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(KEZI Eugene)   Mother of man that attacked two women with a pick ax blames a) violent video games, b) the Police or c) Our country's failing mental health system   (kezi.com) divider line 69
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2005 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 May 2014 at 2:22 PM (12 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-01 01:50:04 PM
d) Pick Axe Pete
 
2014-05-01 02:14:09 PM
She's not wrong.
 
2014-05-01 02:24:47 PM
Yes
 
2014-05-01 02:26:07 PM
Blame the Police, specifically Sting.
 
2014-05-01 02:26:49 PM
Flippin 'ell? What the eff did we have to do wiv it?

i.telegraph.co.uk
 
2014-05-01 02:27:25 PM

SundaesChild: She's not wrong.


I would say there are many other things at fault, but that is definitely a major one.
 
2014-05-01 02:27:30 PM

SundaesChild: She's not wrong.


This
The mother is not wrong.
 
2014-05-01 02:30:40 PM
Our country's failing mental health system is a large part of the reason that Fark exists.

/ambiguity intended
 
2014-05-01 02:30:43 PM
Thanks Reagan
 
2014-05-01 02:31:26 PM
Before yesterday, Tom never exhibited any violence
Mary says her son suffers from schizophrenia and he's been off his medication.



Apparently he is fine on his meds.  Why should he be in some sort of in-patient facility?
 
2014-05-01 02:31:26 PM
"Tom would either have to commit suicide or harm someone like he did yesterday," said Mary Murphy.

Yeah, he'd get immediate treatment if he committed suicide.
bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com
 
2014-05-01 02:33:53 PM

SirDigbyChickenCaesar: Before yesterday, Tom never exhibited any violence
Mary says her son suffers from schizophrenia and he's been off his medication.


Apparently he is fine on his meds.  Why should he be in some sort of in-patient facility?


Difficulty: Getting seriously mentally ill people to regularly take their meds.
 
2014-05-01 02:34:02 PM
FTFA: "Mary says her son suffers from schizophrenia and he's been off his medication."

Before you go blaming anyone there Mary, why was he off his medication?
 
2014-05-01 02:36:48 PM

SundaesChild: She's not wrong.


^^^^^^^^
 
2014-05-01 02:36:56 PM
I have been a psychologist for 15 years. Just in the time I have been licensed, the mental health system has worsened to the point where public health is definitely impacted. I used to be able to admit a kid who wanted to pull a Colombine for a couple of weeks while we assessed him and got services in place. Now? 24 hours if the kid is apprehended with a gun in his hand walking up the school driveway.
 
2014-05-01 02:37:44 PM

craxyd: FTFA: "Mary says her son suffers from schizophrenia and he's been off his medication."

Before you go blaming anyone there Mary, why was he off his medication?


Because he likely started feeling better while he was on it and then convinced himself that he doesn't need it because he doesn't have any symptoms and therefore can't possibly be sick.
 
2014-05-01 02:38:44 PM
So the problem is not a mother who knew her son had  issues and was off his Meds?
 
2014-05-01 02:39:46 PM

craxyd: FTFA: "Mary says her son suffers from schizophrenia and he's been off his medication."

Before you go blaming anyone there Mary, why was he off his medication?


Patient autonomy, anyone?
Our collective wisdom, starting with Reagan, is that involuntary services are bad. Which makes sense since women and minorities were locked up for indeterminate amounts of time because they were inconvenient to someone. But we've swung too far the other direction.
 
2014-05-01 02:42:07 PM
SirDigbyChickenCaesar:
Apparently he is fine on his meds. Why should he be in some sort of in-patient facility?

Because the compliance rate for schizophrenics for taking medications is very, very poor when not supervised.

As in "about four out of five stop taking their antipsychotic drugs within two years" levels of poor, according to some studies.

They start the drugs, start to feel fine after a few weeks (or start feeling bad due to side effects), decide they're cured (or are tired of the side effects), and stop. Bingo! "Where's my pickaxe?"
 
2014-05-01 02:43:07 PM
Careful with that ax Eugene.
 
2014-05-01 02:43:46 PM

Anayalator: Thanks Reagan


Yep, let them hit the streets.  They'll find their way into a 'for profit' prison system eventually.
/the ciiiiiiircle of life
 
2014-05-01 02:44:35 PM

bobrktb: So the problem is not a mother who knew her son had  issues and was off his Meds?


No, the issue is the mother who knew her son had issues and was off his meds and there was no other recourse to get him help without him hurting himself or other people first.
 
2014-05-01 02:46:02 PM

bobrktb: So the problem is not a mother who knew her son had  issues and was off his Meds?


What was she supposed to do?

