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(Gizmodo)   Scientists discover how ancient Egyptians moved 2.5 ton blocks to build pyramids, condos made of stone-a   (gizmodo.com) divider line 170
    More: Spiffy, Egyptians, Egyptologists, University of Amsterdam, pyramids, condos, pileup, Middle Kingdom, rocks  
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20623 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 May 2014 at 3:53 AM (17 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-30 10:16:04 PM
...with their minds!!!!

/oh, it was water.
 
2014-04-30 10:49:28 PM
Scientists don't really discover a whole lot. Discoveries are usually engineers and laypeople.

These anal fellows just quantified what everyone who's ever been to a beach already knows: wet sand is better for stuff.
 
2014-04-30 10:52:08 PM
1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-04-30 11:56:47 PM
Now move 2.3 million of them in 20 years
 
2014-05-01 12:18:24 AM
The ancient statue man appears to be masturbating.
 
2014-05-01 12:28:37 AM
Slaves? Is the answer slaves?

*RTFA*

Ah. Slaves and moistening the sand ahead of the sledges on which they were dragging the huge blocks to make it (the sand) more firm.

Although, I'm sure it was probably really aliens because for some reason humans back then weren't smart enough to have been able to figure out such engineering on their own. :p
 
2014-05-01 12:43:46 AM

doglover: Scientists don't really discover a whole lot. Discoveries are usually engineers and laypeople.


As an engineer, let me celebrate how fuking ignorant your anti-intellectual ass is.

Engineers don't discover, we use the discoveries of scientists to make awesome shiat.
 
2014-05-01 12:53:05 AM

mamoru: Slaves? Is the answer slaves?

*RTFA*

Ah. Slaves and moistening the sand ahead of the sledges on which they were dragging the huge blocks to make it (the sand) more firm.

Although, I'm sure it was probably really aliens because for some reason humans back then weren't smart enough to have been able to figure out such engineering on their own. :p


Ancient people were surprisingly observant.

Also it probably wasn't water.  It was probably urine.

(water in a desert is hard to come by.  but you have hundreds of slaves pulling shiat, give THEM the water and let them go to town "wetting the sand").
 
2014-05-01 01:17:59 AM
Huh... I thought they poured Jews on it
 
2014-05-01 01:51:08 AM

impaler: doglover: Scientists don't really discover a whole lot. Discoveries are usually engineers and laypeople.

As an engineer, let me celebrate how fuking ignorant your anti-intellectual ass is.

Engineers don't discover, we use the discoveries of scientists to make awesome shiat.


I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the past 6,000 years and all the awesome stuff that was discovered by people who weren't limited to a single vocation in a lifetime.

For a large chunk of history, scientists were the engineers. All the best stuff was discovered by someone trying to finish a project trying something novel to solve an issue. It's only recently the "research scientist" has even existed. Before the 1700s, you were a polymath or out on your ath.
 
2014-05-01 02:00:03 AM
media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com
Some things never change.
 
2014-05-01 02:09:22 AM
Edward Leedskalnin laughs at this study
 
2014-05-01 02:14:51 AM

SauronWasFramed: Edward Leedskalnin laughs at this study


Where is the effort to understand his work?  Last I knew only on university had even studied Corral Castle and essentially gave up.
 
2014-05-01 02:31:34 AM

mamoru: Slaves? Is the answer slaves?

Nope, the general consensus is that the folks who built the pyramids were paid laborers. After all, would you want your monument carved by a surly, unpaid slave?


Also, FTA: how the hell Stonehenge got that way.

Ball bearings.
 
2014-05-01 02:52:39 AM
How the fark did they cut them so perfectly and form them into giant weapons that destroyed planet x explain that!
 
2014-05-01 02:56:03 AM

Lukeonia1: mamoru: Slaves? Is the answer slaves?
Nope, the general consensus is that the folks who built the pyramids were paid laborers. After all, would you want your monument carved by a surly, unpaid slave?


