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(Washington Post)   I don't see why there is all this hate for Micro$oft. It only took them 11 years to release that security update for Internet Explorer, but they included XP for it   ( washingtonpost.com) divider line
    More: Misc, Internet Explorer, security updates, Microsoft, automatic updates, Trustworthy Computing, targeted attacks, Windows XP  
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4565 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 May 2014 at 2:24 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



133 Comments     (+0 »)
 
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2014-05-02 11:57:48 AM  
Nice trolly headline

The headline would be accurate if Microsoft knew about the problem 11 years ago. They didn't.
 
2014-05-02 02:27:45 PM  
The hate for Microsoft partly stems from IE's very existence, subby.
 
2014-05-02 02:29:46 PM  
I would like to see a browser that hasn't had critical security issues discovered years after it's release.
 
2014-05-02 02:30:39 PM  
they included XP? Do I get to evolve to my final form?

memeguy.com
 
2014-05-02 02:32:26 PM  
I know a guy who works at MS who had been going around with a big smug smirk due to all the heartbleed snafu. Time for some payback.
 
2014-05-02 02:33:41 PM  
Does using a dollar sign in place of the S in microsoft drive anyone else nuts? It's just stupid because yeah, they are just about the money, just like every other company. For me it ranks right up there with calling the Democratic Party "The Democrat Party".
 
2014-05-02 02:36:24 PM  

cman: The headline would be accurate if Microsoft knew about the problem 11 years ago. They didn't.


Going on a tangent, but was this a flaw something that should have been caught a decade ago after Microsoft introduced new code guidelines that enhanced security?  If it should have been caught, why didn't later audits catch it?  If it was beyond established guidelines, should Microsoft expand those guidelines to cover any new threat patterns they've encountered since then?
 
2014-05-02 02:36:52 PM  

olapbill: they included XP? Do I get to evolve to my final form?


No, but you can level up like a normal person. :)

/friggin' Pokemon weirdos....
 
2014-05-02 02:37:39 PM  
This failure clearly illustrates that closed-source software isn't a viable model.
 
2014-05-02 02:38:51 PM  
Does the end of XP support really matter if I'm using a good antivirus program like Avast and am using a non IE browser like Chrome/Firefox?

Still use XP for my entertainment center desktop computer. See no reason to upgrade it if its main usage is living room internet browsing, streaming video, and some older Steam games.
 
2014-05-02 02:43:23 PM  

sotua: I know a guy who works at MS who had been going around with a big smug smirk due to all the heartbleed snafu. Time for some payback.


Really? That's his attitude? Not surprising, but still, wow.
 
2014-05-02 02:44:28 PM  
The hate for MS is easy to identify and understand:

People go to their job, boot up their computer and it takes forever, then once they get on, it might take another 20 minutes before the computer runs properly. Then about once a week, maybe, if they are luck, once a month, there is some sort of update and the computer doesn't act right. Inevitably they either have to call the helpdesk or they get some sort of email announcing a company wide problem. Then a fix is pushed out and they are then told to reboot their computers. 30 minutes later, they are working again.
Then they try to get into that excel file and run a report that they do every week but for some reason, there is a ton of data missing or they receive several macro errors. Again they turn to IT, and it turns out a SQL server is messed up and not feeding data into their workbook correctly. So they can't run that report that is due in 30 minutes (which of course they knew needed to be ran all week), and Excel is broke. 45 minutes later they get an email and the SQL server is back up, but now they only show data from 2 weeks ago and all of last weeks information is just gone... Turns out, co-worker Jenny accidentally overwrote the file on Friday of last week, and no, there is no back up of the file from where you worked on it on Friday AM until Jenny screwed it up in the PM... another 2 hours later and FINALLY all that work is done, the boss is frustrated, but nothing could have been done, and screw it, it's 4:30, time to go home.
That is until the next screw up...

Naturally, this is all Microsoft's fault. Not the bloated corporate versions of antivirus, encryption, start up scripts, group policy updates, security patches, inventory auditing, security monitoring and software distribution suites that also start up when they log into the machine... no... It's Windows...

"So screw that, I'm going to get a computer that just "works". I'm going to buy a Mac..."

$4,500 later...

It works, JUST like they thought it would...

"What do you mean I can't play Call of Duty on my Mac? FINE! I'll buy a PS4!"

$600 later...

"SEE! I can do anything without giving Micro$oft any money at all!!!"
 
2014-05-02 02:47:31 PM  

Shelbyville: Does the end of XP support really matter if I'm using a good antivirus program like Avast and am using a non IE browser like Chrome/Firefox?

Still use XP for my entertainment center desktop computer. See no reason to upgrade it if its main usage is living room internet browsing, streaming video, and some older Steam games.


Yes. Antivirus and firewalls can't be 100% effective against exploits caused by underlying vulnerabilities in XP that are discovered but not patched.
 
2014-05-02 02:49:50 PM  

Shelbyville: Does the end of XP support really matter if I'm using a good antivirus program like Avast and am using a non IE browser like Chrome/Firefox?

Still use XP for my entertainment center desktop computer. See no reason to upgrade it if its main usage is living room internet browsing, streaming video, and some older Steam games.


Keep it offline.
You now have a really nice DVD player.
 
2014-05-02 02:49:55 PM  

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: Shelbyville: Does the end of XP support really matter if I'm using a good antivirus program like Avast and am using a non IE browser like Chrome/Firefox?

Still use XP for my entertainment center desktop computer. See no reason to upgrade it if its main usage is living room internet browsing, streaming video, and some older Steam games.

Yes. Antivirus and firewalls can't be 100% effective against exploits caused by underlying vulnerabilities in XP that are discovered but not patched.


A buddy of mine works for the DoD Cyber Security division, and they have classified XP as a national security threat... so there's that...
 
2014-05-02 02:50:37 PM  

CeroX: Naturally, this is all Microsoft's fault. Not the bloated corporate versions of antivirus, encryption, start up scripts, group policy updates, security patches, inventory auditing, security monitoring and software distribution suites that also start up when they log into the machine... no... It's Windows...


LOL  I get that at my work.  Each year we get really nice computers to replace the old ones and they are quick... then we add in all the network software, anti-virus, etc and they are slow and people complain because their home computer is faster.  No shiat my home PC is faster also but it's not connecting to a bunch of crap in the morning.
 
2014-05-02 02:51:19 PM  

nocturnal001: Does using a dollar sign in place of the S in microsoft drive anyone else nuts? It's just stupid because yeah, they are just about the money, just like every other company. For me it ranks right up there with calling the Democratic Party "The Democrat Party".


I'm a Linux Guy. Hell, I'm a UNIX System Administrator.

And I could not agree with you more.
 
2014-05-02 02:52:37 PM  

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: This failure clearly illustrates that closed-source software isn't a viable model.


How long was the memory bug in OpenSSL around for the HeartBleed bug?

How long has the stack overflow bug in the TCP packet reassembly buffer of FreeBSD been around?

There is a benefit to open source in that if a bug is discovered and you have the resources, you can fix it yourself.  There is also the benefit that if you have the resources, you can audit the code yourself.  But for most people and organizations, those resources are not available.  So is there really a real life benefit?
 
2014-05-02 02:52:59 PM  

TNel: CeroX: Naturally, this is all Microsoft's fault. Not the bloated corporate versions of antivirus, encryption, start up scripts, group policy updates, security patches, inventory auditing, security monitoring and software distribution suites that also start up when they log into the machine... no... It's Windows...

LOL  I get that at my work.  Each year we get really nice computers to replace the old ones and they are quick... then we add in all the network software, anti-virus, etc and they are slow and people complain because their home computer is faster.  No shiat my home PC is faster also but it's not connecting to a bunch of crap in the morning.


Oops forgot to add they are usually the same people that complain about the wifi access and why can't we go to walmart and buy some more routers, they just got one for $50 and it's great, why do you need to spend $500 on an access point?
 
2014-05-02 02:54:36 PM  

AspectRatio: sotua: I know a guy who works at MS who had been going around with a big smug smirk due to all the heartbleed snafu. Time for some payback.

Really? That's his attitude? Not surprising, but still, wow.


He was posting on twitter stuff like "oh, BTW, I would like to remind you that no MS product is affected by heartbleed".
 
2014-05-02 02:54:39 PM  
What an insanely stupid headline.

Shelbyville: Does the end of XP support really matter if I'm using a good antivirus program like Avast and am using a non IE browser like Chrome/Firefox?


It certainly does. An antivirus application only protects against viruses and, even not using IE, there are still dozens of other things running on the system that can be exploited. For example, say the DHCP client on XP is discovered to have a problem whereby an attacker can send a packet of data to it, crash it and take over the process's shell to run other commands. That's not a virus and a/v software won't protect against it. A firewall might, but a firewall is another process that can be exploited.

These problems DO exist and WILL be used by attackers. They will NOT be fixed by Microsoft (well, except when they will be, like this).

Short of completely isolating the PC, you cannot protect it. And the problem becomes that, depending on what else it can see adjacent on the network, you may not care about IT, but it could be used to attack things you might care about. Even the router itself that's core to your network.
 
2014-05-02 02:56:08 PM  

CeroX: "So screw that, I'm going to get a computer that just "works". I'm going to buy a Mac..."

$4,500 later...


$4500? Really? Maybe if you buy the top model Mac Pro plus a huge Thunderbolt display.

I bought a retina macbook pro last year for $2400. That's not small change, and yes it's more expensive than the average Lenovo or whatever, but it is far and away the best computer I've ever used. Super solid, fast, and miles beyond the new windows laptops in use at my office.

This is just one man's opinion, so don't lash out. I'm not a fanatic.
 
2014-05-02 02:56:16 PM  

TNel: TNel: CeroX: Naturally, this is all Microsoft's fault. Not the bloated corporate versions of antivirus, encryption, start up scripts, group policy updates, security patches, inventory auditing, security monitoring and software distribution suites that also start up when they log into the machine... no... It's Windows...

LOL  I get that at my work.  Each year we get really nice computers to replace the old ones and they are quick... then we add in all the network software, anti-virus, etc and they are slow and people complain because their home computer is faster.  No shiat my home PC is faster also but it's not connecting to a bunch of crap in the morning.

Oops forgot to add they are usually the same people that complain about the wifi access and why can't we go to walmart and buy some more routers, they just got one for $50 and it's great, why do you need to spend $500 on an access point?


god, don't even get me started down that road. That's not enough weekend/alcohol to make up for it.
 