He is 34. She is presumably aged.

Also,

"Mary says she tried on three separate occasions to get her son help, but officials told her he wasn't severe enough for treatment. ."

So no. The problem is not the mother.
 
2014-05-01 02:46:15 PM
Clearly guns are to blame here and should be outlawed.
 
2014-05-01 02:47:43 PM

SundaesChild: She's not wrong.


Thread over
 
2014-05-01 02:49:22 PM

Janusdog: craxyd: FTFA: "Mary says her son suffers from schizophrenia and he's been off his medication."

Before you go blaming anyone there Mary, why was he off his medication?

Patient autonomy, anyone?
Our collective wisdom, starting with Reagan, is that involuntary services are bad. Which makes sense since women and minorities were locked up for indeterminate amounts of time because they were inconvenient to someone. But we've swung too far the other direction.


That wasn't Reagan. The courts decided that in the '60s, and institutionalized mental health patient numbers dropped by 65 percent between '68 and '78. Carter came up with a plan to create community-centered, outpatient mental health treatment all over the country, which Reagan promptly defunded as one of his first acts in office. So Reagan didn't say, "We can't lock 'em up any more." Reagan just said, "Fark 'em!"
 
2014-05-01 02:51:00 PM

cirby: SirDigbyChickenCaesar:
Apparently he is fine on his meds. Why should he be in some sort of in-patient facility?

Because the compliance rate for schizophrenics for taking medications is very, very poor when not supervised.

As in "about four out of five stop taking their antipsychotic drugs within two years" levels of poor, according to some studies.

They start the drugs, start to feel fine after a few weeks (or start feeling bad due to side effects), decide they're cured (or are tired of the side effects), and stop. Bingo! "Where's my pickaxe?"


To be fair, when one of your main symptoms is paranoia, it's a bit much to expect you to trust in your medication.
 
2014-05-01 02:51:08 PM

Queensowntalia: bobrktb: So the problem is not a mother who knew her son had  issues and was off his Meds?

What was she supposed to do?

He is 34. She is presumably aged.

Also,

"Mary says she tried on three separate occasions to get her son help, but officials told her he wasn't severe enough for treatment. ."

So no. The problem is not the mother.

Yes it is!

 
2014-05-01 02:52:10 PM
Okay. Supervision from a therapist and doctor are expensive and therapy is almost never covered, drugs are. Part of his condition is medication compliance...which is often helped with therapy.

Blah blah blah.

She's not wrong.
 
2014-05-01 02:52:38 PM
Janusdog:
Our collective wisdom, starting with Reagan, is that involuntary services are bad.

When it comes to mental health and commitments, you mean "starting with Kennedy." And "continuing and mostly executed during Johnson and Carter." By the time Reagan was President, the whole thing was in final cleanup mode.

The push for outpatient treatment came from "progressive" psychiatrists, not politicians. They claimed they could treat crazy people with drugs, showed a few success stories, and failed to admit that it doesn't work for the majority, even after a half-century of trying and failing.

It's not even vaguely possible to blame this on Reagan. The people in the California psych system said "hey, we can treat a lot of these people - just move them to outpatient therapy, and we can get them out of those horrible old asylums. It will be much, much more humane! And it won't cost any more!" So Governor Reagan signed off on it after a lot of people - Democrats and Republicans both - told everyone it would work. It didn't.

By the time Reagan became President, there were a lot of asylums closing - but they were closing because they were empty, not the other way around.
 
2014-05-01 02:53:56 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: craxyd: FTFA: "Mary says her son suffers from schizophrenia and he's been off his medication."

Before you go blaming anyone there Mary, why was he off his medication?

Because he likely started feeling better while he was on it and then convinced himself that he doesn't need it because he doesn't have any symptoms and therefore can't possibly be sick.


I was under the impression that it was common for schizophrenics to go off their meds. Somehow, we have a system that has convinced itself that mentally ill people can be trusted to regularly take their meds despite the severely unpleasant side-effects and the fact that when they do feel better, they no longer believe themselves to be ill enough to need meds.
 
2014-05-01 02:58:18 PM

cirby: Janusdog:

By the time Reagan became President, there were a lot of asylums closing - but they were closing because they were empty, not the other way around.


Bullshiat. Reagan gutted the Mental Health Systems Act of 1980 and replaced it with...nothing. Reagan wasn't the one who closed the in-patient institutions, but he certainly was the one who ensured that no federal dollars would be spent to deal with the fallout.

