, as you say, for every one who tries, there is at least one Christian to step up and fill the void?
 
2014-05-04 05:22:33 PM  
Makes you wonder if the motive for these "christians" to run a  business isn't necessarily to run a business, but to use it as an excuse to convert people. And they know that gays have a +5 Resistance to Jeebus Conversion, so what's the point of dealing with them then?
 
2014-05-04 05:22:59 PM  
gay that wants to purposely wreck a Christian's livelihood

so-called "wedding," no morals

gays are just being hateful and spiteful

perverted lifestyle


By God I have absolutely never heard these phrases before in my entire life. Ever.
I am stunned by your earth shattering originality.

cakesandcupcakesmumbai.com
 
2014-05-04 05:27:38 PM  

Bob Robert: Waldo Pepper: Bob Robert: Waldo Pepper: A Christian should be known by their actions especially in the business world. Taking care of all customers is the mark of a good Christian business.

What happen to judging a business of the quality and fairness of their product/service and not their beliefs.

When Christians decided they were going to preach morality onto the rest of society and vote for discriminating laws.

it's not just Christians.  Those who won't eat at Chick-fil-a because of the owners beliefs and yet by all accounts the stores treat their employees well and they provide excellent service to their customers. Better than average for their industry. 

I'm sure there other examples besides Chick-fil-a but it is the easiest to use. 

maybe i'm too naive on this issue.  Do you have the product/service i want or need and will you provide it a a fair price. Yes.good I'll buy, no okay I'll keep looking.

Making a decision not to give money to a business that donates to discrimination causes is just as bad as voting in legislation that restricts someones rights? You are not naive, you are just dumb.


no reason for name calling.  If you are a person who takes the time to research every company that you do business that is great. I don't have the time nor do i really care what folks do with their money.
 
2014-05-04 05:28:42 PM  

TV's Vinnie: Makes you wonder if the motive for these "christians" to run a  business isn't necessarily to run a business, but to use it as an excuse to convert people. And they know that gays have a +5 Resistance to Jeebus Conversion, so what's the point of dealing with them then?


No it's because the sin of being gay is EXTRA terrible because of projection. They hate it in themselves. they can forgive thieves and adulterers easily, but gays? That hits too close to home. To accept them would be one step closer to falling into sin themselves.
 
2014-05-04 05:28:58 PM  
wait for it, waaaiiiit for it.....
 
2014-05-04 05:30:01 PM  

Waldo Pepper: no reason for name calling. If you are a person who takes the time to research every company that you do business that is great. I don't have the time nor do i really care what folks do with their money.


You are now taking a different position without admitting your last one was devoid of logic. And speaking of logic, because you don't care what business owners do or say, nobody else should? The typical fark troll response.
 
2014-05-04 05:31:58 PM  

Waldo Pepper: Bob Robert: Waldo Pepper: Bob Robert: Waldo Pepper: A Christian should be known by their actions especially in the business world. Taking care of all customers is the mark of a good Christian business.

What happen to judging a business of the quality and fairness of their product/service and not their beliefs.

When Christians decided they were going to preach morality onto the rest of society and vote for discriminating laws.

it's not just Christians.  Those who won't eat at Chick-fil-a because of the owners beliefs and yet by all accounts the stores treat their employees well and they provide excellent service to their customers. Better than average for their industry. 

I'm sure there other examples besides Chick-fil-a but it is the easiest to use. 

maybe i'm too naive on this issue.  Do you have the product/service i want or need and will you provide it a a fair price. Yes.good I'll buy, no okay I'll keep looking.

Making a decision not to give money to a business that donates to discrimination causes is just as bad as voting in legislation that restricts someones rights? You are not naive, you are just dumb.

no reason for name calling.  If you are a person who takes the time to research every company that you do business that is great. I don't have the time nor do i really care what folks do with their money.


I'm with you. I'm as queer as a $3 bill but if they had Chick-Fil-A in my country I wouldnt hesitate to try it out. All this stuff about coprorations being anti gay is common knowledge because it's a big issue right now but do you really think the next corporation is any better? Guaranteed it's just as bad in its own way. people are dicks. People in power (corporate CEOs) especially so.
 
2014-05-04 05:34:02 PM  
People who once demanded tolerance seem to have become very intolerant. Sad.

/you will not be punished for your anger. You will be punished by your anger. Buddha
 
2014-05-04 05:36:00 PM  

acohn: Miss Alexandra: Well, for every gay that wants to purposely wreck a Christian's livelihood out of hate, there is likely at least one Christian who will be a customer.

You don't go into an occult shop and demand they stock King James Bibles.  Likewise, if a Christian--obeying their conscience--doesn't want to be involved in your so-called "wedding," just find someone with no morals or make it yourself.

I think most people have the sense to know that these gays are just being hateful and spiteful.  "Waaahhh...we can't get these guys to tolerate our perverted lifestyle!  Let's make sure we put them out of business!"

/just disgusted right now

[img.fark.net image 469x304]


Serious.  Check the profile.
 
2014-05-04 05:39:25 PM  
All you have to do is NOT think you should interfere in the lives of your customers. That is what business-people have been doing for thousands of years.
 
2014-05-04 05:40:17 PM  

pjkraatz: acohn: Miss Alexandra: Well, for every gay that wants to purposely wreck a Christian's livelihood out of hate, there is likely at least one Christian who will be a customer.

You don't go into an occult shop and demand they stock King James Bibles.  Likewise, if a Christian--obeying their conscience--doesn't want to be involved in your so-called "wedding," just find someone with no morals or make it yourself.

I think most people have the sense to know that these gays are just being hateful and spiteful.  "Waaahhh...we can't get these guys to tolerate our perverted lifestyle!  Let's make sure we put them out of business!"

/just disgusted right now

[img.fark.net image 469x304]

Serious.  Check the profile.


My initial reaction was "nice performance art," but no. This one appears to be the unreal real deal.
 
2014-05-04 05:41:49 PM  

MrHappyRotter: It's very true. As a raging homosexual, I've personally destroyed several Christian businesses and I've seen to it that hundreds of Christians have lost their jobs. The problem isn't so much that we hate Christians, which we do, trust me, it's just that for every Christian business we shut down, our penis gets an inch bigger. And for every Christian we get fired, another pleasure nerve develops in our anal sphincter. You really can't compete with biology, so I'd recommend you just try to relax, and I promise I'll be gentle.


Are you OK with your posts being highlighted in green 3?

I'll change it if you want.
 
2014-05-04 05:43:45 PM  

Fafai: I'm with you. I'm as queer as a $3 bill but if they had Chick-Fil-A in my country I wouldnt hesitate to try it out. All this stuff about coprorations being anti gay is common knowledge because it's a big issue right now but do you really think the next corporation is any better? Guaranteed it's just as bad in its own way. people are dicks. People in power (corporate CEOs) especially so.


This is an obvious troll.

"I'm gay and I support Chick Fil A because every company does it!"

Great contribution. You sound very concerned.
 
2014-05-04 05:44:45 PM  
There really ought to be a website that monetizes these trolltastic articles.

Where does "poor christians are victimized by the gays" fit on the scale of filling a paid pundit deadline, say against "Girls having sex before marriage cause Force 5 tornados?"  A how big is the grab bag of "I can't submit anything today, so what's a good troll piece? Where's my playbook from Pat Robertson's university media degree?"
 
2014-05-04 05:45:02 PM  

Fafai: Waldo Pepper: Bob Robert: Waldo Pepper: Bob Robert: Waldo Pepper: A Christian should be known by their actions especially in the business world. Taking care of all customers is the mark of a good Christian business.

What happen to judging a business of the quality and fairness of their product/service and not their beliefs.

When Christians decided they were going to preach morality onto the rest of society and vote for discriminating laws.

it's not just Christians.  Those who won't eat at Chick-fil-a because of the owners beliefs and yet by all accounts the stores treat their employees well and they provide excellent service to their customers. Better than average for their industry.

I'm sure there other examples besides Chick-fil-a but it is the easiest to use.

maybe i'm too naive on this issue.  Do you have the product/service i want or need and will you provide it a a fair price. Yes.good I'll buy, no okay I'll keep looking.

Making a decision not to give money to a business that donates to discrimination causes is just as bad as voting in legislation that restricts someones rights? You are not naive, you are just dumb.

no reason for name calling.  If you are a person who takes the time to research every company that you do business that is great. I don't have the time nor do i really care what folks do with their money.

I'm with you. I'm as queer as a $3 bill but if they had Chick-Fil-A in my country I wouldnt hesitate to try it out. All this stuff about coprorations being anti gay is common knowledge because it's a big issue right now but do you really think the next corporation is any better? Guaranteed it's just as bad in its own way. people are dicks. People in power (corporate CEOs) especially so.

I do not buy even a single word you said there chief. Not a single farking word.
 
2014-05-04 05:45:05 PM  
Business X treats potential customers poorly. Word gets around. People stop patronizing Business X.

"Wah!! Religious persecution!!"
 
2014-05-04 05:47:04 PM  

svanmeter: People who once demanded tolerance seem to have become very intolerant. Sad.

/you will not be punished for your anger. You will be punished by your anger. Buddha


There's a bully beating up a weaker kid.  The weaker kid keeps begging the bully to stop, but he just keeps going.  Finally, the weaker kid kicks the bully in the shin.  The bully grabs his shin and cries, "Stop being so mean!" while onlookers shake their heads and mutter, "It's so sad that weaker kid seems to have become so violent."
 
2014-05-04 05:50:39 PM  

svanmeter: People who once demanded tolerance seem to have become very intolerant. Sad.


How is it intolerant to not patronize a business that treats potential customers poorly? It's not intolerance, it's the free market at work. Very American.
 
2014-05-04 05:50:41 PM  

Waldo Pepper: no reason for name calling.  If you are a person who takes the time to research every company that you do business that is great. I don't have the time nor do i really care what folks do with their money.


I'm pretty sure nobody researches every company with which they do business, especially since you don't have a choice in many cases, but then you knew that.  If you don't really care what folks do with their money, then why'd you post?  Is the thought of someone doing something with their money other than spend it exactly the same way you would troubling?
 
2014-05-04 05:52:05 PM  

JoieD'Zen: If they kept their opinions to themselves and focused on running a business they wouldn't have a problem? Crazy idea.


Like a private phone call between two people?

The guy pushed out at Mozilla was fired for donating to a prop 8 support group that had their donor list illegally released.

The bakery owners in that lawsuit out west had baked for the gays in question before, just drew the line at helping them to violate a sacrament.
 
2014-05-04 05:52:43 PM  

Bob Robert: Fafai: I'm with you. I'm as queer as a $3 bill but if they had Chick-Fil-A in my country I wouldnt hesitate to try it out. All this stuff about coprorations being anti gay is common knowledge because it's a big issue right now but do you really think the next corporation is any better? Guaranteed it's just as bad in its own way. people are dicks. People in power (corporate CEOs) especially so.

This is an obvious troll.

"I'm gay and I support Chick Fil A because every company does it!"

Great contribution. You sound very concerned.


there you go with your simplistic binary thinking again. everything is either/or with you. not hesitating to try it (say if chicken sandwiches were the most appetizing thing available in a food court when i was really hungry) does not equal "i support them" any more than "great go ahead and do what you like" equals "i insist you must do as i do!"

/and im not fully gay but im enthusiatically less than straight if that makes any difference
 
2014-05-04 05:54:54 PM  

Fafai: there you go with your simplistic binary thinking again. everything is either/or with you. not hesitating to try it (say if chicken sandwiches were the most appetizing thing available in a food court when i was really hungry) does not equal "i support them" any more than "great go ahead and do what you like" equals "i insist you must do as i do!"

/and im not fully gay but im enthusiatically less than straight if that makes any difference



Angry conservative troll like posting detected. Thank you for your great concern at how oppressed businesses are when customers take into account the political stands the business takes and the causes they donate to that restrict their rights. Now go log in with a new account to agree with yourself like you jumped into my debate with another worthless tool.
 
2014-05-04 05:55:03 PM  
Mike_1962:
There's a screaming difference here. As far as I know Chick-fil-a doesn't refuse service to people based on sexual orientation.


No, but the owner donates significant money to efforts to fight legalization of gay marriage. I suspect that's the reason a lot of people  (me included) won't eat there. I don't want even a dime of whatever I spend on lunch going into the pocket of a bigoted asshat who's actively trying to deny equal rights to other human beings.

I'm sure I unwittingly support some people who spend money for things I disagree with, but when it's as well publicized as ChikFilA, easy to avoid going there.

/really, really miss their sweet-roll-around-a-nugget breakfast though...
 
2014-05-04 05:56:12 PM  

Bob Robert: I'm detached from reality because you think supporting a business that discriminates against gay people is what everyone does?


No (and I don't think that), it's because you think "you do what you want and that's great" means "you must do as I do". You not only put words in that posters mouth, you put words that mean the exact opposite of their sentiment. This isn't about me.

And your use of troll to mean anyone who disagrees with you makes you look like a fool. What's more likely, that legions of trolls are all targeting you, or that you're mistaken about others' motivations for posting (which logically you'd have no knowledge of beyond pure speculation?)
 
2014-05-04 05:58:12 PM  

Bob Robert: Thank you for your great concern at how oppressed businesses are


Show me where it even looks like I think this.
 
2014-05-04 05:58:40 PM  

Bob Robert: Waldo Pepper: no reason for name calling. If you are a person who takes the time to research every company that you do business that is great. I don't have the time nor do i really care what folks do with their money.

You are now taking a different position without admitting your last one was devoid of logic. And speaking of logic, because you don't care what business owners do or say, nobody else should? The typical fark troll response.


my position hasn't changed. I didn't say I agree that the person is right for not doing business with a company. just if that makes them happy then go for it.

Why does it seem that those who are pushing for diversity and acceptance have such a hard time tolerating diversity and acceptance of those who disagree with them?
 
2014-05-04 05:59:21 PM  

Fafai: No (and I don't think that), it's because you think "you do what you want and that's great" means "you must do as I do". You not only put words in that posters mouth, you put words that mean the exact opposite of their sentiment. This isn't about me.

And your use of troll to mean anyone who disagrees with you makes you look like a fool. What's more likely, that legions of trolls are all targeting you, or that you're mistaken about others' motivations for posting (which logically you'd have no knowledge of beyond pure speculation?)



I am so sad that you think I look like a fool. I really care what you have to say, as you can see I've been so emotional in my replies to your great use of "logic"

Please continue your angry drunk rants and lies about your sexual preference when you feel it will make your lie sound believable.
 
2014-05-04 05:59:30 PM  
I never grasped how wishing to get married was "NO MORALS!" anyway.

I guess these Christians prefer "living in sin" as they call it, since they actually don't want people to get married.
 
2014-05-04 05:59:58 PM  

phenn: noitsnot: phenn: Showed up on my FB feed:

...

We are not unlike. I'm a middle-aged white woman of Irish lineage. Let's say - for a moment - you're a 25-year old black male.

