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(The Mary Sue)   Marvel Comics president Joe Quesada says he rooted for Zod all through Man of Steel   (themarysue.com) divider line 242
    More: Silly, Joe Quesada, marvel, Man of Steel, Marvel Entertainment, Inc., This Is Spinal Tap, Pa Kent, Jor-El, Krypton  
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2218 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 30 Apr 2014 at 4:09 PM (12 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-30 07:05:49 PM

buntz: Weatherkiss: I don't think that would have been a viable solution. I think Superman killing the guy was against his character,

No, I know he HAD to kill him because he would not stop, I'm just saying THAT wasn't the "last straw" as far as I'm concerned.  I mean, he killed so many more people using the terraforming machine, burning 3 or 4 people (who, by the way, could have ducked under the heat vision) didn't seem like a "deal breaker"

But if Lois was the one in danger, then it makes more sense.

And I liked that this was an origin story for Superman.  Pretend you never heard of the guy.  So as far as we're concerned, he didn't have a "character" to go against.
I like to think because he HAD to kill Zod, and how it made it feel, this is were he comes up with his 'no killing' code!

Hell, people didn't biatch this much about Burton's Batman.  He killed TONS of people (Jesus, he put a bomb in a clowns pants and threw him in the sewer!!)


I didn't see that scene as 'the last straw', I saw it as Clark coming to the realization that no matter how much he screamed at him and tried to change his mind, Zod's mind was already made up and simply would not be changed, even as Clark knew those people would get vaporized.

To me that scene was more symbolic than literal. There was nothing stopping Clark from turning his head upwards or flying away with him or covering his eyes or the thousands of other solutions for that one possible moment.

But it was the moment where Clark would realize that no matter how much of a good person he was, and no matter how much he tried to reason with someone, particular the only other person he knew from his real homeworld, that there would be no reasoning with him -- and that if Clark knew he had the same abilities as he did, that yes, there was no other option.

Not so much 'the last straw' as Superman growing up and recognizing not everyone was as nice as he is, even if they came from the same planet and had the same powers of a God.
 
2014-04-30 07:07:23 PM

Lumbar Puncture: Confabulat: I thought his plan was to murder every person on Earth. But maybe I was drunk.

His plan was to get the genetic codex from Superman's cells and use the planet building machine to terraform the planet to be closer to be like Krypton, for some reason they never bothered to explain why he had to kill everyone on Earth in order to do so instead of taking the terraforming machine to Mars.  I guess he really liked the lived in look of the planet.


And Mars has hookers with triple tits....Zod must be gay.
 
2014-04-30 07:09:00 PM

HawgWild: MechaPyx: Also, when Superman is on their ship he loses his powers because he starts breathing the Kryptonian atmosphere and yet when the Kryptonians are running around in environmental suits they're breathing their own air but they still have superpowers? And he still has his powers when he's in space and not breathing anything at all so does the Earth's atmosphere give superpowers or not? I always thought it was the sun that gave him his power.

Okay, I'm with you on this one.


It seemed to me that the sun gave Superman his superior strength, but it was the atmosphere that gave him the x-ray / heat vision and all the other sensory abilities. That's why Zod and Co. were super fast and strong while wearing suits, but as soon as they started breathing the air, it fried their senses.
 
2014-04-30 07:17:30 PM

Sparkimus Prime: buntz: With all the people that died, it wasn't convincing that Superman was so intent on saving the random people in the corner.  It would have been more believable if Lois was one of them.

Also, why couldn't Superman just put his hand over Zod's eyes?

Maybe if Zod's death had been accidental.  Like Zod's firing his heat vision, and Superman counters it by firing back with his own heat vision.  Maybe Supeman is in a position of self preservation?  And then it becomes a battles of wills, and in the end, Superman's proves too great, even for the inexperienced Superman to comprehend.   Maybe Zod is briefly distracted by Lois, and Superman accidently fries his brain.  Snyder can still have his "Superman murders" ending, but there exists sympathy for Superman on the audiences' part.


Superman kills to save himself, and you're okay with it. He kills to save a family of four, and he's a monster. This is the first time in the fight that Superman was in a dominant position over Zod while Zod was actively threatening humans. Zod knew what was coming. He committed suicide by cop, essentially.
 
2014-04-30 07:18:15 PM

Hebalo: MechaPyx: Like when he jumped Zod at the farm and drove him through a couple cornfields bringing the fight right into the middle of downtown Smallville. He brought the fight to a populated area and left his mom alone with some other Kyptonians in the process. Not a bright idea. Total lack of concern there

If you watch that scene again, you'll see that the U.S. Military was arguably responsible for most of the destruction in Smallville.


