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(Gothamist)   Hey New Yorkers - tired of those pretentious hipster douchebags "vaping" at the next table? Well, starting today they'll be ostracized to the sidewalk outside with all the other smokers   (gothamist.com ) divider line 241
    More: Interesting, New York City, Museum of Sex, tables, sidewalks  
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4532 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Apr 2014 at 5:49 PM (1 year ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-29 04:20:35 PM  
"Assemblywoman Linda Rosenthal told the Post, adding that she 'felt nauseous' when an e-cig user expelled vapor in her vicinity."

Figures.
 
2014-04-29 04:42:28 PM  
If it is a bar, let them vape.  At a regular restaurant?  No.
 
2014-04-29 04:47:20 PM  
When you are at war you cannot let your enemy have any sort of win

That is why there is a movement against ecigs. Anti-tobacco people can't let smokers get a leg up no matter what the circumstance is.
 
2014-04-29 05:13:11 PM  
Why is vaping in quotes?
 
2014-04-29 05:17:31 PM  

BSABSVR: Why is vaping in quotes?


It hasn't formally been charged with vape yet.
 
2014-04-29 05:25:16 PM  
I don't hang out with smokers or "vapers", but I walked by a person sneaking a vape in a mall last week. Then I walked by a woman who had just left the Clinique counter. Both offended my nose but nothing I didn't quickly get over.
 
2014-04-29 05:34:58 PM  

stpauler: I don't hang out with smokers or "vapers", but I walked by a person sneaking a vape in a mall last week. Then I walked by a woman who had just left the Clinique counter. Both offended my nose but nothing I didn't quickly get over.


Really? Cuz my friends that vape have got some of the nicest smelling flavors. I guess some people vape with essence of skunk's asshole.
 
2014-04-29 05:39:25 PM  
"Funny, now that I know these things won't kill me, I don't enjoy them."

/obscure?
 
2014-04-29 05:46:36 PM  

MelGoesOnTour: "Assemblywoman Linda Rosenthal told the Post, adding that she 'felt nauseous' when an e-cig user expelled vapor in her vicinity."

Figures.


She's an idiot, but you?

img.fark.net
 
2014-04-29 05:48:32 PM  

brap: BSABSVR: Why is vaping in quotes?

It hasn't formally been charged with vape yet.


In cases of legitimate vape, New York has ways of shutting the whole thing down.
 
jbc [TotalFark]
2014-04-29 05:49:24 PM  
Why the hell do you use e-cigs anyway? They don't make you any less of a loser than real smokers; they just make you a battery-powered loser.
 
2014-04-29 05:52:57 PM  
Drinkers = awesome
Smokers = whaaaaaambulance

Makes perfect sense.

Oh, also legalize weed because reasons.  Smoking other stuff is totally awesome.
 
2014-04-29 05:53:08 PM  
Its cool NYC doesn't have any real issues to address so they have time for this kind of stuff.
 
2014-04-29 05:53:33 PM  

jbc: Why the hell do you use e-cigs anyway? They don't make you any less of a loser than real smokers; they just make you a battery-powered loser.


I would guess the lack of ash inhalation is a plus.
 
2014-04-29 05:53:40 PM  
I just got my pax ploom and I am extremely happy with it
 
2014-04-29 05:53:59 PM  
thecarnivoreproject.typepad.com
 
2014-04-29 05:55:27 PM  
The problem is that there are people who recognize that there are places you shouldn't smoke but think you can vape (and I feel like a tool for using that like it's a real word) wherever you want. They're doing it in restaurants, churches, hospitals, etc. Sometimes sneaking it like no one is going to notice, sometimes just openly doing it because they're the coolest.
 
2014-04-29 05:56:05 PM  

jbc: Why the hell do you use e-cigs anyway? They don't make you any less of a loser than real smokers; they just make you a battery-powered loser.


Why are you so boring?
 
2014-04-29 05:56:16 PM  
But is it Vape Vape?
 
2014-04-29 05:56:33 PM  

cman: When you are at war you cannot let your enemy have any sort of win

That is why there is a movement against ecigs. Anti-tobacco people can't let smokers get a leg up no matter what the circumstance is.


Plus there is an instinctive response from the reptilian brain of government to regulate and tax all human activity. Anyone else getting a wee bit fed up with these new "Puritans"?
 
2014-04-29 05:56:40 PM  

jbc: Why the hell do you use e-cigs anyway? They don't make you any less of a loser than real smokers; they just make you a battery-powered loser.


Hey, at least it makes you a loser without lung cancer.
 
2014-04-29 05:57:20 PM  
Vaping is less bad than smoking when it comes to those around them. Just like molesting a woman with your hands is less bad than full penetration rape.
 
2014-04-29 05:57:22 PM  

Zeromyhero: Drinkers = awesome
Smokers = whaaaaaambulance

Makes perfect sense.


At least threads like this help us to identify the insufferable douchebags here.
 
2014-04-29 05:57:51 PM  
If water vapor makes you nauseous you've got bigger problems
 
2014-04-29 05:59:01 PM  

Polartank13: stpauler: I don't hang out with smokers or "vapers", but I walked by a person sneaking a vape in a mall last week. Then I walked by a woman who had just left the Clinique counter. Both offended my nose but nothing I didn't quickly get over.

Really? Cuz my friends that vape have got some of the nicest smelling flavors. I guess some people vape with essence of skunk's asshole.


 Nepwort makes a vape?
 
2014-04-29 06:00:32 PM  

Fluid: jbc: Why the hell do you use e-cigs anyway? They don't make you any less of a loser than real smokers; they just make you a battery-powered loser.

Hey, at least it makes you a loser without lung cancer.


Yeah, but if you're vaping nicotine, you still have the same increased risk of heart attack and stroke. Wouldn't want to lose that!
 
2014-04-29 06:00:36 PM  

PC LOAD LETTER: Vaping is less bad than smoking when it comes to those around them. Just like molesting a woman with your hands is less bad than full penetration rape.


jbc: Why the hell do you use e-cigs anyway? They don't make you any less of a loser than real smokers; they just make you a battery-powered loser.


3/10

Too obvious for most, but you'll get bites from the braindead.
 
2014-04-29 06:01:12 PM  

cman: When you are at war you cannot let your enemy have any sort of win

That is why there is a movement against ecigs. Anti-tobacco people can't let smokers get a leg up no matter what the circumstance is.


^This.  They're just being silly.  I feel like car exhaust on the street probably does more damage than second hand e-cig vapor at the bar.
 
2014-04-29 06:01:20 PM  
This is about people getting a boner from telling others what not to do. Nothing more.
 
2014-04-29 06:01:22 PM  

Splish: The problem is that there are people who recognize that there are places you shouldn't smoke but think you can vape (and I feel like a tool for using that like it's a real word) wherever you want. They're doing it in restaurants, churches, hospitals, etc. Sometimes sneaking it like no one is going to notice, sometimes just openly doing it because they're the coolest.


Why is this a problem? I was under the impression that smoking was banded in resturants and other public spaces because of health issues for the workers there. Is nicotine vapor as harmful?
 
2014-04-29 06:01:53 PM  
This is a stupid ruling for public health. Vaping does NOTHING to harm anyone (I'm an asthmatic with an acute sensitivity to most artificial scents and many natural ones and yet having my brothers vape in my enclosed vehicle does nothing, were I not looking at them I wouldn't know they were vaping) and by vaping the user either reduces or eliminates their dependence on cigarettes.
 
2014-04-29 06:02:00 PM  

DerpHerder: jbc: Why the hell do you use e-cigs anyway? They don't make you any less of a loser than real smokers; they just make you a battery-powered loser.

