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(JSOnline)   Federal Judge Strikes down Wisconsin GOP's attempt to pre-stuff the ballot box in 2014 and 2016 ruling that "it is absolutely clear that Act 23 will prevent more legitimate votes from being cast than fraudulent votes"   (jsonline.com ) divider line
    More: Spiffy, Republican Party of Wisconsin, Voter ID Laws, Pre, Wisconsin, ballot stuffing, ballot boxes, federal judges, Wisconsin Supreme Court  
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2543 clicks; posted to Politics » on 29 Apr 2014 at 9:12 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



211 Comments     (+0 »)
 
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2014-04-29 05:38:49 PM  
lh6.googleusercontent.com
 
2014-04-29 05:42:00 PM  
I'm sure SCOTUS will take care of that eventually.
 
2014-04-29 05:48:30 PM  

fusillade762: I'm sure SCOTUS will take care of that eventually.


alas, it will be QUITE interesting to watch how SCOTUS decides this.
Because the logic of this decision is irrefutable, you are harming a MUCH larger number of citizens than you are preventing from committing fraud.

the net effect of the law is to clearly do harm, not prevent harm
 
2014-04-29 05:54:45 PM  
Not all hope is lost. Glad someone in this state decided to stand up.
 
2014-04-29 06:11:36 PM  
"The defendants could not point to a single instance of known voter impersonation occurring in Wisconsin at any time in the recent past."

The law isn't meant to stop fraud.  It's meant to stop legitimate voters from voting.  In that sense, it works exactly as designed.

/as do all voter id laws
 
2014-04-29 06:21:48 PM  
Score one for democracy.
 
2014-04-29 06:28:47 PM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: Score one for democracy.


THIS THIS AND MORETHIS
 
2014-04-29 06:28:58 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: It's meant to stop legitimate voters from voting.


Legitimate voters?  Since when are poor people and the elderly legitimate voters?
 
2014-04-29 06:49:53 PM  
Wow.  Another win.
 
2014-04-29 06:58:16 PM  
"But no matter how imprecise my estimate may be, it is absolutely clear that Act 23 will prevent more legitimate votes from being cast than fraudulent votes."

That's the judge saying your legislation sucks.

"The defendants could not point to a single instance of known voter impersonation occurring in Wisconsin at any time in the recent past."

Ouch. That's like getting kicked in the 'nads.

"However, I also note that, given the evidence presented at trial showing that Blacks and Latinos are more likely than whites to lack an ID, it is difficult to see how an amendment to the photo ID requirement could remove its disproportionate racial impact and discriminatory result," he wrote.

PLEASE HAMMER DON'T HURT 'EM!
 
2014-04-29 07:05:23 PM  

meat0918: Wow.  Another win.


weird.  I keep waiting of the other shoe to drop or someone to go shoot up a school or something.
 
2014-04-29 07:13:54 PM  

Angela Lansbury's Merkin: Marcus Aurelius: It's meant to stop legitimate voters from voting.

Legitimate voters?  Since when are poor people and the elderly legitimate voters?


The elderly are super legitimate voters.  If they are white, middle class and just feel uncomfortable around the coloreds.
 
2014-04-29 08:01:57 PM  
namatad: it will be QUITE interesting to watch how SCOTUS decides

No it won't. The SCOTUS will endorse Scotty's law, 5-4.  Kennedy hasn't been a swing vote for years.  He has presumably been watching the same Fox News shows that has turned your parents into fascists.

And don't give me any bull about how Roberts might be "reasonable".  He only "sided" with Obama on Obamacare because he thought it would cost him re election.  Upholding it as a tax was a troll decision, and nothing more.
 
2014-04-29 08:03:20 PM  
Oh, and Kennedy will write the majority opinion, explaining that you can count on people to not abuse the law, and besides, racism and discrimination have been dead for decades.

/Book it.
 
2014-04-29 08:49:32 PM  

meat0918: Wow.  Another win.


Temporarily, don't relax. These farkers are vigilant and wait to strike.


themoderatevoice.com
 
2014-04-29 08:59:27 PM  

Hollie Maea: namatad: it will be QUITE interesting to watch how SCOTUS decides

No it won't. The SCOTUS will endorse Scotty's law, 5-4.  Kennedy hasn't been a swing vote for years.  He has presumably been watching the same Fox News shows that has turned your parents into fascists.

And don't give me any bull about how Roberts might be "reasonable".  He only "sided" with Obama on Obamacare because he thought it would cost him re election.  Upholding it as a tax was a troll decision, and nothing more.


I've been thinking that about Kennedy for awhile now. He is still talked about as the swing vote, but he doesn't seem to ever swing anymore.

However, I disagree about Roberts. Seems to me he wants a legacy as much as anything else. Also seems to me that he wants the swing role Kennedy once had. A true swing justice wields a lot of power.
 
KIA
2014-04-29 09:21:13 PM  
Why is my ID used to force me to pay taxes?

Why is my ID required to open a bank account?

Why do I need an ID / license to drive?

Why do I need proof of insurance?

Why do I have to register for W-9s at work?

Why do people need licenses to do particular jobs?
 
2014-04-29 09:26:45 PM  

KIA: Why is my ID used to force me to pay taxes?

Why is my ID required to open a bank account?

Why do I need an ID / license to drive?

Why do I need proof of insurance?

Why do I have to register for W-9s at work?

Why do people need licenses to do particular jobs?


Why do people start talking about Voter ID shortly before elections where there's barely a handful of provable cases of voter fraud?
 
2014-04-29 09:28:39 PM  

KIA: Why is my ID used to force me to pay taxes?


Go home KIA, you're drunk.
 
2014-04-29 09:35:29 PM  

KIA: Why is my ID used to force me to pay taxes?


It's not.

Why is my ID required to open a bank account?

Opening a bank account is not a constitutional right
  Why do I need an ID / license to drive?

Driving is not a constitutional right.

Why do I need proof of insurance?

Assuming you're talking about auto insurance, driving is not a constitutional right.

Why do I have to register for W-9s at work?

That is a condition of employment, a choice, and again, not a constitutionally guaranteed right.

Why do people need licenses to do particular jobs?

That is a condition of employment, a choice, and again, not a constitutionally guaranteed right.
 
2014-04-29 09:37:00 PM  

KIA: Why is my ID used to force me to pay taxes?

Why is my ID required to open a bank account?

Why do I need an ID / license to drive?

Why do I need proof of insurance?

Why do I have to register for W-9s at work?

Why do people need licenses to do particular jobs?


Scared white person-like typing detected.

Why don't these apples taste anything like these oranges?
 
2014-04-29 09:38:03 PM  
The next thing to go down should be the requirement to show ID when buying a gun from a dealer. Or should the poor and minorities not be allowed to defend themselves? If you believe people should be required to provide ID to buy a firearm how do you justify your classism and racism?
 
2014-04-29 09:38:31 PM  
Jim Crow 2.0 is on hold in Wisconsin for at least a few months.
 
2014-04-29 09:39:10 PM  
Three Crooked Squirrels:

However, I disagree about Roberts. Seems to me he wants a legacy as much as anything else. Also seems to me that he wants the swing role Kennedy once had. A true swing justice wields a lot of power.

Not saying you are wrong, but what are some good examples of Roberts "legacy over ideology" votes?
 
2014-04-29 09:40:00 PM  
They were trying to filter, not stuff.
 
2014-04-29 09:43:31 PM  

Hollie Maea: namatad: it will be QUITE interesting to watch how SCOTUS decides

No it won't. The SCOTUS will endorse Scotty's law, 5-4.  Kennedy hasn't been a swing vote for years.  He has presumably been watching the same Fox News shows that has turned your parents into fascists.

And don't give me any bull about how Roberts might be "reasonable".  He only "sided" with Obama on Obamacare because he thought it would cost him re election.  Upholding it as a tax was a troll decision, and nothing more.


Hollie Maea: Oh, and Kennedy will write the majority opinion, explaining that you can count on people to not abuse the law, and besides, racism and discrimination have been dead for decades.

/Book it.



That or just overturn the ruling on the basis of the plaintiffs' lack of standing, since they had not yet been disenfranchised at the time they filed the lawsuit. Such a ruling would have the effects of not only reinstating Wisconsin's Voter ID law, but also guaranteeing that it stays in place for at least one major statewide election and preventing this lawsuit from being used as precedent in other lawsuits (including a lawsuit by the same plaintiffs)


/whether the USSC upholds or overturns the lower court's decision, it'll be a 5-4 ruling
 
2014-04-29 09:49:06 PM  

KIA: Why is my ID used to force me to pay taxes?

Why is my ID required to open a bank account?

Why do I need an ID / license to drive?

Why do I need proof of insurance?

Why do I have to register for W-9s at work?

Why do people need licenses to do particular jobs?


Why did anyone ever tell you that you had any sense of how to compare things?
 
2014-04-29 09:49:49 PM  

WhiskeySticks: Not all hope is lost. Glad someone in this state decided to stand up.


Adelman's been agitating Republicans out here forever; the ruling was practically a forgone conclusion.
 
2014-04-29 09:50:11 PM  
I hate to you all this but I wouldnt be surprised if Gov Derpyhooves and his cronies in the state senate/assembly quick put something into place changing a word or two to fix this election in 2014 for ol Scooter. For sure in 2016 to make sure another Dem doesn't win the state again.
 
2014-04-29 09:50:18 PM  

Hollie Maea: Three Crooked Squirrels:

However, I disagree about Roberts. Seems to me he wants a legacy as much as anything else. Also seems to me that he wants the swing role Kennedy once had. A true swing justice wields a lot of power.

Not saying you are wrong, but what are some good examples of Roberts "legacy over ideology" votes?


Obamacare for one. And the perpetual determination that nobody has standing to bring a case against any companies.
 
2014-04-29 09:58:58 PM  

namatad: fusillade762: I'm sure SCOTUS will take care of that eventually.

alas, it will be QUITE interesting to watch how SCOTUS decides this.
Because the logic of this decision is irrefutable, you are harming a MUCH larger number of citizens than you are preventing from committing fraud.

the net effect of the law is to clearly do harm, not prevent harm


well SCOTUS decided that racism was over so we didn't need affirmative action or those voting laws in the south to protect minorities.
so if something doesn't exist we don't need laws protecting against it right?
 
2014-04-29 10:01:57 PM  

BSABSVR: KIA: Why is my ID used to force me to pay taxes?

Why is my ID required to open a bank account?

Why do I need an ID / license to drive?

Why do I need proof of insurance?

Why do I have to register for W-9s at work?

Why do people need licenses to do particular jobs?

Why did anyone ever tell you that you had any sense of how to compare things?


Why does my toe hurt?
 
2014-04-29 10:04:58 PM  
Huh.  I always thought Dems used the rationale of requiring car insurance was the reason why requiring health insurance was okay.   Isn't it much more of a burden to require people to sign up for health insurance and pay premiums than it is to get a picture ID?
 
2014-04-29 10:10:06 PM  
Why is my ID required to prove my age to bartenders?

Why is my ID the best way to crush and snort lines?

Why is ID software no longer releasing Doom games?

Why do I need life insurance?

Why do I have to register before I can post on FARK?

Why does James Bond need a license to kill?

Why I laugh?
 
2014-04-29 10:10:40 PM  

Flashlight: The next thing to go down should be the requirement to show ID when buying a gun from a dealer.


Buying a gun is not a constitutional right, unlike voting.
 
2014-04-29 10:12:42 PM  

Flashlight: The next thing to go down should be the requirement to show ID when buying a gun from a dealer. Or should the poor and minorities not be allowed to defend themselves? If you believe people should be required to provide ID to buy a firearm how do you justify your classism and racism?


I know you're a known trolling shiat, but since real life right wingers use this argument...

Guns:  For obvious reasons, insane criminals aren't allowed to purchase weapons.  ID is required to prevent them from killing people.

Voting:  ID's are wanted by Republicans to keep people from voting for Demoncrats.

Now, one of these goals is a compelling public interest.  And one is just unAmerican bullshiat that you should be ashamed of.
 
2014-04-29 10:12:42 PM  

tbeatty: Huh. I always thought Dems used the rationale of requiring car insurance was the reason why requiring health insurance was okay. Isn't it much more of a burden to require people to sign up for health insurance and pay premiums than it is to get a picture ID?


You can sign up for health insurance over a telephone, and if you can't afford it, you either get medicare or the requirement is waived.  That's not very burdensome.

But you already know it's a really stupid comparison.
 
2014-04-29 10:15:22 PM  

Flashlight: The next thing to go down should be the requirement to show ID when buying a gun from a dealer. Or should the poor and minorities not be allowed to defend themselves? If you believe people should be required to provide ID to buy a firearm how do you justify your classism and racism?


Goddamn but you gun nuts will just leap at the chance of grinding your pet axe at the slightest provocation regardless of whether it has anything to do with the topic at hand.
 
2014-04-29 10:15:48 PM  

KIA: Why is my ID used to force me to pay taxes?

Why is my ID required to open a bank account?

Why do I need an ID / license to drive?

Why do I need proof of insurance?

Why do I have to register for W-9s at work?

Why do people need licenses to do particular jobs?


Papers please.
 
2014-04-29 10:15:50 PM  

you are a puppet: Why is my ID required to prove my age to bartenders?

