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(JSOnline)   Federal Judge Strikes down Wisconsin GOP's attempt to pre-stuff the ballot box in 2014 and 2016 ruling that "it is absolutely clear that Act 23 will prevent more legitimate votes from being cast than fraudulent votes"   (jsonline.com) divider line 211
    More: Spiffy, Republican Party of Wisconsin, Voter ID Laws, Pre, Wisconsin, ballot stuffing, ballot boxes, federal judges, Wisconsin Supreme Court  
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2534 clicks; posted to Politics » on 29 Apr 2014 at 9:12 PM (12 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



211 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-04-29 10:29:07 PM

you are a puppet: Why is my ID required to prove my age to bartenders?

Why is my ID the best way to crush and snort lines?

Why is ID software no longer releasing Doom games?

Why do I need life insurance?

Why do I have to register before I can post on FARK?

Why does James Bond need a license to kill?

Why I laugh?


Why do liberals not complain about Paula Zahn's show on ID?

Why do Freudian liberals think black people can only possess ego and superego?
 
2014-04-29 10:29:09 PM
Study it out sheeple, study it out.
 
2014-04-29 10:31:11 PM
Photo IDs are free in Wisconsin, not having one just seems weird.

also the 7th circuit will probably overturn Adelman for the thousandth time
 
2014-04-29 10:31:44 PM

BSABSVR: you are a puppet: Why is my ID required to prove my age to bartenders?

Why is my ID the best way to crush and snort lines?

Why is ID software no longer releasing Doom games?

Why do I need life insurance?

Why do I have to register before I can post on FARK?

Why does James Bond need a license to kill?

Why I laugh?

Why do liberals not complain about Paula Zahn's show on ID?

Why do Freudian liberals think black people can only possess ego and superego?


Why does Taco Bell think their Breakfast Taco was actually a good idea?
 
2014-04-29 10:36:04 PM
Some Farkers need to go back and refresh their GEDs in Law.
 
2014-04-29 10:38:41 PM

Mrtraveler01: BSABSVR: you are a puppet: Why is my ID required to prove my age to bartenders?

Why is my ID the best way to crush and snort lines?

Why is ID software no longer releasing Doom games?

Why do I need life insurance?

Why do I have to register before I can post on FARK?

Why does James Bond need a license to kill?

Why I laugh?

Why do liberals not complain about Paula Zahn's show on ID?

Why do Freudian liberals think black people can only possess ego and superego?

Why does Taco Bell think their Breakfast Taco was actually a good idea?


Why is getting drunk not a right?
 
2014-04-29 10:39:03 PM
Coolio.
 
2014-04-29 10:39:59 PM

jso2897: Some Farkers need to go back and refresh their GEDs in Law.


more like a JED

/sorry
 
2014-04-29 10:48:23 PM
Why ask why?

/Try Bud Dry
 
2014-04-29 10:48:45 PM

Ken VeryBigLiar: WhiskeySticks: Not all hope is lost. Glad someone in this state decided to stand up.

Adelman's been agitating Republicans out here forever; the ruling was practically a forgone conclusion.


Adelman - the former democrat state senator Adelman?
This was the only possible outcome.
 
2014-04-29 10:49:03 PM

KIA: Why is my ID used to force me to pay taxes?

Why is my ID required to open a bank account?

Why do I need an ID / license to drive?

Why do I need proof of insurance?

Why do I have to register for W-9s at work?

Why do people need licenses to do particular jobs?


I don't seem to recall ever needing a photo ID to pay taxes.

There's no enumerated right to be free of taxes, drive a car, start a bank account or be a doctor. I know you're being facetious but your point sucks. You don't need a photo ID to attend public school or use the postal service. These laws are stopping people from voting when turnout is abysmal and fraud is infinitesimal.
 
2014-04-29 10:52:42 PM

Robin Hoodie: Photo IDs are free in Wisconsin, not having one just seems weird.

also the 7th circuit will probably overturn Adelman for the thousandth time


Keeping the address on your photo ID up to date in time for every biannual bullshiat election is too much to ask for a lot of people who happen to vote democratic. Also there's no voter fraud.
 
