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(Voice of America)   Ukrainian Army on "full combat alert", also "full surrender alert", "full stomach alert", and "full of shiat alert"   (voanews.com) divider line 101
    More: Followup, Ukrainian, Ukraine, combat alert, OSCE, Atlantic Council, Kyiv, regional government, Donetsk  
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2103 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Apr 2014 at 12:36 PM (12 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



101 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-04-30 11:23:13 AM
Seems to me that Russia is brazenly gambling that we in the west won't do anything to stop them.

I'm surprised that anyone thinks this is all anti-Russia propaganda.

Ukraine is in a bit of a lose-lose scenario. They don't have the ability to stop Russia except with force, at which point Russia says "Hah! You used force, now we can too!" at which point it invades. They just want an excuse.
 
2014-04-30 11:58:19 AM

Slaxl: Seems to me that Russia is brazenly gambling that we in the west won't do anything to stop them.

I'm surprised that anyone thinks this is all anti-Russia propaganda.

Ukraine is in a bit of a lose-lose scenario. They don't have the ability to stop Russia except with force, at which point Russia says "Hah! You used force, now we can too!" at which point it invades. They just want an excuse.


I'm sort of thinking the same thing at this point. And I gotta admit, it bothers me that they seem to have a specific plan in play. We're hammering Russia with targeted sanctions, but the longer they're able to hold out, the dicier this becomes.
 
2014-04-30 12:17:05 PM

SmackLT: We're hammering Russia with targeted sanctions, but the longer they're able to hold out, the dicier this becomes.


I give them a month before the economy gets so bad for Russia that they have to do something drastic (either invade or pull out)
 
2014-04-30 12:38:20 PM

SmackLT: I'm sort of thinking the same thing at this point. And I gotta admit, it bothers me that they seem to have a specific plan in play. We're hammering Russia with targeted sanctions, but the longer they're able to hold out, the dicier this becomes.


When some of the higher ups have to start withdrawing their kids from European colleges because they can't pay tuition due to sanctions we'll see some movement.
 
2014-04-30 12:41:38 PM

SmackLT: Slaxl: Seems to me that Russia is brazenly gambling that we in the west won't do anything to stop them.

I'm surprised that anyone thinks this is all anti-Russia propaganda.

Ukraine is in a bit of a lose-lose scenario. They don't have the ability to stop Russia except with force, at which point Russia says "Hah! You used force, now we can too!" at which point it invades. They just want an excuse.

I'm sort of thinking the same thing at this point. And I gotta admit, it bothers me that they seem to have a specific plan in play. We're hammering Russia with targeted sanctions, but the longer they're able to hold out, the dicier this becomes.


A lot of us have been saying this from the beginning. History is full of examples, big and small, of what happens when land-grabbers aren't stopped after the first move.
 
2014-04-30 12:42:33 PM
api.ning.com
 
2014-04-30 12:42:37 PM

somedude210: SmackLT: We're hammering Russia with targeted sanctions, but the longer they're able to hold out, the dicier this becomes.

I give them a month before the economy gets so bad for Russia that they have to do something drastic (either invade or pull out)


I sincerely hope you're right about economic pressure working, but I'm very pessimistic about it.
 
2014-04-30 12:42:39 PM

Slaxl: Seems to me that Russia is brazenly gambling that we in the west won't do anything to stop them.

I'm surprised that anyone thinks this is all anti-Russia propaganda.

Ukraine is in a bit of a lose-lose scenario. They don't have the ability to stop Russia except with force, at which point Russia says "Hah! You used force, now we can too!" at which point it invades. They just want an excuse.


It's Poland that Russia has to worry about. They're ready to go if Russia invades.

We probably won't get involved militarily unless they invade a NATO nation
 
2014-04-30 12:44:35 PM
Full stomach and full of shiat seem like related alerts.
 
2014-04-30 12:46:46 PM

Carousel Beast: I sincerely hope you're right about economic pressure working, but I'm very pessimistic about it.


Unless Putin doesn't want friends. The sanctions don't affect him directly, but they really fark over his rich and powerful friend within the government who no longer can access their bank accounts and whatever wealth is in a bank somewhere. If the sanctions keep this up, I wouldn't be surprised if someone takes a shot at Putin.
 
2014-04-30 12:46:47 PM

Satanic_Hamster: SmackLT: I'm sort of thinking the same thing at this point. And I gotta admit, it bothers me that they seem to have a specific plan in play. We're hammering Russia with targeted sanctions, but the longer they're able to hold out, the dicier this becomes.

When some of the higher ups have to start withdrawing their kids from European colleges because they can't pay tuition due to sanctions we'll see some movement.


No we won't - Putin will annex those countries as well...
 
2014-04-30 12:48:14 PM
Can we just get to the nukes and be done with it? I want to try my hand at post-apocalyptic survival.

/I'll be dead in days
 
2014-04-30 12:48:37 PM
It must suck to be a Russian orphaned by their own country after the breakup of the USSR.  All the russians in the Ukraine were moved there by the USSR to get public support and prevent uprisings.

Russia should repatriate all the ethnic Russians from former countries that were part of the USSR and this crap would go away.
 
2014-04-30 12:48:39 PM

Klivian: Slaxl: Seems to me that Russia is brazenly gambling that we in the west won't do anything to stop them.

I'm surprised that anyone thinks this is all anti-Russia propaganda.

Ukraine is in a bit of a lose-lose scenario. They don't have the ability to stop Russia except with force, at which point Russia says "Hah! You used force, now we can too!" at which point it invades. They just want an excuse.

It's Poland that Russia has to worry about. They're ready to go if Russia invades.

