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(CNN)   How 'Star Wars' ruined sci-fi   (cnn.com ) divider line
    More: Obvious, Star Wars, MacArthur Foundation, Forever War, Francois Truffaut, Episode VII, The Big Book of  
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6053 clicks; posted to Geek » on 03 May 2014 at 2:07 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-03 04:02:15 PM  
Screw it, let's re-make Willow and cast Peter Dinklage. Or make the trilogy of books written after the movie with Peter Dinklage.

Although, the books kinda sucked ...
 
2014-05-03 04:03:40 PM  

Mad_Radhu: 2wolves: Any story that uses Fate to shape itself is fantasy, not Science Fiction.

Babylon 5 managed to pull of the prophecy thing well, by having a main chapter travel back in time to become Valen, the one who wrote the prophecies.


Zathras does all the work. Zathras never gets the credit.
Zathras used to it now.
 
2014-05-03 04:05:32 PM  

HawgWild: Screw it, let's re-make Willow and cast Peter Dinklage. Or make the trilogy of books written after the movie with Peter Dinklage.



I doubt he'd do them. He stays away from anything typecast as a midget/dwarf.

/Tyrion may look like a dwarf, but he's not.
 
2014-05-03 04:17:01 PM  
SciFi Serials?
img.fark.net
 
2014-05-03 04:17:50 PM  
Translation: sci-fi was better before it was popular.

BTW: you're kidding yourself if half of the examples you listed are hard, or cerebral. There is very hard (even excepting things like aliens and ai) sci-fi around, mostly because no one reads it anymore.

And Hollywood won't make it because most hollywood (and most mainstream authors, for that matter) are pretty stupid when it comes to science.
 
2014-05-03 04:18:26 PM  
Anyone remember a sci-fi novel in which there was a third sex? not male or female, but 'Aer'?  Read it as a kid and can't remember the name.
 
2014-05-03 04:19:09 PM  
Thank god for Cory Doctorow. He'll save us from this living hell.
 
2014-05-03 04:20:54 PM  

almejita: Anyone remember a sci-fi novel in which there was a third sex? not male or female, but 'Aer'?  Read it as a kid and can't remember the name.


Just a guess, but it sounds like a Ursula Le Guin sort of thing.
 
2014-05-03 04:22:18 PM  

gunther_bumpass: Thank god for Cory Doctorow. He'll save us from this living hell.


Cory Doctrow will save us from Hipster Fandom?

BoingBoing is the epicenter of SciFi Posers everywhere.... if you want to suck up to Cory...you're in the wrong forums
 
2014-05-03 04:24:40 PM  

Stratohead: gunther_bumpass: Thank god for Cory Doctorow. He'll save us from this living hell.

Cory Doctrow will save us from Hipster Fandom?

BoingBoing is the epicenter of SciFi Posers everywhere.... if you want to suck up to Cory...you're in the wrong forums


He's the best thing to happen to literature since the first vaguely-mammalian family's slowest offspring spread its own feces on the wall of the home cave.
 
2014-05-03 04:27:23 PM  
Jesus

Star Wars isnt scifi at all and the genre it is in was popular for decades before it.

Some of the finest scifi movies ever made have been made after Star Wars, and it has in no way impacted on them.

Many popular and successful scifi works long before starwars were 'action romps', Star Wars is hardly to blame for that.

The example he obsesses over is pomo race-social literature wrapped in the thinnest of scifi skins, and noone who actually likes scifi would go watch it. In fact noone would. Would clean up at sundance though.
 
2014-05-03 04:27:37 PM  

gunther_bumpass: Thank god for Cory Doctorow. He'll save us from this living hell.


i tried to read 'for the win.' It was one of a handful of books i have put down halfway through and never returned to. one of the worst things i have ever read.
 
2014-05-03 04:34:17 PM  
I don't read anything on a recommendation any more, since the awful horror of the China Melville incident and the even worse 3 days of my life wasted watching Patrick Rothfuss masturbate onto a page. TWO of that farkers books I read. TWO. I still see it at night.
 
2014-05-03 04:36:59 PM  
I was with him, right up until he said that J. J. Abrams had talent.

That's where he lost me.
 
2014-05-03 04:45:20 PM  

tlchwi02: gunther_bumpass: Thank god for Cory Doctorow. He'll save us from this living hell.

i tried to read 'for the win.' It was one of a handful of books i have put down halfway through and never returned to. one of the worst things i have ever read.


The worst I have read from him so far is Someone Comes to Town, Someone Leaves Town. That was just a big bag of "WTF did I just read?". I downloaded it for free and still feel like I overpaid. Half the story was just him masturbating his hard on about Wi-Fi mesh networks.

