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(The Register)   Fifty years ago today, the programming world began its eternal September. Still no cure for vbCrLf   (theregister.co.uk) divider line 81
    More: Interesting, Sinclair BASIC, programming, MS-DOS, office suite, programming languages, cure  
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2549 clicks; posted to Geek » on 01 May 2014 at 9:23 AM (34 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-05-01 08:42:51 AM  
I leave VB off my resume when I apply for jobs.
 
2014-05-01 08:45:35 AM  

Tr0mBoNe: I leave VB off my resume when I apply for jobs.


I grew up with TRS-80 ROM Basic, then GWBasic then QB 4.5 and finally VB.  When I went to college and learned C, Java, Lisp, etc. I realized just how godawful Basic really is.  It's ok for a hobbyist but it is NOT a serious programming language.
 
2014-05-01 08:47:30 AM  
59% of .Net developers list visual basic as their only language? Damn!
 
2014-05-01 08:57:24 AM  

gnosis301: 59% of .Net developers list visual basic as their only language? Damn!


Then why are they being considered as developers?
 
2014-05-01 08:57:28 AM  
I don't know that you'd lump Visual Basic, Scripting Edition in with rotten old DOS BASIC.  And if you've gotten the pre-requisites installed, PowerShell is much more terse.

But the best programming language is one that someone else on your team knows so you can take the next juicy job offer and dump all those scripts in their lap when the time comes.
 
2014-05-01 09:05:00 AM  
I learned BASIC in1969 - and I still use it. Bad programs can be written in ANY language.
 
2014-05-01 09:30:23 AM  

Tr0mBoNe: I leave VB off my resume when I apply for jobs.


I don't. I dance with who brought me, and my first book was for Visual Basic 5. I know a LOT of languages - some are better than others, but they're all tools in my toolbox. You can turn your nose up if you like, but a lot of business applications were written in VB, and much like JCL & COBOL programmers of old, VB developers are actually getting harder to find - no one wants to admit that they coded in it.

Sure, I'll write in Perl, PHP, Python, Ruby, C#, VB.NET, C++, F#, JavaScript, and Java - but I'll also write in Visual Basic, REXX, VX-REXX, VB, GW-BASIC, QuickBasic 4.5, SmallTalk, and Delphi, too, especially if the money's right. I'm not proud - I like eating.
 
2014-05-01 09:32:41 AM  

syrynxx: I don't know that you'd lump Visual Basic, Scripting Edition in with rotten old DOS BASIC.  And if you've gotten the pre-requisites installed, PowerShell is much more terse.

But the best programming language is one that someone else on your team knows so you can take the next juicy job offer and dump all those scripts in their lap when the time comes.


Bingo. The fun part is realizing that, when you have enough experience, technologies, and methodologies under your belt, "juicy" isn't about "the next big thing," but "supply and demand."

"Young bull, old bull" joke, in dev form, basically.
 
2014-05-01 09:38:14 AM  

FormlessOne: Tr0mBoNe: I leave VB off my resume when I apply for jobs.

I don't. I dance with who brought me, and my first book was for Visual Basic 5. I know a LOT of languages - some are better than others, but they're all tools in my toolbox. You can turn your nose up if you like, but a lot of business applications were written in VB, and much like JCL & COBOL programmers of old, VB developers are actually getting harder to find - no one wants to admit that they coded in it.

Sure, I'll write in Perl, PHP, Python, Ruby, C#, VB.NET, C++, F#, JavaScript, and Java - but I'll also write in Visual Basic, REXX, VX-REXX, VB, GW-BASIC, QuickBasic 4.5, SmallTalk, and Delphi, too, especially if the money's right. I'm not proud - I like eating.


function yellThis() {
      return "THIS";
}
//Slashes indicate comment that is no way related to the code you are looking at.
 
2014-05-01 09:40:44 AM  
i291.photobucket.com
 
2014-05-01 09:51:40 AM  
1010 WAYTO GOSUB
 
2014-05-01 09:52:33 AM  
i.imgur.com
 
2014-05-01 09:52:47 AM  

Thanks for the Meme-ries: [i291.photobucket.com image 768x544]


Hell yeah!  I was coding on the C64 in 4th grade.  Nothing spectacular, but it was a nice introduction to programming and making a computer do things.
 
2014-05-01 09:56:16 AM  
Anyone else ever get told to optimize their VBScript code?
 
2014-05-01 09:56:50 AM  
I do not think "eternal September" means what you think it means, subby.
 
