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(Gizmodo)   Scientists discover how ancient Egyptians moved 2.5 ton blocks to build pyramids, condos made of stone-a   (gizmodo.com) divider line 43
    More: Spiffy, Egyptians, Egyptologists, University of Amsterdam, pyramids, condos, pileup, Middle Kingdom, rocks  
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20653 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 May 2014 at 3:53 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

2014-05-01 04:33:47 AM  
14 votes:

Frederick: Here's a troubling fact Egyptologists dont like to discuss: Ever see pics from the inside of a typical Egyptian king burial chamber (example Tutankhamen)? All the of the wall space is covered in artwork. All of it. Ever see the burial chamber artwork from the 3 great pyramids?


And here we come to the problem when people talk about Ancient Egypt: They keep addressing it as if it was one contiguous, unbroken civilization that was unchanging and everlasting, and that it was the same way at the end that it was at the beginning, with no real cultural changes, values or attitude differences. This is wrong.

Ancient Egypt lasted 3000 years! You have any idea how farking long that is? It lasted through 3 Ages, Six major periods and over 30 dynasties. Its religion, culture, and politics constantly changed with the interests and dynamics of its leaders. Some gods that were important at the beginning fell out of favor later on, and they were heavily influenced by their neighbors especially considering that they were occupied by foreigners for nearly 1/3 of their existence.

To address your point, the Pyramid of Khufu and the tomb of Tutankhamen are separated by over 1300 years of cultural drift. We can't even get languages to last that long, what makes you think King Tut's people valued the same things as Khufu's people? Why would you assume that the Old Kingdom ought to draw all over their walls just because the Middle Kingdom did? The Old Kingdom was all about the pyramids. They built over 100 of them. That stopped during the Intermediate Period -- some 600 years later, before even Hammurabi.

The Middle Kingdom was all about the Valley of the Kings because they learned that putting their dead Pharaohs with all their stuff in giant above-ground mausoleums was pretty stupid because it made them easy targets for graverobbers. The new hotness was to try and hide their dead kings and even boobytrap the tombs. The New Kingdom was even more non-descript: Some Pharoahs were just buried with all their stuff in a hillside, with nary a marker or any indication that they were there. That still didn't stop the graverobbers from finding them.

Egypt is not one monolithic entity. It evolved and changed over time like the world around it, and to assert that parts of it don't look like other parts without recognizing the immense timespan between them is short-changing the mutability of Egyptian religion and culture in the ancient world.
2014-05-01 12:43:46 AM  
7 votes:

doglover: Scientists don't really discover a whole lot. Discoveries are usually engineers and laypeople.


As an engineer, let me celebrate how fuking ignorant your anti-intellectual ass is.

Engineers don't discover, we use the discoveries of scientists to make awesome shiat.
2014-05-01 04:11:59 AM  
4 votes:

Lukeonia1: Nope, the general consensus is that the folks who built the pyramids were paid laborers. After all, would you want your monument carved by a surly, unpaid slave?


It's not that they were paid laborers, it's that the Nile river floods like clockwork for three months every year. So you have this massive agrarian population who literally have nothing to do, waiting for the waters to recede so they could plant/harvest their crops.

Well, the Pharaohs found something for them to do.
2014-05-01 04:07:29 AM  
4 votes:

Frederick: Where is the effort to understand his work? Last I knew only on university had even studied Corral Castle and essentially gave up.


There's no mystery to Coral Castle. It was built the same way every other massive stone structure in ancient times was built: With a block and tackle, lever and fulcrum. Understanding the center of gravity is the key to moving anything (Archimedes famously boasted that he could move the entire world itself if he had a large enough lever).

I mean, let's be realistic here: If Edward Leedskalnin really could levitate rocks, then why did it take him 30 god damn years for him to build the stupid thing? For a guy with supposed magic powers, he sure took his sweet-ass time putting them to use. He only worked at night and he kept the engineering a secret because it made for a good story. It was good tourism.