2014-05-02 02:57:44 PM  

Dinjiin: Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: This failure clearly illustrates that closed-source software isn't a viable model.

How long was the memory bug in OpenSSL around for the HeartBleed bug?

How long has the stack overflow bug in the TCP packet reassembly buffer of FreeBSD been around?

There is a benefit to open source in that if a bug is discovered and you have the resources, you can fix it yourself.  There is also the benefit that if you have the resources, you can audit the code yourself.  But for most people and organizations, those resources are not available.  So is there really a real life benefit?


$0 licensing is a real and tangible benefit available to all.
 
2014-05-02 02:58:03 PM  

skozlaw: you may not care about IT, but it could be used to attack things you might care about. Even the router itself that's core to your network.


img.fark.net
 
2014-05-02 02:59:15 PM  

nocturnal001: Does using a dollar sign in place of the S in microsoft drive anyone else nuts? It's just stupid because yeah, they are just about the money, just like every other company. For me it ranks right up there with calling the Democratic Party "The Democrat Party".


I'd say that it ranks up there with the use of "libtard" and "repubtard".  It shows an outward bias.  It isn't just annoying - it also suggests that the person's favoritism might make polite debate improbable, if not impossible, and that their arguments may be exaggerated or even fictional.

In short, talking to a fanboi is usually a waste of time.  I usually flag them, if not outright add them to the ignore list.
 
2014-05-02 03:01:03 PM  

CeroX: The hate for MS is easy to identify and understand:

People go to their job, boot up their computer and it takes forever, then once they get on, it might take another 20 minutes before the computer runs properly. Then about once a week, maybe, if they are luck, once a month, there is some sort of update and the computer doesn't act right. Inevitably they either have to call the helpdesk or they get some sort of email announcing a company wide problem. Then a fix is pushed out and they are then told to reboot their computers. 30 minutes later, they are working again.
Then they try to get into that excel file and run a report that they do every week but for some reason, there is a ton of data missing or they receive several macro errors. Again they turn to IT, and it turns out a SQL server is messed up and not feeding data into their workbook correctly. So they can't run that report that is due in 30 minutes (which of course they knew needed to be ran all week), and Excel is broke. 45 minutes later they get an email and the SQL server is back up, but now they only show data from 2 weeks ago and all of last weeks information is just gone... Turns out, co-worker Jenny accidentally overwrote the file on Friday of last week, and no, there is no back up of the file from where you worked on it on Friday AM until Jenny screwed it up in the PM... another 2 hours later and FINALLY all that work is done, the boss is frustrated, but nothing could have been done, and screw it, it's 4:30, time to go home.
That is until the next screw up...

Naturally, this is all Microsoft's fault. Not the bloated corporate versions of antivirus, encryption, start up scripts, group policy updates, security patches, inventory auditing, security monitoring and software distribution suites that also start up when they log into the machine... no... It's Windows...

"So screw that, I'm going to get a computer that just "works". I'm going to buy a Mac..."

$4,500 later...

It works, JUST like they thoug ...


Or get an IT department that knows what the fark its doing and uses modern equipment. Just sayin' I have a 750-1000 user environment 53 servers and a staff of 4 guys and we handle a Dynamics2012 ERP cluster on top of the normal stuff our workstations boot in 3 sec ready to work. You have to limit the end users abilities to install anything and test all patches before you let them auto install. Don't blame MS because your IT guys are too lazy or too limited in their budget to do their jobs efficiently.
Auditing/backups/patches etc should be done after hours and no weekends and shouldn't effect users performance in the least. Invest in your IT infrastructure and your department and they will invest in your continued success.
 
2014-05-02 03:02:58 PM  

nocturnal001: Does using a dollar sign in place of the S in microsoft drive anyone else nuts? It's just stupid because yeah, they are just about the money, just like every other company. For me it ranks right up there with calling the Democratic Party "The Democrat Party".


It's super, super childish and annoying.

Shelbyville: Does the end of XP support really matter if I'm using a good antivirus program like Avast and am using a non IE browser like Chrome/Firefox?

Still use XP for my entertainment center desktop computer. See no reason to upgrade it if its main usage is living room internet browsing, streaming video, and some older Steam games.


Like others have said, if it's on a network it's going to be vulnerable. If it were just going to be streaming media locally and no browsing, I'd say from a practical standpoint you're be fine. However if you are browsing frequently and connecting to services outside of your network, I would avoid leaving XP on it. If you can grab a cheap copy of OEM Windows 7 or 8 and upgrade, I'd recommend it. You can also go the Linux route if you want but that might be more trouble than it's worth.
 
2014-05-02 03:04:49 PM  

Netrngr: Or get an IT department that knows what the fark its doing and uses modern equipment. Just sayin' I have a 750-1000 user environment 53 servers and a staff of 4 guys and we handle a Dynamics2012 ERP cluster on top of the normal stuff our workstations boot in 3 sec ready to work. You have to limit the end users abilities to install anything and test all patches before you let them auto install. Don't blame MS because your IT guys are too lazy or too limited in their budget to do their jobs efficiently.Auditing/backups/patches etc should be done after hours and no weekends and shouldn't effect users performance in the least. Invest in your IT infrastructure and your department and they will invest in your continued success.


BS you can't even POST in 3 seconds.  You couldn't get an AD/LDAP lookup in 3 seconds.  God forbid you have Novel and Zenworks.  God I hate Zenworks, such a steaming pile of shiat.
 
2014-05-02 03:06:26 PM  

sotua: AspectRatio: sotua: I know a guy who works at MS who had been going around with a big smug smirk due to all the heartbleed snafu. Time for some payback.

Really? That's his attitude? Not surprising, but still, wow.

He was posting on twitter stuff like "oh, BTW, I would like to remind you that no MS product is affected by heartbleed".


There's nothing creepier than an overly-proud lifer at a big tech company. It's not just MS.
 
2014-05-02 03:06:30 PM  

redmid17: You can also go the Linux route if you want but that might be more trouble than it's worth.


Not if it's just a media computer.
 
2014-05-02 03:06:31 PM  

CeroX: The hate for MS is easy to identify and understand:

People go to their job, boot up their computer and it takes forever, then once they get on, it might take another 20 minutes before the computer runs properly. Then about once a week, maybe, if they are luck, once a month, there is some sort of update and the computer doesn't act right. Inevitably they either have to call the helpdesk or they get some sort of email announcing a company wide problem. Then a fix is pushed out and they are then told to reboot their computers. 30 minutes later, they are working again.
Then they try to get into that excel file and run a report that they do every week but for some reason, there is a ton of data missing or they receive several macro errors. Again they turn to IT, and it turns out a SQL server is messed up and not feeding data into their workbook correctly. So they can't run that report that is due in 30 minutes (which of course they knew needed to be ran all week), and Excel is broke. 45 minutes later they get an email and the SQL server is back up, but now they only show data from 2 weeks ago and all of last weeks information is just gone... Turns out, co-worker Jenny accidentally overwrote the file on Friday of last week, and no, there is no back up of the file from where you worked on it on Friday AM until Jenny screwed it up in the PM... another 2 hours later and FINALLY all that work is done, the boss is frustrated, but nothing could have been done, and screw it, it's 4:30, time to go home.
That is until the next screw up...

Naturally, this is all Microsoft's fault. Not the bloated corporate versions of antivirus, encryption, start up scripts, group policy updates, security patches, inventory auditing, security monitoring and software distribution suites that also start up when they log into the machine... no... It's Windows...

"So screw that, I'm going to get a computer that just "works". I'm going to buy a Mac..."

$4,500 later...

It works, JUST like they thoug ...


I live just down the street from this place, and drive past it every day on my way to work.

www.americanprogressaction.org

They are a *huge* employer in Wichita, they donate generously to many local causes, have built buildings on Wichita State's campus and invest heavily in the town, as any responsible wealthy local business frankly should.

Does that mitigate the horrible crap the owners generate with their huge piles of cash? Does it excuse the fact that they buy elections across America just to satisfy their Randian fantasies?

Microsoft has, on balance, more than adequate products and a huge market share. Some of us have been around long enough to remember the people and companies they screwed to get there - so Bill and Melinda could throw chunks of money at their pet causes in their retirement.

\I use their software and operating systems
\\but I get them with the computers I buy or "acquire" - I don't intentionally pay for it
\\\If corporations are indeed "people", this one is an Asshole
 
2014-05-02 03:07:12 PM  

Dinjiin: Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: This failure clearly illustrates that closed-source software isn't a viable model.

How long was the memory bug in OpenSSL around for the HeartBleed bug?

How long has the stack overflow bug in the TCP packet reassembly buffer of FreeBSD been around?

There is a benefit to open source in that if a bug is discovered and you have the resources, you can fix it yourself.  There is also the benefit that if you have the resources, you can audit the code yourself.  But for most people and organizations, those resources are not available.  So is there really a real life benefit?


IE 6 => Released August 2001 // patched April 2014

Open SSL (Heartbleed) => Released March 14, 2012 // patched March 2014

Open BSD 4.0 => Released Nov 1, 2006 // patched October 2007
 
2014-05-02 03:08:44 PM  

TNel: redmid17: You can also go the Linux route if you want but that might be more trouble than it's worth.

Not if it's just a media computer.


To someone who's asking if they should upgrade their Win XP computer? Um yeah it might be. The fact that the Steam games aren't Linux compatible is another thing to consider.
 
2014-05-02 03:09:05 PM  
Onion article? Geez. Everyone knows Windows sucks. So do macs. That's life. Try a flavor of Linux & STFU.

/Firefox 29 is tuned, much less of a hog. 25 tabs open @ 350mb.
 
2014-05-02 03:10:03 PM  

redmid17: TNel: redmid17: You can also go the Linux route if you want but that might be more trouble than it's worth.

Not if it's just a media computer.

To someone who's asking if they should upgrade their Win XP computer? Um yeah it might be. The fact that the Steam games aren't Linux compatible is another thing to consider.


Not entirely true. Steam's Linux library expands all the time, and Wine can run stuff that hasn't made the cut just yet nicely.
 
2014-05-02 03:10:28 PM  

sotua: $0 licensing is a real and tangible benefit available to all.


Which is just one part of the total cost of ownership for a product.  For many companies and organizations, the real costs may come from support, training and reliability.