Then came Ronald Reagan. Within a month, the Office of Management Budget announced it would curtail the budget of the National Institute of Mental Health (NIMH), phase out training of clinicians, interrupt research, and eliminate services. Cutbacks to staff followed; chaos ensued. Experienced people left, others remained in government service but were forced into menial jobs. Trained professionals were reassigned to labs to dissect dead rats; science writers were reassigned to typing pools. The Mental Health Systems Act would be disappear. Instead, the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act (1982) would merge money for mental health programs into block grants, and with fewer dollars going to the states. They had the discretion to use them however they saw fit, often to perpetuate programs already deemed problematic. The pretense for all this was the president's concept of a "new federalism."
 
2014-05-01 03:01:09 PM

capt.hollister: The My Little Pony Killer: craxyd: FTFA: "Mary says her son suffers from schizophrenia and he's been off his medication."

Before you go blaming anyone there Mary, why was he off his medication?

Because he likely started feeling better while he was on it and then convinced himself that he doesn't need it because he doesn't have any symptoms and therefore can't possibly be sick.

I was under the impression that it was common for schizophrenics to go off their meds. Somehow, we have a system that has convinced itself that mentally ill people can be trusted to regularly take their meds despite the severely unpleasant side-effects and the fact that when they do feel better, they no longer believe themselves to be ill enough to need meds.


I have a relative who suffers from schizophrenia.  It's very difficult to treat, and the medication often has nasty side-effects.  Most of the medications he tried got rid of the psychotic episodes, but turned him into a mindless vegetable.  The one medication that worked and didn't turn him into a vegetable messed up his insulin, so he was able to function normally, but he ballooned up to 400 pounds.

For a patient who doesn't really understand what the medication is doing, I can imagine the temptation to stop taking it and thereby ditch the side-effects would be very strong.
 
2014-05-01 03:03:10 PM

bobrktb: So the problem is not a mother who knew her son had  issues and was off his Meds?


Why would it be?

Was this a child?
 
2014-05-01 03:06:04 PM
Good thing that mental health diagnosis is an exact science and they can predict these things with certainty. That way he should've been locked up and they could just monitor him forever.

All the 'it's broken' types should at least come up with a better idea than 'watch them all the time'. That and realize that since psychology is more of an art than exact science that identifying things like this isn't as simple as they imagine.
 
2014-05-01 03:06:37 PM

Mad_Radhu: SirDigbyChickenCaesar: Before yesterday, Tom never exhibited any violence
Mary says her son suffers from schizophrenia and he's been off his medication.


Apparently he is fine on his meds.  Why should he be in some sort of in-patient facility?

Difficulty: Getting seriously mentally ill people to regularly take their meds.


I fully understand that but we can't just hospitalize all of them.  As far as I know, atleast around here, you can't be forced to take your medication unless you are involuntarily committed.  That seems like quite a harsh step for someone that otherwise leads a somewhat normal life

/minus the pick-ax'n of course
 
2014-05-01 03:07:27 PM

China White Tea: Why would it be?Was this a child?


So...It's society's fault for not watching him...but not the mother? I don't get your logic.
 
2014-05-01 03:12:21 PM
Locked em up.
If this was any other creature on the planet we would put it down.
 
2014-05-01 03:16:33 PM

Janusdog: I have been a psychologist for 15 years. Just in the time I have been licensed, the mental health system has worsened to the point where public health is definitely impacted. I used to be able to admit a kid who wanted to pull a Colombine for a couple of weeks while we assessed him and got services in place. Now? 24 hours if the kid is apprehended with a gun in his hand walking up the school driveway.


Wonder why that is? Oh yeah, it's because your kind has a terrible history of mistreating patients and exerting full control over them in the name of mental health.
 
2014-05-01 03:17:18 PM
a) violent video games, b) the Police or c) Our country's failing mental health system d) Being off his meds.
 
2014-05-01 03:19:34 PM
LazyMedia:
Carter came up with a plan to create community-centered, outpatient mental health treatment all over the country, which Reagan promptly defunded as one of his first acts in office.

Carter came up with a plan - or at least the Carter-created Presidential Commission on Mental Health did - but it was pretty bad, and ended up as the Mental Health Systems Act. Which managed to promise a lot of things and never actually fund them.

You have to remember that, at that point, most of the funding for mental health issues came at the state level, not Federal. The MHSA suggested a large increase in funding (post-1981), which wasn't going to happen. Instead, it was effectively repealed, and block grants were sent to the stated for mental health and substance abuse programs.

You should also remember that a lot of the "cuts" were just shifts away from the mental health programs themselves and to things like Social Security and other social programs. The idea was supposed to be "we're making them outpatients, so we don't need to give rent money and utilities to house the patients to the programs any more, do we?"

