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(Reason Magazine)   Having solved all crimes, cops now decide to harass wheelchair bound vets and their service dogs outside the VA, preventing them from getting care, arresting them, charging for non-crimes and more   (reason.com) divider line 110
    More: Asinine, service dog, Todd MacRae, cops  
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11089 clicks; posted to Main » on 02 May 2014 at 1:25 AM (32 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-02 06:16:39 AM  

spiritplumber: Aside the merits of this particular instance: I keep reading about police abuses in America, and the fact that a lot of positions in America are elected (sheriffs, DAs etc). So why not just vote the jackboots out?


People who vote for abusive authorities believe they are not the (type of) people who will suffer the abuse.
 
2014-05-02 06:23:12 AM  

jso2897: Some blame the guy, and some blame the cops.

How about some blame for the people who should have helped this guy, and the politicians who should have seen to it that there was funding and staff and facilities to help this guy?

When it's reached the point that the police are having to deal with a sick person, somebody hasn't done their job.

The oinkers aren't social workers or shrinks. They have to pick up the pieces after the social workers and shrinks have failed.


Funny how there is funding for the VA to have its own cops. Is there a Fedefal zgency without its own armed law enforcement?.  Lack of funding, as with most things government, is not the problem. It is how the funding is spent. How much do those cops cost the VA?

How much good could the VA done it the $300 million the Feds wasted here were redirected to the VA.


Government has plenty of revenue (approx. $5.7 TRILLION for FY2014 all levels of government combined) they just spend it stupidly.
 
2014-05-02 06:27:50 AM  
the government hires only the best and brightest.
that said, don't be a dick to federal cops
that said, barney fife needs to watch his ass and be as nice as possible when working in a place where all of the visitors have been trained to end humans

it seems so simple, everyone lose the ego
 
2014-05-02 06:48:59 AM  

hasty ambush: jso2897: Some blame the guy, and some blame the cops.How about some blame for the people who should have helped this guy, and the politicians who should have seen to it that there was funding and staff and facilities to help this guy?When it's reached the point that the police are having to deal with a sick person, somebody hasn't done their job.The oinkers aren't social workers or shrinks. They have to pick up the pieces after the social workers and shrinks have failed.
Funny how there is funding for the VA to have its own cops. Is there a Fedefal zgency without its own armed law enforcement?.  Lack of funding, as with most things government, is not the problem. It is how the funding is spent. How much do those cops cost the VA?

How much good could the VA done it the $300 million the Feds wasted here were redirected to the VA.
Government has plenty of revenue (approx. $5.7 TRILLION for FY2014 all levels of government combined) they just spend it stupidly.


Yep - wasteful military spending, subsidies for agriculture and business, lavish tax breaks for the rich - you are dead right, brother.  But wow, the VA got a WHOLE 300 million dollars? Big spending there - why that's almost half the price of a shiatty jet fighter that won't fly in the rain. Imagine wasting all that money on the low-class malingeres that are left over after out little adventures!
Frankly, if they were smart, they never would have gone into the service, and expected any gratitude once their usefulness to the ruling class was expended.
 
2014-05-02 06:52:46 AM  
THIS is why if I ever see a cop trapped in a burning car, I'll get some high quality video footage of his/her/their death.
 
2014-05-02 07:04:10 AM  

OnlyM3: That's right, it's the cops fault nobody gets treated at the VA
An elderly blind veteran crying in pain spent four hours and 45 minutes in the emergency room of the VA Medical Center in North Las Vegas before seeing a doctor in October, but federal inspectors said in a report Wednesday that such long waits were not unusual for patients at the hospital.

/// bush's fault


I don't know about the North Las Vegas VA, but my father has been seen at the Portland, Oregon VA frequently in the last few years and I see nothing but compassionate care for veterans there. Maybe that blind guy's day in October was pretty bad, who is to say, but if the emergency room is so packed that they can't see you for four hours, there are plenty of people who are having a worse day than you.
 
2014-05-02 07:22:55 AM  
I just think all sides are wrong, at one point or another.
 
