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(Mother Jones)   Will this untested drug combination actually kill someone? We'll find out tonight with a fresh 'guinea pig' from Oklahoma that's on death row   (motherjones.com) divider line 433
    More: Interesting, Oklahoma, Death Penalty Information Center, sodium thiopental, death row inmates, Eric Roberts, Oklahoma Supreme Court, lethal injection, death row  
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4464 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Apr 2014 at 8:06 PM (25 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-29 07:47:29 PM  
Do they have a licensed medical professional such as an MD or a PA or an NP involved??

If so, that, person should lose their license.
 
2014-04-29 08:09:45 PM  
Meh... fark'em.
 
2014-04-29 08:10:31 PM  
Seems like a chemical cocktail of Carbon Dioxide in a sealed room is well proven and effective. Not to mention, dry ice is readily available.
 
2014-04-29 08:10:36 PM  

Ontos: Meh... fark'em.


before or after?
 
2014-04-29 08:12:00 PM  
"....secretly aquired..."

If it's from a heroin dealer at least it shouldn't be another fiasco.

/hope to see us stop this shiat in my lifetime
//old, hurry up please
 
2014-04-29 08:12:01 PM  
Considering what they did to their victims, they deserve a little torture. fark'em
 
2014-04-29 08:12:18 PM  

vernonFL: Do they have a licensed medical professional such as an MD or a PA or an NP involved??

If so, that, person should lose their license.


Every state that does lethal injection has a law which exempts the people involved from having to have a prescription to purchase the drugs. They do this because every profession - from Nursing, to MD, to EMTs and Paramedics, has a body which has said "While we do not have the ability to bar you from practice in medicine for doing so, DO NOT participate as it's a violation of your ethical guidelines"

That said, most places use LPN and EMT-trained guards to establish an IV, and then an untrained guard to push the drugs.

On a side note, Versed and Pavulon are not untested. But WTF are they using a Paralytic. Just push 25mg of Ativan and 50mg of Dilaudid rapidly through a centrally located IV.
 
2014-04-29 08:12:53 PM  
It will probably just give worms to his ex-girlfriend.
 
2014-04-29 08:13:22 PM  

Kit Fister: Seems like a chemical cocktail of Carbon Dioxide in a sealed room is well proven and effective. Not to mention, dry ice is readily available.


Which would meet the constitutional prohibition of Cruel and Unusual. Carbon Dioxide asphyxia is horribly painful and torturous as a way to die.

Nitrogen is the way to go if you're going to do that. The body gets hypoxic, but carbon dioxide is still removed, meaning that they don't feel pain.
 
2014-04-29 08:13:55 PM  
On April 23, the Oklahoma Supreme Court, whose justices are now being threatened by the Legislature with impeachment, caved and allowed the executions to move forward.

Way to stand on principle, guys.


DubyaHater: Considering what they did to their victims, they deserve a little torture. fark'em


Right-wingers LOVE the constitution until they don't.
 
2014-04-29 08:14:30 PM  
Three guns, three bullets, three volunteers from a pool of people I select with a to be decided eligibility battery. No cops or lawyers. Lots of doctors, teachers, and zookeepers etc. People who, vocationally, aren't likely to want to kill anyone.

The condemned gets to tell their story one last time. After the rifles are issued. One last cigarette and if they choose not to fire, the sentence is commuted and regardless the volunteers are struck from the eligibility pool and given a counseling hotline.
 
2014-04-29 08:15:01 PM  
So is this the asshole that raped and murdered a child or the asshole who shot the girl in the stomach and buried her alive?

I'm trying real hard to be upset that they might feel discomfort as they die but just can't quite manage.
 
2014-04-29 08:15:05 PM  
I say "Death...by boolah boolah"
 
2014-04-29 08:15:11 PM  
Seems that a syringe full of air would do the trick. Pretty cheap too.
 