Why are you so boring?


Stupid =/= interesting. And smoking is pants-on-head stupid. I give people a break if they started smoking before age 18, because teenagers are by definition retarded, but people who start in college are a special kind of stupid.
 
2014-04-29 06:02:08 PM  

jbc: Why the hell do you use e-cigs anyway? They don't make you any less of a loser than real smokers; they just make you a battery-powered loser.


I worked with a guy that was trying to quit.  But the job became stressful so it was his way of coping.  12 hours a day, sucking on that thing like crazy.  I'm surprised he didn't suck the chrome off of it
 
2014-04-29 06:02:11 PM  

cman: When you are at war you cannot let your enemy have any sort of win

That is why there is a movement against ecigs. Anti-tobacco people can't let smokers get a leg up no matter what the circumstance is.


Nah, it just smells like crap and pisses off people around them. I was all for e-cigs until a friend got in our car and "lit" one up. We told him to stop in 20 seconds. I guess that's better than an actual cig, since we would have thrown him out of the car at speed.

Make your habit not piss off everyone around you and fark up our breathing, and you can do whatever the hell you want.
 
2014-04-29 06:02:15 PM  

Dragonflew: Zeromyhero: Drinkers = awesome
Smokers = whaaaaaambulance

Makes perfect sense.

At least threads like this help us to identify the insufferable douchebags here.


I can't inhale your alcohol from the table next to you. Same applies to children or asthmatics, etc.

Clearly someone wrote before actually thinking about their own question.
 
2014-04-29 06:02:39 PM  
Meh - anything that cuts down on the number of hipster douchebags is fine with me.

Oh, and -

MelGoesOnTour: "Assemblywoman Linda Rosenthal told the Post, adding that she 'felt nauseous' when an e-cig user expelled vapor in her vicinity."

Figures.


You dropped this:
1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-04-29 06:02:48 PM  

Zeromyhero: Drinkers = awesome
Smokers = whaaaaaambulance

Makes perfect sense.


I don't know what bars you hang out at but it's usually not common for drinkers to vomit back out their drinks into other peoples' mouths and nostrils.
 
2014-04-29 06:02:48 PM  

Splish: The problem is that there are people who recognize that there are places you shouldn't smoke but think you can vape (and I feel like a tool for using that like it's a real word) wherever you want. They're doing it in restaurants, churches, hospitals, etc. Sometimes sneaking it like no one is going to notice, sometimes just openly doing it because they're the coolest.


This is very true. I always go outside unless I am given permission. I've actually had people ask me why I wasnt just doing so inside, my answer is always the same I don't want to make anyone uncomfortable. As far as the term vaping its an attempt to avoid the ire of anti-smoking zealots (not working too well). I do however sneak a tute in the bathroom at sporting events I figure that's probably low on the list of things to worry about in such places.
 
2014-04-29 06:02:56 PM  
If 'vape smoke' is exhaled water vapor, could it transmit disease from the 'vaper' to the secondhand vapor recipients?

\serious question
\\no snark
 
2014-04-29 06:03:05 PM  

zarker: If water vapor makes you nauseous you've got bigger problems


My neighbor's 10 year old smokes an e-cig.  It smells like molten jolly rancher.

/Yes, my neighbors are white trash.
//THEY MOVE NEXT TUESDAY!
 
2014-04-29 06:03:22 PM  

Zeromyhero: Oh, also legalize weed because reasons.


You're really unclear on the reasons?

  Smoking other stuff is totally awesome.

Smoke all you want, just do it with the other lepers.
 
2014-04-29 06:03:41 PM  
We now have a new technology that allows nicotine addicts the ability to satisfy their cravings without inconveniencing or endangering those around them. So let's do everything we can to discourage smokers from switching to it.

Authoritarian assholes.
 
2014-04-29 06:04:43 PM  

LZeitgeist: If 'vape smoke' is exhaled water vapor, could it transmit disease from the 'vaper' to the secondhand vapor recipients?

\serious question
\\no snark


Everyone exhales water vapor. This is called breathing.
 
2014-04-29 06:04:44 PM  

LazyMedia: Fluid: jbc: Why the hell do you use e-cigs anyway? They don't make you any less of a loser than real smokers; they just make you a battery-powered loser.

Hey, at least it makes you a loser without lung cancer.

Yeah, but if you're vaping nicotine, you still have the same increased risk of heart attack and stroke. Wouldn't want to lose that!


On the same risk level of consuming caffeine.
 
2014-04-29 06:04:59 PM  

Burning_Monk: Splish: The problem is that there are people who recognize that there are places you shouldn't smoke but think you can vape (and I feel like a tool for using that like it's a real word) wherever you want. They're doing it in restaurants, churches, hospitals, etc. Sometimes sneaking it like no one is going to notice, sometimes just openly doing it because they're the coolest.

Why is this a problem? I was under the impression that smoking was banded in resturants and other public spaces because of health issues for the workers there. Is nicotine vapor as harmful?


I believe they've determined that nicotine vaping creates about 1/10th the amount of second-hand nicotine ingestion from people passively breathing it in a bar situation as smoking does. So still too much for workplace health, I would imagine. Nicotine increases the risk of heart attack and stroke, no matter how you ingest it.
 
2014-04-29 06:05:17 PM  

Brick-House: But is it Vape Vape?


Naa.. The e-cig was too sleek.. Couldn't help but vape it. If these e-cigs wouldn't look so damn sleek then maybe people wouldn't want to vape them.
 
2014-04-29 06:05:30 PM  

a21ozcoldcup: Dragonflew: Zeromyhero: Drinkers = awesome
Smokers = whaaaaaambulance

Makes perfect sense.

At least threads like this help us to identify the insufferable douchebags here.

I can't inhale your alcohol from the table next to you. Same applies to children or asthmatics, etc.

Clearly someone wrote before actually thinking about their own question.


Get a longer straw, problem solved.
 
2014-04-29 06:05:42 PM  
I was recently in a bar with someone who was vaping.  Zero farks were given.
 
2014-04-29 06:05:55 PM  

Splish: The problem is that there are people who recognize that there are places you shouldn't smoke but think you can vape (and I feel like a tool for using that like it's a real word) wherever you want. They're doing it in restaurants, churches, hospitals, etc. Sometimes sneaking it like no one is going to notice, sometimes just openly doing it because they're the coolest.


For better or worse it's going to be regulated exactly like tobacco. The e-cig industry did a great job bringing this upon themselves, not being open about ingredients, not doing multiple health studies, etc. It's their burden to prove safety.

The users didn't help much either, as I'm about to be called a troll for telling the truth.
 
2014-04-29 06:06:33 PM  

LZeitgeist: If 'vape smoke' is exhaled water vapor, could it transmit disease from the 'vaper' to the secondhand vapor recipients?

\serious question
\\no snark


No more so than the water vapor you aspirate normally, I would think. And yeah, you can catch diseases from other people breathing on you.
 
2014-04-29 06:06:48 PM  

LZeitgeist: If 'vape smoke' is exhaled water vapor, could it transmit disease from the 'vaper' to the secondhand vapor recipients?

\serious question
\\no snark


Not anymore than actually exhaling without the vapor can. Whenever you breath out you are already releasing a shiatton of water particulate into the air, vaping just makes it more visible.
 
2014-04-29 06:07:12 PM  
Good, I don't want your nicotine laced humid cherry breath blown in my face either.
 