/That said, I really did kind of like Down and Out in the Magic Kingdom.
 
2014-05-03 04:49:13 PM  

Any Pie Left: Pre-1977, was a very dry, desolate time for SF movies.  Apart from occasional b-movies, the studios were not spending huge bucks on it, and SF on the television was also fairly dead after Star Trek TOS folded up shop and went into re-runs.


Partial credit, since you are overlooking 1968's 2001: A Space Odyssey, which is now "nearly universally recognized by critics, film-makers, and audiences as one of the greatest and most influential films ever made." 2001 was the highest grossing film of 1968, and without it showing that sci-fi could make metric ass-tons of cash, SW might not have been filmed.

Having started watching sci-fi movies in the late 50's, I do agree that prior to 2001 sci-fi movies had too many stop-action monsters made from paper mache; too many actors in latex monster suits, ray guns, black and white film, etcetera.
 
2014-05-03 04:50:51 PM  

gunther_bumpass: Stratohead: gunther_bumpass: Thank god for Cory Doctorow. He'll save us from this living hell.

Cory Doctrow will save us from Hipster Fandom?

BoingBoing is the epicenter of SciFi Posers everywhere.... if you want to suck up to Cory...you're in the wrong forums

He's the best thing to happen to literature since the first vaguely-mammalian family's slowest offspring spread its own feces on the wall of the home cave.


You don't have to try and impress us. But now I have a decent picture of how you spend your weekend evenings. I can see now why you enjoy Doctrow so much.

besides, you are probably thinking of Jonathan Lethem...that or you are smoking crack.
 
2014-05-03 04:51:14 PM  

Stone Meadow: Partial credit, since you are overlooking 1968's 2001: A Space Odyssey, which is now "nearly universally recognized by critics, film-makers, and audiences as one of the greatest and most influential boring films ever made."


FTFY
 
2014-05-03 04:51:40 PM  

Doktor_Zhivago: Sci fi has been dead since Frank Herbert Philip K. Dick died.

There i said it


There...ftfy.
 
2014-05-03 04:52:01 PM  

aiiee: ruined sci-fi literature too, most new "hard" sci-fi has lots of battles and one on one fights, drawn out to blow by blow tedium.  It feels like they are writing screenplays for the marching morons, not novels.  I'm looking at you, James Corey.


Same for Fantasy.  Plus unnecessarily graphic sex scenes.  I'm looking at you, George R. R. Martin.

/Never watched the show
//The books made me want to nuke the whole place from orbit.
 
2014-05-03 04:54:13 PM  

simplicimus: almejita: Anyone remember a sci-fi novel in which there was a third sex? not male or female, but 'Aer'?  Read it as a kid and can't remember the name.

Just a guess, but it sounds like a Ursula Le Guin sort of thing.



Pretty sure that's not it....that name doesn't ring a bell

It's been 30 years since i read it though, i could be wrong
 
2014-05-03 04:56:16 PM  
I completely disagree. Star Wars is the gateway drug. It's safe enough for your kids to use and get addicted to while they are young. Then they will spend the rest of their lives delving the depths of the harder stuff.
 
2014-05-03 04:58:15 PM  
A Voyage to Arctures is the novel I was thinking about
 
2014-05-03 05:01:58 PM  

Stone Meadow: Any Pie Left: Pre-1977, was a very dry, desolate time for SF movies.  Apart from occasional b-movies, the studios were not spending huge bucks on it, and SF on the television was also fairly dead after Star Trek TOS folded up shop and went into re-runs.

Partial credit, since you are overlooking 1968's 2001: A Space Odyssey, which is now "nearly universally recognized by critics, film-makers, and audiences as one of the greatest and most influential films ever made." 2001 was the highest grossing film of 1968, and without it showing that sci-fi could make metric ass-tons of cash, SW might not have been filmed.

Having started watching sci-fi movies in the late 50's, I do agree that prior to 2001 sci-fi movies had too many stop-action monsters made from paper mache; too many actors in latex monster suits, ray guns, black and white film, etcetera.


There were about 5-10 sci fi movies per year from the 50's onward. while many were B Pictures, many were not.