Why is my ID the best way to crush and snort lines?

Why is ID software no longer releasing Doom games?

Why do I need life insurance?

Why do I have to register before I can post on FARK?

Why does James Bond need a license to kill?

Why I laugh?


Why don't you answer my question about my toe hurting?
 
2014-04-29 10:16:10 PM  

BSABSVR: Angela Lansbury's Merkin: Marcus Aurelius: It's meant to stop legitimate voters from voting.

Legitimate voters?  Since when are poor people and the elderly legitimate voters?

The elderly are super legitimate voters.  If they are white, middle class and just feel uncomfortable around the coloreds.

Well, in the GOP's worldview, there (R) legitimate voters, and (D)legitimate voters.
 
2014-04-29 10:17:19 PM  

JosephFinn: Flashlight: The next thing to go down should be the requirement to show ID when buying a gun from a dealer.

Buying a gun is not a constitutional right, unlike voting.


Oh, I *like* you.
 
2014-04-29 10:18:48 PM  

JosephFinn: Flashlight: The next thing to go down should be the requirement to show ID when buying a gun from a dealer.

Buying a gun is not a constitutional right, unlike voting.


JosephFinn: Flashlight: The next thing to go down should be the requirement to show ID when buying a gun from a dealer.

Buying a gun is not a constitutional right, unlike voting.


I am pretty sure it is.
 
2014-04-29 10:19:45 PM  

you are a puppet: Why is my ID required to prove my age to bartenders?

Why is my ID the best way to crush and snort lines?

Why is ID software no longer releasing Doom games?

Why do I need life insurance?

Why do I have to register before I can post on FARK?

Why does James Bond need a license to kill?

Why I laugh?


Why do fools fall in love?
 
2014-04-29 10:21:25 PM  

Mrtraveler01: you are a puppet: Why is my ID required to prove my age to bartenders?

Why is my ID the best way to crush and snort lines?

Why is ID software no longer releasing Doom games?

Why do I need life insurance?

Why do I have to register before I can post on FARK?

Why does James Bond need a license to kill?

Why I laugh?

Why do fools fall in love?


Why do birds suddenly appear every time you are near?
 
2014-04-29 10:21:36 PM  

tbeatty: Huh.  I always thought Dems used the rationale of requiring car insurance was the reason why requiring health insurance was okay.   Isn't it much more of a burden to require people to sign up for health insurance and pay premiums than it is to get a picture ID?


I'm almost entirely sure that you can forgo purchasing health insurance and still vote.
 
2014-04-29 10:23:38 PM  

Satanic_Hamster: Flashlight: The next thing to go down should be the requirement to show ID when buying a gun from a dealer. Or should the poor and minorities not be allowed to defend themselves? If you believe people should be required to provide ID to buy a firearm how do you justify your classism and racism?

I know you're a known trolling shiat, but since real life right wingers use this argument...

Guns:  For obvious reasons, insane criminals aren't allowed to purchase weapons.  ID is required to prevent them from killing people.

Voting:  ID's are wanted by Republicans to keep people from voting for Demoncrats.

Now, one of these goals is a compelling public interest.  And one is just unAmerican bullshiat that you should be ashamed of.


I actually am ashamed of voter ID laws. But unlike you I am consistent in my support of freedom. You just want get blacks to vote then send them back into the ghetto to be murdered whereas I believe that they should be able to defend themselves.
 
2014-04-29 10:25:49 PM  

Flashlight: JosephFinn: Flashlight: The next thing to go down should be the requirement to show ID when buying a gun from a dealer.

Buying a gun is not a constitutional right, unlike voting.

JosephFinn: Flashlight: The next thing to go down should be the requirement to show ID when buying a gun from a dealer.

Buying a gun is not a constitutional right, unlike voting.

I am pretty sure it is.


No. Possessing a gun is a constitutional right.
 
2014-04-29 10:27:13 PM  

Fart_Machine: Mrtraveler01: you are a puppet: Why is my ID required to prove my age to bartenders?

Why is my ID the best way to crush and snort lines?

Why is ID software no longer releasing Doom games?

Why do I need life insurance?

Why do I have to register before I can post on FARK?

Why does James Bond need a license to kill?

Why I laugh?

Why do fools fall in love?

Why do birds suddenly appear every time you are near?


Why do I have to get an ID number for when babby fully formed?
 
2014-04-29 10:27:50 PM  

Hollie Maea: Three Crooked Squirrels:

However, I disagree about Roberts. Seems to me he wants a legacy as much as anything else. Also seems to me that he wants the swing role Kennedy once had. A true swing justice wields a lot of power.

Not saying you are wrong, but what are some good examples of Roberts "legacy over ideology" votes?


Obamacare and Cal Prop 8 come to mind. He came down on the liberal side of each of those, but didn't have to really accept liberal arguments. In one, he settled on the tax idea, in the other, he broke a tie on a technicality. To me, both reek of him wanting to cast a surprising vote in a HUGE case, but not wanting the decision to hold much precedence beyond the unique cases before the court. Just my impression.
 
2014-04-29 10:29:07 PM  

you are a puppet: Why is my ID required to prove my age to bartenders?

Why is my ID the best way to crush and snort lines?

Why is ID software no longer releasing Doom games?

Why do I need life insurance?

Why do I have to register before I can post on FARK?

Why does James Bond need a license to kill?

Why I laugh?


Why do liberals not complain about Paula Zahn's show on ID?

Why do Freudian liberals think black people can only possess ego and superego?
 
2014-04-29 10:29:09 PM  
Study it out sheeple, study it out.
 
2014-04-29 10:31:11 PM  
Photo IDs are free in Wisconsin, not having one just seems weird.

also the 7th circuit will probably overturn Adelman for the thousandth time
 
2014-04-29 10:31:44 PM  

BSABSVR: you are a puppet: Why is my ID required to prove my age to bartenders?

Why is my ID the best way to crush and snort lines?

Why is ID software no longer releasing Doom games?

Why do I need life insurance?

Why do I have to register before I can post on FARK?

Why does James Bond need a license to kill?

Why I laugh?

Why do liberals not complain about Paula Zahn's show on ID?

Why do Freudian liberals think black people can only possess ego and superego?


Why does Taco Bell think their Breakfast Taco was actually a good idea?
 
2014-04-29 10:36:04 PM  
Some Farkers need to go back and refresh their GEDs in Law.
 
2014-04-29 10:38:41 PM  

Mrtraveler01: BSABSVR: you are a puppet: Why is my ID required to prove my age to bartenders?

Why is my ID the best way to crush and snort lines?

Why is ID software no longer releasing Doom games?

Why do I need life insurance?

Why do I have to register before I can post on FARK?

Why does James Bond need a license to kill?

Why I laugh?

Why do liberals not complain about Paula Zahn's show on ID?

Why do Freudian liberals think black people can only possess ego and superego?

Why does Taco Bell think their Breakfast Taco was actually a good idea?


Why is getting drunk not a right?
 
2014-04-29 10:39:03 PM  
Coolio.
 
2014-04-29 10:39:59 PM  

jso2897: Some Farkers need to go back and refresh their GEDs in Law.


more like a JED

/sorry
 
2014-04-29 10:48:23 PM  
Why ask why?

/Try Bud Dry
 
2014-04-29 10:48:45 PM  

Ken VeryBigLiar: WhiskeySticks: Not all hope is lost. Glad someone in this state decided to stand up.

Adelman's been agitating Republicans out here forever; the ruling was practically a forgone conclusion.


Adelman - the former democrat state senator Adelman?
This was the only possible outcome.
 
2014-04-29 10:49:03 PM  

KIA: Why is my ID used to force me to pay taxes?

Why is my ID required to open a bank account?

Why do I need an ID / license to drive?

Why do I need proof of insurance?

Why do I have to register for W-9s at work?

Why do people need licenses to do particular jobs?


I don't seem to recall ever needing a photo ID to pay taxes.

There's no enumerated right to be free of taxes, drive a car, start a bank account or be a doctor. I know you're being facetious but your point sucks. You don't need a photo ID to attend public school or use the postal service. These laws are stopping people from voting when turnout is abysmal and fraud is infinitesimal.
 
2014-04-29 10:52:42 PM  

Robin Hoodie: Photo IDs are free in Wisconsin, not having one just seems weird.

also the 7th circuit will probably overturn Adelman for the thousandth time


Keeping the address on your photo ID up to date in time for every biannual bullshiat election is too much to ask for a lot of people who happen to vote democratic. Also there's no voter fraud.
 
2014-04-29 10:53:38 PM  

Flashlight: Satanic_Hamster: Flashlight: The next thing to go down should be the requirement to show ID when buying a gun from a dealer. Or should the poor and minorities not be allowed to defend themselves? If you believe people should be required to provide ID to buy a firearm how do you justify your classism and racism?

I know you're a known trolling shiat, but since real life right wingers use this argument...

Guns:  For obvious reasons, insane criminals aren't allowed to purchase weapons.  ID is required to prevent them from killing people.

Voting:  ID's are wanted by Republicans to keep people from voting for Demoncrats.

Now, one of these goals is a compelling public interest.  And one is just unAmerican bullshiat that you should be ashamed of.

I actually am ashamed of voter ID laws. But unlike you I am consistent in my support of freedom. You just want get blacks to vote then send them back into the ghetto to be murdered whereas I believe that they should be able to defend themselves.


So.. free guns for everyone?
 
2014-04-29 10:55:04 PM  

moothemagiccow: KIA: Why is my ID used to force me to pay taxes?

Why is my ID required to open a bank account?

Why do I need an ID / license to drive?

Why do I need proof of insurance?

Why do I have to register for W-9s at work?

Why do people need licenses to do particular jobs?

I don't seem to recall ever needing a photo ID to pay taxes.

There's no enumerated right to be free of taxes, drive a car, start a bank account or be a doctor. I know you're being facetious but your point sucks. You don't need a photo ID to attend public school or use the postal service. These laws are stopping people from voting when turnout is abysmal and fraud is infinitesimal.


I don't think you seem to understand the issue here.

Brown people are VOTING. Right here in the USA. And their votes even count as much as god-fearin' whitefolk. Can you imagine???
 
2014-04-29 11:03:45 PM  

Robin Hoodie: Photo IDs are free in Wisconsin, not having one just seems weird.

also the 7th circuit will probably overturn Adelman for the thousandth time


One difficulty for some poor people is having the supporting documentation to get one.  A birth certificate is typically the main way to do so for your first one at least, and you'd be amazed how many people don't have theirs or lost it.  Getting your birth certificate replaced is *not* free.  Also, check this shiat out, from the CDC.gov site, for Wisconsin residents who need a copy of their birth certificate:

Customers should use a state birth certificate application form to apply.  A copy of a valid photo ID and a signature is required of the applicant. Personal check or money order should be made payable to State of Wisconsin Vital Records.

So to get your birth certificate so you can get a photo ID, you require... a valid photo ID.
 
2014-04-29 11:05:46 PM  
Ahh, yes, Voter ID. It's like hearing a story from your aunt's plumber's cousin's Facebook about how one house down the block has a termite and then burning the entire town to the ground

If the Democrats were smart they'd propose a Voter ID law that provides state-issued ID cards at birth starting this year and goes fully into zero-exception, no card no vote effect in 2032. How could the GOP object? It would definitely solve their unsupported-by-fact claims of rampant "in person" voter fraud, so any other reason to move faster would be proof they're only worried about the "wrong" people voting.
 
2014-04-29 11:09:24 PM  

DemonEater: Robin Hoodie: Photo IDs are free in Wisconsin, not having one just seems weird.

also the 7th circuit will probably overturn Adelman for the thousandth time

One difficulty for some poor people is having the supporting documentation to get one.  A birth certificate is typically the main way to do so for your first one at least, and you'd be amazed how many people don't have theirs or lost it.  Getting your birth certificate replaced is *not* free.  Also, check this shiat out, from the CDC.gov site, for Wisconsin residents who need a copy of their birth certificate:

Customers should use a state birth certificate application form to apply.  A copy of a valid photo ID and a signature is required of the applicant. Personal check or money order should be made payable to State of Wisconsin Vital Records.

So to get your birth certificate so you can get a photo ID, you require... a valid photo ID.


that's just terrible, not to mention living in wisconsin without a photo ID would just be hell. How would you drink?
 
2014-04-29 11:09:53 PM  

Mr. Coffee Nerves: Ahh, yes, Voter ID. It's like hearing a story from your aunt's plumber's cousin's Facebook about how one house down the block has a termite and then burning the entire town to the ground

If the Democrats were smart they'd propose a Voter ID law that provides state-issued ID cards at birth starting this year and goes fully into zero-exception, no card no vote effect in 2032. How could the GOP object? It would definitely solve their unsupported-by-fact claims of rampant "in person" voter fraud, so any other reason to move faster would be proof they're only worried about the "wrong" people voting.


Or we could do what every other country does and have an ID card issued free of charge on the national level.

But that would make too much sense.
 