The later cuts in mental health funding - by the states - were at that level, not Federal. Yet people blame Reagan for cuts in state funding in places like New York...
 
2014-05-01 03:21:42 PM
LazyMedia:
Bullshiat. Reagan gutted the Mental Health Systems Act of 1980 and replaced it with...nothing.

Except that's a lie. It was replaced with large block grants directly to the states.

Of course, the MHSA was mostly lies in and of itself. It was never - never - going to work as written. It did all the wrong things, promised a lot more, and was going to be several times as expensive as it promised.
 
2014-05-01 03:22:27 PM

Russ1642: Janusdog: I have been a psychologist for 15 years. Just in the time I have been licensed, the mental health system has worsened to the point where public health is definitely impacted. I used to be able to admit a kid who wanted to pull a Colombine for a couple of weeks while we assessed him and got services in place. Now? 24 hours if the kid is apprehended with a gun in his hand walking up the school driveway.

Wonder why that is? Oh yeah, it's because your kind has a terrible history of mistreating patients and exerting full control over them in the name of mental health.


And America is only home to racist slave owners and gold miners. And Japan only has guys who are into tentacle porn. And all former East Germans have neo-Nazi tendencies.

Your broad brush, needs some trimmin'.
 
2014-05-01 03:25:01 PM
Capo Del Bandito:
All the 'it's broken' types should at least come up with a better idea than 'watch them all the time'.

Why?

"Watch them all the time" actually works - at least, it works much, much better than what we're currently doing. We've known that for a half-century or so.
 
2014-05-01 03:27:32 PM

cirby: "Watch them all the time" actually works - at least, it works much, much better than what we're currently doing. We've known that for a half-century or so.


Speaking as one of those that'd end up on such a watch list, I'd have to say 'fark all that' and opt out. For the moments of lucidity, it's kinda more madness inducing to be in places even if you are aware it's for your own protection.
 
2014-05-01 03:34:24 PM

Capo Del Bandito: cirby: "Watch them all the time" actually works - at least, it works much, much better than what we're currently doing. We've known that for a half-century or so.

Speaking as one of those that'd end up on such a watch list, I'd have to say 'fark all that' and opt out. For the moments of lucidity, it's kinda more madness inducing to be in places even if you are aware it's for your own protection.


On average, who's more likely to hurt people: a paranoid schizophrenic or bipolar person off his meds, or a mean drunk? I'm pretty sure it's the drunk, but I don't see anybody proposing to preemptively lock up all the drunks.
 
2014-05-01 03:44:37 PM

LazyMedia: On average, who's more likely to hurt people: a paranoid schizophrenic or bipolar person off his meds, or a mean drunk? I'm pretty sure it's the drunk, but I don't see anybody proposing to preemptively lock up all the drunks.


Well if I were drunk while on a manic high I'd say I'm more of a threat to myself more than anyone else.

Unless someone tried to take away the whiskey, in which case things would turn sour.
 
2014-05-01 03:45:15 PM
Who the hell walks around with a liter of Mountain Dew?
 
2014-05-01 03:45:28 PM

bobrktb: So the problem is not a mother who knew her son had  issues and was off his Meds?


As the wife a schizophrenic, I can tell you, when they decide to stop their meds, there is nothing -- NOTHING -- that can be done to 'make' them take them. I count pills and do the Nurse Ratchet thing and yet every couple of years, Mr. MMM begins refusing his meds until he's walking the neighborhood with loaded shotguns looking for whatever he thinks is out there trying to kill him. Even then -- EVEN THEN -- the police unload his weapons, and return them and him home. Then it's a waiting game to see if his actions will allow his doctor to hospitalize him or if he becomes more lucid and will begin re-taking his meds.

And, yes, I've had all weapons purged from our home multiple times. And, yes, he gets more. Yay, America!
 
2014-05-01 03:53:56 PM

MutantMotherMouse: bobrktb: So the problem is not a mother who knew her son had  issues and was off his Meds?

As the wife a schizophrenic, I can tell you, when they decide to stop their meds, there is nothing -- NOTHING -- that can be done to 'make' them take them. I count pills and do the Nurse Ratchet thing and yet every couple of years, Mr. MMM begins refusing his meds until he's walking the neighborhood with loaded shotguns looking for whatever he thinks is out there trying to kill him. Even then -- EVEN THEN -- the police unload his weapons, and return them and him home. Then it's a waiting game to see if his actions will allow his doctor to hospitalize him or if he becomes more lucid and will begin re-taking his meds.

And, yes, I've had all weapons purged from our home multiple times. And, yes, he gets more. Yay, America!


Have you tried hiding his meds in his food? make lots and lots of yams.
 
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