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(Gothamist)   Hey New Yorkers - tired of those pretentious hipster douchebags "vaping" at the next table? Well, starting today they'll be ostracized to the sidewalk outside with all the other smokers   (gothamist.com) divider line 244
    More: Interesting, New York City, Museum of Sex, tables, sidewalks  
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4456 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Apr 2014 at 5:49 PM (17 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-29 06:30:45 PM
At a bar the other night

Lady: "Ugh, I hate that we can't smoke in bars anymore. *pulls out some sort of robo-cig, puffs away, blows smoke*"

It's the new "LOOK AT ME! I'm an Attention whore!" So I'm cool with banning it for those reasons and those reasons alone.
 
2014-04-29 06:30:45 PM

noitsnot: AttawaYawattA: Studies are coming out linking the vapor to increased cancer risk.  I know it sucks, but there's no such thing as a free lunch.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/16/business/e-cigarette-study-data-ma y- raise-concerns.html?_r=0

You gotta figure it's the particulates and combustion products that are the cancer risk.  Some fog with nicotine dissolved in it can't be very carcinogenic.

Vapers were generally already cock-punchable people before they started vaping though, so you understand the impulse to persecute them.


Cancer is only a little more than half the risk in smoking. About 40 percent of the people who die from smoking-related illnesses die of stroke or heart attack. Nicotine kills.
 
2014-04-29 06:31:12 PM

duffblue: Banning e cigs indoors just goes to show you it's not about health issues, but control and the hard on for power


Winner winner, chicken dinner!
 
2014-04-29 06:31:41 PM

robodog: This is a stupid ruling for public health. Vaping does NOTHING to harm anyone (I'm an asthmatic with an acute sensitivity to most artificial scents and many natural ones and yet having my brothers vape in my enclosed vehicle does nothing, were I not looking at them I wouldn't know they were vaping) and by vaping the user either reduces or eliminates their dependence on cigarettes.


It allows smug assholes to continue inhaling their own farts with smug satisfaction. Thats about all the ruling does though.
 
2014-04-29 06:31:48 PM

pushcart: I wanted to pocket her like a sugar glider and carry her around forever.


Well that escalated quickly.
 
2014-04-29 06:32:49 PM
Watch an e-cig commercial and it's clear they aren't marketing to the best and brightest our species has to offer.
 
2014-04-29 06:32:53 PM

LazyMedia: Sounds like e-cig manufacturer propaganda. The research shows second-hand tobacco smoke is about 10 times stronger than second-hand vaping, but that still could be a health risk. The same cite notes that e-cig "smokers" inhale MORE nicotine than tobacco smokers.


Point of order: your earlier comment was that about 40% of the health risk from conventional tobacco was from nicotine, and thus presumably 60% of the health risk from ordinary cigarettes is from the other combustion products.

Assuming those ratios hold for second-hand tobacco smoke, the toxicity of secondhand vapor is 4% that of secondhand smoke, not 10%, since the former doesn't contain any of the other toxic components of the latter. (Let me know when there's any toxicity data on the non-nicotine additives in vapor cartridges - which should indeed be regulated by the FDA, by the way.)
 
2014-04-29 06:33:15 PM

IamAwake: DerpHerder: As far as the term vaping its an attempt to avoid the ire of anti-smoking zealots (not working too well).

it's smoking.   You're choosing to put untested chemicals which have at the very least, ostensibly, nicotine amongst their numbers.  You should do that crap in your own house, away from anyone else.  Stop smoking.  You're not an infant anymore, stop feeling the need to replace your thumb with something else constantly stuck into your mouth.


Nicotine is a hard drug to kick. Took me many years. I spent a decade on nicotine gum before finally getting free. If someone is using a delivery method which stops them screwing their lungs then good luck to them. They can vape round me any time. All they exhale is scented water vapour.
 
2014-04-29 06:33:49 PM

jbc: Why the hell do you use e-cigs anyway? They don't make you any less of a loser than real smokers; they just make you a battery-powered loser.