2014-05-02 07:24:27 AM  

sycraft: You know Reason... I think I'd drop this story. Not saying the cops are justified here but this guy is massively unsympathetic. If you are so hostile towards your doctor that they call the cops, you have an issue. Yes they may have been asking you about your drinking. Know why? Because it is a major health related issue so it is their business. If you then are a dick to the cops, well it isn't 100% surprising if they are dicks back. Doesn't mean they are right to do it, but you can't really act all surprised.

Seriously people, when you want to write stories about police abuse, don't pick the ones where the victim is a total d-bag. It really doesn't get people over to your viewpoint.


This.  The only thing this story pointed out is 1) the vet is a dick.  2) Cops hold grudges.
 
2014-05-02 07:29:21 AM  
The biggest problem (and flaw) with having a system wherein people represent and enforce laws is the people themselves.  Few people are utterly uncorruptable, noble and altruistic enough to be trusted as fair and impartial machines of justice.  Police robots will be beneficial, regardless of what science fiction has led Internet nerds to fear.
 
2014-05-02 07:30:40 AM  

wambu: At least he didn't cite his military service as justification for acting like a dick, so I give him points for that.

Obviously, he is a dick and unafraid to act like one and seems to embrace that persona with gusto.



Without knowing more about the story, I'm more likely to give him the benefit of the doubt.  He has shrapnel in his neck and is wheelchair bound, and though we're not given the details on how either of those happened, it certainly points to a pretty traumatic incident, one of the type that could really fark with your head.  And he's probably more than paraplegic since he also needs a service dog.

Obviously the safety of the doctor comes first, but shouldn't the VA be equipped to deal with possibly violent psych patients?  It certainly sounds to me like the LEOs got petty with him after he swore at them and acted completely unprofessionally.  But we're still short on the details.

Maybe I'm cutting the guy too much slack but I have a couple family members who've come back from Iraq and Afghanistan with mental health problems and drug abuse problems.  And since there's not really any other family history of these problems, it's pretty easy to say what caused them.  I feel pity for this guy.
 
2014-05-02 07:38:27 AM  

Begoggle: Zzzzzzz just another cop-hating circle jerk on Fark, nothing new.


Another copsucker on Fark.
Zzzzz
 
2014-05-02 07:38:42 AM  

EdNortonsTwin: OnlyM3: That's right, it's the cops fault nobody gets treated at the VA
An elderly blind veteran crying in pain spent four hours and 45 minutes in the emergency room of the VA Medical Center in North Las Vegas before seeing a doctor in October, but federal inspectors said in a report Wednesday that such long waits were not unusual for patients at the hospital.

/// bush's fault

But we made Iraq and Afghanistan "better" and got to spend a bunch if money we didn't have on military adventures that went in to all the "right" peoples' pockets. And all these jacked-up vets, well it's not like they could have been working here at home producing anything, that's what outsourcing is for.


Your point, what is it?
 
2014-05-02 07:41:02 AM  

Pattuq: The biggest problem (and flaw) with having a system wherein people represent and enforce laws is the people themselves.  Few people are utterly uncorruptable, noble and altruistic enough to be trusted as fair and impartial machines of justice.  Police robots will be beneficial, regardless of what science fiction has led Internet nerds to fear.


"YOU HAVE TEN SECONDS TO COMPLY"
 
2014-05-02 07:41:10 AM  

Pattuq: The biggest problem (and flaw) with having a system wherein people represent and enforce laws is the people themselves.  Few people are utterly uncorruptable, noble and altruistic enough to be trusted as fair and impartial machines of justice.  Police robots will be beneficial, regardless of what science fiction has led Internet nerds to fear.


We're not going to get autonomous police robots. We're going to get remote-presence police robots that let cops behave even worse but at zero personal risk.  Sorry.
 
2014-05-02 08:02:31 AM  
This story is too sensational to be 100% accurate.  There has got to be more to it.
 
2014-05-02 08:03:04 AM  

jso2897: hasty ambush: jso2897: Some blame the guy, and some blame the cops.How about some blame for the people who should have helped this guy, and the politicians who should have seen to it that there was funding and staff and facilities to help this guy?When it's reached the point that the police are having to deal with a sick person, somebody hasn't done their job.The oinkers aren't social workers or shrinks. They have to pick up the pieces after the social workers and shrinks have failed.
Funny how there is funding for the VA to have its own cops. Is there a Fedefal zgency without its own armed law enforcement?.  Lack of funding, as with most things government, is not the problem. It is how the funding is spent. How much do those cops cost the VA?

