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(CBS New York)   And the Long Island teen who was accepted at all 8 eight Ivy League schools finally picks _______   (newyork.cbslocal.com ) divider line
    More: Followup, Ivy League, Long Island, Kwasi Enin, Yale University, Ivy League schools, chamber music, mathematical problem, schools  
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3984 clicks; posted to Geek » on 30 Apr 2014 at 7:24 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-30 11:22:14 PM  

eraser8: AliceBToklasLives: JohnBigBootay: jso2897: Wow. The hate for this kid is incredibly........revealing.

No shiat. He's one hell of a lot more mature and accomplished than I was at his age. Hell, he's more accomplished than I am now. I for one salute any son of first generation immigrants who has done as well as he has.

Same here.  That's what worries me.  Some of those folks succeed because they are winners and just better than the rest of us.  But many of them crash and burn when they get to college.

/hope that's not what happens but it's definitely a thing.

I'm not sure what about the guy makes you think that.

Highly selective schools are very careful in their admissions decisions.  If the Ivies had any doubt whatever about his abilities, he wouldn't have been admitted.


I'm sure they have no doubt about his abiliies and neither do I. But how will he react to not being #1 - for the first time in his life? Some deal with it just fine, one is #1, and some fall apart.

In other words, having no red flags is itself a red flag. Healthy teenagers fark up and they fark up quite a bit.
 
2014-04-30 11:26:49 PM  

AliceBToklasLives: I'm sure they have no doubt about his abiliies and neither do I. But how will he react to not being #1 - for the first time in his life? Some deal with it just fine, one is #1, and some fall apart.

In other words, having no red flags is itself a red flag. Healthy teenagers fark up and they fark up quite a bit.


He was #11 in his class, so...
 
2014-04-30 11:29:40 PM  
You think the admissions officer from Cornell thought they were in the running? I'll bet he/she did.
 
2014-04-30 11:29:59 PM  

Sirsky: Surely if it's so common, you can point me to a source on that "1000 other kids" figure. Or is it just that since a black kid did it, it must just be that common, right? Considering that further up you were talking about how he might "snap a few minds out of a self defeating ghetto culture mindset" you've got quite a bit of nerve acting insulted on anyone's behalf, especially since you've made it a point that this particular kid was well off (and as such likely never sniffed a ghetto or any of this self-defeating culture that I'm sure you know so much about).

Is there something else you know about the Negro that you'd like to share?


Lets do the math.

Three million students who take the SAT test each year.

http://www.ask.com/question/how-many-students-take-the-sat-each-year

98th percentile would mean that 98% of students scored below his score. That's 60,000 students who can match his test scores. Of those, maybe half are in the top ten of their class, and the rest probably hover around that area, except for the gifted but unmotivated students. That's 30,000 who are in the top ten, and of those, if I said 20% play a sport, I'd be probably safe. So that's 6,000. Another 20% who also play an instrument? 1,200. Of course these numbers are completely pulled out of my ass. But I think 20% is modestly safe on both counts, especially considering helicopter parents.


Sirsky: Considering that further up you were talking about how he might "snap a few minds out of a self defeating ghetto culture mindset" you've got quite a bit of nerve acting insulted on anyone's behalf,


My note here is that I've lived in poor urban neighborhoods. Black kids don't have a whole lot of heroes to look up to. And a lot of scholastic achievement is frowned down upon as turning white. A crab-bucket mentality. That's what I mean.
 
2014-04-30 11:36:56 PM  

Kinek: I would also like to note that the ability to apply to every Ivy has something to do with skin color. When I applied to Cornell's Agriculture program, the cost was around 100 dollars (not counting test score sending, transcript sending, etc), unless you were female, native american, could demonstrate financial hardship (read: over 25k in the hole), or were of a set of ethnic characteristics.


If true, Cornell is really unusual.  Or, you're describing a very recent phenomenon.  None of the schools I applied to offered a blanket fee waiver for minorities or females.  In fact, after googling for the kind of fee waivers you claimed, I came up empty...at least for undergraduates.