Well the original premise was that one could smoke an ecig in what is usually a non smoking area, kind of a convenience. I used to do both, smoke when I could and used ecig when in a situation where I couldn't, ie: on a plane. I used an ecig on a plane 5 years ago and no one complained, no flight attendants made me put it away, no one seemed even remotely offended. Of course i didnt blow the vapor in anyone's face either.
 
2014-04-29 06:35:23 PM
Just as bad as the conservatards
 
2014-04-29 06:35:43 PM
Yeesh.

I hate smoking. Like, really, passionately hate it.

But even I'm not dumb enough to think that the things I hate about smoking are the inhaling and the nicotine. I drink coffee for gods' sake!
 
2014-04-29 06:36:54 PM

Burning_Monk: Splish: The problem is that there are people who recognize that there are places you shouldn't smoke but think you can vape (and I feel like a tool for using that like it's a real word) wherever you want. They're doing it in restaurants, churches, hospitals, etc. Sometimes sneaking it like no one is going to notice, sometimes just openly doing it because they're the coolest.

Why is this a problem? I was under the impression that smoking was banded in resturants and other public spaces because of health issues for the workers there. Is nicotine vapor as harmful?


Wasn't that one of the problems?  They don't know what else besides nicotine is in some of the packages and there haven't been any longitudinal studies to indicate one way or the other what the health effects of these are on the user and those nearby?

I rather it be played safe rather than 10 years from now "z0mg they turned out to be worse than smoking asbestos with skunk odor".
 
2014-04-29 06:37:24 PM

tblax: My neighbor's 10 year old smokes an e-cig.  It smells like molten jolly rancher.

/Yes, my neighbors are white trash.
//THEY MOVE NEXT TUESDAY!

what the fark


It's pretty much what you'd expect from that first sentence.  I have another neighbor planning a party for the weekend after they leave.
 
2014-04-29 06:37:37 PM

IamAwake: You can't have it both ways.  Either your a douchenozzle for inhaling something that has had little to no testing, and it doesn't have any actual effects, thus it doesn't affect others....or, it has had little to no testing, and it has effects and also has those same effects on the people near you - for the same farking reason second-hand smoke does.


Fail.

IamAwake: it's smoking.


Fail again.

 You're choosing to put untested chemicals which have at the very least, ostensibly, nicotine amongst their numbers.

So much fail.

AttawaYawattA: Studies are coming out linking the vapor to increased cancer risk.  I know it sucks, but there's no such thing as a free lunch.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/16/business/e-cigarette-study-data-ma y- raise-concerns.html?_r=0


You mean they genetically modified tissue and then ran a study in a Petri dish that lasted for a whole WEEK?

Well fark me, I'm convinced. They saw "changes," this must mean ecigs are the debil. Except I confused as to why you would claim this study links ecigs to a higher cancer risk when the article specifically says "this is not evidence that there is an increased risk of cancer from ecigs."

All of which is beside the point. Ecigs don't have to be 100% safe. They only have to be safer than cigarettes for everyone to see a health benefit.
 
2014-04-29 06:38:05 PM
I'm a smoker and I'm okay with all the smoking laws. This is just stupid though. Chicago is doing the same thing.
 
2014-04-29 06:38:08 PM

miniflea: I was under the impression that nicotine itself isn't a problem and what causes cancer is all the other byproducts of combustion that make up smoke- any smoke, not just tobacco smoke which happens to contain nicotine. Also, all the crap added to cigarettes that aren't found in tobacco. Yet here this thread is, talking about the dangers of nicotine itself?

/occasionally enjoys a pipe


I'm always mystified by this widespread ignorance of the dangers of nicotine. Lung cancer linked to smoking kills about 125,000 people a year; heart attacks linked to smoking (mainly caused by chronic nicotine use) kills about 100,000.
 
2014-04-29 06:40:15 PM
Excellent. Now if we could just ban perfume, cologne, and body sprays in public, I'd be happy. After all, those things contain a plethora of untested and undisclosed ingredients, expose the people around you to those chemicals, and most importantly, make a lot of us nauseous when we have to share the same air space.