Even in Metropolis many of the falling buildings were from the missiles and planes crashing into buildings outside of ground zero.  Superman vs zod has a single building 

Hebalo: scottydoesntknow: 1) The great General Zod, leader of the Krypton armies, gets his ass handed to him by a scientist. I know there was some fluff about Jor serving under him for a while or something, but there's no way a scientist should be able to kick the ass of a military general who's entire life is dedicated to fighting and killing.

Maybe the General of a future society that doesn't do a lot of hand to hand fighting?


The General of a future society that gave up on conquering/space exploration.  I doubt he did much fighting at all pre-rebellion.
 
2014-04-30 07:20:00 PM

buntz: Weatherkiss: I don't think that would have been a viable solution. I think Superman killing the guy was against his character,

No, I know he HAD to kill him because he would not stop, I'm just saying THAT wasn't the "last straw" as far as I'm concerned.  I mean, he killed so many more people using the terraforming machine, burning 3 or 4 people (who, by the way, could have ducked under the heat vision) didn't seem like a "deal breaker"

But if Lois was the one in danger, then it makes more sense.

And I liked that this was an origin story for Superman.  Pretend you never heard of the guy.  So as far as we're concerned, he didn't have a "character" to go against.
I like to think because he HAD to kill Zod, and how it made it feel, this is were he comes up with his 'no killing' code!

Hell, people didn't biatch this much about Burton's Batman.  He killed TONS of people (Jesus, he put a bomb in a clowns pants and threw him in the sewer!!)


He also blew up an entire factory filled with workers. If you count all the obvious deaths on-screen, Burton's Batman killed WAY more people than the Joker did. Joker's body count only rises if you make guesses as to how many people were killed by his cosmetic products, but we never get any numbers on that and the later scenes indicate that everyone is avoiding using cosmetic products, so people probably stopped right after Candy Walker and Amanda Keeler were shown on the news with their Smilex makeovers.

Just from memory (and it has been awhile) in the first movie Batman killed:

Several thugs in the clock tower
The Joker
The whole factory full of workers
Several street thugs in the beginning.

Add in Returns and there are clowns, penguins, thugs, etc. added to Batman's body count.

Burton's Batman ignored Batman's "one rule" so hard that it was ridiculous. Batman was more of a murderer than the Joker and Penguin combined. Even Max Shrek only managed to turn a secretary into a superhero by pushing her into a truck full of kitty litter, while Batman blew up clowns and flashed his bat credit card around town.
 
2014-04-30 07:29:40 PM

buntz: Weatherkiss: I don't think that would have been a viable solution. I think Superman killing the guy was against his character,

No, I know he HAD to kill him because he would not stop, I'm just saying THAT wasn't the "last straw" as far as I'm concerned.  I mean, he killed so many more people using the terraforming machine, burning 3 or 4 people (who, by the way, could have ducked under the heat vision) didn't seem like a "deal breaker"

But if Lois was the one in danger, then it makes more sense.

And I liked that this was an origin story for Superman.  Pretend you never heard of the guy.  So as far as we're concerned, he didn't have a "character" to go against.
I like to think because he HAD to kill Zod, and how it made it feel, this is were he comes up with his 'no killing' code!

Hell, people didn't biatch this much about Burton's Batman.  He killed TONS of people (Jesus, he put a bomb in a clowns pants and threw him in the sewer!!)


I always wondered, Is heat vision actually visible? Like, I know we the audience could see it, but to a character in the movie would it look like Zod was just staring intently at something?
 
2014-04-30 07:32:43 PM

Nix Nightbird: buntz: Weatherkiss: I don't think that would have been a viable solution. I think Superman killing the guy was against his character,

No, I know he HAD to kill him because he would not stop, I'm just saying THAT wasn't the "last straw" as far as I'm concerned.  I mean, he killed so many more people using the terraforming machine, burning 3 or 4 people (who, by the way, could have ducked under the heat vision) didn't seem like a "deal breaker"

But if Lois was the one in danger, then it makes more sense.

And I liked that this was an origin story for Superman.  Pretend you never heard of the guy.  So as far as we're concerned, he didn't have a "character" to go against.
I like to think because he HAD to kill Zod, and how it made it feel, this is were he comes up with his 'no killing' code!

Hell, people didn't biatch this much about Burton's Batman.  He killed TONS of people (Jesus, he put a bomb in a clowns pants and threw him in the sewer!!)