The general consensus of Egyptologists; that is.  Which, frankly, isnt very credible.  Zahi Hawass is/was nothing more than an fanboy.  A lot of the Egyptologist consensus is unchallenged utter BS.

Even their own narratives are often contradictory.  Watch any show on Egypt and you will hear how they get historical information from statues, burial chambers, murals, etc.  And then later will say how successive rulers would often alter or erase written works of previous rulers.  Well, fark then -who's to say what is accurate?  Oh yeah -Egyptologists.

Here's a troubling fact Egyptologists dont like to discuss:  Ever see pics from the inside of a typical Egyptian king burial chamber (example Tutankhamen)?  All the of the wall space is covered in artwork.  All of it.  Ever see the burial chamber artwork from the 3 great pyramids?
 
2014-05-01 03:03:43 AM
www.quickmeme.com
 
2014-05-01 03:07:04 AM

Frederick: Lukeonia1: mamoru: Slaves? Is the answer slaves?
Nope, the general consensus is that the folks who built the pyramids were paid laborers. After all, would you want your monument carved by a surly, unpaid slave?

The general consensus of Egyptologists; that is.  Which, frankly, isnt very credible.  Zahi Hawass is/was nothing more than an fanboy.  A lot of the Egyptologist consensus is unchallenged utter BS.

Even their own narratives are often contradictory.  Watch any show on Egypt and you will hear how they get historical information from statues, burial chambers, murals, etc.  And then later will say how successive rulers would often alter or erase written works of previous rulers.  Well, fark then -who's to say what is accurate?  Oh yeah -Egyptologists.

Here's a troubling fact Egyptologists dont like to discuss:  Ever see pics from the inside of a typical Egyptian king burial chamber (example Tutankhamen)?  All the of the wall space is covered in artwork.  All of it.  Ever see the burial chamber artwork from the 3 great pyramids?


Zahi Hawass is an attention whoring turdknocker who doesn't know even half of what he pretends to know. Plus he has a very punchable face.
 
2014-05-01 04:07:12 AM

Ambivalence: mamoru: Slaves? Is the answer slaves?

*RTFA*

Ah. Slaves and moistening the sand ahead of the sledges on which they were dragging the huge blocks to make it (the sand) more firm.

Although, I'm sure it was probably really aliens because for some reason humans back then weren't smart enough to have been able to figure out such engineering on their own. :p

Ancient people were surprisingly observant.

Also it probably wasn't water.  It was probably urine.

(water in a desert is hard to come by.  but you have hundreds of slaves pulling shiat, give THEM the water and let them go to town "wetting the sand").


My guess is low-grade olive oil.
 
2014-05-01 04:07:29 AM

Frederick: Where is the effort to understand his work? Last I knew only on university had even studied Corral Castle and essentially gave up.


There's no mystery to Coral Castle. It was built the same way every other massive stone structure in ancient times was built: With a block and tackle, lever and fulcrum. Understanding the center of gravity is the key to moving anything (Archimedes famously boasted that he could move the entire world itself if he had a large enough lever).

I mean, let's be realistic here: If Edward Leedskalnin really could levitate rocks, then why did it take him 30 god damn years for him to build the stupid thing? For a guy with supposed magic powers, he sure took his sweet-ass time putting them to use. He only worked at night and he kept the engineering a secret because it made for a good story. It was good tourism.

But there's nothing mystical about his story at all, the "In Search Of" episode notwithstanding.
 
2014-05-01 04:07:33 AM
They had whips, Rimmer. Massive, massive whips."
 
2014-05-01 04:08:14 AM

impaler: doglover: Scientists don't really discover a whole lot. Discoveries are usually engineers and laypeople.

As an engineer, let me celebrate how fuking ignorant your anti-intellectual ass is.

Engineers don't discover, we use the discoveries of scientists to make awesome shiat.