How much good could the VA done it the $300 million the Feds wasted here were redirected to the VA.
Government has plenty of revenue (approx. $5.7 TRILLION for FY2014 all levels of government combined) they just spend it stupidly.

Yep - wasteful military spending, subsidies for agriculture and business, lavish tax breaks for the rich - you are dead right, brother.  But wow, the VA got a WHOLE 300 million dollars? Big spending there - why that's almost half the price of a shiatty jet fighter that won't fly in the rain. Imagine wasting all that money on the low-class malingeres that are left over after out little adventures!
Frankly, if they were smart, they never would have gone into the service, and expected any gratitude once their usefulness to the ruling class was expended.

The VA budget for FY 2014 is about $160 BILLION  not $300 million.  That $300 million was an example of money wasted by OBAMACARE on Oregon's failed  website that could have been used for VA care, NASA  etc.


And you are right about Farm subsides (approx 35% of all farms) , a lot defense spending, but you can also include the waste fraud and abuse in every federal agency.  Include at least half of all Federal school lunch funding, MEDICARE, MEDICAID, GSA, etc, etc, etc.


But let us just look at the VA and then tell me again how they need more funding?


"A year after testifying that some executives received bonuses by manipulating appointment data for veterans needing mental health care, a former Department of Veterans Affairs hospital administrator said officials have avoided the issue "like the plague."

..

Overall, the VA paid out about $194 million in bonuses in 2011, according to testimony during the hearing."


Link
Congressmen from both sides of the aisle have ripped the Department of Veterans Affairs for spending at least $3 million on two training conferences in Florida last year where VA employees allegedly received gifts of watches, concert tickets, and spa treatments.

Some reports indicate the VA spent $5 million on the pair of conferences but had already appropriated another $4 million for additional programs. Filner put the amount spent between $3 million and $9 million.

The training programs now under the IG microscope were held last July and August. The IG was tipped off about the excessive costs and gift-giving through its hotline and began its investigation in April. That's when members of the HVAC were notified, according to Filner.

Link
WASHINGTON - Outside the Veterans Affairs Department, severely wounded veterans have faced financial hardship waiting for their first disability payment. Inside, money has been flowing in the form of $24 million in bonuses.

In scathing reports this week, the VA's inspector general said thousands of technology office employees at the VA received the bonuses over a two-year period, some under questionable circumstances. It also detailed abuses ranging from nepotism to an inappropriate relationship between two VA employees.

The inspector general accused one recently retired VA official of acting "as if she was given a blank checkbook" as awards and bonuses were distributed to employees of the Office of Information and Technology in 2007 and 2008. In some cases the justification for the bonuses was inadequate or questionable, the IG said.

Link

Despite backlogs, VA disability claims processors get bonuses
In 2011, a year in which the claims backlog ballooned by 155 percent, more than two-thirds of claims processors shared $5.5 million in bonuses, according to salary data from the Office of Personnel Management.

"There are many, many employees who are exceeding their minimum standards, and they deserve to be recognized for that," she said.

The Baltimore office, which has the longest wait times in the country, gave bonuses averaging $1,100 each to 40 percent of its workforce. The Oakland, Calif., office, which shut its doors to retrain underperforming employees, awarded nine out of every 10 workers a total of about $33,000

In Sioux Falls, S.D., claims workers processed claims four times as fast as those in Oakland and Baltimore but less than one in 10 there received extra pay last year.


Link
 
2014-05-02 08:10:25 AM  

hasty ambush: But let us just look at the VA and then tell me again how they need more funding?


I do not presume to know whether the VA has "enough" funding. I would be a fool to do so.
So would anybody else on these forums.
It's good to remember that taking care of what's left of the people who fight our mostly frivolous wars is an extremely expensive, long term business - and the same assholes who are always in a big fat hurry to get us into one are always reluctant when it comes to paying for the collateral damage.
Maybe we should give it a good hard think the next time some shiathead wants us to jump on our big white charger and go "save" (I.E - reduse to rubble) some turd world shiathole on the other side of the planet. .
 