Then, let's get rid of the outdoor grill. I'm tired of having to inhale your dangerous smoke. If I'm sitting inside, I should be free to open my windows and not have my lungs raped by your dangerous smoke particulate.
 
2014-04-29 06:40:48 PM

Elegy: Well fark me, I'm convinced. They saw "changes," this must mean ecigs are the debil.


The amusing thing about this study is that the word "changes" was scare quoted the same way in the press release.
 
2014-04-29 06:41:50 PM

LazyMedia: About 40 percent of the people who die from smoking-related illnesses die of stroke or heart attack. Nicotine kills.


Nicotine is not what's plugging your arteries.
 
2014-04-29 06:42:09 PM

Zeromyhero: Drinkers = awesome
Smokers = whaaaaaambulance

Makes perfect sense.

Oh, also legalize weed because reasons.  Smoking other stuff is totally awesome.


Everyone's a hypocrite, especially on the Internet.  On one hand people here are "too intelligent" to do something stupid like smoking cigarettes.  As for weed, as you say, I think people who are against regular smoking like to defend it because weed smokers tend to come off as some downtrodden minority, and Internet people love to defend those. 

Drinking is a medicine that helps people forget how hypocritical they are, how shiatty their lives are and how few their hobbies and interests are outside of masturbating and playing games.
 
2014-04-29 06:42:22 PM

Mithiwithi: LazyMedia: Sounds like e-cig manufacturer propaganda. The research shows second-hand tobacco smoke is about 10 times stronger than second-hand vaping, but that still could be a health risk. The same cite notes that e-cig "smokers" inhale MORE nicotine than tobacco smokers.

Point of order: your earlier comment was that about 40% of the health risk from conventional tobacco was from nicotine, and thus presumably 60% of the health risk from ordinary cigarettes is from the other combustion products.

Assuming those ratios hold for second-hand tobacco smoke, the toxicity of secondhand vapor is 4% that of secondhand smoke, not 10%, since the former doesn't contain any of the other toxic components of the latter. (Let me know when there's any toxicity data on the non-nicotine additives in vapor cartridges - which should indeed be regulated by the FDA, by the way.)


Well, considering that second-hand smoke kills about 34,000 people per year from heart disease (caused by nicotine), I would think you'd really want to establish a safe level of aerosol nicotine before you let people blow it around in public spaces.
 
2014-04-29 06:43:17 PM

JDJoeE: Wasn't that one of the problems?  They don't know what else besides nicotine is in some of the packages and there haven't been any longitudinal studies to indicate one way or the other what the health effects of these are on the user and those nearby?


No. What is in the liquid is 100% transparent, as long as you don't buy from big tobacco or China. And no that I've ever met willingly buys juice from China.
 
2014-04-29 06:43:40 PM
It's great that you're not blowing carcinogens around the room, but you still smell like a tobacco fart
 
2014-04-29 06:43:57 PM
I have some vapors for the hipster douchebags. Pull my finger. No, really.
 
2014-04-29 06:44:31 PM

LazyMedia: Well, considering that second-hand smoke kills about 34,000 people per year from heart disease (caused by nicotine), I would think you'd really want to establish a safe level of aerosol nicotine before you let people blow it around in public spaces.

No.
 
2014-04-29 06:44:59 PM

AttawaYawattA: Studies are coming out linking the vapor to increased cancer risk.


No, they aren't: "Researchers involved in the little-noticed study emphasized that their findings were preliminary and that the study did not involve people but specially treated human lung cells."

The "specially treated" cells were treated to bring about a mutation that made the cell prone to cancer.

They then placed the cancer-prone cells in liquids containing stuff from e-liquid and cigarette smoke for four hours, and noticed a change in them that looked a lot like pre-cancer mutation.  

The problem is, you could place those cells in water for four hours and get the same effect, because they were treated to be cancer prone.

Further, there is no other study out there that even hints at this conclusion.

Anyone who reads this one study and summarizes it as "Studies are coming out linking the vapor to increased cancer risk"really doesn't know what they're talking about.
 