Your DNA and mine are nearly identical. We are both two-legged critters whose survival actually depends on fostering empathy.

...

That is survival. And - I think - that is what species do.

At least, I hope so.  :-)



I'll just say that, for all of history except the most recent instant, there has been no way for any organism to know anything about DNA.

All they know is what somebody else looks like, where they come from, and what they do.

We're hard-wired to like the guys on OUR team, and dislike the guys on THEIR team.  And we're hard-wired to like babies.  And we're hard-wired to want a Daddy.  These are all irrational drives that get in the way of having an egalitarian utopia.
 
2014-05-04 06:03:58 PM  

Waldo Pepper: Why does it seem that those who are pushing for diversity and acceptance have such a hard time tolerating diversity and acceptance of those who disagree with them?


Why are you not tolerant and accepting of my bigotry and campaigning to limit your rights? You are really the true bigot!
 
2014-05-04 06:04:48 PM  

Bob Robert: lies about your sexual preference


Wow. I've been posting for over a year and have made no effort to hide my sexuality here on fark. But you just know everything about others' motivation more than they do, don't you? You're the king of puttign words in others' mouths (often changin their meaning 180 degrees) in order to win simplistic binary arguments. I've watched you do it to numerous people in your two weeks here.
 
2014-05-04 06:05:30 PM  

archichris: Read up on the tactics that the Mafia uses to extort protection money and then read up on the tactics terrorists use to change public opinion or policy.....

Then read up on the tactics the LGBT activists use against Christians.

Its a scary parallel.

You know who else.... nah never mind, you arent reading anymore anyway.


And then read public accommodation laws so you don't sound like an idiot.
 
2014-05-04 06:05:39 PM  

Bob Robert: campaigning to limit your rights?


Show me where he said this.
 
2014-05-04 06:08:41 PM  
ricbach229: ]

The guy pushed out at Mozilla was fired for donating to a prop 8 support group that had their donor list illegally released.

This is absolutely untrue and you are spreading a lie.  The donor list was legally released by the California Secretary of state as mandated by law.  Quit  spreading lies.
 
2014-05-04 06:09:16 PM  

Fafai: Wow. I've been posting for over a year and have made no effort to hide my sexuality here on fark. But you just know everything about others' motivation more than they do, don't you? You're the king of puttign words in others' mouths (often changin their meaning 180 degrees) in order to win simplistic binary arguments. I've watched you do it to numerous people in your two weeks here.



Your trolling is really getting desperate here. If you don't see the problem with supporting a business that wants to take away your basic human rights then there is no hope left for you. Keep white knighting for the conservative trolls, you're doing God's work.
 
2014-05-04 06:13:33 PM  

Bob Robert: Fafai: Wow. I've been posting for over a year and have made no effort to hide my sexuality here on fark. But you just know everything about others' motivation more than they do, don't you? You're the king of puttign words in others' mouths (often changin their meaning 180 degrees) in order to win simplistic binary arguments. I've watched you do it to numerous people in your two weeks here.


Your trolling is really getting desperate here. If you don't see the problem with supporting a business that wants to take away your basic human rights then there is no hope left for you. Keep white knighting for the conservative trolls, you're doing God's work.


I'm more politically apathetic and care more about getting lunch more than I think one person can make a difference but in Super Binary World that means caring about doing God's work.

/Atheist, but those kind of facts don't matter to you. And I've asked you to cite the in-thread reasons for your assersions about both me and Waldo Pepper but you ignore all that. As dumb as I'm making myself look here (it's what I do), you're looking worse for being so simplistic here.
 
2014-05-04 06:14:54 PM  

Fafai: Fafai: I'm with you. I'm as queer as a $3


Fafai: /and im not fully gay but im enthusiatically less than straight if that makes any difference


This might be where the confusion is coming from. I got no dog in your fight with BR, but I admit thinking that you were adjusting your sexuality to best fit the conversation at the moment. If I'm wrong, please say so, but that's how it came off.
 
2014-05-04 06:15:16 PM  

Fafai: Bob Robert: Fafai: Wow. I've been posting for over a year and have made no effort to hide my sexuality here on fark. But you just know everything about others' motivation more than they do, don't you? You're the king of puttign words in others' mouths (often changin their meaning 180 degrees) in order to win simplistic binary arguments. I've watched you do it to numerous people in your two weeks here.


Your trolling is really getting desperate here. If you don't see the problem with supporting a business that wants to take away your basic human rights then there is no hope left for you. Keep white knighting for the conservative trolls, you're doing God's work.

I'm more politically apathetic and care more about getting lunch more than I think one person can make a difference but in Super Binary World that means caring about doing God's work.

/Atheist, but those kind of facts don't matter to you. And I've asked you to cite the in-thread reasons for your assersions about both me and Waldo Pepper but you ignore all that. As dumb as I'm making myself look here (it's what I do), you're looking worse for being so simplistic here.


You just admitted to purposefully making yourself look dumb. Well, maybe it's not on purpose, but you did it to support possibly the dumbest issue ever.
 
2014-05-04 06:22:31 PM  

Fafai: I'm more politically apathetic and care more about getting lunch more than I think one person can make a difference but in Super Binary World that means caring about doing God's work.

/Atheist, but those kind of facts don't matter to you. And I've asked you to cite the in-thread reasons for your assersions about both me and Waldo Pepper but you ignore all that. As dumb as I'm making myself look here (it's what I do), you're looking worse for being so simplistic here.


Keep doubling down on your idiocy. The more you post the more you discredit your past beliefs. Now you feel the need to point out that you're atheist? I give you 2 more posts before you backpedal from that like you did after your "super queer" claim. Keep white knighting for trolling trash like Waldo Pepper. That is some intellectual company to be in.
 
2014-05-04 06:24:23 PM  

ricbach229: notto: ricbach229: ]

The guy pushed out at Mozilla was fired for donating to a prop 8 support group that had their donor list illegally released.

This is absolutely untrue and you are spreading a lie.  The donor list was legally released by the California Secretary of state as mandated by law.  Quit  spreading lies.

Thanks for being an asshole while calling me a liar over a mistake.  I didn't realize California had a $100 threshold for disclosure of donations to non politicians.

I notice you didn't correct me on the private phone call Stirlings had or the bakers case where they are essentially a kosher deli being forced to serve an unkosher cake.


Please explain this. What makes a kosher deli kosher is not their refusal to serve a particular customer. It is the list of ingredients that they do not use in their food. What ingredient is included in Gay Cake that is forbidden in Christian cake? Because that would be the only way the two situations would be at all the same.
 
2014-05-04 06:28:29 PM  

ricbach229: notto: ricbach229: ]

Thanks for being an asshole while calling me a liar over a mistake.  I didn't realize California had a $100 threshold for disclosure of donations to non politicians.

I notice you didn't correct me on the private phone call Stirlings had or the bakers case where they are essentially a kosher deli being forced to serve an unkosher cake.


I didn't call you a liar.  I said you are spreading a lie.  You would be a liar if you purposely do it in the future.

Your kosher analogy is simply silly.
 
2014-05-04 06:29:27 PM  
namegoeshere:
I notice you didn't correct me on the private phone call Stirlings had or the bakers case where they are essentially a kosher deli being forced to serve an unkosher cake.

Please explain this. What makes a kosher deli kosher is not their refusal to serve a particular customer. It is the list of ingredients that they do not use in their food. What ingredient is included in Gay Cake that is forbidden in Christian cake? Because that would be the only way the two situations would be at all the same.


Exactly.
 
2014-05-04 06:34:42 PM  

namegoeshere: Fafai: Fafai: I'm with you. I'm as queer as a $3

Fafai: /and im not fully gay but im enthusiatically less than straight if that makes any difference

This might be where the confusion is coming from. I got no dog in your fight with BR, but I admit thinking that you were adjusting your sexuality to best fit the conversation at the moment. If I'm wrong, please say so, but that's how it came off.


Even the hetero stuff I do is pretty gay.
 
2014-05-04 06:38:46 PM  

namegoeshere: ricbach229: notto: ricbach229: ]

The guy pushed out at Mozilla was fired for donating to a prop 8 support group that had their donor list illegally released.

This is absolutely untrue and you are spreading a lie.  The donor list was legally released by the California Secretary of state as mandated by law.  Quit  spreading lies.

Thanks for being an asshole while calling me a liar over a mistake.  I didn't realize California had a $100 threshold for disclosure of donations to non politicians.

I notice you didn't correct me on the private phone call Stirlings had or the bakers case where they are essentially a kosher deli being forced to serve an unkosher cake.

Please explain this. What makes a kosher deli kosher is not their refusal to serve a particular customer. It is the list of ingredients that they do not use in their food. What ingredient is included in Gay Cake that is forbidden in Christian cake? Because that would be the only way the two situations would be at all the same.


Kosher isn't just kosher because of the ingredients.  It's also in the prep.  Slaughter a cow one way and it's kosher, do it another and it's just hamburger.

The bakers sell a wedding cake as a contribution to the marriage sacrament.  Something as small as the male/female figure on the top of the cake is a part of it.  Now they're being forced to change the cakes decorations from what they artistically believe appropriate and sell to people who are not even committing the sacrament. In the case in Colorado the baker had made other products without any problem for the couple in question.  It was only when it came to the wedding cake that the baker said no, this is different, can't do it.
 
2014-05-04 06:39:13 PM  

Fafai: Even the hetero stuff I do is pretty gay.


Just as I first claimed, pathetic troll. You lost the debate, tripped over your claims, and embarrassed yourself all in the span of a few minutes. Good job.
 
2014-05-04 06:39:31 PM  

Bob Robert: Now you feel the need to point out that you're atheist?


In response you insinuating I'm a soldier of God, yes. Or is that trolling of me to correct you when you say things about my personal beliefs?

Trolls! Trolls everywhere!
 
2014-05-04 06:47:47 PM  
Fafai: Even the hetero stuff I do is pretty gay.

Dude. Or not...

TOO MUCH INFORMATION.

Wise up, or you'll end up sinking yourself with that big mouth of yours.

Just a friendly warning...from the Twilight Zone.
 
2014-05-04 06:48:29 PM  

ricbach229: namegoeshere: ricbach229: notto: ricbach229: ]

The guy pushed out at Mozilla was fired for donating to a prop 8 support group that had their donor list illegally released.

This is absolutely untrue and you are spreading a lie.  The donor list was legally released by the California Secretary of state as mandated by law.  Quit  spreading lies.

Thanks for being an asshole while calling me a liar over a mistake.  I didn't realize California had a $100 threshold for disclosure of donations to non politicians.

I notice you didn't correct me on the private phone call Stirlings had or the bakers case where they are essentially a kosher deli being forced to serve an unkosher cake.

Please explain this. What makes a kosher deli kosher is not their refusal to serve a particular customer. It is the list of ingredients that they do not use in their food. What ingredient is included in Gay Cake that is forbidden in Christian cake? Because that would be the only way the two situations would be at all the same.

Kosher isn't just kosher because of the ingredients.  It's also in the prep.  Slaughter a cow one way and it's kosher, do

it another and it's just hamburger.

And refusing to sell the same kosher burger to one person that they freely sell to another person would be similar to this. Refusing to sell a non-kosher sandwich in their kosher business is not.


The bakers sell a wedding cake as a contribution to the marriage sacrament.  Something as small as the male/female figure on the top of the cake is a part of it.  Now they're being forced to change the cakes decorations from what they artistically believe appropriate and sell to people who are not even committing the sacrament. In the case in Colorado the baker had made other products without any problem for the couple in question.  It was only when it came to the wedding cake that the baker said no, this is different, can't do it.

They are in no way contributing to the sacrament of marriage. They aren't marrying the couple. There is no cake in a wedding ceremony. They're baking a cake for the party after the ceremony. They're baking the same cake they bake for every other  couple. They are specifically denying that same cake to the gay couple. And again, it has fark all to do with your kosher deli example.
 
2014-05-04 06:51:23 PM  

Fafai: Bob Robert: Now you feel the need to point out that you're atheist?

In response you insinuating I'm a soldier of God, yes. Or is that trolling of me to correct you when you say things about my personal beliefs?

Trolls! Trolls everywhere!


And you're just awful at it.
 
2014-05-04 06:51:47 PM  

Bob Robert: You lost the debate,


Please tell me what debate I lost. I entered into this saying you put words in WaldoPepper's mouth. Specifically, saying he insisted upon people supporting bigoted corporations when in fact his sentiment said the opposite ("if you want to boycott that is great"). You haven't shown me where he said what you were saying he said at all. You also haven't shown me where I was expressing any concern for corporations being oppressed, as you claimed. All you've done is stomp your foot, cry troll, and make assumptions about a complete stranger's religious beliefs and sexuality.
 
2014-05-04 06:54:18 PM  
ricbach229:

The bakers sell a wedding cake as a contribution to the marriage sacrament.

Absolute BS.  There is no indication that the bakers in question ever refused to anyone based on the arrangements of their wedding and they certainly never had this discussion with their past clients.  I'm sure they provided product to people who only had a civil ceremony or another type of non-Christian ceremony and in no way are they participating in the religious (or non religious) part of the wedding.

If they think that they are and that this somehow gives them a right to refuse service then they need to find a different business or a very good attorney because they are violating the terms of their business license that they agreed to when they opened their shop.
 
2014-05-04 06:56:05 PM  

Fafai: Bob Robert: You lost the debate,

Please tell me what debate I lost. I entered into this saying you put words in WaldoPepper's mouth. Specifically, saying he insisted upon people supporting bigoted corporations when in fact his sentiment said the opposite ("if you want to boycott that is great"). You haven't shown me where he said what you were saying he said at all. You also haven't shown me where I was expressing any concern for corporations being oppressed, as you claimed. All you've done is stomp your foot, cry troll, and make assumptions about a complete stranger's religious beliefs and sexuality.


ITT, troll vehemently denies trolling, makes sh*t up that happen to be really convenient to his argument, blames others when called out on it.
 
2014-05-04 06:56:54 PM  

namegoeshere: ricbach229: namegoeshere: ricbach229: notto: ricbach229: ]

The guy pushed out at Mozilla was fired for donating to a prop 8 support group that had their donor list illegally released.

This is absolutely untrue and you are spreading a lie.  The donor list was legally released by the California Secretary of state as mandated by law.  Quit  spreading lies.

Thanks for being an asshole while calling me a liar over a mistake.  I didn't realize California had a $100 threshold for disclosure of donations to non politicians.

I notice you didn't correct me on the private phone call Stirlings had or the bakers case where they are essentially a kosher deli being forced to serve an unkosher cake.

Please explain this. What makes a kosher deli kosher is not their refusal to serve a particular customer. It is the list of ingredients that they do not use in their food. What ingredient is included in Gay Cake that is forbidden in Christian cake? Because that would be the only way the two situations would be at all the same.