2014-04-29 06:09:41 PM  

LZeitgeist: If 'vape smoke' is exhaled water vapor, could it transmit disease from the 'vaper' to the secondhand vapor recipients?

\serious question
\\no snark


You mean just like when people regularly exhale without vaping?
 
2014-04-29 06:09:45 PM  

LazyMedia: Fluid: jbc: Why the hell do you use e-cigs anyway? They don't make you any less of a loser than real smokers; they just make you a battery-powered loser.

Hey, at least it makes you a loser without lung cancer.

Yeah, but if you're vaping nicotine, you still have the same increased risk of heart attack and stroke. Wouldn't want to lose that!


Not the same "increased" risk. Look it up.
 
2014-04-29 06:10:11 PM  

robodog: This is a stupid ruling for public health. Vaping does NOTHING to harm anyone (I'm an asthmatic with an acute sensitivity to most artificial scents and many natural ones and yet having my brothers vape in my enclosed vehicle does nothing, were I not looking at them I wouldn't know they were vaping) and by vaping the user either reduces or eliminates their dependence on cigarettes.


So? Vape exhaust still interacts with the public. They can take it outside with the rest of the smokers. Hopefully the vapers will set a good example for the smokers to get off the cancer sticks too.

/next time I see someone vaping, I'm going to walk up and sneeze on them.
 
2014-04-29 06:10:54 PM  

DerpHerder: LazyMedia: Fluid: jbc: Why the hell do you use e-cigs anyway? They don't make you any less of a loser than real smokers; they just make you a battery-powered loser.

Hey, at least it makes you a loser without lung cancer.

Yeah, but if you're vaping nicotine, you still have the same increased risk of heart attack and stroke. Wouldn't want to lose that!

On the same risk level of consuming caffeine.


Wrong. Moderate caffeine use has no proven health risks associated with it AT ALL. In fact, moderate coffee drinking has a number of health benefits (because of the antioxidents in coffee, I assume), including a lower risk of Type II diabetes. Nicotine accounts for about 40 percent of deaths associated with smoking.
 
2014-04-29 06:11:05 PM  
I just made the switch to e-cigs and I agree. I won't smoke them where I wouldn't smoke an ordinary cigarette. (I have snuck a drag or two in an empty  bathroom, but that will be our little secret).  I also don't like the ones that billow clouds of "vape" that make it look like you're smoking 3 cigars at the same time.
 
2014-04-29 06:12:31 PM  

LazyMedia: Burning_Monk: Splish: The problem is that there are people who recognize that there are places you shouldn't smoke but think you can vape (and I feel like a tool for using that like it's a real word) wherever you want. They're doing it in restaurants, churches, hospitals, etc. Sometimes sneaking it like no one is going to notice, sometimes just openly doing it because they're the coolest.

Why is this a problem? I was under the impression that smoking was banded in resturants and other public spaces because of health issues for the workers there. Is nicotine vapor as harmful?

I believe they've determined that nicotine vaping creates about 1/10th the amount of second-hand nicotine ingestion from people passively breathing it in a bar situation as smoking does. So still too much for workplace health, I would imagine. Nicotine increases the risk of heart attack and stroke, no matter how you ingest it.


Citation needed. The nicotine exhaled is on par with that witch is released while cooking a pot of tomato sauce. Italian restaurants better watch out.
 
2014-04-29 06:12:35 PM  

LZeitgeist: If 'vape smoke' is exhaled water vapor, could it transmit disease from the 'vaper' to the secondhand vapor recipients?

\serious question
\\no snark


Interesting question. Would the higher temperatures hinder or help microbes? Might keep them alive longer, so they can travel further and live longer on surfaces, on the other hand, it might kill em all and reduce transmission.
 
2014-04-29 06:12:52 PM  

zarker: If water vapor makes you nauseous you've got bigger problems


You obviously have never hung out with my uncle the day after the Superbowl.
 
2014-04-29 06:13:41 PM  
Good.jpeg
 
2014-04-29 06:13:50 PM  

jbc: Why the hell do you use e-cigs anyway? They don't make you any less of a loser than real smokers; they just make you a battery-powered loser.


Please play again later. You suck at this game. Practice more. There is more that I could say, but it would get me a time out, depending on who is moderating.
 
2014-04-29 06:14:39 PM  

Onkel Buck: Polartank13: stpauler: I don't hang out with smokers or "vapers", but I walked by a person sneaking a vape in a mall last week. Then I walked by a woman who had just left the Clinique counter. Both offended my nose but nothing I didn't quickly get over.

Really? Cuz my friends that vape have got some of the nicest smelling flavors. I guess some people vape with essence of skunk's asshole.

 Nepwort makes a vape?


Harry Puffer went to Nepworts.
 
2014-04-29 06:15:11 PM  

robodog: Vaping does NOTHING to harm anyone


Citations, thanks.

/you won't be able to find any because there haven't been any studies done
//derp and double derp on you!
 
2014-04-29 06:15:56 PM  
Studies are coming out linking the vapor to increased cancer risk.  I know it sucks, but there's no such thing as a free lunch.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/16/business/e-cigarette-study-data-ma y- raise-concerns.html?_r=0
 
2014-04-29 06:16:41 PM  

LazyMedia: Fluid: jbc: Why the hell do you use e-cigs anyway? They don't make you any less of a loser than real smokers; they just make you a battery-powered loser.

Hey, at least it makes you a loser without lung cancer.

Yeah, but if you're vaping nicotine, you still have the same increased risk of heart attack and stroke. Wouldn't want to lose that!


WRONG again. You must be a Tea Partier that hates science. Go read something other than the bible.
 
2014-04-29 06:16:54 PM  

Kuta: robodog: This is a stupid ruling for public health. Vaping does NOTHING to harm anyone (I'm an asthmatic with an acute sensitivity to most artificial scents and many natural ones and yet having my brothers vape in my enclosed vehicle does nothing, were I not looking at them I wouldn't know they were vaping) and by vaping the user either reduces or eliminates their dependence on cigarettes.

So? Vape exhaust still interacts with the public. They can take it outside with the rest of the smokers. Hopefully the vapers will set a good example for the smokers to get off the cancer sticks too.

/next time I see someone vaping, I'm going to walk up and sneeze on them

You may get punched in the face. You will deserve it. Hope I'm there to see it.

 
2014-04-29 06:16:56 PM  

zarker: If water vapor makes you nauseous you've got bigger problems


Big difference between water vapor and vapor that's been laced with all the neato chemicals that are in the e-cig cartridges. But nice try.
 
2014-04-29 06:17:40 PM  

Polartank13: stpauler: I don't hang out with smokers or "vapers", but I walked by a person sneaking a vape in a mall last week. Then I walked by a woman who had just left the Clinique counter. Both offended my nose but nothing I didn't quickly get over.

Really? Cuz my friends that vape have got some of the nicest smelling flavors. I guess some people vape with essence of skunk's asshole.


If "vaping" does anything at all to the person holding the "e-cig" then guess what - it does the SAME FARKING THING to the rest of us.  Meaning, if you're sitting there "vaping" next to someone in a bar, then they are doing it too because the vapor in the farking air is still carrying those farking chemicals.

You can't have it both ways.  Either your a douchenozzle for inhaling something that has had little to no testing, and it doesn't have any actual effects, thus it doesn't affect others....or, it has had little to no testing, and it has effects and also has those same effects on the people near you - for the same farking reason second-hand smoke does.

Hell, I'd like to also ban from bars those people who wear Axe products.  But I'm over the top like that.
 
2014-04-29 06:18:02 PM  

a21ozcoldcup: I can't inhale your alcohol from the table next to you. Same applies to children or asthmatics, etc.