2014-04-29 10:53:38 PM

Flashlight: Satanic_Hamster: Flashlight: The next thing to go down should be the requirement to show ID when buying a gun from a dealer. Or should the poor and minorities not be allowed to defend themselves? If you believe people should be required to provide ID to buy a firearm how do you justify your classism and racism?

I know you're a known trolling shiat, but since real life right wingers use this argument...

Guns:  For obvious reasons, insane criminals aren't allowed to purchase weapons.  ID is required to prevent them from killing people.

Voting:  ID's are wanted by Republicans to keep people from voting for Demoncrats.

Now, one of these goals is a compelling public interest.  And one is just unAmerican bullshiat that you should be ashamed of.

I actually am ashamed of voter ID laws. But unlike you I am consistent in my support of freedom. You just want get blacks to vote then send them back into the ghetto to be murdered whereas I believe that they should be able to defend themselves.


So.. free guns for everyone?
 
2014-04-29 10:55:04 PM

moothemagiccow: KIA: Why is my ID used to force me to pay taxes?

Why is my ID required to open a bank account?

Why do I need an ID / license to drive?

Why do I need proof of insurance?

Why do I have to register for W-9s at work?

Why do people need licenses to do particular jobs?

I don't seem to recall ever needing a photo ID to pay taxes.

There's no enumerated right to be free of taxes, drive a car, start a bank account or be a doctor. I know you're being facetious but your point sucks. You don't need a photo ID to attend public school or use the postal service. These laws are stopping people from voting when turnout is abysmal and fraud is infinitesimal.


I don't think you seem to understand the issue here.

Brown people are VOTING. Right here in the USA. And their votes even count as much as god-fearin' whitefolk. Can you imagine???
 
2014-04-29 11:03:45 PM

Robin Hoodie: Photo IDs are free in Wisconsin, not having one just seems weird.

also the 7th circuit will probably overturn Adelman for the thousandth time


One difficulty for some poor people is having the supporting documentation to get one.  A birth certificate is typically the main way to do so for your first one at least, and you'd be amazed how many people don't have theirs or lost it.  Getting your birth certificate replaced is *not* free.  Also, check this shiat out, from the CDC.gov site, for Wisconsin residents who need a copy of their birth certificate:

Customers should use a state birth certificate application form to apply.  A copy of a valid photo ID and a signature is required of the applicant. Personal check or money order should be made payable to State of Wisconsin Vital Records.

So to get your birth certificate so you can get a photo ID, you require... a valid photo ID.
 
2014-04-29 11:05:46 PM
Ahh, yes, Voter ID. It's like hearing a story from your aunt's plumber's cousin's Facebook about how one house down the block has a termite and then burning the entire town to the ground

If the Democrats were smart they'd propose a Voter ID law that provides state-issued ID cards at birth starting this year and goes fully into zero-exception, no card no vote effect in 2032. How could the GOP object? It would definitely solve their unsupported-by-fact claims of rampant "in person" voter fraud, so any other reason to move faster would be proof they're only worried about the "wrong" people voting.
 
2014-04-29 11:09:24 PM

DemonEater: Robin Hoodie: Photo IDs are free in Wisconsin, not having one just seems weird.

also the 7th circuit will probably overturn Adelman for the thousandth time

One difficulty for some poor people is having the supporting documentation to get one.  A birth certificate is typically the main way to do so for your first one at least, and you'd be amazed how many people don't have theirs or lost it.  Getting your birth certificate replaced is *not* free.  Also, check this shiat out, from the CDC.gov site, for Wisconsin residents who need a copy of their birth certificate:

Customers should use a state birth certificate application form to apply.  A copy of a valid photo ID and a signature is required of the applicant. Personal check or money order should be made payable to State of Wisconsin Vital Records.

So to get your birth certificate so you can get a photo ID, you require... a valid photo ID.


that's just terrible, not to mention living in wisconsin without a photo ID would just be hell. How would you drink?
 