Few films could tackle things with the level of budget as 2001... but Fantastic Voyage...Solaris, Dark Star, Silent Running to name a few. Hell Logans Run one an Oscar for best effects the year before StarWars was released. Omega Man. Soylent Green, Andromeda Strain , Westworld and Futureworld, RollerBall to name a few.
Then there was the massive hit franchise PLanet of the Apes, which from 68-73 consisted of 5 films a live action TV Series, and an aminated Cartoon.
between Star Trek and Star Wars were many scifi series as well... some were spin offs like Logans Run and Apes... but there was also Space 1999. UFO, Project Bluebook, the Bionic Man and Woman series...fark man...there really are to many for me to recall.
Despite only a few series reaching the recognition of StarTrek/Wars.... SciFi has never really been off the air in decades.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_science_fiction_television_prog ra ms
 
2014-05-03 05:03:35 PM  

Stone Meadow: There...ftfy.


I never got into him.  Too batshiat insane
 
2014-05-03 05:05:41 PM  

Relatively Obscure: Is there a term for hipster nerds?


Just hipster is sufficient. "Hipster Nerds" would be a redundancy, like "ATM machine", or "unexpected surprise".

Actually, ATM machine might not be a redundancy if you are referring to a certain type of pornographic performer who delivers the goods frequently and without fail.
 
2014-05-03 05:10:43 PM  

Jekylman: If Star Wars actually were science fiction it would be a lot worse.


Wasn't more space opera, then devolved into political thriller.
 
2014-05-03 05:10:55 PM  

Any Pie Left: Mote in God's Eye and the sequel would make a great movie... The stuff Niven and Pournelle wrote as a team was always written in a cinematic form, like novelizations of a screenplay. They even list the cast in the book as if it was a film. Adapting those would be easy.

I do NOT want to see Hollywood's take on "Ringworld": they could get the *look* right with modern FX technology, but they would ruin the STORY.


There was a story? I mean, aside from "We're at this ring. We're flying... There's a thing... We're flying... There's another thing... We're flying... Point that tasp somewhere else, buddy... We're flying..."
 
2014-05-03 05:23:50 PM  

Johnny_Canuck: Mike_1962: I'd like to see them make a movie from Niven's "The Mote in God's Eye".

Agreed.


Hear, hear.  Though it would have to be a mini-series or trilogy at best.
 
2014-05-03 05:26:17 PM  

bloobeary: I was with him, right up until he said that J. J. Abrams had talent.

That's where he lost me.


He has a great talent for taking well known characters, stripping them of what makes them interesting, and putting them in an action movie.
 
2014-05-03 05:29:16 PM  

Doktor_Zhivago: Stone Meadow: There...ftfy.

I never got into him.  Too batshiat insane


Granted, but Dick was asking deep questions while Herbert was writing space westerns... ;^)
 
2014-05-03 05:30:02 PM  
img.fark.net
 
2014-05-03 05:32:24 PM  
Stratohead:
You don't have to try and impress us. But now I have a decent picture of how you spend your weekend evenings. I can see now why you enjoy Doctrow so much.

Perhaps I should rephrase that in layman's terms.

"Continuing a tradition dating back thousands of years, Cory Doctorow is the modern master of smearing his own shiat on a wall."
 
2014-05-03 05:32:59 PM  

Stone Meadow: Doktor_Zhivago: Stone Meadow: There...ftfy.

I never got into him.  Too batshiat insane

Granted, but Dick was asking deep questions while Herbert was writing space westerns... ;^)


God emperor of dune is a western?

The jesus incident?

Really?
 
2014-05-03 05:33:06 PM  
It took me until the last paragraph to realize he was trolling.
 
2014-05-03 05:35:23 PM  
Firefly ain't sci-fi either, just a western with reskinned wagons and injun's, and a Confederate soldier as the hero.

Farscape manages it, with its muppets and Alice in Wonderland themes. Hell, maybe even Lexx.


/Damn, now I've a hankering for Dark Crystal.
 
2014-05-03 05:42:48 PM  
I loved the original star wars as a kid and will still watch them if I run across them on TV.

That said, Star Wars is fantasy, not science fiction. The dead giveaway is right there at the beginning of the first movie.
 
2014-05-03 05:46:41 PM  
If this is the thread for voting for the next movie adaptation I'm casting my vote for Hyperion and/or Diamond Age
 
2014-05-03 05:48:30 PM  

aiiee: ruined sci-fi literature too, most new "hard" sci-fi has lots of battles and one on one fights, drawn out to blow by blow tedium.  It feels like they are writing screenplays for the marching morons, not novels.  I'm looking at you, James Corey.


Piss off-  Expanse series is farking great.
 
2014-05-03 05:52:05 PM  

Doktor_Zhivago: Stone Meadow: Doktor_Zhivago: Stone Meadow: There...ftfy.