2014-04-29 08:15:40 PM  

DubyaHater: Considering what they did to their victims, they deserve a little torture. fark'em


But if they screw it up you end up with the family witnessing it freak out. People just don't have the stomach for a good execution anymore. No picnics allowed and they don't even bother rubbing the blood of the executed on the face of the little children at their first show.
 
2014-04-29 08:16:05 PM  
Such patriots, these men. Even in the shadow of imminent death, they care only about the honor of the Constitution.
 
2014-04-29 08:16:32 PM  
Bullshiat. Plenty of junkies have tested hydromorphone and it killed them just fine.
 
2014-04-29 08:17:24 PM  

fusillade762: On April 23, the Oklahoma Supreme Court, whose justices are now being threatened by the Legislature with impeachment, caved and allowed the executions to move forward.

Way to stand on principle, guys.


DubyaHater: Considering what they did to their victims, they deserve a little torture. fark'em

Right-wingers LOVE the constitution until they don't.


Pretty easy to be sanctimonious when it wasn't one of your family members who was the victim of this guy.
 
2014-04-29 08:18:18 PM  
I had to look up these guys did. Both horrible humans that do not deserve to draw breath.

A farking BABY?
 
2014-04-29 08:18:32 PM  
Firing squad
 
2014-04-29 08:19:25 PM  

hardinparamedic: vernonFL: Do they have a licensed medical professional such as an MD or a PA or an NP involved??

If so, that, person should lose their license.

Every state that does lethal injection has a law which exempts the people involved from having to have a prescription to purchase the drugs. They do this because every profession - from Nursing, to MD, to EMTs and Paramedics, has a body which has said "While we do not have the ability to bar you from practice in medicine for doing so, DO NOT participate as it's a violation of your ethical guidelines"

That said, most places use LPN and EMT-trained guards to establish an IV, and then an untrained guard to push the drugs.

On a side note, Versed and Pavulon are not untested. But WTF are they using a Paralytic. Just push 25mg of Ativan and 50mg of Dilaudid rapidly through a centrally located IV.


The paralytic keeps them from convulsing and putting on a show

By the way, do not believe everything you read in Mother Jones about the McGuire execution
 
2014-04-29 08:19:42 PM  
Pssst, hey Oklahoma...c'mere. I have a cousin who knows some else who can get you some sodium thiopentalat a good price. Just meet me at midnight behind the 7-11 and bring a briefcase full of a million dollars.
 
2014-04-29 08:20:36 PM  
hardinparamedic:
On a side note, Versed and Pavulon are not untested. But WTF are they using a Paralytic. Just push 25mg of Ativan and 50mg of Dilaudid rapidly through a centrally located IV.

Because it makes the people watching uncomfortable, what with the death rattle and all.  The paralytic is just for the viewers.
 
2014-04-29 08:21:09 PM  

TerminalEchoes: fusillade762: On April 23, the Oklahoma Supreme Court, whose justices are now being threatened by the Legislature with impeachment, caved and allowed the executions to move forward.

Way to stand on principle, guys.


DubyaHater: Considering what they did to their victims, they deserve a little torture. fark'em

Right-wingers LOVE the constitution until they don't.

Pretty easy to be sanctimonious when it wasn't one of your family members who was the victim of this guy.


As a single-payer loving, gay marriage wanting, redistribution encouraging left winger, allow me to say these farkers should die
 
2014-04-29 08:22:18 PM  
I'm not exactly a fan of the death penalty, but if we're going to do it, we should use the guillotine.

Quick, effective, and about as close to painless as you can get.
 
2014-04-29 08:22:45 PM  
hardinparamedic:

Nitrogen is the way to go if you're going to do that. The body gets hypoxic, but carbon dioxide is still removed, meaning that they don't feel pain.

Or helium if you have a particularly twisted sense of humor.

But in all honesty, I don't understand why it is so difficult to find a combination of drugs that kills without great pain or suffering. Why can't they use the same stuff any anesthesiologist would use before surgery, and then just up the dose when you're under? I hear about people committing suicide with an overdose of sleeping pills and the risk that "something could go wrong" during general anesthesia. What's preventing the state from using that sort of medication to do it?
 