Kosher isn't just kosher because of the ingredients.  It's also in the prep.  Slaughter a cow one way and it's kosher, do it another and it's just hamburger.

And refusing to sell the same kosher burger to one person that they freely sell to another person would be similar to this. Refusing to sell a non-kosher sandwich in their kosher business is not.


The bakers sell a wedding cake as a contribution to the marriage sacrament.  Something as small as the male/female figure on the top of the cake is a part of it.  Now they're being forced to change the cakes decorations from what they artistically believe appropriate and sell to people who are not even committing the sacrament. In the case in Colorado the baker had made other products without any problem for the couple in question.  It was only when it came to the wedding cake that the baker said no, this is different, can't do it.

They are in no way contributing to the sacrament of marriage. They aren't ma ...


The cake is a part of the celebration of the blessing.  Hell, I've got an uncle-in-law that wouldn't visit my house because my wife and I weren't married yet and were living together.  After the marriage he talked to his priest about if it was appropriate because she is Catholic and we didn't have a Catholic service (outdoors in fact) so it wasn't recognized by the Church.  I think he's visited once and he said the prayers before we ate. I can easily believe a person of conscience could have a strong religious desire not to contribute any type of blessing on a service that violates the tenets of their church.
 
2014-05-04 07:00:56 PM  
Fafai: Please tell me what debate I lost.

All of them.

encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com
 
2014-05-04 07:01:06 PM  

ricbach229: namegoeshere: ricbach229: namegoeshere: ricbach229: notto: ricbach229: ]

The guy pushed out at Mozilla was fired for donating to a prop 8 support group that had their donor list illegally released.

This is absolutely untrue and you are spreading a lie.  The donor list was legally released by the California Secretary of state as mandated by law.  Quit  spreading lies.

Thanks for being an asshole while calling me a liar over a mistake.  I didn't realize California had a $100 threshold for disclosure of donations to non politicians.

I notice you didn't correct me on the private phone call Stirlings had or the bakers case where they are essentially a kosher deli being forced to serve an unkosher cake.

Please explain this. What makes a kosher deli kosher is not their refusal to serve a particular customer. It is the list of ingredients that they do not use in their food. What ingredient is included in Gay Cake that is forbidden in Christian cake? Because that would be the only way the two situations would be at all the same.

Kosher isn't just kosher because of the ingredients.  It's also in the prep.  Slaughter a cow one way and it's kosher, do it another and it's just hamburger.

And refusing to sell the same kosher burger to one person that they freely sell to another person would be similar to this. Refusing to sell a non-kosher sandwich in their kosher business is not.


The bakers sell a wedding cake as a contribution to the marriage sacrament.  Something as small as the male/female figure on the top of the cake is a part of it.  Now they're being forced to change the cakes decorations from what they artistically believe appropriate and sell to people who are not even committing the sacrament. In the case in Colorado the baker had made other products without any problem for the couple in question.  It was only when it came to the wedding cake that the baker said no, this is different, can't do it.

They are in no way contributing to the sacrament of marriage. They aren't ma ...

The cake is a part of the celebration of the blessing.  Hell, I've got an uncle-in-law that wouldn't visit my house because my wife and I weren't married yet and were living together.  After the marriage he talked to his priest about if it was appropriate because she is Catholic and we didn't have a Catholic service (outdoors in fact) so it wasn't recognized by the Church.  I think he's visited once and he said the prayers before we ate. I can easily believe a person of conscience could have a strong religious desire not to contribute any type of blessing on a service that violates the tenets of their church.


The cake has no significance in the wedding. It's part of the reception.
 
2014-05-04 07:02:12 PM  
ricbach229:

Hell, I've got an uncle-in-law that wouldn't visit my house because my wife and I weren't married yet and were living together.

So, by your logic, your mortgage was a 'sinful' one and the bank would have the right to refuse to finance your house or foreclose once they found out about it if it was against the bank owners religious views.

Is that your argument?
 
2014-05-04 07:08:45 PM  

ricbach229: The cake is a part of the celebration of the blessing. Hell, I've got an uncle-in-law that wouldn't visit my house because my wife and I weren't married yet and were living together. After the marriage he talked to his priest about if it was appropriate because she is Catholic and we didn't have a Catholic service (outdoors in fact) so it wasn't recognized by the Church. I think he's visited once and he said the prayers before we ate. I can easily believe a person of conscience could have a strong religious desire not to contribute any type of blessing on a service that violates the tenets of their church


No one will ever hold a gun to their heads and force them to bake a wedding cake for a gay couple. They are free to refuse - if they are willing to deal with the consequences of their actions. Refusing the cake to a gay couple is negatively impacting their business. If they are going to refuse the cake, they need to accept the consequences of that refusal.

I have to wonder, though, if they would refuse the same cake to the couple previously married and divorced, the atheist couple, the couple with kids outside of the marriage, the couple wearing mixed fabrics and serving lobster at the reception, ect, or is it just the gay couple who violates their code.
 
2014-05-04 07:12:45 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: ITT, troll vehemently denies trolling, makes sh*t up that happen to be really convenient to his argument, blames others when called out on it.


Again with the troll shiat. Did you see my response to achon? Did you catch my posts in response to cchris_39 by any chance? Why would I be arguing with a conservative like him and then also argue with a liberal like Bob Robert? Could it be because they both have more in common with each other than either of them do with me? Could they both be ridiculously binary and simplistic in their views and not seem to understand nuance and grey areas at all?

What shiat did I make up? Stuff about being queer? Where do you get off calling someone's professed sexual identity a lie (the fact is I've been identifying as bi on this site for as long as I've been here)? Look at you, so invested in me being a straight conservative just so that (I presume) you can continue on with your oversimplified view of life and politics without having to exercise your brain.

And who else did I blame? I came in this thread with a pro-gay stance, but it's not even anti-gay vs pro-gay anymore. It's people who need to align themselves and everyone else with a "side" so they can understand their own politics without having to think for themselves vs people who have no problem thinking for themselves and understand not everything is either/or. Only one of these sides is calling the other a troll. Thinking others are just trolls makes understanding any nuanced conflict a hell of a lot easier, wouldn't you agree?
 
2014-05-04 07:13:37 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: The cake has no significance in the wedding. It's part of the reception.


The cake is as much a part of the "sacrament" as the band.
 
2014-05-04 07:15:15 PM  

Kittypie070: I never grasped how wishing to get married was "NO MORALS!" anyway.

I guess these Christians prefer "living in sin" as they call it, since they actually don't want people to get married.


Nobody should want to get married1. It is a terrible financial decision.

1everybody should have the right to get married if they want to though2
2
making this clear because a certain drooling idiot in this thread will inevitably accuse me of being against gay rights
 
2014-05-04 07:16:09 PM  

Kittypie070: Fafai: Please tell me what debate I lost.

All of them.

[encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 259x194]


Then you should have no problem showing me where I expressed concerned for bigoted corporations being oppressed or where WaldoPepper said people should support such corporations.
 
2014-05-04 07:18:09 PM  

Teufelaffe: cameroncrazy1984: The cake has no significance in the wedding. It's part of the reception.

The cake is as much a part of the "sacrament" as the band.


I.E. It's not at all.
 
2014-05-04 07:19:24 PM  
Since I'm on mobile I won't quote that wall of text but allow me to say that this is the first thread any of us have seen you post in, and it's very convenient for you to pretend to be gay to bolster your argument that you are non-partisan.
 
2014-05-04 07:19:31 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: Teufelaffe: cameroncrazy1984: The cake has no significance in the wedding. It's part of the reception.

The cake is as much a part of the "sacrament" as the band.

I.E. It's not at all.


Indeed.
 
2014-05-04 07:23:07 PM  

jjorsett: hubiestubert: It's not limiting the career options of Christians, but limiting the career options for asshats.

You want to be a bigot and an asshat, who limits their market by excluding a fair amount of the population, yeah, you're looking at cutting your own damn throat, and it's self selecting your own career demise. That's freedom, baby.

How about, oh say, donating money to support support traditional marriage, gun ownership, school vouchers, anti-minimum-wage, or any of the other left-wing bêtes noires? Should such people be hounded out of careers because only asshats support such things? And if some group on the opposite side of the political spectrum feels the  supporters of  climate change legislation should be removed from the public square and their high-profile jobs, is that okay with you? Is the modern equivalent of witch-burning what you want as the new paradigm?


As you shall sow, so shall ye reap. The paradigm is the same: The Golden Rule. Maybe you should think about how dickish folks have been with their support, and then wonder why folks are pointing and laughing at the idiocy that you've been spouting, O Brave Pioneer...

It's not about sides, you twit. It's about the freedom to disagree, and then whining when folks show their support or disagreement. It's about pants on head retardedness being classified as being equal because it's only "fair." Oh, the poor struggle of the persecuted Christian who can't carry out his vindictive rant against the homos, it's totally the same as how the slaves were treated. Cry me a river for the Sallies who are upset that OTHER people don't hate the gheys...

Rucking fetarded...
 
2014-05-04 07:34:29 PM  

phenn: noitsnot: phenn: Showed up on my FB feed:

[i.imgur.com image 450x450]

All the hatred towards people who are different from us is learned behavior. Not in any way born or organic.

Unlearn that shiat and live free ya bunch of farkwits.


Unfortunately, I believe, not true.  Discrimination against groups that are "unlike" one's own is instinctive behavior - except for mating (to promote genetic diversity).  Both are traits that promote the survival of one's own group.

I'll nibble because I think you're being thoughtful and genuine.

We are not unlike. I'm a middle-aged white woman of Irish lineage. Let's say - for a moment - you're a 25-year old black male.

Your DNA and mine are nearly identical. We are both two-legged critters whose survival actually depends on fostering empathy.

Now, I know people who have been raised to believe that particular line of thinking. Shiat's cool and they do well in social situations. I also know people who have been raised to believe that black people, Asian people, gay people, non-christian people (whatever) will be the downfall of humanity as we know it.

For my own experiences, I think everyone I know was born with the first attitude I mention. I think the latter attitude is learned/taught/drilled into the skull. And, hey. I'm prepared to be wrong on this.

Intuitively speaking, it behooves the human species to protect its own. Not dilly-dally on who might be gay, black, short, silly looking and so forth.

That is survival. And - I think - that is what species do.

At least, I hope so.  :-)


http://www.livescience.com/20089-facial-racial-bias-infants.html

Babies cannot read DNA.

Being a decent human being is the learned behaviour, it is really easy (childish) to disregard/avoid/hate the other.

You being not racist/sexist/etc is excellent, but it is because you are a considerate educated adult, not because you were born that way.
 
2014-05-04 07:47:34 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: Since I'm on mobile I won't quote that wall of text but allow me to say that this is the first thread any of us have seen you post in, and it's very convenient for you to pretend to be gay to bolster your argument that you are non-partisan.


If we could get the mobile to not make us quote the whole wall every time I will personally bake a cake for a gay wedding.
 
2014-05-04 07:53:23 PM  

thismomentinblackhistory: Baz744: Here's the thing that gets me about gay opponents. They're all so "up in your face" about their "disapproval" of homosexuality. They have to broadcast it everywhere they go. They put it on their bumper stickers, they wear it on their t-shirts, or they pin it to themselves on a button. They just refuse to keep their lifestyles to themselves.

I don't care if people want to disapprove of homosexuality in the privacy of their own homes. Whatever revolting things they want to do on their own time in their own place is fine.

But if you decide to flaunt your perverted gay hate everywhere you go, don't be surprised when there are consequences. Don't be surprised if employers don't want anything to do with you. Don't be surprised if your normal friends with good morals abandon you. Don't be surprised if even your own family rejects you.

Keep your gay hate in the closet where it belongs.

Beautiful.


Next on the agenda:

Are anti-gay attitudes chosen? Or do they arise from genetics? Because if it's the former, then polite society is really justified in shunning them as perverted deviants.

But if it's the latter, then I think they're more to be pitied than censured. Instead of just casting them to the outer darkness, we should approach them with compassion in the recognition that we may someday find a cure for their mental disorder.
 
2014-05-04 07:53:38 PM  
Let's put this in perspective. Let us suppose that our hypothetical subject is not a homophobic bigot, but a pedophile. Let us further suppose that this person frequently expresses the sentiment that having sex with small children is a great thing, and that people should do it more often. Let us further suppose that he perhaps publishes a blog that also expresses these sentiments. Let us even further supposes that he makes frequent donations to NAMBLA, and is unapologetic about it.
Now - who here wishes to do business with, associate with, work with, or employ this person? What? None of you?
Quelle surprise.
That's because it's UNACCEPTABLE.
Period.
Well, the only thing that is changing is that bigotry regarding innate characteristics is joining that short list of views that are not acceptable among the civilized. Nothing else has changed. There have always been things one could not say without severe consequences. It's just the things themselves that change, over time.
It's too bad some people don't like bigotry being add to the list - but, time goes on, and things change.
Society is not becoming any less tolerant of transgressive views than it ever has - probably a bit more so.
Some people just think it is, because views they are comfortable with are becoming unacceptable.
 
2014-05-04 08:14:30 PM  
Fark.com: Like /b/, but for old people!
 
2014-05-04 08:16:07 PM  

gilgigamesh: Tell me about it. I can't even hang the "NO COLOREDS OR JEWS" sign God told me to put up without catching all kinds of hell.

I'm all persecuted. Just like Jesus.


I'm pretty sure when people were hanging those signs in their stores they weren't complaining about a lack of business.
 
2014-05-04 08:19:55 PM  

ScaryBottles: Miss Alexandra: Well, for every gay that wants to purposely wreck a Christian's livelihood out of hate, there is likely at least one Christian who will be a customer.

You don't go into an occult shop and demand they stock King James Bibles.  Likewise, if a Christian--obeying their conscience--doesn't want to be involved in your so-called "wedding," just find someone with no morals or make it yourself.

I think most people have the sense to know that these gays are just being hateful and spiteful.  "Waaahhh...we can't get these guys to tolerate our perverted lifestyle!  Let's make sure we put them out of business!"

/just disgusted right now

Holy crap I had heard you existed but I thought it was just a myth! You're the Geocentrist housewife!

http://www.genesis-creation-proof.com/geocentricity.html


Holy crap. That site is so farking stupid you could use it as a textbook on the Poe principle.
 
2014-05-04 08:21:14 PM  

ScaryBottles: Forty-Two: ScaryBottles: Por que tan serioso: Thats it right there. Activists. Someone up thread was saying something bla bla bla "fair amount of the population" bla bla bla. LGBT are not even close. Tiny minority. But the way people talk its seems like 50/50 at this point.

Because the only people who care about marriage equality are LGBTs. See Einstein this is why everyone thinks you guys are bigoted pieces of shiat. But really really terrible try.

Exactly. I'm a heterosexual woman. I'm married to a heterosexual man. We have a baby, and we plan to make another. Hey, we're even white (Dutch and Irish genes make for very pale babies).  And you know what? I support marriage equality. I voted against Prop 8, and I have no plans to eat at Chik-Fil-A.