Clearly someone wrote before actually thinking about their own question.


If a little water vapor causes you that much distress, you need to be living in a clean room. And no, you won't be inhaling any "vape smoke", as it dissipates pretty damn quickly. Sounds like you wrote before thinking.
 
2014-04-29 06:18:40 PM  
Isn't vaping short for vaginal gaping? I can see why it might be frowned upon in a public venue but I'm not sure the sidewalk is a better place....
 
2014-04-29 06:19:16 PM  

LazyMedia: DerpHerder: LazyMedia: Fluid: jbc: Why the hell do you use e-cigs anyway? They don't make you any less of a loser than real smokers; they just make you a battery-powered loser.

Hey, at least it makes you a loser without lung cancer.

Yeah, but if you're vaping nicotine, you still have the same increased risk of heart attack and stroke. Wouldn't want to lose that!

On the same risk level of consuming caffeine.

Wrong. Moderate caffeine use has no proven health risks associated with it AT ALL. In fact, moderate coffee drinking has a number of health benefits (because of the antioxidents in coffee, I assume), including a lower risk of Type II diabetes. Nicotine accounts for about 40 percent of deaths associated with smoking.


A lot of people are not moderate users of caffeine...
 
2014-04-29 06:19:24 PM  

Zeromyhero: Drinkers = awesome
Smokers = whaaaaaambulance

Makes perfect sense.

Oh, also legalize weed because reasons.  Smoking other stuff is totally awesome.


Last time I checked, the act of you consuming a drink in my presence did not potentially harm me by default.  As for smoking weed, you can be damn sure that it'll face the same restrictions, if not more, than regular smoking.
 
2014-04-29 06:19:25 PM  

DerpHerder: LazyMedia: Burning_Monk: Splish: The problem is that there are people who recognize that there are places you shouldn't smoke but think you can vape (and I feel like a tool for using that like it's a real word) wherever you want. They're doing it in restaurants, churches, hospitals, etc. Sometimes sneaking it like no one is going to notice, sometimes just openly doing it because they're the coolest.

Why is this a problem? I was under the impression that smoking was banded in resturants and other public spaces because of health issues for the workers there. Is nicotine vapor as harmful?

I believe they've determined that nicotine vaping creates about 1/10th the amount of second-hand nicotine ingestion from people passively breathing it in a bar situation as smoking does. So still too much for workplace health, I would imagine. Nicotine increases the risk of heart attack and stroke, no matter how you ingest it.

Citation needed. The nicotine exhaled is on par with that witch is released while cooking a pot of tomato sauce. Italian restaurants better watch out.


Sounds like e-cig manufacturer propaganda. The research shows second-hand tobacco smoke is about 10 times stronger than second-hand vaping, but that still could be a health risk. The same cite notes that e-cig "smokers" inhale MORE nicotine than tobacco smokers.
 
2014-04-29 06:19:38 PM  
I've only noticed people vaping when I saw what looked like smoke and was confused.  I smelled nothing.  Not sure what I'd do if someone blew anything in my face.  You think a e-cig would fit up someones ass?
 
2014-04-29 06:19:56 PM  

mike_d85: zarker: If water vapor makes you nauseous you've got bigger problems

My neighbor's 10 year old smokes an e-cig.  It smells like molten jolly rancher.

/Yes, my neighbors are white trash.
//THEY MOVE NEXT TUESDAY!


what the fark
 
2014-04-29 06:20:14 PM  
So can we ban folks from chewing nicotine gum like a cow chewing its cud? I find it offensive.
 
2014-04-29 06:20:21 PM  

IamAwake: Hell, I'd like to also ban from bars those people who wear Axe products.  But I'm over the top like that.


Axe should be considered chemical warfare.
 
2014-04-29 06:21:09 PM  

DerpHerder: As far as the term vaping its an attempt to avoid the ire of anti-smoking zealots (not working too well).


it's smoking.   You're choosing to put untested chemicals which have at the very least, ostensibly, nicotine amongst their numbers.  You should do that crap in your own house, away from anyone else.  Stop smoking.  You're not an infant anymore, stop feeling the need to replace your thumb with something else constantly stuck into your mouth.
 
2014-04-29 06:21:20 PM  

brap: BSABSVR: Why is vaping in quotes?

It hasn't formally been charged with vape yet.


Vape vape?
 
2014-04-29 06:21:56 PM  
Well, this thread is full throttle trolls trying to piss people off. I better go find a thread where people make sense.
 
2014-04-29 06:22:01 PM  

The My Little Pony Killer: robodog: Vaping does NOTHING to harm anyone

Citations, thanks.

/you won't be able to find any because there haven't been any studies done
//derp and double derp on you!


Incorrect. Igor Burstyn, Drexel University. Submitted for peer review: http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2458/14/18/

Shows that e-cigs/vaping poses less risk to public health via "secondhand vaping" than inhaling aerosol air freshener.
 
2014-04-29 06:23:20 PM  

Brick-House: But is it Vape Vape?


You said "vape" twice.
 
2014-04-29 06:23:35 PM  

WTFDYW: LazyMedia: Fluid: jbc: Why the hell do you use e-cigs anyway? They don't make you any less of a loser than real smokers; they just make you a battery-powered loser.

Hey, at least it makes you a loser without lung cancer.

Yeah, but if you're vaping nicotine, you still have the same increased risk of heart attack and stroke. Wouldn't want to lose that!

WRONG again. You must be a Tea Partier that hates science. Go read something other than the bible.


Nicotine is nicotine, and causes atherosclerosis. Sorry, nicotine addicts, no free lunch for you.

/I thought being anti-smoking was a libtard thing?
//Libtard.
 
2014-04-29 06:23:35 PM  
Banning e cigs indoors just goes to show you it's not about health issues, but control and the hard on for power
 
2014-04-29 06:24:18 PM  
I just saw a guy at an airport bar wearing a vape pen necklace like a steampunk amulet. When he sucked on it he exhaled a prodigious wreath of vapor. I tried to care about secondhand vapors but I was kind of drunk so I couldn't summon enough clarity to study it out. And there was a kind of hot freckled Asian girl talking to me so I was distracted. She was tiny. She was flying to Boston. I figured her for a post-grad. When vapor pen guy ordered a craft IPA
I lost interest in him. The freckled Asian girl captivated me. I wanted to pocket her like a sugar glider and carry her around forever.
 
2014-04-29 06:25:26 PM  
I don't smoke cigarettes or vape e-cigarettes but the number of people that have this overwhelmingly adverse reaction to people having a habit they dislike is appalling. Oh no your delicate nose happened upon a scent you find unpleasant? Why we must make sure your precious nose is no longer offended! We must ban the thing that the other person enjoys because your tiny little baby nosey wosey can't handle the smell. Get a life you farking losers. Maybe if the world wasn't full of such insufferable coonts such as yourselves people wouldn't seek out these mind altering substances to escape from the shiatty world you apparently get off on living in. You've already moved the smokers out of every indoor venue on the planet, the vapor isn't anywhere near a public health hazard (oh no, 1/10th of the nicotine, the horror the horror!?!?) and you should get bent.
 
2014-04-29 06:25:52 PM  

IamAwake: Hell, I'd like to also ban from bars those people who wear Axe products. But I'm over the top like that.


A bar with a mandatory hosing for entry would solve your problem.  It would probably be popular with spring breakers as well.  "Wet Willies" is taken...