2014-04-29 08:22:54 PM  

pootsie: TerminalEchoes: fusillade762: On April 23, the Oklahoma Supreme Court, whose justices are now being threatened by the Legislature with impeachment, caved and allowed the executions to move forward.

Way to stand on principle, guys.


DubyaHater: Considering what they did to their victims, they deserve a little torture. fark'em

Right-wingers LOVE the constitution until they don't.

Pretty easy to be sanctimonious when it wasn't one of your family members who was the victim of this guy.

As a single-payer loving, gay marriage wanting, redistribution encouraging left winger, allow me to say these farkers should die


Also, I am looking forward to Ronald Phillips' execution in Ohio soon
 
2014-04-29 08:23:20 PM  

TerminalEchoes: fusillade762: On April 23, the Oklahoma Supreme Court, whose justices are now being threatened by the Legislature with impeachment, caved and allowed the executions to move forward.

Way to stand on principle, guys.


DubyaHater: Considering what they did to their victims, they deserve a little torture. fark'em

Right-wingers LOVE the constitution until they don't.

Pretty easy to be sanctimonious when it wasn't one of your family members who was the victim of this guy.


You're saying America should base our legal system on emotion?

The death penalty is barbaric enough as it is. Wanting to make it more painful is even moreso. And yes, the crime was even worse, but repaying brutality with brutality is only gonna drag us down to their level.
 
2014-04-29 08:23:29 PM  
Good work Oklahoma, keep it up! I'm not being sarcastic, I really mean it. shiat, them prisoners are gonna die anyway. Why not put em to some kind of use? And America has a history of bending the bill of rights to their will. They're more like a bill of temporary revocable privalages. Know how I know? Google "Japanese Americans after Pearl Harbor bombing." History repeats itself in this case with prisoners, so why complain about something thats never going to change? And to be fair, this thing with using prisoners condemned to death anyway for experiments such as these is alot less malicious than our WW2 era Japanese internment camps.
 
2014-04-29 08:23:33 PM  

pootsie: The paralytic keeps them from convulsing and putting on a show

By the way, do not believe everything you read in Mother Jones about the McGuire execution


I don't. But I think a single drug injection of a massive dose of dilaudid, like some states are going to, is far more humane.

1mg of Dilaudid is equivalent to 10mg of Morphine. 50mg of it, Pushed rapidly through an IV, or given IM, is going to cause respiratory arrest.
 
2014-04-29 08:23:59 PM  

dukeblue219: hardinparamedic:

Nitrogen is the way to go if you're going to do that. The body gets hypoxic, but carbon dioxide is still removed, meaning that they don't feel pain.

Or helium if you have a particularly twisted sense of humor.

But in all honesty, I don't understand why it is so difficult to find a combination of drugs that kills without great pain or suffering. Why can't they use the same stuff any anesthesiologist would use before surgery, and then just up the dose when you're under? I hear about people committing suicide with an overdose of sleeping pills and the risk that "something could go wrong" during general anesthesia. What's preventing the state from using that sort of medication to do it?


That is what midazolam is. Versed, what you get for a scoping
 
2014-04-29 08:25:44 PM  

Tymast: Ontos: Meh... fark'em.

before or after?


Do you miss Cold Ethel?
 
2014-04-29 08:26:29 PM  
"Let's stop anyone from making approved chemicals for lethal injection. Then states will have to stop executions. The plan is foolproof!"
 
2014-04-29 08:26:33 PM  

fusillade762: On April 23, the Oklahoma Supreme Court, whose justices are now being threatened by the Legislature with impeachment, caved and allowed the executions to move forward.

Way to stand on principle, guys.


Mother Jones isn't exactly known for honest journalism when it comes to topics involving the death penalty.  The move to impeach had no bearing on the court's decision to lift the stay.

