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(Washington Post)   White House open to letting states put tolls on interstate highways. Residents of the North East wonder what these toll free interstate roads are   (washingtonpost.com ) divider line
    More: Interesting, Interstate, White House, Transportation Secretary Anthony Foxx, rentals, prohibitions  
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811 clicks; posted to Politics » on 30 Apr 2014 at 11:39 AM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-04-30 09:36:50 AM  
I heard something on NPR(?) about the transportation fund recently. That must have been the White House leak team setting up this announcement. Obama is pissed that Congress won't raise the gas tax.

Who is currently approved for the Interstate tolling pilot program? Pennsylvania was rejected because the state did not intend to spend the money on roads. I-80 tolls were going to be spent in Philadelphia.
 
2014-04-30 11:40:44 AM  
Welp, there goes driving in every state with a republican government.
 
2014-04-30 11:41:30 AM  
will the neoliberal nightmare ever end?
 
2014-04-30 11:43:07 AM  

ZAZ: I-80 tolls were going to be spent in Philadelphia.


Yep, to supplement the SEPTA budget, if I recall correctly.  Of course, this is in the same state where the Johnstown flood tax from 1936 is still on the books, and is now redirected to the state's general fund.
 
2014-04-30 11:47:30 AM  
Because we don't have enough toll roads on interstates?

http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/tollpage/t1part3.cfm

Drive through Oklahoma sometime....
 
2014-04-30 11:47:59 AM  
Was wondering why I90 in Illinois has no tolls...
 
2014-04-30 11:48:58 AM  
Eliminate the gas tax and make all roads toll roads. With the proper transponder, this will have the added benefit of letting law enforcement track every vehicle 24/7.
 
2014-04-30 11:53:33 AM  
White House open to letting states put tolls on interstate highways.

The White House looks favorably on a measure that pulls more money into government. Nobody saw that coming.
 
2014-04-30 11:54:05 AM  
1. Get elected to congress
2. Block transportation bill until Obama allows tolls
3. Have your buddies back home sell the right to operate said tolls to Republican donors
4. Get reelected to congress
 
2014-04-30 11:54:40 AM  

LarryDan43: Was wondering why I90 in Illinois has no tolls...


The current rule is that with very limited exceptions like big bridges and tunnels, tolls are prohibited.  However, there were lots of roads built before the creation of the interstate highway system that were grandfathered into the program and allowed to keep their existing tolls.  That's why the northeast and Chicago-NE corridor have so many tolls, because they were building freeways before the interstate system.  The restriction does not apply to state and local roads so there are plenty of those in certain places that have tolls, though some states have bans on tolls or at least rules that the tolls have to be dropped when the original bonds for that road are paid.  The federal rule was put into place to protect the local businesses on the side of the road from being forced out of business by service plazas.
 
2014-04-30 11:58:14 AM  

DarnoKonrad: will the neoliberal nightmare ever end?


It's possible that we're in a death-spiral, hypothetically speaking.  With the seating of (some) populist movements in the neoliberal camp, it's hard to fathom a political response actually quelling the plutocratic direction of the US.
 
2014-04-30 11:59:30 AM  
For everyone not in the Northeast, allow me to illustrate. Driving from the very beating heart of DC to northern NJ (just below the GW Bridge on Rte 4):
(-a $2ish toll if I use the ICC rather than 50, but this is rare)
-$7 at the Fort McHenry (just north of Baltimore); IIRC the 895 toll is comparable
-$4 at the DE state line
-$10.50-$13.85 (depending on time) to go the length of the NJ Turnpike
(-coming back, there's an extra $4 toll at the south end of the Delaware Memorial Bridge)

So that's ~$25-$30 each way just to go 200 miles. Granted, they're 200 highly in-demand miles (probably the most traveled long-distance stretch of highway in the country, likely in the hemisphere), but expand that nationwide, and I may as well hire a wagon train to save money.
 
2014-04-30 12:03:51 PM  
Don't raise taxes, just make us pay in other ways that aren't non-partisan. Fark toll roads, JUST RAISE THE TAX A LITTLE AND START PAYING FOR THE ROADS.
 
2014-04-30 12:04:43 PM  
I-35 Toll Road in Austin coming soon to a populace of people refusing to use it. Gregg Abbot and the Texas congress heard orgasming in unison.
 
2014-04-30 12:05:38 PM  
In other news....................the Wealthy and the huge companies they own are tired of paying taxes. they don't owe 'murica a damn thing.  in spite of having interstate highways that greatly benefit their businesses.

