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(Gothamist)   Hey New Yorkers - tired of those pretentious hipster douchebags "vaping" at the next table? Well, starting today they'll be ostracized to the sidewalk outside with all the other smokers   (gothamist.com) divider line 244
    More: Interesting, New York City, Museum of Sex, tables, sidewalks  
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4479 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Apr 2014 at 5:49 PM (43 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



244 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-04-29 10:09:39 PM  
Guest:
The vap that comes from e-cigarettes is water vapor with a bit of glycol and many don't contain nicotine.

Really? Then what's the point? Inhaling candy-flavored fog seems a really silly thing for an adult to do.
 
2014-04-29 10:18:52 PM  

Carousel Beast: PC LOAD LETTER: cman: When you are at war you cannot let your enemy have any sort of win

That is why there is a movement against ecigs. Anti-tobacco people can't let smokers get a leg up no matter what the circumstance is.

Nah, it just smells like crap and pisses off people around them. I was all for e-cigs until a friend got in our car and "lit" one up. We told him to stop in 20 seconds. I guess that's better than an actual cig, since we would have thrown him out of the car at speed.

Make your habit not piss off everyone around you and fark up our breathing, and you can do whatever the hell you want.

Water valor posses you off?

Damn, you must be miserable when it rains.


It smells. Badly. Not as bad as cig smoke, but it has a nasty odor. No thanks. I don't need someone's lung nicotine vapor in my lungs. You must be miserable when you smell clean air.
 
2014-04-29 10:31:54 PM  

WTFDYW: LazyMedia: Aigoo: The My Little Pony Killer: robodog: Vaping does NOTHING to harm anyone

Citations, thanks.

/you won't be able to find any because there haven't been any studies done
//derp and double derp on you!

Incorrect. Igor Burstyn, Drexel University. Submitted for peer review: http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2458/14/18/

Shows that e-cigs/vaping poses less risk to public health via "secondhand vaping" than inhaling aerosol air freshener.

Oh, FFS, read your farking links. That study says that e-cigs pose no increased risk of exposure to "contaminants" like formaldehyde. It says nothing about the risk of exposure to THE ACTUAL ACTIVE INGREDIENT in nicotine vaping, which is nicotine, and which causes atherosclerosis regardless of how it's administered.

Current state of knowledge about chemistry of liquids and aerosols associated with electronic cigarettes indicates that there is no evidence that vaping produces inhalable exposures to contaminants of the aerosol that would warrant health concerns by the standards that are used to ensure safety of workplaces.  However, the aerosol generated during vaping as a whole (contaminants  plus declared ingredients) creates personal exposures that would justify surveillance of health among exposed persons in conjunction with investigation of means to keep any adverse health effects as low as reasonably achievable.

I know who you are. Knock it off. You aren't good at using your alts. You have the same MO as your other alt.

In other words, fark off and EABOD.


Well shiat, I was just gonna ignore him/her. You went right to "fark off." Damn.

Let me help cranky alt-person: my roommate is severely asthmatic and allergic to smoke to the point that when I used to smoke actual cigarettes, I would have to change my clothes when I came in the house because it would trigger her asthma and make her sick as hell. A little over a year ago, I switched to e-cigs because she asked me to. I can use an e-cig (mine's a VAMO V3 with a Kanger Protank and juice from a local shop that has four ingredients that I know exactly what the ingredients are) in the house or in her car with the windows rolled up (note: I usually do not use it in the car unless we're on a long trip of over three hours out of common courtesy), and it doesn't bother her at all.

Further, my chest x-ray (I get one annually because I won the genetic jackpot for cancer and heart disease) shows dramatic improvement after one year of using an e-cig versus smoknig two packs a day for over 25 years. My doctor, who has thoroughly researched e-cigs via professional publications, is quite happy with my decision to go to e-cigs.

Nothing personal to those who dislike e-cigs, but I'll trust my doctor's fully informed and well-researched opinion on the matter over yours. Feel free to continue your outlandish hatred over something that has zero impact on you (except to potentially lower your healthcare costs under the Affordable Care Act and via your taxes, given that many veterans and active duty personnel are now going to vaping), but I'd think you'd be better off spending your energies on things that do affect you: strong perfumes, AXE body spray, drunk driving, NSA surveillance, net neutrality, the economy...and any number of actual important issues.
 