2014-04-29 06:46:22 PM

AttawaYawattA: Studies are coming out linking the vapor to increased cancer risk.  I know it sucks, but there's no such thing as a free lunch.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/16/business/e-cigarette-study-data-ma y- raise-concerns.html?_r=0


You know how I know you didn't RTFA? Because the article you linked to says:

"In the study, researchers modified human lung cells to have specific genetic mutations that are associated with an increased risk for cancer. They then grew the cells in a liquid medium exposed for four hours to the vapor generated by an e-cigarette. Similarly treated cells were grown in a medium exposed to tobacco smoke."

And

"Dr. Steven M. Dubinett, a professor at U.C.L.A. who led the study, emphasized in a telephone interview that the study's findings were preliminary and did not establish a link between e-cigarettes and cancer."

And

""Isolated cell systems may respond differently than organs in a person," he said.

While e-cigarette vapor damaged human lung cells that were not modified to have the cancer-related mutations, it did not produce reactions in them associated with cancer, researchers reported.
Such mutations, however, are found in some people who are smokers or who have stopped smoking."


Among other things.

So yeah, they proved that cells that are likely to get cancer get cancer. Amazing.
 
2014-04-29 06:47:05 PM

LazyMedia: noitsnot: AttawaYawattA: Studies are coming out linking the vapor to increased cancer risk.  I know it sucks, but there's no such thing as a free lunch.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/16/business/e-cigarette-study-data-ma y- raise-concerns.html?_r=0

You gotta figure it's the particulates and combustion products that are the cancer risk.  Some fog with nicotine dissolved in it can't be very carcinogenic.

Vapers were generally already cock-punchable people before they started vaping though, so you understand the impulse to persecute them.

Cancer is only a little more than half the risk in smoking. About 40 percent of the people who die from smoking-related illnesses die of stroke or heart attack. Nicotine kills.



Let me understand what you mean.  You are claiming that 40% of people who die from smoking related illness were killed by nicotine?
 
2014-04-29 06:48:01 PM

MelGoesOnTour: "Assemblywoman Linda Rosenthal told the Post, adding that she 'felt nauseous' when an e-cig user expelled vapor in her vicinity."

Figures.


She is a liar.  The vap that comes from e-cigarettes is water vapor with a bit of glycol and many don't contain nicotine. Does she get sick when the kettle boils or when she went to a disco with a fog machine.

No they are not 100% safe but they are a lot safer than cigarettes.

Just wait until people who vape start suing becaue they are being made to breath in actual cigarette smoke.
 
2014-04-29 06:50:22 PM

Guest: Just wait until people who vape start suing becaue they are being made to breath in actual cigarette smoke.


Oh god I would love this so much.
 
2014-04-29 06:50:54 PM

gadian: pushcart: I wanted to pocket her like a sugar glider and carry her around forever.

Well that escalated quickly.


Would you find fault?
She was adorable and smart and freckled! Even Ulysses lashed to the mast, ears stopped with wax, could not have resisted her.
 
2014-04-29 06:51:12 PM
Bad news for all you school marms: you're going to die too.
 
2014-04-29 06:51:28 PM

noitsnot: Let me understand what you mean.  You are claiming that 40% of people who die from smoking related illness were killed by nicotine?


That's exactly what he's saying and he's completely full of **it.
 
2014-04-29 06:54:09 PM

mike_d85: IamAwake: Hell, I'd like to also ban from bars those people who wear Axe products. But I'm over the top like that.

A bar with a mandatory hosing for entry would solve your problem.  It would probably be popular with spring breakers as well.  "Wet Willies" is taken...

"The Wet Bar"
"Water Tight"
"Water Balloon Smugglers"


Wet Dream
 
2014-04-29 06:55:13 PM

pushcart: Would you find fault?
She was adorable and smart and freckled! Even Ulysses lashed to the mast, ears stopped with wax, could not have resisted her.


I would.  You don't keep your tiny, adorable, smart, and freckled women in your pocket.  You get one of those dog bags so they'll have a water bottle and can look around.
 
2014-04-29 06:56:30 PM
But I can stil out-vape through my underwear, right?
 