There is a reason why a number of companies have become very rich providing consulting and support services for Linux and BSD.  Companies and organizations may be bound by terms and service agreements that require a higher level of service and support than can be obtained by the original authors, or even third party services.

So I'd say that you're partially right - it is a potential benefit for all.
 
2014-05-02 03:11:00 PM  

CeroX: The hate for MS is easy to identify and understand:

People go to their job, boot up their computer and it takes forever, then once they get on, it might take another 20 minutes before the computer runs properly. Then about once a week, maybe, if they are luck, once a month, there is some sort of update and the computer doesn't act right. Inevitably they either have to call the helpdesk or they get some sort of email announcing a company wide problem. Then a fix is pushed out and they are then told to reboot their computers. 30 minutes later, they are working again.
Then they try to get into that excel file and run a report that they do every week but for some reason, there is a ton of data missing or they receive several macro errors. Again they turn to IT, and it turns out a SQL server is messed up and not feeding data into their workbook correctly. So they can't run that report that is due in 30 minutes (which of course they knew needed to be ran all week), and Excel is broke. 45 minutes later they get an email and the SQL server is back up, but now they only show data from 2 weeks ago and all of last weeks information is just gone... Turns out, co-worker Jenny accidentally overwrote the file on Friday of last week, and no, there is no back up of the file from where you worked on it on Friday AM until Jenny screwed it up in the PM... another 2 hours later and FINALLY all that work is done, the boss is frustrated, but nothing could have been done, and screw it, it's 4:30, time to go home.
That is until the next screw up...

Naturally, this is all Microsoft's fault. Not the bloated corporate versions of antivirus, encryption, start up scripts, group policy updates, security patches, inventory auditing, security monitoring and software distribution suites that also start up when they log into the machine... no... It's Windows...

"So screw that, I'm going to get a computer that just "works". I'm going to buy a Mac..."

$4,500 later...

It works, JUST like they thoug ...


Have we worked together at some point in time? I swear these days happen to me.
 
2014-05-02 03:13:29 PM  
slackbook.org
 
2014-05-02 03:13:44 PM  
Good thing MS welded IE to Windows all those years ago to kill Netscape.
 
2014-05-02 03:14:27 PM  

Netrngr: Or get an IT department that knows what the fark its doing and uses modern equipment. Just sayin' I have a 750-1000 user environment 53 servers and a staff of 4 guys and we handle a Dynamics2012 ERP cluster on top of the normal stuff our workstations boot in 3 sec ready to work. You have to limit the end users abilities to install anything and test all patches before you let them auto install. Don't blame MS because your IT guys are too lazy or too limited in their budget to do their jobs efficiently.
Auditing/backups/patches etc should be done after hours and no weekends and shouldn't effect users performance in the least. Invest in your IT infrastructure and your department and they will invest in your continued success.


6/10

I've heard this type of IT Trolling before, nicely done with the air of superiority but if you're "booting" in 3 seconds, you're not really booting. That's called "waking up".
 
2014-05-02 03:14:51 PM  

AngryPanda: redmid17: TNel: redmid17: You can also go the Linux route if you want but that might be more trouble than it's worth.

Not if it's just a media computer.

To someone who's asking if they should upgrade their Win XP computer? Um yeah it might be. The fact that the Steam games aren't Linux compatible is another thing to consider.

Not entirely true. Steam's Linux library expands all the time, and Wine can run stuff that hasn't made the cut just yet nicely.


Once again, look at the question. Steam's Linux library is tiny compared to the PC version, and configuring WINE to run games is often a total PITA (and something I've needed to do multiple times when dependencies upgraded).

Someone asking if their Win XP computer is safe from exploits probably isn't going to want to go through all those issues. For someone like you or myself, yeah it might be worth it.
 
2014-05-02 03:15:49 PM  

TNel: BS you can't even POST in 3 seconds.  You couldn't get an AD/LDAP lookup in 3 seconds.  God forbid you have Novel and Zenworks.  God I hate Zenworks, such a steaming pile of shiat.


Good News! We've finally gotten rid of our last Novell crap!
 
2014-05-02 03:17:20 PM  
lordargent:
IE 6 => Released August 2001 // patched April 2014
Open SSL (Heartbleed) => Released March 14, 2012 // patched March 2014


 - date of Microsoft exploit being discovered, April 2014
 - date of OpenSSL exploit being discovered, March 14, 2012
 
2014-05-02 03:19:39 PM  

letrole: lordargent:
IE 6 => Released August 2001 // patched April 2014
Open SSL (Heartbleed) => Released March 14, 2012 // patched March 2014

 - date of Microsoft exploit being discovered, April 2014
 - date of OpenSSL exploit being discovered, March 14, 2012


Date of Microsoft exploit being....exploited, August 2001

/muddying the waters is a nice tactic.
 
2014-05-02 03:20:15 PM  

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: skozlaw: you may not care about IT, but it could be used to attack things you might care about. Even the router itself that's core to your network.

[img.fark.net image 600x381]


That is CLEARLY an HP desktop. Those don't get viruses.


TNel: redmid17: You can also go the Linux route if you want but that might be more trouble than it's worth.

Not if it's just a media computer.


My media server at home is running Plex. So yes, even if it's a media computer Linux is a viable option.
 
2014-05-02 03:21:17 PM  

olapbill: god, don't even get me started down that road. That's not enough weekend/alcohol to make up for it.


"I don't understand why I can't have more space. My home computer has a 1000 GB hard drive and you won't even give me 30 for email!"

Yea? Well, fark me. Why didn't I think of that. I'll just run down to Best Buy and grab a few 1TB desktop hard drives, slap 'em right in the SAN enclosure right there. One for each person just so you can save whatever half-cocked horseshiat comes into your inbox with out ever deleting anything!

To be honest, though, that attitude aggravates me a lot less than people who come to me with a question then respond with disbelief when I give them an answer and insist I must be wrong.

Really, asshole? Then maybe go try YOUR brilliant idea instead? Oh, right, you don't have one, that's why you're asking ME.
 
2014-05-02 03:21:26 PM  

AspectRatio: laptops in use at my office.


I get it, i do... and i'm not lashing out, believe me... I completely understand... what you guys fail to realize is this though, corporate computers have quite literally all that software i listed in my original post... best analogy can give you is, when you access or write a byte of data on your company laptop, that byte then becomes the victim of a data tug of war between the antivirus and encryption software. They both attempt to access that byte at the same time and it goes through a "mother may I" game before it will come to you, or go to your hard drive. Multiply that by the 1000's of bytes per actual block of information, and then multiply that by however many programs you are running, and yeah, the work computers are going to be slower than a Mac, or even just your home PC if you use one.

So yes, I get it, and at this point have come to accept it...

What bothers me is when people use $$$ to indicate that somehow MS is more money hungry than Apple, when Apple's entire pricing scheme is based on exploiting the frustration people generally feel with their work computers and are willing to pay triple for a system that doesn't come with the emotional baggage that their work computers do...

And the whole excuse about safety and viruses is ONLY because Apple is not the standard for business computing. If it was, the virus architects and hackers out there would spend all their time exploiting iOS instead of Windows...
 
2014-05-02 03:21:29 PM  

What_do_you_want_now: I've heard this type of IT Trolling before, nicely done with the air of superiority but if you're "booting" in 3 seconds, you're not really booting. That's called "waking up".


Sounds slow. I have boot button on my monitor that starts the computer in one second.
 
2014-05-02 03:23:31 PM  

CeroX: The hate for MS is easy to identify and understand:

People go to their job, boot up their computer and it takes forever, then once they get on, it might take another 20 minutes before the computer runs properly. Then about once a week, maybe, if they are luck, once a month, there is some sort of update and the computer doesn't act right. Inevitably they either have to call the helpdesk or they get some sort of email announcing a company wide problem. Then a fix is pushed out and they are then told to reboot their computers. 30 minutes later, they are working again.
Then they try to get into that excel file and run a report that they do every week but for some reason, there is a ton of data missing or they receive several macro errors. Again they turn to IT, and it turns out a SQL server is messed up and not feeding data into their workbook correctly. So they can't run that report that is due in 30 minutes (which of course they knew needed to be ran all week), and Excel is broke. 45 minutes later they get an email and the SQL server is back up, but now they only show data from 2 weeks ago and all of last weeks information is just gone... Turns out, co-worker Jenny accidentally overwrote the file on Friday of last week, and no, there is no back up of the file from where you worked on it on Friday AM until Jenny screwed it up in the PM... another 2 hours later and FINALLY all that work is done, the boss is frustrated, but nothing could have been done, and screw it, it's 4:30, time to go home.
That is until the next screw up...

Naturally, this is all Microsoft's fault. Not the bloated corporate versions of antivirus, encryption, start up scripts, group policy updates, security patches, inventory auditing, security monitoring and software distribution suites that also start up when they log into the machine... no... It's Windows...

"So screw that, I'm going to get a computer that just "works". I'm going to buy a Mac..."

$4,500 later...


Apple still selling the Lisa?

Of course if the wanted a cheaper Mac, the could get the Mini for $600 or the iMac for $1300
 
2014-05-02 03:23:59 PM  
subby is most likey an apple fanatic like all the other hipsters who don't realize that apple is now bigger$$$ than microsoft.

/part of the problem, not solution
 
2014-05-02 03:24:39 PM  
I work in an environment where there's still 600+ XP workstations in production (even after two years of us begging them to update their computers), so I'm getting a kick out of these replies etc.

/I just shake my head
//they're gonna get raped hacked
///somehow it'll be our fault... it's always IT's fault. :\
 
2014-05-02 03:26:01 PM  

Netrngr: Or get an IT department that knows what the fark its doing


You know, like posting on Fark all day instead of working.
 
2014-05-02 03:27:51 PM  

What_do_you_want_now: letrole: lordargent:
IE 6 => Released August 2001 // patched April 2014
Open SSL (Heartbleed) => Released March 14, 2012 // patched March 2014

 - date of Microsoft exploit being discovered, April 2014
 - date of OpenSSL exploit being discovered, March 14, 2012

Date of Microsoft exploit being....exploited, August 2001

/muddying the waters is a nice tactic.


wut?
 
2014-05-02 03:28:05 PM  

letrole: What_do_you_want_now: I've heard this type of IT Trolling before, nicely done with the air of superiority but if you're "booting" in 3 seconds, you're not really booting. That's called "waking up".