2014-04-29 10:50:12 PM  

Rik01: It contains propylene glycol -- what's in anti-freeze and what is also in a surprising amount of the sweetened drinks and snacks you eat, even though knocking back a cup of anti-freeze will kill you.


What's in *some kinds* of antifreeze - most antifreeze that you find contains ethylene glycol.
 
2014-04-29 10:57:51 PM  

LazyMedia: heart attacks linked to smoking (mainly caused by chronic nicotine use) kills about 100,000.


Now go back to the document you linked, and show us specifically where you get "mainly caused by chronic nicotine use".  The word "nicotine" appears exactly once:

In addition, the nicotine in smokeless tobacco may increase the risk for sudden death from a condition where the heart does not beat properly (ventricular arrhythmias)

A ventricular arrhythmia is NOT the same thing as a heart attack, and note the qualified statement "may increase".  Also note that just about any stimulant, like caffeine, has the potential to produce the same effect.
 
2014-04-29 10:59:25 PM  

Hoboclown: Zeromyhero: Drinkers = awesome
Smokers = whaaaaaambulance

Makes perfect sense.

I don't know what bars you hang out at but it's usually not common for drinkers to vomit back out their drinks into other peoples' mouths and nostrils.


You haven't been in some of the biker bars I have then.  There was this place in Tampico, WA I was at one time where this chick...

Know what?  Never mind.  Some things just are best left in the past.
 
2014-04-29 11:05:16 PM  

LazyMedia: Fluid: jbc: Why the hell do you use e-cigs anyway? They don't make you any less of a loser than real smokers; they just make you a battery-powered loser.

Hey, at least it makes you a loser without lung cancer.

Yeah, but if you're vaping nicotine, you still have the same increased risk of heart attack and stroke. Wouldn't want to lose that!


Meh. You're dying too. Pick your poison. Alzheimers. Parkinsons...fractured hip. Urinary tract infection..whatever. Your condescending ass is toast too. Guaranteed. A few more years of catheters in a nursing home. Enjoy!
 
2014-04-29 11:34:10 PM  
I was ok with e-cigs until they came up with the word "vaping".  Now it's just douchebags sucking on plastic dicks.
 
2014-04-29 11:37:16 PM  

Zeromyhero: Drinkers = awesome
Smokers = whaaaaaambulance

Makes perfect sense.

Oh, also legalize weed because reasons.  Smoking other stuff is totally awesome.


i.walmartimages.com
 
2014-04-29 11:40:56 PM  

Hoboclown: Zeromyhero: Drinkers = awesome
Smokers = whaaaaaambulance

Makes perfect sense.

I don't know what bars you hang out at but it's usually not common for drinkers to vomit back out their drinks into other peoples' mouths and nostrils.


It's not?  I must be going to the wrong places.
 
2014-04-29 11:45:07 PM  

LazyMedia: people who start in college are a special kind of stupid.


Most college kids are still kids. Legally, they're adults, but a lot of them still act like teenagers. It takes a few years of *actual* adult life for them to figure the "responsibility/maturity" thing out.
 
2014-04-30 12:09:32 AM  

uber humper: just change the formula so that it puts out less "smoke" (propylene glycol is only used for the smoke effect) and use a device that looks nothing like a cigarette -- no one would be the wiser


Exactly. Mix your own juice and no one will ever know.

Buying juice is a crap shoot. Buy everything you need and flavors if you want them - mix to your own taste and strength. Done.
 
kab
2014-04-30 12:09:57 AM  

BSABSVR: Why is vaping in quotes?


Because it's a retarded catch phrase.

oh_please: This is about people getting a boner from telling others what not to do. Nothing more.


Yep, that's NY for you.
 
2014-04-30 12:11:01 AM  

Elegy: All of which is beside the point. Ecigs don't have to be 100% safe. They only have to be safer than cigarettes for everyone to see a health benefit.


Or people could just stop smoking, then they would see even more of a health benefit.
 
2014-04-30 12:15:09 AM  

kab: Yep, that's NY for you.


Jealous.
 
2014-04-30 12:39:36 AM  

stpauler: I don't hang out with smokers or "vapers", but I walked by a person sneaking a vape in a mall last week. Then I walked by a woman who had just left the Clinique counter. Both offended my nose but nothing I didn't quickly get over.


