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(Seattle Times)   ATF closes Worst. Gun shop. Ever   (seattletimes.com) divider line 126
    More: Interesting, ATF, Skagit County, firearms, gun permits, James Zammillo, Mount Rainier, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, Office of Inspector General  
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13515 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Apr 2014 at 3:50 PM (26 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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NFA [TotalFark]
2014-04-30 12:49:54 PM  
It has always astonished me when I hear business people who feel as if it's an insult when they're expected to keep reasonable records.
 
2014-04-30 01:44:58 PM  
This used to be a reputable gun shop. My grandpa, dad and I have bought guns there. I bought my first deer rifle from them.

Sounds like the sons drove it into the ground after they took over.

Damn shame.
 
2014-04-30 02:21:53 PM  

yanceylebeef: This used to be a reputable gun shop. My grandpa, dad and I have bought guns there. I bought my first deer rifle from them.

Sounds like the sons drove it into the ground after they took over.

Damn shame.


Sounds like the sons inherited a business, but no one ever told them how to  run a business.
 
2014-04-30 02:25:53 PM  

Rincewind53: yanceylebeef: This used to be a reputable gun shop. My grandpa, dad and I have bought guns there. I bought my first deer rifle from them.

Sounds like the sons drove it into the ground after they took over.

Damn shame.

Sounds like the sons inherited a business, but no one ever told them how to  run a business.


Sounds like the sons inherited a business and realized there was far more profit to be made in trafficking to criminals and militia groups than in above-board gun sales.
 
2014-04-30 02:30:36 PM  
Wasn't Kesselring a Nazi?
 
2014-04-30 02:34:59 PM  

Rincewind53: yanceylebeef: This used to be a reputable gun shop. My grandpa, dad and I have bought guns there. I bought my first deer rifle from them.

Sounds like the sons drove it into the ground after they took over.

Damn shame.

Sounds like the sons inherited a business, but no one ever told them how to  run a business.


It's gonna be interesting in my family in about 10 years when my dad decides to retire and leave the business to my brother and myself. I know some about management but not about the business side. My brother runs a small one-man shop so he knows a little more.
 
2014-04-30 02:49:34 PM  
I expected this to be about the gun shop that sold weapons to both Fort Hood shooters.
 
2014-04-30 02:52:28 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: It's gonna be interesting in my family in about 10 years when my dad decides to retire and leave the business to my brother and myself.


You should start getting active in the business now, so the transition will be smooth and you'll have plenty of time to learn from your father how to handle the business side.
 
2014-04-30 03:18:38 PM  
It all went downhill for them when they sold a drum fed silenced assault rifle to this guy for a handful of krugerrands:

img.fark.net
 
2014-04-30 03:36:25 PM  
The only thing that stops a bad gun shop is a good gun shop.
 
2014-04-30 03:46:21 PM  
Who needs well-enforced federal regulations? I mean, look how well the banks got along without them.
 
2014-04-30 03:53:21 PM  
That may be bad, but the sec has not gone after a single banker after they blew up the economy.
 
2014-04-30 03:54:46 PM  

Tr0mBoNe: Wasn't Kesselring a Nazi?


Luftwaffe
 
gja [TotalFark]
2014-04-30 03:57:12 PM  
I have not even the slimmest sliver of sympathy for these idiots.
Welcome to business basics 101.
 
2014-04-30 03:59:37 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: Rincewind53: yanceylebeef: This used to be a reputable gun shop. My grandpa, dad and I have bought guns there. I bought my first deer rifle from them.

Sounds like the sons drove it into the ground after they took over.

Damn shame.

Sounds like the sons inherited a business, but no one ever told them how to  run a business.

Sounds like the sons inherited a business and realized there was far more profit to be made in trafficking to criminals and militia groups than in above-board gun sales.


media.tumblr.com
 
2014-04-30 03:59:47 PM  
They can't come for their guns if they don't know where they are, duh!
 
2014-04-30 04:01:39 PM  
8 farking years? 3,000 violations?

Jesus!  Even the ATF can't keep track of all the gun laws they're supposed to be enforcing.
 
2014-04-30 04:01:45 PM  
Sounds like that gun store wasn't well regulated.
 
2014-04-30 04:02:35 PM  
Huh. Right on the heels of the 'No Background Checks' gun show at the Tacoma Dome. It's like there might, just possibly, MAYBE, a huge underground black market in guns.

But that can't be, because Republican Jesus said so in the Book of Smith and Wesson.
 
2014-04-30 04:05:12 PM  

NFA: It has always astonished me when I hear business people who feel as if it's an insult when they're expected to keep reasonable records.