"The Wet Bar"
"Water Tight"
"Water Balloon Smugglers"
 
2014-04-29 06:26:02 PM  

AttawaYawattA: Studies are coming out linking the vapor to increased cancer risk.  I know it sucks, but there's no such thing as a free lunch.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/16/business/e-cigarette-study-data-ma y- raise-concerns.html?_r=0


You gotta figure it's the particulates and combustion products that are the cancer risk.  Some fog with nicotine dissolved in it can't be very carcinogenic.

Vapers were generally already cock-punchable people before they started vaping though, so you understand the impulse to persecute them.
 
2014-04-29 06:26:19 PM  
Calm down tards.  Smoked for 15 years, now I "vape" (to use the parlance of our times, "subby") and I walk down to the smoker's cage/zone/pit every damn time.  Excusing oneself from annoying groups and/or work for a few minutes was part of the reason I enjoyed smoking to begin with.
 
2014-04-29 06:26:50 PM  

pushcart: I just saw a guy at an airport bar wearing a vape pen necklace like a steampunk amulet. When he sucked on it he exhaled a prodigious wreath of vapor. I tried to care about secondhand vapors but I was kind of drunk so I couldn't summon enough clarity to study it out. And there was a kind of hot freckled Asian girl talking to me so I was distracted. She was tiny. She was flying to Boston. I figured her for a post-grad. When vapor pen guy ordered a craft IPA
I lost interest in him. The freckled Asian girl captivated me. I wanted to pocket her like a sugar glider and carry her around forever.


You responded appropriately.
 
2014-04-29 06:27:08 PM  

Fusilier: cman: When you are at war you cannot let your enemy have any sort of win

That is why there is a movement against ecigs. Anti-tobacco people can't let smokers get a leg up no matter what the circumstance is.

Plus there is an instinctive response from the reptilian brain of government to regulate and tax all human activity. Anyone else getting a wee bit fed up with these new "Puritans"?


New? America has been full of them forever. The idea that someone, somewhere might be having fun is repugnant to them.
 
2014-04-29 06:28:08 PM  
It's rather unfortunate that people doing ecigs are going to be regulated the same as smokers. The whole premise of them in the first place is to be able to "smoke" in what are usually non smoking areas. shiat I remember about 5 years ago i tried one of them blu ecigs and smoked it on a plane. No one said shiat or complained.
 
2014-04-29 06:28:16 PM  
I was under the impression that nicotine itself isn't a problem and what causes cancer is all the other byproducts of combustion that make up smoke- any smoke, not just tobacco smoke which happens to contain nicotine. Also, all the crap added to cigarettes that aren't found in tobacco. Yet here this thread is, talking about the dangers of nicotine itself?

/occasionally enjoys a pipe
 
2014-04-29 06:28:34 PM  
Something something mah freedoms something something.
 
2014-04-29 06:28:50 PM  

IamAwake: it's smoking.


No it isn't, you brain dead troll.
 
2014-04-29 06:28:51 PM  

Aigoo: The My Little Pony Killer: robodog: Vaping does NOTHING to harm anyone

Citations, thanks.

/you won't be able to find any because there haven't been any studies done
//derp and double derp on you!

Incorrect. Igor Burstyn, Drexel University. Submitted for peer review: http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2458/14/18/

Shows that e-cigs/vaping poses less risk to public health via "secondhand vaping" than inhaling aerosol air freshener.


Oh, FFS, read your farking links. That study says that e-cigs pose no increased risk of exposure to "contaminants" like formaldehyde. It says nothing about the risk of exposure to THE ACTUAL ACTIVE INGREDIENT in nicotine vaping, which is nicotine, and which causes atherosclerosis regardless of how it's administered.

Current state of knowledge about chemistry of liquids and aerosols associated with electronic cigarettes indicates that there is no evidence that vaping produces inhalable exposures to contaminants of the aerosol that would warrant health concerns by the standards that are used to ensure safety of workplaces.  However, the aerosol generated during vaping as a whole (contaminants  plus declared ingredients) creates personal exposures that would justify surveillance of health among exposed persons in conjunction with investigation of means to keep any adverse health effects as low as reasonably achievable.
 
2014-04-29 06:29:17 PM  

Aigoo: The My Little Pony Killer: robodog: Vaping does NOTHING to harm anyone

Citations, thanks.

/you won't be able to find any because there haven't been any studies done
//derp and double derp on you!

Incorrect. Igor Burstyn, Drexel University. Submitted for peer review: http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2458/14/18/

Shows that e-cigs/vaping poses less risk to public health via "secondhand vaping" than inhaling aerosol air freshener.


Yanno, if you started blasting air freshener around at a bar or a restaurant, the staff would ask you to leave.
 
2014-04-29 06:29:48 PM  

Splish: The problem is that there are people who recognize that there are places you shouldn't smoke but think you can vape (and I feel like a tool for using that like it's a real word) wherever you want. They're doing it in restaurants, churches, hospitals, etc. Sometimes sneaking it like no one is going to notice, sometimes just openly doing it because they're the coolest.


I suppose you'd biatch if they drank a beverage with nicotine in it as well?
 
2014-04-29 06:30:41 PM  

a21ozcoldcup: Dragonflew: Zeromyhero: Drinkers = awesome
Smokers = whaaaaaambulance

Makes perfect sense.

At least threads like this help us to identify the insufferable douchebags here.

I can't inhale your alcohol from the table next to you. Same applies to children or asthmatics, etc.

Clearly someone wrote before actually thinking about their own question.


You can be killed by someone driving home after drinking alcohol. And on a public road, not in a bar or restaurant that allows vaping that you have the ability to not walk into and sit down in.
 
2014-04-29 06:30:45 PM  
At a bar the other night

Lady: "Ugh, I hate that we can't smoke in bars anymore. *pulls out some sort of robo-cig, puffs away, blows smoke*"

It's the new "LOOK AT ME! I'm an Attention whore!" So I'm cool with banning it for those reasons and those reasons alone.
 
2014-04-29 06:30:45 PM  

noitsnot: AttawaYawattA: Studies are coming out linking the vapor to increased cancer risk.  I know it sucks, but there's no such thing as a free lunch.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/16/business/e-cigarette-study-data-ma y- raise-concerns.html?_r=0

You gotta figure it's the particulates and combustion products that are the cancer risk.  Some fog with nicotine dissolved in it can't be very carcinogenic.

Vapers were generally already cock-punchable people before they started vaping though, so you understand the impulse to persecute them.


Cancer is only a little more than half the risk in smoking. About 40 percent of the people who die from smoking-related illnesses die of stroke or heart attack. Nicotine kills.
 
2014-04-29 06:31:12 PM  

duffblue: Banning e cigs indoors just goes to show you it's not about health issues, but control and the hard on for power


Winner winner, chicken dinner!
 
2014-04-29 06:31:41 PM  

robodog: This is a stupid ruling for public health. Vaping does NOTHING to harm anyone (I'm an asthmatic with an acute sensitivity to most artificial scents and many natural ones and yet having my brothers vape in my enclosed vehicle does nothing, were I not looking at them I wouldn't know they were vaping) and by vaping the user either reduces or eliminates their dependence on cigarettes.


It allows smug assholes to continue inhaling their own farts with smug satisfaction. Thats about all the ruling does though.
 
2014-04-29 06:31:48 PM  

pushcart: I wanted to pocket her like a sugar glider and carry her around forever.


Well that escalated quickly.
 
2014-04-29 06:32:49 PM  
Watch an e-cig commercial and it's clear they aren't marketing to the best and brightest our species has to offer.
 