...and do you have to sit around them for 8+ hours a day, wondering what that shiat they're doing is doing to you?

Some people do.

Plus, you'd have to be an utter moron to think "water vapor" is all they're giving off. Let me clue you in anybody who never got past 2nd grade, WATER VAPOR DOESN'T SMELL, NOR DOES IT AFFECT YOUR NERVOUS SYSTEM.

This also in, water is wet, the sky is blue, and Santa isn't real.
 
2014-04-30 02:45:48 AM  

Cheesehead_Dave: Brick-House: But is it Vape Vape?

You said "vape" twice.


Its not Vape, its non-consensual mist.
 
2014-04-30 03:52:44 AM  

Hoboclown: Zeromyhero: Drinkers = awesome
Smokers = whaaaaaambulance

Makes perfect sense.

I don't know what bars you hang out at but it's usually not common for drinkers to vomit back out their drinks into other peoples' mouths and nostrils.


Just 'vomit'.

Not 'vomit back out'.

And definitely not 'vomit back out their drinks'.
 
2014-04-30 04:15:00 AM  
Came into this thread thinking "vaping" was clever new word for vapid conversation. Disappointed.

Pretty sure the truck tailpipe in my car window at red light today took more years off my life than grape vapours in public places.

Also, can we ban people worth coughs and colds In public please?
 
2014-04-30 05:21:23 AM  

zarker: If water vapor makes you nauseous you've got bigger problems


It's not just water vapor. With few exceptions, it has lots of other chemicals, including the nicotine that many of us struggled to break our addiction to. Former smokers have a legitimate reason not to want exposure to it.

/ If it's just water, then why can't you refill it at the sink?
 
2014-04-30 05:32:15 AM  

KawhostaYucwy: zarker: If water vapor makes you nauseous you've got bigger problems

It's not just water vapor. With few exceptions, it has lots of other chemicals, including the nicotine that many of us struggled to break our addiction to. Former smokers have a legitimate reason not to want exposure to it.

/ If it's just water, then why can't you refill it at the sink?


You'll probably absorb more nicotine picking up a discarded cigarette butt than shotgunning the exhalation from an e-smoker's mouth.
 
2014-04-30 05:41:42 AM  

MagSeven: KawhostaYucwy: zarker: If water vapor makes you nauseous you've got bigger problems

It's not just water vapor. With few exceptions, it has lots of other chemicals, including the nicotine that many of us struggled to break our addiction to. Former smokers have a legitimate reason not to want exposure to it.

/ If it's just water, then why can't you refill it at the sink?

You'll probably absorb more nicotine picking up a discarded cigarette butt than shotgunning the exhalation from an e-smoker's mouth.


There might be more nicotine in a discarded cigarette butt than in e-cig vapor, but a funny thing about lungs... they're designed to absorb. Skin is not. It's a barrier. The lungs absorb a lot more from the environment than skin because that's what they're designed for. Besides, there have been zero studies on the effects of second hand vapor from e-cigs on former smokers. I don't know about other former smokers, but I don't want to be the guinea pig. I'll wait until such studies have been performed before dropping my guard.
 
2014-04-30 05:44:02 AM  

KawhostaYucwy: MagSeven: KawhostaYucwy: zarker: If water vapor makes you nauseous you've got bigger problems

It's not just water vapor. With few exceptions, it has lots of other chemicals, including the nicotine that many of us struggled to break our addiction to. Former smokers have a legitimate reason not to want exposure to it.

/ If it's just water, then why can't you refill it at the sink?

You'll probably absorb more nicotine picking up a discarded cigarette butt than shotgunning the exhalation from an e-smoker's mouth.

There might be more nicotine in a discarded cigarette butt than in e-cig vapor, but a funny thing about lungs... they're designed to absorb. Skin is not. It's a barrier. The lungs absorb a lot more from the environment than skin because that's what they're designed for. Besides, there have been zero studies on the effects of second hand vapor from e-cigs on former smokers. I don't know about other former smokers, but I don't want to be the guinea pig. I'll wait until such studies have been performed before dropping my guard.


Don't get me wrong... I'm an e-cig advocate. I talked my dad into switching to them from cigarettes and he's much healthier for it. But I don't want him to use it near me.
 