2014-04-29 11:09:53 PM

Mr. Coffee Nerves: Ahh, yes, Voter ID. It's like hearing a story from your aunt's plumber's cousin's Facebook about how one house down the block has a termite and then burning the entire town to the ground

If the Democrats were smart they'd propose a Voter ID law that provides state-issued ID cards at birth starting this year and goes fully into zero-exception, no card no vote effect in 2032. How could the GOP object? It would definitely solve their unsupported-by-fact claims of rampant "in person" voter fraud, so any other reason to move faster would be proof they're only worried about the "wrong" people voting.


Or we could do what every other country does and have an ID card issued free of charge on the national level.

But that would make too much sense.
 
2014-04-29 11:14:14 PM

Mrtraveler01: Mr. Coffee Nerves: Ahh, yes, Voter ID. It's like hearing a story from your aunt's plumber's cousin's Facebook about how one house down the block has a termite and then burning the entire town to the ground

If the Democrats were smart they'd propose a Voter ID law that provides state-issued ID cards at birth starting this year and goes fully into zero-exception, no card no vote effect in 2032. How could the GOP object? It would definitely solve their unsupported-by-fact claims of rampant "in person" voter fraud, so any other reason to move faster would be proof they're only worried about the "wrong" people voting.

Or we could do what every other country does and have an ID card issued free of charge on the national level.

But that would make too much sense.


I wonder how many people screaming for Voter ID laws would scream equally as loud against "the gubbmint" issuing national ID cards?
 
KIA
2014-04-29 11:20:31 PM

Almet: KIA: Why is my ID used to force me to pay taxes?

It's not.

Why is my ID required to open a bank account?

Opening a bank account is not a constitutional right
  Why do I need an ID / license to drive?

Driving is not a constitutional right.

Why do I need proof of insurance?

Assuming you're talking about auto insurance, driving is not a constitutional right.

Why do I have to register for W-9s at work?

That is a condition of employment, a choice, and again, not a constitutionally guaranteed right.

Why do people need licenses to do particular jobs?

That is a condition of employment, a choice, and again, not a constitutionally guaranteed right.


Ok.  Why do I have to go through a background check to buy a gun?  That's a constitutionally guaranteed right.
 
2014-04-29 11:23:55 PM
Almet: constitutionally guaranteed right

Why don't you dumbass Voter ID law supporters understand this? It is my right as an American citizen to be able to vote, GO FARK YOURSELF TRYING TO LIMIT ME. It doesn't matter how easy it is to get an ID, you don't need one to be able to vote. Period. End of discussion. Go touch yourself to your American flag lapel pin of Freedom some more you jackholes. Almet's got it right on, it is a right to vote and not a right to do pretty much anything else you try and compare ID use to.
 
2014-04-29 11:26:15 PM

KIA: Why do I have to go through a background check to buy a gun?


You must find a legal way to obtain a gun through the laws of this country. The process of obtaining a gun is not a constitutional right. Having that gun, once you have gone through the process of legally obtaining one, is a right.
 
2014-04-29 11:26:30 PM
This ruling will get overturned in higher courts, which have already ruled states can require ID to vote

Considering we need ID to do just about everything, it is a joke, and, direct attempt to commit vote fraud, by not requiring ID to vote.

Most states provide free official state ID cards to poor folks, so that is liberal BS that "Voter ID laws discriminate against the poor"
 
2014-04-29 11:27:37 PM
All the abstract arguments in the world about voter fraud don't matter - at all - as long as empirical reality continues to show that voter fraud is an incredibly minor issue, and voter ID laws actually disenfranchise people. Period. The abstract theory behind it, whether sincere or not, is pretty much irrelevant.

It's as if someone decided that we need to license newspapers because failing to do so would result in an imminent alien invasion. Whether or not you can form an abstract argument around that is irrelevant - there are no aliens.
 
2014-04-29 11:28:47 PM
Either we allow Voter ID and issue National ID cards free of charge or we don't have any Voter ID at all. That's my view on the whole thing. Seems like a sensible one to me.
 