But fark it, Mother Jones is here to push an agenda.
 
2014-04-29 08:26:58 PM  
I  don't see why the death penalty cannot be implemented by a nitrogen asphyxiation as a means.  It's painless due to most of the Earth's atmosphere being composed of nitrogen.  The body will breathe normally, there will be no body-panic due to an abrupt halt of muscle control or an increase in CO2 in the bloodstream.  They will go to sleep and die.

Oh, right.  The death penalty is about revenge.  After they've been forgiven of course.
 
2014-04-29 08:27:11 PM  

hardinparamedic: vernonFL: Do they have a licensed medical professional such as an MD or a PA or an NP involved??

If so, that, person should lose their license.

Every state that does lethal injection has a law which exempts the people involved from having to have a prescription to purchase the drugs. They do this because every profession - from Nursing, to MD, to EMTs and Paramedics, has a body which has said "While we do not have the ability to bar you from practice in medicine for doing so, DO NOT participate as it's a violation of your ethical guidelines"

That said, most places use LPN and EMT-trained guards to establish an IV, and then an untrained guard to push the drugs.

On a side note, Versed and Pavulon are not untested. But WTF are they using a Paralytic. Just push 25mg of Ativan and 50mg of Dilaudid rapidly through a centrally located IV.


Why not just get a bulk order on the veterinary euthanasia mixture?
 
2014-04-29 08:27:39 PM  
I am always amused how right wingers think government has too much power in people's live but in the same breathe they believe that should have the power to put people to death.
 
2014-04-29 08:27:55 PM  

LordJiro: The death penalty is barbaric enough as it is. Wanting to make it more painful is even moreso. And yes, the crime was even worse, but repaying brutality with brutality is only gonna drag us down to their level.


The death penalty is far from barbaric or brutal.  The accused barely feels anything.
 
2014-04-29 08:28:01 PM  

hardinparamedic: Kit Fister: Seems like a chemical cocktail of Carbon Dioxide in a sealed room is well proven and effective. Not to mention, dry ice is readily available.

Which would meet the constitutional prohibition of Cruel and Unusual. Carbon Dioxide asphyxia is horribly painful and torturous as a way to die.

Nitrogen is the way to go if you're going to do that. The body gets hypoxic, but carbon dioxide is still removed, meaning that they don't feel pain.


I didn't know that. I was always told that you got really sleepy and silly due to oxygen deprivation and passed out?
 
2014-04-29 08:28:31 PM  

pootsie: pootsie: TerminalEchoes: fusillade762: On April 23, the Oklahoma Supreme Court, whose justices are now being threatened by the Legislature with impeachment, caved and allowed the executions to move forward.

Way to stand on principle, guys.


DubyaHater: Considering what they did to their victims, they deserve a little torture. fark'em

Right-wingers LOVE the constitution until they don't.

Pretty easy to be sanctimonious when it wasn't one of your family members who was the victim of this guy.

As a single-payer loving, gay marriage wanting, redistribution encouraging left winger, allow me to say these farkers should die

Also, I am looking forward to Ronald Phillips' execution in Ohio soon


if you're looking forward to an execution so much, do you also hope other horrible people will do other horrible things to other people so you can have more executions to look forward to?
 
2014-04-29 08:28:37 PM  

Mister Pleco: I  don't see why the death penalty cannot be implemented by a nitrogen asphyxiation as a means.  It's painless due to most of the Earth's atmosphere being composed of nitrogen.  The body will breathe normally, there will be no body-panic due to an abrupt halt of muscle control or an increase in CO2 in the bloodstream.  They will go to sleep and die.

Oh, right.  The death penalty is about revenge.  After they've been forgiven of course.


Do you know how I know you are not a doctor?
 