Sounds slow. I have boot button on my monitor that starts the computer in one second.


Sweet! Then you really shouldn't need all those extra cords behind the hard drive box. They just take up valuable bites and clog your personal internet's tube.
 
2014-05-02 03:28:58 PM  
And fark you linux promoters...

It's never going to happen...

Get over it...


I have a linux media server at my house, and actually getting that shiat up and going the exact way i needed it to involved editing samba config files... Last time i had to manually edit a config file was with Win98's autoexec.bat and config.sys files...
 
2014-05-02 03:29:09 PM  

olapbill: What_do_you_want_now: letrole: lordargent:
IE 6 => Released August 2001 // patched April 2014
Open SSL (Heartbleed) => Released March 14, 2012 // patched March 2014

 - date of Microsoft exploit being discovered, April 2014
 - date of OpenSSL exploit being discovered, March 14, 2012

Date of Microsoft exploit being....exploited, August 2001

/muddying the waters is a nice tactic.

wut?


Sarcastic answer. I was being coy in saying "If you are using IE6 You probably deserve it. Update your goddamn programs."
 
2014-05-02 03:31:32 PM  

TNel: TNel: CeroX: Naturally, this is all Microsoft's fault. Not the bloated corporate versions of antivirus, encryption, start up scripts, group policy updates, security patches, inventory auditing, security monitoring and software distribution suites that also start up when they log into the machine... no... It's Windows...

LOL  I get that at my work.  Each year we get really nice computers to replace the old ones and they are quick... then we add in all the network software, anti-virus, etc and they are slow and people complain because their home computer is faster.  No shiat my home PC is faster also but it's not connecting to a bunch of crap in the morning.

Oops forgot to add they are usually the same people that complain about the wifi access and why can't we go to walmart and buy some more routers, they just got one for $50 and it's great, why do you need to spend $500 on an access point?


Do we work at the same place?

"No, you can't setup this router you got a great deal on because we specifically limit access due to federally mandated HIPAA guidelines. I know it's a bummer you can't use your cell phone on the wifi because it's weak in this part of the building and you don't want to pay network telecom services $3000 to put a new one in, but that's how it is.
 
2014-05-02 03:31:47 PM  
letrole:
- date of Microsoft exploit being discovered, April 2014
- date of OpenSSL exploit being discovered, March 14, 2012



What_do_you_want_now:
- Date of Microsoft exploit being....exploited, August 2001

Is this the thread where the security model of ten year old windows gets compared to the current release of a fanboy operating system? By the way, I speak Linux, albeit with lots of mumbling. If you have a single server application like www or radius or mail, perhaps not mail (shrug), then Linux wins because it works and it's free.
 
2014-05-02 03:31:59 PM  

Dinjiin: sotua: $0 licensing is a real and tangible benefit available to all.

Which is just one part of the total cost of ownership for a product.  For many companies and organizations, the real costs may come from support, training and reliability.

There is a reason why a number of companies have become very rich providing consulting and support services for Linux and BSD.  Companies and organizations may be bound by terms and service agreements that require a higher level of service and support than can be obtained by the original authors, or even third party services.

So I'd say that you're partially right - it is a potential benefit for all.


Have you ever worked in IT, at a big company, with MS products? They cost much more to maintain than Unix/Linux. I've worked in both corporate environments and almost always the Unix/Linux side comes out cheaper for support, uptime, and reliability. If it wasn't that way then maybe those companies needed better qualified IT departments and support providers.
 
2014-05-02 03:32:51 PM  

letrole: What_do_you_want_now: I've heard this type of IT Trolling before, nicely done with the air of superiority but if you're "booting" in 3 seconds, you're not really booting. That's called "waking up".

Sounds slow. I have boot button on my monitor that starts the computer in one second.


I know right? Do you have that awesome automatic cup holder on your cpu as well?
 
2014-05-02 03:34:39 PM  

CeroX: AspectRatio: laptops in use at my office.

I get it, i do... and i'm not lashing out, believe me... I completely understand... what you guys fail to realize is this though, corporate computers have quite literally all that software i listed in my original post... best analogy can give you is, when you access or write a byte of data on your company laptop, that byte then becomes the victim of a data tug of war between the antivirus and encryption software. They both attempt to access that byte at the same time and it goes through a "mother may I" game before it will come to you, or go to your hard drive. Multiply that by the 1000's of bytes per actual block of information, and then multiply that by however many programs you are running, and yeah, the work computers are going to be slower than a Mac, or even just your home PC if you use one.

So yes, I get it, and at this point have come to accept it...

What bothers me is when people use $$$ to indicate that somehow MS is more money hungry than Apple, when Apple's entire pricing scheme is based on exploiting the frustration people generally feel with their work computers and are willing to pay triple for a system that doesn't come with the emotional baggage that their work computers do...

And the whole excuse about safety and viruses is ONLY because Apple is not the standard for business computing. If it was, the virus architects and hackers out there would spend all their time exploiting iOS instead of Windows...


Nope. Apple's a BSD distribution. It's a POSIX- compliant OS, which makes it virtually impossible to write a virus for. I don't mean "security through obscurity", I mean the way the system's set up.

The greatest benefit that a -nix system offers is in the concept of privilege. The systems are just more secure, because of what an average user is not allowed to do. More importantly, what a program's allowed to do. If you get a piece of malware on a Windows machine, it's going to have an infinitely simpler time modifying things at the kernel level than it would on a -nix box.

To grossly oversimplify things, think about how Heartbleed works- it's receiving more information than it should, but it's not receiving information from a deeper layer of the system than SSL is normally allowed to access. It's horizontal, but not vertical.
 
2014-05-02 03:35:21 PM  

ReverendJynxed: [slackbook.org image 640x400]


But links (elinks actually) can be compiled with both gpm (mouse) and libjpeg support, so you can actually use a mouse and see images.  Did this when I installed gentoo - no need to wait 3 days for X and gnome to compile, start wtih elinks so you can at least surf your porn while your desktop environment compiles.
 
2014-05-02 03:36:31 PM  

CeroX: "So screw that, I'm going to get a computer that just "works". I'm going to buy a Mac..."

$4,500 later...


1990 called. It wants its MSRPs back. Then again, the rest of your straw man is equally inaccurate, so I suppose it is not surprising that you pulled this part out of your ass as well.
 
2014-05-02 03:38:36 PM  

MightyPez: TNel: TNel: CeroX: Naturally, this is all Microsoft's fault. Not the bloated corporate versions of antivirus, encryption, start up scripts, group policy updates, security patches, inventory auditing, security monitoring and software distribution suites that also start up when they log into the machine... no... It's Windows...

LOL  I get that at my work.  Each year we get really nice computers to replace the old ones and they are quick... then we add in all the network software, anti-virus, etc and they are slow and people complain because their home computer is faster.  No shiat my home PC is faster also but it's not connecting to a bunch of crap in the morning.

Oops forgot to add they are usually the same people that complain about the wifi access and why can't we go to walmart and buy some more routers, they just got one for $50 and it's great, why do you need to spend $500 on an access point?

Do we work at the same place?

"No, you can't setup this router you got a great deal on because we specifically limit access due to federally mandated HIPAA guidelines. I know it's a bummer you can't use your cell phone on the wifi because it's weak in this part of the building and you don't want to pay network telecom services $3000 to put a new one in, but that's how it is.


I used to work at a HIPAA controlled place...

"But why can't *I* have access to Drop Box? I'm the personal assistant to Mr. VP of marketing and since you won't let me send this 258MB Power Point with embedded video to these external people through Outlook, they need SOME way of seeing this presentation! When Mr. VP of Marketing hears that his clients can't see this presentation I worked 3 weeks on, he's going to call someone important!"
 
2014-05-02 03:42:26 PM  

TNel: redmid17: You can also go the Linux route if you want but that might be more trouble than it's worth.

Not if it's just a media computer.


Sure you can. You can use MythTV or XBMC. To just serve media you can use: PS3 Media Server, MediaTomb, uShare, and more. Just depends on what you want. There are even LiveCD media center distributions so you can run them on the fly or for testing.
 
2014-05-02 03:42:34 PM  

What_do_you_want_now: Netrngr: Or get an IT department that knows what the fark its doing and uses modern equipment. Just sayin' I have a 750-1000 user environment 53 servers and a staff of 4 guys and we handle a Dynamics2012 ERP cluster on top of the normal stuff our workstations boot in 3 sec ready to work. You have to limit the end users abilities to install anything and test all patches before you let them auto install. Don't blame MS because your IT guys are too lazy or too limited in their budget to do their jobs efficiently.
Auditing/backups/patches etc should be done after hours and no weekends and shouldn't effect users performance in the least. Invest in your IT infrastructure and your department and they will invest in your continued success.

6/10

I've heard this type of IT Trolling before, nicely done with the air of superiority but if you're "booting" in 3 seconds, you're not really booting. That's called "waking up".



My new Dell M3800 boots in 8 seconds.  SSD's are great.

Also I find the nerd hate for Win8 is pretty undeserved and often ill informed.
 
2014-05-02 03:42:44 PM  

CeroX: MightyPez: TNel: TNel: CeroX: Naturally, this is all Microsoft's fault. Not the bloated corporate versions of antivirus, encryption, start up scripts, group policy updates, security patches, inventory auditing, security monitoring and software distribution suites that also start up when they log into the machine... no... It's Windows...

LOL  I get that at my work.  Each year we get really nice computers to replace the old ones and they are quick... then we add in all the network software, anti-virus, etc and they are slow and people complain because their home computer is faster.  No shiat my home PC is faster also but it's not connecting to a bunch of crap in the morning.

Oops forgot to add they are usually the same people that complain about the wifi access and why can't we go to walmart and buy some more routers, they just got one for $50 and it's great, why do you need to spend $500 on an access point?

Do we work at the same place?

"No, you can't setup this router you got a great deal on because we specifically limit access due to federally mandated HIPAA guidelines. I know it's a bummer you can't use your cell phone on the wifi because it's weak in this part of the building and you don't want to pay network telecom services $3000 to put a new one in, but that's how it is.

I used to work at a HIPAA controlled place...

"But why can't *I* have access to Drop Box? I'm the personal assistant to Mr. VP of marketing and since you won't let me send this 258MB Power Point with embedded video to these external people through Outlook, they need SOME way of seeing this presentation! When Mr. VP of Marketing hears that his clients can't see this presentation I worked 3 weeks on, he's going to call someone important!"