I never got into him.  Too batshiat insane

Granted, but Dick was asking deep questions while Herbert was writing space westerns... ;^)

God emperor of dune is a western?

The jesus incident?

Really?


Oh sure...SERIAL!!!
 
2014-05-03 06:01:33 PM  
Has anyone explained how Star Wars isn't actually science fiction and is really just space fantasy?
 
2014-05-03 06:11:40 PM  

Any Pie Left: Mote in God's Eye and the sequel would make a great movie... The stuff Niven and Pournelle wrote as a team was always written in a cinematic form, like novelizations of a screenplay. They even list the cast in the book as if it was a film. Adapting those would be easy.

I do NOT want to see Hollywood's take on "Ringworld": they could get the *look* right with modern FX technology, but they would ruin the STORY.


Protector would be a far better choice than Ringworld, IMO. Better yet- make it a short series on HBO or something similar.


I'd love to see a series made from The Hercules Text by Jack McDevitt.

 
2014-05-03 06:15:12 PM  
i.walmartimages.com

Show us on the Darth Vader doll exactly where George touched you.
 
2014-05-03 06:17:46 PM  
I guess he didn't see Moon, Donnie Darko, Paprika, Wall-E or Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind?
 
2014-05-03 06:21:02 PM  
 Partial credit, since you are overlooking 1968's 2001: A Space Odyssey, which is now "nearly universally recognized by critics, film-makers, and audiences

2001 was never a huge commercial success, or even a moderate one. The other, pre-1977 films were all just middling profit-makers, though Planet Of The Apes pointed the way forward in terms of exploiting the post-film marketing for crap like toys and lunch boxes, etc.

To the Hollywood studio heads, sci-fi pre-Star Wars  was considered kiddy fare, incapable of really serious story-telling and  it wasn't considered very "bankable", compared to wider genre's, so they didn't develop as many scripts for SF movies, and didn't budget them a lot of money.  I maintain that after Star Wars, a lot of studio heads started asking their staff to dig up some SF properties and rush them into development, prming the pump for a wave of production that's been building on itself ever since.

Let me look at what's playing in my local movie theatre this week: (pauses) five out of thirteen films playing this weekend here are some form of sci-fi.  And I can tell you from watching "Transcendence" last week, EVERY trailer before that film was for another sci-fi film coming out.

Good, bad, mediocre; regardless of how tasteful you may think the products are, the overall genre' is doing better than ever today - indeed, it's starting to crowd out  comedies and romances, while co-opting a lot of action movies by adding SF elements.
 
2014-05-03 06:30:20 PM  

Elegy: kroonermanblack: Is foundation an episode of Deep space nine, a show, or a novel? Because the word's too vague to google without a qualifier.

Set of novels by Isaac Assimov. A very, very long set of novels that everyone hypes as one of the greatest series in sci-fi, but that I personally found trite and rather boring in aggregate.

There were interesting parts, but I felt like I had to wade through too much dross to get to them.


I remember each book being pretty short. And self contained so you don't have to read them all in row. But it's been a while, so I may be wrong.
 
2014-05-03 06:35:52 PM  
Write something better, subby.
 
2014-05-03 06:43:34 PM  
Lighten up Francis.
 
2014-05-03 07:06:36 PM  
Star Wars gave us:

Rockets that are quiet enough you can stand right next to them as they are leaving.
Spacecraft making coordinated turns in space, at what appear to be about fifty G rates.
Lasers you can see in the vacuum of space.
Smoke and fire that blow backwards off moving spacecraft.
Conning towers on large spacecraft.
Spacecraft that have their engines running at all times even when landing.
Faster than light travel and faster than light data transmission.
Death star the size of a small moon, with no engines yet can keep up with the Millenium Falcon.
Same death star with a power reactor so unstable a single-seat fighter can destroy it.
"Thermal exhaust port" location on death star unintentionally (?) in the butt crack, har har.
Same port could have been defended by a steel grate of some kind.
Leia knows they're being followed and leads them right to her base anyway.
Artificial gravity in even the smallest vehicles.
Soldier armor with the weak points highlighted and helmets impossible to see out of.

And an empire too cheap to expend a single shot on a fleeing escape pod.
 
2014-05-03 07:29:38 PM  

Cymbal: I completely disagree. Star Wars is the gateway drug. It's safe enough for your kids to use and get addicted to while they are young. Then they will spend the rest of their lives delving the depths of the harder stuff.


I wish I could agree with that, but I've known too many people for whom the only sf they read or watch is Star Wars: endless, shaky amounts of Star Wars, novels and TV shows and increasingly awful video games, on and on forever.
 
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