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(Washington Post)   I don't see why there is all this hate for Micro$oft. It only took them 11 years to release that security update for Internet Explorer, but they included XP for it   (washingtonpost.com) divider line 133
    More: Misc, Internet Explorer, security updates, Microsoft, automatic updates, Trustworthy Computing, targeted attacks, Windows XP  
•       •       •

4499 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 May 2014 at 2:24 PM (29 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-02 04:29:52 PM  

letrole: lordargent: The login even sounds like 'troll', and I normally wouldn't reply (I think I even had him on my ignore list for a bit).

My surname is Le Trôle.


Wait.. Literally (le-trole-eh) or Figuratively?
i.imgur.com
 
2014-05-02 04:30:30 PM  

Cpl.D: Still doing the Micro$oft thing?  After Bill Gates spends ass-tons of money for charitable causes, while Steve Jobs treated his employees like crap and whose only charitable work was gifting his chinese workers suicide nets?  Really?


Guess who didn't read the thread?
 
2014-05-02 04:32:14 PM  

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: skozlaw: you may not care about IT, but it could be used to attack things you might care about. Even the router itself that's core to your network.

[img.fark.net image 600x381]


Thanks for posting that. Im going to include it in my next security briefing if you don't mind.
 
2014-05-02 04:34:35 PM  

Nadie_AZ: It taught me a good lesson on choosing sides. Now I tend to side with whichever tool/OS is best for the job. I prefer *nix, but no longer hate MS.


It helps that all of the OS vendors have matured quite a bit. Comparing where we are now with the 90's and early 2k's, the difference is so stark. If I had to go back to Win98/NT4, System 8, Netware, or Slackware, I'd pound my head into my desk so hard I forgot my own name.
 
2014-05-02 04:36:34 PM  

Gonz: Cpl.D: Still doing the Micro$oft thing?  After Bill Gates spends ass-tons of money for charitable causes, while Steve Jobs treated his employees like crap and whose only charitable work was gifting his chinese workers suicide nets?  Really?

Guess who didn't read the thread?


You realize you're asking someone on Fark that question.  Right?
 
2014-05-02 04:40:57 PM  

TNel: Netrngr: Or get an IT department that knows what the fark its doing and uses modern equipment. Just sayin' I have a 750-1000 user environment 53 servers and a staff of 4 guys and we handle a Dynamics2012 ERP cluster on top of the normal stuff our workstations boot in 3 sec ready to work. You have to limit the end users abilities to install anything and test all patches before you let them auto install. Don't blame MS because your IT guys are too lazy or too limited in their budget to do their jobs efficiently.Auditing/backups/patches etc should be done after hours and no weekends and shouldn't effect users performance in the least. Invest in your IT infrastructure and your department and they will invest in your continued success.

BS you can't even POST in 3 seconds.  You couldn't get an AD/LDAP lookup in 3 seconds.  God forbid you have Novel and Zenworks.  God I hate Zenworks, such a steaming pile of shiat.


You do realize that you can set the POST on most modern computers to be a silent check and only display if there is an error. I wasn't clear in my Boobies. I don't consider the machine functions part of the OS boot. I just timed my PC at work and from the OS start it was 4.5 seconds from windows start to ready to work. That said our machines all have SSDs in them and a pretty huge amount of RAM with static IP addressing so a lot of the busy work is done by simply eliminating the need for IP assignment, and as far as your statement on LDAP/AD if your OUs are properly maintained and purged then yes you can. Most folks do not follow best practices for AD cleanup and indexing. Just like any other database it requires maintenance.
 
2014-05-02 04:41:50 PM  

CeroX: I used to work at a HIPAA controlled place...

"But why can't *I* have access to Drop Box? I'm the personal assistant to Mr. VP of marketing and since you won't let me send this 258MB Power Point with embedded video to these external people through Outlook, they need SOME way of seeing this presentation! When Mr. VP of Marketing hears that his clients can't see this presentation I worked 3 weeks on, he's going to call someone important!"