We probably won't get involved militarily unless they invade a NATO nation


We might get involved if they invade the Ukraine.

We will certainly get involved if they invade a NATO country.

And if that happens...it could get very bad. I don't put use nuclear weapons outside the realm of possibility. Russia still has the "Dead Hand" fail-deadly nuclear launch system; if they activate it, I'm worried that 50 year old machines could wang up and launch even in the absence of an actual nuclear attack.
 
2014-04-30 12:51:04 PM
Submitter, do you enjoy sucking Putin's cock?

dwrash: Russia should repatriate all the ethnic Russians from former countries that were part of the USSR and this crap would go away.


It's almost as if that might be an excuse, and not the actual reason for Russia doing what they are.
 
2014-04-30 12:52:09 PM
So they are about to lose control... but do they think they like it?
 
2014-04-30 12:52:09 PM

Ned Stark: Full stomach and full of shiat seem like related alerts.


Brought on by full surrender to a big meal.
 
2014-04-30 12:52:33 PM

somedude210: Carousel Beast: I sincerely hope you're right about economic pressure working, but I'm very pessimistic about it.

Unless Putin doesn't want friends. The sanctions don't affect him directly, but they really fark over his rich and powerful friend within the government who no longer can access their bank accounts and whatever wealth is in a bank somewhere. If the sanctions keep this up, I wouldn't be surprised if someone takes a shot at Putin.


Hope so, but Russians have proven in the past they're perfectly willing to accept miserable conditions if they think they'll benefit more on the far side of it.
 
2014-04-30 12:52:38 PM
Stupid assholes should have asked for NATO help six months ago.

You let P do whatever he wanted without repercussion, so reap what you sow.
 
2014-04-30 12:52:49 PM

Slaxl: Ukraine is in a bit of a lose-lose scenario.


Are you saying it's a sitting duck, a road apple, that it's weak, it's feeble?
 
2014-04-30 12:54:46 PM

kbronsito: So they are about to lose control... but do they think they like it?


We should know soon - they're so excited, they just can't hide it.
 
2014-04-30 12:56:24 PM

ZzeusS: Stupid assholes should have asked for NATO help six months ago.

You let P do whatever he wanted without repercussion, so reap what you sow.


Um, they did.

We sent some supplies :-\
 
2014-04-30 12:56:31 PM

ZzeusS: Stupid assholes should have asked for NATO help six months ago.

You let P do whatever he wanted without repercussion, so reap what you sow.


i.imgur.com
 
2014-04-30 12:57:33 PM
kinda hard to convince the international community to fight for you when your own military just lets the russians walk right in.  you have one job....
 
2014-04-30 01:01:50 PM
Seems to me Ukraine's best hope is terrorism. They don't have the resources to fight the Russian military, but they could certainly hurt their civil society. The Maidan protesters were some tough farkers, I'm sure they could impose a high cost for Russian aggression.
 
2014-04-30 01:05:31 PM

JesusJuice: Seems to me Ukraine's best hope is terrorism. They don't have the resources to fight the Russian military, but they could certainly hurt their civil society. The Maidan protesters were some tough farkers, I'm sure they could impose a high cost for Russian aggression.


Exactly. They went nuts on their own government, they would be happy to treat the Russians much worse.
 
2014-04-30 01:08:51 PM

hardinparamedic: ZzeusS: Stupid assholes should have asked for NATO help six months ago.

You let P do whatever he wanted without repercussion, so reap what you sow.

[i.imgur.com image 708x1500]


WTFAQ?

What is this half-enlgish gibberish awesomeness mine eyes have just glimpsed?
 
2014-04-30 01:11:38 PM

ZzeusS: Stupid assholes should have asked for NATO help six months ago.

You let P do whatever he wanted without repercussion, so reap what you sow.


Six months ago a pro-Russian puppet was in charge.

But I guess you don't follow the news.
 
2014-04-30 01:11:41 PM

Pubby: WTFAQ?

What is this half-enlgish gibberish awesomeness mine eyes have just glimpsed?


Polandball!

i0.kym-cdn.com
 
2014-04-30 01:11:52 PM

JesusJuice: Seems to me Ukraine's best hope is terrorism. They don't have the resources to fight the Russian military, but they could certainly hurt their civil society. The Maidan protesters were some tough farkers, I'm sure they could impose a high cost for Russian aggression.


You're screwing up the dialog already, dude.  These people wouldn't be terrorists, they'd be "freedom fighters" or something like that.
 
2014-04-30 01:12:24 PM

jaytkay: JesusJuice: Seems to me Ukraine's best hope is terrorism. They don't have the resources to fight the Russian military, but they could certainly hurt their civil society. The Maidan protesters were some tough farkers, I'm sure they could impose a high cost for Russian aggression.

Exactly. They went nuts on their own government, they would be happy to treat the Russians much worse.


Ask the Hungarians and the Poles how that worked out for them...
 
2014-04-30 01:14:05 PM
...so they're preparing for another retreat?  Or are they going to channel Picard from First Contact:

We've made too many compromises already, too many retreats. They invade our space, and we fall back. They assimilate entire worlds, and we fall back. Not again. The line must be drawn here! This far, no further! And I will make them pay for what they've done!

It's been a while since we've had a good old fashioned European war.  Could be fun!
 
2014-04-30 01:15:52 PM

Klivian: Slaxl: Seems to me that Russia is brazenly gambling that we in the west won't do anything to stop them.

I'm surprised that anyone thinks this is all anti-Russia propaganda.

Ukraine is in a bit of a lose-lose scenario. They don't have the ability to stop Russia except with force, at which point Russia says "Hah! You used force, now we can too!" at which point it invades. They just want an excuse.