2014-05-02 08:10:44 AM  
Difficult call here, dude sounds like a bit of a dick, but, he is there to receive care for whatever his problems are, including alcoholism. Having him abused by uniformed thugs is not right.
 
2014-05-02 08:22:07 AM  

hasty ambush: "There are many, many employees who are exceeding their minimum standards, and they deserve to be recognized for that," she said.


You recognize people who exceed their minimium standards by not firing them.

You recognize people who do above average (or above a certain %) for the orginization with bonuses.

hasty ambush: The Oakland, Calif., office, which shut its doors to retrain underperforming employees, awarded nine out of every 10 workers a total of about $33,000

In Sioux Falls, S.D., claims workers processed claims four times as fast as those in Oakland and Baltimore but less than one in 10 there received extra pay last year


This upsets me to no end.

There are people in the govt who know how to do it better.

Why is the management in Baltimore and Oakland not following what is done in SD?
 
2014-05-02 08:29:42 AM  

Bslim: Difficult call here, dude sounds like a bit of a dick, but, he is there to receive care for whatever his problems are, including alcoholism. Having him abused by uniformed thugs is not right.


Well, cops suck at this kind of thing. The failure point was where this guy's problems were allowed to escalate to the point that they called the cops on him. At that point, the day was already lost - a couple of GEDs whose skillset consists of keeping the public order are, unsurprisingly, ill equipped to deal with the mentally ill. It's a tragedy that gets repeated all over the country every day.
 
2014-05-02 08:44:06 AM  

liam76: hasty ambush: "There are many, many employees who are exceeding their minimum standards, and they deserve to be recognized for that," she said.

You recognize people who exceed their minimium standards by not firing them.

You recognize people who do above average (or above a certain %) for the orginization with bonuses.

hasty ambush: The Oakland, Calif., office, which shut its doors to retrain underperforming employees, awarded nine out of every 10 workers a total of about $33,000

In Sioux Falls, S.D., claims workers processed claims four times as fast as those in Oakland and Baltimore but less than one in 10 there received extra pay last year

This upsets me to no end.

There are people in the govt who know how to do it better.

Why is the management in Baltimore and Oakland not following what is done in SD?



I suspect VA's answer would be that every region has differing amounts of caseload, case complexity, and such, so it'd be unfair to judge all regional offices off the same metric.  They also most likely use a shifting time window to average case completion time, to compensate for differing workloads in the same region throughout the year.  Tie that in with the Feds slavish devotion to the regs and rules, and you have an easy to manipulate system.

The only way I can work it out, is VA has something like a percent improvement in case completion time from last reporting window, to qualify for bonuses.  If Region X is at the top end of completion ability, they'll never hit that percent improvement metric to qualify for bonuses.  last month 30 cases a day, this month 31 a day, not good enough.

Now, if Region Y is a bunch of dirtbags, and only clears 3 cases a reporting period, goes to training, and suddenly is clearing 6 cases a period, that's an "amazing" improvement! Bonus time.

In my compensation re-eval, my file sat for almost 10 months without a doctors appt made. All of a sudden, I had eval appointments and testing every other day, and the rater had a decision down on paper and delivered before I'd even finished all the doctor ordered tests.  Found out a few weeks later that regional office had gotten bonuses for an "amazing reduction in average resolution times".
 
2014-05-02 08:56:11 AM  
So it's ok that he was a dick to his doctor who probably told him "yea, your excessive drinking is contributing to your blood issues so please stop". He doesn't like that answer and becomes more of a dick and she has to call security because she too feared for her safety. So you Farkers focus on how bad the cops are? Sounds about right.
 
2014-05-02 08:57:07 AM  

Endive Wombat: This story is too sensational to be 100% accurate.  There has got to be more to it.


Ding ding ding!  We have a winner.  The article reads like a heavily edited version of only one side of the story.  Back in the days when there were actual journalistic standards, the cops and the doctor would be given a chance to tell their side of the story.  Where's the "The VA cops refused to comment" or "the doctor declined an interview."