Solution: let the little people pay every time they get on the highway.  that way, we shift the tax burden down to the little people where it belongs and WE laugh all the way to the bank.


sounds like something, but it ain't Democracy and it  ain't a government of, by, and for The People.
 
2014-04-30 12:05:43 PM  

Dr Dreidel: So that's ~$25-$30 each way just to go 200 miles.


I should add that for me, 200 miles is slightly over half a tank ($40-50 for a fillup depending on price, of which $2.40 goes back to government for the gas tax).

So I'm out of pocket roughly $100 for the whole trip ($50-$60 on tolls, $40-$50 on gas) of which the various governments get more than half.
 
2014-04-30 12:05:47 PM  
There have been tolls on interstates since their Eisenhower administration.  How is this suddenly Obama's fault?
 
2014-04-30 12:06:18 PM  

Triple Oak: Don't raise taxes, just make us pay in other ways that aren't non-partisan. Fark toll roads, JUST RAISE THE TAX A LITTLE AND START PAYING FOR THE ROADS.


Use the toll money for public transit, highspeed rail, and more HOV.

/also internet backbone, public wifi, fiber to residential.
 
2014-04-30 12:07:18 PM  
I thought toll roads like the NJ Turnpike were built and maintained with NJ funds so the fact that Route 95 happens to pass along that road is just a coincidence while the 95 corridor between VA and FL in the bootstrappy states were built and maintained with federal funds.  Am I wrong?
 
2014-04-30 12:08:20 PM  

Wellon Dowd: Eliminate the gas tax and make all roads toll roads. With the proper transponder, this will have the added benefit of letting law enforcement track every vehicle 24/7.



and that will keep us Free!!


ain't Freedom great!
 
2014-04-30 12:08:32 PM  

ikanreed: DarnoKonrad: will the neoliberal nightmare ever end?

It's possible that we're in a death-spiral, hypothetically speaking.  With the seating of (some) populist movements in the neoliberal camp, it's hard to fathom a political response actually quelling the plutocratic direction of the US.


fark political responses, put them all against the wall
 
2014-04-30 12:08:46 PM  

lilbjorn: There have been tolls on interstates since their Eisenhower administration.  How is this suddenly Obama's fault?


That's what confused me about this. I have a $2 toll on I-95 about five minutes from my house.
 
2014-04-30 12:09:20 PM  

KellyX: fark political responses, put them all against the wall


Who's going to put the bell on the cat?
 
m00
2014-04-30 12:09:54 PM  

Dr Dreidel: So that's ~$25-$30 each way just to go 200 miles. Granted, they're 200 highly in-demand miles (probably the most traveled long-distance stretch of highway in the country, likely in the hemisphere), but expand that nationwide, and I may as well hire a wagon train to save money.


Democrats: Lets tax gasoline
Republicans: No wait, lets tax roads,

Lobbyists: No wait, lets tax both and then you can contract my private company to build the tax collection infrastructure, but I get to keep all the generated revenue. Plus you also pay me for the hard work it's going to be making all that money.

Democrats and Republicans: Okay! As long as you use some of that money to contribute to our political campaigns.

Lobbyists: Deal!

/circle of life
 
2014-04-30 12:10:25 PM  

lilbjorn: There have been tolls on interstates since their Eisenhower administration.  How is this suddenly Obama's fault?


Except for very limited stretches like big bridges and tunnels, the tolls that have been around since Eisenhower were grandfathered into the system.  The new stuff built since then, with very limited exceptions, is required to be toll free.
 
2014-04-30 12:11:08 PM  

NeoCortex42: lilbjorn: There have been tolls on interstates since their Eisenhower administration.  How is this suddenly Obama's fault?

That's what confused me about this. I have a $2 toll on I-95 about five minutes from my house.


Grandfathered into the interstate highway system.
 
m00
2014-04-30 12:13:55 PM  

m00: Dr Dreidel: So that's ~$25-$30 each way just to go 200 miles. Granted, they're 200 highly in-demand miles (probably the most traveled long-distance stretch of highway in the country, likely in the hemisphere), but expand that nationwide, and I may as well hire a wagon train to save money.

Democrats: Lets tax gasoline
Republicans: No wait, lets tax roads,

Lobbyists: No wait, lets tax both and then you can contract my private company to build the tax collection infrastructure, but I get to keep all the generated revenue. Plus you also pay me for the hard work it's going to be making all that money.

Democrats and Republicans: Okay! As long as you use some of that money to contribute to our political campaigns.

Lobbyists: Deal!

/circle of life


almost forgot:

Walmart, and Other Corporations With Large Supply Chains: We're job creators, so please exempt us from the tolls and taxes even though we're the main reason roads need a lot of upkeep in the first place.