It's Poland that Russia has to worry about. They're ready to go if Russia invades.

We probably won't get involved militarily unless they invade a NATO nation


I agree with you but I wonder why OUR involvement seems to always be the top consideration. Where is the military support from European countries? It's their backyard.

From the article: "However, the European Union said it was ready to provide economic aid to Ukraine along with the IMF.

/send panzers Germany
//send the Legion -France
 
2014-04-30 01:15:53 PM

JesusJuice: Seems to me Ukraine's best hope is terrorism. They don't have the resources to fight the Russian military, but they could certainly hurt their civil society. The Maidan protesters were some tough farkers, I'm sure they could impose a high cost for Russian aggression.


Yeah and that was just a protest imagine those guys actually going guerrilla along with the Ukrainian army.  Think Russians in Afghanistan, except the 'Afghans' this time around have modern weapons and technology and are a whole lot more motivated.
 
2014-04-30 01:15:58 PM

lindalouwho: kbronsito: So they are about to lose control... but do they think they like it?

We should know soon - they're so excited, they just can't hide it.


They should just hold on loosely, but don't let go. That's what happens if you cling too tightly.
 
2014-04-30 01:16:28 PM
satwcomic.com
 
2014-04-30 01:16:55 PM

Plant Rights Activist: kinda hard to convince the international community to fight for you when your own military just lets the russians walk right in.  you have one job....


You do realize if Ukraine had moved in strong, that would be playing into Russia's hands as well by showing the heavy government oppression justifying Russian troops moving in to protect minorities.  The US/EU/UN has been counseling Ukraine to tread carefully and try to clear this insurgency with the upmost care.  Ultimately it may not matter, but you don't want to provoke a reaction that you cannot defend against.

What is really needed and would hurt Russia is strong EU sanctions.  Naturally the EU is reluctant to harm their own economies to punish Russia especially given how fragile many are. You don't want the gradually recovering economies to be shocked back into recession but really they are in the best position to harm Russia due to the balance of trade.  The US still has the hammer of hitting their financial system but they are saving that to try and dissuade Russia from acting and instead targeting individuals and countries but if it is used, that could force Putin to act quickly.
 
2014-04-30 01:18:09 PM
Also, I think it's time to send some Finns to the Ukranian border, see if the Russians remember.

x2.fjcdn.com
 
2014-04-30 01:18:30 PM

lindalouwho: A lot of us have been saying this from the beginning. History is full of examples, big and small, of what happens when land-grabbers aren't stopped after the first move.


The first move was violent Western backed protest and overthrow of a corrupt but elected government that was friendly to their biggest neighbor who supplied all their energy and fuel for discount prices.
 
2014-04-30 01:19:14 PM

Daedalus27: You do realize if Ukraine had moved in strong, that would be playing into Russia's hands as well by showing the heavy government oppression justifying Russian troops moving in to protect minorities. The US/EU/UN has been counseling Ukraine to tread carefully and try to clear this insurgency with the upmost care. Ultimately it may not matter, but you don't want to provoke a reaction that you cannot defend against.


Maybe the Ukrainian soldiers could just take the insignia off their uniforms and go in as "pro-Ukrainian protesters".  Symmetry?
 
2014-04-30 01:20:37 PM

Slaxl: Seems to me that Russia is brazenly gambling that we in the west won't do anything to stop them.

I'm surprised that anyone thinks this is all anti-Russia propaganda.

Ukraine is in a bit of a lose-lose scenario. They don't have the ability to stop Russia except with force, at which point Russia says "Hah! You used force, now we can too!" at which point it invades. They just want an excuse.


Is it gambling if you know they won't do anything except mild sanctions?
 
2014-04-30 01:20:52 PM
Seems like the best thing Western Ukraine can do is to bomb the media towers feeding all the crap to the East.
 
2014-04-30 01:21:35 PM

JesusJuice: The Maidan protesters were some tough farkers, I'm sure they could impose a high cost for Russian aggression.


You take my life, but I'll take yours, too,
you fire musket but I'll run you through...
 
2014-04-30 01:22:28 PM

Carousel Beast: somedude210: SmackLT: We're hammering Russia with targeted sanctions, but the longer they're able to hold out, the dicier this becomes.

I give them a month before the economy gets so bad for Russia that they have to do something drastic (either invade or pull out)

I sincerely hope you're right about economic pressure working, but I'm very pessimistic about it.


He isn't right. Obama refuses to target the energy sector of Russia and likewise the EU won't join in. That is the main driver of their economy. Hell, Obama even hand waived the fact we were still buying rockets from Russia and had no plans to stop.
 
2014-04-30 01:23:17 PM

flynn80: lindalouwho: A lot of us have been saying this from the beginning. History is full of examples, big and small, of what happens when land-grabbers aren't stopped after the first move.

The first move was violent Western backed protest and overthrow of a corrupt but elected government that was friendly to their biggest neighbor who supplied all their energy and fuel for discount prices.


To be fair there wasn't much actual support from the west and the violence was at most mutual between protesters and government if not primarily escalated by the government until Yanukovich fled . This is in contrast to Russian actual material support and troops infiltrating and facilitating the take over of segments of Ukraine.
 
2014-04-30 01:23:48 PM

somedude210: Carousel Beast: I sincerely hope you're right about economic pressure working, but I'm very pessimistic about it.

Unless Putin doesn't want friends. The sanctions don't affect him directly, but they really fark over his rich and powerful friend within the government who no longer can access their bank accounts and whatever wealth is in a bank somewhere. If the sanctions keep this up, I wouldn't be surprised if someone takes a shot at Putin.


In the first round less than half of those targeted had international accounts. They still will access their wealth in Russia. I dont know why you think we have power over the Russian banking system.
 