2014-04-29 06:57:20 PM

Cheesehead_Dave: Brick-House: But is it Vape Vape?

You said "vape" twice.



i.imgur.com
/Couldn't find zombie Lincoln
 
2014-04-29 06:59:53 PM

LazyMedia: Well, considering that second-hand smoke kills about 34,000 people per year from heart disease (caused by nicotine), I would think you'd really want to establish a safe level of aerosol nicotine before you let people blow it around in public spaces.


Your source says that second-hand smoke kills 34,000 people per year from heart disease. It does not say that nicotine was the cause. Are you seriously asserting that nicotine is the only component in tobacco smoke with significant cardiac toxicity?

/my grandfather died of a heart attack, but only after he'd gotten lung cancer from smoking. I wonder where he'd have fallen in those statistics?
 
2014-04-29 07:00:35 PM

LazyMedia: Mithiwithi: LazyMedia: Sounds like e-cig manufacturer propaganda. The research shows second-hand tobacco smoke is about 10 times stronger than second-hand vaping, but that still could be a health risk. The same cite notes that e-cig "smokers" inhale MORE nicotine than tobacco smokers.

...

Well, considering that second-hand smoke kills about 34,000 people per year from heart disease (caused by nicotine), I would think you'd really want to establish a safe level of aerosol nicotine before you let people blow it around in public spaces.



It does not say that.  What's up with you and nicotine?
 
2014-04-29 07:00:44 PM

Without Fail: We now have a new technology that allows nicotine addicts the ability to satisfy their cravings without inconveniencing or endangering those around them. So let's do everything we can to discourage smokers from switching to it.

Authoritarian assholes.


Farking this.

I dated a smoker for a while, and let me tell you it was murder on her.  All the gum and patches in the world couldn't keep her from twitching like mad on any sort of long plane flight, simply because it's not absorbed in the same way as smoke is.  If e-cigs had been a thing then I would have gotten her one in a heartbeat just so she could have an emergency backup thing to deal with the cravings without causing any harm.

And seriously, good farking luck enforcing these bans.  Unlike a cigarette, it IS possible to covertly use an e-cig without anyone noticing, depending on the unit and the liquid used.  If you go to the bathroom on an airplane and sneak a quick vape nobody is going to know.  Especially if you drop a deuce while you're in there.

On the other side of it, I think the FDA needs to step in and regulate the liquid used in these things.  Right now there's minimal to no regulation over them, so in some cases you literally have no idea what you're vaping.  The more responsible manufacturers tell you of course, but not everyone is smart enough to realize that companies can and will sell you things that are completely unsafe just to make a quick buck, unless they are legally prohibited from doing so.
 
2014-04-29 07:02:40 PM

WTFDYW: Well, this thread is full throttle trolls trying to piss people off. I better go find a thread where people make sense.


You remember that you're on Fark, right?
 
2014-04-29 07:02:43 PM

puckrock2000: Meh - anything that cuts down on the number of hipster douchebags is fine with me.

Oh, and -

MelGoesOnTour: "Assemblywoman Linda Rosenthal told the Post, adding that she 'felt nauseous' when an e-cig user expelled vapor in her vicinity."

Figures.

You dropped this:
[1.bp.blogspot.com image 133x255]


????

commentisfreewatch.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-04-29 07:03:20 PM
The reason that anti-smokers hate vaping so much, even as a way for smokers to quit, is that vapers aren't repentant, and actually enjoy the way that they're getting a nicotine fix. The interesting thing about anti-vaper wankers is that some readily admit the problem for them isn't so much vaping per se, it's the way that all their good works to create a New Sin are being undermined by a close (but no cigar, har) copy.

1. Nicotine gum is like zebra stripe, a huge hit the first 2 minutes, then nothing but null chomping.

2. Plastic inhalers are nothing but placebos, and don't frankly deliver nicotine as promised.

3. Patches don't address any of the oral fixation that makes up addiction (heh, he said 'oral')

I've been tested twice by my wife. She substituted 0mg and 10mg juice for the 24mg I normally use. Each time, I realised after a few hours that I was huffing and huffing far more than usual.