I'm fortunate in that regard because usually when I drop "HIPAA" as a reason we can't do something the person clams up. Tough there is the ever-present "Well *I* don't have any HIPAA data!" Maybe not. But you have access to the network and shared network drives that  contain confidential patient data. And I, as low man on the totem poll, don't get to arbitrarily decide when the rules can be bent because you like yahoo mail better than the company provided email.
 
2014-05-02 03:46:16 PM  

letrole: lordargent:
IE 6 => Released August 2001 // patched April 2014
Open SSL (Heartbleed) => Released March 14, 2012 // patched March 2014

 - date of Microsoft exploit being discovered, April 2014
 - date of OpenSSL exploit being discovered, March 14, 2012


According to Wikipedia, March 14th is the date the compromised code was released into the wild. It wasn't discovered until April 2014 and was patched shortly after that (since it was such a simple coding error).

"Henson apparently failed to notice a bug in Seggelmann's implementation,[22] and introduced the flawed code into OpenSSL's source code repository on December 31, 2011. The vulnerable code was adopted into widespread use with the release of OpenSSL version 1.0.1 on March 14, 2012. Heartbeat support was enabled by default, causing affected versions to be vulnerable by default.[23][24][25]
Discovery

According to Mark J. Cox of OpenSSL, Neel Mehta of Google's security team reported Heartbleed on April 1, 2014. "
 
2014-05-02 03:47:21 PM  

i.r.id10t: ReverendJynxed: [slackbook.org image 640x400]

But links (elinks actually) can be compiled with both gpm (mouse) and libjpeg support, so you can actually use a mouse and see images.  Did this when I installed gentoo - no need to wait 3 days for X and gnome to compile, start wtih elinks so you can at least surf your porn while your desktop environment compiles.


I finally got around to doing a gentoo install a few months ago. I wanted that particular skin on the wall as much as anything.

It was fun, as command line stuff goes. It was definitely a learning experience, on a variety of levels.

And I will never, ever do it again.
 
2014-05-02 03:47:37 PM  

CheatCommando: CeroX: "So screw that, I'm going to get a computer that just "works". I'm going to buy a Mac..."

$4,500 later...

1990 called. It wants its MSRPs back. Then again, the rest of your straw man is equally inaccurate, so I suppose it is not surprising that you pulled this part out of your ass as well.


So, the biatch most people have about the argument is that my price point on Apple is inaccurate? Really?

So had I put $1300, THAT would have been ok?

And no... The rest of it is not a "strawman". It's 14 years first hand experience. It's dealing with this EXACT issue with quite literally thousands of people. How many war stories you want? Cause I got 'em. Every cliched tech issue you could run into, every end-user who thinks telling me "i'm just not a computer person" is somehow an excuse not to learn the difference between a right-click and a left-click.

Bitter? Yes I am... But it's what I'm good at, and have earned a position that gets me off the front lines and back at the fort where I have full command over everything...
 
2014-05-02 03:49:06 PM  

What_do_you_want_now: Sarcastic answer. I was being coy in saying "If you are using IE6 You probably deserve it. Update your goddamn programs."


Why yes, I'm using IE6 right now. This is because I bought retail Windows 2000 back in 1999 for £129 and I just shift it to newer hardware every other year. I can't update anything -- half the stuff out there won't even run on 2000.

I have Opera in reserve for sites that simply won't load with IE6, but that version (9) isn't available through the Opera download any more. I have a huge collection of obsolete crap that I've kept for the bi-annual migration.

And why stay with 2000? If you manage to run a program, it's fast as fark. Also, I always thought XP was a candy-assed piece of bloatware made mainly for easily impressed goons who liked horse-power robbing rounded corners on all their damn windows and dialogues.

I used NT4 for five years before that, and only switched to 2000 because NT4 doesn't do USB native and they quit selling parallel port scanners.
 
2014-05-02 03:51:23 PM  

CeroX: I know right? Do you have that awesome automatic cup holder on your cpu as well?


That's not a cupholder -- it's a cd player.
 
2014-05-02 03:51:57 PM  

letrole: Is this the thread where the security model of ten year old windows gets compared to the current release of a fanboy operating system? By the way, I speak Linux, albeit with lots of mumbling. If you have a single server application like www or radius or mail, perhaps not mail (shrug), then Linux wins because it works and it's free.


You're not even good at trolling geek threads, I mean it's all just motions and no gusto or drive behind it. Maybe it's because I know IT more than you know how to troll.

Please, I beg of you, try harder in trolling.
 
2014-05-02 03:52:04 PM  

AngryPanda: redmid17: TNel: redmid17: You can also go the Linux route if you want but that might be more trouble than it's worth.

Not if it's just a media computer.

To someone who's asking if they should upgrade their Win XP computer? Um yeah it might be. The fact that the Steam games aren't Linux compatible is another thing to consider.

Not entirely true. Steam's Linux library expands all the time, and Wine can run stuff that hasn't made the cut just yet nicely.


The vast majority of PC titles on Steam have no Linux version.  (Wine doesn't count.)
 
2014-05-02 03:52:47 PM  

TheDirtyNacho: Also I find the nerd hate for Win8 is pretty undeserved and often ill informed.


For the experienced window's user, I usually tell them "Shell out the $5 and get StartIsBack". When they do they usually make a special effort to thank me.

/yes i'm aware there are free versions out there, but the $5 one works flawlessly. I've run into issue with the free ones to the point that for consistency purpose i promote startisback...
 
2014-05-02 03:53:15 PM  

letrole: letrole:
- date of Microsoft exploit being discovered, April 2014
- date of OpenSSL exploit being discovered, March 14, 2012


What_do_you_want_now:
- Date of Microsoft exploit being....exploited, August 2001

Is this the thread where the security model of ten year old windows gets compared to the current release of a fanboy operating system?


This bug affects IE 11 as well, which was released in 2013 for windows 7 and 8.
 
2014-05-02 03:54:35 PM  

letrole: What_do_you_want_now: Sarcastic answer. I was being coy in saying "If you are using IE6 You probably deserve it. Update your goddamn programs."

Why yes, I'm using IE6 right now. This is because I bought retail Windows 2000 back in 1999 for £129 and I just shift it to newer hardware every other year. I can't update anything -- half the stuff out there won't even run on 2000.

I have Opera in reserve for sites that simply won't load with IE6, but that version (9) isn't available through the Opera download any more. I have a huge collection of obsolete crap that I've kept for the bi-annual migration.

And why stay with 2000? If you manage to run a program, it's fast as fark. Also, I always thought XP was a candy-assed piece of bloatware made mainly for easily impressed goons who liked horse-power robbing rounded corners on all their damn windows and dialogues.

I used NT4 for five years before that, and only switched to 2000 because NT4 doesn't do USB native and they quit selling parallel port scanners.


Really, you're bad at this. Go back to political threads.
 
2014-05-02 03:55:06 PM  

What_do_you_want_now: letrole: Is this the thread where the security model of ten year old windows gets compared to the current release of a fanboy operating system? By the way, I speak Linux, albeit with lots of mumbling. If you have a single server application like www or radius or mail, perhaps not mail (shrug), then Linux wins because it works and it's free.

You're not even good at trolling geek threads, I mean it's all just motions and no gusto or drive behind it. Maybe it's because I know IT more than you know how to troll.

Please, I beg of you, try harder in trolling.


The login even sounds like 'troll', and I normally wouldn't reply (I think I even had him on my ignore list for a bit).

But I'm eating lunch, so responding in between bites.
 
2014-05-02 03:55:18 PM  

letrole: And why stay with 2000? If you manage to run a program, it's fast as fark.


That may be the funniest thing I've read all week.
 
2014-05-02 03:55:30 PM  

CeroX: TheDirtyNacho: Also I find the nerd hate for Win8 is pretty undeserved and often ill informed.

For the experienced window's user, I usually tell them "Shell out the $5 and get StartIsBack". When they do they usually make a special effort to thank me.

/yes i'm aware there are free versions out there, but the $5 one works flawlessly. I've run into issue with the free ones to the point that for consistency purpose i promote startisback...


Classic Shell is free. www.classicshell.net
 
2014-05-02 03:56:55 PM  

lordargent: According to Wikipedia, March 14th is the date the compromised code was released into the wild. It wasn't discovered until April 2014 and was patched shortly after that (since it was such a simple coding error).



March 14th is the date that the exploit was leaked into the general community, and the jig was up, as the young people say.


Yes, it looked like a simple coding error, but with open source, a comment that says


# exploit goes here


tends to raise a few eyebrows
 
2014-05-02 03:57:49 PM  

CeroX: For the experienced window's user, I usually tell them "Shell out the $5 and get StartIsBack". When they do they usually make a special effort to thank me.


More to the point, Classic Shell is the most stable I've ever used for adding the classic functionality back to the Windows 8.1.1 GUI.

Also, Windows 8 is a stallion. When I fired it up and saw it actually work I was amazed. Getting used to the newer interface was just part of the learning curve.
 
2014-05-02 03:58:43 PM  

What_do_you_want_now: Classic Shell is free. www.classicshell.net


I'm aware, but I've run into issues with both it and Start8 once the computer was updated to 8.1... Not always, and not consistently, which is weird... but there have been problems...
 
2014-05-02 03:59:54 PM  

CeroX: TheDirtyNacho: Also I find the nerd hate for Win8 is pretty undeserved and often ill informed.

For the experienced window's user, I usually tell them "Shell out the $5 and get StartIsBack". When they do they usually make a special effort to thank me.

/yes i'm aware there are free versions out there, but the $5 one works flawlessly. I've run into issue with the free ones to the point that for consistency purpose i promote startisback...



I like the metro start screen - theres a good video on youtube on how to get more out of it.  They've been steadily improving it too.

With 8.1 boot to desktop became an option, and with the big update 3 weeks ago became the default for non-mobile.

Other than that, I find it generally works better and faster than Win7.  Even IE is pretty good (present issue notwithstanding) and fast, taking advantage of hardware acceleration.  I do occasional web development and am surprised at how often I have to work around quirks in Firefox and Chrome where IE just works.
 
2014-05-02 04:00:53 PM  

CeroX: I'm aware, but I've run into issues with both it and Start8 once the computer was updated to 8.1... Not always, and not consistently, which is weird... but there have been problems...