Yes, I have gay friends (including two who just got married, with Latrice Royale officiating!), but it shouldn't even matterthat it affects people close to me. I support homosexual marriage because I'm human and believe in equality under the law.

So, no. It's not a tiny minority of activists who these businesses are alienating. It's people like me, as well.

Thats awesome I personally would have tried to get Sharon Needles. Season 4 FTW!

Straight male living in sin/


Nice!  Sharoneedles is one of my goto names in MMO's.

/then I gave her another crack in her ass
 
2014-05-04 08:35:08 PM  

namegoeshere: ricbach229: notto: ricbach229: ]

The guy pushed out at Mozilla was fired for donating to a prop 8 support group that had their donor list illegally released.

This is absolutely untrue and you are spreading a lie.  The donor list was legally released by the California Secretary of state as mandated by law.  Quit  spreading lies.

Thanks for being an asshole while calling me a liar over a mistake.  I didn't realize California had a $100 threshold for disclosure of donations to non politicians.

I notice you didn't correct me on the private phone call Stirlings had or the bakers case where they are essentially a kosher deli being forced to serve an unkosher cake.

Please explain this. What makes a kosher deli kosher is not their refusal to serve a particular customer. It is the list of ingredients that they do not use in their food. What ingredient is included in Gay Cake that is forbidden in Christian cake? Because that would be the only way the two situations would be at all the same.


Gay ingredients... Cumin?

Maybe someone else can do better.
 
2014-05-04 08:35:25 PM  

namegoeshere: They are in no way contributing to the sacrament of marriage. They aren't marrying the couple. There is no cake in a wedding ceremony. They're baking a cake for the party after the ceremony. They're baking the same cake they bake for every other  couple. They are specifically denying that same cake to the gay couple. And again, it has fark all to do with your kosher deli example.


Lets say i hunt allot and i have a great picture of myself stabbing a deer in the face... And i take it in to a framing shop owned by a PETA ultravegan... and the guy politely tells me he cant open his business towards something he feels glorifies killing animals... Its against his values...

Is he a bigot?
 
2014-05-04 08:38:22 PM  

mikefinch: namegoeshere: They are in no way contributing to the sacrament of marriage. They aren't marrying the couple. There is no cake in a wedding ceremony. They're baking a cake for the party after the ceremony. They're baking the same cake they bake for every other  couple. They are specifically denying that same cake to the gay couple. And again, it has fark all to do with your kosher deli example.

Lets say i hunt allot and i have a great picture of myself stabbing a deer in the face... And i take it in to a framing shop owned by a PETA ultravegan... and the guy politely tells me he cant open his business towards something he feels glorifies killing animals... Its against his values...

Is he a bigot?


Yes, but all vegans and PETA members are.
 
2014-05-04 08:38:50 PM  
Many so called christians don't do what they say. If they understood the basics of christ's teaching, this wouldn't be an issue.img.fark.net
 
2014-05-04 08:47:16 PM  

jso2897: Let's put this in perspective. Let us suppose that our hypothetical subject is not a homophobic bigot, but a pedophile. Let us further suppose that this person frequently expresses the sentiment that having sex with small children is a great thing, and that people should do it more often. Let us further suppose that he perhaps publishes a blog that also expresses these sentiments. Let us even further supposes that he makes frequent donations to NAMBLA, and is unapologetic about it.
Now - who here wishes to do business with, associate with, work with, or employ this person? What? None of you?
Quelle surprise.
That's because it's UNACCEPTABLE.
Period.
Well, the only thing that is changing is that bigotry regarding innate characteristics is joining that short list of views that are not acceptable among the civilized. Nothing else has changed. There have always been things one could not say without severe consequences. It's just the things themselves that change, over time.
It's too bad some people don't like bigotry being add to the list - but, time goes on, and things change.
Society is not becoming any less tolerant of transgressive views than it ever has - probably a bit more so.
Some people just think it is, because views they are comfortable with are becoming unacceptable.


It really never occurred to me how strongly analogous are the anti-gay bigot and pedophiles. Both the anti-gay bigot and pedophiles hold deviant sexual views that, when expressed, are harmful to the mental health of children. Optimally, both the anti-gay bigot and pedophiles would be denied contact with children of any kind at all.

Thank you for presenting that angle on this. Always exciting to get a fresh perspective.
 
2014-05-04 08:48:19 PM  

Bob Robert: Fafai: Wow. I've been posting for over a year and have made no effort to hide my sexuality here on fark. But you just know everything about others' motivation more than they do, don't you? You're the king of puttign words in others' mouths (often changin their meaning 180 degrees) in order to win simplistic binary arguments. I've watched you do it to numerous people in your two weeks here.


Your trolling is really getting desperate here. If you don't see the problem with supporting a business that wants to take away your basic human rights then there is no hope left for you. Keep white knighting for the conservative trolls, you're doing God's work.


I'm pregnant
 
2014-05-04 08:48:44 PM  

fluffy2097: [bloggingblue.com image 727x851]
/The Gayroller is coming for you.


Doesn't this sound familiar to Sen Goldwater's quoted about the Christian Right taking over the GOP.
 
2014-05-04 08:49:38 PM  

mikefinch: namegoeshere: They are in no way contributing to the sacrament of marriage. They aren't marrying the couple. There is no cake in a wedding ceremony. They're baking a cake for the party after the ceremony. They're baking the same cake they bake for every other  couple. They are specifically denying that same cake to the gay couple. And again, it has fark all to do with your kosher deli example.

Lets say i hunt allot and i have a great picture of myself stabbing a deer in the face... And i take it in to a framing shop owned by a PETA ultravegan... and the guy politely tells me he cant open his business towards something he feels glorifies killing animals... Its against his values...

Is he a bigot?


This also is not an equivalent example. If the business owner refused to frame your facial stabbing pic because you were gay hunting, but agreed to frame the exact same pic for other customers who were straight hunting, then it would be a similar situation. If the bakery owner was offended by wedding cakes in general, and refused to bake wedding cakes for all customers regardless of sexual orientation, then again, it would be a similar situation. The problem comes from agreeing to provide a service for some customers and denying the identical service to others based on their sexual orientation.
 
2014-05-04 08:50:46 PM  

mikefinch: namegoeshere: They are in no way contributing to the sacrament of marriage. They aren't marrying the couple. There is no cake in a wedding ceremony. They're baking a cake for the party after the ceremony. They're baking the same cake they bake for every other  couple. They are specifically denying that same cake to the gay couple. And again, it has fark all to do with your kosher deli example.

Lets say i hunt allot and i have a great picture of myself stabbing a deer in the face... And i take it in to a framing shop owned by a PETA ultravegan... and the guy politely tells me he cant open his business towards something he feels glorifies killing animals... Its against his values...

Is he a bigot?


Also, if you were hunting allot, why were you stabbing deer?
 
2014-05-04 08:51:45 PM  

moogoob: Bob Robert: Fafai: Wow. I've been posting for over a year and have made no effort to hide my sexuality here on fark. But you just know everything about others' motivation more than they do, don't you? You're the king of puttign words in others' mouths (often changin their meaning 180 degrees) in order to win simplistic binary arguments. I've watched you do it to numerous people in your two weeks here.


Your trolling is really getting desperate here. If you don't see the problem with supporting a business that wants to take away your basic human rights then there is no hope left for you. Keep white knighting for the conservative trolls, you're doing God's work.

I'm pregnant


HA! Filtowned. :p
 
2014-05-04 08:52:16 PM  

Bertuccio: namegoeshere: ricbach229: notto: ricbach229: ]

The guy pushed out at Mozilla was fired for donating to a prop 8 support group that had their donor list illegally released.

This is absolutely untrue and you are spreading a lie.  The donor list was legally released by the California Secretary of state as mandated by law.  Quit  spreading lies.

Thanks for being an asshole while calling me a liar over a mistake.  I didn't realize California had a $100 threshold for disclosure of donations to non politicians.

I notice you didn't correct me on the private phone call Stirlings had or the bakers case where they are essentially a kosher deli being forced to serve an unkosher cake.

Please explain this. What makes a kosher deli kosher is not their refusal to serve a particular customer. It is the list of ingredients that they do not use in their food. What ingredient is included in Gay Cake that is forbidden in Christian cake? Because that would be the only way the two situations would be at all the same.

Gay ingredients... Cumin?

Maybe someone else can do better.


GIS for "gay cake" :

www.cakeandart.com/hot

It's really pretty : )
 
2014-05-04 08:53:57 PM  

mikefinch: namegoeshere: They are in no way contributing to the sacrament of marriage. They aren't marrying the couple. There is no cake in a wedding ceremony. They're baking a cake for the party after the ceremony. They're baking the same cake they bake for every other  couple. They are specifically denying that same cake to the gay couple. And again, it has fark all to do with your kosher deli example.

Lets say i hunt allot and i have a great picture of myself stabbing a deer in the face... And i take it in to a framing shop owned by a PETA ultravegan... and the guy politely tells me he cant open his business towards something he feels glorifies killing animals... Its against his values...

Is he a bigot?


Maybe, maybe not - but you would certainly be reasonable to take it as such, and withhold your business from him in future, and advise your associates to do the same.
Whether very many others would agree with you is another matter altogether.
 
2014-05-04 08:56:39 PM  
Warning: GIS for "gay camo" did not go so well...
 
2014-05-04 08:58:31 PM  

mikefinch: namegoeshere: They are in no way contributing to the sacrament of marriage. They aren't marrying the couple. There is no cake in a wedding ceremony. They're baking a cake for the party after the ceremony. They're baking the same cake they bake for every other  couple. They are specifically denying that same cake to the gay couple. And again, it has fark all to do with your kosher deli example.

Lets say i hunt allot and i have a great picture of myself stabbing a deer in the face... And i take it in to a framing shop owned by a PETA ultravegan... and the guy politely tells me he cant open his business towards something he feels glorifies killing animals... Its against his values...

Is he a bigot?


Your picture is not a person. If he refused to frame a picture for you because of who you are then that might be similar. A baker can say he wont bake fruitcake.
 
2014-05-04 08:59:47 PM  

Baz744: jso2897: Let's put this in perspective. Let us suppose that our hypothetical subject is not a homophobic bigot, but a pedophile. Let us further suppose that this person frequently expresses the sentiment that having sex with small children is a great thing, and that people should do it more often. Let us further suppose that he perhaps publishes a blog that also expresses these sentiments. Let us even further supposes that he makes frequent donations to NAMBLA, and is unapologetic about it.
Now - who here wishes to do business with, associate with, work with, or employ this person? What? None of you?
Quelle surprise.
That's because it's UNACCEPTABLE.
Period.
Well, the only thing that is changing is that bigotry regarding innate characteristics is joining that short list of views that are not acceptable among the civilized. Nothing else has changed. There have always been things one could not say without severe consequences. It's just the things themselves that change, over time.
It's too bad some people don't like bigotry being add to the list - but, time goes on, and things change.
Society is not becoming any less tolerant of transgressive views than it ever has - probably a bit more so.
Some people just think it is, because views they are comfortable with are becoming unacceptable.

It really never occurred to me how strongly analogous are the anti-gay bigot and pedophiles. Both the anti-gay bigot and pedophiles hold deviant sexual views that, when expressed, are harmful to the mental health of children. Optimally, both the anti-gay bigot and pedophiles would be denied contact with children of any kind at all.

Thank you for presenting that angle on this. Always exciting to get a fresh perspective.


THAT'S what you got out of what I said?
Jesus H. Christ - i give up.
 
2014-05-04 09:00:04 PM  

namegoeshere: This also is not an equivalent example. If the business owner refused to frame your facial stabbing pic because you were gay hunting, but agreed to frame the exact same pic for other customers who were straight hunting, then it would be a similar situation. If the bakery owner was offended by wedding cakes in general, and refused to bake wedding cakes for all customers regardless of sexual orientation, then again, it would be a similar situation. The problem comes from agreeing to provide a service for some customers and denying the identical service to others based on their sexual orientation.


No. You are wrong. The frames are like the cake and the photo is like the little statue on the top of the cake. The problem is you think its ok to fight bigotry by being a bigot against bigots.

The only way we can ever stop the hate is to stop it within ourselves. Just take a deep breath, relax, and take your money somewhere else.
 
2014-05-04 09:04:21 PM  

Enemabag Jones: It is called keeping your personal life personal, and your business life outside of your religious life.

And if you don't want to put two grooms on the top of a cake then don't open a bakery.


This is bullshiat.
 
2014-05-04 09:07:28 PM  

mikefinch: namegoeshere: This also is not an equivalent example. If the business owner refused to frame your facial stabbing pic because you were gay hunting, but agreed to frame the exact same pic for other customers who were straight hunting, then it would be a similar situation. If the bakery owner was offended by wedding cakes in general, and refused to bake wedding cakes for all customers regardless of sexual orientation, then again, it would be a similar situation. The problem comes from agreeing to provide a service for some customers and denying the identical service to others based on their sexual orientation.

No. You are wrong. The frames are like the cake and the photo is like the little statue on the top of the cake. The problem is you think its ok to fight bigotry by being a bigot against bigots.

The only way we can ever stop the hate is to stop it within ourselves. Just take a deep breath, relax, and take your money somewhere else.


Let's see if I get this straight.  Refusing to patronize a business because they won't serve certain types of customers is being bigoted toward bigots, so instead we should chose to patronize a different business.  I don't think you've thought your cunning argument all the way through.
 
2014-05-04 09:08:56 PM  

namegoeshere: mikefinch: namegoeshere: They are in no way contributing to the sacrament of marriage. They aren't marrying the couple. There is no cake in a wedding ceremony. They're baking a cake for the party after the ceremony. They're baking the same cake they bake for every other  couple. They are specifically denying that same cake to the gay couple. And again, it has fark all to do with your kosher deli example.

Lets say i hunt allot and i have a great picture of myself stabbing a deer in the face... And i take it in to a framing shop owned by a PETA ultravegan... and the guy politely tells me he cant open his business towards something he feels glorifies killing animals... Its against his values...

Is he a bigot?

This also is not an equivalent example. If the business owner refused to frame your facial stabbing pic because you were gay hunting, but agreed to frame the exact same pic for other customers who were straight hunting, then it would be a similar situation. If the bakery owner was offended by wedding cakes in general, and refused to bake wedding cakes for all customers regardless of sexual orientation, then again, it would be a similar situation. The problem comes from agreeing to provide a service for some customers and denying the identical service to others based on their sexual orientation.


Ahhh. I just understood the right-wing fixation on the whole wedding cake thing. It's because your typical conservative lacks the intelligence to distinguish between "public commercial activities" and "private religious activities." When conservatives whine about being "forced at gunpoint to bake a cake for a homo," they think the next step is forcing churches to perform gay wedding ceremonies.
 
