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(Slate)   Conservative Christians are the new queers. Hey everybody, let's point and laugh at the new queers   (slate.com) divider line 89
    More: Amusing, Moral Majority, freedom of conscience, technical definition, Russell Moore  
•       •       •

1662 clicks; posted to Politics » on 02 May 2014 at 2:44 PM (43 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



89 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-05-02 12:56:08 PM  
Not queers.

I don't mean that he thinks there's anything wrong with being Christian. I'm using the technical definition of deviance: divergence from the norm. The new norm is acceptance of homosexuality. Those who disagree are, in Moore's language, freaks.

Freaks, yes (in terms of differing from the prevailing moral trend), but not queers. It's still the LGBT community's word. They still own it. It's still a very, very important part of who they are, because while LG and B are becoming vastly accepted across the country, the T part is still an uncomfortable and broadly condemned group. We've become fine with men loving men and women loving women, and men and women loving both, but we still haven't wrapped our heads around the idea of men being women and women being men, either in their self-identification through personal expression or through gender reassignment.

Genderqueer is a still a very vulnerable, misunderstood, and underserved group. Even if condemning homosexuality is the minority, Christianity itself is still very much the norm and while being anti-gay is becoming less socially acceptable it's still seen as something that's broadly done. That's not the case with trans, which most people completely misunderstand. So, no, Christians aren't even farking close to being queer.
 
2014-05-02 12:58:32 PM  
Christians jumping up on the cross again.
 
2014-05-02 01:00:43 PM  
Christians love playing persecuted. And William Saletan is a goddamn moron.
 
2014-05-02 01:03:12 PM  
I would want a presidential candidate who understands the public good of marriage, and I want a presidential candidate who is not hostile toward evangelical and Catholic concerns about those things, and I would want a presidential candidate who is going to protect religious liberty and freedom of conscience.

This article has mutltiple areas of beating around the bush to obscure the point but I can't let these ones slide without comment.
not hostile toward evangelical and Catholic concernsSo a candidate should be tolerant of intolerance or the candidate is attacking Religous Freedom.

freedom of conscienceSuch as the freedom to not have to allow gays the same rights as heterosexuals and of course this could also means the freedom to not give BCPs to sluts if you are a pharamacist or have insurance companies pay for them.
 
2014-05-02 01:05:05 PM  
static.fjcdn.com

static.fjcdn.com
 
2014-05-02 01:05:12 PM  

img.fark.net

 
2014-05-02 01:06:35 PM  
i1.ytimg.com
 
2014-05-02 01:08:21 PM  
Liberals always win, eventually.
 
2014-05-02 01:10:02 PM  
I'm not going to RTFA, but if someone is complaining that they're now a group that should be somehow compared to other people who actually have had to fight against discrimination because of who they are, as opposed to discrimnation because they're hateful and arrogant shiatbags, they can go join that other freak group: the racists.

Go ahead. Hang out with those clowns. Hell, I'm sure there's plenty of crossover between your groups already.
 
2014-05-02 01:13:22 PM  

dr_blasto: Hell, I'm sure there's plenty of crossover between your groups already.


Here's a Venn Diagram:

www.iconsdb.com
 
2014-05-02 01:14:34 PM  
conceptart.org
A word, Christians. When you're truly having it rough, the world will know, and you won't have to write an op-ed to prove it.
 
2014-05-02 01:15:44 PM  
Sure, you laugh now, but I'd like to see what you people do when the first Conservative Christian Pride Parade takes over downtown San Francisco.
 
2014-05-02 01:20:20 PM  

Pocket Ninja: Sure, you laugh now, but I'd like to see what you people do when the first Conservative Christian Pride Parade takes over downtown San Francisco.


[see image i posted above]
 
2014-05-02 01:22:01 PM  

Pocket Ninja: Sure, you laugh now, but I'd like to see what you people do when the first Conservative Christian Pride Parade takes over downtown San Francisco.


Holy crap. I'm not a conservative christian, but I want to start organizing that parade.

For teh lulz ...
 
2014-05-02 01:28:51 PM  

Pocket Ninja: Sure, you laugh now, but I'd like to see what you people do when the first Conservative Christian Pride Parade takes over downtown San Francisco.


I've seen those in Mexico during Semana Santa.  Is it wrong that I always cheer for the Romans?

img.fark.net
 
2014-05-02 01:29:33 PM  

unyon: Pocket Ninja: Sure, you laugh now, but I'd like to see what you people do when the first Conservative Christian Pride Parade takes over downtown San Francisco.