2014-04-29 11:14:14 PM  

Mrtraveler01: Mr. Coffee Nerves: Ahh, yes, Voter ID. It's like hearing a story from your aunt's plumber's cousin's Facebook about how one house down the block has a termite and then burning the entire town to the ground

If the Democrats were smart they'd propose a Voter ID law that provides state-issued ID cards at birth starting this year and goes fully into zero-exception, no card no vote effect in 2032. How could the GOP object? It would definitely solve their unsupported-by-fact claims of rampant "in person" voter fraud, so any other reason to move faster would be proof they're only worried about the "wrong" people voting.

Or we could do what every other country does and have an ID card issued free of charge on the national level.

But that would make too much sense.


I wonder how many people screaming for Voter ID laws would scream equally as loud against "the gubbmint" issuing national ID cards?
 
KIA
2014-04-29 11:20:31 PM  

Almet: KIA: Why is my ID used to force me to pay taxes?

It's not.

Why is my ID required to open a bank account?

Opening a bank account is not a constitutional right
  Why do I need an ID / license to drive?

Driving is not a constitutional right.

Why do I need proof of insurance?

Assuming you're talking about auto insurance, driving is not a constitutional right.

Why do I have to register for W-9s at work?

That is a condition of employment, a choice, and again, not a constitutionally guaranteed right.

Why do people need licenses to do particular jobs?

That is a condition of employment, a choice, and again, not a constitutionally guaranteed right.


Ok.  Why do I have to go through a background check to buy a gun?  That's a constitutionally guaranteed right.
 
2014-04-29 11:23:55 PM  
Almet: constitutionally guaranteed right

Why don't you dumbass Voter ID law supporters understand this? It is my right as an American citizen to be able to vote, GO FARK YOURSELF TRYING TO LIMIT ME. It doesn't matter how easy it is to get an ID, you don't need one to be able to vote. Period. End of discussion. Go touch yourself to your American flag lapel pin of Freedom some more you jackholes. Almet's got it right on, it is a right to vote and not a right to do pretty much anything else you try and compare ID use to.
 
2014-04-29 11:26:15 PM  

KIA: Why do I have to go through a background check to buy a gun?


You must find a legal way to obtain a gun through the laws of this country. The process of obtaining a gun is not a constitutional right. Having that gun, once you have gone through the process of legally obtaining one, is a right.
 
2014-04-29 11:26:30 PM  
This ruling will get overturned in higher courts, which have already ruled states can require ID to vote

Considering we need ID to do just about everything, it is a joke, and, direct attempt to commit vote fraud, by not requiring ID to vote.

Most states provide free official state ID cards to poor folks, so that is liberal BS that "Voter ID laws discriminate against the poor"
 
2014-04-29 11:27:37 PM  
All the abstract arguments in the world about voter fraud don't matter - at all - as long as empirical reality continues to show that voter fraud is an incredibly minor issue, and voter ID laws actually disenfranchise people. Period. The abstract theory behind it, whether sincere or not, is pretty much irrelevant.

It's as if someone decided that we need to license newspapers because failing to do so would result in an imminent alien invasion. Whether or not you can form an abstract argument around that is irrelevant - there are no aliens.
 
2014-04-29 11:28:47 PM  
Either we allow Voter ID and issue National ID cards free of charge or we don't have any Voter ID at all. That's my view on the whole thing. Seems like a sensible one to me.
 
KIA
2014-04-29 11:29:07 PM  

Triple Oak: It is my right as an American citizen to be able to vote


Agreed.  Show you're a citizen living by the rules paying taxes etc. and vote in every election.
 
2014-04-29 11:29:22 PM  

Mrtraveler01: Mr. Coffee Nerves: Ahh, yes, Voter ID. It's like hearing a story from your aunt's plumber's cousin's Facebook about how one house down the block has a termite and then burning the entire town to the ground

If the Democrats were smart they'd propose a Voter ID law that provides state-issued ID cards at birth starting this year and goes fully into zero-exception, no card no vote effect in 2032. How could the GOP object? It would definitely solve their unsupported-by-fact claims of rampant "in person" voter fraud, so any other reason to move faster would be proof they're only worried about the "wrong" people voting.

Or we could do what every other country does and have an ID card issued free of charge on the national level.

But that would make too much sense.


A national registry would have its own risk of abuse... Granted it would simplify and streamline many things...
 
2014-04-29 11:29:33 PM  

Mr. Coffee Nerves: Mrtraveler01: Mr. Coffee Nerves: Ahh, yes, Voter ID. It's like hearing a story from your aunt's plumber's cousin's Facebook about how one house down the block has a termite and then burning the entire town to the ground

If the Democrats were smart they'd propose a Voter ID law that provides state-issued ID cards at birth starting this year and goes fully into zero-exception, no card no vote effect in 2032. How could the GOP object? It would definitely solve their unsupported-by-fact claims of rampant "in person" voter fraud, so any other reason to move faster would be proof they're only worried about the "wrong" people voting.

Or we could do what every other country does and have an ID card issued free of charge on the national level.

But that would make too much sense.

I wonder how many people screaming for Voter ID laws would scream equally as loud against "the gubbmint" issuing national ID cards?


Doesn't matter. The people who would scream about that have no idea how much the government protects and serves them (yes, even as more rulings pile up for corporations and against people, the government still does a lot to help regulate). I would support the idea. Then again, as a legal citizen, I have a SSN card, so I think we have a good basis for identification and ID cards.
 
KIA
2014-04-29 11:32:21 PM  

Triple Oak: The process of obtaining a gun is not a constitutional right.


Fascinating.  So, your right to free speech is conditional on not having your mouth glued shut?
 
2014-04-29 11:33:00 PM  
KIA: Why does 0bama force me to breathe oxygen?

Why does the federal government require the Earth to be an oblate spheroid?

Why do I need food?

Why do I need an organ called a "heart" to pump "blood" around tubes inside this horrible body I'm forced to wear?

Why do I have to look at a narrow section of the electromagmetic spectrum through these globs of jelly!?

Why am I forced to participate in civilization?
 
2014-04-29 11:35:23 PM  

KIA: Triple Oak: It is my right as an American citizen to be able to vote

Agreed.  Show you're a citizen living by the rules paying taxes etc. and vote in every election.


I already do. But I'm not the target of disenfranchisement. Voter ID law supporters SHOULD have to prove how rampant a problem this is (it isn't) and then prove that the proposed laws would stop it completely (stop something already pretty much non-existent). They should also prove where in the Constitution it says your right to vote comes with an asterisk that says you need an ID as requested in these laws.

I will watch to see this go all the way to the SCOTUS but right now we already have a judge's ruling on why it won't work as they say it will. That's a damn great start.
 
2014-04-29 11:38:04 PM  

KIA: Triple Oak: The process of obtaining a gun is not a constitutional right.

Fascinating.  So, your right to free speech is conditional on not having your mouth glued shut?


Speech comes in more forms than just the words that come from your mouth. Stop being obtuse or show me where the Constitution says your right to vote is dependent on having an ID.
 
2014-04-29 11:38:47 PM  
Voter ID laws suffer from this most basic issue of governance. Let's make it extremely abstract.

Let's say I want to pass a law to prevent X from happening. Everyone agrees that X is a bad thing. The unintended (let's assume unintended) consequence of passing this law is that certain people will no longer be able to exercise a constitutionally protected right.

Here's the most basic question I can ask - does the state have any obligation at all to prove X is a real world problem rather than a theoretical one?
 
2014-04-29 11:45:17 PM  
Win or lose, they'll still be able to count on Waukesha County to find just enough Republican votes at the last minute to swing the election.
 
2014-04-29 11:46:38 PM  
 
2014-04-29 11:53:26 PM  

that bosnian sniper: Win or lose, they'll still be able to count on Waukesha County to find just enough Republican votes at the last minute to swing the election.


You make a great assumption that Burke will even be within three points.  She barely has name recognition at this point and she's running unopposed.
 
2014-04-29 11:54:10 PM  

Hollie Maea: namatad: it will be QUITE interesting to watch how SCOTUS decides

No it won't. The SCOTUS will endorse Scotty's law, 5-4.  Kennedy hasn't been a swing vote for years.  He has presumably been watching the same Fox News shows that has turned your parents into fascists.

And don't give me any bull about how Roberts might be "reasonable".  He only "sided" with Obama on Obamacare because he thought it would cost him re election.  Upholding it as a tax was a troll decision, and nothing more.


"There is no right more basic in our democracy than the right to participate in electing our political leaders,"

John Roberts ~ McCutcheon v. FEC


If this ends up before SCOTUS I hope people have huge farking signs made with that on it.
 
2014-04-29 11:57:52 PM  

Triple Oak: Speech comes in more forms than just the words that come from your mouth. Stop being obtuse or show me where the Constitution says your right to vote is dependent on having an ID.


Money, yes. Voting, no.

I just did about fifteen minutes' worth of digging around to verify my memory, but the closest you'll ever find in terms of Supreme Court jurisprudence on the subject of voting as protected by the First Amendment, is  Burdick v. Takushi (504 US 428, 1992). that was a decision about a Hawaii state law prohibiting write-in voting.  SCOTUS rejected the argument and upheld the law as Constitutional, not only using rational basis but going so far as to specifically reject strict scrutiny on somereally dodgy grounds.

By the way, Kennedy wrote an interesting dissent. Interesting in the sense it's oddly fascinating how derpy he's become in the last twenty years.
 
2014-04-29 11:57:52 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: "The defendants could not point to a single instance of known voter impersonation occurring in Wisconsin at any time in the recent past."

The law isn't meant to stop fraud.  It's meant to stop legitimate voters from voting.  In that sense, it works exactly as designed.

/as do all voter id laws


Georgia's law was upheld after they put in a provision for elections offices to make free voter photo IDs for anyone who wants one.

Oddly enough, you don't have to show a picture ID to get the picture ID required for you to vote. My head hurts.
 
KIA
2014-04-29 11:58:13 PM  

Triple Oak: Voter ID law supporters SHOULD have to prove how rampant a problem this is (it isn't) and then prove that the proposed laws would stop it completely (stop something already pretty much non-existent).


I keep hearing everyone say that (yes, I understand that this particular judge said it too) but seems to be a hotly contested issue.  There have been a number of instances of referrals for prosecution and even convictions, deportations, ect.:

http://www.usnews.com/debate-club/is-voter-fraud-a-real-problem

http://www.truethevote.org/news/how-widespread-is-voter-fraud-2012-f ac ts-figures

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/368234/voter-fraud-weve-got-pr oo f-its-easy-john-fund

http://www.dailytarheel.com/article/2014/04/study-finds-765-cases-of -n c-voter-fraud-in-2012-election

There have been indictments of public officials in charge of registration and voting:

http://www.walb.com/story/16104533/12-indicted-for-voter-fraud

Sheriffs have called people to interfere with the voting process:

http://theadvocate.com/news/applatestnews/8757760-123/investigation- la unched-into-voter-fraud

So, it is -a- problem but you contend it isn't severe enough to merit public action.  Statistically, there are a lot of things that aren't large enough to actually merit public action - mass shootings, texting while driving deaths, drownings in swimming pools - but people try to force action anyway.  Are they villains for trying to solve a problem even if it is a small one?
 
2014-04-29 11:58:54 PM  
Cats shoot people who think they can take away cat's inalienable right to vote.

/rubber band guns
 
2014-04-30 12:04:36 AM  

KIA: Triple Oak: Voter ID law supporters SHOULD have to prove how rampant a problem this is (it isn't) and then prove that the proposed laws would stop it completely (stop something already pretty much non-existent).

I keep hearing everyone say that (yes, I understand that this particular judge said it too) but seems to be a hotly contested issue.  There have been a number of instances of referrals for prosecution and even convictions, deportations, ect.:

http://www.usnews.com/debate-club/is-voter-fraud-a-real-problem

http://www.truethevote.org/news/how-widespread-is-voter-fraud-2012-f ac ts-figures

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/368234/voter-fraud-weve-got-pr oo f-its-easy-john-fund

http://www.dailytarheel.com/article/2014/04/study-finds-765-cases-of -n c-voter-fraud-in-2012-election

There have been indictments of public officials in charge of registration and voting:

http://www.walb.com/story/16104533/12-indicted-for-voter-fraud

Sheriffs have called people to interfere with the voting process:

http://theadvocate.com/news/applatestnews/8757760-123/investigation- la unched-into-voter-fraud

So, it is -a- problem but you contend it isn't severe enough to merit public action.  Statistically, there are a lot of things that aren't large enough to actually merit public action - mass shootings, texting while driving deaths, drownings in swimming pools - but people try to force action anyway.  Are they villains for trying to solve a problem even if it is a small one?


Doesn't help that you use right-wing sources like National Review (John Fund) and True The Vote to back up your claims.

The other claims you cited were very small and most likely would not have been prevented with Voter ID because the fraud happened with absentee ballots (like the one in Georgia). But this bit from the Daily Tar Heel was my favorite:

"With a voter ID requirement, anyone who wanted to commit this type of fraud would have to go out of her way to get forged identification to go along with the transplanted voter's name and address," Kokai said. "The fraud still could take place, but the voter ID would serve as a deterrent."

Sounds like a worthwhile effort to take if even the advocates of Voter ID admit that it might not stop voter fraud.
 
2014-04-30 12:05:30 AM  

KIA: Why is my ID used to force me to pay taxes?

Why is my ID required to open a bank account?

Why do I need an ID / license to drive?

Why do I need proof of insurance?