KIA
2014-04-29 11:29:07 PM

Triple Oak: It is my right as an American citizen to be able to vote


Agreed.  Show you're a citizen living by the rules paying taxes etc. and vote in every election.
 
2014-04-29 11:29:22 PM

Mrtraveler01: Mr. Coffee Nerves: Ahh, yes, Voter ID. It's like hearing a story from your aunt's plumber's cousin's Facebook about how one house down the block has a termite and then burning the entire town to the ground

If the Democrats were smart they'd propose a Voter ID law that provides state-issued ID cards at birth starting this year and goes fully into zero-exception, no card no vote effect in 2032. How could the GOP object? It would definitely solve their unsupported-by-fact claims of rampant "in person" voter fraud, so any other reason to move faster would be proof they're only worried about the "wrong" people voting.

Or we could do what every other country does and have an ID card issued free of charge on the national level.

But that would make too much sense.


A national registry would have its own risk of abuse... Granted it would simplify and streamline many things...
 
2014-04-29 11:29:33 PM

Mr. Coffee Nerves: Mrtraveler01: Mr. Coffee Nerves: Ahh, yes, Voter ID. It's like hearing a story from your aunt's plumber's cousin's Facebook about how one house down the block has a termite and then burning the entire town to the ground

If the Democrats were smart they'd propose a Voter ID law that provides state-issued ID cards at birth starting this year and goes fully into zero-exception, no card no vote effect in 2032. How could the GOP object? It would definitely solve their unsupported-by-fact claims of rampant "in person" voter fraud, so any other reason to move faster would be proof they're only worried about the "wrong" people voting.

Or we could do what every other country does and have an ID card issued free of charge on the national level.

But that would make too much sense.

I wonder how many people screaming for Voter ID laws would scream equally as loud against "the gubbmint" issuing national ID cards?


Doesn't matter. The people who would scream about that have no idea how much the government protects and serves them (yes, even as more rulings pile up for corporations and against people, the government still does a lot to help regulate). I would support the idea. Then again, as a legal citizen, I have a SSN card, so I think we have a good basis for identification and ID cards.
 
KIA
2014-04-29 11:32:21 PM

Triple Oak: The process of obtaining a gun is not a constitutional right.


Fascinating.  So, your right to free speech is conditional on not having your mouth glued shut?
 
2014-04-29 11:33:00 PM
KIA: Why does 0bama force me to breathe oxygen?

Why does the federal government require the Earth to be an oblate spheroid?

Why do I need food?

Why do I need an organ called a "heart" to pump "blood" around tubes inside this horrible body I'm forced to wear?

Why do I have to look at a narrow section of the electromagmetic spectrum through these globs of jelly!?

Why am I forced to participate in civilization?
 
2014-04-29 11:35:23 PM

KIA: Triple Oak: It is my right as an American citizen to be able to vote

Agreed.  Show you're a citizen living by the rules paying taxes etc. and vote in every election.


I already do. But I'm not the target of disenfranchisement. Voter ID law supporters SHOULD have to prove how rampant a problem this is (it isn't) and then prove that the proposed laws would stop it completely (stop something already pretty much non-existent). They should also prove where in the Constitution it says your right to vote comes with an asterisk that says you need an ID as requested in these laws.

I will watch to see this go all the way to the SCOTUS but right now we already have a judge's ruling on why it won't work as they say it will. That's a damn great start.
 
2014-04-29 11:38:04 PM

KIA: Triple Oak: The process of obtaining a gun is not a constitutional right.

Fascinating.  So, your right to free speech is conditional on not having your mouth glued shut?


Speech comes in more forms than just the words that come from your mouth. Stop being obtuse or show me where the Constitution says your right to vote is dependent on having an ID.
 
2014-04-29 11:38:47 PM
Voter ID laws suffer from this most basic issue of governance. Let's make it extremely abstract.

Let's say I want to pass a law to prevent X from happening. Everyone agrees that X is a bad thing. The unintended (let's assume unintended) consequence of passing this law is that certain people will no longer be able to exercise a constitutionally protected right.

Here's the most basic question I can ask - does the state have any obligation at all to prove X is a real world problem rather than a theoretical one?
 
