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(Slate)   Liberal disagrees with Seattle's attempts to raise the minimum wage to $15 an hour. No word when he will be banished to the harsh land of Olympia   (slate.com) divider line 380
    More: Dumbass, Seattle, minimum wages, Inflation adjustment  
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4975 clicks; posted to Main » on 03 May 2014 at 1:50 PM (32 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



380 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-05-03 12:09:04 PM  
Seattle will be fine.
 
2014-05-03 12:13:58 PM  
Seattle will prosper.
 
2014-05-03 12:56:40 PM  
That's some weapons grade concern trolling.
 
2014-05-03 12:57:39 PM  
And if Seattle's economy doesn't collapse, I'm sure he'll retract his concern.
 
2014-05-03 01:00:23 PM  
Does this mean I still have to tip?
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2014-05-03 01:03:19 PM  
We know that businesses in high-wage countries are especially eager to replace workers with software.  ...But by passing a $15 minimum, Seattle would risk speeding the process up within its city limits.

Because slowing this process slightly would totally be a solution?
 
2014-05-03 01:34:37 PM  
To be fair, that is a pretty huge jump.

That might be too much for Seattle to handle.

I am not saying that they cannot raise their minimum wage that high; what I am saying is that it is too much too soon.
 
2014-05-03 01:53:25 PM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Does this mean I still have to tip?


oh come on.

Are we not doing phrasing anymore?
 
2014-05-03 01:53:25 PM  
Yes, because every other time the minimum wage has been raised the economy has collapsed.  Seattle will be just fine.
 
2014-05-03 01:54:17 PM  

cman: To be fair, that is a pretty huge jump.

That might be too much for Seattle to handle.

I am not saying that they cannot raise their minimum wage that high; what I am saying is that it is too much too soon.


It's a seven year process.
 
2014-05-03 01:54:55 PM  
The harsh lands of Olympia Snowe? Oh, no!

Driven from Portand, the land of gentle drizzle and Scotch Mist, to Portland, the land of slush and Snowe.

WINTER IS COMING.

People in Maine start saying that by August. They're sick of Summer by then.
 
2014-05-03 01:56:27 PM  
Don't worry. Boeing will lay off all its engineers and it'll balance out.
 
2014-05-03 01:56:45 PM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Does this mean I still have to tip?


If it's just the tip
 
2014-05-03 01:56:55 PM  
So how much will a big mac cost? $20? Pretty much my only concern
 
2014-05-03 01:56:57 PM  

feffer: cman: To be fair, that is a pretty huge jump.

That might be too much for Seattle to handle.

I am not saying that they cannot raise their minimum wage that high; what I am saying is that it is too much too soon.

It's a seven year process.


In 7 years do you think mom and pop businesses will be ready for such high wages?
 
2014-05-03 01:57:09 PM  
The simple answer is it should be statewide. Better yet, national. A high tide floats all the boats. Ask any investor.
 
2014-05-03 01:58:36 PM  

dobro: The simple answer is it should be statewide. Better yet, national. A high tide floats all the boats. Ask any investor.


Also any trickle down conservative.  Why don't the like this idea?  Oh yeah, it actually helps people.
 
2014-05-03 02:00:11 PM  

Heywood Jublowme: So how much will a big mac cost? $20? Pretty much my only concern


Check out prices in Australia, where the minimum wage is about $15.

(Hint, the answer is: not much more than it is here, now.)
 
2014-05-03 02:01:33 PM  
How much will a Starbucks cost now?
 
2014-05-03 02:02:41 PM  

cman: feffer: cman: To be fair, that is a pretty huge jump.

That might be too much for Seattle to handle.

I am not saying that they cannot raise their minimum wage that high; what I am saying is that it is too much too soon.

It's a seven year process.

In 7 years do you think mom and pop businesses will be ready for such high wages?


Maybe.  Businesses who are can more easily absorb the change go first, so there will be additional money circulating in the lower-middle class, who will spend some of that money at the mom and pop businesses.
 
2014-05-03 02:04:41 PM  
And the price of things will have to go up. Just what happens to older folks that are retired and on fixed incomes?
And don't say that SS gives us cost of living adjustments, it's a joke when they issue one, they raise the cost of Medicare, it's almost a wash.
 
2014-05-03 02:05:05 PM  
Look subby, just because Republicans embrace group think doesn't mean the rest of the country can't think for themselves
 
2014-05-03 02:08:18 PM  
as someone who has a degree in Econ, i so hope that they do it.
 
2014-05-03 02:08:57 PM  
Most of the shiatty service jobs this will affect aren't going to just "relocate to the suburbs" since there will still be a need for services in the city of seattle.  People might pay slightly more for a coffee or a value meal - boo hoo.
 
2014-05-03 02:09:09 PM  
Seattle currently has the highest minimum wage in the country I believe at ~$9.35/hr, looking at increasing to $15.00/hr.  While this sounds awesome for all those people earning minimum wage, I don't see how this has any benefit for those who can't even compete for those jobs and remain jobless.