Thank you, impaler. It needed to be said and deserves to be repeated
 
2014-05-01 04:09:15 AM
Only ancient astronauts could have built the pyramids.
 
2014-05-01 04:09:24 AM

Lukeonia1: mamoru: Slaves? Is the answer slaves?
Nope, the general consensus is that the folks who built the pyramids were paid laborers. After all, would you want your monument carved by a surly, unpaid slave?


Slaves were as accepted a part of nature as the weather, as far back as written history dictates. The general acceptance that slavery is inherently wrong ethically is only a few hundred years old. And no, the surly unpaid slave just hauls the stone's their, your skilled artist and architect's are paid nicely though.
 
2014-05-01 04:09:37 AM

Danger Avoid Death: Frederick: Lukeonia1: mamoru:

Zahi Hawass is an attention whoring turdknocker who doesn't know even half of what he pretends to know. Plus he has a very punchable face.


Thank you! I watched two minutes of the TV show he made a couple years ago. All he did was attention whore for the cameras to pimp his book and verbally abuse female staffers.

/Fark him
 
2014-05-01 04:11:59 AM

Lukeonia1: Nope, the general consensus is that the folks who built the pyramids were paid laborers. After all, would you want your monument carved by a surly, unpaid slave?


It's not that they were paid laborers, it's that the Nile river floods like clockwork for three months every year. So you have this massive agrarian population who literally have nothing to do, waiting for the waters to recede so they could plant/harvest their crops.

Well, the Pharaohs found something for them to do.
 
2014-05-01 04:13:53 AM

100 Watt Walrus: They had whips, Rimmer. Massive, massive whips."


Dammit, beat me too it.
 
2014-05-01 04:14:55 AM
Now we just need to figure out how they got the pyramids so close to square without lazor beams.
 
2014-05-01 04:15:47 AM

Ishkur: Frederick: Where is the effort to understand his work? Last I knew only on university had even studied Corral Castle and essentially gave up.

There's no mystery to Coral Castle. It was built the same way every other massive stone structure in ancient times was built: With a block and tackle, lever and fulcrum. Understanding the center of gravity is the key to moving anything (Archimedes famously boasted that he could move the entire world itself if he had a large enough lever).

I mean, let's be realistic here: If Edward Leedskalnin really could levitate rocks, then why did it take him 30 god damn years for him to build the stupid thing? For a guy with supposed magic powers, he sure took his sweet-ass time putting them to use. He only worked at night and he kept the engineering a secret because it made for a good story. It was good tourism.

But there's nothing mystical about his story at all, the "In Search Of" episode notwithstanding.


Yes, those are the principle methods.  You did leave out he did it all by himself.
 
2014-05-01 04:15:50 AM
I feel I should point out that the headline references a humorous song by the late great Steve Martin from about 40 years ago.

It was funny then and we all laughed and went about our business.

If Steve Martin were here on Fark today, he'd probably frown on this.
 
2014-05-01 04:21:03 AM

mamoru: Slaves? Is the answer slaves?

*RTFA*

Ah. Slaves and moistening the sand ahead of the sledges on which they were dragging the huge blocks to make it (the sand) more firm.

Although, I'm sure it was probably really aliens because for some reason humans back then weren't smart enough to have been able to figure out such engineering on their own. :p


Slavery: It gets shiat done.
 
2014-05-01 04:26:29 AM

illannoyin: Danger Avoid Death: Frederick: Lukeonia1: mamoru:

Zahi Hawass is an attention whoring turdknocker who doesn't know even half of what he pretends to know. Plus he has a very punchable face.

Thank you! I watched two minutes of the TV show he made a couple years ago. All he did was attention whore for the cameras to pimp his book and verbally abuse female staffers.

/Fark him


I've seen him do the same thing. Real prince of a guy. I regularly tape documentaries on Egypt, and if I see him in it I'll fast forward through his parts. If he's hosting the thing, or is in too much of it, I'll just delete it without bothering to watch the rest of it. I can't stand that asshole.
 