2014-04-30 01:25:34 PM

hardinparamedic: Submitter, do you enjoy sucking Putin's cock?

dwrash: Russia should repatriate all the ethnic Russians from former countries that were part of the USSR and this crap would go away.

It's almost as if that might be an excuse, and not the actual reason for Russia doing what they are.


Yay. This ignorant response. Pointing out failed policies does not make one a Putin cocksucker. Pretending it does just proves your own ignorance.
 
2014-04-30 01:25:44 PM

lindalouwho: kbronsito: So they are about to lose control... but do they think they like it?

We should know soon - they're so excited, they just can't hide it.


I bet Putin has made them so excited that they are scared.

media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com
 
2014-04-30 01:26:24 PM
Pubby:
Ask the Hungarians and the Poles how that worked out for them...

Whole different ball of wax than way back when in '56 or '68 (in Prague, CZ); as we have seen civil war in Yugoslavia when she broke up... lots of repressed aggression and score settling to be had if the Russian Army/ pro-russian sympathizers get into the wrong neighborhoods/ countryside/ countries... You read any news about how West-Ukrainians are welcoming their russian armed friends with open arms? right, you're not... and now that Poland, the Lat/Lith/Est are part of NATO ( and has Iraq and A-stan trained army vets). It would be guerilla war blood bath for the poorly trained/ motivated Russian conscripts... ( time to go back and read a few years of how bad the russian army is/ funded/ trained/ conscripts not showing up for their draft induction day)... go ahead Puttie, take on some seriously motivated countries who don't have the mixed up demographics that eastern Ukraine does...
 
2014-04-30 01:27:16 PM
Maybe it's the conspiracy theorist in me, but all I see is stagecraft.  Wars need the support of the people to drive enlistment and funding, and it's a much bigger challenge to get the public riled up in the information age, and 'they' just keep making attempt after attempt to find an issue that people respond to.

2 springs ago US started rattling the war sabers about Iran being the nuclear boogeyman, and the public collectively said 'meh'.
Last spring US started rattling the war sabers about North Korea being the nuclear boogeyman, and the public collectively said 'meh'.

So after 2 failed attempts at stirring up war-fever, now this spring Russia has conveniently and inexplicably started causing trouble and escalating things.  Feels like the US gov finally found the dance partner it's been looking for, and whether it becomes something, or fizzles, rests solely on the interest level of the American public.

Ironically, it seems like the best thing the American public can do to maintain peace in the world, is keep watching sitcoms and playing Xbox.  We need you more than ever folks, keep your heads low, and your apathy high.
 
2014-04-30 01:28:46 PM

hardinparamedic: ZzeusS: Stupid assholes should have asked for NATO help six months ago.

You let P do whatever he wanted without repercussion, so reap what you sow.

[i.imgur.com image 708x1500]


I didn't know Meow made comics.
 
2014-04-30 01:28:52 PM

jshine: Daedalus27: You do realize if Ukraine had moved in strong, that would be playing into Russia's hands as well by showing the heavy government oppression justifying Russian troops moving in to protect minorities. The US/EU/UN has been counseling Ukraine to tread carefully and try to clear this insurgency with the upmost care. Ultimately it may not matter, but you don't want to provoke a reaction that you cannot defend against.

Maybe the Ukrainian soldiers could just take the insignia off their uniforms and go in as "pro-Ukrainian protesters".  Symmetry?


It is a possibility, but if Russia is looking for an excuse, they can fabricate proof like they did with that checkpoint shootout staging the rusty shot up car and pristine business card purporting the attackers to be a Right wing Ukrainian group as evidnence.  Russia isn't playing by the same rules and cares little about the "truth" with the media being controlled by Putin can spin whatever tale he likes. You have to also realize that Ukraine is fighting what it considers it's own people while Putin and the supporters see the Ukrainians as mere pawns to be used and discarded.  So the tactics and willingness to use force are not equivalent as if Russia fails, who cares but if the Ukrainians somehow retain the Eastern portions, they do have to try and live with and maintain control.  A democratic type government has to maintain legitimacy of the governed (in the ideal) where as an autocrat like Putin can use force, favors, and fears to rule.
 
2014-04-30 01:29:35 PM
Queue up Hell March. Red ALERT!
 
2014-04-30 01:31:55 PM

Satanic_Hamster: When some of the higher ups have to start withdrawing their kids from European colleges because they can't pay tuition

can't pay their tribute money to Putin
due to sanctions we'll see some movement.

Fixed?
 
2014-04-30 01:33:03 PM

MyRandomName: Obama refuses to target the energy sector of Russia and likewise the EU won't join in.


Exxon and Shell would never allow energy sanctions.
 
2014-04-30 01:33:46 PM
So what's the point of having a national army if they're this farking incompetent?

I dunno, perhaps we can round up 800-1000 Russian speaking US soldiers or maybe ex-soldiers, put them in Ukrainian uniforms and have them kick some ass.  Wouldn't be a lot different from what the Russians are doing.
 
2014-04-30 01:37:16 PM

Satanic_Hamster: SmackLT: I'm sort of thinking the same thing at this point. And I gotta admit, it bothers me that they seem to have a specific plan in play. We're hammering Russia with targeted sanctions, but the longer they're able to hold out, the dicier this becomes.

When some of the higher ups have to start withdrawing their kids from European colleges because they can't pay tuition due to sanctions we'll see some movement.


I'm more worried about a news blackout or some kind of communications disruption.
 
2014-04-30 01:39:04 PM

Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: maybe ex-soldiers


Ah, a new assignment for Blackwater Xe Services Academi, you say?
 