Democrats and Republicans: Okay! As long as you use some of that money to contribute to our political campaigns.

Corporations : Deal!
 
2014-04-30 12:15:34 PM  
Isn't the New Jersey Turnpike already an interstate with a toll?
 
2014-04-30 12:16:16 PM  

Arkanaut: Isn't the New Jersey Turnpike already an interstate with a toll?


I'll keep saying it until someone pays attention.

Grandfathered into the interstate highway system.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-04-30 12:23:29 PM  
Restrictions on tolls have been tied to federal funding, not solely designation as an Interstate highay.
 
2014-04-30 12:23:29 PM  

The Crepes of Wrath: ZAZ: I-80 tolls were going to be spent in Philadelphia.

Yep, to supplement the SEPTA budget, if I recall correctly.  Of course, this is in the same state where the Johnstown flood tax from 1936 is still on the books, and is now redirected to the state's general fund.


I read this, and couldn't figure out why the state of Pennsylvania was imposing a tax fifty years after the event. I had no idea that Johnstown has actually been the scene of several devastating floods, including one in 1936 which killed a couple dozen people. Of course, that still pales in comparison to the 1889 flood.
 
2014-04-30 12:25:32 PM  
Oh, great, just what Rick Perry needs, permission to funnel money to his cronies put up more toll roads.
 
2014-04-30 12:27:58 PM  
Do they still divert gas taxes to things other than teh roadz? If they would stop doing that then maybe they wouldn't need the tolls. Or go with tolls and eliminate the gas tax. Pick one and don't divert the funds.
 
2014-04-30 12:29:21 PM  

lilbjorn: There have been tolls on interstates since their Eisenhower administration.  How is this suddenly Obama's fault?


He's black.
 
2014-04-30 12:29:22 PM  
"New Jersey is the toll booth capital of the world.  I can't back outta my farkin' driveway without some guy in a hat asking for twenty-five cents."
- George Carlin


/and that was back in the '80s.
 
2014-04-30 12:33:06 PM  

TrollingForColumbine: Triple Oak: Don't raise taxes, just make us pay in other ways that aren't non-partisan. Fark toll roads, JUST RAISE THE TAX A LITTLE AND START PAYING FOR THE ROADS.

Use the toll money for public transit, highspeed rail, and more HOV.

/also internet backbone, public wifi, fiber to residential.


Pipe dream. That's not where the money's going unfortunately and it needs to be eliminated. Again, raise taxes slightly to offset not having tolls.

You know what? Better idea. Close the tax loopholes, close off people funneling their earnings through a non-profit, raise taxes on the people who make the most in this country. COMMON SENSE SOLUTIONS. Congress is getting paid by those interests to prevent it. It's bullshiat.
 
2014-04-30 12:34:10 PM  

Tyrone Slothrop: Oh, great, just what Rick Perry needs, permission to funnel money to his cronies put up more toll roads.


You misspelled "sell tollways to a Spanish company".
 
2014-04-30 12:38:41 PM  

Philip J. Fry: I thought toll roads like the NJ Turnpike were built and maintained with NJ funds so the fact that Route 95 happens to pass along that road is just a coincidence while the 95 corridor between VA and FL in the bootstrappy states were built and maintained with federal funds.  Am I wrong?


I-30 between Ft Worth and Dallas was originally built as a tollway.

When the debt from its construction was paid off, it was given to the Federal Government for free and the toll booths removed.

/they will be removing the HOV lanes used for Cowboy Stadium traffic and replacing them with toll lanes.

//Ft Worth is refusing to expand I-35W and is instead pushing a plane to add toll lanes.
 
2014-04-30 12:39:33 PM  

kregh99: "New Jersey is the toll booth capital of the world.  I can't back outta my farkin' driveway without some guy in a hat asking for twenty-five cents."
- George Carlin


/and that was back in the '80s.


A while back, they closed about have the toll plazas and doubled the toll at the remaining ones. Same total cost to drive it, but a whole lot less of a pain in the ass.
 
2014-04-30 12:51:09 PM  

Triple Oak: Don't raise taxes, just make us pay in other ways that aren't non-partisan. Fark toll roads, JUST RAISE THE TAX A LITTLE AND START PAYING FOR THE ROADS.


Well, they would, but with the House continuing to stonewall everything, there's about a snowball's chance in hell of something like that ever passing.

Hell, most of the major bridges in  the US and a few of the major dams could fall apart and kill thousands (or hundreds of thousands in the case of a dam bursting), and the House majority would sit on their asses and whistle, all the while blaming the President for their lack of doing their jobs.
 