Reading the link in TFA tells me this guy is also a convicted felon currently on probation, something Reason couldn't be bothered to tell us I guess.
 
2014-05-02 08:57:40 AM  

IsThatYourFinalAnswer: I suspect VA's answer would be that every region has differing amounts of caseload, case complexity, and such, so it'd be unfair to judge all regional offices off the same metric.


Wellt hey shoudl be all judged off the same metric, not saying case load alone is perfect for that, but it shoudl be the same. If you are going to factor in complexity, great but do it the same everywhere. I was assuming the quoted VA official was correct, and in no organization shoudl simply meetingt he minimium be rewarded.


IsThatYourFinalAnswer: The only way I can work it out, is VA has something like a percent improvement in case completion time from last reporting window, to qualify for bonuses. If Region X is at the top end of completion ability, they'll never hit that percent improvement metric to qualify for bonuses. last month 30 cases a day, this month 31 a day, not good enough.


I could be wrong, but knowing the fed I doubt the rewards scheme is that complex.

Even if that is true they system needs an overhaul if the shiat performers are getting more than the good ones.
 
2014-05-02 09:00:21 AM  

KeelingLovesCornholes: So it's ok that he was a dick to his doctor who probably told him "yea, your excessive drinking is contributing to your blood issues so please stop". He doesn't like that answer and becomes more of a dick and she has to call security because she too feared for her safety, but then tells the cops they can leave because he calmed down. Then the cops lie or demonstrate their incometentcy by saying he can't have hsi service dog wihtout a muzzle in the hospital. Then the cops lie or demonstrate their incomeptency a secodn time by saying he can't record them. So you Farkers focus on how bad the cops are? Sounds about right.


FTFY.

Of course your omission soulds abotu right for a boot licker who think cops should be able to mkae up bs and harass peopel just because they weren't polite to them.
 
2014-05-02 09:08:54 AM  
The difference in rewards is rather simple.


Uncle sam throws money at problems, not at things that work as intended.
 
2014-05-02 09:09:19 AM  
late to the party yaddayadda yah. I am a veteran. I have been through the whole sheebang. VA cops are mostly vets themselves so most of them know how to treat vets etc. That being said its usually the newbie civilians that have the most issues with vets and tend to be rather quick on the panic button. Once the panic button is pressed the cops must make out a report and they must make sure the person who pressed it isn't saying its OK go away under duress. Some vets are under the influence and need the cops to come in and quiet things down. some don't. Frustration with the system is the biggest issue anyone has with the system and a lot of the workers do nothing to alleviate that stress and frustration. I award points to both sides for bad behavior.
 
2014-05-02 09:11:44 AM  

Persnickety: Endive Wombat: This story is too sensational to be 100% accurate.  There has got to be more to it.

Ding ding ding!  We have a winner.  The article reads like a heavily edited version of only one side of the story.  Back in the days when there were actual journalistic standards, the cops and the doctor would be given a chance to tell their side of the story.  Where's the "The VA cops refused to comment" or "the doctor declined an interview."

Reading the link in TFA tells me this guy is also a convicted felon currently on probation, something Reason couldn't be bothered to tell us I guess.


Unfortunately for the cops, they rarely do much press commentary in cases that could turn into an investigation. But even with that, there are other witnesses the reporters can question.
 
2014-05-02 09:33:06 AM  
kinda sounds like the setup for a bad joke.

two dicks walk into a doctor's office...
 
2014-05-02 09:44:26 AM  
So, cops are allowed to deny access to medical treatment to somebody who needs it ? Seriously ?

It doesn't matter if the guy was or wasn't a giant a-hole, for the cops to deny him his medical appointment is just unconscionable. To do it for completely invented charges should be a crime.

"Witness what can happen when government and healthcare collides in the worse way."

Let me see if I understand this statement: the cops acted badly, therefore governement healthcare is bad. Did I understand correctly ?
 
2014-05-02 09:58:45 AM  
Pimparoo:  Neither the cops nor the vet have their hands clean.

That is status quo for the Police and Military in every country with a private central bank.
 