At which point you're hindering getting work done.  You know, the exact opposite of what your job in IT actually is?

A quick google found this:  https://www.sookasa.com/blog/how-to-maintain-hipaa-compliance-with-dr o pbox-and-box/

And there are likely other products out there that will fix your issue.

And what are you doing with marketing on the same net with patient data anyway?  They don't need access to that.  They DO need to be able to do their jobs.  Put them outside the patient data firewall.  If they truly need access to both, put two computers on their desks.
 
2014-05-02 04:43:02 PM  
img.fark.net
 
2014-05-02 04:48:06 PM  

nocturnal001: Does using a dollar sign in place of the S in microsoft drive anyone else nuts? It's just stupid because yeah, they are just about the money, just like every other company. For me it ranks right up there with calling the Democratic Party "The Democrat Party".


OT:

You do realize that when the party was first formed the term "Democratic" was used as an insult to the Anti-Federalists by the Federalists.   Some how the name stuck.
 
2014-05-02 04:50:10 PM  

CeroX: AspectRatio: laptops in use at my office.

I get it, i do... and i'm not lashing out, believe me... I completely understand... what you guys fail to realize is this though, corporate computers have quite literally all that software i listed in my original post... best analogy can give you is, when you access or write a byte of data on your company laptop, that byte then becomes the victim of a data tug of war between the antivirus and encryption software. They both attempt to access that byte at the same time and it goes through a "mother may I" game before it will come to you, or go to your hard drive. Multiply that by the 1000's of bytes per actual block of information, and then multiply that by however many programs you are running, and yeah, the work computers are going to be slower than a Mac, or even just your home PC if you use one.

So yes, I get it, and at this point have come to accept it...

What bothers me is when people use $$$ to indicate that somehow MS is more money hungry than Apple, when Apple's entire pricing scheme is based on exploiting the frustration people generally feel with their work computers and are willing to pay triple for a system that doesn't come with the emotional baggage that their work computers do...

And the whole excuse about safety and viruses is ONLY because Apple is not the standard for business computing. If it was, the virus architects and hackers out there would spend all their time exploiting iOS instead of Windows...


All that and since I think it was like 2000 or 2001 Mac books use pretty much the same hardware as those 700 dollar windows PCs so really its the OS that coasting you tripple.
 
2014-05-02 04:51:54 PM  

NateAsbestos: The hate for Microsoft partly stems from IE's very existence, subby.


Naah, I hated M$ long before that.  I believe it started with a steaming piece of shiat known as M$-DOS.

/Last good product from M$ - AppleSoft BASIC.
 
2014-05-02 04:53:45 PM  

FTGodWin: Netrngr: Or get an IT department that knows what the fark its doing

You know, like posting on Fark all day instead of working.


Wow I gotta remember Im not allowed any vacation time while working in IT. How dare I take a day off or a break or anything. I stand corrected.
 
2014-05-02 04:53:51 PM  

Netrngr: You do realize that you can set the POST on most modern computers to be a silent check and only display if there is an error. I wasn't clear in my Boobies. I don't consider the machine functions part of the OS boot. I just timed my PC at work and from the OS start it was 4.5 seconds from windows start to ready to work. That said our machines all have SSDs in them and a pretty huge amount of RAM with static IP addressing so a lot of the busy work is done by simply eliminating the need for IP assignment, and as far as your statement on LDAP/AD if your OUs are properly maintained and purged then yes you can. Most folks do not follow best practices for AD cleanup and indexing. Just like any other database it requires maintenance.


When is boot not boot?
When you just don't call it that.


How can I eliminate slow boots on a network where I actually bother with maintaining and pruning AD?
Seemples. Eliminate DHCP.
 
2014-05-02 04:56:18 PM  

Gonz: Nope. Apple's a BSD distribution. It's a POSIX- compliant OS, which makes it virtually impossible to write a virus for.


That's a nice sentiment, but not true. Hell a simple google search "can a mac get a virus" will turn up a yes on literally every reply.