2014-04-30 12:54:27 PM  
The current rule was that new interstates had to be 'free'; that is, no tolls and paid for through gas tax money. There was a prohibition to putting tolls on existing interstates until just recently, when FHWA began allowing limited numbers of projects where tolls were added to existing interstates to pay for widening projects, or to add "Lexus lanes" (dedicated HOV lanes). NC has applied for funding in the former case to widen I-95, putting tolls on the widened lanes to pay for them. If this revision is approved, states would be able to put a toll on an interstate to generate highway construction funds for projects in their state.

I can think of a lot of problems with that. The big one is that motorists are not going to be very appreciative of suddenly being forced to pay tolls on a previously free interstate. NC has struggled with this problem for years on how to find money to pay for improvements to I-95; it mostly services through state traffic travelling up and down the east coast, but enough NC motorists use it for local and regional travel that every time a toll was proposed it got dropped almost as fast due to strong opposition from NC motorists. Also, if the states are allowed to toll their interstates, does the money go back to the Fed highway fund or is it only for use in the state with the toll, and does the money have to be earmarked for interstate construction and upgrades? I can see some states arguing that it's their money, they can do damn well whatever they want with it.
 
2014-04-30 12:54:38 PM  

orclover: I-35 Toll Road in Austin coming soon to a populace of people refusing to use it. Gregg Abbot and the Texas congress heard orgasming in unison.


What are they going to do, use the other toll road that goes through Austin that they also refuse to use?

/Austin traffic is pretty bad
 
2014-04-30 12:54:47 PM  

ikanreed: Welp, there goes driving in every state with a republican government.


Funny story: at one time, Indiana's toll road was state run, good roads, plenty of booths, cheap, hardly ever congested. Mitch Daniels (R-oad Warrior) gets elected governor, sells it to a private group. Now roads full of potholes, ~5-10x the original cost of tolls, fewer booths and plenty of rush hour traffic. But hey, we're in a surplus now. Which is nice.
 
2014-04-30 01:04:08 PM  
I don't see this ever happening west of Texas and east of California.
 
2014-04-30 01:10:34 PM  

Linux_Yes: In other news....................the Wealthy and the huge companies they own are tired of paying taxes. they don't owe 'murica a damn thing.  in spite of having interstate highways that greatly benefit their businesses.

Solution: let the little people pay every time they get on the highway.  that way, we shift the tax burden down to the little people where it belongs and WE laugh all the way to the bank.


sounds like something, but it ain't Democracy and it  ain't a government of, by, and for The People.


Smartest thing I've heard you utter aside from your handle...
 
2014-04-30 01:12:35 PM  

AurizenDarkstar: Hell, most of the major bridges in the US and a few of the major dams could fall apart and kill thousands (or hundreds of thousands in the case of a dam bursting), and the House majority would sit on their asses and whistle, all the while blaming the President for their lack of doing their jobs.


Now now. They wouldn't just sit on their collective asses. There is plenty of time for repealing healthcare laws and banning Sharia law again.
 
2014-04-30 01:14:34 PM  

Triple Oak: Don't raise taxes, just make us pay in other ways that aren't non-partisan. Fark toll roads, JUST RAISE THE TAX A LITTLE AND START PAYING FOR THE ROADS.


How about cutting government spending on waste and use the surplus money for roads?

Gee, no one thought of that?
 
2014-04-30 01:16:30 PM  

Arkanaut: Isn't the New Jersey Turnpike already an interstate with a toll?


Yes and no

Also New Jersey is the only place where I95 North turns into I295 South, catch I195 East, to get onto the Turnpike, which is technically part of I95

All because the idiots in Princeton did not want to hear highway noises in their mansions.

Thanks Princeton
 
2014-04-30 01:17:11 PM  

Snarcoleptic_Hoosier: AurizenDarkstar: Hell, most of the major bridges in the US and a few of the major dams could fall apart and kill thousands (or hundreds of thousands in the case of a dam bursting), and the House majority would sit on their asses and whistle, all the while blaming the President for their lack of doing their jobs.

Now now. They wouldn't just sit on their collective asses. There is plenty of time for repealing healthcare laws and banning Sharia law again.


Don't forget the Sunday morning news programs. Early morning hair & makeup is a grueling ordeal.
 
2014-04-30 01:20:47 PM  

lilbjorn: There have been tolls on interstates since their Eisenhower administration.  How is this suddenly Obama's fault?


BECUZ FREEDUMS!

or something


[insert sparkly eagle gif here]
 
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