He also blew up an entire factory filled with workers. If you count all the obvious deaths on-screen, Burton's Batman killed WAY more people than the Joker did. Joker's body count only rises if you make guesses as to how many people were killed by his cosmetic products, but we never get any numbers on that and the later scenes indicate that everyone is avoiding using cosmetic products, so people probably stopped right after Candy Walker and Amanda Keeler were shown on the news with their Smilex makeovers.

Just from memory (and it has been awhile) in the first movie Batman killed:

Several thugs in the clock tower
The Joker
The whole factory full of workers
Several street thugs in the beginning.

Add in Returns and there are clowns, penguins, thugs, etc. added to Batman's body count.

Burton's Batman ignored Batman's "one rule" so hard that it was ridiculous. Batman was more of a murderer than the Joker and Penguin combined. Even Max Shrek only managed to turn a secretary into a superhero by pushing her into a truck full of kitty litter, while Batman blew up clowns and flashed his bat credit card around town.


Not to mention his greatest crime of scratching on the bat-cd player!
 
2014-04-30 07:45:18 PM

buntz: Hell, people didn't biatch this much about Burton's Batman. He killed TONS of people (Jesus, he put a bomb in a clowns pants and threw him in the sewer!!)


For the record, I did biatch.  Burton broke the cardinal rule of Batman: Joker never dies until the final battle.
 
2014-04-30 07:45:23 PM

MagSeven: buntz: Weatherkiss: I don't think that would have been a viable solution. I think Superman killing the guy was against his character,

No, I know he HAD to kill him because he would not stop, I'm just saying THAT wasn't the "last straw" as far as I'm concerned.  I mean, he killed so many more people using the terraforming machine, burning 3 or 4 people (who, by the way, could have ducked under the heat vision) didn't seem like a "deal breaker"

But if Lois was the one in danger, then it makes more sense.

And I liked that this was an origin story for Superman.  Pretend you never heard of the guy.  So as far as we're concerned, he didn't have a "character" to go against.
I like to think because he HAD to kill Zod, and how it made it feel, this is were he comes up with his 'no killing' code!

Hell, people didn't biatch this much about Burton's Batman.  He killed TONS of people (Jesus, he put a bomb in a clowns pants and threw him in the sewer!!)

I always wondered, Is heat vision actually visible? Like, I know we the audience could see it, but to a character in the movie would it look like Zod was just staring intently at something?


I figure if it's not visible, you'll probably know about it when whatever it hits spontaneously combusts and/or you feel it getting closer beforehand.

On the matter of the rest of the topic...I really get the feeling that some people wouldn't have been happy unless Superman had spent three quarters of the final fight yelling "STOP! Or I'll yell stop again!" It's like no one realizes that Zod, by the final battle, was well and truly pissed off. Like, "FARK YOU AND DIE" pissed off. And he was a more experienced fighter than Superman. And he was beginning to control his reactions to Earth's atmosphere.

"Take him out over the water or desert then." Yeah, because there's no way he wouldn't just knock Superman out just long enough to go and pick up right where he left off. It's like no one understands what a person can do when he has pure, unadulterated, murderous rage driving him - and a normal person, to boot. Never mind one with superpowers.
 
2014-04-30 07:48:34 PM

FirstNationalBastard: Joey Q is like Obama saying "Please proceed" to Mitt Romney.

As long as DC keeps doing what they're doing the way they've been doing it this decade, Joey Q and Marvel come out looking golden, no mater how badly they fark up.


I still haven't figured out why Batman sounded like he'd been smoking Camel non-filters for 30 years in the last two movies.
 
2014-04-30 07:48:49 PM

MagSeven: I always wondered, Is heat vision actually visible? Like, I know we the audience could see it, but to a character in the movie would it look like Zod was just staring intently at something?


It all depends on the writer. Some have it as visible (with random citizens commenting on it), others have it as just his eyes going red and the point he's looking at being affected.

IIRC, Smallville had the glowing eyes, and the beam was more of a shimmering distortion from the heat.
 
2014-04-30 07:55:36 PM
Zod: "Hey, Kal-El, your father leave you anything that looks like this supertech flash drive?  It has some data on it we need."

*superman hands over flash drive*

Zod: "Ok, sweet, thanks.  If you need us, we're going to be running our terraformers over on Mars and/or Venus where we can easily rebuild our planet without bothering anybody.  See ya, little buddy."

*roll credits*

---OR---

Clark: "Say, space-Dad, you know about this guy specifically, any advice on whether to trust him and how to get rid of him if not?"