Is it harder to write one for? Sure. But I'm in the camp of "but who would want to?". When the business standard is PC, you attack PC. Viruses are there as exploits to gain information, and no information is more valuable than company and government secrets. Access to your bank account might be nice for the amateur, but a real hacker wants access to formulas, project details, schematics, or trade information. That's where the real money is. And that information just isn't going to be out there on Macs...
 
2014-05-02 04:58:29 PM  

CeroX: MightyPez: TNel: TNel: CeroX: Naturally, this is all Microsoft's fault. Not the bloated corporate versions of antivirus, encryption, start up scripts, group policy updates, security patches, inventory auditing, security monitoring and software distribution suites that also start up when they log into the machine... no... It's Windows...

LOL  I get that at my work.  Each year we get really nice computers to replace the old ones and they are quick... then we add in all the network software, anti-virus, etc and they are slow and people complain because their home computer is faster.  No shiat my home PC is faster also but it's not connecting to a bunch of crap in the morning.

Oops forgot to add they are usually the same people that complain about the wifi access and why can't we go to walmart and buy some more routers, they just got one for $50 and it's great, why do you need to spend $500 on an access point?

Do we work at the same place?

"No, you can't setup this router you got a great deal on because we specifically limit access due to federally mandated HIPAA guidelines. I know it's a bummer you can't use your cell phone on the wifi because it's weak in this part of the building and you don't want to pay network telecom services $3000 to put a new one in, but that's how it is.

I used to work at a HIPAA controlled place...

"But why can't *I* have access to Drop Box? I'm the personal assistant to Mr. VP of marketing and since you won't let me send this 258MB Power Point with embedded video to these external people through Outlook, they need SOME way of seeing this presentation! When Mr. VP of Marketing hears that his clients can't see this presentation I worked 3 weeks on, he's going to call someone important!"


Ive heard that a billion times. We turned off the ability to use You send it/or thumb drives and all file transfers have to go through us.
 
2014-05-02 04:59:44 PM  

Netrngr: CeroX: AspectRatio: laptops in use at my office.

I get it, i do... and i'm not lashing out, believe me... I completely understand... what you guys fail to realize is this though, corporate computers have quite literally all that software i listed in my original post... best analogy can give you is, when you access or write a byte of data on your company laptop, that byte then becomes the victim of a data tug of war between the antivirus and encryption software. They both attempt to access that byte at the same time and it goes through a "mother may I" game before it will come to you, or go to your hard drive. Multiply that by the 1000's of bytes per actual block of information, and then multiply that by however many programs you are running, and yeah, the work computers are going to be slower than a Mac, or even just your home PC if you use one.

So yes, I get it, and at this point have come to accept it...

What bothers me is when people use $$$ to indicate that somehow MS is more money hungry than Apple, when Apple's entire pricing scheme is based on exploiting the frustration people generally feel with their work computers and are willing to pay triple for a system that doesn't come with the emotional baggage that their work computers do...

And the whole excuse about safety and viruses is ONLY because Apple is not the standard for business computing. If it was, the virus architects and hackers out there would spend all their time exploiting iOS instead of Windows...

All that and since I think it was like 2000 or 2001 Mac books use pretty much the same hardware as those 700 dollar windows PCs so really its the OS that coasting you tripple.


Bullshiat

Bullshiat

Bullshiat
 
2014-05-02 05:00:08 PM  
www.jokesduniya.com
Oldy, but releant
 
2014-05-02 05:01:37 PM  

DarkVader: CeroX: I used to work at a HIPAA controlled place...

"But why can't *I* have access to Drop Box? I'm the personal assistant to Mr. VP of marketing and since you won't let me send this 258MB Power Point with embedded video to these external people through Outlook, they need SOME way of seeing this presentation! When Mr. VP of Marketing hears that his clients can't see this presentation I worked 3 weeks on, he's going to call someone important!"

At which point you're hindering getting work done.  You know, the exact opposite of what your job in IT actually is?