2014-05-01 09:57:56 AM  

robbo: I do not think "eternal September" means what you think it means, subby.


This.
 
2014-05-01 09:58:19 AM  

syrynxx: I don't know that you'd lump Visual Basic, Scripting Edition in with rotten old DOS BASIC.  And if you've gotten the pre-requisites installed, PowerShell is much more terse.

But the best programming language is one that someone else on your team knows so you can take the next juicy job offer and dump all those scripts in their lap when the time comes.


powershell -command " write-host 'THIS.' "
 
2014-05-01 10:00:01 AM  

ReverendJasen: Thanks for the Meme-ries: [i291.photobucket.com image 768x544]

Hell yeah!  I was coding on the C64 in 4th grade.  Nothing spectacular, but it was a nice introduction to programming and making a computer do things.


I remember eagerly awaiting my next issue of Compute's Gazette C-64 edition to see what new game code was printed in the back.

/I spent 4 hours copying code for this piece of shiat?  Son of a biatch!
 
2014-05-01 10:09:08 AM  
I started off with Sinclair Basic back in the late 80s where I was writing simple games and modifying them. Back then, many magazines would have long lists of source code that you could use and play around with. Mind you, at the time I was about 9-10 years old, but it was nice.

I haven't used it in decades, but I could easily get into it again.

Over the years though there is probably 8-10 languages I had to learn for various work and college purposes and another half dozen I use in my current position. Next year, who knows what I be using.
 
2014-05-01 10:10:11 AM  

Tom_Slick: I remember eagerly awaiting my next issue of Compute's Gazette C-64 edition to see what new game code was printed in the back.

/I spent 4 hours copying code for this piece of shiat? Son of a biatch!


Byte magazine for me.  I'd run across it at the grocery once in a while and beg my parents to buy it.  While my friends would beg for comics or candy.
No wonder everyone thought I was a bizarre child.
 
2014-05-01 10:13:24 AM  
Ah, the main introduction (building on Fortran) of people to statement numbers and the harmful GOTO. Spaghetti code (praise be the FSM).

Do modern Basics still have GOTO?

What is the current exemplar of spaghetti? I would nominate some stuff written with Object Oriented Programming with inheritance where some seemingly simple operation on an object stitches together stuff defined in 10 different places.
 
2014-05-01 10:14:35 AM  

jasonvatch: I learned BASIC in1969 - and I still use it. Bad programs can be written in ANY language.



1978 for me, on a Wang 2200.

/adjusts onion on belt, and points out yours is off-kilter, too.
 
2014-05-01 10:16:27 AM  

Hack Patooey: jasonvatch: I learned BASIC in1969 - and I still use it. Bad programs can be written in ANY language.


1978 for me, on a Wang 2200.

/adjusts onion on belt, and points out yours is off-kilter, too.


They need to bring out a new version of the Wang brand nowadays.

What you doing. Playing with my Wang. It never grows old.
 
2014-05-01 10:19:30 AM  
10 if $subby = $retard then 50
20 $subby = $retard : goto 10
30 rem that was because $subby really is a $retard
40 poke 36879,8
50 print "perhaps go find out what Eternal September means at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September "
60 goto 10
 
2014-05-01 10:20:12 AM  
VB was a more efficient platform for delivering custom applications to small business than most languages, and still is for many projects.

It has its uses to be sure, and it's still retarded that some developers look down on it, especially nowadays since it's a real OOP language.
 
2014-05-01 10:20:59 AM  

HairBolus: What is the current exemplar of spaghetti?


I'm not current or anything, but I'd say property managers. Code on objects that react to property changes made on other objects (outside of the inheritance chain, I mean.) Makes tracing execution flow pretty painful.
 
2014-05-01 10:22:25 AM  

styckx: [i.imgur.com image 640x350]


I wasted so much time on that game and Nibbles.  My first "programming" was changing the right values to get huge explosions and other game hacks.

My first real programming was in PASCAL.  Is that still used at all as a teaching language?  When I was in high school, they transitioned from PASCAL to C++.  The year after I graduated they moved completely to teaching JAVA.  I thought PASCAL was an excellent programming introduction and it's a shame if it's not being used as a teaching tool anymore.
 
2014-05-01 10:23:05 AM  
thumbs3.ebaystatic.com
Classic.
 
2014-05-01 10:23:46 AM  

HairBolus: Ah, the main introduction (building on Fortran) of people to statement numbers and the harmful GOTO. Spaghetti code (praise be the FSM).