Kinek: This kid accomplished the same as about 1000 other kids in the US.


Perhaps 1000 others kids could have done it.  But, the claim that about 1000 other kids were actually admitted to all 8 Ivies this year is just absurd on its face.
 
2014-04-30 11:40:01 PM  

Sirsky: AliceBToklasLives: I'm sure they have no doubt about his abiliies and neither do I. But how will he react to not being #1 - for the first time in his life? Some deal with it just fine, one is #1, and some fall apart.

In other words, having no red flags is itself a red flag. Healthy teenagers fark up and they fark up quite a bit.

He was #11 in his class, so...


Yeah I guess #11 is not quite #1 - and bodes well for him.

Again, I hope he does make the adjustment to college and then the adjustment to life after school - I'm certainly not rooting against him.
 
2014-04-30 11:42:59 PM  

AliceBToklasLives: I'm sure they have no doubt about his abiliies and neither do I. But how will he react to not being #1 - for the first time in his life? Some deal with it just fine, one is #1, and some fall apart.


He'll be with about 1,300 other kids who are in the same boat.  And, considering Yale graduates 96% of students in five years and 98% in six, I just don't understand the concern.
 
2014-04-30 11:53:06 PM  

eraser8: If true, Cornell is really unusual.  Or, you're describing a very recent phenomenon.  None of the schools I applied to offered a blanket fee waiver for minorities or females.  In fact, after googling for the kind of fee waivers you claimed, I came up empty...at least for undergraduates.



I did a check, and it seems that for fee waivers for undergraduates you must go through the NACA board. No idea for the requirements there. But you're right. For undergraduates there is no blanket dismissal.

This:  http://www.gradschool.cornell.edu/admissions/fees is what I remember.

So I'm wrong on that point, or at least that point does not add to the media hype.


eraser8: Perhaps 1000 others kids could have done it.  But, the claim that about 1000 other kids were actually admitted to all 8 Ivies this year is just absurd on its face.


How precisely would we know otherwise? Yes, not everybody applies to all 8 Ivies, but if the only thing standing between someone and media coverage is 500-700 bucks, I would expect there'd be achievers like this plastered over CNN every spring.
 
2014-05-01 12:16:01 AM  

Kinek: eraser8: Perhaps 1000 others kids could have done it.  But, the claim that about 1000 other kids were actually admitted to all 8 Ivies this year is just absurd on its face.


How precisely would we know otherwise? Yes, not everybody applies to all 8 Ivies, but if the only thing standing between someone and media coverage is 500-700 bucks, I would expect there'd be achievers like this plastered over CNN every spring.


First, it's unusual for anyone to apply to all 8 schools.

But, for those who do apply to all 8, we just need to look at the admissions numbers:  five Ivies have restrictive early decision, which accounts for a very large proportion of their admitted classes.  Considering each school has a total number of admits of only a few thousand, you'd basically have to have nearly the entire regular admissions pool at Penn and Columbia and Dartmouth, etc. pulling an Ivy Royal Flush to get anywhere close to 1000 students doing what this young man did.  It's just not believable.
 
2014-05-01 12:23:29 AM  

eraser8: Kinek: eraser8: Perhaps 1000 others kids could have done it.  But, the claim that about 1000 other kids were actually admitted to all 8 Ivies this year is just absurd on its face.


How precisely would we know otherwise? Yes, not everybody applies to all 8 Ivies, but if the only thing standing between someone and media coverage is 500-700 bucks, I would expect there'd be achievers like this plastered over CNN every spring.

First, it's unusual for anyone to apply to all 8 schools.

But, for those who do apply to all 8, we just need to look at the admissions numbers:  five Ivies have restrictive early decision, which accounts for a very large proportion of their admitted classes.  Considering each school has a total number of admits of only a few thousand, you'd basically have to have nearly the entire regular admissions pool at Penn and Columbia and Dartmouth, etc. pulling an Ivy Royal Flush to get anywhere close to 1000 students doing what this young man did.  It's just not believable.