I've seen those in Mexico during Semana Santa.  Is it wrong that I always cheer for the Romans?

[img.fark.net image 228x152]


May as well pick the winner.
 
2014-05-02 01:32:57 PM  
And what about all those people who think race mixing is an abomination unto The Lord? Why don't liberals respect them? Why do we have all these mixed race couples and Rashida Jones looking people being shoved down our throat?
 
2014-05-02 01:33:10 PM  

Pocket Ninja: Sure, you laugh now, but I'd like to see what you people do when the first Conservative Christian Pride Parade takes over downtown San Francisco.


The takeover bid failed when 98% of the male marchers went missing around the time the parade passed the first bath house.
 
2014-05-02 01:37:20 PM  
No, no they aren't.
 
2014-05-02 01:39:18 PM  

Diogenes: [img.fark.net image 279x181]


I'd like to see that animated
 
2014-05-02 01:39:32 PM  

Bloody William: It's still the LGBT community's word.


I've got news for you. Nobody "owns" a word.

kxs401: Christians love playing persecuted.


That's an awfully broad brush you're painting with, my dear.

Mr. Coffee Nerves: The takeover bid failed when 98% of the male marchers went missing around the time the parade passed the first bath house.


A gay joke. How clever.
 
2014-05-02 01:48:53 PM  

Pokey.Clyde: I've got news for you. Nobody "owns" a word.


Well, Aaron Paul owns "biatch." At least I hope he does, because otherwise, I'm going to feel awfully foolish for sending him those royalty checks.
 
2014-05-02 01:52:02 PM  

Pokey.Clyde: Bloody William: It's still the LGBT community's word.

I've got news for you. Nobody "owns" a word.

kxs401: Christians love playing persecuted.

That's an awfully broad brush you're painting with, my dear.


Just because a brush is broad doesn't mean it is inaccurate. For example did you know that the central story of the entire christian religion revolves around the persecution of Christ by Romans. That's even how he got his name.
 
2014-05-02 01:53:13 PM  

Secret Agent X23: Pokey.Clyde: I've got news for you. Nobody "owns" a word.

Well, Aaron Paul owns "biatch." At least I hope he does, because otherwise, I'm going to feel awfully foolish for sending him those royalty checks.


I thought John Romero owned that word.  The royalty charge was that you had to play Daikatana.
 
2014-05-02 01:59:12 PM  

Pokey.Clyde: Bloody William: It's still the LGBT community's word.


I've got news for you. Nobody "owns" a word.


They do possess the majority jurisdiction of the word when it's been used to persecute and identify them for decades. Similarly, when the main group that has persecuted against them starts to consider itself as able to use that word because they're suddenly so completely put out by people judging their moral decisions which makes them completely (not) just like that group that was systematically discriminated against and often violently accosted, the use of that word can be safely considered entirely farking condescending, hypocritical, and insulting.

31.media.tumblr.com

Unless you're just taking it back.
 
2014-05-02 02:05:20 PM  

Tigger: Just because a brush is broad doesn't mean it is inaccurate.


But in this case, I think it is. You only hear about the whiny ones. Just as very few Muslims are terrorists, and very few Christians are abortion clinic bombers, I really don't think that many Christians love playing persecuted. I won't say most, because there really is no way to know, but many Christians are of the "live and let live" variety.
 
2014-05-02 02:08:18 PM  

Pokey.Clyde: but many Christians are of the "live and let live" variety.


Perhaps, but until they start standing up and speaking out against the vocal minority, they will be seen as at least condoning the behavior.
 
2014-05-02 02:08:46 PM  

Pokey.Clyde: Tigger: Just because a brush is broad doesn't mean it is inaccurate.

But in this case, I think it is. You only hear about the whiny ones. Just as very few Muslims are terrorists, and very few Christians are abortion clinic bombers, I really don't think that many Christians love playing persecuted. I won't say most, because there really is no way to know, but many Christians are of the "live and let live" variety.


There isn't a big political movement among American Muslims to make blowing up buildings legal. There is a big political movement among American conservative Christians to limit the rights of homosexuals. They are now claiming persecution when laws prevent them from limiting the rights of homosexuals. They're not only being vocal about it, they have a large presence in government that has the power to influence it.

Many Christians are live and let live. It seems like most Christians who run for Congress or get in front of a camera sure as fark aren't.
 