2014-04-29 06:32:53 PM  

LazyMedia: Sounds like e-cig manufacturer propaganda. The research shows second-hand tobacco smoke is about 10 times stronger than second-hand vaping, but that still could be a health risk. The same cite notes that e-cig "smokers" inhale MORE nicotine than tobacco smokers.


Point of order: your earlier comment was that about 40% of the health risk from conventional tobacco was from nicotine, and thus presumably 60% of the health risk from ordinary cigarettes is from the other combustion products.

Assuming those ratios hold for second-hand tobacco smoke, the toxicity of secondhand vapor is 4% that of secondhand smoke, not 10%, since the former doesn't contain any of the other toxic components of the latter. (Let me know when there's any toxicity data on the non-nicotine additives in vapor cartridges - which should indeed be regulated by the FDA, by the way.)
 
2014-04-29 06:33:15 PM  

IamAwake: DerpHerder: As far as the term vaping its an attempt to avoid the ire of anti-smoking zealots (not working too well).

it's smoking.   You're choosing to put untested chemicals which have at the very least, ostensibly, nicotine amongst their numbers.  You should do that crap in your own house, away from anyone else.  Stop smoking.  You're not an infant anymore, stop feeling the need to replace your thumb with something else constantly stuck into your mouth.


Nicotine is a hard drug to kick. Took me many years. I spent a decade on nicotine gum before finally getting free. If someone is using a delivery method which stops them screwing their lungs then good luck to them. They can vape round me any time. All they exhale is scented water vapour.
 
2014-04-29 06:33:49 PM  

jbc: Why the hell do you use e-cigs anyway? They don't make you any less of a loser than real smokers; they just make you a battery-powered loser.


Well the original premise was that one could smoke an ecig in what is usually a non smoking area, kind of a convenience. I used to do both, smoke when I could and used ecig when in a situation where I couldn't, ie: on a plane. I used an ecig on a plane 5 years ago and no one complained, no flight attendants made me put it away, no one seemed even remotely offended. Of course i didnt blow the vapor in anyone's face either.
 
2014-04-29 06:35:23 PM  
Just as bad as the conservatards
 
2014-04-29 06:35:43 PM  
Yeesh.

I hate smoking. Like, really, passionately hate it.

But even I'm not dumb enough to think that the things I hate about smoking are the inhaling and the nicotine. I drink coffee for gods' sake!
 
2014-04-29 06:36:54 PM  

Burning_Monk: Splish: The problem is that there are people who recognize that there are places you shouldn't smoke but think you can vape (and I feel like a tool for using that like it's a real word) wherever you want. They're doing it in restaurants, churches, hospitals, etc. Sometimes sneaking it like no one is going to notice, sometimes just openly doing it because they're the coolest.

Why is this a problem? I was under the impression that smoking was banded in resturants and other public spaces because of health issues for the workers there. Is nicotine vapor as harmful?


Wasn't that one of the problems?  They don't know what else besides nicotine is in some of the packages and there haven't been any longitudinal studies to indicate one way or the other what the health effects of these are on the user and those nearby?

I rather it be played safe rather than 10 years from now "z0mg they turned out to be worse than smoking asbestos with skunk odor".
 
2014-04-29 06:37:24 PM  

tblax: My neighbor's 10 year old smokes an e-cig.  It smells like molten jolly rancher.

/Yes, my neighbors are white trash.
//THEY MOVE NEXT TUESDAY!

what the fark


It's pretty much what you'd expect from that first sentence.  I have another neighbor planning a party for the weekend after they leave.
 
2014-04-29 06:37:37 PM  

IamAwake: You can't have it both ways.  Either your a douchenozzle for inhaling something that has had little to no testing, and it doesn't have any actual effects, thus it doesn't affect others....or, it has had little to no testing, and it has effects and also has those same effects on the people near you - for the same farking reason second-hand smoke does.


Fail.

IamAwake: it's smoking.


Fail again.

 You're choosing to put untested chemicals which have at the very least, ostensibly, nicotine amongst their numbers.

So much fail.

AttawaYawattA: Studies are coming out linking the vapor to increased cancer risk.  I know it sucks, but there's no such thing as a free lunch.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/16/business/e-cigarette-study-data-ma y- raise-concerns.html?_r=0


You mean they genetically modified tissue and then ran a study in a Petri dish that lasted for a whole WEEK?

Well fark me, I'm convinced. They saw "changes," this must mean ecigs are the debil. Except I confused as to why you would claim this study links ecigs to a higher cancer risk when the article specifically says "this is not evidence that there is an increased risk of cancer from ecigs."

All of which is beside the point. Ecigs don't have to be 100% safe. They only have to be safer than cigarettes for everyone to see a health benefit.
 
2014-04-29 06:38:05 PM  
I'm a smoker and I'm okay with all the smoking laws. This is just stupid though. Chicago is doing the same thing.
 
2014-04-29 06:38:08 PM  

miniflea: I was under the impression that nicotine itself isn't a problem and what causes cancer is all the other byproducts of combustion that make up smoke- any smoke, not just tobacco smoke which happens to contain nicotine. Also, all the crap added to cigarettes that aren't found in tobacco. Yet here this thread is, talking about the dangers of nicotine itself?

/occasionally enjoys a pipe


I'm always mystified by this widespread ignorance of the dangers of nicotine. Lung cancer linked to smoking kills about 125,000 people a year; heart attacks linked to smoking (mainly caused by chronic nicotine use) kills about 100,000.
 
2014-04-29 06:40:15 PM  
Excellent. Now if we could just ban perfume, cologne, and body sprays in public, I'd be happy. After all, those things contain a plethora of untested and undisclosed ingredients, expose the people around you to those chemicals, and most importantly, make a lot of us nauseous when we have to share the same air space.

Then, let's get rid of the outdoor grill. I'm tired of having to inhale your dangerous smoke. If I'm sitting inside, I should be free to open my windows and not have my lungs raped by your dangerous smoke particulate.
 
2014-04-29 06:40:48 PM  

Elegy: Well fark me, I'm convinced. They saw "changes," this must mean ecigs are the debil.


The amusing thing about this study is that the word "changes" was scare quoted the same way in the press release.
 
2014-04-29 06:41:50 PM  

LazyMedia: About 40 percent of the people who die from smoking-related illnesses die of stroke or heart attack. Nicotine kills.


Nicotine is not what's plugging your arteries.
 
2014-04-29 06:42:09 PM  

Zeromyhero: Drinkers = awesome
Smokers = whaaaaaambulance

Makes perfect sense.

Oh, also legalize weed because reasons.  Smoking other stuff is totally awesome.


Everyone's a hypocrite, especially on the Internet.  On one hand people here are "too intelligent" to do something stupid like smoking cigarettes.  As for weed, as you say, I think people who are against regular smoking like to defend it because weed smokers tend to come off as some downtrodden minority, and Internet people love to defend those. 

Drinking is a medicine that helps people forget how hypocritical they are, how shiatty their lives are and how few their hobbies and interests are outside of masturbating and playing games.
 
2014-04-29 06:42:22 PM  

Mithiwithi: LazyMedia: Sounds like e-cig manufacturer propaganda. The research shows second-hand tobacco smoke is about 10 times stronger than second-hand vaping, but that still could be a health risk. The same cite notes that e-cig "smokers" inhale MORE nicotine than tobacco smokers.

Point of order: your earlier comment was that about 40% of the health risk from conventional tobacco was from nicotine, and thus presumably 60% of the health risk from ordinary cigarettes is from the other combustion products.