But there's nothing mystical about his story at all, the "In Search Of" episode notwithstanding.
2014-05-01 09:24:29 AM  
3 votes:

J. Frank Parnell: Except the stones the great pyramids are made of weigh so much more. Like 70 or 200 tons more. Our best modern cranes can't lift the things, and we're supposed to believe they floated them many miles downriver from where they were quarried on rafts made of reeds, then put logs under them and rolled them over sand for many more miles. Yes, sand.

There are even some megalithic stones around the world which weigh over a thousand tons. Something is definitely up when we're supposed to believe primitive cultures did things we still can't.


I'm going to go ahead and assume you're just making a joke or something.  We have cranes that can lift upwards of 5.5million pounds, or roughly 2750 tons.  We can put 200ton cranes on wheels.  And power it with roughly 500hp, which is about the same force you could get out of ~3000 organized laborers.    As far as the article goes, 2.5 tons is not all that much weight and could easily be moved with enough people and enough time which the Egyptians had plenty of each.
What a 200ton crane might light like:
image.made-in-china.com
2014-05-01 06:00:12 AM  
3 votes:

untaken_name: zarker: untaken_name: Now we just need to figure out how they got the pyramids so close to square without lazor beams.

I have absolutely no knowledge of the pyramids but I'm gonna go with maybe counting? You can make a bunch of smaller squares that you know are square, count them out on the x and y axis?

Obviously. Why would you even bother responding when it's clear you don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about? The Great Pyramid covers an area of 13 acres. The sides are square to within 58mm on each side. That is INSANE. Even with laser transits, we can't get buildings only one square city block in area that true.


The Egyptians were really REALLY good at that kind of thing for a simple reason- the Nile flooded EVERY YEAR. People had land they used for agriculture under that water, the very same water that tended to wash away markers used for surveying. Since more land = more crops, every year it would be a dispute whose property lines were where once the river receded, especially since that was the most fertile and valuable land. Every year it had to get re-figured out by surveyors, who had to be able to appease all parties involved. Egyptians pretty much invented surveying as a thing that people did to figure this stuff out, and invented a lot of math to help them. So they had a ton of people sitting around with a lifetime's worth of surveying skills with hundreds of years of practice behind them understanding how to measure distances between things and being very, very precise about it.
2014-05-01 05:28:56 AM  
3 votes:

robohobo: untaken_name: robohobo: Maybe because he's interested in the topic? Instead of, you know, interested in being a dick? FFS.

Then why didn't he post about the topic? That seems like a better route to take if you're interested in the topic. Instead of, you know, posting retarded non sequiturs. Also, I asked him, not you, dumbass. FFS.

/not interested in being a dick
//also not interested in NOT being a dick
///GFY if you don't like it.

Anyway, regarding your post, how the fark can we NOT make buildings absolutely true?


We can make buildings level, plumb, and square. Instead, we choose to make buildings with affordable standardized and mass produced parts, and choose to accept a variance of less than 1% rather than pay the labor perfection would require. As long as you have a superintendent who immediately fires anyone who says "Looks square from my house", this is a perfectly acceptable way to build things.

And, as to how the Egyptians could have made the pyramids square, they used sticks, rope, and math. Take a surveying course some time. It's absolutely shocking what you can do with sticks, rope, and math. Every city street you've ever driven on, as well as most country roads, were laid out with the same methods.
2014-05-01 04:07:33 AM  
3 votes:
They had whips, Rimmer. Massive, massive whips."
2014-05-01 02:31:34 AM  
3 votes:

mamoru: Slaves? Is the answer slaves?

Nope, the general consensus is that the folks who built the pyramids were paid laborers. After all, would you want your monument carved by a surly, unpaid slave?


Also, FTA: how the hell Stonehenge got that way.

Ball bearings.
2014-05-01 06:33:57 AM  
2 votes:

Frederick: Most likely the three pyramids of Giza were not burial chambers.


Look, I've read Alan F. Alford and Neil Freer and Zacharia Sitchin and Erich von Daniken too, and the only thing I got out of my "ancient astronaut" phase is that those guys, from a pure investigative inquiry perspective, are full of shiat.
2014-05-01 05:43:10 AM  
2 votes:

untaken_name: Now we just need to figure out how they got the pyramids so close to square without lazor beams.


a^2 + b^2 = c^2

Works *every* time.