A quick google found this:  https://www.sookasa.com/blog/how-to-maintain-hipaa-compliance-with-dr o pbox-and-box/

And there are likely other products out there that will fix your issue.

And what are you doing with marketing on the same net with patient data anyway?  They don't need access to that.  They DO need to be able to do their jobs.  Put them outside the patient data firewall.  If they truly need access to both, put two computers on their desks.


I can't speak for CeroX, but people will use services that are not HIPAA compliant in place of already implemented and similar solutions. Dropbox is a great example of this at my place. We already have several in house solutions to sync and share files to outside sources as well as a BAA with Google for Google Drive access. Our security team has bent over backwards to get these in place. Dumping money for a third party to make another third party compliant would be a waste of money, time, and resources not to mention a logistical nightmare. And that doesn't cover the other myriad of services. What if people want OneDrive? Cubby? SugarSync? Do they have to cover every single service when they are serve the same functional purpose and just have a different name?

And that's just file syncing. What about email? Do they have to verify every third party service for that as well, or do they mandate a single mail system? Operating systems? Windows XP is out of support, are we suppose to allow anyone to use it because if we don't we're not providing good service?
 
2014-05-02 05:02:46 PM  
Today I updated to IE 10 (from 8) on my work computer.

Am IT pro

.

I AM THE GOAT: I am using a Macbook Pro circa 2008.  I upgraded the memory to 8GB and bought a new battery for it, but it still works like a champ.  My wife is on her third low-mid range ($600-800) laptop in that same time frame.


Wait, if the cheap machines your wife uses only last a third as long but cost a third as much... what's the problem?
 
2014-05-02 05:05:23 PM  

DarkVader: CeroX: I used to work at a HIPAA controlled place...

"But why can't *I* have access to Drop Box? I'm the personal assistant to Mr. VP of marketing and since you won't let me send this 258MB Power Point with embedded video to these external people through Outlook, they need SOME way of seeing this presentation! When Mr. VP of Marketing hears that his clients can't see this presentation I worked 3 weeks on, he's going to call someone important!"

At which point you're hindering getting work done.  You know, the exact opposite of what your job in IT actually is?

A quick google found this:  https://www.sookasa.com/blog/how-to-maintain-hipaa-compliance-with-dr o pbox-and-box/

And there are likely other products out there that will fix your issue.

And what are you doing with marketing on the same net with patient data anyway?  They don't need access to that.  They DO need to be able to do their jobs.  Put them outside the patient data firewall.  If they truly need access to both, put two computers on their desks.


1.) I don't work at that company any longer
2.) I didn't set the policy, I was, for lack of a better term, a grunt
3.) The company has well over 10,000 employees and changing any infrastructure there is a 2 year long project, due to it's size.
4.) All data was on the same network. HIPAA information was locked behind permissioning and blah blah blah, but again: It boiled down to the suits who make the policy, the not grunt on the front lines...
 
2014-05-02 05:10:27 PM  
gee, Avast said it had my back days ago.
 
2014-05-02 05:23:32 PM  

DarkVader: Netrngr: CeroX: AspectRatio: laptops in use at my office.

I get it, i do... and i'm not lashing out, believe me... I completely understand... what you guys fail to realize is this though, corporate computers have quite literally all that software i listed in my original post... best analogy can give you is, when you access or write a byte of data on your company laptop, that byte then becomes the victim of a data tug of war between the antivirus and encryption software. They both attempt to access that byte at the same time and it goes through a "mother may I" game before it will come to you, or go to your hard drive. Multiply that by the 1000's of bytes per actual block of information, and then multiply that by however many programs you are running, and yeah, the work computers are going to be slower than a Mac, or even just your home PC if you use one.

So yes, I get it, and at this point have come to accept it...

What bothers me is when people use $$$ to indicate that somehow MS is more money hungry than Apple, when Apple's entire pricing scheme is based on exploiting the frustration people generally feel with their work computers and are willing to pay triple for a system that doesn't come with the emotional baggage that their work computers do...