2014-04-29 11:45:17 PM
Win or lose, they'll still be able to count on Waukesha County to find just enough Republican votes at the last minute to swing the election.
 
2014-04-29 11:46:38 PM
 
2014-04-29 11:53:26 PM

that bosnian sniper: Win or lose, they'll still be able to count on Waukesha County to find just enough Republican votes at the last minute to swing the election.


You make a great assumption that Burke will even be within three points.  She barely has name recognition at this point and she's running unopposed.
 
2014-04-29 11:54:10 PM

Hollie Maea: namatad: it will be QUITE interesting to watch how SCOTUS decides

No it won't. The SCOTUS will endorse Scotty's law, 5-4.  Kennedy hasn't been a swing vote for years.  He has presumably been watching the same Fox News shows that has turned your parents into fascists.

And don't give me any bull about how Roberts might be "reasonable".  He only "sided" with Obama on Obamacare because he thought it would cost him re election.  Upholding it as a tax was a troll decision, and nothing more.


"There is no right more basic in our democracy than the right to participate in electing our political leaders,"

John Roberts ~ McCutcheon v. FEC


If this ends up before SCOTUS I hope people have huge farking signs made with that on it.
 
2014-04-29 11:57:52 PM

Triple Oak: Speech comes in more forms than just the words that come from your mouth. Stop being obtuse or show me where the Constitution says your right to vote is dependent on having an ID.


Money, yes. Voting, no.

I just did about fifteen minutes' worth of digging around to verify my memory, but the closest you'll ever find in terms of Supreme Court jurisprudence on the subject of voting as protected by the First Amendment, is  Burdick v. Takushi (504 US 428, 1992). that was a decision about a Hawaii state law prohibiting write-in voting.  SCOTUS rejected the argument and upheld the law as Constitutional, not only using rational basis but going so far as to specifically reject strict scrutiny on somereally dodgy grounds.

By the way, Kennedy wrote an interesting dissent. Interesting in the sense it's oddly fascinating how derpy he's become in the last twenty years.
 
2014-04-29 11:57:52 PM

Marcus Aurelius: "The defendants could not point to a single instance of known voter impersonation occurring in Wisconsin at any time in the recent past."

The law isn't meant to stop fraud.  It's meant to stop legitimate voters from voting.  In that sense, it works exactly as designed.

/as do all voter id laws


Georgia's law was upheld after they put in a provision for elections offices to make free voter photo IDs for anyone who wants one.

Oddly enough, you don't have to show a picture ID to get the picture ID required for you to vote. My head hurts.
 
KIA
2014-04-29 11:58:13 PM

Triple Oak: Voter ID law supporters SHOULD have to prove how rampant a problem this is (it isn't) and then prove that the proposed laws would stop it completely (stop something already pretty much non-existent).


I keep hearing everyone say that (yes, I understand that this particular judge said it too) but seems to be a hotly contested issue.  There have been a number of instances of referrals for prosecution and even convictions, deportations, ect.:

http://www.usnews.com/debate-club/is-voter-fraud-a-real-problem

http://www.truethevote.org/news/how-widespread-is-voter-fraud-2012-f ac ts-figures

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/368234/voter-fraud-weve-got-pr oo f-its-easy-john-fund

http://www.dailytarheel.com/article/2014/04/study-finds-765-cases-of -n c-voter-fraud-in-2012-election

There have been indictments of public officials in charge of registration and voting:

http://www.walb.com/story/16104533/12-indicted-for-voter-fraud

Sheriffs have called people to interfere with the voting process:

http://theadvocate.com/news/applatestnews/8757760-123/investigation- la unched-into-voter-fraud

So, it is -a- problem but you contend it isn't severe enough to merit public action.  Statistically, there are a lot of things that aren't large enough to actually merit public action - mass shootings, texting while driving deaths, drownings in swimming pools - but people try to force action anyway.  Are they villains for trying to solve a problem even if it is a small one?
 
2014-04-29 11:58:54 PM
Cats shoot people who think they can take away cat's inalienable right to vote.