Also an engineer.  Have spent my life getting other people to pay me to play with toys I buy with their money.
Best job in the world.  One of my designs even made SkyMall and another is well on its way to helping
to diagnose AIDS in Africa.

Happy International Worker's Day!
2014-05-01 04:29:24 AM  
2 votes:

doglover: impaler: doglover: Scientists don't really discover a whole lot. Discoveries are usually engineers and laypeople.

As an engineer, let me celebrate how fuking ignorant your anti-intellectual ass is.

Engineers don't discover, we use the discoveries of scientists to make awesome shiat.

I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the past 6,000 years and all the awesome stuff that was discovered by people who weren't limited to a single vocation in a lifetime.

For a large chunk of history, scientists were the engineers. All the best stuff was discovered by someone trying to finish a project trying something novel to solve an issue. It's only recently the "research scientist" has even existed. Before the 1700s, you were a polymath or out on your ath.


But before that priests were the scientists. The guy who made the first step pyramid was venerated as a god himself. The priestly types for thousands of years were the philosophers and the engineers. They also tightly controlled who could write etc. Again going back to ancient Egypt they had two scripts, one the hieroglyphics and the other the demotic. The beancounters using demotic wouldn't be able to read the instructions for making all those 2.3 million blocks line up so perfectly.

You can quibble about whether the were scientists-- but for example Pythagoras was so named for serving as the translator for the Pythia after training in Egypt as a priest. And he too was deified by a mystery cult.

There weren't even proper scientists before Newton's time and he was himself a classical alchemist, which delves into religious mysteries. After priests gave up total control it was guilds and such that protected secrets. Some hypothesize that a single family developed and maintained Greek fire for the Byzantines, never sharing it with anyone on orders from the Emperors, passing it down through the generations as an oral tradition. One advance, kept locked up for hundreds of years, with few innovations because that takes collaboration and openness. Many thought the same for Roman concrete, though its "secret" ended up being ash from a particular volcano and they ran out of it. After a couple of generations they simply stopped handing down the recipe (which again was an oral tradition to protect it) because nobody could use it.
2014-05-01 03:07:04 AM  
2 votes:

Frederick: Lukeonia1: mamoru: Slaves? Is the answer slaves?
Nope, the general consensus is that the folks who built the pyramids were paid laborers. After all, would you want your monument carved by a surly, unpaid slave?

The general consensus of Egyptologists; that is.  Which, frankly, isnt very credible.  Zahi Hawass is/was nothing more than an fanboy.  A lot of the Egyptologist consensus is unchallenged utter BS.

Even their own narratives are often contradictory.  Watch any show on Egypt and you will hear how they get historical information from statues, burial chambers, murals, etc.  And then later will say how successive rulers would often alter or erase written works of previous rulers.  Well, fark then -who's to say what is accurate?  Oh yeah -Egyptologists.

Here's a troubling fact Egyptologists dont like to discuss:  Ever see pics from the inside of a typical Egyptian king burial chamber (example Tutankhamen)?  All the of the wall space is covered in artwork.  All of it.  Ever see the burial chamber artwork from the 3 great pyramids?


Zahi Hawass is an attention whoring turdknocker who doesn't know even half of what he pretends to know. Plus he has a very punchable face.
2014-05-01 03:03:43 AM  
2 votes:
www.quickmeme.com
2014-04-30 10:52:08 PM  
2 votes:
1.bp.blogspot.com
2014-05-01 02:15:50 PM  
1 votes:

untaken_name: robohobo: Maybe because he's interested in the topic? Instead of, you know, interested in being a dick? FFS.

Then why didn't he post about the topic? That seems like a better route to take if you're interested in the topic. Instead of, you know, posting retarded non sequiturs. Also, I asked him, not you, dumbass. FFS.

/not interested in being a dick
//also not interested in NOT being a dick
///GFY if you don't like it.


wow you are a douchebag.
2014-05-01 11:13:40 AM  
1 votes:
SpectroBoy:

A) To pee you have to drink first.