2014-04-30 01:42:07 PM
Daedalus27:
"You do realize if Ukraine had ....
What is really needed and would hurt Russia is strong EU sanctions...."



You may be interested in world affairs, but 99% of farkers are just about snark.   They could care less if people in Ukraine are oppressed, depressed or repressed.

Second, as you said.... the EU is going to do next to nothing via sanctions.   Yet THEY are the key to pressuring Russia.    The US is not.   We divested a loooong time ago.

Good luck Ukraine, but NATO is not coming.  The EU and US are not really serious about helping.

Russia has all the control.      It's up to them.
 
2014-04-30 01:43:04 PM

kbronsito: So they are about to lose control... but do they think they like it?


Oh wow...now I feel...old (36).  I never liked that song but I remember it.  I'm so excited.
 
2014-04-30 01:48:41 PM

MyRandomName: hardinparamedic: Submitter, do you enjoy sucking Putin's cock?

dwrash: Russia should repatriate all the ethnic Russians from former countries that were part of the USSR and this crap would go away.

It's almost as if that might be an excuse, and not the actual reason for Russia doing what they are.

Yay. This ignorant response. Pointing out failed policies does not make one a Putin cocksucker. Pretending it does just proves your own ignorance.


Awwww. Did I hurt the little agitpropist's feelings?
 
2014-04-30 01:51:32 PM

netcentric: Daedalus27:
"You do realize if Ukraine had ....
What is really needed and would hurt Russia is strong EU sanctions...."


You may be interested in world affairs, but 99% of farkers are just about snark.   They could care less if people in Ukraine are oppressed, depressed or repressed.

Second, as you said.... the EU is going to do next to nothing via sanctions.   Yet THEY are the key to pressuring Russia.    The US is not.   We divested a loooong time ago.

Good luck Ukraine, but NATO is not coming.  The EU and US are not really serious about helping.

Russia has all the control.      It's up to them.


I agree that too many individuals have little interest in foreign affairs. The EU is the key on pressuring Russia as they do significantly more business and trade, but that fact makes them reluctant to act.  Who can blame them given it would be the equivalent of a trade disruption between the US and China or say the US and Mexico/Canada which would cause massive economic damage.

We do have one tool that can inflict some significant damage.  Cut Russia off from the banking system (like we have done with Iran) by imposing sanctions across the board on the financial system. We can do it with US banks and the European banks generally will follow suit as they don't want to create issues with US regulators and banks that they have a lot of business with. Oil is still primarily a dollar business and if they can't clear their sales, Russia will be in a world of hurt.  However this is the sanctions equivalent of a nuclear weapon and after it is used, we have nothing left and could actually trigger Russia to move in as at that point they have little to lose as the damage has been done. I just don't see the US using this unless there is no choice and instead the US will continue to pick on individual Russian politicains and oligarchs (who are the same in many cases).
 
2014-04-30 01:53:47 PM
Wait until the Russians actually take over and realize each person there will cost them much more than $10 per day.
 
2014-04-30 01:55:29 PM

netcentric: Daedalus27:
"You do realize if Ukraine had ....
What is really needed and would hurt Russia is strong EU sanctions...."


You may be interested in world affairs, but 99% of farkers are just about snark.   They could care less if people in Ukraine are oppressed, depressed or repressed.

Second, as you said.... the EU is going to do next to nothing via sanctions.   Yet THEY are the key to pressuring Russia.    The US is not.   We divested a loooong time ago.

Good luck Ukraine, but NATO is not coming.  The EU and US are not really serious about helping.

Russia has all the control.      It's up to them.


http://www.voanews.com/content/amid-ukraine-crisis-us-begins-militar y- drills-in-poland/1899245.html

We'll see.  If Poland goes in, I think we will too, although not with huge forces.
 
2014-04-30 01:55:39 PM
Will Ukraine and Russia just fark already!? Seriously, this is starting to get out of hand here.
 
2014-04-30 01:55:47 PM
The EU needs to step up.  This is their back yard.  Quit sitting on your hands and hoping the US will clean it up for you.
 
2014-04-30 01:57:49 PM

MyRandomName: hardinparamedic: Submitter, do you enjoy sucking Putin's cock?

dwrash: Russia should repatriate all the ethnic Russians from former countries that were part of the USSR and this crap would go away.

It's almost as if that might be an excuse, and not the actual reason for Russia doing what they are.

Yay. This ignorant response. Pointing out failed policies does not make one a Putin cocksucker. Pretending it does just proves your own ignorance.


What were Ukraine's failed policies?

Making Putin leader of Russia?
 
2014-04-30 02:01:22 PM

Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: So what's the point of having a national army if they're this farking incompetent?

I dunno, perhaps we can round up 800-1000 Russian speaking US soldiers or maybe ex-soldiers, put them in Ukrainian uniforms and have them kick some ass.  Wouldn't be a lot different from what the Russians are doing.


Did you yell "Wolverines!" while you typed that with one hand?
 
2014-04-30 02:12:11 PM

jaytkay: MyRandomName: hardinparamedic: Submitter, do you enjoy sucking Putin's cock?

dwrash: Russia should repatriate all the ethnic Russians from former countries that were part of the USSR and this crap would go away.

It's almost as if that might be an excuse, and not the actual reason for Russia doing what they are.

Yay. This ignorant response. Pointing out failed policies does not make one a Putin cocksucker. Pretending it does just proves your own ignorance.

What were Ukraine's failed policies?

Making Putin leader of Russia?


I feel like i am dealing with a bunch of block heads today.

The only reason there are so many ethnic Russians in Ukraine is the politburo of the old USSR forced settled them there to prevent uprisings and to have better Russian support.  When the USSR dissolved they were stranded in hostile territory (do you actually think the Ukrainians wanted them there in the first place?)