2014-05-02 10:02:10 AM  
If he had access to Marijuana this never would have happened.
 
2014-05-02 10:57:26 AM  
Doktor_Zhivago
So the dude was a giant dick to everybody at the hospital and the cops told him to f*ck off
THIS IS AN OUTRAGE


Actually he told the cop to fark off and tried to record the cop. Then he was moved to be given a disorderly conduct summons and then asked by the cop why his service dog was not muzzled.

Where is being a dick illegal? I suppose there is the contempt of cop law.

Two douches going at it I suppose.
 
2014-05-02 11:36:59 AM  

Doktor_Zhivago: So the dude was a giant dick to everybody at the hospital and the cops told him to f*ck off

THIS IS AN OUTRAGE


Which would have been fine. But ambushing the dude and harassing him about his dog, and trying to eject him from the premises a week after the initial incident is wrong, and also a crime under TN state law.
 
2014-05-02 12:00:45 PM  
This douche deserved to get arrested, non story.

On a side note about VA healthcare, I have had many awesome doctors at the VA, sadly they don't tend to stay long and head off to greener pastures. The last good one I had she was with the VA for 7 months before she left. When I inquired about her departure she pretty much told me it was a nightmare working for the VA, the regulations and restrictions imposed on them, the ridiculous time frames for anything to happen. She told me to just get a primary outside the VA system and to stay away from the VA if at all possible. Told her I have always had a primary outside the VA but just go to the VA for service connected issues to keep the documentation going. Hopefully with the new healthcare law we don't start to see the private sector starting to mirror the issues that the VA has.
 
2014-05-02 12:11:38 PM  

hasty ambush: but you can also include the waste fraud and abuse in every federal agency


One of the first supervisors I had in federal service outside of the military was quasi demoted by being forced to transferred to another state in a different position due to him saving our sector over 600k a year two years in a row. Guess he got a chewing out the first year, told not to do it again and after the second year it was transfer time. Was my first introduction to not letting your budget not get used in the federal system, better to spend that money on not needed things over you possibly having your budget shrink.
 
2014-05-02 12:22:05 PM  

xanadian: So this story has government healthcare, police abuse, and the war on terror.

That's a three-fer.  I think we get high taxes and gay marriage involved, and I'll get the BINGO.


I had gun control and Animal Abuse on my card, so BINGO!!!!

What do I win?
 
2014-05-02 12:48:42 PM  
Cops harassing Vets. Where have I seen that before?

www.screeninsults.com

That's what happens when you draw first blood.
 
2014-05-02 01:05:33 PM  

dropdfun: hasty ambush: but you can also include the waste fraud and abuse in every federal agency

One of the first supervisors I had in federal service outside of the military was quasi demoted by being forced to transferred to another state in a different position due to him saving our sector over 600k a year two years in a row. Guess he got a chewing out the first year, told not to do it again and after the second year it was transfer time. Was my first introduction to not letting your budget not get used in the federal system, better to spend that money on not needed things over you possibly having your budget shrink.


Lots of medical facilities and government agencies create budgets for the next year based on what was spent over the last year.
So, if all of a sudden you NEED more money for improvements or more patients coming into your facility, you have no cash and have to apply for additional money, which in reality, doesn't get handed to you until the next fiscal year.

What should happen instead of only allowing for operating costs alone, is to have a 25% addition onto the budget to allow for such situations, but then you run into USPS problems i.e.

Fund Supplier: "You're making too much money- you have this pool of money just left over wallowing collecting interest; you have to do something with it- we MANDATE you have to put it into your Retirement funds"
Fund User: "Well, yes we have some money free, but we need to update the fleet of trucks with new tires this year, and we were hoping to also save that money, so we can add new postalfacilities to the following counties as we've gotten complaints form some consumers" *Fund Supplier has ignored your financial planning arguments*

The other side is the corrupt officials who just want that money to hang around, end up "saving 10% across the board" this year, and getting a kickback bonus as a result, when they could have saved 45%, but ended up not getting a scaled bonus for that, and losing being able to claim that money on next year's budget.
 
2014-05-02 01:43:35 PM  

dropdfun: This douche deserved to get arrested, non story.