Do you know how I know you're not an old man?
2014-05-01 10:47:07 AM  
1 votes:
Let's quit talking about how they built the pyramids and start talking about RE-building the pyramids.

I'm talkin' white limestone and gold caps and everything.  Tell me that wouldn't be awesome?
2014-05-01 09:29:42 AM  
1 votes:

DubtodaIll: J. Frank Parnell: Except the stones the great pyramids are made of weigh so much more. Like 70 or 200 tons more. Our best modern cranes can't lift the things, and we're supposed to believe they floated them many miles downriver from where they were quarried on rafts made of reeds, then put logs under them and rolled them over sand for many more miles. Yes, sand.

There are even some megalithic stones around the world which weigh over a thousand tons. Something is definitely up when we're supposed to believe primitive cultures did things we still can't.

I'm going to go ahead and assume you're just making a joke or something.  We have cranes that can lift upwards of 5.5million pounds, or roughly 2750 tons.  We can put 200ton cranes on wheels.  And power it with roughly 500hp, which is about the same force you could get out of ~3000 organized laborers.    As far as the article goes, 2.5 tons is not all that much weight and could easily be moved with enough people and enough time which the Egyptians had plenty of each.
What a 200ton crane might light like:
[image.made-in-china.com image 800x532]


A few years ago I worked in a convenience store, and various neighbourhood folks would stop by and chat for a while every day.

One of my regulars asked, one day, when I got off work and if I'd be willing to help move "some stones." I said I'd be off in a couple hours (plenty of daylight left) and I'd love to help out.

So I get to the dude's place and there's another dozen or so guys milling about. The guy who asked for my help gathered us all up and we walked a few hundred meters away to some giant masonry stones weighing 1-3 tons, used in the construction of the local canal a century prior.

So with about 14-15 guys, we moved those stones. By hand, with no mechanical assistance whatsoever, without breaking a single stone or suffering a single injury. We set them up to border his front lawn.

I have absolutely zero trouble believing the ancient Egyptians could have moved the pyramid stones - because I've done similar, on a slightly smaller scale.
2014-05-01 08:30:44 AM  
1 votes:

Ishkur: Frederick: Where is the effort to understand his work? Last I knew only on university had even studied Corral Castle and essentially gave up.

There's no mystery to Coral Castle. It was built the same way every other massive stone structure in ancient times was built: With a block and tackle, lever and fulcrum. Understanding the center of gravity is the key to moving anything (Archimedes famously boasted that he could move the entire world itself if he had a large enough lever).

I mean, let's be realistic here: If Edward Leedskalnin really could levitate rocks, then why did it take him 30 god damn years for him to build the stupid thing? For a guy with supposed magic powers, he sure took his sweet-ass time putting them to use. He only worked at night and he kept the engineering a secret because it made for a good story. It was good tourism.

But there's nothing mystical about his story at all, the "In Search Of" episode notwithstanding.


This

i1.ytimg.com
2014-05-01 08:18:50 AM  
1 votes:
For the record I miss the Art Bell program.
2014-05-01 08:09:49 AM  
1 votes:

Shakin_Haitian: impaler: doglover: Scientists don't really discover a whole lot. Discoveries are usually engineers and laypeople.

As an engineer, let me celebrate how fuking ignorant your anti-intellectual ass is.

Engineers don't discover, we use the discoveries of scientists to make awesome shiat.

They also have sky high rates of denialism, creationism, and conservatism. Probably due to the fact that if that know one or two facts about a subject, then they have enough information to figure out the entire subject.

/engineer in training.



www.smbc-comics.com
2014-05-01 08:02:19 AM  
1 votes:

Frederick: Lukeonia1: mamoru: Slaves? Is the answer slaves?
Nope, the general consensus is that the folks who built the pyramids were paid laborers. After all, would you want your monument carved by a surly, unpaid slave?

The general consensus of Egyptologists; that is.  Which, frankly, isnt very credible.  Zahi Hawass is/was nothing more than an fanboy.  A lot of the Egyptologist consensus is unchallenged utter BS.


http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/gizavillage.htm

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/08/0805_020805_giza.htm l
And so on...