2014-05-02 02:34:12 PM  

RedPhoenix122: Pokey.Clyde: but many Christians are of the "live and let live" variety.

Perhaps, but until they start standing up and speaking out against the vocal minority, they will be seen as at least condoning the behavior.


I've stood up in the past (here and other places) and will do so in the future.  But nobody on TV or the press cares to hear what I have to say.

Fundies are a blight on us all.
 
2014-05-02 02:49:39 PM  

Pokey.Clyde: That's an awfully broad brush you're painting with, my dear.


If the cross fits, nail yourself to it.
 
2014-05-02 02:53:52 PM  

Pokey.Clyde: many Christians are of the "live and let live" variety


Not sure where you live, but here in America that variety are out-spoken, out-organized and, by a tremendous margin, out-voted by the other variety.  The ones that want to tell us all how to live.  The ones that speak for your religion, elect your representatives and pass restrictive laws that take freedoms from the rest of us.

So sure, I'll grant that there are "many" of them.  They are simply an insignificant political bloc and not who we are discussing.
 
2014-05-02 02:58:11 PM  
I forgot I was supposed to pick fairy tales over love.  My mistake.
 
2014-05-02 02:59:50 PM  
"And I say we should embrace the freakishness of Christianity..."

Just let your freak flag fly guys...
 
2014-05-02 03:00:36 PM  

unyon: Pocket Ninja: Sure, you laugh now, but I'd like to see what you people do when the first Conservative Christian Pride Parade takes over downtown San Francisco.

I've seen those in Mexico during Semana Santa.  Is it wrong that I always cheer for the Romans?

[img.fark.net image 228x152]


photos1.blogger.com

Nope.
 
2014-05-02 03:02:44 PM  
conservative christians are the largest single demographic in america and control virtually all positions of power at all levels of government

i hope this helps
 
2014-05-02 03:03:16 PM  

Bloody William: There isn't a big political movement among American Muslims to make blowing up buildings legal. There is a big political movement among American conservative Christians to limit the rights of homosexuals. They are now claiming persecution when laws prevent them from limiting the rights of homosexuals. They're not only being vocal about it, they have a large presence in government that has the power to influence it.


I bolded the key word there.

Bloody William: Many Christians are live and let live. It seems like most Christians who run for Congress or get in front of a camera sure as fark aren't.


I hate to break it to you, but a lot of "Christians", whether it be running for Congress or otherwise in front of a camera, aren't really Christians. Whether they believe themselves to be or not, the only reason they bring it up is for political reasons, because they think it will help them.

I'm not here to argue that there aren't dumbasses out there. They come in just about any flavor imaginable. I just get sick of the stereotypes sometimes, i.e. all Texans are rednecks, all Christians are bigots, etc...

/running late for a meeting
//if this thread hasn't devolved into trolls and assholes in an hour or so, I'll be back
 
2014-05-02 03:07:42 PM  
"Christianity becomes, with a secularizing America, increasingly strange and increasingly freakish to many people."

Hey, you're the ones doing the ritualized cannibalism.  Just sayin'.
 
2014-05-02 03:08:08 PM  

Diogenes: Pocket Ninja: Sure, you laugh now, but I'd like to see what you people do when the first Conservative Christian Pride Parade takes over downtown San Francisco.

[see image i posted above]


Oh crap, I went to  EyeballKid's post instead. Putting away aghast/amused face...
 
2014-05-02 03:09:19 PM  

Pokey.Clyde: Bloody William: It's still the LGBT community's word.

I've got news for you. Nobody "owns" a word.

kxs401: Christians love playing persecuted.

That's an awfully broad brush you're painting with, my dear.

Mr. Coffee Nerves: The takeover bid failed when 98% of the male marchers went missing around the time the parade passed the first bath house.

A gay joke. How clever.


How about n*gger? People used to own those words...
 
2014-05-02 03:12:30 PM  

kxs401: William Saletan is a goddamn moron.


And probably a racist and a bit of a misogynist to boot, but these conditions are often comorbid with the afflcition of goddamn moronosity.
 
2014-05-02 03:13:01 PM  

Bloody William: Not queers.

I don't mean that he thinks there's anything wrong with being Christian. I'm using the technical definition of deviance: divergence from the norm. The new norm is acceptance of homosexuality. Those who disagree are, in Moore's language, freaks.