Why do I have to register for W-9s at work?

Why do people need licenses to do particular jobs?


You have to show ID when you register to vote. You are then issued ann ID card that says you can vote. When you go to vote, you have to sign the book, also a form of ID, before you can vote.

I think it's pretty well covered already/
 
KIA
2014-04-30 12:06:19 AM  

Triple Oak: Speech comes in more forms than just the words that come from your mouth. Stop being obtuse or show me where the Constitution says your right to vote is dependent on having an ID.


Actually, you need to review where your alleged right to vote comes from.  There is this:

Art. 1, Section 4
1:  The Times, Places and Manner of holding Elections for Senators and Representatives, shall be prescribed in each State by the Legislature thereof; but the Congress may at any time by Law make or alter such Regulations, except as to the Places of chusing Senators.

And then the Seveneenth Amendment:

The Senate of the United States shall be composed of two Senators from each State, elected by the people thereof, for six years; and each Senator shall have one vote.

And, of course, the Twenty-Fourth Amendment:

The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any primary or other election for President or Vice President, for electors for President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any state by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax.

It's that last one, the poll tax, which is being touted as the reason why voter ID laws cannot be enforced, because there is a cost to getting some IDs so people are claiming it is a poll tax.

However, you don't even get there if the person isn't a citizen in the first place because the right only exists for citizens, see the first clause of the sentence.
 
2014-04-30 12:07:51 AM  

KIA: t's that last one, the poll tax, which is being touted as the reason why voter ID laws cannot be enforced, because there is a cost to getting some IDs so people are claiming it is a poll tax.

However, you don't even get there if the person isn't a citizen in the first place because the right only exists for citizens, see the first clause of the sentence.


It's not a poll tax? Why should people have to pay an ID to vote?

I mean I guess if we started offering ID's on a national level like we wanted to do a few years back, but I guess that makes too much sense.
 
2014-04-30 12:11:46 AM  

that bosnian sniper: Money, yes. Voting, no.


The debate that I was responding to was about the First Amendment right of free speech, not the Constitutional Right to vote. I like the research though.
 
2014-04-30 12:13:04 AM  

Mrtraveler01: KIA: t's that last one, the poll tax, which is being touted as the reason why voter ID laws cannot be enforced, because there is a cost to getting some IDs so people are claiming it is a poll tax.

However, you don't even get there if the person isn't a citizen in the first place because the right only exists for citizens, see the first clause of the sentence.

It's not a poll tax? Why should people have to pay an ID to vote?

I mean I guess if we started offering ID's on a national level like we wanted to do a few years back, but I guess that makes too much sense.


I was told that a national ID card was just like Hitler.
 
2014-04-30 12:16:07 AM  

KIA: Ok.  Why do I have to go through a background check to buy a gun?  That's a constitutionally guaranteed right.


You have the right to own a gun, not buy a gun, the states have the right to regulate sales and the feds have the right to regulate interstate sales. Also you can buy a gun without a background check or ID at a gun show in 33 states. The courts have accepted that constitutional rights are limited - e.g. bomb threats are not legal.

Recall that there are a couple dozen other constitutional amendments, their order has no relevance to their importance and a fair few of them deal with voting rights. One such amendment is the 24th, which says

The right of citizens of the United States to vote in any primary or other election for President or Vice President, for electors for President or Vice President, or for Senator or Representative in Congress, shall not be denied or abridged by the United States or any State by reason of failure to pay any poll tax or other tax. 

Paying for an ID is a poll tax. Coincidentally, the same states instituting voter ID laws are the ones who used poll taxes, literacy tests and other voter suppression tactics to stop black people from voting a hundred years ago.

Unless they're giving out the IDs at the polls, essentially defeating the purpose of the ID law, it's not constitutional. As it stands, they're not even distributed during registration, and the documentation required to obtain a photo ID isn't valid documentation for voting, which is, frankly, completely legal but immensely stupid and ultimately pointless. If someone really wants to impersonate me at the polls, they can steal my SS card and create a fraudulent state ID with their face on it.

Also there's no voter fraud. The question we really should be asking is "how can we improve turnout?" and "how can we make voting more convenient" while taking into account possibilities of fraud in new voting methods. Currently I can pay my taxes online with no info other than my name and social security number, but it's impossible for me to vote online.
 
2014-04-30 12:22:08 AM  

KIA: Triple Oak: Speech comes in more forms than just the words that come from your mouth. Stop being obtuse or show me where the Constitution says your right to vote is dependent on having an ID.

Actually, you need to review where your alleged right to vote comes from.


And then whargarbll where the Constitution doesn't say you require an ID to vote. So you still haven't answered your question.

As for your links before, 1 is a debate on the subject, 2 shows problems that stretch far beyond "did they use an ID to vote" (like states not taking dead people from their voting ledgers), 3 demonstrates the same point (also starts with "Liberals" which, when you debate a non-partisan subject that happens to have mostly partisan splits, is a great way to captivate a certain kind of audience), 4 says maybe that amount (when originally they wanted to tout 35,000+ cases of "potential fraud" [and see there, potential is also not proving that it exists, but that it may exist, so actually prove those numbers and we'll see]), 5 has no details on what they did to be considered fraud (and also doesn't show whether they were found guilty or by what manner they "illegally" did anything), and 6 appears to be still investigating using means that aren't at all affected by whether or not the person has ID (also, who tries to fax in a vote? Is that still a thing?).

How about the states that have dead eligible voters go through their internal information and get rid of the dead people's names as eligible? That would solve way more problems that you haven't presented for fraud, right? Especially because two of your links confirm that (and one shows people knowingly breaking the law).
 
2014-04-30 12:27:32 AM  

KIA: So, it is -a- problem


Again, just to emphasize, nothing you posted proves that an ID would prevent alleged fraud related to the laws in place. More of your links suggest that states are being negligent with who's on the ledger when they have the information to make a change, and yet they would rather focus on something they can't prove. And there's a post earlier in the thread showing how hard it is to get an ID in Wisconsin in certain situations, like not having a birth certificate (and subsequently needing an ID to get a birth certificate copy to get an ID to vote).

Also, while this debate extends nationwide, none of what you've debated relates to this law in Wisconsin and the potential fraud here.
 
2014-04-30 12:30:04 AM  

Kittypie070: Cats shoot people who think they can take away cat's inalienable right to vote.

/rubber band guns


Cat defends its rights. I'm on board with this.
 
2014-04-30 12:34:33 AM  

Triple Oak: The debate that I was responding to was about the First Amendment right of free speech, not the Constitutional Right to vote. I like the research though.


Yes -- and for the conversation to have any relevance to the topic at hand, voting must first have be considered a form of speech protected by the First Amendment.

It's not.
 
2014-04-30 12:38:53 AM  
"Because virtually no voter impersonation occurs in Wisconsin and it is exceedingly unlikely that voter impersonation will become a problem in Wisconsin in the foreseeable future, this particular state interest has very little weight," he wrote.

"The defendants could not point to a single instance of known voter impersonation occurring in Wisconsin at any time in the recent past."

"The defendants could not point to a single instance of known voter impersonation occurring in Wisconsin at any time in the recent past."

"The defendants could not point to a single instance of known voter impersonation occurring in Wisconsin at any time in the recent past."


"The defendants could not point to a single instance of known voter impersonation occurring in Wisconsin at any time in the recent past."

"THE DEFENDANTS COULD NOT POINT TO A SINGLE INSTANCE OF KNOWN VOTER IMPERSONATION OCCURRING IN WISCONSIN AT ANY TIME IN THE RECENT PAST."


I thought I'd repeat this a few times. Of course the paid shills will keep lying about the purpose of "voter id" laws, but the fact remains that they never, ever have an answer to this: Their "solution" is to a problem that doesn't exist, and by pure coincidence happens to directly harm large numbers of legitimate voters who largely don't vote GOP.

Voter impersonation is nonexistent because it is, how to put this gently, farking stupid: Hey, I'll lie about who I am at the voting booth and risk thousands of dollars in fines and a felony conviction to adulterate one lousy vote! Hey, I'll organize a criminal conspiracy which must involve hundreds, possibly thousands, of conspirators to have any possibility of success! Nobody that stupid would ever be put in a charge of a vote fraud operation.
 
2014-04-30 12:44:37 AM  

Robin Hoodie: DemonEater: Robin Hoodie: Photo IDs are free in Wisconsin, not having one just seems weird.

also the 7th circuit will probably overturn Adelman for the thousandth time

One difficulty for some poor people is having the supporting documentation to get one.  A birth certificate is typically the main way to do so for your first one at least, and you'd be amazed how many people don't have theirs or lost it.  Getting your birth certificate replaced is *not* free.  Also, check this shiat out, from the CDC.gov site, for Wisconsin residents who need a copy of their birth certificate:

Customers should use a state birth certificate application form to apply.  A copy of a valid photo ID and a signature is required of the applicant. Personal check or money order should be made payable to State of Wisconsin Vital Records.

So to get your birth certificate so you can get a photo ID, you require... a valid photo ID.

that's just terrible, not to mention living in wisconsin without a photo ID would just be hell. How would you drink?


We don't need id to drink here.

 
2014-04-30 12:46:20 AM  

that bosnian sniper: Triple Oak: The debate that I was responding to was about the First Amendment right of free speech, not the Constitutional Right to vote. I like the research though.

Yes -- and for the conversation to have any relevance to the topic at hand, voting must first have be considered a form of speech protected by the First Amendment.

It's not.


Yeah, he was just trying to debate other constitutional rights. It's not related of course and he still can't, like the defendants in this case, prove there is fraud the way the law says there is, but he tried. And was shot down.
 
2014-04-30 12:46:32 AM  

Vodka Zombie: KIA:

Why don't these apples taste anything like these oranges?


Ummm...those are potatoes.
 
2014-04-30 12:56:09 AM  

Ishidan: Vodka Zombie: KIA:

Why don't these apples taste anything like these oranges?


Ummm...those are potatoes.


GODS DAMMIT I DEMAND THAT MY POTATOES TASTE EXACTLY LIKE FRIED SKINKS ON A STICK!!
 
2014-04-30 12:57:37 AM  

Triple Oak: KIA: Why do I have to go through a background check to buy a gun?

You must find a legal way to obtain a gun through the laws of this country. The process of obtaining a gun is not a constitutional right. Having that gun, once you have gone through the process of legally obtaining one, is a right.


The same thing could be said about voting by voter-ID supporters. "Voting, once you've gone through the process of proving you're eligible, is a right."
 
2014-04-30 01:02:07 AM  

MrHappyRotter: Study it out sheeple, study it out.


img.photobucket.com
 
2014-04-30 01:05:46 AM  

erik-k: "THE DEFENDANTS COULD NOT POINT TO A SINGLE INSTANCE OF KNOWN VOTER IMPERSONATION OCCURRING IN WISCONSIN AT ANY TIME IN THE RECENT PAST."


That should be the end of it, but we live in a post evidence society.
 
2014-04-30 01:06:22 AM  

FlyinS: Brown people are VOTING. Right here in the USA. And their votes even count as much as god-fearin' whitefolk. Can you imagine???


Not only that, but they're voting wrong!  How dare they vote according to the circumstances that we bigots (who aren't bigots, YOU'RE THE BIGOTS, take that Dimocrap!) put them in so we have to think about our attitudes!

It is interesting to see the trolls coming out.  Did Scott take the Flavor of the Month spot, hence why the trolls are now earning their paycheck trying to whiteknight his shiatty attempt to retain power even through he can't farking run a state?
 
2014-04-30 01:07:44 AM  
Just curious:  when all of these laws are struck down as being unconstitutional, what is the Republicans next action?  We know they're not going to change their tune, and filtering possible voters sick of their shiat really isn't feasible for a political party. What is next for them?
 
2014-04-30 01:08:13 AM  

100 Watt Walrus: Triple Oak: KIA: Why do I have to go through a background check to buy a gun?

You must find a legal way to obtain a gun through the laws of this country. The process of obtaining a gun is not a constitutional right. Having that gun, once you have gone through the process of legally obtaining one, is a right.

The same thing could be said about voting by voter-ID supporters. "Voting, once you've gone through the process of proving you're eligible, is a right."


That's not the debate they're having, though.
 
2014-04-30 01:15:02 AM  

Robin Hoodie: DemonEater: Robin Hoodie: Photo IDs are free in Wisconsin, not having one just seems weird.

also the 7th circuit will probably overturn Adelman for the thousandth time

One difficulty for some poor people is having the supporting documentation to get one.  A birth certificate is typically the main way to do so for your first one at least, and you'd be amazed how many people don't have theirs or lost it.  Getting your birth certificate replaced is *not* free.  Also, check this shiat out, from the CDC.gov site, for Wisconsin residents who need a copy of their birth certificate:

Customers should use a state birth certificate application form to apply.  A copy of a valid photo ID and a signature is required of the applicant. Personal check or money order should be made payable to State of Wisconsin Vital Records.

So to get your birth certificate so you can get a photo ID, you require... a valid photo ID.

that's just terrible, not to mention living in wisconsin without a photo ID would just be hell. How would you drink?


You'd drink the same as the rest of us. A lot.
Go to store or bar;
Ask for something;
Exchange green pieces of paper what you asked for.