2014-05-04 09:11:39 PM  

ricbach229: The bakers sell a wedding cake as a contribution to the marriage sacrament.  Something as small as the male/female figure on the top of the cake is a part of it.  Now they're being forced to change the cakes decorations from what they artistically believe appropriate and sell to people who are not even committing the sacrament. In the case in Colorado the baker had made other products without any problem for the couple in question.  It was only when it came to the wedding cake that the baker said no, this is different, can't do it.



I've got bad news for you, sunshine.  Nobody gives a crap about your "sacraments."  If I murder your grandmother, and during the trial I say, "Sure, I killed her, but only when it got to the point that letting her live violated my religion's sacraments," I don't think that's gonna play to well in court.  Nor should it.

Generally I try to respect other people's religions, but when it comes to using it to justify discriminating against gays, or women (or any other group, really), then you can shove your precious sacraments up your ass.

Serve every customer equally regardless of race or creed or anything else, or pay the penalty for failing to do so, and tough cookies about your "sacraments."
 
2014-05-04 09:12:12 PM  

mikefinch: namegoeshere: This also is not an equivalent example. If the business owner refused to frame your facial stabbing pic because you were gay hunting, but agreed to frame the exact same pic for other customers who were straight hunting, then it would be a similar situation. If the bakery owner was offended by wedding cakes in general, and refused to bake wedding cakes for all customers regardless of sexual orientation, then again, it would be a similar situation. The problem comes from agreeing to provide a service for some customers and denying the identical service to others based on their sexual orientation.

No. You are wrong. The frames are like the cake and the photo is like the little statue on the top of the cake. The problem is you think its ok to fight bigotry by being a bigot against bigots.

The only way we can ever stop the hate is to stop it within ourselves. Just take a deep breath, relax, and take your money somewhere else.


Bullshiat. This had fark all to do with putting two man figures on top of a cake:

Mullins and Craig married in Massachussets and had originally gone to Masterpiece in July 2012 because they wanted to a cake for their wedding reception in Colorado. When Phillips refused, the pair went to the American Civil Liberties Union, which filed a complaint with the Colorado Civil Rights Commission (CCRC) on their behalf.
According to the complaint, Phillips told the couple that the store policy was to deny service to customers who wished to order baked goods for a same-sex wedding, based on his religious beliefs.
Phillips told the men, "I'll make you birthday cakes, shower cakes, sell you cookies and brownies, I just don't make cakes for same-sex weddings."

The store owner admits outright that he is denying a service, a wedding cake, toppers not an issue, the same wedding cake as he would happily make for a straight couple, to a gay couple only because they are a gay couple. No other reason.

It is not bigotry in the slightest to refuse to patronize a business because they refuse service based on sexual orientation. It is not religious persecution to refuse to patronize a business for this reason. So quit whining about how all those who would not give our dollars to a business who treats their customers so poorly are persecuting them for their beliefs. They are free to believe whatever they want. But when they base their business practices on these unpopular beliefs, they will not be magically immune to the consequences.
 
2014-05-04 09:13:50 PM  

Waldo Pepper: A Christian should be known by their actions especially in the business world. Taking care of all customers is the mark of a good Christian business.

What happen to judging a business of the quality and fairness of their product/service and not their beliefs.


When they make their private beliefs part of their public business, it becomes an issue.

I couldn't care less that the HobbyLobby owners are fundamentalists, even when they closed on Sundays (lots of business pick a day of the week to be closed)....but when they decided that they shouldn't have to follow the same rules as other businesses due to their private religious beliefs, it becomes an issue for me. Now I want to make sure that my money doesn't help to fund their efforts to obtain some sort of special treatment from the gov't due to religion. So I don't shop there. Don't care that the chik-fil-a folks are fundies or where they spent their money, until it became apparent that they were firing good employees when they were found to be gay. That isn't ok, and it brings their private beliefs into the public arena. So I no longer eat there either.

Your religious beliefs don't make you special. Deal with it.
 
2014-05-04 09:15:40 PM  

gaspode: mikefinch: namegoeshere: They are in no way contributing to the sacrament of marriage. They aren't marrying the couple. There is no cake in a wedding ceremony. They're baking a cake for the party after the ceremony. They're baking the same cake they bake for every other  couple. They are specifically denying that same cake to the gay couple. And again, it has fark all to do with your kosher deli example.

Lets say i hunt allot and i have a great picture of myself stabbing a deer in the face... And i take it in to a framing shop owned by a PETA ultravegan... and the guy politely tells me he cant open his business towards something he feels glorifies killing animals... Its against his values...

Is he a bigot?

Your picture is not a person. If he refused to frame a picture for you because of who you are then that might be similar. A baker can say he wont bake fruitcake.


agreed. Anytime a business refuses to take care of a customer and the reason given is "we don't want your kind in here" and "your kind" isn't something illegal that would be the problem.  

a business can turn away a type of business. a garage can refuse to work on a car that is beyond their ability or isn't worth working on. a barber can refuse to cut dirty lice infested hair, a dry cleaner can refuse to clean the KKK hood if they don't have the equipment that the hood will fit on.
 
2014-05-04 09:18:07 PM  

jso2897: THAT'S what you got out of what I said?
Jesus H. Christ - i give up.


No, that was me expanding on what you said. You analogized the expression of anti-gay views to the expression of pro-pedophile views to show that the expression of some views aren't acceptable in civilized society.

I thought that was a good analogy, so I expanded on it. I compared specific attributes anti-gay bigots and pedophiles have in common; to wit, holding of deviant views about sexuality, and danger to the mental health of children.
 
2014-05-04 09:19:34 PM  

namegoeshere: Fafai: Fafai: I'm with you. I'm as queer as a $3

Fafai: /and im not fully gay but im enthusiatically less than straight if that makes any difference

This might be where the confusion is coming from. I got no dog in your fight with BR, but I admit thinking that you were adjusting your sexuality to best fit the conversation at the moment. If I'm wrong, please say so, but that's how it came off.


First, maybe he's bisexual or questioning, or transgender or something.  If he says he's queer, do we really need a precise measurement of just HOW queer he is?

And second, why does it matter anyway?  Do you have to be gay to support gay rights?  Do you have to be black to oppose racism?
 
2014-05-04 09:29:06 PM  

ricbach229: The cake is a part of the celebration of the blessing.  Hell, I've got an uncle-in-law that wouldn't visit my house because my wife and I weren't married yet and were living together.  After the marriage he talked to his priest about if it was appropriate because she is Catholic and we didn't have a Catholic service (outdoors in fact) so it wasn't recognized by the Church.  I think he's visited once and he said the prayers before we ate. I can easily believe a person of conscience could have a strong religious desire not to contribute any type of blessing on a service that violates the tenets of their church.


Sure, people believe all sorts of stupid crap.  That doesn't mean we should applaud them for it.

As often happens, H.L. Mencken said it best:  "We must respect the other fellow's religion but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart."
 
2014-05-04 09:30:54 PM  

ciberido: namegoeshere: Fafai: Fafai: I'm with you. I'm as queer as a $3

Fafai: /and im not fully gay but im enthusiatically less than straight if that makes any difference

This might be where the confusion is coming from. I got no dog in your fight with BR, but I admit thinking that you were adjusting your sexuality to best fit the conversation at the moment. If I'm wrong, please say so, but that's how it came off.

First, maybe he's bisexual or questioning, or transgender or something.  If he says he's queer, do we really need a precise measurement of just HOW queer he is?

And second, why does it matter anyway?  Do you have to be gay to support gay rights?  Do you have to be black to oppose racism?


Absolutely not. I was stating a possible reason why another poster questioned whether he was pretending to be something other than what he is. I shouldn't have gotten caught up in the pissing match between two farkers. I apologize, Fafai, if it sounded like I was trying to deny you the right to be whatever you identify as. Not my intent at all.
 
2014-05-04 09:32:04 PM  

Baz744: jso2897: THAT'S what you got out of what I said?
Jesus H. Christ - i give up.

No, that was me expanding on what you said. You analogized the expression of anti-gay views to the expression of pro-pedophile views to show that the expression of some views aren't acceptable in civilized society.

I thought that was a good analogy, so I expanded on it. I compared specific attributes anti-gay bigots and pedophiles have in common; to wit, holding of deviant views about sexuality, and danger to the mental health of children.


As long as it's clearly understood that I was talking about the advocacy of pedophilia, and not it's actual practice, which is a crime.
 
2014-05-04 09:54:32 PM  

namegoeshere: ricbach229: The cake is a part of the celebration of the blessing. Hell, I've got an uncle-in-law that wouldn't visit my house because my wife and I weren't married yet and were living together. After the marriage he talked to his priest about if it was appropriate because she is Catholic and we didn't have a Catholic service (outdoors in fact) so it wasn't recognized by the Church. I think he's visited once and he said the prayers before we ate. I can easily believe a person of conscience could have a strong religious desire not to contribute any type of blessing on a service that violates the tenets of their church

No one will ever hold a gun to their heads and force them to bake a wedding cake for a gay couple. They are free to refuse - if they are willing to deal with the consequences of their actions.


I guess that depends on how literally you mean "hold a gun to their heads."  They broke the law and may face civil penalties.  Sure, it's not a death threat but we are living in a nation where a person risks fines (and maybe even jail time) for refusing to serve gay customers.  And I'm ok with that, but let's be scrupulously honest about what's at stake here, lest the folks on "the other side" accuse us of downplaying or being dishonest about the issue.
 
2014-05-04 10:07:28 PM  

ciberido: namegoeshere: ricbach229: The cake is a part of the celebration of the blessing. Hell, I've got an uncle-in-law that wouldn't visit my house because my wife and I weren't married yet and were living together. After the marriage he talked to his priest about if it was appropriate because she is Catholic and we didn't have a Catholic service (outdoors in fact) so it wasn't recognized by the Church. I think he's visited once and he said the prayers before we ate. I can easily believe a person of conscience could have a strong religious desire not to contribute any type of blessing on a service that violates the tenets of their church

No one will ever hold a gun to their heads and force them to bake a wedding cake for a gay couple. They are free to refuse - if they are willing to deal with the consequences of their actions.

I guess that depends on how literally you mean "hold a gun to their heads."  They broke the law and may face civil penalties.  Sure, it's not a death threat but we are living in a nation where a person risks fines (and maybe even jail time) for refusing to serve gay customers.  And I'm ok with that, but let's be scrupulously honest about what's at stake here, lest the folks on "the other side" accuse us of downplaying or being dishonest about the issue.


is there an acceptable line.  Can a wedding photographer refuse to shoot a gay wedding? can a gay graphic designer refuse to do a job for a christian group?

Personally I think it would be great if a business can serve a customer without worrying about any fallout from other customers. but that day will never happen
 
2014-05-04 10:21:35 PM  

ciberido: namegoeshere: ricbach229: The cake is a part of the celebration of the blessing. Hell, I've got an uncle-in-law that wouldn't visit my house because my wife and I weren't married yet and were living together. After the marriage he talked to his priest about if it was appropriate because she is Catholic and we didn't have a Catholic service (outdoors in fact) so it wasn't recognized by the Church. I think he's visited once and he said the prayers before we ate. I can easily believe a person of conscience could have a strong religious desire not to contribute any type of blessing on a service that violates the tenets of their church

No one will ever hold a gun to their heads and force them to bake a wedding cake for a gay couple. They are free to refuse - if they are willing to deal with the consequences of their actions.

I guess that depends on how literally you mean "hold a gun to their heads."  They broke the law and may face civil penalties.  Sure, it's not a death threat but we are living in a nation where a person risks fines (and maybe even jail time) for refusing to serve gay customers.  And I'm ok with that, but let's be scrupulously honest about what's at stake here, lest the folks on "the other side" accuse us of downplaying or being dishonest about the issue.


I read a great quote years ago about freedom. I wish I remembered it exactly, and who said it. Basically, we all have infinite freedom. We are all free to do whatever the hell we want, as long as we understand and accept the consequences of our actions. I am free to walk into my local bank tomorrow with a gun and demand a whole bunch o' money. I may even get it. However, I understand and accept the consequences of my actions for that, that I would probably suck at bank robbing and would most likely be caught and jailed for a very long time, and even if I got away with it I would feel really bad because bank robbery goes against my moral code. Therefore, although I would love some extra money and am completely free to try my hand at bank robbery, I choose not to do so, as my desire for quick and easy cash is outweighed by the consequences that would come from my actions.

It's late and I'm tired, so I'm having a hard time thinking of an example where my urge to do the unpopular/illegal thing outweighed the consequences - okay, this one's lame, but like I said, I'm tired: Let's say I wanted to engage in a peaceful protest for an issue about which I feel strongly. I am free to do so, as long as I accept that things might go pear shaped and I might be injured or arrested. If I feel strongly enough about the protesty thing to accept the possible consequences, I will go ahead with the protest. And if I am in jail with swollen, tear-gassed eyes, I need to accept that that happened because I made the choice to protest.

So that's where I was going with that. The business owner is free to refuse service to the gay couple, as long as he accepts the consequences of doing so - those consequences being a loss of customers, stiff fines, even the loss of the business. If their conviction that the need for the refusal of service outweighs the negative consequences, then they will continue to refuse the service. That there are serious consequences involved does not deny them the freedom to refuse the service.

That they operate the business in a state where their refusal of service to the gay couple is breaking the law, then they need to do so only after acknowledging and accepting the consequences of breaking that law. They can't break the law and then claim religious persecution for experiences the consequences of breaking said law.
 
2014-05-04 10:23:03 PM  
One thing listed in that article is definitely true: being a soldier is an unfit profession for a real "Christian." What part of loving your enemies and treating people how you want to be treated was unclear in the Bible? But ah, I guess we can just totally ignore crucial parts of a religion and just make up whatever to justify being a douchebag.

/so much for love thy enemy
 
2014-05-04 10:37:06 PM  

iron de havilland: MrHappyRotter: It's very true. As a raging homosexual, I've personally destroyed several Christian businesses and I've seen to it that hundreds of Christians have lost their jobs. The problem isn't so much that we hate Christians, which we do, trust me, it's just that for every Christian business we shut down, our penis gets an inch bigger. And for every Christian we get fired, another pleasure nerve develops in our anal sphincter. You really can't compete with biology, so I'd recommend you just try to relax, and I promise I'll be gentle.

Are you OK with your posts being highlighted in green 3?

I'll change it if you want.


Green 2 is more flattering, or so I've been told.
 
2014-05-04 10:39:30 PM  

Waldo Pepper: is there an acceptable line.  Can a wedding photographer refuse to shoot a gay wedding? can a gay graphic designer refuse to do a job for a christian group?


Nope. You cannot refuse a service that you would normally provide to anyone else.

I really don't see why this is so hard to get, other than if you're being intentionally obtuse.
 
2014-05-04 10:50:37 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: Waldo Pepper: is there an acceptable line.  Can a wedding photographer refuse to shoot a gay wedding? can a gay graphic designer refuse to do a job for a christian group?

Nope. You cannot refuse a service that you would normally provide to anyone else.