You're assuming that the chances of getting into any given Ivy are uncorrelated with the chances of getting into any other Ivy. Which isn't the case. The likelihood that an applicant accepted at Columbia being equally qualified to study at Dartmouth is most likely incredibly high, compared to the numbers that apply to either school, considering their judging on many of the same standards.
 
2014-05-01 12:24:05 AM  

Kinek: their


They're
 
2014-05-01 12:54:40 AM  

Kinek: You're assuming that the chances of getting into any given Ivy are uncorrelated with the chances of getting into any other Ivy. Which isn't the case. The likelihood that an applicant accepted at Columbia being equally qualified to study at Dartmouth is most likely incredibly high, compared to the numbers that apply to either school, considering their judging on many of the same standards.


You're missing the point.

Under restrictive early decision, applicants are bound not only to enroll in the offering school, they're required to withdraw their applications from all other schools.

Let's take Dartmouth as an example.  This year, Dartmouth accepted  2,220 applicants.  469 of the admits were early decision (so, those 469 COULD NOT HAVE been accepted to all 8 Ivies).  That leaves 1,731 regular decision applicants.  Do you really believe that 60% of those kids applied to and were accepted at all 8 Ivies?  It strains credulity.

Your point that "[t]he likelihood that an applicant accepted at Columbia being equally qualified to study at Dartmouth is most likely incredibly high" is irrelevant.  "Qualified to study" doesn't translate into "being offered admission."  Highly selective schools aren't just looking at individuals...they're looking to put together classes.  And, each school has a unique way of making choices in applicant pools that almost certainly contain far more "qualified" kids than than they have places to admit.

Lots of times, these choices don't make much sense to someone looking in from the outside.  Because of all that, it's really unusual for anyone to be offered a place at all 8 Ivies.  Frankly, I don't understand why anyone would even bother applying to all 8.
 
2014-05-01 12:59:30 AM  

NeoCortex42: Sirsky: NeoCortex42: Sirsky: It is. And it's sad. He overachieves and people won't give him his due, chalking it up to affirmative action

But why is he due anything?  I mean, good for him, but he was given his due by being accepted. Making it a news story is just attention whoring.

I wasn't aware he wrote these stories himself, or invited himself to be interviewed by the news. Your beef is with the media, not with him, and if you feel the need to diminish his accomplishments to make that point, then I have to question whether your beef really is with the media or if it's rooted in something else.

My only beef is with the coverage. I have nothing against him. Like I said, good for him. I just don't think he is due any special recognition like he's getting. It says in the article that he was 11th in his class. Why no coverage of any of the top ten?  He got into college. Great.


Often, the top few are those who game the system, and plot their schedules to maximize GPA. My younger brother's HS experience provides a good example (can't use mine, went to a different school and we didn't have rankings, not that I would have been at the top of them anyway). Every single grade he got was an A, but he did a few things that made him down at #13 or whatever- he took band, which was honors rather than AP, so less credit on the weighted scale, and he took AP Physics, which was two class periods rather than one, meaning he couldn't take two AP classes in the same amount of time instead. A few other similar things too. By broadening his experiences and taking tougher courses, he cost himself any shot at being top of his class, despite the fact that he had absolutely perfect grades. Which he was fine with- the teachers and principal all knew what was up, and he got his name on a few academic trophies. Conversely, the Valedictorian came from a family where every single child was at least salutatorian- amazingly overbearing parents, and they plotted out every class tactically. She was a spectacular violinist, but never played in the school Orchestra, because that would bring down her GPA. Ect. Nice girl, but she had a spectacular amount of pressure on her, and was never given room to really develop her own personality and interests. My brother, on the other hand, was probably the best student in his high school class, and everybody knew it. Colleges knew that too, and well, he had his pick.

Class rankings are not the be all and end all, especially at a big school where the exact ranking of the top 20 or so is determined by who gamed the system and who didn't. The best student in the class isn't always the one ranked at the top.

\why yes, I do like to brag about him.
\\I'm proud, even if this is anonymous.
 