Businesses are going to take a pretty huge hit on the labor part of the balance sheet.  There will also absolutely be a part of the work force, wether its significant or not, that are making a marginal amount over the $15.00/hr mark with significantly more skills that deal with significantly more stress, commuting, non-paid overtime, etc that decide to say screw it.  If they have worked their job for the last 5 years trying to get ahead and have only increased their take home pay a couple percent over that time, why not just take the bagger job, landscaping, greeter job, etc. around the corner?

I just don't see raising the minimum wage arbitrarily to a point where a ton of people are currently employed at with significantly more skills/experience or flat out work ethic is going to help those currently at minimum wage.  What we can hope for is the businesses loosing their $15-$17/hr HR people, helpdesk, office assistants, etc to positions with new minimum wages, will have to raise wages to compete with the new minimum wage jobs that require practically 0 skills.

You don't magically give all those people who couldn't find anything but a minimum wage job a %40 pay increase, you give those businesses a bigger pool of people with better skill sets for which to replace those people.
 
2014-05-03 02:09:21 PM  
I'm sure this will work great and not drive up the cost of living for the area.
 
2014-05-03 02:09:30 PM  
I just wanted to say that the Peninsula region of Washington state is a gorgeous place to live and I'd love to be banished there.
 
2014-05-03 02:09:59 PM  

feffer: cman: feffer: cman: To be fair, that is a pretty huge jump.

That might be too much for Seattle to handle.

I am not saying that they cannot raise their minimum wage that high; what I am saying is that it is too much too soon.

It's a seven year process.

In 7 years do you think mom and pop businesses will be ready for such high wages?

Maybe.  Businesses who are can more easily absorb the change go first, so there will be additional money circulating in the lower-middle class, who will spend some of that money at the mom and pop businesses.


Not every company is a multi-million dollar corporation who can absorb these wage increases.

$15 an hour in 7 years might not give enough time for it to grow to sustain the wages.

Seattle should settle for $11 or $12 and increase it to $15 when the system can support it
 
2014-05-03 02:10:26 PM  
Slate being that bastion of liberal, rational thought it's been lately, and all.
 
2014-05-03 02:10:49 PM  

cig-mkr: And the price of things will have to go up. Just what happens to older folks that are retired and on fixed incomes?
And don't say that SS gives us cost of living adjustments, it's a joke when they issue one, they raise the cost of Medicare, it's almost a wash.


Old people allowed decades of right wing policies to get us to this point, we aren't going to ignore progress just so those selfish farks can be more confortable on a system my generation will likely not see in a particularly meaningful fashion, but still have to fund.

/fark baby boomers
//worst... generation... ever
 
2014-05-03 02:11:12 PM  

cman: Seattle should settle for $11 or $12 and increase it to $15 when the system can support it


hell no! I want to see the shock effect. Do it all at once.
 
2014-05-03 02:11:20 PM  

duffblue: I'm sure this will work great and not drive up the cost of living for the area.


Just wanted to point out that prices are going up all over and not just in places where wages are increased.

Adjusted for inflation, wages in this country plateaued back in the 1980s while prices have steadily risen.  That should frighten anyone who isn't filthy rich.
 
2014-05-03 02:11:45 PM  
I think $10 should be the min now then $12 in the next 4 years
 
2014-05-03 02:11:58 PM  
If I get paid $15/hr already, do I get a raise too?  Or do I go back to making minimum wage?
 
2014-05-03 02:12:02 PM  

mr lawson: cman: Seattle should settle for $11 or $12 and increase it to $15 when the system can support it

hell no! I want to see the shock effect. Do it all at once.


Unlike a lot of people I dont want to see people hurt so others can rub their noses in their failures
 
2014-05-03 02:12:50 PM  

cman: Unlike a lot of people I dont want to see people hurt so others can rub their noses in their failures


That is the thing...we don't know that it will be a failure.
 
2014-05-03 02:12:51 PM  
*cough* *cough* massive cost of living increase and a large increase in inflation *cough* *cough*
 
2014-05-03 02:13:11 PM  

Itstoearly: If I get paid $15/hr already, do I get a raise too?  Or do I go back to making minimum wage?


That's up to your company, but ideally, your wages will also go up by the same amount(around $6 an hour).

Raising the minimum wage is a lot like that rising tide that Trickle Down always said it was, but never was.
 
2014-05-03 02:13:33 PM  

cman: To be fair, that is a pretty huge jump.

That might be too much for Seattle to handle.

I am not saying that they cannot raise their minimum wage that high; what I am saying is that it is too much too soon.


How exactly do you come to that very specific conclusion?

I don't know what the exact point at which raising the minimum wage would become counter-productive, but judging by how much low and middle income people have lost in wages and wealth since the late 70's it's at least clear they have quite a lot of catching up to do. The minimum wage helps with this as it sets a floor that other employers who aren't going to pay minimum wage will necessarily raise their own wages above. For instance, Marriott uses the minimum wage to set their own entry level wages at - they add a couple dollars per hour to it.