Do modern Basics still have GOTO?

What is the current exemplar of spaghetti? I would nominate some stuff written with Object Oriented Programming with inheritance where some seemingly simple operation on an object stitches together stuff defined in 10 different places.


Any language that allows external references, global variables, recursion, polymorphism and/or access to actual pointers is already spaghetti waiting to be boiled. Java and .NET/C# are good at it.. especially if you are verbose in your class and method names.

Don't feel bad if you write spaghetti.. you'll be gone when the pimply faced youth that comes after you has to maintain it. I'm writing an instance manager to run a series of tools and I don't want to hard code it. So I'm using an XML configuration and reflection to load the right classes for each test.

Screw comments. This code is obvious enough.
 
2014-05-01 10:24:52 AM  

MayoSlather: VB was a more efficient platform for delivering custom applications to small business than most languages, and still is for many projects.

It has its uses to be sure, and it's still retarded that some developers look down on it, especially nowadays since it's a real OOP language.


When it first came out, it also made middle managers think programming was far simpler than it actually is. "Why cant you deliver this gigantic project in two weeks?  Its all drag and drop now!"

No wonder I spent most of the 90s drinking heavily.

But, yea, it has matured into a fairly nifty tool for certain kinds of projects.
 
2014-05-01 10:25:19 AM  

ReverendJasen: Thanks for the Meme-ries: [i291.photobucket.com image 768x544]

Hell yeah!  I was coding on the C64 in 4th grade.  Nothing spectacular, but it was a nice introduction to programming and making a computer do things.


Hand-coding sprite masks. I miss the old days, sometimes... but not often.
 
2014-05-01 10:26:38 AM  
No HyperCard love? :D
 
2014-05-01 10:27:25 AM  

MooseUpNorth: HairBolus: What is the current exemplar of spaghetti?

I'm not current or anything, but I'd say property managers. Code on objects that react to property changes made on other objects (outside of the inheritance chain, I mean.) Makes tracing execution flow pretty painful.


By all that is right and just, yes. Poorly-written async code, overly-implemented property managers, and direct GC manipulation - all make me want to tear off some clever fool's arm and beat him senseless with the wet end...
 
2014-05-01 10:28:21 AM  
10 Print "Swiss Colony is Cool"
20 goto 10
Run

Swiss Colony is Cool
Swiss Colony is Cool
Swiss Colony is Cool
Swiss Colony is Cool
Swiss Colony is Cool
Swiss Colony is Cool
Swiss Colony is Cool
 
2014-05-01 10:29:54 AM  

HairBolus: Do modern Basics still have GOTO?

What is the current exemplar of spaghetti? I would nominate some stuff written with Object Oriented Programming with inheritance where some seemingly simple operation on an object stitches together stuff defined in 10 different places.


Even VB.net still allows the use of "goto".  Sometimes I'd catch one of the Indian contractors using an "On Error Goto xxx" somewhere, and I'd have to kick them.  Do the needful Apu, and wrap that code in a Try block.
 
2014-05-01 10:31:21 AM  
Not much love for Basic, huh? Started with Sinclair, then TRS80, QB, BPDS, then VB. VB is used by too many companies, but the CS world is ending thanks to the Internets. Want to look down your nose at a language? Cobol.
 
2014-05-01 10:32:52 AM  

DrSansabeltNoShiatSlacks: Not much love for Basic, huh? Started with Sinclair, then TRS80, QB, BPDS, then VB. VB is used by too many companies, but the CS world is ending thanks to the Internets. Want to look down your nose at a language? Cobol.


I made some big coin COBOL consulting with companies in the runup to Y2K.
 
2014-05-01 10:36:51 AM  

DrSansabeltNoShiatSlacks: Not much love for Basic, huh? Started with Sinclair, then TRS80, QB, BPDS, then VB. VB is used by too many companies, but the CS world is ending thanks to the Internets. Want to look down your nose at a language? Cobol.


When I was in college, 2000-2005 they were really pressing us to take Cobol, stating that thousands of jobs at companies like State Farm are still available maintaining legacy code.  I don't regret saying lolnothx.

Of course, here I am still maintaining System/36 basic legacy code, but we are finally migrating this year.
 
2014-05-01 10:45:07 AM  

Hack Patooey: DrSansabeltNoShiatSlacks: Not much love for Basic, huh? Started with Sinclair, then TRS80, QB, BPDS, then VB. VB is used by too many companies, but the CS world is ending thanks to the Internets. Want to look down your nose at a language? Cobol.