The only places that really card are grocery stores, stadiums, and the bars downtown and on the east side of milwaukee.

That said, i doubt you need an ID for anything in Milwaukee's district 7.
 
2014-04-30 01:38:40 AM  
I find it interesting that Walker has said before that Voter ID laws is his number 1 priority, and will have a special session just to try and create another Voter ID law.

But jobs? Economy? nope, not worth the time
 
2014-04-30 01:39:22 AM  

FloridaFarkTag: Considering we need ID to do just about everything, it is a joke, and, direct attempt to commit vote fraud, by not requiring ID to vote.



1.  Decide to commit in-person voter fraud.
2.  Go to polls.
3.  Know the name and address of someone who is already registered.
4.  Say you are that person.
5.  Hope that person has not already voted.
6.  Repeat frequently enough to make a difference, committing a felony each time.


It's just so simple and totally plausible.

And apparently foolproof, since there have never been any reports of someone showing up to vote and discovering that an impersonator has already voted using their name.
 
2014-04-30 01:59:13 AM  

FloridaFarkTag: This ruling will get overturned in higher courts, which have already ruled states can require ID to vote

Considering we need ID to do just about everything, it is a joke, and, direct attempt to commit vote fraud, by not requiring ID to vote.

Most states provide free official state ID cards to poor folks, so that is liberal BS that "Voter ID laws discriminate against the poor"


durr
 
2014-04-30 02:01:47 AM  

Mrtraveler01: Mr. Coffee Nerves: Ahh, yes, Voter ID. It's like hearing a story from your aunt's plumber's cousin's Facebook about how one house down the block has a termite and then burning the entire town to the ground

If the Democrats were smart they'd propose a Voter ID law that provides state-issued ID cards at birth starting this year and goes fully into zero-exception, no card no vote effect in 2032. How could the GOP object? It would definitely solve their unsupported-by-fact claims of rampant "in person" voter fraud, so any other reason to move faster would be proof they're only worried about the "wrong" people voting.

Or we could do what every other country does and have an ID card issued free of charge on the national level.

But that would make too much sense.


Of course I haven't studied every other country out, but Denmark, for one, does not issue free photo ID cards.
If I need photo ID (which I can't actually recall ever having needed for anything besides passing through national borders, and I don't even need it for that within the Schengen area anymore), I have a passport that cost me about a hundred bucks years ago.
 
2014-04-30 02:04:05 AM  

floor: Mrtraveler01: BSABSVR: you are a puppet: Why is my ID required to prove my age to bartenders?

Why is my ID the best way to crush and snort lines?

Why is ID software no longer releasing Doom games?

Why do I need life insurance?

Why do I have to register before I can post on FARK?

Why does James Bond need a license to kill?

Why I laugh?

Why do liberals not complain about Paula Zahn's show on ID?

Why do Freudian liberals think black people can only possess ego and superego?

Why does Taco Bell think their Breakfast Taco was actually a good idea?

Why is getting drunk not a right?


Why do kids love the taste of Cinnamon Toast Crunch?
 
2014-04-30 02:05:04 AM  

KIA: Triple Oak: Voter ID law supporters SHOULD have to prove how rampant a problem this is (it isn't) and then prove that the proposed laws would stop it completely (stop something already pretty much non-existent).

I keep hearing everyone say that (yes, I understand that this particular judge said it too) but seems to be a hotly contested issue.  There have been a number of instances of referrals for prosecution and even convictions, deportations, ect.:

http://www.usnews.com/debate-club/is-voter-fraud-a-real-problem

http://www.truethevote.org/news/how-widespread-is-voter-fraud-2012-f ac ts-figures

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/368234/voter-fraud-weve-got-pr oo f-its-easy-john-fund

http://www.dailytarheel.com/article/2014/04/study-finds-765-cases-of -n c-voter-fraud-in-2012-election

There have been indictments of public officials in charge of registration and voting:

http://www.walb.com/story/16104533/12-indicted-for-voter-fraud

Sheriffs have called people to interfere with the voting process:

http://theadvocate.com/news/applatestnews/8757760-123/investigation- la unched-into-voter-fraud

So, it is -a- problem but you contend it isn't severe enough to merit public action.  Statistically, there are a lot of things that aren't large enough to actually merit public action - mass shootings, texting while driving deaths, drownings in swimming pools - but people try to force action anyway.  Are they villains for trying to solve a problem even if it is a small one?


Your first example of this "hotly contested issue" of voter fraud discusses voter registration, like a case of someone registering as Mickey Mouse. What does that have to do with actual voting or voter fraud? And the article just asks questions...ending with, "Is voter fraud a real problem?" Shockingly, they found 3 people who said yes, and three who said no. So, this is a BS story, and one not particularly well chosen by you, because it doesn't even support your argument. It's not a hotly contested issue, because people can't even agree that it's worth contesting at all.

And I didn't bother checking the rest of your links, because they are probably just as relevant.

So, well done.
 
2014-04-30 02:06:24 AM  

zenobia: Georgia's law was upheld after they put in a provision for elections offices to make free voter photo IDs for anyone who wants one.


And then you gotta spend a bunch of money to get to the DMV and back home again (if you're poor, you might not have a car).  And then there's the expense for the birth certificate.

At least that's how it is in NC.  I applied for a copy of my birth certificate.  It took $39, a pay stub and an electric bill, and they sent it by snail mail.  You can skip the $15 "expedite fee" and pay only $24, but they'll take their sweet time if you do that.  YMMV if you were born in another state.

The transportation cost might actually favor the Democrats.  Democrats are more likely to live in cities and have access to a bus system.

NC offers a "free" voter ID.  But if you can swing $39 for a birth certificate and maybe $30 for round trip cab fare, you can probably come up with the $10 for the regular ID card that you can use to buy beer and such.  (A driver's license is closer to $30.)

Officially, NC won't require voter ID until 2016, though word is they'll ask when you go to vote this year and just let you through if you say no.

Bottom line:  if you need ID, *get it now*.  Don't wait until the election is next week.
 
2014-04-30 02:07:55 AM  

KIA: So, it is -a- problem


Yeah according to you and a pile of worthless links. I'd rather just turn it around on you and point out how you want to keep brown people from voting.
 
2014-04-30 02:09:34 AM  

kkinnison: I find it interesting that Walker has said before that Voter ID laws is his number 1 priority, and will have a special session just to try and create another Voter ID law.

But jobs? Economy? nope, not worth the time


Seems to fit his pattern.
 
2014-04-30 02:25:29 AM  

moothemagiccow: The question we really should be asking is "how can we improve turnout?" and "how can we make voting more convenient"



A good start would be to do what every other civilized country has done: make voter registration automatic and universal, and make Election Day a federal holiday.

Won't ever happen though, because if everyone voted Republicans could never win any election ever again.
 
2014-04-30 02:27:38 AM  

DeltaPunch: floor: Mrtraveler01: BSABSVR: you are a puppet: Why is my ID required to prove my age to bartenders?

Why is my ID the best way to crush and snort lines?

Why is ID software no longer releasing Doom games?

Why do I need life insurance?

Why do I have to register before I can post on FARK?

Why does James Bond need a license to kill?

Why I laugh?

Why do liberals not complain about Paula Zahn's show on ID?

Why do Freudian liberals think black people can only possess ego and superego?

Why does Taco Bell think their Breakfast Taco was actually a good idea?

Why is getting drunk not a right?

Why do kids love the taste of Cinnamon Toast Crunch?


Why ask why?
 
2014-04-30 02:28:55 AM  

Alphax: kkinnison: I find it interesting that Walker has said before that Voter ID laws is his number 1 priority, and will have a special session just to try and create another Voter ID law.

But jobs? Economy? nope, not worth the time

Seems to fit his pattern.


I thought he created a bunch of jobs when he busted the unions.
 
2014-04-30 02:39:53 AM  
Why do republicans want to suppress minority votes? Well the answer is obvious if you are thinking of the leadership. But what about the average republican citizen? Based on the anecdotal evidence I have gathered from my conservative relatives, my suspicion is that it doesn't have nearly as much to do with fear of fraud as it does a desire to punish those they feel are deserving of it.

If someone can't be bothered to get a proper ID, they must be lazy. Therefore no vote for you!

It seems bonkers, but listening to my relatives pontificate, and knowing them the way I do, that's the conclusion I've reached. Think about it, it certainly fits with their other reactions to various issues.

Drug addict? Why should they get treatment instead of jail time?

Terrorists? Why shouldn't we torture them?

Birth control? Why should women be able to avoid pregnancy?

That's just off the top of my head. But it's clear republicans generally have a fixation on punishing those they perceive as having moral failings, regardless of whether it's helpful or harmful to society.

/My apologies if that was not particularly coherent, I've been awake too long and I've been drinking.
 
2014-04-30 02:49:32 AM  

Hollie Maea: moothemagiccow: The question we really should be asking is "how can we improve turnout?" and "how can we make voting more convenient"


A good start would be to do what every other civilized country has done: make voter registration automatic and universal, and make Election Day a federal holiday.


Maybe your'e just being stingy with the "civilized country" label, but I don't think most countries make election days holidays. I know my country doesn't, and neither do our neighbour nations, and we're all reasonably civilized on a good day.
Some of them hold general elections on Sundays, but that doesn't necessarily increase voter participation, and you're not the only country that decided that Tuesday is perfect for that kind of thing.

As long as authorities aren't putting up unreasonable administrative hurdles or physically preventing people from casting their ballot, high voter turnout has far more to do with whether the general population is interested and engaged in political issues on a day-to-day basis, than with logistics.
 
2014-04-30 02:55:32 AM  

Almet: KIA: Why is my ID used to force me to pay taxes?

It's not.

Why is my ID required to open a bank account?

Opening a bank account is not a constitutional right
  Why do I need an ID / license to drive?

Driving is not a constitutional right.

Why do I need proof of insurance?

Assuming you're talking about auto insurance, driving is not a constitutional right.

Why do I have to register for W-9s at work?

That is a condition of employment, a choice, and again, not a constitutionally guaranteed right.

Why do people need licenses to do particular jobs?

That is a condition of employment, a choice, and again, not a constitutionally guaranteed right.


Why do I need a special ID to bare a firearm?
 
2014-04-30 03:08:56 AM  

taurusowner:
Why do I need a special ID to bare a firearm?


Mmmm... Gun porn!
Also: Naked Gun.
 
2014-04-30 03:09:40 AM  
A fresh ID in the lefty state 'o' California costs something like 25 bucks these days, AKA a weeks worth of grub, roll 'o' toilet paper & cat food for the furry bastard.

I renewed it via DMV website and got it snail mailed to me within a week.

I am fortunate in that I actually have an operational pooter, a semi-operational local post office, and can afford to pay the bill for my ISP.

The last time I renewed it, it cost me SIX dollars and I'd gone in person to one of the local DMV offices. Yeah, it's been a while.

In addition to that noise, I have a silly little card someplace that I got for free when I sent in my voter's registration form waaaayyy back in 2003 that says I'm a registered voter in whatever blah whoopdeedoo party.

In Cali I have the opportunity to absentee-vote by mail, if I wish. There have been times when I have hand carried the sealed envelope to a physical polling place, went through the piddling check of voter records, and placed my paper vote in the lockbox.

I have also used those infernal Diebold electronic gadgets to vote.

It is WRONG to deprive American citizens of the right to vote, and I don't give a tinker's damn whether they vote for Pussy Galore or Richard Sh*t Nixon.
 
2014-04-30 03:17:19 AM  
Btw, Kittypie, is a skink anything like a skinke, or did you mean "fried skunks on a stick", in which latter case I'm not interested?
 
2014-04-30 03:18:31 AM  

Flashlight: The next thing to go down should be the requirement to show ID when buying a gun from a dealer. Or should the poor and minorities not be allowed to defend themselves? If you believe people should be required to provide ID to buy a firearm how do you justify your classism and racism?


People committing voter fraud don't leave dozens of children dead in voter fraud rampages?
 
2014-04-30 03:25:08 AM  

Triple Oak: KIA: Why do I have to go through a background check to buy a gun?

You must find a legal way to obtain a gun through the laws of this country. The process of obtaining a gun is not a constitutional right. Having that gun, once you have gone through the process of legally obtaining one, is a right.


So you're saying a "well-regulated militia" needs rules of some sort?
 
2014-04-30 03:35:26 AM  
It's just not fair that ALEC spends so much time and effort to buy these Voter ID laws, and the silly courts seem to think they can strike them down.

Next thing you know, somebody will want to investigate ALEC as being an undeclared lobbying organization masquerading as a non-profit group to launder corporate money for corporate interests.
 
2014-04-30 03:36:43 AM  

Kittypie070: I am fortunate in that I actually have an operational pooter


TMI
 
2014-04-30 03:39:47 AM  

Dansker: Btw, Kittypie, is a skink anything like a skinke, or did you mean "fried skunks on a stick", in which latter case I'm not interested?


Skinks are good eatin'.
 
2014-04-30 03:46:28 AM  

Dansker: Btw, Kittypie, is a skink anything like a skinke, or did you mean "fried skunks on a stick", in which latter case I'm not interested?


upload.wikimedia.org = skinke????