Jor-El: "Why, yes.  He wants this codex thing I stole, he's not going to deal in good faith, and you can retrofit your baby crib into a phantom zone portal thingy."

Clark: "Wow, good thing I came over to this ship to bring this up with you instead of talking to some random civilian with no knowledge of the problem whatsoever."

Jor-El: "Why would you have done that?  You know that I have personal, detailed knowledge of Kryptonian politics and history right up to the planetsplosion, you'd have to have an IQ lower than a below-average sack of doorknobs to not come to me when confronted with Kryptonians."

Clark: "True, not sure why I was even thinking that."

*ten second scene of Superman shot-putting his baby-ship at the Kryptonian ship*

*roll credits*
 
2014-04-30 07:59:28 PM

Jim_Callahan: Zod: "Hey, Kal-El, your father leave you anything that looks like this supertech flash drive?  It has some data on it we need."

*superman hands over flash drive*

Zod: "Ok, sweet, thanks.  If you need us, we're going to be running our terraformers over on Mars and/or Venus where we can easily rebuild our planet without bothering anybody.  See ya, little buddy."

*roll credits*

---OR---

Clark: "Say, space-Dad, you know about this guy specifically, any advice on whether to trust him and how to get rid of him if not?"

Jor-El: "Why, yes.  He wants this codex thing I stole, he's not going to deal in good faith, and you can retrofit your baby crib into a phantom zone portal thingy."

Clark: "Wow, good thing I came over to this ship to bring this up with you instead of talking to some random civilian with no knowledge of the problem whatsoever."

Jor-El: "Why would you have done that?  You know that I have personal, detailed knowledge of Kryptonian politics and history right up to the planetsplosion, you'd have to have an IQ lower than a below-average sack of doorknobs to not come to me when confronted with Kryptonians."

Clark: "True, not sure why I was even thinking that."

*ten second scene of Superman shot-putting his baby-ship at the Kryptonian ship*

*roll credits*


I like the second scenario better. It's so XKCD-like.
 
2014-04-30 08:06:07 PM

Clutch2013: Jim_Callahan: Zod: "Hey, Kal-El, your father leave you anything that looks like this supertech flash drive?  It has some data on it we need."

*superman hands over flash drive*

Zod: "Ok, sweet, thanks.  If you need us, we're going to be running our terraformers over on Mars and/or Venus where we can easily rebuild our planet without bothering anybody.  See ya, little buddy."

*roll credits*

---OR---

Clark: "Say, space-Dad, you know about this guy specifically, any advice on whether to trust him and how to get rid of him if not?"

Jor-El: "Why, yes.  He wants this codex thing I stole, he's not going to deal in good faith, and you can retrofit your baby crib into a phantom zone portal thingy."

Clark: "Wow, good thing I came over to this ship to bring this up with you instead of talking to some random civilian with no knowledge of the problem whatsoever."

Jor-El: "Why would you have done that?  You know that I have personal, detailed knowledge of Kryptonian politics and history right up to the planetsplosion, you'd have to have an IQ lower than a below-average sack of doorknobs to not come to me when confronted with Kryptonians."

Clark: "True, not sure why I was even thinking that."

*ten second scene of Superman shot-putting his baby-ship at the Kryptonian ship*

*roll credits*

I like the second scenario better. It's so XKCD-like.


I was gonna say HISHE-like  ;)
 
2014-04-30 08:06:08 PM

Clutch2013: I like the second scenario better. It's so XKCD-like.


It would be slightly more forgivable if Jor-El hadn't just spoon-fed them all of those plot points and technical solutions anyway.  If they'd come up with  literally any single part of the solution without him it would have made the idiocy of not just asking him in the first damned place significantly more forgivable and less suspension-of-disbelief breaking.
 
2014-04-30 08:08:38 PM
Fafai:  That doesn't jive with the "I was bred to fight and you're just a farmboy" speech during the final battle. Stop making excuses. The movie was a mess. It's fine to say you liked it, I can't disagree with that. But all these crazy twisted explanations the fans give to explain away the discrepancies like they're trying to win a no-prize doesn't help their cause.

Thank you.

I hate Zack Snyder with a firey passion--he's good at making pretty images, but is so egregiously bad at directing actors (and plotting--oh my word) that it just ruins everything he touches.  Because of my antipathy, I always get a lot of dismissive glares when I tell them Man of Snyder sucked.  "Oh, well, you were going to hate it," they say.

Very true.  But that doesn't make it any less crappy, especially when I actually watched it.  The plot holes and collateral damage are my main boggle even before the Superman-killing-Zod part.
 