I made some big coin COBOL consulting with companies in the runup to Y2K.


I was debating that at the time since those jobs were paying so well. I just couldn't bring myself to code in COBOL again. Kill it with fire.
 
2014-05-01 10:49:18 AM  

MayoSlather: Hack Patooey: DrSansabeltNoShiatSlacks: Not much love for Basic, huh? Started with Sinclair, then TRS80, QB, BPDS, then VB. VB is used by too many companies, but the CS world is ending thanks to the Internets. Want to look down your nose at a language? Cobol.

I made some big coin COBOL consulting with companies in the runup to Y2K.

I was debating that at the time since those jobs were paying so well. I just couldn't bring myself to code in COBOL again. Kill it with fire.


A lot of it was "Please help us figure out what to change, we'll bring a dump truck of money to your house!" jobs, so I didnt actually WRITE that much code.  Mostly it was just analysis.

/Rails monkey now
 
2014-05-01 10:49:49 AM  

Tr0mBoNe: HairBolus: Ah, the main introduction (building on Fortran) of people to statement numbers and the harmful GOTO. Spaghetti code (praise be the FSM).

Do modern Basics still have GOTO?

What is the current exemplar of spaghetti? I would nominate some stuff written with Object Oriented Programming with inheritance where some seemingly simple operation on an object stitches together stuff defined in 10 different places.

Any language that allows external references, global variables, recursion, polymorphism and/or access to actual pointers is already spaghetti waiting to be boiled. Java and .NET/C# are good at it.. especially if you are verbose in your class and method names.

Don't feel bad if you write spaghetti.. you'll be gone when the pimply faced youth that comes after you has to maintain it. I'm writing an instance manager to run a series of tools and I don't want to hard code it. So I'm using an XML configuration and reflection to load the right classes for each test.

Screw comments. This code is obvious enough.


Except for polymorphism, which is an invaluable tool for organizing any significant code base, Java has none of those, and they're frowned upon in C#.
 
2014-05-01 10:51:56 AM  

Hack Patooey: MayoSlather: Hack Patooey: DrSansabeltNoShiatSlacks: Not much love for Basic, huh? Started with Sinclair, then TRS80, QB, BPDS, then VB. VB is used by too many companies, but the CS world is ending thanks to the Internets. Want to look down your nose at a language? Cobol.

I made some big coin COBOL consulting with companies in the runup to Y2K.

I was debating that at the time since those jobs were paying so well. I just couldn't bring myself to code in COBOL again. Kill it with fire.

A lot of it was "Please help us figure out what to change, we'll bring a dump truck of money to your house!" jobs, so I didnt actually WRITE that much code.  Mostly it was just analysis.

/Rails monkey now


Those were the days, "We'll pay you $65.00 an hour, plus a $10,000 completion bonus if you can finish by August"
 
2014-05-01 10:56:49 AM  

Hack Patooey: MayoSlather: Hack Patooey: DrSansabeltNoShiatSlacks: Not much love for Basic, huh? Started with Sinclair, then TRS80, QB, BPDS, then VB. VB is used by too many companies, but the CS world is ending thanks to the Internets. Want to look down your nose at a language? Cobol.

I made some big coin COBOL consulting with companies in the runup to Y2K.

I was debating that at the time since those jobs were paying so well. I just couldn't bring myself to code in COBOL again. Kill it with fire.

A lot of it was "Please help us figure out what to change, we'll bring a dump truck of money to your house!" jobs, so I didnt actually WRITE that much code.  Mostly it was just analysis.

/Rails monkey now


I'm hearing companies are doing a lot of that now, so I'm considering dusting off my hat and being a gun-for-hire in COBOL analysis.
 
2014-05-01 10:58:02 AM  

nekom


I grew up with TRS-80 ROM Basic, then GWBasic then QB 4.5 and finally VB. When I went to college and learned C, Java, Lisp, etc. I realized just how godawful Basic really is. It's ok for a hobbyist but it is NOT a serious programming language.


Wow, really?? One might even think that was how it was designed. Hint: go learn what the 'B' stands for.
 
2014-05-01 10:59:32 AM  
:(){ :|:& };:
 
2014-05-01 11:01:55 AM  

Gary-L: Hack Patooey: MayoSlather: Hack Patooey: DrSansabeltNoShiatSlacks: Not much love for Basic, huh? Started with Sinclair, then TRS80, QB, BPDS, then VB. VB is used by too many companies, but the CS world is ending thanks to the Internets. Want to look down your nose at a language? Cobol.