2014-05-01 04:29:24 AM

doglover: impaler: doglover: Scientists don't really discover a whole lot. Discoveries are usually engineers and laypeople.

As an engineer, let me celebrate how fuking ignorant your anti-intellectual ass is.

Engineers don't discover, we use the discoveries of scientists to make awesome shiat.

I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the past 6,000 years and all the awesome stuff that was discovered by people who weren't limited to a single vocation in a lifetime.

For a large chunk of history, scientists were the engineers. All the best stuff was discovered by someone trying to finish a project trying something novel to solve an issue. It's only recently the "research scientist" has even existed. Before the 1700s, you were a polymath or out on your ath.


But before that priests were the scientists. The guy who made the first step pyramid was venerated as a god himself. The priestly types for thousands of years were the philosophers and the engineers. They also tightly controlled who could write etc. Again going back to ancient Egypt they had two scripts, one the hieroglyphics and the other the demotic. The beancounters using demotic wouldn't be able to read the instructions for making all those 2.3 million blocks line up so perfectly.

You can quibble about whether the were scientists-- but for example Pythagoras was so named for serving as the translator for the Pythia after training in Egypt as a priest. And he too was deified by a mystery cult.

There weren't even proper scientists before Newton's time and he was himself a classical alchemist, which delves into religious mysteries. After priests gave up total control it was guilds and such that protected secrets. Some hypothesize that a single family developed and maintained Greek fire for the Byzantines, never sharing it with anyone on orders from the Emperors, passing it down through the generations as an oral tradition. One advance, kept locked up for hundreds of years, with few innovations because that takes collaboration and openness. Many thought the same for Roman concrete, though its "secret" ended up being ash from a particular volcano and they ran out of it. After a couple of generations they simply stopped handing down the recipe (which again was an oral tradition to protect it) because nobody could use it.
 
2014-05-01 04:31:38 AM

untaken_name: Now we just need to figure out how they got the pyramids so close to square without lazor beams.


I have absolutely no knowledge of the pyramids but I'm gonna go with maybe counting? You can make a bunch of smaller squares that you know are square, count them out on the x and y axis?
 
2014-05-01 04:33:11 AM
slaveryitgetsshiatdonetshirt.jpg
 
2014-05-01 04:33:47 AM

Frederick: Here's a troubling fact Egyptologists dont like to discuss: Ever see pics from the inside of a typical Egyptian king burial chamber (example Tutankhamen)? All the of the wall space is covered in artwork. All of it. Ever see the burial chamber artwork from the 3 great pyramids?


And here we come to the problem when people talk about Ancient Egypt: They keep addressing it as if it was one contiguous, unbroken civilization that was unchanging and everlasting, and that it was the same way at the end that it was at the beginning, with no real cultural changes, values or attitude differences. This is wrong.

Ancient Egypt lasted 3000 years! You have any idea how farking long that is? It lasted through 3 Ages, Six major periods and over 30 dynasties. Its religion, culture, and politics constantly changed with the interests and dynamics of its leaders. Some gods that were important at the beginning fell out of favor later on, and they were heavily influenced by their neighbors especially considering that they were occupied by foreigners for nearly 1/3 of their existence.

To address your point, the Pyramid of Khufu and the tomb of Tutankhamen are separated by over 1300 years of cultural drift. We can't even get languages to last that long, what makes you think King Tut's people valued the same things as Khufu's people? Why would you assume that the Old Kingdom ought to draw all over their walls just because the Middle Kingdom did? The Old Kingdom was all about the pyramids. They built over 100 of them. That stopped during the Intermediate Period -- some 600 years later, before even Hammurabi.