Assuming those ratios hold for second-hand tobacco smoke, the toxicity of secondhand vapor is 4% that of secondhand smoke, not 10%, since the former doesn't contain any of the other toxic components of the latter. (Let me know when there's any toxicity data on the non-nicotine additives in vapor cartridges - which should indeed be regulated by the FDA, by the way.)


Well, considering that second-hand smoke kills about 34,000 people per year from heart disease (caused by nicotine), I would think you'd really want to establish a safe level of aerosol nicotine before you let people blow it around in public spaces.
 
2014-04-29 06:43:17 PM  

JDJoeE: Wasn't that one of the problems? They don't know what else besides nicotine is in some of the packages and there haven't been any longitudinal studies to indicate one way or the other what the health effects of these are on the user and those nearby?


No. What is in the liquid is 100% transparent, as long as you don't buy from big tobacco or China. And no that I've ever met willingly buys juice from China.
 
2014-04-29 06:43:40 PM  
It's great that you're not blowing carcinogens around the room, but you still smell like a tobacco fart
 
2014-04-29 06:43:57 PM  
I have some vapors for the hipster douchebags. Pull my finger. No, really.
 
2014-04-29 06:44:31 PM  

LazyMedia: Well, considering that second-hand smoke kills about 34,000 people per year from heart disease (caused by nicotine), I would think you'd really want to establish a safe level of aerosol nicotine before you let people blow it around in public spaces.

No.
 
2014-04-29 06:44:59 PM  

AttawaYawattA: Studies are coming out linking the vapor to increased cancer risk.


No, they aren't: "Researchers involved in the little-noticed study emphasized that their findings were preliminary and that the study did not involve people but specially treated human lung cells."

The "specially treated" cells were treated to bring about a mutation that made the cell prone to cancer.

They then placed the cancer-prone cells in liquids containing stuff from e-liquid and cigarette smoke for four hours, and noticed a change in them that looked a lot like pre-cancer mutation.  

The problem is, you could place those cells in water for four hours and get the same effect, because they were treated to be cancer prone.

Further, there is no other study out there that even hints at this conclusion.

Anyone who reads this one study and summarizes it as "Studies are coming out linking the vapor to increased cancer risk"really doesn't know what they're talking about.
 
2014-04-29 06:46:22 PM  

AttawaYawattA: Studies are coming out linking the vapor to increased cancer risk.  I know it sucks, but there's no such thing as a free lunch.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/16/business/e-cigarette-study-data-ma y- raise-concerns.html?_r=0


You know how I know you didn't RTFA? Because the article you linked to says:

"In the study, researchers modified human lung cells to have specific genetic mutations that are associated with an increased risk for cancer. They then grew the cells in a liquid medium exposed for four hours to the vapor generated by an e-cigarette. Similarly treated cells were grown in a medium exposed to tobacco smoke."

And

"Dr. Steven M. Dubinett, a professor at U.C.L.A. who led the study, emphasized in a telephone interview that the study's findings were preliminary and did not establish a link between e-cigarettes and cancer."

And

""Isolated cell systems may respond differently than organs in a person," he said.

While e-cigarette vapor damaged human lung cells that were not modified to have the cancer-related mutations, it did not produce reactions in them associated with cancer, researchers reported.
Such mutations, however, are found in some people who are smokers or who have stopped smoking."


Among other things.

So yeah, they proved that cells that are likely to get cancer get cancer. Amazing.
 
2014-04-29 06:47:05 PM  

LazyMedia: noitsnot: AttawaYawattA: Studies are coming out linking the vapor to increased cancer risk.  I know it sucks, but there's no such thing as a free lunch.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/16/business/e-cigarette-study-data-ma y- raise-concerns.html?_r=0

You gotta figure it's the particulates and combustion products that are the cancer risk.  Some fog with nicotine dissolved in it can't be very carcinogenic.

Vapers were generally already cock-punchable people before they started vaping though, so you understand the impulse to persecute them.

Cancer is only a little more than half the risk in smoking. About 40 percent of the people who die from smoking-related illnesses die of stroke or heart attack. Nicotine kills.



Let me understand what you mean.  You are claiming that 40% of people who die from smoking related illness were killed by nicotine?
 
2014-04-29 06:48:01 PM  

MelGoesOnTour: "Assemblywoman Linda Rosenthal told the Post, adding that she 'felt nauseous' when an e-cig user expelled vapor in her vicinity."

Figures.


She is a liar.  The vap that comes from e-cigarettes is water vapor with a bit of glycol and many don't contain nicotine. Does she get sick when the kettle boils or when she went to a disco with a fog machine.

No they are not 100% safe but they are a lot safer than cigarettes.

Just wait until people who vape start suing becaue they are being made to breath in actual cigarette smoke.
 
2014-04-29 06:50:22 PM  

Guest: Just wait until people who vape start suing becaue they are being made to breath in actual cigarette smoke.


Oh god I would love this so much.
 
2014-04-29 06:50:54 PM  

gadian: pushcart: I wanted to pocket her like a sugar glider and carry her around forever.

Well that escalated quickly.


Would you find fault?
She was adorable and smart and freckled! Even Ulysses lashed to the mast, ears stopped with wax, could not have resisted her.
 
2014-04-29 06:51:12 PM  
Bad news for all you school marms: you're going to die too.
 
2014-04-29 06:51:28 PM  

noitsnot: Let me understand what you mean.  You are claiming that 40% of people who die from smoking related illness were killed by nicotine?


That's exactly what he's saying and he's completely full of **it.
 
2014-04-29 06:54:09 PM  

mike_d85: IamAwake: Hell, I'd like to also ban from bars those people who wear Axe products. But I'm over the top like that.

A bar with a mandatory hosing for entry would solve your problem.  It would probably be popular with spring breakers as well.  "Wet Willies" is taken...

"The Wet Bar"
"Water Tight"
"Water Balloon Smugglers"


Wet Dream
 
2014-04-29 06:55:13 PM  

pushcart: Would you find fault?
She was adorable and smart and freckled! Even Ulysses lashed to the mast, ears stopped with wax, could not have resisted her.


I would.  You don't keep your tiny, adorable, smart, and freckled women in your pocket.  You get one of those dog bags so they'll have a water bottle and can look around.
 
2014-04-29 06:56:30 PM  
But I can stil out-vape through my underwear, right?
 
2014-04-29 06:57:20 PM  

Cheesehead_Dave: Brick-House: But is it Vape Vape?

You said "vape" twice.



i.imgur.com
/Couldn't find zombie Lincoln
 
2014-04-29 06:59:53 PM  

LazyMedia: Well, considering that second-hand smoke kills about 34,000 people per year from heart disease (caused by nicotine), I would think you'd really want to establish a safe level of aerosol nicotine before you let people blow it around in public spaces.


Your source says that second-hand smoke kills 34,000 people per year from heart disease. It does not say that nicotine was the cause. Are you seriously asserting that nicotine is the only component in tobacco smoke with significant cardiac toxicity?

/my grandfather died of a heart attack, but only after he'd gotten lung cancer from smoking. I wonder where he'd have fallen in those statistics?
 
2014-04-29 07:00:35 PM  

LazyMedia: Mithiwithi: LazyMedia: Sounds like e-cig manufacturer propaganda. The research shows second-hand tobacco smoke is about 10 times stronger than second-hand vaping, but that still could be a health risk. The same cite notes that e-cig "smokers" inhale MORE nicotine than tobacco smokers.

...

Well, considering that second-hand smoke kills about 34,000 people per year from heart disease (caused by nicotine), I would think you'd really want to establish a safe level of aerosol nicotine before you let people blow it around in public spaces.



It does not say that.  What's up with you and nicotine?
 