Freaks, yes (in terms of differing from the prevailing moral trend), but not queers. It's still the LGBT community's word. They still own it. It's still a very, very important part of who they are, because while LG and B are becoming vastly accepted across the country, the T part is still an uncomfortable and broadly condemned group. We've become fine with men loving men and women loving women, and men and women loving both, but we still haven't wrapped our heads around the idea of men being women and women being men, either in their self-identification through personal expression or through gender reassignment.

Genderqueer is a still a very vulnerable, misunderstood, and underserved group. Even if condemning homosexuality is the minority, Christianity itself is still very much the norm and while being anti-gay is becoming less socially acceptable it's still seen as something that's broadly done. That's not the case with trans, which most people completely misunderstand. So, no, Christians aren't even farking close to being queer.


Heck, there are parts of the LGB community that try to ostracize/exclude the T part, because... I dunno. The same reason why people who fought for inter-racial marriage cry for "Traditional marriage" when opposing homosexual marriage? (Bigots be everywhere, I guess.)

(And then there's trans-exclusive feminists...)
 
2014-05-02 03:17:31 PM  
They are merely suggesting that conservative Christians are weirdos.

Wait, that didn't come out right.
 
2014-05-02 03:27:12 PM  
An interesting thing to dwell on: while I was growing up in England, apart from very specific contexts, anyone carrying or waving the English or GB flags was assumed to be a violent bigoted thug, probably a member of the BNP or EDL or something along those lines. As it had become associated to such people (in part through association with football hooliganism of that era), the rest of the population disassociated themselves from them, in turn making it even more associated only with such usage, causing a downward spiral.*

I do wonder if something similar could happen with Christianity in the US - basically in the public eye it is more and more associated with hatred, intolerance, hypocrisy, child sex abuse, etc. Given an aging demographic already, having a reputation from the loudest and most "newsworthy" figureheads could the more "live and let live" Christians to hide their faith to avoid strangers assuming they are similar to the popular image Christianity in the US is gaining, which could then easily cause a similar pattern of making public profession of Christianity ever more toxic.


*As I recall this finally was fully broken by both the mostly successful de-hooliganisation of football in the early 90s and capped off by hosting Euro 96
 
2014-05-02 03:31:00 PM  
Martyr yourselves
 
2014-05-02 03:33:29 PM  

Pokey.Clyde: I hate to break it to you, but a lot of "Christians", whether it be running for Congress or otherwise in front of a camera, aren't really Christians.


And a lot of people in Scotland aren't true Scotsmen.

I'm not saying all Christians are bigots. I'm saying the loudest and most politically influential ones in this country tend to be.

Felgraf: Heck, there are parts of the LGB community that try to ostracize/exclude the T part, because... I dunno. The same reason why people who fought for inter-racial marriage cry for "Traditional marriage" when opposing homosexual marriage? (Bigots be everywhere, I guess.)

(And then there's trans-exclusive feminists...)


I still don't understand how feminists in general can be so homophobic. They're always complaining about the male gays.
 
2014-05-02 03:34:52 PM  
I never laughed at gays or lesbians; I'm not laughing at Christians.

Just some of the asinine things both groups do.
 
2014-05-02 03:41:11 PM  
I found this on the Facebook page of a family member today. I just had to shake my head.

24.media.tumblr.com
 
2014-05-02 03:43:26 PM  

Iggie: I found this on the Facebook page of a family member today. I just had to shake my head.

[24.media.tumblr.com image 480x315]


Being straight and unashamed means screaming at gay people YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED, YOU farkING FREAKS! WHAT, SUDDENLY THAT OPINION ISN'T ACCEPTABLE? WHY ARE YOU OPPRESSING ME? I HAVE EVERY RIGHT! IT'S YOU WHO ARE THE BIGOT!
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2014-05-02 03:54:59 PM  
You know what the biggest difference between Con-Christians and gays?  The Conservative Christians CHOOSE to be Conservative Christians.

It's a choice, therefore ridicule is okay.  It's the ruleset we have already been following.
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2014-05-02 03:56:43 PM  

Iggie: I found this on the Facebook page of a family member today. I just had to shake my head.

[24.media.tumblr.com image 480x315]


I'm proud to be straight.  I love curvy, sexy brunettes.  This doesn't mean that I want to say gays are secondary and deserve ridicule.  I have a feeling a lot of the major anti-gay bigots (the ones that aren't gay themselves) we the bullies in their schools when they were growing up.  Their pride somehow means everyone else has to be lesser.
 
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