The Middle Kingdom was all about the Valley of the Kings because they learned that putting their dead Pharaohs with all their stuff in giant above-ground mausoleums was pretty stupid because it made them easy targets for graverobbers. The new hotness was to try and hide their dead kings and even boobytrap the tombs. The New Kingdom was even more non-descript: Some Pharoahs were just buried with all their stuff in a hillside, with nary a marker or any indication that they were there. That still didn't stop the graverobbers from finding them.

Egypt is not one monolithic entity. It evolved and changed over time like the world around it, and to assert that parts of it don't look like other parts without recognizing the immense timespan between them is short-changing the mutability of Egyptian religion and culture in the ancient world.
 
2014-05-01 04:35:45 AM

Frederick: Yes, those are the principle methods. You did leave out he did it all by himself.


Well, yes. If he had help, he probably could have had it done in 10 years or so.
 
2014-05-01 04:38:46 AM

BolloxReader: doglover: impaler: doglover: Scientists don't really discover a whole lot. Discoveries are usually engineers and laypeople.

As an engineer, let me celebrate how fuking ignorant your anti-intellectual ass is.

Engineers don't discover, we use the discoveries of scientists to make awesome shiat.

I'm sorry, I can't hear you over the past 6,000 years and all the awesome stuff that was discovered by people who weren't limited to a single vocation in a lifetime.

For a large chunk of history, scientists were the engineers. All the best stuff was discovered by someone trying to finish a project trying something novel to solve an issue. It's only recently the "research scientist" has even existed. Before the 1700s, you were a polymath or out on your ath.

But before that priests were the scientists. The guy who made the first step pyramid was venerated as a god himself. The priestly types for thousands of years were the philosophers and the engineers. They also tightly controlled who could write etc. Again going back to ancient Egypt they had two scripts, one the hieroglyphics and the other the demotic. The beancounters using demotic wouldn't be able to read the instructions for making all those 2.3 million blocks line up so perfectly.

You can quibble about whether the were scientists-- but for example Pythagoras was so named for serving as the translator for the Pythia after training in Egypt as a priest. And he too was deified by a mystery cult.

There weren't even proper scientists before Newton's time and he was himself a classical alchemist, which delves into religious mysteries. After priests gave up total control it was guilds and such that protected secrets. Some hypothesize that a single family developed and maintained Greek fire for the Byzantines, never sharing it with anyone on orders from the Emperors, passing it down through the generations as an oral tradition. One advance, kept locked up for hundreds of years, with few innovations because that takes colla ...


Exactly. Laypeople.

Science is new, but not as novel as you think.

I particularly hate the biologists who "discover" animals that have been part of a foriegn country's culture forever. Seriously guys, there's other verbs. Use 'em.

This "discovery" was carved into the freaking wall of the pyramid itself for 1000's of years. F- on novelty, A+ on fluid dynamics as it applies to particulate silica in relation to loads in excess of one short ton.
 
2014-05-01 04:39:26 AM
And I also must echo the sentiment that Zahi Hawess is an attention whoring douchelord. Dude actually thinks he's directly descended from the Pharaohs themselves for crying out loud. No you're not, you self-important twit. You're a Mameluk Arab like everyone else in your country. The Ancient Egyptian bloodline has pretty much been diluted.
 
2014-05-01 04:40:31 AM

zarker: untaken_name: Now we just need to figure out how they got the pyramids so close to square without lazor beams.

I have absolutely no knowledge of the pyramids but I'm gonna go with maybe counting? You can make a bunch of smaller squares that you know are square, count them out on the x and y axis?


Obviously. Why would you even bother responding when it's clear you don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about? The Great Pyramid covers an area of 13 acres. The sides are square to within 58mm on each side. That is INSANE. Even with laser transits, we can't get buildings only one square city block in area that true.
 
2014-05-01 04:42:25 AM
2.5 tons? Maybe the smaller ones at the top.
 
2014-05-01 04:44:41 AM

untaken_name: zarker: untaken_name: Now we just need to figure out how they got the pyramids so close to square without lazor beams.