2014-04-30 08:11:31 PM

Clutch2013: .I really get the feeling that some people wouldn't have been happy unless Superman had spent three quarters of the final fight yelling "STOP! Or I'll yell stop again!"


Don't get me wrong, I LOVED Man of Steel.  Loved it.  But if I HAD to biatch, my only complaints would be Lois should have been in peril at the end (instead of constantly falling out of the sky).  I think Lois should have been the determining factor in finally killing Zod.

And I didn't like Pa Kent.  Went against everything we've ever known about him.  Yes, to use my own argument against me "This was an origin story so we didn't know Pa Kent before"
And if that's the case, I don't like the new Pa Kent.

AND I didn't feel Amy Adams was right for Lois.  Good enough actress.  But I didn't buy her as a hard-edged journalist.

Minor stuff.
 
2014-04-30 08:14:43 PM

FinFangFark: I know I'm late to the party, and didn't read all the posts, but yeah, I get where people are saying that it was drawn out pretty well in the scene where Kal is standing on millions of human skulls.


My problem with the whole story was (well one of) that if I recall correctly, the terraforming of other stars failed (when Zod and his crew returned from the Phantom Zone) because those colonies lost connection to Krypton when it was destroyed.

So, wouldn't this new terraformed world just essentially be another failed system?


I thought those were old outposts from a time in the past when Krypton was interested in colonizing the galaxy. They abandoned them when they instituted population control and I guess they left the former colonies to fend for themselves? Not sure why the colonists didn't just go home at that point.
 
2014-04-30 08:18:32 PM

Savage Belief: FirstNationalBastard: Joey Q is like Obama saying "Please proceed" to Mitt Romney.

As long as DC keeps doing what they're doing the way they've been doing it this decade, Joey Q and Marvel come out looking golden, no mater how badly they fark up.

I still haven't figured out why Batman sounded like he'd been smoking Camel non-filters for 30 years in the last two movies.


No nose holes
 
2014-04-30 08:20:06 PM

Confabulat: Christopher Reeve's Superman also murdered Zod and his associates you know. I wonder why people forget that.

Also, Michael Keaton's Batman murdered Joker.

Remember that? Why so serious?


Zod actually survived and was arrested, but that scene was cut. But yeah, Keaton did kill Joker.

Two things really bothered me about Man of Steel 1) How did supes know about the ancient ship under the ice? He just shows up, melts the ice and flys off with no explantion.2) If Kryponians were on earth thousands of years ago with a ship built specificly to terraform planets why didn't they use it then? And why not use it on Mars or something?
 
2014-04-30 08:25:20 PM

that one guy with the face: If Kryponians were on earth thousands of years ago with a ship built specificly to terraform planets why didn't they use it then? And why not use it on Mars or something?


I could be wrong but I thought it was just a Phantom Drive.  Zod said they found the terra-forming ship at other outposts?
And I assumed the Kryptonian ship hidden in the ice was sort of like Star Trek hiding and watching primitive civilizations as not to violate the Prime Directive
 
2014-04-30 08:44:53 PM

that one guy with the face: But yeah, Keaton did kill Joker.


No he didn't, The Joker fell. Batman just didn't save him, much like Batman didn't save Qui Gon in Batman Begins.
 
2014-04-30 08:45:40 PM
So Joe Quesada favors attempting to rebuild an old, failed population rather than deal with the world as it is now.

And he also rooted for Zod.
 
2014-04-30 08:45:55 PM

buntz: Clutch2013: .I really get the feeling that some people wouldn't have been happy unless Superman had spent three quarters of the final fight yelling "STOP! Or I'll yell stop again!"

Don't get me wrong, I LOVED Man of Steel.  Loved it.  But if I HAD to biatch, my only complaints would be Lois should have been in peril at the end (instead of constantly falling out of the sky).  I think Lois should have been the determining factor in finally killing Zod.

And I didn't like Pa Kent.  Went against everything we've ever known about him.  Yes, to use my own argument against me "This was an origin story so we didn't know Pa Kent before"
And if that's the case, I don't like the new Pa Kent.

AND I didn't feel Amy Adams was right for Lois.  Good enough actress.  But I didn't buy her as a hard-edged journalist.

Minor stuff.


I was too busy looking at her soft curves to care about her hard edge.
 
2014-04-30 09:01:16 PM
Hey Quesada....pretty much everyone cheered for Quinn when he shot Skye.  It works both ways moron.
 