2014-05-01 01:00:40 AM  

BalugaJoe: Screw him.


You, sir, have the boorish manners of a Yalie!
 
2014-05-01 01:12:58 AM  

StopLurkListen: "Debt".  He picks soul-crushing debt. Next question.


Ivies at the level of Yale typically cover most of tuition in the form of grant-based aid, unless the parents are super-rich (and so probably won't incur debt anyway).  The schools are loaded and don't need to get their income from tuition.
 
2014-05-01 01:35:13 AM  
2.bp.blogspot.com

Only the best and brightest go to Yale.
 
2014-05-01 01:52:04 AM  
Good choice, Yale has the best music opportunities among the Ivies.
 
2014-05-01 03:00:39 AM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: "The visit days last week was incredible," Enin told reporters, including WCBS 880′s Sophia Hall.

So, you don't even have to be "well-spoken" to get an affirmative action acceptance to the Ivy League now?


This, without the affirmative action rhetoric.
 
2014-05-01 07:59:34 AM  
U of Phoenix
 
2014-05-01 08:57:13 AM  

Sirsky: Seriously, can you not understand why the son of first generation immigrants being accepted to every Ivy League school might make for a good human interest story


On its surface yes.
I think immigrant I think guy coming here and building a life from scratch struggling to give his kids the best so they can do better. When they are both doctors it is a bit of a different story. Not a dig on the parents or what they accomplished, not a dig on the kid, just saying it is dramatically different than what most people picture.

Kinek: All of these tell me nothing about this person, other than he's full of shiat. Should have gone to Harvard for Law


That is some grade A BS from a HS'er though.
 
2014-05-01 09:29:43 AM  

Kinek: Sirsky: Surely if it's so common, you can point me to a source on that "1000 other kids" figure. Or is it just that since a black kid did it, it must just be that common, right? Considering that further up you were talking about how he might "snap a few minds out of a self defeating ghetto culture mindset" you've got quite a bit of nerve acting insulted on anyone's behalf, especially since you've made it a point that this particular kid was well off (and as such likely never sniffed a ghetto or any of this self-defeating culture that I'm sure you know so much about).

Is there something else you know about the Negro that you'd like to share?

Lets do the math.

Three million students who take the SAT test each year.

http://www.ask.com/question/how-many-students-take-the-sat-each-year

98th percentile would mean that 98% of students scored below his score. That's 60,000 students who can match his test scores. Of those, maybe half are in the top ten of their class, and the rest probably hover around that area, except for the gifted but unmotivated students. That's 30,000 who are in the top ten, and of those, if I said 20% play a sport, I'd be probably safe. So that's 6,000. Another 20% who also play an instrument? 1,200. Of course these numbers are completely pulled out of my ass. But I think 20% is modestly safe on both counts, especially considering helicopter parents.


Sirsky: Considering that further up you were talking about how he might "snap a few minds out of a self defeating ghetto culture mindset" you've got quite a bit of nerve acting insulted on anyone's behalf,

My note here is that I've lived in poor urban neighborhoods. Black kids don't have a whole lot of heroes to look up to. And a lot of scholastic achievement is frowned down upon as turning white. A crab-bucket mentality. That's what I mean.


Let's just hope that this kid does go into medicine, and someday discovers a way to ease the pain from all that sand up in your vagina.
 
2014-05-01 09:45:52 AM  
An enviable dilemma comes to an end for a Long Island high school senior.

White people problems.
 
2014-05-01 10:20:29 AM  

SevenizGud: Benevolent Misanthrope: "The visit days last week was incredible," Enin told reporters, including WCBS 880′s Sophia Hall.

So, you don't even have to be "well-spoken" to get an affirmative action acceptance to the Ivy League now?

This, without the affirmative action rhetoric.


I was riffing on the usual racist non-compliment of "well-spoken", but I now see it made me look like a racist idiot.  Mea culpa.
 
2014-05-01 12:40:41 PM  
There are several things on which I can comment.