I have absolutely no knowledge of the pyramids but I'm gonna go with maybe counting? You can make a bunch of smaller squares that you know are square, count them out on the x and y axis?

Obviously. Why would you even bother responding when it's clear you don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about? The Great Pyramid covers an area of 13 acres. The sides are square to within 58mm on each side. That is INSANE. Even with laser transits, we can't get buildings only one square city block in area that true.


Maybe because he's interested in the topic? Instead of, you know, interested in being a dick? FFS.
 
2014-05-01 04:47:03 AM

gfid: If Steve Martin were here on Fark today, he'd probably frown on this.


Well, ex-CUUUUUUUUUUUUSE ME!
 
2014-05-01 04:50:19 AM

Ishkur: The Middle Kingdom was all about the Valley of the Kings because they learned that putting their dead Pharaohs with all their stuff in giant above-ground mausoleums was pretty stupid because it made them easy targets for graverobbers.


It just doesnt pass the logic test.  We're to believe Pharaohs dedicated the entire countries wealth and resources to building pyramids as burial chambers -some 20 years supposedly in the making- and then planned no security?  And who exactly was robbing these places?  Good god it should take an army....

The established narrative just doesnt pass the logic test.
 
2014-05-01 04:51:24 AM

untaken_name: zarker: untaken_name: Now we just need to figure out how they got the pyramids so close to square without lazor beams.

I have absolutely no knowledge of the pyramids but I'm gonna go with maybe counting? You can make a bunch of smaller squares that you know are square, count them out on the x and y axis?

Obviously. Why would you even bother responding when it's clear you don't have the slightest clue what you're talking about? The Great Pyramid covers an area of 13 acres. The sides are square to within 58mm on each side. That is INSANE. Even with laser transits, we can't get buildings only one square city block in area that true.


Maybe they got really lucky
 
2014-05-01 04:52:11 AM
How did they get all the water needed across the desert?
 
2014-05-01 04:54:29 AM

robohobo: Maybe because he's interested in the topic? Instead of, you know, interested in being a dick? FFS.


Then why didn't he post about the topic? That seems like a better route to take if you're interested in the topic. Instead of, you know, posting retarded non sequiturs. Also, I asked him, not you, dumbass. FFS.

/not interested in being a dick
//also not interested in NOT being a dick
///GFY if you don't like it.
 
2014-05-01 04:56:29 AM
Ugh... I HATE these news stories like this.  They're all big on stories and short on actual news.  These A-holes didn't discovered how they did it... they figured how they MIGHT have done it.

And you know in all the time I've ever heard anyone talk about the sheer logistics of how in the hell this would be accomplished.  Does anyone have an idea just how much food it would take to feed that many 'workers'?  How about housing?  Tools and materials?  Sanitation for the workers.  I shudder to think of how much crap that many slaves would make in a day.  And hell this IS the burning desert we're talking about here.  Where did all that hardware come from?  There's not exactly a PharaohMart out there were you can just buy all that stuff.
 
2014-05-01 04:59:26 AM

untaken_name: robohobo: Maybe because he's interested in the topic? Instead of, you know, interested in being a dick? FFS.

Then why didn't he post about the topic? That seems like a better route to take if you're interested in the topic. Instead of, you know, posting retarded non sequiturs. Also, I asked him, not you, dumbass. FFS.

/not interested in being a dick
//also not interested in NOT being a dick
///GFY if you don't like it.


Anyway, regarding your post, how the fark can we NOT make buildings absolutely true?
 
2014-05-01 05:14:17 AM
Except the stones the great pyramids are made of weigh so much more. Like 70 or 200 tons more. Our best modern cranes can't lift the things, and we're supposed to believe they floated them many miles downriver from where they were quarried on rafts made of reeds, then put logs under them and rolled them over sand for many more miles. Yes, sand.

There are even some megalithic stones around the world which weigh over a thousand tons. Something is definitely up when we're supposed to believe primitive cultures did things we still can't.
 
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