2014-04-30 09:03:58 PM

Confabulat: Christopher Reeve's Superman also murdered Zod and his associates you know. I wonder why people forget that.


Why do some people keep saying this? Even without knowing a scene were deleted, I never got the impression that Zod and company died when I saw the movie in theaters. I don't think anyone with at least half a brain got that impression.
 
2014-04-30 09:05:16 PM

that one guy with the face: Confabulat: Christopher Reeve's Superman also murdered Zod and his associates you know. I wonder why people forget that.

Also, Michael Keaton's Batman murdered Joker.

Remember that? Why so serious?

Zod actually survived and was arrested, but that scene was cut. But yeah, Keaton did kill Joker.

Two things really bothered me about Man of Steel 1) How did supes know about the ancient ship under the ice? He just shows up, melts the ice and flys off with no explantion.2) If Kryponians were on earth thousands of years ago with a ship built specificly to terraform planets why didn't they use it then? And why not use it on Mars or something?


Trucker scene, the army guys are talking about it.
 
2014-04-30 09:07:01 PM

chewielouie: Confabulat: Christopher Reeve's Superman also murdered Zod and his associates you know. I wonder why people forget that.

Why do some people keep saying this? Even without knowing a scene were deleted, I never got the impression that Zod and company died when I saw the movie in theaters. I don't think anyone with at least half a brain got that impression.


Because he clearly killed them?

Why would he throw them all down a bottomless pit, yet take luthor back to jail?  Because he didn't give a damn.  It's also why the deleted scene doesn't change my mind.  If he was already flying one criminal to jail, why not the others.

He left them to die, plain and simple.

The only cut that doesn't have Clark attempt/complete murder is the one where he does the time warp again and puts them back in the phantom zone.
 
2014-04-30 09:11:22 PM

hammer85: He left them to die, plain and simple.


Yeah, I just assumed they were dead as well.  Not only that, he crushed Zod's hand.
Not only that, Superman (not Clark) went and beat up the trucker!

Superman was a dick.

Which is great, since he's a dick a LOT in the comics (yet he has the reputation of being a boy scout).

That's why I liked Man of Steel so much.  He was a dick, especially at the end with the General guy and Green Lantern's girlfriend
 
2014-04-30 09:12:07 PM

chewielouie: Confabulat: Christopher Reeve's Superman also murdered Zod and his associates you know. I wonder why people forget that.

Why do some people keep saying this? Even without knowing a scene were deleted, I never got the impression that Zod and company died when I saw the movie in theaters. I don't think anyone with at least half a brain got that impression.


Well he left them in a hole at the North Pole. That would normally be a death sentence in the real world but in that movie, apparently there's a diner less than a mile away so they should be okay.
 
2014-04-30 09:18:46 PM

HawgWild: Esc7: I mean Superman is a morality play. And the only moral we got was "sometimes you have to kill one guy to save a bunch of others."

At the end of the day, most people have two arms.

At the end of the day, there are single breasted suits and double breasted suits.

At the end of the day, they don't think it be like it is, but it do.


At the end of the day there's another day dawning,
And the sun in the morning is waiting to rise.
And the waves crash on the sand,
Like a storm that'll break any second...
There's a hunger in the land,
There's a reckoning still to be reckoned...
And there's gonna be hell to pay,
At the end of the day.
 
2014-04-30 09:36:26 PM

hammer85: Hey Quesada....pretty much everyone cheered for Quinn when he shot Skye.  It works both ways moron.


Skye has actually been really awesome in the last few episodes. I love how the writers gave a middle finger to a lot of the haters by revealing her real name as Mary Sue Poots.
 
2014-04-30 09:46:40 PM

Mad_Radhu: hammer85: Hey Quesada....pretty much everyone cheered for Quinn when he shot Skye.  It works both ways moron.

Skye has actually been really awesome in the last few episodes. I love how the writers gave a middle finger to a lot of the haters by revealing her real name as Mary Sue Poots.


No she hasn't. She still stinks. Even Ward out acted her last night, and that guy is terrible.
 
2014-04-30 09:53:04 PM

buntz: hammer85: He left them to die, plain and simple.

Yeah, I just assumed they were dead as well.  Not only that, he crushed Zod's hand.
Not only that, Superman (not Clark) went and beat up the trucker!

Superman was a dick.

Which is great, since he's a dick a LOT in the comics (yet he has the reputation of being a boy scout).

That's why I liked Man of Steel so much.  He was a dick, especially at the end with the General guy and Green Lantern's girlfriend


Unfortunately that wasn't her.  Which makes that scene just horribly sad in retrospect.  She's Major Carrie Ferris.