It seems to me that your knowledge of Ancient Egypt is extremely limited. They've made documentaries on the worker's villages found near the great pyramids, ffs.

I think you might need to watch this:

Ancient Aliens Debunked.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j9w-i5oZqaQ
2014-05-01 07:56:02 AM  
1 votes:

Frederick: That they were. But for whom.


For themselves. And it worked. They're still remembered. And their pyramids are still farking there and will probably be there for the next hundred thousand years.
2014-05-01 07:48:48 AM  
1 votes:
Humans can do incredible things to avoid starving and death. How did the Egyptians build the pyrimids? They were told to.
2014-05-01 06:57:16 AM  
1 votes:
encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com
2014-05-01 06:30:43 AM  
1 votes:

Frederick: You really think they thought themselves as gods?


They had to in order to assert total and complete control.

Frederick: I'm sure the pharaohs knew they were not gods.


No, that comes after they die. If they did what what they had to do to ascend to divinity.

Frederick: Most likely the three pyramids of Giza were not burial chambers.


No, they were immortality preservers.

/"look upon my works, ye mighty, and despair"
2014-05-01 05:38:21 AM  
1 votes:

Ambivalence: mamoru: Slaves? Is the answer slaves?

*RTFA*

Ah. Slaves and moistening the sand ahead of the sledges on which they were dragging the huge blocks to make it (the sand) more firm.

Although, I'm sure it was probably really aliens because for some reason humans back then weren't smart enough to have been able to figure out such engineering on their own. :p

Ancient people were surprisingly observant.

Also it probably wasn't water.  It was probably urine.

(water in a desert is hard to come by.  but you have hundreds of slaves pulling shiat, give THEM the water and let them go to town "wetting the sand").


It's pretty easy to get when you have a giant river running through the middle of a desert.  Urine, on the other hand, was far too expensive to use for that sort of thing.  Only source of ammonia up til 1909 (Haber Process), which you need for textile production.
2014-05-01 05:35:10 AM  
1 votes:

Frederick: It just doesnt pass the logic test.


You do realize we're talking about religion, right? ...logic has nothing to do with it.

Frederick: We're to believe Pharaohs dedicated the entire countries wealth and resources to building pyramids as burial chambers -some 20 years supposedly in the making- and then planned no security?


What, mummy's curse isn't good enough for you? They were a superstitious people obsessed with immortality, and they believed their rulers were literal gods. Who would have the nerve to even think about desecrating their holy resting places?

Frederick: And who exactly was robbing these places?


Their descendents. They did not anticipate that cultural attitudes toward the infallible Pharaohs would change over time, especially when the early ones were so insisting on burying a sizable chunk of the country's gross domestic product with them. That left later dynasties a little cash-strapped which they resented.

The diminishing power of the Pharaohs in the First Intermediate Period meant that no one was afraid anymore of any divine retribution if they jacked the jewellery from their great-great-great-great-great-great-great-great-grandking's tomb.
2014-05-01 05:26:29 AM  
1 votes:

J. Frank Parnell: Except the stones the great pyramids are made of weigh so much more. Like 70 or 200 tons more. Our best modern cranes can't lift the things, and we're supposed to believe they floated them many miles downriver from where they were quarried on rafts made of reeds, then put logs under them and rolled them over sand for many more miles. Yes, sand.

There are even some megalithic stones around the world which weigh over a thousand tons. Something is definitely up when we're supposed to believe primitive cultures did things we still can't.


Seems a lot more believable than "A bunch of bored aliens did it for shiats and giggles", or whatever your pet theory is.
2014-05-01 05:14:17 AM  
1 votes:
Except the stones the great pyramids are made of weigh so much more. Like 70 or 200 tons more. Our best modern cranes can't lift the things, and we're supposed to believe they floated them many miles downriver from where they were quarried on rafts made of reeds, then put logs under them and rolled them over sand for many more miles. Yes, sand.