So raising the minimum wage has ripple effects up the pay scale through the population of people who will tend to spend their money on goods and services they need - which increases overall economic activity. This is in stark contrast to what we've been doing for 40+ years now with enriching only those at the highest levels of the income ladder - who tend to store that extra wealth, which either completely removes it from economic activity or at best diminishes the impact compared to straight up consumption.

This tactic has a break-even point, sure, but we're most likely so far from that right now that it's pointless and counter-productive to be concerned about. We've done SO much damage to our economy by eating away the wealth and wages of the low and middle classes that it's imperative we reverse the trend. It's why our economy has been slow to recover, and recovering weakly at that.
 
2014-05-03 02:14:38 PM  

mr lawson: cman: Unlike a lot of people I dont want to see people hurt so others can rub their noses in their failures

That is the thing...we don't know that it will be a failure.


Thats because no one has been stupid enough to try such a drastic rise in such short time
 
2014-05-03 02:15:12 PM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Does this mean I still have to tip?


That's the fallacy...the tips come straight off the employee's take-home, so you're tipping the owner.
 
2014-05-03 02:15:31 PM  

cman: Thats because no one has been stupid enough to try such a drastic rise in such short time


well...we will find out.
FOR SCIENCE!
 
2014-05-03 02:15:57 PM  
I think we should stop teaching economics in high school the way we do, and instead try to teach people "it's really farking complicated" like we do with sciences. That way when economists made proposals like this, the dumb-ass armchair policy makers wouldn't feel compelled to chime in.

Of course, that doesn't work with global warming, so maybe it's unavoidable.
 
2014-05-03 02:16:42 PM  

AverageAmericanGuy: Does this mean I still have to tip?


You don't have to now, you have the option to be a piece of shiat and still will afterwards.
 
2014-05-03 02:16:45 PM  

Infernalist: I just wanted to say that the Peninsula region of Washington state is a gorgeous place to live and I'd love to be banished there.


If you're going to banish someone to somewhere,
"Take him to Sprague!"
( scream)
 
2014-05-03 02:17:21 PM  

cman: $15 an hour in 7 years might not give enough time for it to grow to sustain the wages.

Seattle should settle for $11 or $12 and increase it to $15 when the system can support it


Which is probably about 7 years or so since it's indexed to inflation, I think.
 
2014-05-03 02:17:23 PM  

mongbiohazard: cman: To be fair, that is a pretty huge jump.

That might be too much for Seattle to handle.

I am not saying that they cannot raise their minimum wage that high; what I am saying is that it is too much too soon.

How exactly do you come to that very specific conclusion?

I don't know what the exact point at which raising the minimum wage would become counter-productive, but judging by how much low and middle income people have lost in wages and wealth since the late 70's it's at least clear they have quite a lot of catching up to do. The minimum wage helps with this as it sets a floor that other employers who aren't going to pay minimum wage will necessarily raise their own wages above. For instance, Marriott uses the minimum wage to set their own entry level wages at - they add a couple dollars per hour to it.

So raising the minimum wage has ripple effects up the pay scale through the population of people who will tend to spend their money on goods and services they need - which increases overall economic activity. This is in stark contrast to what we've been doing for 40+ years now with enriching only those at the highest levels of the income ladder - who tend to store that extra wealth, which either completely removes it from economic activity or at best diminishes the impact compared to straight up consumption.

This tactic has a break-even point, sure, but we're most likely so far from that right now that it's pointless and counter-productive to be concerned about. We've done SO much damage to our economy by eating away the wealth and wages of the low and middle classes that it's imperative we reverse the trend. It's why our economy has been slow to recover, and recovering weakly at that.


I agree with your concerns.

Rising wages is the only thing that will get us out of this economic mess.

Problem comes with the time table. Too much too soon will be devastating to its economy. The system needs to be able to support itself in order for it to work.
 
2014-05-03 02:18:31 PM  

cman: mr lawson: cman: Unlike a lot of people I dont want to see people hurt so others can rub their noses in their failures

That is the thing...we don't know that it will be a failure.

Thats because no one has been stupid enough to try such a drastic rise in such short time


8 years is not a short time. It should not crash our economy to pay every worker enough to live on.
 
2014-05-03 02:18:52 PM  
Ed Murray just made himself a one term mayor and Sawant is going to be back to doing nothing like she was before.
 
2014-05-03 02:19:18 PM  

lilplatinum: cig-mkr: And the price of things will have to go up. Just what happens to older folks that are retired and on fixed incomes?
And don't say that SS gives us cost of living adjustments, it's a joke when they issue one, they raise the cost of Medicare, it's almost a wash.

Old people allowed decades of right wing policies to get us to this point, we aren't going to ignore progress just so those selfish farks can be more confortable on a system my generation will likely not see in a particularly meaningful fashion, but still have to fund.


/fark baby boomers
//worst... generation... ever


I agree, when I was born Hitler was still alive, WWII was a happening thing.
So yea fark the boomers.
 
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