Trocadero: Mad_Radhu: hammer85: Hey Quesada....pretty much everyone cheered for Quinn when he shot Skye.  It works both ways moron.

Skye has actually been really awesome in the last few episodes. I love how the writers gave a middle finger to a lot of the haters by revealing her real name as Mary Sue Poots.

No she hasn't. She still stinks. Even Ward out acted her last night, and that guy is terrible.


This

Mad_Radhu: hammer85: Hey Quesada....pretty much everyone cheered for Quinn when he shot Skye.  It works both ways moron.

Skye has actually been really awesome in the last few episodes. I love how the writers gave a middle finger to a lot of the haters by revealing her real name as Mary Sue Poots.


Oh ya, that's how you build good will towards your fans/watchers.  Call them losers outside of the show and openly mock them in the show.
 
2014-04-30 10:25:24 PM
I too rooted for Zod.  But that's because Superman is a horrible character with huge development limitations that be written around by a only  a few very, very, good writers. All that's left is to write villains that hopefully bring more to the table than a target on their backs.  Otherwise, as someone referenced up-thread, Superman's just punching cardboard.
 
2014-04-30 10:27:07 PM
So good to see the HISHE stuff getting mentioned in this thread. That stuff cracks me up, man.
 
2014-04-30 10:35:37 PM

Trocadero: Mad_Radhu: hammer85: Hey Quesada....pretty much everyone cheered for Quinn when he shot Skye.  It works both ways moron.

Skye has actually been really awesome in the last few episodes. I love how the writers gave a middle finger to a lot of the haters by revealing her real name as Mary Sue Poots.

No she hasn't. She still stinks. Even Ward out acted her last night, and that guy is terrible.


That's where we have to disagree. I lived the whole conversation in the diner where she was twisting in the knife. Plus, the whole Nazi exchange was hilarious.
 
2014-04-30 10:40:27 PM

hammer85: Unfortunately that wasn't her.  Which makes that scene just horribly sad in retrospect.  She's Major Carrie Ferris.


Just but don't you think it's too much of a coincidence to have Carrie Farris in a "Universe" with Carol Ferris?
 
2014-04-30 10:59:13 PM

buntz: hammer85: Unfortunately that wasn't her.  Which makes that scene just horribly sad in retrospect.  She's Major Carrie Ferris.

Just but don't you think it's too much of a coincidence to have Carrie Farris in a "Universe" with Carol Ferris?


The only way it makes sense is that they are so ashamed of Green Lantern that they're making them completely different characters to avoid confusion.  But seeing they are remaking batman, who knows.
 
2014-04-30 11:07:10 PM
ts4.mm.bing.net
 
2014-04-30 11:34:01 PM

chewielouie: Confabulat: Christopher Reeve's Superman also murdered Zod and his associates you know. I wonder why people forget that.

Why do some people keep saying this? Even without knowing a scene were deleted, I never got the impression that Zod and company died when I saw the movie in theaters. I don't think anyone with at least half a brain got that impression.


It's Man of Steel fans who keep saying this, so you're right about the half a brain thing. Without Man of Steel we wouldn't be talking about this. It's only brought up now as a cheap attempt at addressing the neck snap in a film 30 years later. "Well Reeves did it too so what's the problem?" No. No he didn't.

I've said it before but there's nothing about the tone of that scene that suggests he killed them. No body, no death. They disappear under some mist. It's ambiguous what happened, but they automatically jump to murder. Even with a deleted scene they still won't budge. They're trying to argue the merits of Man of Steel but since it has none beyond 'looks pretty' they have to resort to shiatting on an entirely different movie.
 
2014-04-30 11:42:47 PM

MechaPyx: Also, when Superman is on their ship he loses his powers because he starts breathing the Kryptonian atmosphere and yet when the Kryptonians are running around in environmental suits they're breathing their own air but they still have superpowers? And he still has his powers when he's in space and not breathing anything at all so does the Earth's atmosphere give superpowers or not? I always thought it was the sun that gave him his power.


So you didn't watch the movie?

Sun and lower gravity gave them more strength.
Atmosphere and sun gave them heightened senses.

it's VERY damn clear.
 
2014-04-30 11:44:08 PM

Fafai: chewielouie: Confabulat: Christopher Reeve's Superman also murdered Zod and his associates you know. I wonder why people forget that.

Why do some people keep saying this? Even without knowing a scene were deleted, I never got the impression that Zod and company died when I saw the movie in theaters. I don't think anyone with at least half a brain got that impression.