The blue-tailed critter below is definitely not a skunk. They really don't get fried and put on sticks either.

www.bearriverranch.com
 
2014-04-30 03:54:03 AM  

Kittypie070: Dansker: Btw, Kittypie, is a skink anything like a skinke, or did you mean "fried skunks on a stick", in which latter case I'm not interested?

[upload.wikimedia.org image 169x140] = skinke????


Yes, please! I'l take it on a stick, to go.

The blue-tailed critter below is definitely not a skunk. They really don't get fried and put on sticks either.

Lizards, eh? Well, in that case, I'm afraid that I am definitely so interested.
 
2014-04-30 04:58:42 AM  

Triple Oak: KIA: Triple Oak: The process of obtaining a gun is not a constitutional right.

Fascinating.  So, your right to free speech is conditional on not having your mouth glued shut?

Speech comes in more forms than just the words that come from your mouth. Stop being obtuse or show me where the Constitution says your right to vote is dependent on having an ID.


It doesn't have to - voting rights can be curtailed without being unconstitutional, and Voter ID laws could be valid, or other ways of regulating voting to ensure votes cast could be legitimate. However to be constitutional there would have to be a compelling government interest to have the law (i.e. proof of significant amounts of voter fraud) and the law would have to be the narrowest feasible way of fixing it (which could be debatable even if evidence of voter fraud in large numbers was found).
 
2014-04-30 05:23:24 AM  

Guntram Shatterhand: Just curious:  when all of these laws are struck down as being unconstitutional, what is the Republicans next action?  We know they're not going to change their tune, and filtering possible voters sick of their shiat really isn't feasible for a political party. What is next for them?


To try to repeal the voting rights act.
 
2014-04-30 05:45:11 AM  

DemonEater: Robin Hoodie: Photo IDs are free in Wisconsin, not having one just seems weird.

also the 7th circuit will probably overturn Adelman for the thousandth time

One difficulty for some poor people is having the supporting documentation to get one.  A birth certificate is typically the main way to do so for your first one at least, and you'd be amazed how many people don't have theirs or lost it.  Getting your birth certificate replaced is *not* free.  Also, check this shiat out, from the CDC.gov site, for Wisconsin residents who need a copy of their birth certificate:

Customers should use a state birth certificate application form to apply.  A copy of a valid photo ID and a signature is required of the applicant. Personal check or money order should be made payable to State of Wisconsin Vital Records.

So to get your birth certificate so you can get a photo ID, you require... a valid photo ID.


If one doesn't have one's birth certificate then how does one prove that one is not an illegal immigrant?
 
2014-04-30 06:01:20 AM  
Good.

It's obvious what these Voter ID laws are really about, and it's not preventing voter fraud as none of the disingenuous assholes pushing these laws can provide any evidence of widespread voter fraud at the polls.
 
2014-04-30 06:43:46 AM  

Kittypie070: Cats shoot people who think they can take away cat's inalienable right to vote.

/rubber band guns


pbs.twimg.com
This is how Kennedy won the 1960 election people.

Read a damn history book.
 
2014-04-30 07:26:34 AM  

bikerific: It's just so simple and totally plausible.

And apparently foolproof, since there have never been any reports of someone showing up to vote and discovering that an impersonator has already voted using their name.


Here's your damned proof! ;-)

viz.cwrl.utexas.edu
 
2014-04-30 07:39:28 AM  

KIA: Why is my ID used to force me to pay taxes?

Why is my ID required to open a bank account?

Why do I need an ID / license to drive?

Why do I need proof of insurance?

Why do I have to register for W-9s at work?

Why do people need licenses to do particular jobs?


Why can't I carry a bazooka onto an aircraft, as the constitution guarantees me the right to do?  Why are my basic human freedoms denied me?  Why can't I protect myself, and everyone else on the plane, from bad guys?
 
2014-04-30 07:59:54 AM  
It's too bad that the GOP doesn't spend as much of an effort getting people signed up for Photo ID as they do on preventing people from actually voting. It would be really simple for them to corner this issue if they started campaigns to get everything in place before they slammed the door shut on the millions of American's without Photo ID.

Spending a few years getting people ready to vote would make harsher ID laws easily acceptable, but once again it seems like the GOP wants to make it harder to get the ID, and harder to vote. Which is a bit like making sex education and birth control harder to get, as well as making abortion illegal.
 
2014-04-30 08:00:45 AM  

fusillade762: DeltaPunch: floor: Mrtraveler01: BSABSVR: you are a puppet: Why is my ID required to prove my age to bartenders?

Why is my ID the best way to crush and snort lines?

Why is ID software no longer releasing Doom games?

Why do I need life insurance?

Why do I have to register before I can post on FARK?

Why does James Bond need a license to kill?

Why I laugh?

Why do liberals not complain about Paula Zahn's show on ID?

Why do Freudian liberals think black people can only possess ego and superego?

Why does Taco Bell think their Breakfast Taco was actually a good idea?

Why is getting drunk not a right?

Why do kids love the taste of Cinnamon Toast Crunch?

Why ask why?


i.imgur.com Why are estuaries suddenly a trending topic?
 
2014-04-30 08:03:11 AM  
Act of fist judges!

Act of fist judges!
 
2014-04-30 08:18:18 AM  
If Republicans are so concerned about ensuring that we're able to accurately identify people for the purpose of exercising their constitutional rights, they should make some effort to ensure that everyone has a god damned ID.

At this point I'm ready for federal legislation requiring that everyone get either a bar code tattooed on their wrist or an RFID chip implanted.
 
2014-04-30 08:20:30 AM  

FnkyTwn: It's too bad that the GOP doesn't spend as much of an effort getting people signed up for Photo ID as they do on preventing people from actually voting. It would be really simple for them to corner this issue if they started campaigns to get everything in place before they slammed the door shut on the millions of American's without Photo ID.

Spending a few years getting people ready to vote would make harsher ID laws easily acceptable, but once again it seems like the GOP wants to make it harder to get the ID, and harder to vote. Which is a bit like making sex education and birth control harder to get, as well as making abortion illegal.


This is part of the GOP platform too.
 
2014-04-30 08:22:02 AM  

FnkyTwn: Spending a few years getting people ready to vote would make harsher ID laws easily acceptable, but once again it seems like the GOP wants to make it harder to get the ID, and harder to vote.


Although I'm a late comer to the thread... What's wrong with making it harder to vote? Do you really want someone who doesn't know a single name of one of their state representatives voting? Or who can't name a single branch of government?

You need a license to drive a car, why not pass a citizenship test to get a voting license (renewable every 10 years). It could come with an ID # that lets you vote electronically.
 
2014-04-30 08:27:29 AM  

Destructor: FnkyTwn: Spending a few years getting people ready to vote would make harsher ID laws easily acceptable, but once again it seems like the GOP wants to make it harder to get the ID, and harder to vote.

Although I'm a late comer to the thread... What's wrong with making it harder to vote? Do you really want someone who doesn't know a single name of one of their state representatives voting? Or who can't name a single branch of government?

You need a license to drive a car, why not pass a citizenship test to get a voting license (renewable every 10 years). It could come with an ID # that lets you vote electronically.


Because there will come a point when the "no morons" rule applies to you.
 
2014-04-30 08:30:31 AM  

Destructor: bikerific: It's just so simple and totally plausible.

And apparently foolproof, since there have never been any reports of someone showing up to vote and discovering that an impersonator has already voted using their name.

Here's your damned proof! ;-)

[viz.cwrl.utexas.edu image 500x335]


Much smarter than most Wisconsin voters...
 
2014-04-30 08:31:14 AM  

moothemagiccow: Destructor: FnkyTwn: Spending a few years getting people ready to vote would make harsher ID laws easily acceptable, but once again it seems like the GOP wants to make it harder to get the ID, and harder to vote.

Although I'm a late comer to the thread... What's wrong with making it harder to vote? Do you really want someone who doesn't know a single name of one of their state representatives voting? Or who can't name a single branch of government?

You need a license to drive a car, why not pass a citizenship test to get a voting license (renewable every 10 years). It could come with an ID # that lets you vote electronically.

Because there will come a point when the "no morons" rule applies to you.


plus this has been tried before...
 
2014-04-30 08:32:11 AM  

moothemagiccow: Destructor: FnkyTwn: Spending a few years getting people ready to vote would make harsher ID laws easily acceptable, but once again it seems like the GOP wants to make it harder to get the ID, and harder to vote.

Although I'm a late comer to the thread... What's wrong with making it harder to vote? Do you really want someone who doesn't know a single name of one of their state representatives voting? Or who can't name a single branch of government?

You need a license to drive a car, why not pass a citizenship test to get a voting license (renewable every 10 years). It could come with an ID # that lets you vote electronically.

Because there will come a point when the "no morons" rule applies to you.


Yeah, but people who propose those sorts of things never believe that's possible.
At any rate, you aren't going to repeal the voting rights act - that's about as politically feasible as repealing the second amendment.
Not gonna happen.
 
2014-04-30 08:33:10 AM  

moothemagiccow: Because there will come a point when the "no morons" rule applies to you.


Probably sooner than we think.

I'm okay with that. But you know, I'd actually try and study to pass it; trying not to be a moron. Democrat or Republican, it doesn't matter: a voter in full possession of what makes government government, would be a better voter.
 
2014-04-30 08:37:30 AM  

UNC_Samurai: fusillade762: DeltaPunch: floor: Mrtraveler01: BSABSVR: you are a puppet: Why is my ID required to prove my age to bartenders?

Why is my ID the best way to crush and snort lines?

Why is ID software no longer releasing Doom games?

Why do I need life insurance?

Why do I have to register before I can post on FARK?

Why does James Bond need a license to kill?

Why I laugh?

Why do liberals not complain about Paula Zahn's show on ID?

Why do Freudian liberals think black people can only possess ego and superego?

Why does Taco Bell think their Breakfast Taco was actually a good idea?

Why is getting drunk not a right?

Why do kids love the taste of Cinnamon Toast Crunch?

Why ask why?

[i.imgur.com image 660x501] Why are estuaries suddenly a trending topic?


Is Elvis alive?
 
2014-04-30 08:41:07 AM  

Destructor: moothemagiccow: Because there will come a point when the "no morons" rule applies to you.

Probably sooner than we think.

I'm okay with that. But you know, I'd actually try and study to pass it; trying not to be a moron. Democrat or Republican, it doesn't matter: a voter in full possession of what makes government government, would be a better voter.


And what happens when your Board of Elections gets taken over by fundamentalist Christians who think a sound knowledge of the Bible is a prerequisite for voting? Or feminists who think a knowledge of "womyn's" issues should be required? Or whoever?
When are people going to learn that you shouldn't extend powers to governemnts you like that you wouldn't want in the hands of one you don't like?
Anyway - again: unless you really think it's politically feasible to overturn the Voting Rights Act, what's the point of dicussing it? Or, is that, in fact, what you are proposing?
 
2014-04-30 08:41:22 AM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: If Republicans are so concerned about ensuring that we're able to accurately identify people for the purpose of exercising their constitutional rights, they should make some effort to ensure that everyone has a god damned ID.


At this point I'm ready for federal legislation requiring that everyone get either a bar code tattooed on their wrist or an RFID chip implanted.

The guys at the NSA reading that post probably fall asleep fapping to that thought


/hi NSA GUYS and GIRLS
 
2014-04-30 08:42:17 AM  

jso2897: Yeah, but people who propose those sorts of things never believe that's possible.


Actually, I think it would be kind of funny to watch a number of sad Republicans find out they flunked the test.

jso2897: At any rate, you aren't going to repeal the voting rights act - that's about as politically feasible as repealing the second amendment.
Not gonna happen.


See? This is why I might flunk the first time I take the test. I don't see any reason why the voting rights act would prohibit a national test for the privilege of voting. And even if it did, no problem: you're going to have to pass a law anyway. That would necessarily supersede and amend earlier laws.

But in general (*sigh*) you're right. People will get all "uppity" at the very notion of having to actually "know something" before they go and vote...
 
2014-04-30 08:46:33 AM  

jso2897: And what happens when your Board of Elections gets taken over by fundamentalist Christians who think a sound knowledge of the Bible is a prerequisite for voting? Or feminists who think a knowledge of "womyn's" issues should be required? Or whoever?


Then we will have found out what Lincoln wondered allowed in the Gettysburg address: "testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure." Times up.

jso2897: When are people going to learn that you shouldn't extend powers to governemnts you like that you wouldn't want in the hands of one you don't like?


What's wrong with not liking people who don't understand what the country's about from voting? Honestly, isn't that something everyone can get behind?

jso2897: Anyway - again: unless you really think it's politically feasible to overturn the Voting Rights Act, what's the point of dicussing it? Or, is that, in fact, what you are proposing?


What part of the voting rights act would have to be overturned?
 
2014-04-30 08:47:13 AM  

Destructor: jso2897: Yeah, but people who propose those sorts of things never believe that's possible.

Actually, I think it would be kind of funny to watch a number of sad Republicans find out they flunked the test.

jso2897: At any rate, you aren't going to repeal the voting rights act - that's about as politically feasible as repealing the second amendment.
Not gonna happen.

See? This is why I might flunk the first time I take the test. I don't see any reason why the voting rights act would prohibit a national test for the privilege of voting. And even if it did, no problem: you're going to have to pass a law anyway. That would necessarily supersede and amend earlier laws.