Russia should invite them to move back to Russia instead of using them as an excuse to annex Crimea and probably more of the Ukraine in the near future.
 
2014-04-30 02:17:02 PM

dwrash: It must suck to be a Russian orphaned by their own country after the breakup of the USSR.


It will suck even more after the next Russia pullback, because then the countries they get left behind in will just ethnically cleanse them, now that they've seen the consequences of not ethnically cleansing them.
 
2014-04-30 02:24:13 PM

This text is now purple: dwrash: It must suck to be a Russian orphaned by their own country after the breakup of the USSR.

It will suck even more after the next Russia pullback, because then the countries they get left behind in will just ethnically cleanse them, now that they've seen the consequences of not ethnically cleansing them.


Ethnically cleanse or execute the invaders... it all depends on your point of view.

I don't agree with either BTW... but can understand the resentment from the locals.... especially after Crimea.
 
2014-04-30 02:32:26 PM

This text is now purple: dwrash: It must suck to be a Russian orphaned by their own country after the breakup of the USSR.

It will suck even more after the next Russia pullback, because then the countries they get left behind in will just ethnically cleanse them, now that they've seen the consequences of not ethnically cleansing them.


Lots of Ukrainians have ties to both countries and pride at belonging to both societies.

Now Putin has created a blood feud among them.

It's sad he has so many fans.
 
2014-04-30 02:48:11 PM

dwrash: jaytkay: MyRandomName: hardinparamedic: Submitter, do you enjoy sucking Putin's cock?

dwrash: Russia should repatriate all the ethnic Russians from former countries that were part of the USSR and this crap would go away.

It's almost as if that might be an excuse, and not the actual reason for Russia doing what they are.

Yay. This ignorant response. Pointing out failed policies does not make one a Putin cocksucker. Pretending it does just proves your own ignorance.

What were Ukraine's failed policies?

Making Putin leader of Russia?

I feel like i am dealing with a bunch of block heads today.

The only reason there are so many ethnic Russians in Ukraine is the politburo of the old USSR forced settled them there to prevent uprisings and to have better Russian support.  When the USSR dissolved they were stranded in hostile territory (do you actually think the Ukrainians wanted them there in the first place?)

Russia should invite them to move back to Russia instead of using them as an excuse to annex Crimea and probably more of the Ukraine in the near future.


These people identify themselves as Ukrainians for the most part (outside of Crimea).  They are Russian speaking Ukrainians.  Recent polls show that only about 18-20% support any transfer over to Russia.  In cities such as Odessa, where there is a large Russian speaking Jewish population, there is even less.  These are the folks setting up barricades etc to stop Russian provocateurs from stirring shiat up.  If Russian military moved into southern or even parts of eastern Ukraine, there could be a serious conflict.  Never mind moving into Central or Western Ukraine, they'd be dead there.  History is long and not forgotten
 
2014-04-30 02:50:49 PM
Mike Baker, some former CIA analyst, was on Opie and Anthony yesterday and briefly talked about this situation.  He said he expects to see Russia in Eastern Ukraine within 3-4 days.

*May Day is tomorrow, and  Putin has said that the collapse of the SU was the biggest disaster of the 20th century - here's his chance to restore some glory.
*Merkel has said after talking to Putin that something doesnt seem right with him
*The US has been downplaying the 'superpower' thing and Putin sees a gap to be top dog again
*Putin has been completely unchecked thus far
 
2014-04-30 02:51:39 PM
Check out the pic on Drudge (I wish I can find the underlying article).  Whatever else happens, there will probably not be a problem of too many cans littering the ground.

l1.yimg.com
 
2014-04-30 03:11:50 PM

dittybopper: JesusJuice: The Maidan protesters were some tough farkers, I'm sure they could impose a high cost for Russian aggression.

You take my life, but I'll take yours, too,
you fire musket but I'll run you through...


Leaving now to play this on Rocksmith.

/over and over
//poorly
 
2014-04-30 03:12:13 PM

SmackLT: Slaxl: Seems to me that Russia is brazenly gambling that we in the west won't do anything to stop them.

I'm surprised that anyone thinks this is all anti-Russia propaganda.

Ukraine is in a bit of a lose-lose scenario. They don't have the ability to stop Russia except with force, at which point Russia says "Hah! You used force, now we can too!" at which point it invades. They just want an excuse.

I'm sort of thinking the same thing at this point. And I gotta admit, it bothers me that they seem to have a specific plan in play. We're hammering Russia with targeted sanctions, but the longer they're able to hold out, the dicier this becomes.


http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2014/04/22/germany-helped-prep -r ussia-for-war-u-s-sources-say.html

Well guess who taught Russia how to take SudetenCrimea. ;)

---

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10654239/Po li sh-foreign-minister-warns-Ukraine-protest-leaders-Sign-deal-or-you-wil l-all-die.html

Ukraine seems kinda farked, and I wonder if they now are reconsidering the Polish foreign ministers advice to them.
 
2014-04-30 03:14:33 PM

Contrabulous Flabtraption: Can we just get to the nukes and be done with it? I want to try my hand at post-apocalyptic survival.

/I'll be dead in days


We?

I'm sorry, is USA welcome to meddle in the business of Europe?
 
2014-04-30 03:17:12 PM
Hey, Royssia.  Hands of the chicken, and no one gets hurt!

img.fark.net
 
2014-04-30 03:20:52 PM

svanmeter: Klivian: Slaxl: Seems to me that Russia is brazenly gambling that we in the west won't do anything to stop them.

I'm surprised that anyone thinks this is all anti-Russia propaganda.