There are even some megalithic stones around the world which weigh over a thousand tons. Something is definitely up when we're supposed to believe primitive cultures did things we still can't.
2014-05-01 04:52:11 AM  
1 votes:
How did they get all the water needed across the desert?
2014-05-01 04:13:53 AM  
1 votes:

100 Watt Walrus: They had whips, Rimmer. Massive, massive whips."


Dammit, beat me too it.
2014-05-01 04:09:24 AM  
1 votes:

Lukeonia1: mamoru: Slaves? Is the answer slaves?
Nope, the general consensus is that the folks who built the pyramids were paid laborers. After all, would you want your monument carved by a surly, unpaid slave?


Slaves were as accepted a part of nature as the weather, as far back as written history dictates. The general acceptance that slavery is inherently wrong ethically is only a few hundred years old. And no, the surly unpaid slave just hauls the stone's their, your skilled artist and architect's are paid nicely though.
2014-05-01 02:56:03 AM  
1 votes:

Lukeonia1: mamoru: Slaves? Is the answer slaves?
Nope, the general consensus is that the folks who built the pyramids were paid laborers. After all, would you want your monument carved by a surly, unpaid slave?


The general consensus of Egyptologists; that is.  Which, frankly, isnt very credible.  Zahi Hawass is/was nothing more than an fanboy.  A lot of the Egyptologist consensus is unchallenged utter BS.

Even their own narratives are often contradictory.  Watch any show on Egypt and you will hear how they get historical information from statues, burial chambers, murals, etc.  And then later will say how successive rulers would often alter or erase written works of previous rulers.  Well, fark then -who's to say what is accurate?  Oh yeah -Egyptologists.

Here's a troubling fact Egyptologists dont like to discuss:  Ever see pics from the inside of a typical Egyptian king burial chamber (example Tutankhamen)?  All the of the wall space is covered in artwork.  All of it.  Ever see the burial chamber artwork from the 3 great pyramids?
2014-05-01 02:14:51 AM  
1 votes:

SauronWasFramed: Edward Leedskalnin laughs at this study


Where is the effort to understand his work?  Last I knew only on university had even studied Corral Castle and essentially gave up.
2014-05-01 02:09:22 AM  
1 votes:
Edward Leedskalnin laughs at this study
2014-05-01 01:51:08 AM  
1 votes:

impaler: doglover: Scientists don't really discover a whole lot. Discoveries are usually engineers and laypeople.

As an engineer, let me celebrate how fuking ignorant your anti-intellectual ass is.

Engineers don't discover, we use the discoveries of scientists to make awesome shiat.


I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the past 6,000 years and all the awesome stuff that was discovered by people who weren't limited to a single vocation in a lifetime.

For a large chunk of history, scientists were the engineers. All the best stuff was discovered by someone trying to finish a project trying something novel to solve an issue. It's only recently the "research scientist" has even existed. Before the 1700s, you were a polymath or out on your ath.
2014-05-01 12:53:05 AM  
1 votes:

mamoru: Slaves? Is the answer slaves?

*RTFA*

Ah. Slaves and moistening the sand ahead of the sledges on which they were dragging the huge blocks to make it (the sand) more firm.

Although, I'm sure it was probably really aliens because for some reason humans back then weren't smart enough to have been able to figure out such engineering on their own. :p


Ancient people were surprisingly observant.

Also it probably wasn't water.  It was probably urine.

(water in a desert is hard to come by.  but you have hundreds of slaves pulling shiat, give THEM the water and let them go to town "wetting the sand").
2014-05-01 12:28:37 AM  
1 votes:
Slaves? Is the answer slaves?

*RTFA*

Ah. Slaves and moistening the sand ahead of the sledges on which they were dragging the huge blocks to make it (the sand) more firm.

Although, I'm sure it was probably really aliens because for some reason humans back then weren't smart enough to have been able to figure out such engineering on their own. :p
2014-05-01 12:18:24 AM  
1 votes:
The ancient statue man appears to be masturbating.
2014-04-30 11:56:47 PM  
1 votes:
Now move 2.3 million of them in 20 years
2014-04-30 10:49:28 PM  
1 votes:
Scientists don't really discover a whole lot. Discoveries are usually engineers and laypeople.

These anal fellows just quantified what everyone who's ever been to a beach already knows: wet sand is better for stuff.
 
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