And the whole excuse about safety and viruses is ONLY because Apple is not the standard for business computing. If it was, the virus architects and hackers out there would spend all their time exploiting iOS instead of Windows...

All that and since I think it was like 2000 or 2001 Mac books use pretty much the same hardware as those 700 dollar windows PCs so really its the OS that coasting you tripple.

Bullshiat

Bullshiat

Bullshiat


For the middle one, that's what you get for using Intel products... switch those parts out with AMD brand and the cost just cut in half or more...

I JUST built a new PC last week, 3.9ghz AMD 8-Core processor ASUS MB, ASUS/AMD graphics card 4G DDR5, 120G SSD, 3TB WD HDD, water cooled, 24" 120hz LED monitor, the works

Total cost? $1200

Had i gone Intel CPU and Graphics, I would be looking at over $2k

So comparing Mac prices to PC prices when using the same brands might be similar, but a smart builder or shopper can get the same computing power for a LOT less money...
 
2014-05-02 05:32:30 PM  
Let me just say that writing secure software is *hard*. I would know; I have found some bugs myself, including one in Windows and one in Mac OS X. (I'm credited for the Mac one; the Windows one is pending.)

Code audits and coding style policies can only catch so much. Ultimately, the Halting Problem screws you in the end - looking at a program and knowing what it will do is equivalently difficult to proving a mathematical theorem. Proving such theorems for a 10-line program might be feasible sometimes, but web browsers are some of the biggest applications out there. Not to mention that I can easily write a ~20-line Python program that nobody in the last 2,200 years has been able to determine whether it terminates (the odd perfect number conjecture).
 
2014-05-02 06:30:49 PM  

CeroX: the bloated corporate versions of antivirus, encryption, start up scripts, group policy updates, security patches, inventory auditing, security monitoring and software distribution suites that also start up when they log into the machine


This.  Sooo much THIS.  Only at work can I crash Windows Explorer.  I am pretty sure its not Microsoft's fault.
 
2014-05-02 06:33:42 PM  
 
2014-05-02 06:36:15 PM  

DarkVader: NateAsbestos: The hate for Microsoft partly stems from IE's very existence, subby.

Naah, I hated M$ long before that.  I believe it started with a steaming piece of shiat known as M$-DOS.

/Last good product from M$ - AppleSoft BASIC.


Hey, Word 4 for the Mac KICKED ASS!
 
2014-05-02 06:52:55 PM  

Netrngr: Thanks for posting that. Im going to include it in my next security briefing if you don't mind.


Yeah, it's not mine. I stole it from krebsonsecurity.com. He has a higher rez version on his site.
 
2014-05-02 07:01:00 PM  

Shelbyville: Does the end of XP support really matter if I'm using a good antivirus program like Avast and am using a non IE browser like Chrome/Firefox?

Still use XP for my entertainment center desktop computer. See no reason to upgrade it if its main usage is living room internet browsing, streaming video, and some older Steam games.


<csb>
I once put a pre-SP 2 XP box on the network. It took 3 seconds for it to be compromised.
</csb>

Unless you're like me and work for a corporation that shelled out a metric ass-tonne of cash  to extend XP support, unplug that thing.
 
2014-05-02 07:21:21 PM  

DarkVader: Netrngr: CeroX: AspectRatio: laptops in use at my office.

I get it, i do... and i'm not lashing out, believe me... I completely understand... what you guys fail to realize is this though, corporate computers have quite literally all that software i listed in my original post... best analogy can give you is, when you access or write a byte of data on your company laptop, that byte then becomes the victim of a data tug of war between the antivirus and encryption software. They both attempt to access that byte at the same time and it goes through a "mother may I" game before it will come to you, or go to your hard drive. Multiply that by the 1000's of bytes per actual block of information, and then multiply that by however many programs you are running, and yeah, the work computers are going to be slower than a Mac, or even just your home PC if you use one.