Probably a conflict with an installed program. We install it as part of the setup after removing bloatware and before installing anything else.

No, we don't use images. The business keeps buying different models because hey buy the laptops at Best Buy and not direct.
 
2014-05-02 04:01:38 PM  

What_do_you_want_now: CeroX: For the experienced window's user, I usually tell them "Shell out the $5 and get StartIsBack". When they do they usually make a special effort to thank me.

More to the point, Classic Shell is the most stable I've ever used for adding the classic functionality back to the Windows 8.1.1 GUI.

Also, Windows 8 is a stallion. When I fired it up and saw it actually work I was amazed. Getting used to the newer interface was just part of the learning curve.


I'll try it out again, but when 8.1 first came out, I had all kinds of quirky issues with it, so I just went back to the paid one...
 
2014-05-02 04:02:45 PM  

lordargent: This bug affects IE 11 as well, which was released in 2013 for windows 7 and 8.


so it got fixed quicker than heartbleed
 
2014-05-02 04:02:58 PM  

What_do_you_want_now: CeroX: I'm aware, but I've run into issues with both it and Start8 once the computer was updated to 8.1... Not always, and not consistently, which is weird... but there have been problems...

Probably a conflict with an installed program. We install it as part of the setup after removing bloatware and before installing anything else.

No, we don't use images. The business keeps buying different models because hey buy the laptops at Best Buy and not direct.


JESUS... Best Buy? F- That!! I've been purchasing through CDW over a year now and couldn't be happier...
 
2014-05-02 04:07:35 PM  

CeroX: JESUS... Best Buy? F- That!! I've been purchasing through CDW over a year now and couldn't be happier...


We're an IT Management Company, so we're just the IT side of the house for small businesses. How they buy their hardware is up to them, we can buy it for them.

Kicker, this guy also buys Office 2013 licenses with the company card and LINKS THEM TO HIS PERSONAL LIVE.COM ACCOUNT. When this guy gets offloaded (soon, hopefully. He is an ass) he will probably recall all those licenses.

We can only inform, not force. Sometimes you have to let them fall down the stars before they realize you have an elevator.
 
2014-05-02 04:09:00 PM  
Hehe. An old time OS flame war. Ah, I miss the 90s.

*buckles up*

BeOS has the best journaling file system out there. You'll see. It'll beat Microsoft on the desktop. They are working on an Intel version. It'll be better than OS/2 Warp 4 or even Amiga OS.

Linux isn't for the desktop yet. But this new KDE interface is gonna launch it onto the desktop. You'll see.
 
2014-05-02 04:10:12 PM  

AspectRatio: CeroX: "So screw that, I'm going to get a computer that just "works". I'm going to buy a Mac..."

$4,500 later...

$4500? Really? Maybe if you buy the top model Mac Pro plus a huge Thunderbolt display.

I bought a retina macbook pro last year for $2400. That's not small change, and yes it's more expensive than the average Lenovo or whatever, but it is far and away the best computer I've ever used. Super solid, fast, and miles beyond the new windows laptops in use at my office.

This is just one man's opinion, so don't lash out. I'm not a fanatic.


^^THIS.  I am using a Macbook Pro circa 2008.  I upgraded the memory to 8GB and bought a new battery for it, but it still works like a champ.  My wife is on her third low-mid range ($600-800) laptop in that same time frame.
 
2014-05-02 04:13:35 PM  

lordargent: The login even sounds like 'troll', and I normally wouldn't reply (I think I even had him on my ignore list for a bit).


My surname is Le Trôle.
 
2014-05-02 04:15:07 PM  

Nadie_AZ: Hehe. An old time OS flame war. Ah, I miss the 90s.

*buckles up*

BeOS has the best journaling file system out there. You'll see. It'll beat Microsoft on the desktop. They are working on an Intel version. It'll be better than OS/2 Warp 4 or even Amiga OS.

Linux isn't for the desktop yet. But this new KDE interface is gonna launch it onto the desktop. You'll see.


I have Haiku, which is an alpha-level open-source version of BeOS, running on a VM at home.

It is perhaps the most logical OS I've ever seen.
 
2014-05-02 04:17:18 PM  
Still doing the Micro$oft thing?  After Bill Gates spends ass-tons of money for charitable causes, while Steve Jobs treated his employees like crap and whose only charitable work was gifting his chinese workers suicide nets?  Really?
 
2014-05-02 04:24:14 PM  

Gonz: Nadie_AZ: Hehe. An old time OS flame war. Ah, I miss the 90s.

*buckles up*

BeOS has the best journaling file system out there. You'll see. It'll beat Microsoft on the desktop. They are working on an Intel version. It'll be better than OS/2 Warp 4 or even Amiga OS.

Linux isn't for the desktop yet. But this new KDE interface is gonna launch it onto the desktop. You'll see.

I have Haiku, which is an alpha-level open-source version of BeOS, running on a VM at home.

It is perhaps the most logical OS I've ever seen.


I was one of the last hold outs on that OS back in 2000-2001. Utterly heart breaking when they faded and sold the OS to Palm.

I've fired it up on VMs from time to time. But then I reach a point where I say 'no mas' as I don't want to start down that road again. Ah well.

It taught me a good lesson on choosing sides. Now I tend to side with whichever tool/OS is best for the job. I prefer *nix, but no longer hate MS.
 
2014-05-02 04:26:25 PM  

Nadie_AZ: Hehe. An old time OS flame war. Ah, I miss the 90s.

*buckles up*

BeOS has the best journaling file system out there. You'll see. It'll beat Microsoft on the desktop. They are working on an Intel version. It'll be better than OS/2 Warp 4 or even Amiga OS.

Linux isn't for the desktop yet. But this new KDE interface is gonna launch it onto the desktop. You'll see.


Hey buddy, I've been using Linux as a desktop since the mid 90's and works great. Why don't you take your head out of your ....

/Oh, wait! I don't care what system people use.
//Use what works for you!
///But I'm sticking with Linux ;)
 
2014-05-02 04:28:27 PM  
Why the fark is this thread green, for a bizzaro headline on relatively mundane patch news, and why the hell is it on the main page and not geek? It's nothing but a bunch of grumpy geeks grousing about how shiatty computers and users and life in IT are; fark me, it feels like I walked into /.
 
2014-05-02 04:29:09 PM  

I AM THE GOAT: AspectRatio: CeroX: "So screw that, I'm going to get a computer that just "works". I'm going to buy a Mac..."

$4,500 later...

$4500? Really? Maybe if you buy the top model Mac Pro plus a huge Thunderbolt display.

I bought a retina macbook pro last year for $2400. That's not small change, and yes it's more expensive than the average Lenovo or whatever, but it is far and away the best computer I've ever used. Super solid, fast, and miles beyond the new windows laptops in use at my office.

This is just one man's opinion, so don't lash out. I'm not a fanatic.

^^THIS.  I am using a Macbook Pro circa 2008.  I upgraded the memory to 8GB and bought a new battery for it, but it still works like a champ.  My wife is on her third low-mid range ($600-800) laptop in that same time frame.



I think much of the dislike for windows is because of similar experiences with low end pc's.  Sure enough, you buy sub-1k hardware, it's not going to last long.  For the past 10 years I've only bought business class hardware, which costs more but doesn't come with bloatware and have better warranties - in my case, on-site repair.  I've been very happy with this arrangement.

I'm using a Dell M3800 which is a gorgeous performance beast.  It cost $2500.  The closest macbook was around 3k, but would've had less storage and a consumer grade graphics card instead of workstation class.
 
2014-05-02 04:29:39 PM  

ShatteredMinds: Nadie_AZ: Hehe. An old time OS flame war. Ah, I miss the 90s.

*buckles up*

BeOS has the best journaling file system out there. You'll see. It'll beat Microsoft on the desktop. They are working on an Intel version. It'll be better than OS/2 Warp 4 or even Amiga OS.

Linux isn't for the desktop yet. But this new KDE interface is gonna launch it onto the desktop. You'll see.

Hey buddy, I've been using Linux as a desktop since the mid 90's and works great. Why don't you take your head out of your ....

/Oh, wait! I don't care what system people use.
//Use what works for you!
///But I'm sticking with Linux ;)


LOL
 
2014-05-02 04:29:52 PM  

letrole: lordargent: The login even sounds like 'troll', and I normally wouldn't reply (I think I even had him on my ignore list for a bit).

My surname is Le Trôle.


Wait.. Literally (le-trole-eh) or Figuratively?
i.imgur.com
 
2014-05-02 04:30:30 PM  

Cpl.D: Still doing the Micro$oft thing?  After Bill Gates spends ass-tons of money for charitable causes, while Steve Jobs treated his employees like crap and whose only charitable work was gifting his chinese workers suicide nets?  Really?


Guess who didn't read the thread?
 
2014-05-02 04:32:14 PM  

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: skozlaw: you may not care about IT, but it could be used to attack things you might care about. Even the router itself that's core to your network.

[img.fark.net image 600x381]


Thanks for posting that. Im going to include it in my next security briefing if you don't mind.
 
2014-05-02 04:34:35 PM  

Nadie_AZ: It taught me a good lesson on choosing sides. Now I tend to side with whichever tool/OS is best for the job. I prefer *nix, but no longer hate MS.


It helps that all of the OS vendors have matured quite a bit. Comparing where we are now with the 90's and early 2k's, the difference is so stark. If I had to go back to Win98/NT4, System 8, Netware, or Slackware, I'd pound my head into my desk so hard I forgot my own name.
 
2014-05-02 04:36:34 PM  

Gonz: Cpl.D: Still doing the Micro$oft thing?  After Bill Gates spends ass-tons of money for charitable causes, while Steve Jobs treated his employees like crap and whose only charitable work was gifting his chinese workers suicide nets?  Really?

Guess who didn't read the thread?


You realize you're asking someone on Fark that question.  Right?
 
2014-05-02 04:40:57 PM  

TNel: Netrngr: Or get an IT department that knows what the fark its doing and uses modern equipment. Just sayin' I have a 750-1000 user environment 53 servers and a staff of 4 guys and we handle a Dynamics2012 ERP cluster on top of the normal stuff our workstations boot in 3 sec ready to work. You have to limit the end users abilities to install anything and test all patches before you let them auto install. Don't blame MS because your IT guys are too lazy or too limited in their budget to do their jobs efficiently.Auditing/backups/patches etc should be done after hours and no weekends and shouldn't effect users performance in the least. Invest in your IT infrastructure and your department and they will invest in your continued success.