2014-04-30 05:58:13 AM  

KawhostaYucwy: KawhostaYucwy: MagSeven: KawhostaYucwy: zarker: If water vapor makes you nauseous you've got bigger problems

It's not just water vapor. With few exceptions, it has lots of other chemicals, including the nicotine that many of us struggled to break our addiction to. Former smokers have a legitimate reason not to want exposure to it.

/ If it's just water, then why can't you refill it at the sink?

You'll probably absorb more nicotine picking up a discarded cigarette butt than shotgunning the exhalation from an e-smoker's mouth.

There might be more nicotine in a discarded cigarette butt than in e-cig vapor, but a funny thing about lungs... they're designed to absorb. Skin is not. It's a barrier. The lungs absorb a lot more from the environment than skin because that's what they're designed for. Besides, there have been zero studies on the effects of second hand vapor from e-cigs on former smokers. I don't know about other former smokers, but I don't want to be the guinea pig. I'll wait until such studies have been performed before dropping my guard.

Don't get me wrong... I'm an e-cig advocate. I talked my dad into switching to them from cigarettes and he's much healthier for it. But I don't want him to use it near me.


I respect that. I don't smoke anything around anyone who doesn't do the same. I don't mind stepping outside. But as you were saying, I think with anything potential in E-cigs, the smokers lungs will absorb any carcinogens well before they escape in the vapor. But I guess we will see in longer term studies. But again, no problems from me. I still usually go outside just as if I was smoking a regular Camel Light.
 
2014-04-30 07:02:18 AM  

AliceBToklasLives: So can we ban folks from chewing nicotine gum like a cow chewing its cud? I find it offensive.


That is one step closer to banning fat people from places.
 
2014-04-30 09:11:28 AM  

Kuta: robodog: This is a stupid ruling for public health. Vaping does NOTHING to harm anyone (I'm an asthmatic with an acute sensitivity to most artificial scents and many natural ones and yet having my brothers vape in my enclosed vehicle does nothing, were I not looking at them I wouldn't know they were vaping) and by vaping the user either reduces or eliminates their dependence on cigarettes.

So? Vape exhaust still interacts with the public. They can take it outside with the rest of the smokers. Hopefully the vapers will set a good example for the smokers to get off the cancer sticks too.

/next time I see someone vaping, I'm going to walk up and sneeze on them.


Enjoy your cockpunch.
 
2014-04-30 09:13:33 AM  
"The Easy Way To Quit Smoking" - Alan Carr

That did it for me. No urges to smoke at all since I read the book. Coming from 7 or 8 a day. Even while drinking. Truly spectacular.

As for vaping, I think the people who do it end up more addicted to nicotine and the only person I've known who did it often was a pretentious, conceited, ignorant fark. So as far as this is concerned, good.

It's definitely silly to not like a habit peoe have because of one person, but hey, thats just how the world works some days.
 
2014-04-30 09:31:20 AM  
Stopped smoking and started gaping over a month ago and I feel much better. I do it less and less since I don't have such a craving for it. I still don't find it socially acceptable to vape indoors in a public place, though.
 
2014-04-30 09:32:08 AM  
Vaping is what I started. I've been gaping for a long time already.
 
2014-04-30 09:47:04 AM  

AttawaYawattA: Studies are coming out linking the vapor to increased cancer risk.  I know it sucks, but there's no such thing as a free lunch.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/16/business/e-cigarette-study-data-ma y- raise-concerns.html?_r=0


From the article:
While e-cigarette vapor damaged human lung cells that were not modified to have the cancer-related mutations, it did not produce reactions in them associated with cancer, researchers reported. Such mutations, however, are found in some people who are smokers or who have stopped smoking.

In other words they had to mutate the cells being tested before vapor could be shown to cause cancer. However, some people have mutated cells from smoking. How many? Don't know, don't care. I wondered what happened to all those people that used to do second and third hand smoking research.

Studies can be easily skewed. For example studies show: Radon is a leading cause of cancer. Smoking is a leading cause of cancer. Second hand smoke is a leading cause of cancer. Were these studies done the same way as the vape study using mutated cells? When the statistics were tallied, were the homes of people counted as smoking deaths tested for radon? A lot of people hate smoking because some family member died of cancer; if this describes you - do you know if he family member's home was tested for Radon?