So yes, I get it, and at this point have come to accept it...

What bothers me is when people use $$$ to indicate that somehow MS is more money hungry than Apple, when Apple's entire pricing scheme is based on exploiting the frustration people generally feel with their work computers and are willing to pay triple for a system that doesn't come with the emotional baggage that their work computers do...

And the whole excuse about safety and viruses is ONLY because Apple is not the standard for business computing. If it was, the virus architects and hackers out there would spend all their time exploiting iOS instead of Windows...

All that and since I think it was like 2000 or 2001 Mac books use pretty much the same hardware as those 700 dollar windows PCs so really its the OS that coasting you tripple.

Bullshiat

Bullshiat

Bullshiat


Yea, it's pretty easy to cherry pick.  How about this:  Call bullshiat and link me to a new 600$ macbook.  The lowest model is $1200 and has the specs of any cheap acer or asus.

I'm not hating on mac but saying they're not overpriced comparatively is just being dishonest.

I get why people are willing to pay more, just saying they are.
 
2014-05-02 07:21:29 PM  

skozlaw: What an insanely stupid headline.

Shelbyville: Does the end of XP support really matter if I'm using a good antivirus program like Avast and am using a non IE browser like Chrome/Firefox?

It certainly does. An antivirus application only protects against viruses and, even not using IE, there are still dozens of other things running on the system that can be exploited. For example, say the DHCP client on XP is discovered to have a problem whereby an attacker can send a packet of data to it, crash it and take over the process's shell to run other commands. That's not a virus and a/v software won't protect against it. A firewall might, but a firewall is another process that can be exploited.

These problems DO exist and WILL be used by attackers. They will NOT be fixed by Microsoft (well, except when they will be, like this).

Short of completely isolating the PC, you cannot protect it. And the problem becomes that, depending on what else it can see adjacent on the network, you may not care about IT, but it could be used to attack things you might care about. Even the router itself that's core to your network.


Not necessarily true. You can still safely use XP if you follow some semblance of best practices. (you should be doing this anyway)

*Don't connect the PC directly to the Internet, keep it behind a HW firewall (not just a router).
*Turn off services you don't need, i.e peer to peer, UPNP, server service, etc.
*Run Chrome or Firefox w/ Adblock, etc. Use EMET with IE if you *HAVE* to use it.
*Don't install extraneous software if you don't need it. (i.e. do you ever actually USE Java?) Uninstall what you don't need.
*Keep what plugins you do have installed UPGRADED (Flash/Java/Reader/etc).
*Activate the Windows/3rd party firewall and actually CONFIGURE it.
*Keep you AntiVirus program current, and configured for heuristics
*Use OpenDNS or like service for your DNS provider and configure it to block malicious sites.
*Don't use admin credentials unless you have to. Login with a restricted user account for normal activities.
*Don't be an Idiot.
*Don't surf porn/torrents/etc.
 
2014-05-02 07:29:41 PM  

NateAsbestos: The hate for Microsoft partly stems from IE's very existence, subby.


As someone who spent all afternoon fixing a bug caused by the latest version of IE 11 yet again, I can understand it.
 
2014-05-02 07:35:02 PM  

letrole: lordargent: The login even sounds like 'troll', and I normally wouldn't reply (I think I even had him on my ignore list for a bit).

My surname is Le Trôle.


DRINK!
 
2014-05-02 08:03:09 PM  

Dinjiin: sotua: $0 licensing is a real and tangible benefit available to all.

Which is just one part of the total cost of ownership for a product.  For many companies and organizations, the real costs may come from support, training and reliability.

There is a reason why a number of companies have become very rich providing consulting and support services for Linux and BSD.  Companies and organizations may be bound by terms and service agreements that require a higher level of service and support than can be obtained by the original authors, or even third party services.

So I'd say that you're partially right - it is a potential benefit for all.


Indeed. Having someone to yell at is an often overlooked benefit to vendor software, particularly in small shops where it budgets are thin.
 
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