I really don't see why this is so hard to get, other than if you're being intentionally obtuse.


actually i was asking a question. Is there an acceptable line that all would agree on. 

as an example and only from a legal standpoint:
A small graphic design firm that tends to specialize in logos/graphics for gay rights groups is contacted by a southern baptist church to do their new logo.  Can they say No we don't do Christian logos as it might lose us our core business?
 
2014-05-04 10:57:54 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: Yeah, what THEY^^^ said.

These assholes are all "free market capitalists", until the free market curb stomps  them.  Then they demand protection.


stenglelaw.com

Anti-free markets? Protection? Which side are you arguing against? It's the side that favors anti-discrimination laws that is anti-free market and protectionist. There's nothing "free market" about using the force of law to violate a person's right to freedom of association. I think you have your terms confused. Either that or you totally misunderstood what Orwell was writing about.
 
2014-05-04 11:03:19 PM  

Waldo Pepper: actually i was asking a question. Is there an acceptable line that all would agree on.


Actually I was answering the question.

Waldo Pepper: as an example and only from a legal standpoint:
A small graphic design firm that tends to specialize in logos/graphics for gay rights groups is contacted by a southern baptist church to do their new logo.  Can they say No we don't do Christian logos as it might lose us our core business?


Seriously, what about my answer was so goddamn hard to understand?
 
2014-05-04 11:06:49 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: Waldo Pepper: actually i was asking a question. Is there an acceptable line that all would agree on.

Actually I was answering the question.

Waldo Pepper: as an example and only from a legal standpoint:
A small graphic design firm that tends to specialize in logos/graphics for gay rights groups is contacted by a southern baptist church to do their new logo.  Can they say No we don't do Christian logos as it might lose us our core business?

Seriously, what about my answer was so goddamn hard to understand?


you don't answer questions, you shout and demean anyone who doesn't agree with you. I don't watch fox news for the very same reasons. you both are worthy of being ignored.
 
2014-05-04 11:14:19 PM  

Waldo Pepper: cameroncrazy1984: Waldo Pepper: actually i was asking a question. Is there an acceptable line that all would agree on.

Actually I was answering the question.

Waldo Pepper: as an example and only from a legal standpoint:
A small graphic design firm that tends to specialize in logos/graphics for gay rights groups is contacted by a southern baptist church to do their new logo.  Can they say No we don't do Christian logos as it might lose us our core business?

Seriously, what about my answer was so goddamn hard to understand?

you don't answer questions, you shout and demean anyone who doesn't agree with you. I don't watch fox news for the very same reasons. you both are worthy of being ignored.


Dude. Just because I didn't give you an answer that you liked did not mean I did not answer the question.

Here it is again, in big bold letters, my answer to the question that you seem to not see:

Nope. You cannot refuse a service that you would normally provide to anyone else.
 
2014-05-04 11:25:19 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: Nope. You cannot refuse a service that you would normally provide to anyone else.


The business can refuse service if they want to, it's their right. As a business though, they need to be careful when they refuse service as it may hurt them. A company that openly supports gay rights refusing to do business with a Baptist group might actually see an increase rather than a decline and it would make good business sense to turn them down. Is that morally right? Maybe, maybe not.
 
2014-05-04 11:26:59 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: Nope. You cannot refuse a service that you would normally provide to anyone else.


And why not? I do all the time. Granted, it's for reasons of proprietary intellectual property protection and not because someone is gay or black or whatever, but I do it as I see fit. What happens if the person I refuse just happens to be gay? Or black?
 
2014-05-04 11:35:15 PM  

Baz744: thismomentinblackhistory: Baz744: Here's the thing that gets me about gay opponents. They're all so "up in your face" about their "disapproval" of homosexuality. They have to broadcast it everywhere they go. They put it on their bumper stickers, they wear it on their t-shirts, or they pin it to themselves on a button. They just refuse to keep their lifestyles to themselves.

I don't care if people want to disapprove of homosexuality in the privacy of their own homes. Whatever revolting things they want to do on their own time in their own place is fine.

But if you decide to flaunt your perverted gay hate everywhere you go, don't be surprised when there are consequences. Don't be surprised if employers don't want anything to do with you. Don't be surprised if your normal friends with good morals abandon you. Don't be surprised if even your own family rejects you.

Keep your gay hate in the closet where it belongs.

Beautiful.

Next on the agenda:

Are anti-gay attitudes chosen? Or do they arise from genetics?


There are other possibilities besides those two, such as perinatal hormonal influence (which may be a significant factor in male homosexuality).  But there is mounting evidence that whether you eventually become a Conservative or Liberal has more to do with how your brain was working even back in kindergarten than what you learned in school or some conscious choice you made in your teens or later.

To a certain extent, Social Conservationism is linked with fear, disgust, aversion, and xenophobia.  To be fair, there are also positive traits like honor, duty, tradition, and family that are also associated.  But the negative traits I listed are generally (I think) the roots from which homophobia grow.  The idea that homosexuality is weird, dangerous, and disgusting fits very well with the aversion-type mentality that is much more associated with the socially conservative than the socially liberal.
 
2014-05-04 11:36:40 PM  

pwhp_67: cameroncrazy1984: Nope. You cannot refuse a service that you would normally provide to anyone else.

The business can refuse service if they want to, it's their right. As a business though, they need to be careful when they refuse service as it may hurt them. A company that openly supports gay rights refusing to do business with a Baptist group might actually see an increase rather than a decline and it would make good business sense to turn them down. Is that morally right? Maybe, maybe not.


This is what i was getting at.  In a big city or populated area a bakery owner baking a cake for a gay wedding might have little to no harm to the bakery. but move that bakery to a small southern town and the baking the cake could cause the bakery to lose the majority of it's business.
 
2014-05-04 11:40:16 PM  

Bertuccio: namegoeshere: Please explain this. What makes a kosher deli kosher is not their refusal to serve a particular customer. It is the list of ingredients that they do not use in their food. What ingredient is included in Gay Cake that is forbidden in Christian cake? Because that would be the only way the two situations would be at all the same.

Gay ingredients... Cumin?


www.connectsavannah.com


Are you saying that deadoes are all gay?

 
2014-05-04 11:42:12 PM  

pwhp_67: The business can refuse service if they want to, it's their right.


WRONG

Where the fark do people keep getting this dumbass idea?  If you are open to the public then you have to serve the public.  If your customers are not violating the law or disrupting your business, you don't get to decide you don't feel like serving them.
 
2014-05-04 11:44:50 PM  

Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: pwhp_67: The business can refuse service if they want to, it's their right.

WRONG

Where the fark do people keep getting this dumbass idea?  If you are open to the public then you have to serve the public.  If your customers are not violating the law or disrupting your business, you don't get to decide you don't feel like serving them.


Actually that isn't accurate either.  There are various reasons you can refuse to serve a customer those reasons can't be based on race/religion/gender/sexual preference.
 
2014-05-04 11:46:02 PM  

Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: pwhp_67: The business can refuse service if they want to, it's their right.

WRONG

Where the fark do people keep getting this dumbass idea?


Maybe they get the idea from an understanding of what freedom is, or from the understanding of what the constitutional limits of governmental authority are.
 
2014-05-04 11:56:14 PM  

DrPainMD: Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: pwhp_67: The business can refuse service if they want to, it's their right.

WRONG

Where the fark do people keep getting this dumbass idea?

Maybe they get the idea from an understanding of what freedom is, or from the understanding of what the constitutional limits of governmental authority are.

Did you read that on a bumpersticker at the Army/Navy store?
 
2014-05-05 12:14:58 AM  

DrPainMD: Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: pwhp_67: The business can refuse service if they want to, it's their right.

WRONG

Where the fark do people keep getting this dumbass idea?

Maybe they get the idea from an understanding of what freedom is, or from the understanding of what the constitutional limits of governmental authority are.


If by "understanding," you mean "Complete misunderstanding," sure.
 
2014-05-05 12:16:33 AM  
I'm against marriage, and I don't live anywhere near a Chik-Fil-A. I'm persecuting you twice as hard.

Though if I owned an occult shop, I would totally sell bibles.
 
2014-05-05 12:40:01 AM  

moogoob: Bob Robert: Fafai: Wow. I've been posting for over a year and have made no effort to hide my sexuality here on fark. But you just know everything about others' motivation more than they do, don't you? You're the king of puttign words in others' mouths (often changin their meaning 180 degrees) in order to win simplistic binary arguments. I've watched you do it to numerous people in your two weeks here.


Your trolling is really getting desperate here. If you don't see the problem with supporting a business that wants to take away your basic human rights then there is no hope left for you. Keep white knighting for the conservative trolls, you're doing God's work.

I'm pregnant


So... you read the idiot I was replying to, and felt the need to call me the troll here? You might be blinded by emotions.
 
2014-05-05 12:41:09 AM  

slotz: Enemabag Jones: It is called keeping your personal life personal, and your business life outside of your religious life.

And if you don't want to put two grooms on the top of a cake then don't open a bakery.

This is bullshiat.


You should also have a right to deny an interracial couple because it is against your beliefs, right?
 
2014-05-05 12:42:29 AM  

DrPainMD: There's nothing "free market" about using the force of law to violate a person's right to freedom of association.


Freedom of association? I love it when libertarians make up claims that they think exist. Economic freedom. Freedom of association. What else do you believe in the Constitution backs up your right to be a bigot in business?
 
2014-05-05 12:47:54 AM  

mikefinch: Lets say i hunt allot and i have a great picture of myself stabbing a deer in the face... And i take it in to a framing shop owned by a PETA ultravegan... and the guy politely tells me he cant open his business towards something he feels glorifies killing animals... Its against his values...

Is he a bigot?


One of the issues involved is that hunting is something you DO, whereas homosexuality is something you ARE.  It shouldn't matter: if we lived in a more rational world, people would agree that discriminating against homosexuals (and other lbqt folk) is wrong even if it were a choice.  But sadly, in this imperfect and irrational world in which we live, it does matter in the minds of a lot of folk, and it also has some bearing on sexual orientation's status as a protected class in US law.

So a problem with your analogy is that a hunter has the choice to stop hunting.  Despite what many people claim, a homosexual really doesn't have the choice to stop being gay.

Additionally, in Loving v. Virginia, the US Supreme Court ruled that marriage is one of the "basic civil rights of man," whereas, so far as I know, neither hunting nor getting a picture framed is.  So again, your analogy is not perfect.

That's not to say, however, that your question isn't interesting and deserving of a response.
 
2014-05-05 12:49:29 AM  

Miss Alexandra: Well, for every gay that wants to purposely wreck a Christian's livelihood out of hate, there is likely at least one Christian who will be a customer.

You don't go into an occult shop and demand they stock King James Bibles.  Likewise, if a Christian--obeying their conscience--doesn't want to be involved in your so-called "wedding," just find someone with no morals or make it yourself.

I think most people have the sense to know that these gays are just being hateful and spiteful.  "Waaahhh...we can't get these guys to tolerate our perverted lifestyle!  Let's make sure we put them out of business!"

/just disgusted right now


img.fark.net
 
2014-05-05 01:45:10 AM  

Waldo Pepper: ciberido: I guess that depends on how literally you mean "hold a gun to their heads."  They broke the law and may face civil penalties.  Sure, it's not a death threat but we are living in a nation where a person risks fines (and maybe even jail time) for refusing to serve gay customers.  And I'm ok with that, but let's be scrupulously honest about what's at stake here, lest the folks on "the other side" accuse us of downplaying or being dishonest about the issue.

is there an acceptable line.  Can a wedding photographer refuse to shoot a gay wedding? can a gay graphic designer refuse to do a job for a christian group?


Religion and sexual orientation are both protected classes, so no.
 
2014-05-05 02:10:21 AM  

Enemabag Jones: It is called keeping your personal life personal, and your business life outside of your religious life.

And if you don't want to put two grooms on the top of a cake then don't open a bakery.


See, you say that, but 40 years ago the idea of such a cake was unthinkable. A lot of people are caught up in a changing time with an honest conscience and no actual hate for their fellow man.

Would you bid fair market value to do construction work or make Westboro's protest signs?

What about something more mainstream, like the NRA?

There are plenty of activities and jobs someone might feel consciously inclined to avoid.
 
2014-05-05 02:32:47 AM  

cameroncrazy1984: DrPainMD: Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: pwhp_67: The business can refuse service if they want to, it's their right.

WRONG

Where the fark do people keep getting this dumbass idea?

Maybe they get the idea from an understanding of what freedom is, or from the understanding of what the constitutional limits of governmental authority are.

If by "understanding," you mean "Complete misunderstanding," sure.


It's weird that people think they have a right to enter any business.  Of course they don't.

It's like the people who think they have the right to pay for things with bags of pennies.
 
2014-05-05 02:34:56 AM  

noitsnot: It's weird that people think they have a right to enter any business. Of course they don't.


So... you think you have a right as a business owner to discriminate against your customers? Are you going to have one of the Fark Independents with a GED in law defend you in court?
 
2014-05-05 02:36:17 AM  

Waldo Pepper: is there an acceptable line.  Can a wedding photographer refuse to shoot a gay wedding? can a gay graphic designer refuse to do a job for a christian group?


To revisit your question, it depends on whether you're asking legally, morally, ethically, etc.  IANAL, but my understanding of the legal question is that it depends on whether or not membership in a protected class was the reason for refusing service.  I would say that ethically you should only refuse service to a customer because of his behavior to you, your staff, or to your other clients --- not because of who he is or what he believes.

And no, "I'll refuse his custom because it might make other customers hate me if I didn't" is not, as I see it, a valid reason to refuse anybody.

The principle should be symmetric and universal: e.g., a Christian photographer can't refuse to shoot a gay wedding; a gay photographer can't refuse to shoot a Christian wedding.

A better question might be, Can a gay photographer refuse to shoot a  Westboro Baptist Church Family Values Picnic where homophobic banners wave in the breeze and everyone has their "Pray the Gay Away" (or worse) t-shirts on?  I'm still inclined to say no, you can't refuse to do a job even if doing so seems to help promote or facilitate "the enemy."
 
2014-05-05 02:41:21 AM  

Bob Robert: noitsnot: It's weird that people think they have a right to enter any business. Of course they don't.

So... you think you have a right as a business owner to discriminate against your customers? Are you going to have one of the Fark Independents with a GED in law defend you in court?


No, you don't have to serve people if you don't want to.  You can't refuse service for discriminatory reasons, but anything else is fair game.  It's tuesday, I won't serve you.  My foot hurts, you have to leave.  For no reason at all except I say so, get out.  See how easy that is?  You just can't say "I won't serve catholics", etc.
 
2014-05-05 02:51:34 AM  

noitsnot: Bob Robert: noitsnot: It's weird that people think they have a right to enter any business. Of course they don't.

So... you think you have a right as a business owner to discriminate against your customers? Are you going to have one of the Fark Independents with a GED in law defend you in court?