1. The positive correlation between acceptance at different top schools is less strong than people think.  If you've got a perfect application and test scores, you have, at best, a 50-50 chance at any of them.  Plenty of students with virtually the same profile as this kid get rejected from one or more of these schools, which is why so many kids apply to a bunch of them.  You're not likely to get into one, but you're likely to get into at least one if you apply to all of the Ivies and Stanford and Duke and Chicago and so on.

2. That said, being a music guy with good grades helps him a lot.  Music students at top schools usually have much lower academic qualifications than the other non-athletes.  That also sets him apart from the usual pack of qualified students.  He doesn't have to be better than the other candidates, and he's not.  He just makes for a better fit, because he fulfills a niche that all of those schools want to fill.

3. I agree with those who say that hardly anyone puts in a serious application to all eight.  I had to withdraw from Princeton and a few others because I applied early at a different school.  I also didn't bother with Columbia, Dartmouth, or Brown.

4.  The idea of getting admitted to all of the Ivy League schools is interesting, but it's a bit artificial.  If the article lists a few outside of the Ivy League, such a Duke, you can bet he was rejected at, for example, Stanford.  His rich parents apparently wanted him to maximize his chances and so sent applications everywhere, and we're reading about the shiniest pattern that showed up in the results.

Basically, the kid is good, but he's not some once-in-a-generation supergenius.  This story keeps circulating because it's a statistical anomaly.  It's something that doesn't happen often, but when it does happen, the reason for it isn't that the kid is better than his competition.  It's also not because of some lame "only because of Affirmative Action" reason, either.  It's not even really something the kid himself accomplished.  His actions and student profile were virtually identical to those of most kids applying to Ivy League schools, except for the fact that he has enough money to apply to all of them (there's a reason I didn't apply at Brown and a few others) and he didn't do Early Admission.  The anomaly comes in from the side of the admissions people, who all happened to get the same result on the coin flip that determines admission for top candidates.

Good for him, of course, but he's neither better nor worse than his classmates.
 
2014-05-01 01:35:38 PM  

ckccfa: Kinek: Sirsky: Surely if it's so common, you can point me to a source on that "1000 other kids" figure. Or is it just that since a black kid did it, it must just be that common, right? Considering that further up you were talking about how he might "snap a few minds out of a self defeating ghetto culture mindset" you've got quite a bit of nerve acting insulted on anyone's behalf, especially since you've made it a point that this particular kid was well off (and as such likely never sniffed a ghetto or any of this self-defeating culture that I'm sure you know so much about).

Is there something else you know about the Negro that you'd like to share?

Lets do the math.

Three million students who take the SAT test each year.

http://www.ask.com/question/how-many-students-take-the-sat-each-year

98th percentile would mean that 98% of students scored below his score. That's 60,000 students who can match his test scores. Of those, maybe half are in the top ten of their class, and the rest probably hover around that area, except for the gifted but unmotivated students. That's 30,000 who are in the top ten, and of those, if I said 20% play a sport, I'd be probably safe. So that's 6,000. Another 20% who also play an instrument? 1,200. Of course these numbers are completely pulled out of my ass. But I think 20% is modestly safe on both counts, especially considering helicopter parents.


Sirsky: Considering that further up you were talking about how he might "snap a few minds out of a self defeating ghetto culture mindset" you've got quite a bit of nerve acting insulted on anyone's behalf,

My note here is that I've lived in poor urban neighborhoods. Black kids don't have a whole lot of heroes to look up to. And a lot of scholastic achievement is frowned down upon as turning white. A crab-bucket mentality. That's what I mean.

Let's just hope that this kid does go into medicine, and someday discovers a way to ease the pain from all that sand up in your vagina.


Maybe he'll go into forestry and figure why you have a conifer up your ass.
 
2014-05-01 02:19:51 PM  
Did Montgomery Burns ever fund that International Airport for Yale?
 
2014-05-01 03:55:42 PM  
His nose?
 
2014-05-01 03:57:06 PM  

drjekel_mrhyde: Pronounced in Wisconsin: Long Island tee


No it isn't.

**Checks profile.**

 Yep a FIB
 
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