On a side note about VA healthcare, I have had many awesome doctors at the VA, sadly they don't tend to stay long and head off to greener pastures. The last good one I had she was with the VA for 7 months before she left. When I inquired about her departure she pretty much told me it was a nightmare working for the VA, the regulations and restrictions imposed on them, the ridiculous time frames for anything to happen. She told me to just get a primary outside the VA system and to stay away from the VA if at all possible. Told her I have always had a primary outside the VA but just go to the VA for service connected issues to keep the documentation going. Hopefully with the new healthcare law we don't start to see the private sector starting to mirror the issues that the VA has.


On what basis ?
 
2014-05-02 01:49:54 PM  

BobTheHamster: The cop ordered him off the hospital under threat of trespass arrest, which caused MacRae to miss his weekly appointment for his blood tests that enables him to survive despite having more than 20 pieces of metal in his neck.

That's right. He will die now because he didn't get his blood drawn. Thanks cops.

As soon as people start over-exaggerating it makes me think that they aren't being very honest about the whole situation.


The blood tests are probably about monitoring the level of some critical medicine with a narrow therapeutic range.
 
2014-05-02 01:51:13 PM  
Contempt of cop is not a crime.
 
2014-05-02 01:59:52 PM  

washington-babylon: Doktor_Zhivago: So the dude was a giant dick to everybody at the hospital and the cops told him to f*ck off

THIS IS AN OUTRAGE

Which would have been fine. But ambushing the dude and harassing him about his dog, and trying to eject him from the premises a week after the initial incident is wrong, and also a crime under TN state law.


Still don't have the full story, who is to say this mans demeanor and attitude was not directed at someone else earlier and complaints were made before the VA police officer arrived on the scene for his interwebs film debut? Also I don't know why anyone would want to be VA police, they don't even get government law enforcement pay, just regular GS scale.
 
2014-05-02 02:24:44 PM  

Doktor_Zhivago: So the dude was a giant dick to everybody at the hospital and the cops told him to f*ck off

THIS IS AN OUTRAGE


This. The guy was out of line.

Also, Reason has it slightly wrong: the VA is not Tennessee property, it is a federal reservation, just like a military post. State law doesn't apply; federal law does.

Having said that, I have no idea what federal law is regarding the photographing/recording of LEOs on the job is.

I have gotten away with telling doctors at the VA to fark off, and with coming out of my chair--however, those doctors were well known to be provocative (I also have a TBI and PTSD, so that gets me a little more slack, but that doesn't excuse me from bad behavior, either--and anyone who uses it as an excuse is wrong for doing so). One was older than dirt and thought women should not be veterans--and told us that to our faces, and one caused me to miscarry, did not follow up, and several months later, I had to have a hysterectomy because of her malpractice. After the surgery, I learned from the patient advocate that I was not the first female veteran she had done that to. She was barred from practicing on female veterans. I feel bad for the male veterans...

The VA cops were wrong for harassing him about his dog because the dog is fully permitted under federal law. But the guy is a douche and is being treated like one. No story here.
 
2014-05-02 03:06:01 PM  

OnlyM3: That's right, it's the cops fault nobody gets treated at the VA
An elderly blind veteran crying in pain spent four hours and 45 minutes in the emergency room of the VA Medical Center in North Las Vegas before seeing a doctor in October, but federal inspectors said in a report Wednesday that such long waits were not unusual for patients at the hospital.

/// bush's fault


The first pathetic troll to rush in to the defense of another lunatic also off his meds, shocking!
 
2014-05-02 03:11:40 PM  

Aigoo: Doktor_Zhivago: So the dude was a giant dick to everybody at the hospital and the cops told him to f*ck off

THIS IS AN OUTRAGE

This. The guy was out of line.

Also, Reason has it slightly wrong: the VA is not Tennessee property, it is a federal reservation, just like a military post. State law doesn't apply; federal law does.

Having said that, I have no idea what federal law is regarding the photographing/recording of LEOs on the job is.