2014-04-29 08:28:49 PM  

pootsie: That is what midazolam is. Versed, what you get for a scoping


Not necessarily. Versed is used in a cocktail of an Opiate-Benzo-Paralytic when inducing general anesthesia to place an endotracheal tube for surgery, prior to being put on volatile gas anesthetics. Versed itself has sedative, but no pain control properties. In high enough doses, it can induce complete obtundation, but there will still be a response to pain that isn't blunted.

Useful if you want to intubate someone in shock (don't do this normally), but not useful if you want to euthanize someone painlessly.
 
2014-04-29 08:28:52 PM  

Mister Pleco: I  don't see why the death penalty cannot be implemented by a nitrogen asphyxiation as a means.  It's painless due to most of the Earth's atmosphere being composed of nitrogen.  The body will breathe normally, there will be no body-panic due to an abrupt halt of muscle control or an increase in CO2 in the bloodstream.  They will go to sleep and die.

Oh, right.  The death penalty is about revenge.  After they've been forgiven of course.


Because it would be an infrastructure clusterfark to implement.
 
2014-04-29 08:29:16 PM  
I would think a large dose of succinylcholine would do the trick. The heart and lungs just stop.

I'm allergic to that stuff. Almost died on the operating table.
 
2014-04-29 08:29:49 PM  

soseussme: pootsie: pootsie: TerminalEchoes: fusillade762: On April 23, the Oklahoma Supreme Court, whose justices are now being threatened by the Legislature with impeachment, caved and allowed the executions to move forward.

Way to stand on principle, guys.


DubyaHater: Considering what they did to their victims, they deserve a little torture. fark'em

Right-wingers LOVE the constitution until they don't.

Pretty easy to be sanctimonious when it wasn't one of your family members who was the victim of this guy.

As a single-payer loving, gay marriage wanting, redistribution encouraging left winger, allow me to say these farkers should die

Also, I am looking forward to Ronald Phillips' execution in Ohio soon

if you're looking forward to an execution so much, do you also hope other horrible people will do other horrible things to other people so you can have more executions to look forward to?


No. That would be stupid.
 
2014-04-29 08:30:04 PM  
Will this be on PPV?
 
2014-04-29 08:30:17 PM  

Kit Fister: hardinparamedic: Kit Fister: Seems like a chemical cocktail of Carbon Dioxide in a sealed room is well proven and effective. Not to mention, dry ice is readily available.

Which would meet the constitutional prohibition of Cruel and Unusual. Carbon Dioxide asphyxia is horribly painful and torturous as a way to die.

Nitrogen is the way to go if you're going to do that. The body gets hypoxic, but carbon dioxide is still removed, meaning that they don't feel pain.

I didn't know that. I was always told that you got really sleepy and silly due to oxygen deprivation and passed out?


That's carbon monoxide.

Carbon dioxide is like drowning.
 
2014-04-29 08:30:20 PM  

sprgrss: LordJiro: The death penalty is barbaric enough as it is. Wanting to make it more painful is even moreso. And yes, the crime was even worse, but repaying brutality with brutality is only gonna drag us down to their level.

The death penalty is far from barbaric or brutal.  The accused barely feels anything.


It's still nothing more than state-sponsored revenge. The death penalty has no place in civilized society.
 
2014-04-29 08:30:29 PM  
It seems there's just no satisfying and palatable way to kill someone.  Thus the time has come to decide if society has the right to take a person's life in exchange for a life taken.  If not, then life in prison without possibility of parole is just fine and dandy a sentence for even the most heinous of crimes.  If yes, then fark everyone's sensibilities and make executions as business like as possible, by firing squad, gas chamber, electric chair, hanging, or walking behind the condemned and blasting them with a .45 to the brainstem.  Or make it theater of the macabre by using some truly exotic and spectacular means like securing the condemned to the barrel of a howitzer and blast away or lowering them ever so slowly into a vat of sulfuric acid.  Hell film the last few days up through the execution and broadcast it as the ultimate reality series, because there's nothing more real and final than death.

Just make up your minds, people, and get with the program.
 
2014-04-29 08:30:33 PM  
Ah.  I see it's been covered.
 
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