It's Man of Steel fans who keep saying this, so you're right about the half a brain thing. Without Man of Steel we wouldn't be talking about this. It's only brought up now as a cheap attempt at addressing the neck snap in a film 30 years later. "Well Reeves did it too so what's the problem?" No. No he didn't.

I've said it before but there's nothing about the tone of that scene that suggests he killed them. No body, no death. They disappear under some mist. It's ambiguous what happened, but they automatically jump to murder. Even with a deleted scene they still won't budge. They're trying to argue the merits of Man of Steel but since it has none beyond 'looks pretty' they have to resort to shiatting on an entirely different movie.


So...you're going to agree that no one died in the attack on Metropolis other than some soldiers?

After all...no bodies, no death.
 
2014-04-30 11:45:24 PM

Fafai: chewielouie: Confabulat: Christopher Reeve's Superman also murdered Zod and his associates you know. I wonder why people forget that.

Why do some people keep saying this? Even without knowing a scene were deleted, I never got the impression that Zod and company died when I saw the movie in theaters. I don't think anyone with at least half a brain got that impression.

It's Man of Steel fans who keep saying this, so you're right about the half a brain thing. Without Man of Steel we wouldn't be talking about this. It's only brought up now as a cheap attempt at addressing the neck snap in a film 30 years later. "Well Reeves did it too so what's the problem?" No. No he didn't.


No, Reeve went one further and snapped his own.
Too soon?
 
2014-04-30 11:47:45 PM

No Line For Beer: I too rooted for Zod.  But that's because Superman is a horrible character with huge development limitations that be written around by a only  a few very, very, good writers. All that's left is to write villains that hopefully bring more to the table than a target on their backs.  Otherwise, as someone referenced up-thread, Superman's just punching cardboard.


I always take offense at the first, especially when it's addressed by the second.

Superman is not a bad character. He just can't be written well by people who don't understand him. Joan Osbourne got to the core of who Superman a long time ago. "What if God were one of us?"

Now Superman isn't God, but the analogy works well enough. He's absolutely a being of near god-like abilities. What would a character like that living the life of a mortal do with those abilities? Why would he do what he does?

You're right that it takes an exceptional writer to do Superman well. He's not at all an easy character. But that's not the same as saying he's a bad one. He's just not constructed out of cliched conflicts like most characters. As such, he doesn't write himself as so many characters do.

Like so many people, you analyze Superman based on what he does. You reduce him to titillation and wish fulfillment value like Batman or Wolverine. That's why people think complex characters like Aquaman are boring while one-note characters like Iron Man are exciting.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with that preference. I just want you to realize your reasoning is flawed.

Superman is fundamentally a transcendent being, so his problems are transcendent problems. Mundane villains with mundane motives are beneath the scope of the character. How many stories are there about Hercules beating up pickpockets? Superman getting foiled by some clown in facepaint or flamboyant serial killer is patently ridiculous. Superman's opponent is always "The Big Picture". His struggles are titanic - either against the world or against himself.

I get that some people don't like Superman. That's fair enough. But it's not because he's not a good character.
 
2014-04-30 11:56:17 PM

hammer85: So...you're going to agree that no one died in the attack on Metropolis other than some soldiers?


I leave it open as a possibility, sure. The entire city could have been evacuated off screen, just like Zod could have survived off screen under the mist. But in a different thread you claimed Reeve 100%, no doubt in your mind. Which goes against the work of the actual filmmakers. I'm going to trust them over you.
 
2014-04-30 11:57:05 PM
*claimed Reeves killed him 100%, durr
 
2014-04-30 11:58:55 PM

rocky_howard: MechaPyx: Also, when Superman is on their ship he loses his powers because he starts breathing the Kryptonian atmosphere and yet when the Kryptonians are running around in environmental suits they're breathing their own air but they still have superpowers? And he still has his powers when he's in space and not breathing anything at all so does the Earth's atmosphere give superpowers or not? I always thought it was the sun that gave him his power.

So you didn't watch the movie?

Sun and lower gravity gave them more strength.
Atmosphere and sun gave them heightened senses.

it's VERY damn clear.


If the atmosphere only affects their senses then why was he so weak after breathing the ship's atmo? And when Jor-El tweaks the ship's atmo back to Earth normal he regains his strength.
 
2014-04-30 11:59:20 PM
"You probably could have written a way around it," argued Quesada. "You could have had a better solution if you had written a better problem. "  And nobody knows what it's like to have a problem to write around a problem like people who have to clean up Quesada's messes.
 
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