BS you can't even POST in 3 seconds.  You couldn't get an AD/LDAP lookup in 3 seconds.  God forbid you have Novel and Zenworks.  God I hate Zenworks, such a steaming pile of shiat.


You do realize that you can set the POST on most modern computers to be a silent check and only display if there is an error. I wasn't clear in my Boobies. I don't consider the machine functions part of the OS boot. I just timed my PC at work and from the OS start it was 4.5 seconds from windows start to ready to work. That said our machines all have SSDs in them and a pretty huge amount of RAM with static IP addressing so a lot of the busy work is done by simply eliminating the need for IP assignment, and as far as your statement on LDAP/AD if your OUs are properly maintained and purged then yes you can. Most folks do not follow best practices for AD cleanup and indexing. Just like any other database it requires maintenance.
 
2014-05-02 04:41:50 PM  

CeroX: I used to work at a HIPAA controlled place...

"But why can't *I* have access to Drop Box? I'm the personal assistant to Mr. VP of marketing and since you won't let me send this 258MB Power Point with embedded video to these external people through Outlook, they need SOME way of seeing this presentation! When Mr. VP of Marketing hears that his clients can't see this presentation I worked 3 weeks on, he's going to call someone important!"


At which point you're hindering getting work done.  You know, the exact opposite of what your job in IT actually is?

A quick google found this:  https://www.sookasa.com/blog/how-to-maintain-hipaa-compliance-with-dr o pbox-and-box/

And there are likely other products out there that will fix your issue.

And what are you doing with marketing on the same net with patient data anyway?  They don't need access to that.  They DO need to be able to do their jobs.  Put them outside the patient data firewall.  If they truly need access to both, put two computers on their desks.
 
2014-05-02 04:43:02 PM  
img.fark.net
 
2014-05-02 04:48:06 PM  

nocturnal001: Does using a dollar sign in place of the S in microsoft drive anyone else nuts? It's just stupid because yeah, they are just about the money, just like every other company. For me it ranks right up there with calling the Democratic Party "The Democrat Party".


OT:

You do realize that when the party was first formed the term "Democratic" was used as an insult to the Anti-Federalists by the Federalists.   Some how the name stuck.
 
2014-05-02 04:50:10 PM  

CeroX: AspectRatio: laptops in use at my office.

I get it, i do... and i'm not lashing out, believe me... I completely understand... what you guys fail to realize is this though, corporate computers have quite literally all that software i listed in my original post... best analogy can give you is, when you access or write a byte of data on your company laptop, that byte then becomes the victim of a data tug of war between the antivirus and encryption software. They both attempt to access that byte at the same time and it goes through a "mother may I" game before it will come to you, or go to your hard drive. Multiply that by the 1000's of bytes per actual block of information, and then multiply that by however many programs you are running, and yeah, the work computers are going to be slower than a Mac, or even just your home PC if you use one.

So yes, I get it, and at this point have come to accept it...

What bothers me is when people use $$$ to indicate that somehow MS is more money hungry than Apple, when Apple's entire pricing scheme is based on exploiting the frustration people generally feel with their work computers and are willing to pay triple for a system that doesn't come with the emotional baggage that their work computers do...

And the whole excuse about safety and viruses is ONLY because Apple is not the standard for business computing. If it was, the virus architects and hackers out there would spend all their time exploiting iOS instead of Windows...


All that and since I think it was like 2000 or 2001 Mac books use pretty much the same hardware as those 700 dollar windows PCs so really its the OS that coasting you tripple.
 
2014-05-02 04:51:54 PM  

NateAsbestos: The hate for Microsoft partly stems from IE's very existence, subby.


Naah, I hated M$ long before that.  I believe it started with a steaming piece of shiat known as M$-DOS.

/Last good product from M$ - AppleSoft BASIC.
 
2014-05-02 04:53:45 PM  

FTGodWin: Netrngr: Or get an IT department that knows what the fark its doing

You know, like posting on Fark all day instead of working.


Wow I gotta remember Im not allowed any vacation time while working in IT. How dare I take a day off or a break or anything. I stand corrected.
 
2014-05-02 04:53:51 PM  

Netrngr: You do realize that you can set the POST on most modern computers to be a silent check and only display if there is an error. I wasn't clear in my Boobies. I don't consider the machine functions part of the OS boot. I just timed my PC at work and from the OS start it was 4.5 seconds from windows start to ready to work. That said our machines all have SSDs in them and a pretty huge amount of RAM with static IP addressing so a lot of the busy work is done by simply eliminating the need for IP assignment, and as far as your statement on LDAP/AD if your OUs are properly maintained and purged then yes you can. Most folks do not follow best practices for AD cleanup and indexing. Just like any other database it requires maintenance.


When is boot not boot?
When you just don't call it that.


How can I eliminate slow boots on a network where I actually bother with maintaining and pruning AD?
Seemples. Eliminate DHCP.
 
2014-05-02 04:56:18 PM  

Gonz: Nope. Apple's a BSD distribution. It's a POSIX- compliant OS, which makes it virtually impossible to write a virus for.


That's a nice sentiment, but not true. Hell a simple google search "can a mac get a virus" will turn up a yes on literally every reply.

Is it harder to write one for? Sure. But I'm in the camp of "but who would want to?". When the business standard is PC, you attack PC. Viruses are there as exploits to gain information, and no information is more valuable than company and government secrets. Access to your bank account might be nice for the amateur, but a real hacker wants access to formulas, project details, schematics, or trade information. That's where the real money is. And that information just isn't going to be out there on Macs...
 
2014-05-02 04:58:29 PM  

CeroX: MightyPez: TNel: TNel: CeroX: Naturally, this is all Microsoft's fault. Not the bloated corporate versions of antivirus, encryption, start up scripts, group policy updates, security patches, inventory auditing, security monitoring and software distribution suites that also start up when they log into the machine... no... It's Windows...

LOL  I get that at my work.  Each year we get really nice computers to replace the old ones and they are quick... then we add in all the network software, anti-virus, etc and they are slow and people complain because their home computer is faster.  No shiat my home PC is faster also but it's not connecting to a bunch of crap in the morning.

Oops forgot to add they are usually the same people that complain about the wifi access and why can't we go to walmart and buy some more routers, they just got one for $50 and it's great, why do you need to spend $500 on an access point?

Do we work at the same place?

"No, you can't setup this router you got a great deal on because we specifically limit access due to federally mandated HIPAA guidelines. I know it's a bummer you can't use your cell phone on the wifi because it's weak in this part of the building and you don't want to pay network telecom services $3000 to put a new one in, but that's how it is.

I used to work at a HIPAA controlled place...

"But why can't *I* have access to Drop Box? I'm the personal assistant to Mr. VP of marketing and since you won't let me send this 258MB Power Point with embedded video to these external people through Outlook, they need SOME way of seeing this presentation! When Mr. VP of Marketing hears that his clients can't see this presentation I worked 3 weeks on, he's going to call someone important!"


Ive heard that a billion times. We turned off the ability to use You send it/or thumb drives and all file transfers have to go through us.
 
2014-05-02 04:59:44 PM  

Netrngr: CeroX: AspectRatio: laptops in use at my office.

I get it, i do... and i'm not lashing out, believe me... I completely understand... what you guys fail to realize is this though, corporate computers have quite literally all that software i listed in my original post... best analogy can give you is, when you access or write a byte of data on your company laptop, that byte then becomes the victim of a data tug of war between the antivirus and encryption software. They both attempt to access that byte at the same time and it goes through a "mother may I" game before it will come to you, or go to your hard drive. Multiply that by the 1000's of bytes per actual block of information, and then multiply that by however many programs you are running, and yeah, the work computers are going to be slower than a Mac, or even just your home PC if you use one.

So yes, I get it, and at this point have come to accept it...

What bothers me is when people use $$$ to indicate that somehow MS is more money hungry than Apple, when Apple's entire pricing scheme is based on exploiting the frustration people generally feel with their work computers and are willing to pay triple for a system that doesn't come with the emotional baggage that their work computers do...

And the whole excuse about safety and viruses is ONLY because Apple is not the standard for business computing. If it was, the virus architects and hackers out there would spend all their time exploiting iOS instead of Windows...

All that and since I think it was like 2000 or 2001 Mac books use pretty much the same hardware as those 700 dollar windows PCs so really its the OS that coasting you tripple.


Bullshiat

Bullshiat

Bullshiat
 
2014-05-02 05:00:08 PM  
www.jokesduniya.com
Oldy, but releant
 
2014-05-02 05:01:37 PM  

DarkVader: CeroX: I used to work at a HIPAA controlled place...

"But why can't *I* have access to Drop Box? I'm the personal assistant to Mr. VP of marketing and since you won't let me send this 258MB Power Point with embedded video to these external people through Outlook, they need SOME way of seeing this presentation! When Mr. VP of Marketing hears that his clients can't see this presentation I worked 3 weeks on, he's going to call someone important!"

At which point you're hindering getting work done.  You know, the exact opposite of what your job in IT actually is?

A quick google found this:  https://www.sookasa.com/blog/how-to-maintain-hipaa-compliance-with-dr o pbox-and-box/

And there are likely other products out there that will fix your issue.

And what are you doing with marketing on the same net with patient data anyway?  They don't need access to that.  They DO need to be able to do their jobs.  Put them outside the patient data firewall.  If they truly need access to both, put two computers on their desks.


I can't speak for CeroX, but people will use services that are not HIPAA compliant in place of already implemented and similar solutions. Dropbox is a great example of this at my place. We already have several in house solutions to sync and share files to outside sources as well as a BAA with Google for Google Drive access. Our security team has bent over backwards to get these in place. Dumping money for a third party to make another third party compliant would be a waste of money, time, and resources not to mention a logistical nightmare. And that doesn't cover the other myriad of services. What if people want OneDrive? Cubby? SugarSync? Do they have to cover every single service when they are serve the same functional purpose and just have a different name?

And that's just file syncing. What about email? Do they have to verify every third party service for that as well, or do they mandate a single mail system? Operating systems? Windows XP is out of support, are we suppose to allow anyone to use it because if we don't we're not providing good service?
 
2014-05-02 05:02:46 PM  
Today I updated to IE 10 (from 8) on my work computer.

Am IT pro

.