Ukraine is in a bit of a lose-lose scenario. They don't have the ability to stop Russia except with force, at which point Russia says "Hah! You used force, now we can too!" at which point it invades. They just want an excuse.

It's Poland that Russia has to worry about. They're ready to go if Russia invades.

We probably won't get involved militarily unless they invade a NATO nation

I agree with you but I wonder why OUR involvement seems to always be the top consideration. Where is the military support from European countries? It's their backyard.

From the article: "However, the European Union said it was ready to provide economic aid to Ukraine along with the IMF.

/send panzers Germany
//send the Legion -France


Or the EU is sending a strong message as to what happends when you break the deals with the EU, and let the nazis loose. (Ukraine broke the deal EU made, in case you're not up to speed on how this went down).

See anything you like Greece?
 
2014-04-30 03:25:29 PM

hardinparamedic: ZzeusS: Stupid assholes should have asked for NATO help six months ago.

You let P do whatever he wanted without repercussion, so reap what you sow.

[i.imgur.com image 708x1500]


Nice seeing that got traction.
 
2014-04-30 03:28:21 PM

Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: So what's the point of having a national army if they're this farking incompetent?

I dunno, perhaps we can round up 800-1000 Russian speaking US soldiers or maybe ex-soldiers, put them in Ukrainian uniforms and have them kick some ass.  Wouldn't be a lot different from what the Russians are doing.


Yes, someone that is not USA could do this.

Go back to your sitcoms, you're disqualified from the world.
 
2014-04-30 03:31:34 PM

Angela Lansbury's Merkin: The EU needs to step up.  This is their back yard.  Quit sitting on your hands and hoping the US will clean it up for you.


Get over yourself.
 
2014-04-30 03:34:25 PM

dwrash: This text is now purple: dwrash: It must suck to be a Russian orphaned by their own country after the breakup of the USSR.

It will suck even more after the next Russia pullback, because then the countries they get left behind in will just ethnically cleanse them, now that they've seen the consequences of not ethnically cleansing them.

Ethnically cleanse or execute the invaders... it all depends on your point of view.

I don't agree with either BTW... but can understand the resentment from the locals.... especially after Crimea.


What you're more likely to see is mass deportations, rather than killing people. No first or second world power (IE Eastern Europe) wants the bad publicity of killing off a ton of people in their borders when they can just kick them out instead.
 
2014-04-30 03:35:41 PM
We need to protect the other Mila Kunis type Ukrainians from the evil Russians.
 
2014-04-30 03:35:58 PM
The problem is any sanctions that will have any major impact on Russia must be energy related, and since 30% of the EU's natural gas comes from Russia, they're not gonna sign onto such sanctions until they become less reliant on Russia for energy, which could take years.  The US does relatively little trade with Russia in the first place as compared to the EU, so we'd be more than happy to impose those types of sanctions, however w/o the EU going along it's not going to have much of an impact.  In fact, it would be a sign of weakness in the West if the US and the EU did not impose such sanctions multilaterally.
 
2014-04-30 03:39:45 PM

Angela Lansbury's Merkin: The EU needs to step up.  This is their back yard.  Quit sitting on your hands and hoping the US will clean it up for you.


Meh, I'm not normally one for jingoism, but the EU are led by a bunch of navel-gazing pantywaists.  It's doubtful they'd intervene unless Putin lobbed a nuke at Paris.  ...and even then, it's doubtful there'd be any consequences more severe than economic sanctions.

/ though, I'm certainly not advocating the US taking a leading role; if the Europeans refuse to act within their own sphere of influence, there's no reason the US should intervene
 
rpl
2014-04-30 03:47:52 PM
dwrash: It must suck to be a Russian orphaned by their own country after the breakup of the USSR.  All the russians in the Ukraine were moved there by the USSR to get public support and prevent uprisings.

You're thinking of Crimea, not Ukraine. The Russians lived in Ukraine since it had a 'the' prefixed to it.  Either way; the vote for Ukraine separating from the USSR was pretty much unanimous on behalf of all the residents, regardless of ethnicity. Kinda like with Crimea just now.

Russia should repatriate all the ethnic Russians from former countries that were part of the USSR and this crap would go away.

A major chunk of Ukraine was added to it from Russian territory by the bolsheviks, why should its native Russian population be evicted?

Should Turkey repatriate the Crimean Tatars? Should the Ukrainians themselves then be split between Russia, Lithuania and Poland (and I guess Mongolia too)? Should every other country in the world then follow the example? If not, then why?

No wonder you guys can't do anything right in the middle east
 
2014-04-30 03:55:25 PM
I've been to Ukraine. If I were an ethnic Russian living in eastern Ukraine, I'd probably be on the fence about this whole deal. As bad as Putin is, at least Russia seems a bit more competently run than Ukraine, which is pretty much controlled by the mob since the government is a back-and-forth gridlock war between neoliberals and old-time Bolshies. And there's no chance of being discriminated against for being an ethnic Russian in Russia, which is a real danger if some of the Ukrainian nationalists get more power.

/Not saying what Russia's doing is right, and not saying the West shouldn't strongly oppose them. But Ukraine is jacked up even without Russia screwing with it.
 
2014-04-30 03:56:42 PM

Dalrint: What you're more likely to see is mass deportations, rather than killing people. No first or second world power (IE Eastern Europe) wants the bad publicity of killing off a ton of people in their borders when they can just kick them out instead.


It's tricky when no one will take them. Sort of like Jordan refusing to take the Palestinians back.
 
rpl
2014-04-30 03:56:51 PM

codigo: We need to protect the other Mila Kunis type Ukrainians from the evil Russians.


You mean Jews?
 