But in general (*sigh*) you're right. People will get all "uppity" at the very notion of having to actually "know something" before they go and vote...


The real problem is: Who get's to decide? It's all well and good to say that some generic, imaginary "citizenship test" would be a good thing. But in the real world, it would have to be an ACTUAL, CONCRETE test. Created by human beings - and, hence biased.
Now, we don't necessarily know who it would be biased for, or against - but simple logic informs that it could not NOT be biased. They always have been in the past. That's why the Voting Rights Act does, in fact, ban them.
There's the rub - who gets to write the test?
 
DGS [TotalFark]
2014-04-30 08:49:02 AM  

Delay: meat0918: Wow.  Another win.

Temporarily, don't relax. These farkers are vigilant and wait to strike.
[themoderatevoice.com image 280x294]


Ok, I laughed.
 
2014-04-30 08:49:12 AM  

Destructor: What part of the voting rights act would have to be overturned?


All of it. "Citizenship Tests" were attempted in the Jimcrow South. Courts threw them out.
This is old, settled law.
 
2014-04-30 08:51:59 AM  

jso2897: The real problem is: Who get's to decide? It's all well and good to say that some generic, imaginary "citizenship test" would be a good thing. But in the real world, it would have to be an ACTUAL, CONCRETE test. Created by human beings - and, hence biased.


I was thinking something along the lines of the current citizenship test. Which is sort of interesting, because that would mean that immigrants who passed it would also be issued a voting ID card.

jso2897: There's the rub - who gets to write the test?


That would be a constant worry and probably the second greatest problem to overcome (first one is gaining popularity to actually be considered). I don't know; but that doesn't mean it's impossible. Just very difficult. Blue ribbon bipartisan commission? With emphasis on the blue ribbon? BLUE... RIBBON...

jso2897: That's why the Voting Rights Act does, in fact, ban them.


If that's the case, it would just have to be "adjusted" . Third biggest hurtle. I admit it, I'm dreaming big.
 
2014-04-30 08:57:18 AM  

jso2897: All of it. "Citizenship Tests" were attempted in the Jimcrow South. Courts threw them out.
This is old, settled law.


All of those tests were deliberate attempts to segregate based on color (both repulsive and disgusting). I couldn't google anything specifically regarding a citizenship test, but literacy was easy to find. Clearly, that could NOT be made a barrier. But that would fall under the heading of "disability", all of which would have to be accommodated to make this sort of thing legit.
 
2014-04-30 08:58:12 AM  

Destructor: jso2897: The real problem is: Who get's to decide? It's all well and good to say that some generic, imaginary "citizenship test" would be a good thing. But in the real world, it would have to be an ACTUAL, CONCRETE test. Created by human beings - and, hence biased.

I was thinking something along the lines of the current citizenship test. Which is sort of interesting, because that would mean that immigrants who passed it would also be issued a voting ID card.

jso2897: There's the rub - who gets to write the test?

That would be a constant worry and probably the second greatest problem to overcome (first one is gaining popularity to actually be considered). I don't know; but that doesn't mean it's impossible. Just very difficult. Blue ribbon bipartisan commission? With emphasis on the blue ribbon? BLUE... RIBBON...

jso2897: That's why the Voting Rights Act does, in fact, ban them.

If that's the case, it would just have to be "adjusted" . Third biggest hurtle. I admit it, I'm dreaming big.


Good.
As long as you understand that your views have no context in the real world, you won't give yourself false expectations.
Those of us who insist that all citizens have the opportunity to vote are not going to quit, or forget, or get bored, or go away. You have always lost this fight, and will always lose it.
And I say that without the least trace of hostility - I merely state a fact. I respect your opinion, but I think it is wrong, and won't ever concede the issue.
I hope you have a great day.
 
2014-04-30 09:11:48 AM  

jso2897: Good.
As long as you understand that your views have no context in the real world, you won't give yourself false expectations.
Those of us who insist that all citizens have the opportunity to vote are not going to quit, or forget, or get bored, or go away. You have always lost this fight, and will always lose it.
And I say that without the least trace of hostility - I merely state a fact. I respect your opinion, but I think it is wrong, and won't ever concede the issue.
I hope you have a great day.


Well, thank you for allowing me to vet one of my crazier ideas to the general public to see what kind of reaction it would get. The good news: It wasn't openly hostile, so there is a glint of hope. But, clearly, it is a long shot.
 
2014-04-30 09:14:15 AM  

Destructor: FnkyTwn: Spending a few years getting people ready to vote would make harsher ID laws easily acceptable, but once again it seems like the GOP wants to make it harder to get the ID, and harder to vote.

Although I'm a late comer to the thread... What's wrong with making it harder to vote? Do you really want someone who doesn't know a single name of one of their state representatives voting? Or who can't name a single branch of government?

You need a license to drive a car, why not pass a citizenship test to get a voting license (renewable every 10 years). It could come with an ID # that lets you vote electronically.


I understand your point, but the 'low information' voter thing cuts both ways. Sure, there's lots of people who are overall ignorant of who's on a ballot, but they are likely to know which party tends to vote in their interest. And simply 'knowing' who's on the ballot is a pretty low bar considering how much money outside groups are spending on local elections.

When some PAC or lobbying group spends millions on advertising in a state, not because it helps the state, but because it helps their interests in Washington, that's not really a "well informed" voter either, it's just somebody who believes what they see and hear in a commercial. So my argument is that most people are 'low information' voters overall, and probably only focus on specific issues that effect them directly, but they understand that voting more for one party probably helps them with their specific issues. Gerrymandering factors heavily into this issue too then.

It could be easily argued that Fox News viewers are the lowest information voters out there, because there are tons of lower and middle income American's who directly vote against their best interests in favor of what they're being spoon fed as "news".

cdn.crooksandliars.com
 
2014-04-30 09:19:13 AM  

Mrtraveler01: Either we allow Voter ID and issue National ID cards free of charge or we don't have any Voter ID at all. That's my view on the whole thing. Seems like a sensible one to me.


it has nothing to do with voting but this seems like it would make sense to me. skip birth certificates, ss cards, drivers licenses, passports and all that non sense. issue a passport style book/card at birth. have it get renewed every 5 years or something. when you start driving you can get a state dmv stamp on it. want to travel? it doubles as your passport. hell have a customs page in it for things like a stamp denoting you are a student of a university. you could get rid of like a dozen things if they did it right. make it free. then in 18 years when everyone should already have this we can talk about using it to vote.
 
2014-04-30 09:43:04 AM  
The lesson learned: Quickly ram through a voter ID law right before the election, so no challenge can be brought against it in time.

The GOP plan always boils down to "do illegal stuff until someone stops you".
 
2014-04-30 09:44:13 AM  

Destructor: FnkyTwn: Spending a few years getting people ready to vote would make harsher ID laws easily acceptable, but once again it seems like the GOP wants to make it harder to get the ID, and harder to vote.

Although I'm a late comer to the thread... What's wrong with making it harder to vote? Do you really want someone who doesn't know a single name of one of their state representatives voting? Or who can't name a single branch of government?

You need a license to drive a car, why not pass a citizenship test to get a voting license (renewable every 10 years). It could come with an ID # that lets you vote electronically.


"What's wrong with making it harder to vote?" -- The GOP
 
2014-04-30 09:45:29 AM  

FnkyTwn: I understand your point, but the 'low information' voter thing cuts both ways. Sure, there's lots of people who are overall ignorant of who's on a ballot, but they are likely to know which party tends to vote in their interest. And simply 'knowing' who's on the ballot is a pretty low bar considering how much money outside groups are spending on local elections.


The only real positive affect I see doing something like this, is to make the entire matter of voting weightier. Someone who goes through all the trouble of voting is necessarily likely to spend more time figuring out who to vote for. That's the kind of person you want to vote. Not someone easily swayed by some glitzy ad either scaring them or promising them something. I want voters to be policy wonks. Smart people who know the issues and consequences. (Doesn't everyone?)

jso2897 is right, it's incredibly unlikely to ever happen. At least now. And I don't know how you can sell something like this. It would take a ton of political capital by people who have nothing to gain by making it happen.

FnkyTwn: It could be easily argued that Fox News viewers are the lowest information voters out there


And it would be hilarious to see them discover that.

NickelP: then in 18 years when everyone should already have this we can talk about using it to vote.


Oh, and no age discrimination. Anyone of any age who could pass the citizenship test would get a voter id card.
 
2014-04-30 09:49:56 AM  

NickelP: Mrtraveler01: Either we allow Voter ID and issue National ID cards free of charge or we don't have any Voter ID at all. That's my view on the whole thing. Seems like a sensible one to me.

it has nothing to do with voting but this seems like it would make sense to me. skip birth certificates, ss cards, drivers licenses, passports and all that non sense. issue a passport style book/card at birth. have it get renewed every 5 years or something. when you start driving you can get a state dmv stamp on it. want to travel? it doubles as your passport. hell have a customs page in it for things like a stamp denoting you are a student of a university. you could get rid of like a dozen things if they did it right. make it free. then in 18 years when everyone should already have this we can talk about using it to vote.


-Forbes Disagrees with a National ID (wants current system improved)
-The Washington Post Supports National ID
-The ACLU Disagrees with a National ID (Nazis and it's easy to get fake IDs)

ACLU list of reasons against National ID:
Reason #1: A national ID card system would not solve the problem that is inspiring it.
Reason #2: An ID card system will lead to a slippery slope of surveillance and monitoring of citizens.
Reason #3: A national ID card system would require creation of a database of all Americans
Reason #4: ID cards would function as "internal passports" that monitor citizens' movements
Reason #5: ID cards would foster new forms of discrimination and harassment

Alan Dershowitz NYT opinion quote: "...there is the question of the right to anonymity. I don't believe we can afford to recognize such a right in this age of terrorism. No such right is hinted at in the Constitution. And though the Supreme Court has identified a right to privacy, privacy and anonymity are not the same."
 
2014-04-30 09:53:19 AM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: "What's wrong with making it harder to vote?" -- The GOP


First, I'll complete that thought you started, "What's wrong with making it harder for Democrats to vote?"--The GOP.

Well, that is wrong.

But in general, what's wrong with making it harder to vote when any timid idiot easily swayed by a TV ad can cast a ballot? Is that how you want to leave the fate of the country? How's it working out so far?

I don't want to make it a herculean effort to vote, but it should require a little sacrifice and demonstrable knowledge that you do, in fact, know what you're voting for.
 
2014-04-30 09:59:03 AM  

KIA: Why is my ID used to force me to pay taxes?

Why is my ID required to open a bank account?


you don't need an ID for either one of those.  Don't believe me about the bank account?  Go to your bank's website and look.
 
2014-04-30 10:00:03 AM  

Destructor: LouDobbsAwaaaay: "What's wrong with making it harder to vote?" -- The GOP

First, I'll complete that thought you started, "What's wrong with making it harder for Democrats to vote?"--The GOP.

Well, that is wrong.

But in general, what's wrong with making it harder to vote when any timid idiot easily swayed by a TV ad can cast a ballot? Is that how you want to leave the fate of the country? How's it working out so far?

I don't want to make it a herculean effort to vote, but it should require a little sacrifice and demonstrable knowledge that you do, in fact, know what you're voting for.


Military members stationed overseas get Absentee Ballots and they don't get a lot of campaign ads. Traditionally people in the military and their family understand that Republicans are very pro-defense/pro-military, and that Democrats are not, so traditionally, military members and their family can be counted on to vote Republican because it's in their best interests as a "union".

Why are you trying to deny the men and women who serve this country their right to vote?
 
2014-04-30 10:01:44 AM  

Destructor: I don't want to make it a herculean effort to vote, but it should require a little sacrifice and demonstrable knowledge that you do, in fact, know what you're voting for.


Um no. It would be nice but the only thing I would say they should remove is the straight ticket option.  You should have to physically select each person you want.
 
2014-04-30 10:01:46 AM  
The Ohio GOP can't even get the voter fraud myth correct. They also cut early voting and mail in ballots. It's so painfully obvious what these sleazebags are trying to pull that everybody, the right included, should say something. But they're so goddamn seized with "stick it to the libs" that they refuse to think about what this means for politics as a whole.
 
2014-04-30 10:04:53 AM  
What amuses me is the overlap between people screaming the loudest about imaginary voter fraud and the people who wouldn't accept the President of the United States of America's birth certificate even if it were notarized by God. You know... Freep.

It's almost like they have an agenda, and will biatch and moan regardless until they get what they want.
 
2014-04-30 10:09:07 AM  

maxheck: What amuses me is the overlap between people screaming the loudest about imaginary voter fraud and the people who wouldn't accept the President of the United States of America's birth certificate even if it were notarized by God. You know... Freep.

It's almost like they have an agenda, and will biatch and moan regardless until even after they get 98% of what they want.


FTFM
 
2014-04-30 10:11:57 AM  
I'll be out of the country for all of November, so I'll have to cast my constitutionally guaranteed (free, white and over 21) ballot through either early or absentee voting. I'm wondering if this will be a problem...

Oh wait. No I'm not. I live in Maryland, a sane state with sane politicians. Why you people let this shiat happen is beyond me.
 