That ends, one way or another, when the IRS comes calling.
 
2014-04-30 04:05:26 PM  
Can't account properly for inventory, yeah that's a problem. Selling guns to individuals who cannot pass background check, that's plain criminal (or should be).

Not only is it irresponsible, but it doesn't exactly help the fight to keep guns out of the hands of individuals who shouldn't own firearms (felons, violent motherfarkers, mentally ill, etc.).
 
2014-04-30 04:07:15 PM  
Best Gun Shop Ever:

farm1.staticflickr.com
www.gannett-cdn.com
 
2014-04-30 04:08:27 PM  
This would never have happened if there were no regulations to violate.  2nd Amendment Freedomz.

No, but seriously, we really need to start beating the congress critters who hamstring the ATF so bad that this kind of thing goes unnoticed for this long.
 
2014-04-30 04:08:53 PM  

jankyboy: Can't account properly for inventory, yeah that's a problem. Selling guns to individuals who cannot pass background check, that's plain criminal (or should be).

Not only is it irresponsible, but it doesn't exactly help the fight to keep guns out of the hands of individuals who shouldn't own firearms (felons, violent motherfarkers, mentally ill, etc.).


A couple of good ole boy convicted felons killed someone up that way last year shooting on private property with no appropriate back stop.

I will say they didn't get much sympathy from anyone.
 
2014-04-30 04:11:06 PM  
"Given what happened to us, I think ATF could come into any place and make it hell on anybody," he said.

I'd hope so. If you can't keep track of selling guns, your life should be made into a living hell.
 
2014-04-30 04:11:19 PM  

AngryDragon: 8 farking years? 3,000 violations?

Jesus!  Even the ATF can't keep track of all the gun laws they're supposed to be enforcing.


Well when your budget is slashed and Congress keeps interfering in any attempt to regulate guns you get this type of thing. Thanks Obama.
 
2014-04-30 04:12:16 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: It's gonna be interesting in my family in about 10 years when my dad decides to retire and leave the business to my brother and myself. I know some about management but not about the business side. My brother runs a small one-man shop so he knows a little more.


Seen this situation a number of times and worked for a company that went through this.  You have a few choices:
See what's coming and start learning the business.
Sell it or drive it into the ground when it's your turn.
Acknowledge your faults and hire someone to manage the company.
 
2014-04-30 04:13:50 PM  

Rapmaster2000: Best Gun Shop Ever:

[farm1.staticflickr.com image 250x319]
[www.gannett-cdn.com image 534x712]


That place needs a hair salon.
 
2014-04-30 04:16:24 PM  

UncomfortableSilence: This would never have happened if there were no regulations to violate.  2nd Amendment Freedomz.

No, but seriously, we really need to start beating the congress critters who hamstring the ATF so bad that this kind of thing goes unnoticed for this long.


are you defending the same ATF who ran "Fast and Furious?"  They need more congressional oversight, not less.
 
2014-04-30 04:17:53 PM  

AngryDragon: 8 farking years? 3,000 violations?

Jesus!  Even the ATF can't keep track of all the gun laws they're supposed to be enforcing.


We had an article last year on this.  Even ignoring the open ways Congress has been hamstringing the ATF, there's a GOP rep in particular who's been slowly gutting the ATFs powers for over a decade now, including little restrictions that are snuck in every spending bill.
 
2014-04-30 04:18:04 PM  
Much as I hate to admit it, keeping the necessary records for ATF compliance is pretty simple for a gun business. A lot simpler than dealing with all the different tax issues.

Of course it's a pain if you get a hardass ATF inspector who wants to give you grief over someone abbreviating "street" to "st" on a 4473, but that's mostly just a bureaucratic problem.

I just can't imagine how someone can fark this up so badly. Hell, if you're really wanting to make a bunch of illegal sales it probably wouldn't be too hard to cook the books and make it less obvious than what these morons did.
 
2014-04-30 04:19:57 PM  
Free balaclava with every gun purchase!
 
2014-04-30 04:24:54 PM  

Duane Dibbley: Free balaclava with every gun purchase!


mmmmm, baklava.

img.fark.net
 
2014-04-30 04:24:57 PM  
The ATF is bipolar. They like to run stings to catch big sellers who prpduce a lot of press but when you have a lot of paperwork they can't be bothered.
 
2014-04-30 04:27:02 PM  

NFA: It has always astonished me when I hear business people who feel as if it's an insult when they're expected to keep reasonable records.


Most people aren't required to keep records when they sell something to someone else. Add in that this particular product is subject to political games that result in SWAT teams (mistakenly) busting into your house, and I can see why people would at the very least resent it. Gun shop owners are legally required to endanger their customers; that's messed up.
 