The nicotine fix is quite real, not some pissy little headgame to make you think you're not fiending even though you're ready to climb the walls, and damn it's yummy.
 
2014-04-29 07:03:56 PM

fusillade762: Fusilier: cman: When you are at war you cannot let your enemy have any sort of win

That is why there is a movement against ecigs. Anti-tobacco people can't let smokers get a leg up no matter what the circumstance is.

Plus there is an instinctive response from the reptilian brain of government to regulate and tax all human activity. Anyone else getting a wee bit fed up with these new "Puritans"?

New? America has been full of them forever. The idea that someone, somewhere might be having fun is repugnant to them.


Well, I grew up as a Presbyterian, so I'm used to the Old Puritans. The padre when I was a kid used to actually pray that Gawd would not make him "irresponsibly happy".  Authoritarian progressives are just as big a pain in the keister.
/thanks for the H.L.Mencken reference. He knew how to handle Puritan wanksters.
 
2014-04-29 07:04:51 PM
I quit smoking back in August (and, by some miracle, managed to not kill anybody). I never considered going the whole vape route for the same reason I didn't go with the patch or the gum years earlier: I didn't want to exchange one form of nicotine addiction for another.

That being said, I think this anti-smoking and anti-vaping crusade should leave bars the hell alone. Yes, smoking is bad for your lungs and heart, but if you're in a bar you're consuming beverages which harm your liver and brain cells. Why do you suddenly care more about one organ than another?
 
2014-04-29 07:05:31 PM

LZeitgeist: If 'vape smoke' is exhaled water vapor, could it transmit disease from the 'vaper' to the secondhand vapor recipients?

\serious question
\\no snark


The same way exhaling does. Are the militant anti-smokers going to try to ban that too?
 
2014-04-29 07:06:30 PM

LZeitgeist: If 'vape smoke' is exhaled water vapor, could it transmit disease from the 'vaper' to the secondhand vapor recipients?

\serious question
\\no snark


There's free vapor that did not make contact with alveoli so no tissue contact and there's the moisture vapor that evaporates off your alveoli and other wet parts. In theory it's just water or volatile compounds. But probably not worse than airborne viruses or bacterium that get ejected in tiny water/spit droplets by coughing sneezing speaking singing laughing etc.
 
2014-04-29 07:08:03 PM

yukichigai: WTFDYW: Well, this thread is full throttle trolls trying to piss people off. I better go find a thread where people make sense.

You remember that you're on Fark, right?


Yeah, was about to say whatever troll-y behavior in this thread pales in comparison to what's happening elsewhere.
 
2014-04-29 07:08:13 PM

Guest: Just wait until people who vape start suing becaue they are being made to breath in actual cigarette smoke.


Wouldn't blame them... most switched to vaping to get rid of smoking and the risk it presents.

Water vapor against the smoke of burning leaves...  not even close to the same thing at this point.
 
2014-04-29 07:11:42 PM

Danger Avoid Death: I quit smoking back in August (and, by some miracle, managed to not kill anybody). I never considered going the whole vape route for the same reason I didn't go with the patch or the gum years earlier: I didn't want to exchange one form of nicotine addiction for another.

That being said, I think this anti-smoking and anti-vaping crusade should leave bars the hell alone. Yes, smoking is bad for your lungs and heart, but if you're in a bar you're consuming beverages which harm your liver and brain cells. Why do you suddenly care more about one organ than another?


Nevada got its own anti-smoking bill, but the Casinos ensured that it was moderated to a surprising level of sanity.  Rather than banning smoking everywhere, the bill simply bans smoking wherever food is prepared in anything more complicated than a microwave or auto-fryer.  We can and do still have bars which allow smoking, and you can even get basic bar food like corn dogs and fries there.  Once you start cooking food though, no smoking.  Works out pretty well in most cases.

Oh, and unlike insanity in other states, if a restaurant has an outdoor seating area you can smoke there too, no matter what.  One of the best bar-grilles in Reno has a rooftop seating area that is just delightful, and I've had many a late night meal there with friends who smoke.
 
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