2014-04-30 10:14:04 AM  
Hudson county is really good an "pre-stuffing" the ballot box

Subby has no idea what that really means

Voter ID is something that we need. And we need it ASAP!
 
2014-04-30 10:14:40 AM  

gingerjet: KIA: Why is my ID used to force me to pay taxes?

Why is my ID required to open a bank account?

Why do I need an ID / license to drive?

Why do I need proof of insurance?

Why do I have to register for W-9s at work?

Why do people need licenses to do particular jobs?

Papers please.


http://store.steampowered.com/app/239030/
 
2014-04-30 10:17:07 AM  

Mrtraveler01: Or we could do what every other country does and have an ID card issued free of charge on the national level.

But that would make too much sense.


Under the US constitution, details on implementing how voting occurs happen by the states, not the Federal government.  Obviously, state and Federal courts as well as state and Federal laws dictate what states can and can not do, but there still is a lot of leeway as to how the specifics of voting are carried out.
 
2014-04-30 10:19:23 AM  
If voter ID stops dead people from voting, I am all for it
 
2014-04-30 10:24:11 AM  

Flashlight: The next thing to go down should be the requirement to show ID when buying a gun from a dealer. Or should the poor and minorities not be allowed to defend themselves? If you believe people should be required to provide ID to buy a firearm how do you justify your classism and racism?


Because, as the judge ruled if you'd bothered to read TFA voter fraud is a non-problem , the state could point to zero cases of it happening in recent memory,  therefore the "compelling state interest" in preventing voter fraud was far too small to justify the infringement on people's right to vote.

Now felons and other ineligible people attempting to Purchase guns DOES happen, and that state has a very large compelling interest in protecting its citizenry from harm done by people deemed too dangerous to own a weapon.  Moreover, the scenario in which you would be too poor to afford an ID but had the resources to spend $500 on a gun is highly unlikely.  Making the infringement on this right vanishingly small, while the state's compelling interest high, making it essentially the reverse of this situaion
 
2014-04-30 10:26:16 AM  

dantheman195: If voter ID stops dead people from voting, I am all for it


But what is stopping zombies from applying for voter IDs?
 
2014-04-30 10:29:00 AM  

xria: Triple Oak: KIA: Triple Oak: The process of obtaining a gun is not a constitutional right.

Fascinating.  So, your right to free speech is conditional on not having your mouth glued shut?

Speech comes in more forms than just the words that come from your mouth. Stop being obtuse or show me where the Constitution says your right to vote is dependent on having an ID.

It doesn't have to - voting rights can be curtailed without being unconstitutional, and Voter ID laws could be valid, or other ways of regulating voting to ensure votes cast could be legitimate. However to be constitutional there would have to be a compelling government interest to have the law (i.e. proof of significant amounts of voter fraud) and the law would have to be the narrowest feasible way of fixing it (which could be debatable even if evidence of voter fraud in large numbers was found).


You're right in that it doesn't have to... but this exact situation will happen if they can't. A judge will see the proposed "solution", find no reasonable evidence to support it, and throw it away. And that's the Voter ID debate problem: everyone understands that fraud is a bad thing, but there's no solutions related to what's being offered that doesn't disenfranchise way, way more people than prevent fraud.

I find it fascinating that Voter ID and marriage equality laws that seek to take away those rights are being shot down left and right. Combine that with Congress' obstruction and constant ACA-related bill votes, and you can clearly see a certain group spinning their tires and failing to keep all these rights-denying laws.
 
2014-04-30 10:35:07 AM  

dantheman195: If voter ID stops dead people from voting, I am all for it


It won't, the lazy states need to clean up their ledgers to stop dead people from voting. Seems like a much simpler fix.
 
2014-04-30 10:39:08 AM  
dantheman195:

Hudson county is really good an "pre-stuffing" the ballot box

Subby has no idea what that really means

Voter ID is something that we need. And we need it ASAP!


Care to provide any details to your hyperventilating?
 
Bf+
2014-04-30 10:43:31 AM  

UNC_Samurai: fusillade762: DeltaPunch: floor: Mrtraveler01: BSABSVR: you are a puppet: Why is my ID required to prove my age to bartenders?

Why is my ID the best way to crush and snort lines?

Why is ID software no longer releasing Doom games?

Why do I need life insurance?

Why do I have to register before I can post on FARK?

Why does James Bond need a license to kill?

Why I laugh?

Why do liberals not complain about Paula Zahn's show on ID?

Why do Freudian liberals think black people can only possess ego and superego?

Why does Taco Bell think their Breakfast Taco was actually a good idea?

Why is getting drunk not a right?

Why do kids love the taste of Cinnamon Toast Crunch?

Why ask why?

[i.imgur.com image 660x501] Why are estuaries suddenly a trending topic?


Why does God let bad things happen to good people?
 
2014-04-30 10:47:01 AM  

JosephFinn: Flashlight: The next thing to go down should be the requirement to show ID when buying a gun from a dealer.

Buying a gun is not a constitutional right, unlike voting.


2/10
 
2014-04-30 10:47:39 AM  

Bf+: UNC_Samurai: fusillade762: DeltaPunch: floor: Mrtraveler01: BSABSVR: you are a puppet: Why is my ID required to prove my age to bartenders?

Why is my ID the best way to crush and snort lines?

Why is ID software no longer releasing Doom games?

Why do I need life insurance?

Why do I have to register before I can post on FARK?

Why does James Bond need a license to kill?

Why I laugh?

Why do liberals not complain about Paula Zahn's show on ID?

Why do Freudian liberals think black people can only possess ego and superego?

Why does Taco Bell think their Breakfast Taco was actually a good idea?

Why is getting drunk not a right?

Why do kids love the taste of Cinnamon Toast Crunch?

Why ask why?

[i.imgur.com image 660x501] Why are estuaries suddenly a trending topic?

Why does God let bad things happen to good people?


4.bp.blogspot.com
 
Bf+
2014-04-30 10:49:33 AM  
The best part?  Since the law was found unconstitutional in a state court, the state would have to reverse both the federal and state decisions in order to put the voting restrictions back in place before this fall's election - even if the (extraordinarily partisan) Wisconsin Supreme Court finds the law complies with the state constitution, the Walker crowd would also have to win in a federal appellate court.
 
2014-04-30 10:50:35 AM  

UNC_Samurai: Bf+: UNC_Samurai: fusillade762: DeltaPunch: floor: Mrtraveler01: BSABSVR: you are a puppet: Why is my ID required to prove my age to bartenders?

Why is my ID the best way to crush and snort lines?

Why is ID software no longer releasing Doom games?

Why do I need life insurance?

Why do I have to register before I can post on FARK?

Why does James Bond need a license to kill?

Why I laugh?

Why do liberals not complain about Paula Zahn's show on ID?

Why do Freudian liberals think black people can only possess ego and superego?

Why does Taco Bell think their Breakfast Taco was actually a good idea?

Why is getting drunk not a right?

Why do kids love the taste of Cinnamon Toast Crunch?

Why ask why?

[i.imgur.com image 660x501] Why are estuaries suddenly a trending topic?

Why does God let bad things happen to good people?

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 300x225]


Can somebody please tell me what "Diddy wah diddy" means?"

/ if you don't know by now, don't ask.
 
Bf+
2014-04-30 10:51:11 AM  

UNC_Samurai: Bf+: UNC_Samurai: fusillade762: DeltaPunch: floor: Mrtraveler01: BSABSVR: you are a puppet:

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 300x225]


Why many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop?
 
2014-04-30 11:18:20 AM  

Nemosomen: JosephFinn: Flashlight: The next thing to go down should be the requirement to show ID when buying a gun from a dealer.

Buying a gun is not a constitutional right, unlike voting.

2/10


2/10 for the truth? Interesting scale you got there. Owning a gun (well-armed militia) is a Constitutional right just like voting is, buying a gun is not. That discussion was earlier in the thread.
 
2014-04-30 11:29:57 AM  

Three Crooked Squirrels: However, I disagree about Roberts. Seems to me he wants a legacy as much as anything else. Also seems to me that he wants the swing role Kennedy once had. A true swing justice wields a lot of power.


Roberts is willing to throw the critics a bone once in a while so long as he is able to push through his pro-corporate agenda (which his ObamaCare ruling was part of).  He successfully gutted the Voting Rights Act, so he could potentially draw the line there.  I wouldn't hold my breath though.
 
2014-04-30 11:39:20 AM  

Bf+: UNC_Samurai: Bf+: UNC_Samurai: fusillade762: DeltaPunch: floor: Mrtraveler01: BSABSVR: you are a puppet:

[4.bp.blogspot.com image 300x225]

Why many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop?


I used to date a girl who's nickname was "Tootsie." It didn't take many licks before the pop, I'm just saying.
 
2014-04-30 12:03:25 PM  

namatad: fusillade762: I'm sure SCOTUS will take care of that eventually.

alas, it will be QUITE interesting to watch how SCOTUS decides this.
Because the logic of this decision is irrefutable, you are harming a MUCH larger number of citizens than you are preventing from committing fraud.

the net effect of the law is to clearly do harm, not prevent harm


I'm gonna say they'll take a pass on it.
 
2014-04-30 12:08:29 PM  

eagles95: The guys at the NSA reading that post probably fall asleep fapping to that thought


The NSA doesn't need you to be tagged. They already know where you work, what you drive, what your buying habits are, your marital status, whether you have kids, where you live, and the metadata from your phone. With that information they could probably predict just about everything down to the frequency and consistency of your bowel movements.
 
2014-04-30 12:11:55 PM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: With that information they could probably predict just about everything down to the frequency and consistency of your bowel movements


Yeah it wouldn't be hard just look at how often you play games on the phone and you could probably get a pretty darn good idea when people are pooping.
 
2014-04-30 01:06:48 PM  

Destructor: LouDobbsAwaaaay: "What's wrong with making it harder to vote?" -- The GOP

First, I'll complete that thought you started, "What's wrong with making it harder for Democrats to vote?"--The GOP.

Well, that is wrong.

But in general, what's wrong with making it harder to vote when any timid idiot easily swayed by a TV ad can cast a ballot? Is that how you want to leave the fate of the country? How's it working out so far?

I don't want to make it a herculean effort to vote, but it should require a little sacrifice and demonstrable knowledge that you do, in fact, know what you're voting for.


I can guarantee you that the person who is standing in line for an hour to vote, cares about the issues and candidates. When I get to the polling place at ten to six in the morning and there are fifty people in line ahead of me. They aren't there because they decided to vote on a whim. In the small town I grew up in you might be able to stop in and vote just because you happened to be in the neighborhood, but in the city, where I now live, it is a real investment of time and energy. There the people who don't care are already not voting.

I'm liberal and I truly believe that a citizenship test would prevent more conservative votes than liberal votes. Yet I would never support a requirement that strips the fundamental right of voting from any citizen.
 
2014-04-30 01:24:02 PM  
Too bad our elections are still controlled by the machines whose companies are run by partisan fatcats
 
2014-04-30 02:19:16 PM  

paganj: I can guarantee you that the person who is standing in line for an hour to vote, cares about the issues and candidates. When I get to the polling place at ten to six in the morning and there are fifty people in line ahead of me.


Okay, this is the very first thing that needs to get fixed. Voter ID to the rescue? Imagine (if you will) that you could pre-fill out a ballot and then drop it off with a judge and just leave after showing your ID.

paganj: In the small town I grew up in you might be able to stop in and vote just because you happened to be in the neighborhood


This is my sole experience with the process. As long as I've been voting (mid 80s), I've never had to wait more than 5 minutes.

paganj: 'm liberal and I truly believe that a citizenship test would prevent more conservative votes than liberal votes.


I believe (unfortunately) you might be right. I tend to be conservative.

paganj: Yet I would never support a requirement that strips the fundamental right of voting from any citizen.


And on the face of it, it would seem that I would.

However, bare in mind that the Constitution, prior to being amended, left the rights of voting to the states (where by today's standards, it was a disaster... in some places, only property owners could vote, etc). Today, there are about 4 amendments (I think) that affect voting rights.

Even now, suffrage is not universal. Those underage can't vote (some of those kids I'd trust with my life; but only a minority), and in some states felons (I had to look it up to make sure I wasn't misremembering) can't vote. I'm not sure we should change that (but I am sure some punishments shouldn't be felonies).
 
2014-04-30 04:33:40 PM  
If the SCOTUS over turns this it will rank with Dread Scott as one of their worst rulings ever.
 
2014-04-30 05:41:49 PM  

KIA: Why is my ID used to force me to pay taxes?

Why is my ID required to open a bank account?

Why do I need an ID / license to drive?

Why do I need proof of insurance?

Why do I have to register for W-9s at work?

Why do people need licenses to do particular jobs?


and which of these is a constitutionally protected right?
 
2014-04-30 05:45:12 PM  

Robin Hoodie: Photo IDs are free in Wisconsin, not having one just seems weird.

also the 7th circuit will probably overturn Adelman for the thousandth time


But the documentation to obtain them is not, so it is still a poll tax.
 
2014-04-30 10:59:38 PM  

Destructor: Kittypie070: Cats shoot people who think they can take away cat's inalienable right to vote.

/rubber band guns

[cats excercising inalienable rights by voting.jpg]

This is how Kennedy won the 1960 election people.

Read a damn history book.


i.imgur.com
 
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