Radon causes lung cancer, as does smoking. Interestingly, the CDC doesn't tabulate lung cancer individually. If they did it would be the third highest cause of death among both smokers and non-smokers. Non-smokers are afraid of second hand smoke, when they are much more likely to get cancer from Radon. I don't look at this as being non-smokers fault - politics has been factored into the way the studies have been presented.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr62/nvsr62_06.pdf

http://www.epa.gov/radon/healthrisks.html#head
 
2014-04-30 09:49:06 AM  

KawhostaYucwy: zarker: If water vapor makes you nauseous you've got bigger problems

It's not just water vapor. With few exceptions, it has lots of other chemicals, including the nicotine that many of us struggled to break our addiction to. Former smokers have a legitimate reason not to want exposure to it.

/ If it's just water, then why can't you refill it at the sink?


So nicotine, PG, VG, and whatever flavoring (Sometimes none)= Lots of other chemicals? I guess your idea of "lots" is vastly different from mine.

Do you know what has "lots" of chemicals?
 
2014-04-30 09:58:03 AM  
Copy & paste from last thread because I don't feel like re-typing


The problem isn't the smell, it is almost non-existent. The problem isn't the second hand toxins, which is also almost non-existent (minute amounts of nicotine that is dissipated instantly, that's it). The problem is uninformed people thinking it is a hazard, and joyless jerks who cannot stand to see someone else doing something they don't understand and/or like. If you seriously have a problem with someone vaping in a social setting YOU are the problem.
 
2014-04-30 10:00:44 AM  
This is why Liberal is a slur in the U.S.

You're making things worse for everybody by both keeping people on cigarettes and tossing fuel to the tea-tard fire.  Unless you want the liberals to be synonymous with know-it-all busybodies for ANOTHER 30 years you're going to have to pull your head out of your asses.  Get over yourselves and do like good liberals are supposed to do, use real data for your decisions instead of the gut feelings and emotive bullying of people that aren't harming you that are teabagger trademark tactics.  Real data is how we've made a comeback, telling people 'that's banned because I don't like it, and you're probably just a bad person anyways' is how we go back to getting all the respect a liberal could expect in the mid 1980s.

Oh, and LazyMedia, you're not a libby-lib Liberal, your a liey-liar authoritarian.  But you know, for the cause!!! so it's okay.  You shortsighted egotists can't see past your own edginess to realize the effect you're having on peoples perception of us.

/every person who is scared off of ecigs as a cure for smoking by you lying authoritarian farks is death on your hands.  you might not admit it but you know deep down that it's true
 
2014-04-30 10:35:09 AM  

neomunk: /every person who is scared off of ecigs as a cure for smoking by you lying authoritarian farks is death on your hands. you might not admit it but you know deep down that it's true


What about every person who didn't smoke, but starts with e-cigs because others are doing it with little restrictions? Do they count as a plus or minus?

If I'm going to tally up this death score I want to make sure the numbers are right.
 
2014-04-30 10:57:40 AM  

Joe USer: neomunk: /every person who is scared off of ecigs as a cure for smoking by you lying authoritarian farks is death on your hands. you might not admit it but you know deep down that it's true

What about every person who didn't smoke, but starts with e-cigs because others are doing it with little restrictions? Do they count as a plus or minus?

If I'm going to tally up this death score I want to make sure the numbers are right.


I have a feeling that if anyone did an actual study into the numbers on both scores they would find the numbers completely skewed in one direction. I am also quite sure you already know which direction that would be.
 
2014-04-30 11:13:25 AM  

chozo13: I have a feeling that if anyone did an actual study into the numbers on both scores they would find the numbers completely skewed in one direction. I am also quite sure you already know which direction that would be.


No, actually I don't. I see teens with e-cigs all the time, I doubt they started with real cigarettes. I have no doubt that a small percentage of them will move on to real cigarettes. I also have no doubt that the majority of them will stick with e-cigarettes.

So, for that number that is greater than zero, do they count as a plus or minus?
 
2014-04-30 11:28:39 AM  
Can't wait for them to ban 4th hand smoke.  That's where someone heard that you smoked a cigarette and now it's giving them the "vapors".
 
2014-04-30 11:35:39 AM  

Joe USer: chozo13: I have a feeling that if anyone did an actual study into the numbers on both scores they would find the numbers completely skewed in one direction. I am also quite sure you already know which direction that would be.

No, actually I don't. I see teens with e-cigs all the time, I doubt they started with real cigarettes. I have no doubt that a small percentage of them will move on to real cigarettes. I also have no doubt that the majority of them will stick with e-cigarettes.