No, you don't have to serve people if you don't want to.  You can't refuse service for discriminatory reasons, but anything else is fair game.  It's tuesday, I won't serve you.  My foot hurts, you have to leave.  For no reason at all except I say so, get out.  See how easy that is?  You just can't say "I won't serve catholics", etc.


that isn't what you said, nor is that the topic being debated here. You can make up excuses like that, but we have been debating whether it is okay for a business owner to refuse making a cake for a gay wedding, and forcing them to not discriminate is the true discrimination and horrible.
 
2014-05-05 02:56:51 AM  

Ruiizu: One thing listed in that article is definitely true: being a soldier is an unfit profession for a real "Christian." What part of loving your enemies and treating people how you want to be treated was unclear in the Bible?


The answer might depend on whether you're asking about the New Testament or the Old Testament.  The Old Testament seems to a lot more smite-friendly.
 
2014-05-05 02:58:32 AM  

pwhp_67: cameroncrazy1984: Nope. You cannot refuse a service that you would normally provide to anyone else.

The business can refuse service if they want to, it's their right.


Legally, no, not anywhere in the USA.

Ethically, still no, but you get to have a different opinion.
 
2014-05-05 03:04:20 AM  

Bob Robert: noitsnot: Bob Robert: noitsnot: It's weird that people think they have a right to enter any business. Of course they don't.

So... you think you have a right as a business owner to discriminate against your customers? Are you going to have one of the Fark Independents with a GED in law defend you in court?

No, you don't have to serve people if you don't want to.  You can't refuse service for discriminatory reasons, but anything else is fair game.  It's tuesday, I won't serve you.  My foot hurts, you have to leave.  For no reason at all except I say so, get out.  See how easy that is?  You just can't say "I won't serve catholics", etc.

that isn't what you said, nor is that the topic being debated here. You can make up excuses like that, but we have been debating whether it is okay for a business owner to refuse making a cake for a gay wedding, and forcing them to not discriminate is the true discrimination and horrible.


Wait, it's not what I said?  It's right there in the italics!  Who said it, if I didn't?
 
2014-05-05 03:13:48 AM  
Good good good good good good good.

Good.
 
2014-05-05 03:22:10 AM  

noitsnot: Wait, it's not what I said? It's right there in the italics! Who said it, if I didn't?


You only said it after the fact, once you realized what your claim was really leading to. Way to play naive instead of admitting your argument is devoid of logic.
 
2014-05-05 03:26:52 AM  

noitsnot: cameroncrazy1984: DrPainMD: Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: pwhp_67: The business can refuse service if they want to, it's their right.

WRONG

Where the fark do people keep getting this dumbass idea?

Maybe they get the idea from an understanding of what freedom is, or from the understanding of what the constitutional limits of governmental authority are.

If by "understanding," you mean "Complete misunderstanding," sure.

It's weird that people think they have a right to enter any business.  Of course they don't.


You do realize that phrases like "It's weird that" and "of course" when making assertions like yours are tantamount to saying "I have no argument to support my claims but I'm either too stupid or too dishonest to acknowledge that," right?

You do have a right to use any public accommodation, that's kinda what the word "public" means.  There are limits: you can refuse service to someone who is NOT part of a protected class in order to "protect a legitimate business interest."

If you are a business that serves the general public, such as a restaurant, you are a public accommodation, which means you must serve everybody and can ONLY refuse service when there is " a legitimate business interest" in doing so.  If you are a private club, then you are not a public accommodation, and the rules are different.  Public, private --- the words make it pretty self-explanatory, really.
 
2014-05-05 03:28:51 AM  

ciberido: If you are a business that serves the general public, such as a restaurant, you are a public accommodation, which means you must serve everybody and can ONLY refuse service when there is " a legitimate business interest" in doing so


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
 
2014-05-05 04:22:03 AM  

Miss Alexandra: Well, for every gay that wants to purposely wreck a Christian's livelihood out of hate, there is likely at least one Christian who will be a customer.

You don't go into an occult shop and demand they stock King James Bibles.  Likewise, if a Christian--obeying their conscience--doesn't want to be involved in your so-called "wedding," just find someone with no morals or make it yourself.

I think most people have the sense to know that these gays are just being hateful and spiteful.  "Waaahhh...we can't get these guys to tolerate our perverted lifestyle!  Let's make sure we put them out of business!"

/just disgusted right now


So much unwarranted hate for a group of people that most likely have done exactly zero actual harm to you in your life, much less for reasons of deliberate bigotry and spite.

The words you use, the malice you demonstrate outlines in stark contrast your failure to comprehend actual morality.

Furthermore, never has there been any being or force that has incontrovertibly declared you (or anyone you know) the final arbiter of what constitutes a marriage.

Besides which, what you consider perverse is completely subjective, and you have zero authority to inflict your subjective standards on the rest of us.
 
2014-05-05 08:15:12 AM  

acohn: There's a more important principle at stake than just actions have repercussions.  There are some things you want to teach your children not to do under any circumstances, either in public or private, because they are inherently degrading/desecrating towards others.


Never tell a child they can't do something. They only want to do it more. Make them understand WHY they don't want to do it, and then they won't do it.

/children don't understand such a nebulous concept as "degradation" as a reason for not doing something. that part of their brain is not yet active.
 
2014-05-05 08:23:27 AM  

hchaos: archichris: Read up on the tactics that the Mafia uses to extort protection money and then read up on the tactics terrorists use to change public opinion or policy.....

Then read up on the tactics the LGBT activists use against Christians.

Its a scary parallel.

You know who else.... nah never mind, you arent reading anymore anyway.

Funny, when I looked into this just now, I didn't see anything that I would consider a scary parallel. Could you be more specific?


Duh. The parallel is that weepy christians are as petrified of gays as terrorists and mobsters. You know how many people got suicide-BJ'd in the past week alone? And the mafia is notorious for withholding the reach-around if you haven't paid up.
 
2014-05-05 08:28:59 AM  

Miss Alexandra: Well, for every gay that wants to purposely wreck a Christian's livelihood out of hate, there is likely at least one Christian who will be a customer.

You don't go into an occult shop and demand they stock King James Bibles.  Likewise, if a Christian--obeying their conscience--doesn't want to be involved in your so-called "wedding," just find someone with no morals or make it yourself.

I think most people have the sense to know that these gays are just being hateful and spiteful.  "Waaahhh...we can't get these guys to tolerate our perverted lifestyle!  Let's make sure we put them out of business!"

/just disgusted right now


You're part of a ~2,000 year-old death cult that believes an infant can be damned to an eternity of torment based on the behavior of its parents.  I really don't think you have any place being disgusted by pretty much anything gay people do.
 
2014-05-05 08:38:25 AM  

Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: You're part of a ~2,000 year-old death cult that believes an infant can be damned to an eternity of torment based on the behavior of its parents.  I really don't think you have any place being disgusted by pretty much anything gay people do.


unbaptized babies actually go to limbo, not hell.

As a native once said to a missionary. "If I didn't know of God, would I go to hell?"  "Of course not, you didn't know."  "then why did you tell me about him?"
 
2014-05-05 08:56:09 AM  

fluffy2097: Harbinger of the Doomed Rat: You're part of a ~2,000 year-old death cult that believes an infant can be damned to an eternity of torment based on the behavior of its parents.  I really don't think you have any place being disgusted by pretty much anything gay people do.

unbaptized babies actually go to limbo, not hell.

As a native once said to a missionary. "If I didn't know of God, would I go to hell?"  "Of course not, you didn't know."  "then why did you tell me about him?"


That's even worse.  Babies can't even walk, so how are they going to limbo?  And being forced to listen to that music for eternity?  *shudder*
 
2014-05-05 09:40:04 AM  

whidbey: ciberido: If you are a business that serves the general public, such as a restaurant, you are a public accommodation, which means you must serve everybody and can ONLY refuse service when there is " a legitimate business interest" in doing so

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!


Indeed.  Good lord these people are retarded.
 
2014-05-05 09:45:49 AM  

Bob Robert: noitsnot: Wait, it's not what I said? It's right there in the italics! Who said it, if I didn't?

You only said it after the fact, once you realized what your claim was really leading to. Way to play naive instead of admitting your argument is devoid of logic.


No, I said it right at the time that I said it.  I realized that my claim was leading to what I said, so then I said what I had previously said, only now at a later time.
 
2014-05-05 10:08:19 AM  

atomic-age: ciberido: clancifer: Notabunny: fta Anyone "who has authority of the sword, is the ruler of a city, or wears the purple" has to resign his job or leave.

Aaaaand then they decapitated his whole family. You don't want to say 'no' to people who have authority of the sword. Just ask Vince Foster and Chris Stevens.

I'm not asking any zombies.

I asked a bunch of zombies once.  They were pretty cryptic with their answer: "No one ever spoke to  Noah.They all laughed at him instead. Working on his ark, working all by himself."  Useless, so I told them to hide their faces.

Thank you for this.


You know, just as I was posting that, I said to myself, "There's no way anybody's going to get that reference, and even if anyone does, they'll just think it's stupid."  So thank YOU.
 
2014-05-05 10:35:53 AM  

Bertuccio: namegoeshere: ricbach229: notto: ricbach229: ]

The guy pushed out at Mozilla was fired for donating to a prop 8 support group that had their donor list illegally released.

This is absolutely untrue and you are spreading a lie.  The donor list was legally released by the California Secretary of state as mandated by law.  Quit  spreading lies.

Thanks for being an asshole while calling me a liar over a mistake.  I didn't realize California had a $100 threshold for disclosure of donations to non politicians.

I notice you didn't correct me on the private phone call Stirlings had or the bakers case where they are essentially a kosher deli being forced to serve an unkosher cake.

Please explain this. What makes a kosher deli kosher is not their refusal to serve a particular customer. It is the list of ingredients that they do not use in their food. What ingredient is included in Gay Cake that is forbidden in Christian cake? Because that would be the only way the two situations would be at all the same.

Gay ingredients... Cumin?

Maybe someone else can do better.


Basil?
 
2014-05-05 10:46:40 AM  

ciberido: If he says he's queer, do we really need a precise measurement of just HOW queer he is?


What units would this hypothetical queerometer measure queerness in? Liberaces?
 
2014-05-05 11:16:52 AM  
You CAN refuse service to people who are disruptive, destructive, threatening, or obnoxious.

You CANNOT refuse service to people who are black, Asian, gay, wearing a brand of clothes you don't like, drive a model of car you don't like, etc.
 
2014-05-05 11:30:09 AM  

cchris_39: Should kosher deli's be forced to sell me a ham sandwich?

Should the black owned dry cleaners be forced to launder my hood and robe?


If they don't stock ham? They can't make a product for you that they don't make for anyone else.

As for your hood and robe, in most jurisdictions that could easily be construed as a threat, and that's a completely legitimate reason to refuse service.

So yes on both of your "hypotheticals"
 
2014-05-05 12:07:28 PM  

ricbach229: namegoeshere: ricbach229: notto: ricbach229: ]

The guy pushed out at Mozilla was fired for donating to a prop 8 support group that had their donor list illegally released.

This is absolutely untrue and you are spreading a lie.  The donor list was legally released by the California Secretary of state as mandated by law.  Quit  spreading lies.

Thanks for being an asshole while calling me a liar over a mistake.  I didn't realize California had a $100 threshold for disclosure of donations to non politicians.

I notice you didn't correct me on the private phone call Stirlings had or the bakers case where they are essentially a kosher deli being forced to serve an unkosher cake.

Please explain this. What makes a kosher deli kosher is not their refusal to serve a particular customer. It is the list of ingredients that they do not use in their food. What ingredient is included in Gay Cake that is forbidden in Christian cake? Because that would be the only way the two situations would be at all the same.

Kosher isn't just kosher because of the ingredients.  It's also in the prep.  Slaughter a cow one way and it's kosher, do it another and it's just hamburger.

The bakers sell a wedding cake as a contribution to the marriage sacrament.  Something as small as the male/female figure on the top of the cake is a part of it.  Now they're being forced to change the cakes decorations from what they artistically believe appropriate and sell to people who are not even committing the sacrament. In the case in Colorado the baker had made other products without any problem for the couple in question.  It was only when it came to the wedding cake that the baker said no, this is different, can't do it.


Huh... last time I checked, the Church didn't have anything to say about what kind of cake you had for your wedding, or how it was prepared. Or even that you had one. The Catholic Church at least doesn't use the cake during the ceremony.

Are you sure it's part of the Sacrament? Or is it just traditional trappings for the after-party, the time post-Sacrament when everyone celebrates what just happened? Which would mean there should be no religious conflict, because there's no religious service...
 
2014-05-05 12:18:04 PM  

mikefinch: namegoeshere: They are in no way contributing to the sacrament of marriage. They aren't marrying the couple. There is no cake in a wedding ceremony. They're baking a cake for the party after the ceremony. They're baking the same cake they bake for every other  couple. They are specifically denying that same cake to the gay couple. And again, it has fark all to do with your kosher deli example.

Lets say i hunt allot and i have a great picture of myself stabbing a deer in the face... And i take it in to a framing shop owned by a PETA ultravegan... and the guy politely tells me he cant open his business towards something he feels glorifies killing animals... Its against his values...

Is he a bigot?


If the framing shop refused to frame his family picture because the customer was a hunter, yes, he is a bigot. But based on the content of the picture? No. A baker would also be within their rights to refuse to make a wedding cake with a giant dildo on it.
 
2014-05-05 12:48:13 PM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: You CAN refuse service to people who are disruptive, destructive, threatening, or obnoxious.

You CANNOT refuse service to people who are black, Asian, gay, wearing a brand of clothes you don't like, drive a model of car you don't like, etc.



Sigh.

You cannot refuse service to a person because they are a member of a protected class.

That's it.  That's all you need.

You CAN refuse service to people who are disruptive, destructive, threatening, or obnoxious.

Yes, but you don't need any of those reasons.  You can just pick a random person and refuse to serve them.

You CANNOT refuse service to people who are black, Asian, gay, ...

Yes

- ...  wearing a brand of clothes you don't like, drive a model of car you don't like, etc.

No, you can happily refuse service to those people on those grounds.  Not protected.

People get tripped up thinking they need to justify it.  Just say "I don't feel like selling you ice cream today.  Please leave my store."  It's still private property, and right to pass is controlled by the owner and/or the tenant.

Haven't we gone through this enough with the gun guys?
 
2014-05-05 12:59:15 PM  

noitsnot: Keizer_Ghidorah: You CAN refuse service to people who are disruptive, destructive, threatening, or obnoxious.

You CANNOT refuse service to people who are black, Asian, gay, wearing a brand of clothes you don't like, drive a model of car you don't like, etc.


Sigh.

You cannot refuse service to a person because they are a member of a protected class.

That's it.  That's all you need.

-  You CAN refuse service to people who are disruptive, destructive, threatening, or obnoxious.

Yes, but you don't need any of those reasons.  You can just pick a random person and refuse to serve them.