I have gotten away with telling doctors at the VA to fark off, and with coming out of my chair--however, those doctors were well known to be provocative (I also have a TBI and PTSD, so that gets me a little more slack, but that doesn't excuse me from bad behavior, either--and anyone who uses it as an excuse is wrong for doing so). One was older than dirt and thought women should not be veterans--and told us that to our faces, and one caused me to miscarry, did not follow up, and several months later, I had to have a hysterectomy because of her malpractice. After the surgery, I learned from the patient advocate that I was not the first female veteran she had done that to. She was barred from practicing on female veterans. I feel bad for the male veterans...

The VA cops were wrong for harassing him about his dog because the dog is fully permitted under federal law. But the guy is a douche and is being treated like one. No story here.


With the owner's behavior I wouldn't be surprised if the dog went from calm to aggressive, taking its cue from the old blowhard.
 
2014-05-02 03:20:07 PM  
Smackledorfer:

With the owner's behavior I wouldn't be surprised if the dog went from calm to aggressive, taking its cue from the old blowhard.


In fairness, that's what a dog is supposed to do; support his/her owner, regardless.
 
2014-05-02 03:22:40 PM  

hasty ambush: But let us just look at the VA and then tell me again how they need more funding?


hasty ambush: The VA budget for FY 2014 is about $160 BILLION



There are over 5.5 million disabled veterans according to data I found from 2008. The number is much higher today.

Going by 2008 numbers, that is a yearly budget of $28,000 for each hospital to care for each of them, and provide medical care to any veteran. Total number of veterans is over 23.2 million. 65 and older veterans are over 9 million in total. All these people receive care at VA hospitals that are funded by the number you provided.

Why do you think only 160 billion is enough money to provide adequate care to such a large number? Do you really think they can not only hire enough qualified doctors nurses and support staff, but also fund the huge bureaucracy required to process applications?
 
2014-05-02 03:44:55 PM  

spiritplumber: Smackledorfer:

With the owner's behavior I wouldn't be surprised if the dog went from calm to aggressive, taking its cue from the old blowhard.


In fairness, that's what a dog is supposed to do; support his/her owner, regardless.


Agreed. Not knocking the dog at all.
 
2014-05-02 05:09:19 PM  

Bob Robert: hasty ambush: But let us just look at the VA and then tell me again how they need more funding?

hasty ambush: The VA budget for FY 2014 is about $160 BILLION


There are over 5.5 million disabled veterans according to data I found from 2008. The number is much higher today.

Going by 2008 numbers, that is a yearly budget of $28,000 for each hospital to care for each of them, and provide medical care to any veteran. Total number of veterans is over 23.2 million. 65 and older veterans are over 9 million in total. All these people receive care at VA hospitals that are funded by the number you provided.

Why do you think only 160 billion is enough money to provide adequate care to such a large number? Do you really think they can not only hire enough qualified doctors nurses and support staff, but also fund the huge bureaucracy required to process applications?



Part of the problem is that you think of it as only $160 billion dollars. that is a lot of money-plenty of money.

Look at it this way . The UK National Heath Service (NHS) plans on spending about $163 billion dollars or a little less than $3000 per capita on health care in 2014. (depending conversion rate from pounds to dollars I use 1=1.5)


Link


Not all veterans receive care from the VA. I am veteran and the only veteran benefits I have used was the Old GI Bill and buying land through the Stare of Texas Veterans program. I managed to escape without in permanent service connected injuries or illnesses and I have adequate insurance so I don't need to burden the VA. I could use it if I wanted to but better those resources go to a Vet that really needs them.


I know some older WWII- Korea-Vietnam types who do for minor stuff like hearing aids and eyeglasses
.For the most part they prefer the private sector care for the major stuff if they want to be seen quickly.using Tricare-Medicare depending on their circumstances. I know most of the younger ones who have it prefer their private insurance for any non-service connected stuff that comes up.
Other than some Meds and checkups most them are not using your $28,000 worth of care either.

A disable vet can be anybody with a light but qualifying hearing loss to the truly disabled. So that money is not spread around equally per vet.


Ii would also mention that we are, sadly, losing our WWII and Korea vets at a high rate so the biggest work load on the VA health system will be decreasing since veterans are becoming a smaller and smaller part of the population.
 
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