/rubber band guns
 
2014-04-30 12:04:36 AM

KIA: Triple Oak: Voter ID law supporters SHOULD have to prove how rampant a problem this is (it isn't) and then prove that the proposed laws would stop it completely (stop something already pretty much non-existent).

I keep hearing everyone say that (yes, I understand that this particular judge said it too) but seems to be a hotly contested issue.  There have been a number of instances of referrals for prosecution and even convictions, deportations, ect.:

http://www.usnews.com/debate-club/is-voter-fraud-a-real-problem

http://www.truethevote.org/news/how-widespread-is-voter-fraud-2012-f ac ts-figures

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/368234/voter-fraud-weve-got-pr oo f-its-easy-john-fund

http://www.dailytarheel.com/article/2014/04/study-finds-765-cases-of -n c-voter-fraud-in-2012-election

There have been indictments of public officials in charge of registration and voting:

http://www.walb.com/story/16104533/12-indicted-for-voter-fraud

Sheriffs have called people to interfere with the voting process:

http://theadvocate.com/news/applatestnews/8757760-123/investigation- la unched-into-voter-fraud

So, it is -a- problem but you contend it isn't severe enough to merit public action.  Statistically, there are a lot of things that aren't large enough to actually merit public action - mass shootings, texting while driving deaths, drownings in swimming pools - but people try to force action anyway.  Are they villains for trying to solve a problem even if it is a small one?


Doesn't help that you use right-wing sources like National Review (John Fund) and True The Vote to back up your claims.

The other claims you cited were very small and most likely would not have been prevented with Voter ID because the fraud happened with absentee ballots (like the one in Georgia). But this bit from the Daily Tar Heel was my favorite:

"With a voter ID requirement, anyone who wanted to commit this type of fraud would have to go out of her way to get forged identification to go along with the transplanted voter's name and address," Kokai said. "The fraud still could take place, but the voter ID would serve as a deterrent."

Sounds like a worthwhile effort to take if even the advocates of Voter ID admit that it might not stop voter fraud.
 
2014-04-30 12:05:30 AM

KIA: Why is my ID used to force me to pay taxes?

Why is my ID required to open a bank account?

Why do I need an ID / license to drive?

Why do I need proof of insurance?

Why do I have to register for W-9s at work?

Why do people need licenses to do particular jobs?


You have to show ID when you register to vote. You are then issued ann ID card that says you can vote. When you go to vote, you have to sign the book, also a form of ID, before you can vote.

I think it's pretty well covered already/
 
KIA
2014-04-30 12:06:19 AM

Triple Oak: Speech comes in more forms than just the words that come from your mouth. Stop being obtuse or show me where the Constitution says your right to vote is dependent on having an ID.


Actually, you need to review where your alleged right to vote comes from.  There is this:

Art. 1, Section 4
1:  The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of chusing Senators.

And then the Seveneenth Amendment:

The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State, elected by the people thereof, for six years; and each Senator shall have one vote.

And, of course, the Twenty-Fourth Amendment:

The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any primary or other election for President or Vice President, for electors for President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any state by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax.


It's that last one, the poll tax, which is being touted as the reason why voter ID laws cannot be enforced, because there is a cost to getting some IDs so people are claiming it is a poll tax.

However, you don't even get there if the person isn't a citizen in the first place because the right only exists for citizens, see the first clause of the sentence.
 
2014-04-30 12:07:51 AM

KIA: t's that last one, the poll tax, which is being touted as the reason why voter ID laws cannot be enforced, because there is a cost to getting some IDs so people are claiming it is a poll tax.

However, you don't even get there if the person isn't a citizen in the first place because the right only exists for citizens, see the first clause of the sentence.


It's not a poll tax? Why should people have to pay an ID to vote?

I mean I guess if we started offering ID's on a national level like we wanted to do a few years back, but I guess that makes too much sense.
 
2014-04-30 12:11:46 AM

that bosnian sniper: Money, yes. Voting, no.


The debate that I was responding to was about the First Amendment right of free speech, not the Constitutional Right to vote. I like the research though.
 