So, for that number that is greater than zero, do they count as a plus or minus?


Well then we can just use your conjecture in place of scientific evidence. Your anecdotal evidence mustbe accurate the world over. So to cancel out your anecdotal evidence here is mine. Everyone I have seen using the e-cigs are people either trying to quit or people trying to get their nicotine without the smell and harmful side effects.
 
2014-04-30 11:49:55 AM  

Polartank13: stpauler: I don't hang out with smokers or "vapers", but I walked by a person sneaking a vape in a mall last week. Then I walked by a woman who had just left the Clinique counter. Both offended my nose but nothing I didn't quickly get over.

Really? Cuz my friends that vape have got some of the nicest smelling flavors. I guess some people vape with essence of skunk's asshole.


I work with a guy that runs his own vape business and even makes his own concoctions of flavors.  One day he brought a bunch of vials in and asked me to smell each of them and rate them.  Watermelon was the best and I would care less if a vaper was blowing that smell my direction.  The worst was this flavor called "The Fidel Special" which was supposed to taste/smell like a cigar.  Two problems with that: 1 - It smelled like a burning asshole and 2 - Smoke a real cigar, don't vape one.  That flavor made me gag that I almost threw up it was that bad.  I told him it was one of the best flavors he had for fans of smoking butthole.
 
2014-04-30 12:01:17 PM  

chozo13: Joe USer: chozo13: I have a feeling that if anyone did an actual study into the numbers on both scores they would find the numbers completely skewed in one direction. I am also quite sure you already know which direction that would be.

No, actually I don't. I see teens with e-cigs all the time, I doubt they started with real cigarettes. I have no doubt that a small percentage of them will move on to real cigarettes. I also have no doubt that the majority of them will stick with e-cigarettes.

So, for that number that is greater than zero, do they count as a plus or minus?

Well then we can just use your conjecture in place of scientific evidence. Your anecdotal evidence mustbe accurate the world over. So to cancel out your anecdotal evidence here is mine. Everyone I have seen using the e-cigs are people either trying to quit or people trying to get their nicotine without the smell and harmful side effects.


So, you agree the number is greater than zero. Thanks for proving my point. Have a nice day.
 
2014-04-30 12:04:24 PM  

Joe USer: chozo13: Joe USer: chozo13: I have a feeling that if anyone did an actual study into the numbers on both scores they would find the numbers completely skewed in one direction. I am also quite sure you already know which direction that would be.

No, actually I don't. I see teens with e-cigs all the time, I doubt they started with real cigarettes. I have no doubt that a small percentage of them will move on to real cigarettes. I also have no doubt that the majority of them will stick with e-cigarettes.

So, for that number that is greater than zero, do they count as a plus or minus?

Well then we can just use your conjecture in place of scientific evidence. Your anecdotal evidence mustbe accurate the world over. So to cancel out your anecdotal evidence here is mine. Everyone I have seen using the e-cigs are people either trying to quit or people trying to get their nicotine without the smell and harmful side effects.

So, you agree the number is greater than zero. Thanks for proving my point. Have a nice day.


Cute
 
2014-04-30 01:08:51 PM  
Oh, vaping has nothing to do with raping vegans ? Who knew...
 
2014-04-30 02:02:46 PM  

mllawso: LazyMedia: people who start in college are a special kind of stupid.

Most college kids are still kids. Legally, they're adults, but a lot of them still act like teenagers. It takes a few years of *actual* adult life for them to figure the "responsibility/maturity" thing out.


If we didn't coddle our teenagers and instead gave them some responsibility, they wouldn't be acting like teens well into their 20's.  There was a time when 18 year olds were considered adults and if you were in college you were referred to as a college man/woman, not a college kid.
 
2014-04-30 06:06:00 PM  

NSFW: If we didn't coddle our teenagers and instead gave them some responsibility, they wouldn't be acting like teens well into their 20's. There was a time when 18 year olds were considered adults and if you were in college you were referred to as a college man/woman, not a college kid.


It's always been an issue of age. There isn't some set age where a person's brain turns from that of an adolescent to one of an adult, although for most people it's the mid twenties. 50-60 years ago we had the hippies, and before that the beatniks. Every generation has its stories of their dumb "college" years.
 
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