-  You CANNOT refuse service to people who are black, Asian, gay, ...

Yes

- ...  wearing a brand of clothes you don't like, drive a model of car you don't like, etc.

No, you can happily refuse service to those people on those grounds.  Not protected.

People get tripped up thinking they need to justify it.  Just say "I don't feel like selling you ice cream today.  Please leave my store."  It's still private property, and right to pass is controlled by the owner and/or the tenant.

Haven't we gone through this enough with the gun guys?


You actually can't. Unless there's a business interest you can point to, randomly refusing service is a good way to lose a lawsuit. It needs to be a legitimate business reason.

https://www.legalzoom.com/us-law/equal-rights/right-refuse-service
 
2014-05-05 01:02:45 PM  

pjkraatz: acohn: Miss Alexandra: Well, for every gay that wants to purposely wreck a Christian's livelihood out of hate, there is likely at least one Christian who will be a customer.

You don't go into an occult shop and demand they stock King James Bibles.  Likewise, if a Christian--obeying their conscience--doesn't want to be involved in your so-called "wedding," just find someone with no morals or make it yourself.

I think most people have the sense to know that these gays are just being hateful and spiteful.  "Waaahhh...we can't get these guys to tolerate our perverted lifestyle!  Let's make sure we put them out of business!"

/just disgusted right now

[img.fark.net image 469x304]

Serious.  Check the profile.


You've been fooled.  There are obvious signs of trolling, its a really complete front, but it's a front.
 
2014-05-05 02:05:49 PM  

Pitabred: noitsnot: Keizer_Ghidorah: You CAN refuse service to people who are disruptive, destructive, threatening, or obnoxious.

You CANNOT refuse service to people who are black, Asian, gay, wearing a brand of clothes you don't like, drive a model of car you don't like, etc.


Sigh.

You cannot refuse service to a person because they are a member of a protected class.

That's it.  That's all you need.

-  You CAN refuse service to people who are disruptive, destructive, threatening, or obnoxious.

Yes, but you don't need any of those reasons.  You can just pick a random person and refuse to serve them.

-  You CANNOT refuse service to people who are black, Asian, gay, ...

Yes

- ...  wearing a brand of clothes you don't like, drive a model of car you don't like, etc.

No, you can happily refuse service to those people on those grounds.  Not protected.

People get tripped up thinking they need to justify it.  Just say "I don't feel like selling you ice cream today.  Please leave my store."  It's still private property, and right to pass is controlled by the owner and/or the tenant.

Haven't we gone through this enough with the gun guys?

You actually can't. Unless there's a business interest you can point to, randomly refusing service is a good way to lose a lawsuit. It needs to be a legitimate business reason.

https://www.legalzoom.com/us-law/equal-rights/right-refuse-service



Hmmn - that says the "Federal Civil Rights Act", but if I google that I don't find it.  There's a "Civil Rights Act of 1964".  That looks like the closest thing.

Looks like from here:  http://www.justice.gov/crt/about/hce/title2.php that it defines "public accommodation" specifically as hotels, restaurants, and movie houses.  So if I had a flower shop, looks like that's not covered.

But even taking "LegalZoom" at face value - the idea of right of access never appears without the idea of prevention of discrimination by race, color, religion, origin.  There's never a statement of "You must sell to anyone who wants to buy" or "If you are open anyone can come in".  I just don't see that.

Yes, I agree that you might be in for a lot of hassles if you arbitrarily refuse customers.  But I don't see that the law requires a merchant to sell if he doesn't want to sell.  Or that a property owner must allow anyone to pass onto the property if there is any kind of business there.
 
2014-05-05 02:14:21 PM  

noitsnot: Pitabred: noitsnot: Keizer_Ghidorah: You CAN refuse service to people who are disruptive, destructive, threatening, or obnoxious.

You CANNOT refuse service to people who are black, Asian, gay, wearing a brand of clothes you don't like, drive a model of car you don't like, etc.


Sigh.

You cannot refuse service to a person because they are a member of a protected class.

That's it.  That's all you need.

-  You CAN refuse service to people who are disruptive, destructive, threatening, or obnoxious.

Yes, but you don't need any of those reasons.  You can just pick a random person and refuse to serve them.

-  You CANNOT refuse service to people who are black, Asian, gay, ...

Yes

- ...  wearing a brand of clothes you don't like, drive a model of car you don't like, etc.

No, you can happily refuse service to those people on those grounds.  Not protected.

People get tripped up thinking they need to justify it.  Just say "I don't feel like selling you ice cream today.  Please leave my store."  It's still private property, and right to pass is controlled by the owner and/or the tenant.

Haven't we gone through this enough with the gun guys?

You actually can't. Unless there's a business interest you can point to, randomly refusing service is a good way to lose a lawsuit. It needs to be a legitimate business reason.

https://www.legalzoom.com/us-law/equal-rights/right-refuse-service


Hmmn - that says the "Federal Civil Rights Act", but if I google that I don't find it.  There's a "Civil Rights Act of 1964".  That looks like the closest thing.

Looks like from here:  http://www.justice.gov/crt/about/hce/title2.php that it defines "public accommodation" specifically as hotels, restaurants, and movie houses.  So if I had a flower shop, looks like that's not covered.

But even taking "LegalZoom" at face value - the idea of right of access never appears without the idea of prevention of discrimination by race, color, religion, origin.  There's never a statement of "You mu ...



Whoops - looks like there's a 1991 version:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1991

This seems to modernize some of the language, and to codify the legal decisions made based of the 1964 act.  However, I stand by the claim that the intent is to prevent discrimination, not to provide customers with right of access in spite of the property owner/tenant.
 
2014-05-05 05:29:36 PM  

noitsnot: No, you can happily refuse service to those people on those grounds.  Not protected.

People get tripped up thinking they need to justify it.  Just say "I don't feel like selling you ice cream today.  Please leave my store."  It's still private property, and right to pass is controlled by the owner and/or the tenant.

Haven't we gone through this enough with the gun guys?


Why do you insist on saying the same stupid wrong crap over and over long after your wrongness has been pointed out to you?  Are you trolling?  Is it performance art?
 
2014-05-05 05:34:40 PM  

RobSeace: ciberido: If he says he's queer, do we really need a precise measurement of just HOW queer he is?

What units would this hypothetical queerometer measure queerness in? Liberaces?


If we're talking about male homosexuality, sure.  For female homosexuality we'd use Nalgenes or Flannels.

And for bisexuality, I guess we'd use Bowies.
 
2014-05-05 05:51:16 PM  
Why is it the people that refuse to believe in evolution so often appear to be the least evolved?
 
2014-05-05 05:54:47 PM  

ciberido: And for bisexuality, I guess we'd use Bowies.


At first, I read that as bowties, and was trying to figure out if you were trying to imply that Orville Redenbacher or the eleventh Doctor were bisexual...

/How about Captain Jacks?
//More for omnisexuality, I guess...
 
2014-05-05 06:22:35 PM  

ciberido: noitsnot: No, you can happily refuse service to those people on those grounds.  Not protected.

People get tripped up thinking they need to justify it.  Just say "I don't feel like selling you ice cream today.  Please leave my store."  It's still private property, and right to pass is controlled by the owner and/or the tenant.

Haven't we gone through this enough with the gun guys?

Why do you insist on saying the same stupid wrong crap over and over long after your wrongness has been pointed out to you?  Are you trolling?  Is it performance art?


All I've seen is a LegalZoom page that refers to a non-existent federal act.  It does contain verbiage from the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which I assume is what it meant by the "Federal Civil Rights Act" - although there have been at least four of those, so you'd think a "legal advice" site might be a little more careful with it's citations.

The Civil Rights Act of 1964, however, says that if I operate a hotel, restaurant, or movie house, then I can't refuse you service because of your race, religion or origin.

So, where's the law that says I am required to serve you no matter what?
 
2014-05-05 07:02:06 PM  

noitsnot: The Civil Rights Act of 1964, however, says that if I operate a hotel, restaurant, or movie house, then I can't refuse you service because of your race, religion or origin.


"hotels, motels, restaurants, theaters, and all other public accommodations engaged in interstate commerce"
 
2014-05-05 07:05:24 PM  

noitsnot: ciberido: noitsnot: No, you can happily refuse service to those people on those grounds.  Not protected.

People get tripped up thinking they need to justify it.  Just say "I don't feel like selling you ice cream today.  Please leave my store."  It's still private property, and right to pass is controlled by the owner and/or the tenant.

Haven't we gone through this enough with the gun guys?

Why do you insist on saying the same stupid wrong crap over and over long after your wrongness has been pointed out to you?  Are you trolling?  Is it performance art?

All I've seen is a LegalZoom page that refers to a non-existent federal act.  It does contain verbiage from the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which I assume is what it meant by the "Federal Civil Rights Act" - although there have been at least four of those, so you'd think a "legal advice" site might be a little more careful with it's citations.

The Civil Rights Act of 1964, however, says that if I operate a hotel, restaurant, or movie house, then I can't refuse you service because of your race, religion or origin.

So, where's the law that says I am required to serve you no matter what?


There's no law that says you're required to serve you "no matter what", but opening yourself up as a public place of business means you need to be very judicious about who you kick out. If you kick out people of protected classes, even if you claim other reasons, you're still opening yourself up to lawsuits and fines. You can't hide behind the "I didn't kick him out because he was black, I kicked him out because he looked funny" defense, because the real reason is easily discernible behind your pattern of exclusion. Even one time kicking out a person of a protected class, if your reason doesn't hold water, is enough to fall afoul of those regulations.

In addition to the federal laws, there are numerous more granular state laws.

http://civilrights.findlaw.com/enforcing-your-civil-rights/discrimin at ion-in-public-accommodations.html
 
2014-05-05 07:40:53 PM  

RobSeace: noitsnot: The Civil Rights Act of 1964, however, says that if I operate a hotel, restaurant, or movie house, then I can't refuse you service because of your race, religion or origin.

"hotels, motels, restaurants, theaters, and all other public accommodations engaged in interstate commerce"


"public accommodation" is specifically defined in  Civil Rights Act of 1964 to be hotels, restaurants and movie houses.  They take four big paragraphs to do it.

If I have a florist shop, that's not a "public accommodation" according to  Civil Rights Act of 1964.

Andeven assuming that every business is a "public accommodation", that only means that I can't discriminate against race, religion or origin.  I think I am free to refuse you service just because I feel like it.
 
2014-05-05 07:56:14 PM  

Pitabred: noitsnot: ciberido: noitsnot: No, you can happily refuse service to those people on those grounds.  Not protected.

...

There's no law that says you're required to serve you "no matter what", but opening yourself up as a public place of business means you need to be very judicious about who you kick out. If you kick out people of protected classes, even if you claim other reasons, you're still opening yourself up to lawsuits and fines. You can't hide behind the "I didn't kick him out because he was black, I kicked him out because he looked funny" defense, because the real reason is easily discernible behind your pattern of exclusion. Even one time kicking out a person of a protected class, if your reason doesn't hold water, is enough to fall afoul of those regulations.


I get that maybe it's not a smart idea.  But there's no law preventing one from doing it.  The burden of proof is still on the accuser.  I don't have to say why I refused you service.  It's your job to prove I was discriminating.

You all keep making arguments that boil down to "You have to serve everyone or else it's discrimination".  That's not true.  It's not the same thing.

In addition to the federal laws, there are numerous more granular state laws.

http://civilrights.findlaw.com/enforcing-your-civil-rights/discrimin at ion-in-public-accommo ...


Yep.  In California they pretty much have extended it to be any business of any kind, and any sort of personal "difference" you can feasibly point to - such as droopy pants, for example.
 
2014-05-05 08:35:33 PM  

noitsnot: RobSeace: noitsnot: The Civil Rights Act of 1964, however, says that if I operate a hotel, restaurant, or movie house, then I can't refuse you service because of your race, religion or origin.

"hotels, motels, restaurants, theaters, and all other public accommodations engaged in interstate commerce"

"public accommodation" is specifically defined in  Civil Rights Act of 1964 to be hotels, restaurants and movie houses.  They take four big paragraphs to do it.

If I have a florist shop, that's not a "public accommodation" according to  Civil Rights Act of 1964.

Andeven assuming that every business is a "public accommodation", that only means that I can't discriminate against race, religion or origin.  I think I am free to refuse you service just because I feel like it.


Actually, it's pretty obvious it's because you feel like flaunting your bigotry, based on your rather absurd fervent defense of the "right" to act on it.
 
2014-05-05 08:38:08 PM  

noitsnot: "public accommodation" is specifically defined in Civil Rights Act of 1964 to be hotels, restaurants and movie houses. They take four big paragraphs to do it.

If I have a florist shop, that's not a "public accommodation" according to Civil Rights Act of 1964.


Nope, wrong... CRA1964 was somewhat limited in its definition, but section 4.a.2 would seem to include anything in a mall that contains any of the other covered items, such as a restaurant, so a florist in a mall that contains any store that serves food would qualify... However, it's now understood to just generally apply to pretty much all retail establishments that serve the public...
 
2014-05-05 08:41:07 PM  

RobSeace: However, it's now understood to just generally apply to pretty much all retail establishments that serve the public...


NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
 
2014-05-05 09:18:25 PM  
And once again, the folks vociferously defending "freedom" are arguing for the freedom to be a jerk.

You must be so proud.
 
2014-05-05 09:32:47 PM  

RobSeace: noitsnot: "public accommodation" is specifically defined in Civil Rights Act of 1964 to be hotels, restaurants and movie houses. They take four big paragraphs to do it.

If I have a florist shop, that's not a "public accommodation" according to Civil Rights Act of 1964.

Nope, wrong... CRA1964 was somewhat limited in its definition, but section 4.a.2 would seem to include anything in a mall that contains any of the other covered items, such as a restaurant, so a florist in a mall that contains any store that serves food would qualify... However, it's now understood to just generally apply to pretty much all retail establishments that serve the public...


Well, my flower shop is in an old Arby's that I got a good deal on.

But, as you say, current interpretation is that anything not a private club is covered.  In California we have state legislation that spells that out, I believe.

But now show the refusal of service is discriminatory - which was the only thing I was ever interested in.  Seems like unless you can prove I'm discriminating, I don't have to serve you, and I don't have to justify it.
 
2014-05-05 10:05:49 PM  

Deucednuisance: And once again, the folks vociferously defending "freedom" are arguing for the freedom to be a jerk.

You must be so proud.


They were bullied and made fun of in high school, so now they are desperate to grab guns and money so they can treat others the same way they were treated.
 
2014-05-05 10:13:43 PM  
As a Christian, let me say to any homosexual farkers, hi.

Really, that is about it from me.

/sorry about the noisy idiots whose faith has the same name as mine
//hope life is good. If you are in town, drop in and I'll buy you a beer.
 
2014-05-05 11:39:08 PM  
The same thing happened to "Christians" who hated black people after the civil rights movement.  Like then, this is a good thing.
 
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