2014-04-30 12:13:04 AM

Mrtraveler01: KIA: t's that last one, the poll tax, which is being touted as the reason why voter ID laws cannot be enforced, because there is a cost to getting some IDs so people are claiming it is a poll tax.

However, you don't even get there if the person isn't a citizen in the first place because the right only exists for citizens, see the first clause of the sentence.

It's not a poll tax? Why should people have to pay an ID to vote?

I mean I guess if we started offering ID's on a national level like we wanted to do a few years back, but I guess that makes too much sense.


I was told that a national ID card was just like Hitler.
 
2014-04-30 12:16:07 AM

KIA: Ok.  Why do I have to go through a background check to buy a gun?  That's a constitutionally guaranteed right.


You have the right to own a gun, not buy a gun, the states have the right to regulate sales and the feds have the right to regulate interstate sales. Also you can buy a gun without a background check or ID at a gun show in 33 states. The courts have accepted that constitutional rights are limited - e.g. bomb threats are not legal.

Recall that there are a couple dozen other constitutional amendments, their order has no relevance to their importance and a fair few of them deal with voting rights. One such amendment is the 24th, which says

The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any primary or other election for President or Vice President, for electors for President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any State by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax. 

Paying for an ID is a poll tax. Coincidentally, the same states instituting voter ID laws are the ones who used poll taxes, literacy tests and other voter suppression tactics to stop black people from voting a hundred years ago.

Unless they're giving out the IDs at the polls, essentially defeating the purpose of the ID law, it's not constitutional. As it stands, they're not even distributed during registration, and the documentation required to obtain a photo ID isn't valid documentation for voting, which is, frankly, completely legal but immensely stupid and ultimately pointless. If someone really wants to impersonate me at the polls, they can steal my SS card and create a fraudulent state ID with their face on it.

Also there's no voter fraud. The question we really should be asking is "how can we improve turnout?" and "how can we make voting more convenient" while taking into account possibilities of fraud in new voting methods. Currently I can pay my taxes online with no info other than my name and social security number, but it's impossible for me to vote online.
 
2014-04-30 12:22:08 AM

KIA: Triple Oak: Speech comes in more forms than just the words that come from your mouth. Stop being obtuse or show me where the Constitution says your right to vote is dependent on having an ID.

Actually, you need to review where your alleged right to vote comes from.


And then whargarbll where the Constitution doesn't say you require an ID to vote. So you still haven't answered your question.

As for your links before, 1 is a debate on the subject, 2 shows problems that stretch far beyond "did they use an ID to vote" (like states not taking dead people from their voting ledgers), 3 demonstrates the same point (also starts with "Liberals" which, when you debate a non-partisan subject that happens to have mostly partisan splits, is a great way to captivate a certain kind of audience), 4 says maybe that amount (when originally they wanted to tout 35,000+ cases of "potential fraud" [and see there, potential is also not proving that it exists, but that it may exist, so actually prove those numbers and we'll see]), 5 has no details on what they did to be considered fraud (and also doesn't show whether they were found guilty or by what manner they "illegally" did anything), and 6 appears to be still investigating using means that aren't at all affected by whether or not the person has ID (also, who tries to fax in a vote? Is that still a thing?).

How about the states that have dead eligible voters go through their internal information and get rid of the dead people's names as eligible? That would solve way more problems that you haven't presented for fraud, right? Especially because two of your links confirm that (and one shows people knowingly breaking the law).
 
2014-04-30 12:27:32 AM

KIA: So, it is -a- problem


Again, just to emphasize, nothing you posted proves that an ID would prevent alleged fraud related to the laws in place. More of your links suggest that states are being negligent with who's on the ledger when they have the information to make a change, and yet they would rather focus on something they can't prove. And there's a post earlier in the thread showing how hard it is to get an ID in Wisconsin in certain situations, like not having a birth certificate (and subsequently needing an ID to get a birth certificate copy to get an ID to vote).

Also, while this debate extends nationwide, none of what you've debated relates to this law in Wisconsin and the potential fraud here.
 
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