2014-04-30 04:23:26 PM

rpl: codigo: We need to protect the other Mila Kunis type Ukrainians from the evil Russians.

You mean Jews?


Only the sexy ones.
 
2014-04-30 04:34:43 PM

CivicMindedFive: Check out the pic on Drudge (I wish I can find the underlying article).  Whatever else happens, there will probably not be a problem of too many cans littering the ground.

[l1.yimg.com image 749x421]


Get out of here, Stalker!
 
2014-04-30 05:03:19 PM

netcentric: Daedalus27:
"You do realize if Ukraine had ....
What is really needed and would hurt Russia is strong EU sanctions...."


You may be interested in world affairs, but 99% of farkers are just about snark.   They could care less if people in Ukraine are oppressed, depressed or repressed.

Second, as you said.... the EU is going to do next to nothing via sanctions.   Yet THEY are the key to pressuring Russia.    The US is not.   We divested a loooong time ago.

Good luck Ukraine, but NATO is not coming.  The EU and US are not really serious about helping.

Russia has all the control.      It's up to them.


You completely ignore the military alliance we have with Poland and others in the area. And the military buildup in the area, even if it is mostly token forces.

Poland will go to the mat for Ukraine. And they will draw the Baltic states (also NATO) and Moldavia (also NATO) alongside. I'm sure Bulgaria and possibly Romania will get involved. Turkey will because their SOB autocrat wants to divert attention at home away from domestic problems and move as much of the military as far away as possible.

And Russia will be contained. Our weapons dealers will have big paydays, people in Eastern Europe will get some payback and we should only get involved if Russia managed to occupy one of our allies.
 
2014-04-30 05:22:53 PM

BolloxReader: Poland will go to the mat for Ukraine. And they will draw the Baltic states (also NATO) and Moldavia (also NATO) alongside. I'm sure Bulgaria and possibly Romania will get involved. Turkey will because their SOB autocrat wants to divert attention at home away from domestic problems and move as much of the military as far away as possible.


-It would be a stretch to think that any NATO member would be an aggressor, but if any did jump the gun, Poland and Turkey would be the first guesses.
-Moldova is not part of NATO, and is already in a similar boat with Ukraine
 
2014-04-30 05:27:14 PM

blank_czech: dittybopper: JesusJuice: The Maidan protesters were some tough farkers, I'm sure they could impose a high cost for Russian aggression.

You take my life, but I'll take yours, too,
you fire musket but I'll run you through...

Leaving now to play this on Rocksmith.

/over and over
//poorly


Does Rocksmith actually teach you how to play the guitar? Coincidentally I just bought a guitar a week ago and haven't found a teacher yet.
 
2014-04-30 05:39:10 PM

The Bestest: BolloxReader: Poland will go to the mat for Ukraine. And they will draw the Baltic states (also NATO) and Moldavia (also NATO) alongside. I'm sure Bulgaria and possibly Romania will get involved. Turkey will because their SOB autocrat wants to divert attention at home away from domestic problems and move as much of the military as far away as possible.

-It would be a stretch to think that any NATO member would be an aggressor, but if any did jump the gun, Poland and Turkey would be the first guesses.
-Moldova is not part of NATO, and is already in a similar boat with Ukraine


I don't think mutual defense treaties apply when a signatory nation is the aggressor to a conflict.
 
2014-04-30 06:35:25 PM

Marmilman: blank_czech: dittybopper: JesusJuice: The Maidan protesters were some tough farkers, I'm sure they could impose a high cost for Russian aggression.

You take my life, but I'll take yours, too,
you fire musket but I'll run you through...

Leaving now to play this on Rocksmith.

/over and over
//poorly

Does Rocksmith actually teach you how to play the guitar? Coincidentally I just bought a guitar a week ago and haven't found a teacher yet.


You need to pluck the strings at the bottom while pushing the strings at the top.
 
2014-04-30 09:13:44 PM

Marshmallow Jones: Mike Baker, some former CIA analyst, was on Opie and Anthony yesterday and briefly talked about this situation.  He said he expects to see Russia in Eastern Ukraine within 3-4 days.

*May Day is tomorrow, and  Putin has said that the collapse of the SU was the biggest disaster of the 20th century - here's his chance to restore some glory.
*Merkel has said after talking to Putin that something doesnt seem right with him
*The US has been downplaying the 'superpower' thing and Putin sees a gap to be top dog again
*Putin has been completely unchecked thus far


Hmmmm....

There has to be a plan in place already, just in case. Right? RIGHT??!!!??111?
 
2014-04-30 10:34:12 PM

JesusJuice: Marmilman: blank_czech: dittybopper: JesusJuice: The Maidan protesters were some tough farkers, I'm sure they could impose a high cost for Russian aggression.

You take my life, but I'll take yours, too,
you fire musket but I'll run you through...

Leaving now to play this on Rocksmith.

/over and over
//poorly

Does Rocksmith actually teach you how to play the guitar? Coincidentally I just bought a guitar a week ago and haven't found a teacher yet.

You need to pluck the strings at the bottom while pushing the strings at the top.


Sage advice.
 
2014-05-01 12:46:59 AM

Slaxl: Seems to me that Russia is brazenly gambling that we in the west won't do anything to stop them.

I'm surprised that anyone thinks this is all anti-Russia propaganda.

Ukraine is in a bit of a lose-lose scenario. They don't have the ability to stop Russia except with force, at which point Russia says "Hah! You used force, now we can too!" at which point it invades. They just want an excuse.


It's not really a brazen gamble when they pretty much know it to be fact, honestly. Sorry Ukraine, your best bet is to hold out for 2 more years when we elect someone who's a vertebrate that realizes we actually have a treaty with you.
 
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