2014-04-30 04:28:17 PM  
The free market would have done a much better job at taking care of this poor business than those scurrilous government bureaucrats.
 
2014-04-30 04:30:17 PM  

AngryDragon: 8 farking years? 3,000 violations?

Jesus!  Even the ATF can't keep track of all the gun laws they're supposed to be enforcing.


We need more laws then!
 
2014-04-30 04:35:09 PM  
CruiserTwelve [TotalFark]

Who needs well-enforced federal regulations? I mean, look how well the banks got along without them.


Who needs well-enforced federal regulations? When you're an obama bot doing it, you get to retire scott free and keep your golden parachute
 
2014-04-30 04:38:35 PM  

AngryDragon: 8 farking years? 3,000 violations?

Jesus!  Even the ATF can't keep track of all the gun laws they're supposed to be enforcing.


Maybe if they trafficked fewer weapons to Mexico they could spend their time actually enforcing the law (instead of actively violating it).

If the ATF is underfunded, it's their own damn fault... I can't justify giving them any more money given the fark ups they've committed in even the fairly recent past.
 
2014-04-30 04:43:19 PM  
AngryDragon
2014-04-30 04:01:39 PM


8 farking years? 3,000 violations?

Jesus! Even the ATF can't keep track of all the gun laws they're supposed to be enforcing.



We 'don't have the time' to prosecute gun buyers who lie on background checks
--obama's choice for VP, joe biden
 
2014-04-30 04:46:57 PM  

NFA: It has always astonished me when I hear business people who feel as if it's an insult when they're expected to keep reasonable records.


Define reasonable for the class.
 
2014-04-30 04:49:01 PM  
Phased Plasma rifle in the 40 watt range.
 
2014-04-30 04:51:35 PM  
So, now we know where Holder shopped for the Fast And Furious guns.
 
2014-04-30 05:03:40 PM  

MyRandomName: NFA: It has always astonished me when I hear business people who feel as if it's an insult when they're expected to keep reasonable records.

Define reasonable for the class.


Reasonable is subjective of course.

I can tell you that what we actually have to record is the source and disposition of every gun that comes through inventory, including the make, model, type/description, and serial number. We have to record the name and address of who it was transferred to or from and the FFL number for licensees. For unlicensed buyers we need to keep their properly completed 4473 (which includes all their personal info, info about the gun, and the results of their NICS check) and a copy of their ID. All records have to be retained for 20 years or until the FFL is surrendered.

As a 07 FFL holder (licensed firearm manufacturer) I've got some extra paperwork regarding the quantities of different kinds of firearms I produce annually and excise taxes.
 
2014-04-30 05:05:44 PM  

Rapmaster2000: Best Gun Shop Ever:

[farm1.staticflickr.com image 250x319]
[www.gannett-cdn.com image 534x712]


I live in Indiana.

Came for this.

Leaving satisfied.

"Heh, heh, heh..."
 
2014-04-30 05:07:05 PM  
Just another item to add to the long list of reasons why ATF has no credibility.
 
2014-04-30 05:10:11 PM  
enough guns to invade Poland, biatches!
 
2014-04-30 05:11:11 PM  

jehovahs witness protection: So, now we know where Holder shopped for the Fast And Furious guns.


Hardly.

One of the F&F shops is local to me. They knew the sales were hinky and every time the BATF's buyers tried to make a purchase the shop recognized they were hinky and tried to report it - at which point the BATF told them to let the sale through and not talk about it.

The shop was anything but unscrupulous, but the Washington Post still got to libel as evil arms dealers to the cartels for doing what they were coerced to do by the BATF.
 
2014-04-30 05:12:22 PM  

yanceylebeef: This used to be a reputable gun shop. My grandpa, dad and I have bought guns there. I bought my first deer rifle from them.

Sounds like the sons drove it into the ground after they took over.

Damn shame.


It was the best gun shop this side of the Cascades. They had several very good gunsmiths right in the shop, and the best selection in the store of reloading gear and supplies. Every cop in the State paid them at least one visit for equipment. It was the only place in the county where one could get .45 ACP by the case, and you could find almost any exotic round there was. I would bet that if you went in there and asked for .45 Webley or .30 Long, they'd have a box of it somewhere.

Too bad.

What this came out of, was the second generation owners basically embezzling from the store. They were using the company's licenses to buy from manufacturers and then selling them off at the gun shows as private sellers, and pocketing the cash. The store started losing money as soon as the old man died.
 
2014-04-30 05:18:53 PM  
Meh.
 
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