I AM THE GOAT: I am using a Macbook Pro circa 2008.  I upgraded the memory to 8GB and bought a new battery for it, but it still works like a champ.  My wife is on her third low-mid range ($600-800) laptop in that same time frame.


Wait, if the cheap machines your wife uses only last a third as long but cost a third as much... what's the problem?
 
2014-05-02 05:05:23 PM  

DarkVader: CeroX: I used to work at a HIPAA controlled place...

"But why can't *I* have access to Drop Box? I'm the personal assistant to Mr. VP of marketing and since you won't let me send this 258MB Power Point with embedded video to these external people through Outlook, they need SOME way of seeing this presentation! When Mr. VP of Marketing hears that his clients can't see this presentation I worked 3 weeks on, he's going to call someone important!"

At which point you're hindering getting work done.  You know, the exact opposite of what your job in IT actually is?

A quick google found this:  https://www.sookasa.com/blog/how-to-maintain-hipaa-compliance-with-dr o pbox-and-box/

And there are likely other products out there that will fix your issue.

And what are you doing with marketing on the same net with patient data anyway?  They don't need access to that.  They DO need to be able to do their jobs.  Put them outside the patient data firewall.  If they truly need access to both, put two computers on their desks.


1.) I don't work at that company any longer
2.) I didn't set the policy, I was, for lack of a better term, a grunt
3.) The company has well over 10,000 employees and changing any infrastructure there is a 2 year long project, due to it's size.
4.) All data was on the same network. HIPAA information was locked behind permissioning and blah blah blah, but again: It boiled down to the suits who make the policy, the not grunt on the front lines...
 
2014-05-02 05:10:27 PM  
gee, Avast said it had my back days ago.
 
2014-05-02 05:23:32 PM  

DarkVader: Netrngr: CeroX: AspectRatio: laptops in use at my office.

I get it, i do... and i'm not lashing out, believe me... I completely understand... what you guys fail to realize is this though, corporate computers have quite literally all that software i listed in my original post... best analogy can give you is, when you access or write a byte of data on your company laptop, that byte then becomes the victim of a data tug of war between the antivirus and encryption software. They both attempt to access that byte at the same time and it goes through a "mother may I" game before it will come to you, or go to your hard drive. Multiply that by the 1000's of bytes per actual block of information, and then multiply that by however many programs you are running, and yeah, the work computers are going to be slower than a Mac, or even just your home PC if you use one.

So yes, I get it, and at this point have come to accept it...

What bothers me is when people use $$$ to indicate that somehow MS is more money hungry than Apple, when Apple's entire pricing scheme is based on exploiting the frustration people generally feel with their work computers and are willing to pay triple for a system that doesn't come with the emotional baggage that their work computers do...

And the whole excuse about safety and viruses is ONLY because Apple is not the standard for business computing. If it was, the virus architects and hackers out there would spend all their time exploiting iOS instead of Windows...

All that and since I think it was like 2000 or 2001 Mac books use pretty much the same hardware as those 700 dollar windows PCs so really its the OS that coasting you tripple.

Bullshiat

Bullshiat

Bullshiat


For the middle one, that's what you get for using Intel products... switch those parts out with AMD brand and the cost just cut in half or more...

I JUST built a new PC last week, 3.9ghz AMD 8-Core processor ASUS MB, ASUS/AMD graphics card 4G DDR5, 120G SSD, 3TB WD HDD, water cooled, 24" 120hz LED monitor, the works

Total cost? $1200

Had i gone Intel CPU and Graphics, I would be looking at over $2k

So comparing Mac prices to PC prices when using the same brands might be similar, but a smart builder or shopper can get the same computing power for a LOT less money...
 
2014-05-02 05:32:30 PM  
Let me just say that writing secure software is *hard*. I would know; I have found some bugs myself, including one in Windows and one in Mac OS X. (I'm credited for the Mac one; the Windows one is pending.)

Code audits and coding style policies can only catch so much. Ultimately, the Halting Problem screws you in the end - looking at a program and knowing what it will do is equivalently difficult to proving a mathematical theorem. Proving such theorems for a 10-line program might be feasible sometimes, but web browsers are some of the biggest applications out there. Not to mention that I can easily write a ~20-line Python program that nobody in the last 2,200 years has been able to determine whether it terminates (the odd perfect number conjecture).
 
2014-05-02 06:30:49 PM  

CeroX: the bloated corporate versions of antivirus, encryption, start up scripts, group policy updates, security patches, inventory auditing, security monitoring and software distribution suites that also start up when they log into the machine


This.  Sooo much THIS.  Only at work can I crash Windows Explorer.  I am pretty sure its not Microsoft's fault.
 
2014-05-02 06:33:42 PM  
 
2014-05-02 06:36:15 PM  

DarkVader: NateAsbestos: The hate for Microsoft partly stems from IE's very existence, subby.

Naah, I hated M$ long before that.  I believe it started with a steaming piece of shiat known as M$-DOS.

/Last good product from M$ - AppleSoft BASIC.


Hey, Word 4 for the Mac KICKED ASS!
 
2014-05-02 06:52:55 PM  

Netrngr: Thanks for posting that. Im going to include it in my next security briefing if you don't mind.


Yeah, it's not mine. I stole it from krebsonsecurity.com. He has a higher rez version on his site.
 
2014-05-02 07:01:00 PM  

Shelbyville: Does the end of XP support really matter if I'm using a good antivirus program like Avast and am using a non IE browser like Chrome/Firefox?

Still use XP for my entertainment center desktop computer. See no reason to upgrade it if its main usage is living room internet browsing, streaming video, and some older Steam games.


<csb>
I once put a pre-SP 2 XP box on the network. It took 3 seconds for it to be compromised.
</csb>

Unless you're like me and work for a corporation that shelled out a metric ass-tonne of cash  to extend XP support, unplug that thing.
 
2014-05-02 07:21:21 PM  

DarkVader: Netrngr: CeroX: AspectRatio: laptops in use at my office.

I get it, i do... and i'm not lashing out, believe me... I completely understand... what you guys fail to realize is this though, corporate computers have quite literally all that software i listed in my original post... best analogy can give you is, when you access or write a byte of data on your company laptop, that byte then becomes the victim of a data tug of war between the antivirus and encryption software. They both attempt to access that byte at the same time and it goes through a "mother may I" game before it will come to you, or go to your hard drive. Multiply that by the 1000's of bytes per actual block of information, and then multiply that by however many programs you are running, and yeah, the work computers are going to be slower than a Mac, or even just your home PC if you use one.

So yes, I get it, and at this point have come to accept it...

What bothers me is when people use $$$ to indicate that somehow MS is more money hungry than Apple, when Apple's entire pricing scheme is based on exploiting the frustration people generally feel with their work computers and are willing to pay triple for a system that doesn't come with the emotional baggage that their work computers do...

And the whole excuse about safety and viruses is ONLY because Apple is not the standard for business computing. If it was, the virus architects and hackers out there would spend all their time exploiting iOS instead of Windows...

All that and since I think it was like 2000 or 2001 Mac books use pretty much the same hardware as those 700 dollar windows PCs so really its the OS that coasting you tripple.

Bullshiat

Bullshiat

Bullshiat


Yea, it's pretty easy to cherry pick.  How about this:  Call bullshiat and link me to a new 600$ macbook.  The lowest model is $1200 and has the specs of any cheap acer or asus.

I'm not hating on mac but saying they're not overpriced comparatively is just being dishonest.

I get why people are willing to pay more, just saying they are.
 
2014-05-02 07:21:29 PM  

skozlaw: What an insanely stupid headline.

Shelbyville: Does the end of XP support really matter if I'm using a good antivirus program like Avast and am using a non IE browser like Chrome/Firefox?

It certainly does. An antivirus application only protects against viruses and, even not using IE, there are still dozens of other things running on the system that can be exploited. For example, say the DHCP client on XP is discovered to have a problem whereby an attacker can send a packet of data to it, crash it and take over the process's shell to run other commands. That's not a virus and a/v software won't protect against it. A firewall might, but a firewall is another process that can be exploited.

These problems DO exist and WILL be used by attackers. They will NOT be fixed by Microsoft (well, except when they will be, like this).

Short of completely isolating the PC, you cannot protect it. And the problem becomes that, depending on what else it can see adjacent on the network, you may not care about IT, but it could be used to attack things you might care about. Even the router itself that's core to your network.


Not necessarily true. You can still safely use XP if you follow some semblance of best practices. (you should be doing this anyway)

*Don't connect the PC directly to the Internet, keep it behind a HW firewall (not just a router).
*Turn off services you don't need, i.e peer to peer, UPNP, server service, etc.
*Run Chrome or Firefox w/ Adblock, etc. Use EMET with IE if you *HAVE* to use it.
*Don't install extraneous software if you don't need it. (i.e. do you ever actually USE Java?) Uninstall what you don't need.
*Keep what plugins you do have installed UPGRADED (Flash/Java/Reader/etc).
*Activate the Windows/3rd party firewall and actually CONFIGURE it.
*Keep you AntiVirus program current, and configured for heuristics
*Use OpenDNS or like service for your DNS provider and configure it to block malicious sites.
*Don't use admin credentials unless you have to. Login with a restricted user account for normal activities.
*Don't be an Idiot.
*Don't surf porn/torrents/etc.
 
2014-05-02 07:29:41 PM  

NateAsbestos: The hate for Microsoft partly stems from IE's very existence, subby.


As someone who spent all afternoon fixing a bug caused by the latest version of IE 11 yet again, I can understand it.
 
2014-05-02 07:35:02 PM  

letrole: lordargent: The login even sounds like 'troll', and I normally wouldn't reply (I think I even had him on my ignore list for a bit).

My surname is Le Trôle.


DRINK!
 
2014-05-02 08:03:09 PM  

Dinjiin: sotua: $0 licensing is a real and tangible benefit available to all.

Which is just one part of the total cost of ownership for a product.  For many companies and organizations, the real costs may come from support, training and reliability.

There is a reason why a number of companies have become very rich providing consulting and support services for Linux and BSD.  Companies and organizations may be bound by terms and service agreements that require a higher level of service and support than can be obtained by the original authors, or even third party services.

So I'd say that you're partially right - it is a potential benefit for all.


Indeed. Having someone to yell at is an often overlooked benefit to vendor software, particularly in small shops where it budgets are thin.
 
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