I made some big coin COBOL consulting with companies in the runup to Y2K.

I was debating that at the time since those jobs were paying so well. I just couldn't bring myself to code in COBOL again. Kill it with fire.

A lot of it was "Please help us figure out what to change, we'll bring a dump truck of money to your house!" jobs, so I didnt actually WRITE that much code.  Mostly it was just analysis.

/Rails monkey now

I'm hearing companies are doing a lot of that now, so I'm considering dusting off my hat and being a gun-for-hire in COBOL analysis.


Yea, there's still lots of big iron out there, and companies looking for people with ANY kind of experience in COBOL or Fortran.  Its tempting.  SWMBO and I figured I knocked off about 5 years of retirement age target by consulting (and working full time) for 2 years before Y2K.  The money was/is REAL good playing with the big toys.
 
2014-05-01 11:03:03 AM  

Tom_Slick: Hack Patooey: MayoSlather: Hack Patooey: DrSansabeltNoShiatSlacks: Not much love for Basic, huh? Started with Sinclair, then TRS80, QB, BPDS, then VB. VB is used by too many companies, but the CS world is ending thanks to the Internets. Want to look down your nose at a language? Cobol.

I made some big coin COBOL consulting with companies in the runup to Y2K.

I was debating that at the time since those jobs were paying so well. I just couldn't bring myself to code in COBOL again. Kill it with fire.

A lot of it was "Please help us figure out what to change, we'll bring a dump truck of money to your house!" jobs, so I didnt actually WRITE that much code.  Mostly it was just analysis.

/Rails monkey now

Those were the days, "We'll pay you $65.00 an hour, plus a $10,000 completion bonus if you can finish by August"


Around '98 I was hired on the spot after a ten minute interview for 45 an hour to make Crystal Reports that weren't even connected to data. It was the easiest money I ever made.
 
Ant
2014-05-01 11:08:22 AM  
I like VB.net. I've used it for some custom ASP.net components on our website. I wouldn't call myself a programmer though.
 
2014-05-01 11:08:28 AM  

ReverendJasen: HairBolus: Do modern Basics still have GOTO?

What is the current exemplar of spaghetti? I would nominate some stuff written with Object Oriented Programming with inheritance where some seemingly simple operation on an object stitches together stuff defined in 10 different places.

Even VB.net still allows the use of "goto".  Sometimes I'd catch one of the Indian contractors using an "On Error Goto xxx" somewhere, and I'd have to kick them.  Do the needful Apu, and wrap that code in a Try block.


The modern version of GOTO is continuations, a style that can easily be used to confuse people but is quite handy in particular applications.

For example rather than passing an object z = {x: 1, y: 2} to a function foo(xy, ...), the function fooCont(x, y), closed over the other arguments of foo is passed to the object. For example:

z = {x: 1, y: 2, xyConter: function (cont){return cont(this.x, this.y)}}

Here computing x+y can be achieved via

z.xyConter(function (ax bx) {return ax+bx});
 
2014-05-01 11:08:29 AM  

MayoSlather: Tom_Slick: Hack Patooey: MayoSlather: Hack Patooey: DrSansabeltNoShiatSlacks: Not much love for Basic, huh? Started with Sinclair, then TRS80, QB, BPDS, then VB. VB is used by too many companies, but the CS world is ending thanks to the Internets. Want to look down your nose at a language? Cobol.

I made some big coin COBOL consulting with companies in the runup to Y2K.

I was debating that at the time since those jobs were paying so well. I just couldn't bring myself to code in COBOL again. Kill it with fire.

A lot of it was "Please help us figure out what to change, we'll bring a dump truck of money to your house!" jobs, so I didnt actually WRITE that much code.  Mostly it was just analysis.

/Rails monkey now

Those were the days, "We'll pay you $65.00 an hour, plus a $10,000 completion bonus if you can finish by August"

Around '98 I was hired on the spot after a ten minute interview for 45 an hour to make Crystal Reports that weren't even connected to data. It was the easiest money I ever made.


Pretty much how I got that job, fresh out of college with a COBOL certification on my CS minor and degree in Business Administration.  Then spent a couple of years running a call center, then 10 years as an AS400 guru, after the tech industry burn out culminating in spending 3 years being a PI/Pawn Shop owner, now I'm a legacy systems integration hired gun mostly working from home.
 
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