2014-04-29 07:00:44 PM  

Without Fail: We now have a new technology that allows nicotine addicts the ability to satisfy their cravings without inconveniencing or endangering those around them. So let's do everything we can to discourage smokers from switching to it.

Authoritarian assholes.


Farking this.

I dated a smoker for a while, and let me tell you it was murder on her.  All the gum and patches in the world couldn't keep her from twitching like mad on any sort of long plane flight, simply because it's not absorbed in the same way as smoke is.  If e-cigs had been a thing then I would have gotten her one in a heartbeat just so she could have an emergency backup thing to deal with the cravings without causing any harm.

And seriously, good farking luck enforcing these bans.  Unlike a cigarette, it IS possible to covertly use an e-cig without anyone noticing, depending on the unit and the liquid used.  If you go to the bathroom on an airplane and sneak a quick vape nobody is going to know.  Especially if you drop a deuce while you're in there.

On the other side of it, I think the FDA needs to step in and regulate the liquid used in these things.  Right now there's minimal to no regulation over them, so in some cases you literally have no idea what you're vaping.  The more responsible manufacturers tell you of course, but not everyone is smart enough to realize that companies can and will sell you things that are completely unsafe just to make a quick buck, unless they are legally prohibited from doing so.
 
2014-04-29 07:02:40 PM  

WTFDYW: Well, this thread is full throttle trolls trying to piss people off. I better go find a thread where people make sense.


You remember that you're on Fark, right?
 
2014-04-29 07:02:43 PM  

puckrock2000: Meh - anything that cuts down on the number of hipster douchebags is fine with me.

Oh, and -

MelGoesOnTour: "Assemblywoman Linda Rosenthal told the Post, adding that she 'felt nauseous' when an e-cig user expelled vapor in her vicinity."

Figures.

You dropped this:
[1.bp.blogspot.com image 133x255]


????

commentisfreewatch.files.wordpress.com
 
2014-04-29 07:03:20 PM  
The reason that anti-smokers hate vaping so much, even as a way for smokers to quit, is that vapers aren't repentant, and actually enjoy the way that they're getting a nicotine fix. The interesting thing about anti-vaper wankers is that some readily admit the problem for them isn't so much vaping per se, it's the way that all their good works to create a New Sin are being undermined by a close (but no cigar, har) copy.

1. Nicotine gum is like zebra stripe, a huge hit the first 2 minutes, then nothing but null chomping.

2. Plastic inhalers are nothing but placebos, and don't frankly deliver nicotine as promised.

3. Patches don't address any of the oral fixation that makes up addiction (heh, he said 'oral')

I've been tested twice by my wife. She substituted 0mg and 10mg juice for the 24mg I normally use. Each time, I realised after a few hours that I was huffing and huffing far more than usual.

The nicotine fix is quite real, not some pissy little headgame to make you think you're not fiending even though you're ready to climb the walls, and damn it's yummy.
 
2014-04-29 07:03:56 PM  

fusillade762: Fusilier: cman: When you are at war you cannot let your enemy have any sort of win

That is why there is a movement against ecigs. Anti-tobacco people can't let smokers get a leg up no matter what the circumstance is.

Plus there is an instinctive response from the reptilian brain of government to regulate and tax all human activity. Anyone else getting a wee bit fed up with these new "Puritans"?

New? America has been full of them forever. The idea that someone, somewhere might be having fun is repugnant to them.


Well, I grew up as a Presbyterian, so I'm used to the Old Puritans. The padre when I was a kid used to actually pray that Gawd would not make him "irresponsibly happy".  Authoritarian progressives are just as big a pain in the keister.
/thanks for the H.L.Mencken reference. He knew how to handle Puritan wanksters.
 
2014-04-29 07:04:51 PM  
I quit smoking back in August (and, by some miracle, managed to not kill anybody). I never considered going the whole vape route for the same reason I didn't go with the patch or the gum years earlier: I didn't want to exchange one form of nicotine addiction for another.

That being said, I think this anti-smoking and anti-vaping crusade should leave bars the hell alone. Yes, smoking is bad for your lungs and heart, but if you're in a bar you're consuming beverages which harm your liver and brain cells. Why do you suddenly care more about one organ than another?
 
2014-04-29 07:05:31 PM  

LZeitgeist: If 'vape smoke' is exhaled water vapor, could it transmit disease from the 'vaper' to the secondhand vapor recipients?

\serious question
\\no snark


The same way exhaling does. Are the militant anti-smokers going to try to ban that too?
 
2014-04-29 07:06:30 PM  

LZeitgeist: If 'vape smoke' is exhaled water vapor, could it transmit disease from the 'vaper' to the secondhand vapor recipients?

\serious question
\\no snark


There's free vapor that did not make contact with alveoli so no tissue contact and there's the moisture vapor that evaporates off your alveoli and other wet parts. In theory it's just water or volatile compounds. But probably not worse than airborne viruses or bacterium that get ejected in tiny water/spit droplets by coughing sneezing speaking singing laughing etc.
 
2014-04-29 07:08:03 PM  

yukichigai: WTFDYW: Well, this thread is full throttle trolls trying to piss people off. I better go find a thread where people make sense.

You remember that you're on Fark, right?


Yeah, was about to say whatever troll-y behavior in this thread pales in comparison to what's happening elsewhere.
 
2014-04-29 07:08:13 PM  

Guest: Just wait until people who vape start suing becaue they are being made to breath in actual cigarette smoke.


Wouldn't blame them... most switched to vaping to get rid of smoking and the risk it presents.

Water vapor against the smoke of burning leaves...  not even close to the same thing at this point.
 
2014-04-29 07:11:42 PM  

Danger Avoid Death: I quit smoking back in August (and, by some miracle, managed to not kill anybody). I never considered going the whole vape route for the same reason I didn't go with the patch or the gum years earlier: I didn't want to exchange one form of nicotine addiction for another.

That being said, I think this anti-smoking and anti-vaping crusade should leave bars the hell alone. Yes, smoking is bad for your lungs and heart, but if you're in a bar you're consuming beverages which harm your liver and brain cells. Why do you suddenly care more about one organ than another?


Nevada got its own anti-smoking bill, but the Casinos ensured that it was moderated to a surprising level of sanity.  Rather than banning smoking everywhere, the bill simply bans smoking wherever food is prepared in anything more complicated than a microwave or auto-fryer.  We can and do still have bars which allow smoking, and you can even get basic bar food like corn dogs and fries there.  Once you start cooking food though, no smoking.  Works out pretty well in most cases.

Oh, and unlike insanity in other states, if a restaurant has an outdoor seating area you can smoke there too, no matter what.  One of the best bar-grilles in Reno has a rooftop seating area that is just delightful, and I've had many a late night meal there with friends who smoke.
 
2014-04-29 07:12:42 PM  
I'm sitting here, puffing on my ProTank2 with 0-nic RY4/French Vanilla, getting a kick out of this thread.
 
2014-04-29 07:12:42 PM  

puckrock2000: Meh - anything that cuts down on the number of hipster douchebags is fine with me.

Oh, and -

MelGoesOnTour: "Assemblywoman Linda Rosenthal told the Post, adding that she 'felt nauseous' when an e-cig user expelled vapor in her vicinity."

Figures.

You dropped this:
[1.bp.blogspot.com image 133x255]


A bit sensitive today, are you?

But you are correct in that if her name was Smith I would not but have said anything other than "What an asshat".  But this is Linda Rosenthal we're talking about---she'll look under a rock and find something to biatch about.
 
2014-04-29 07:15:59 PM  

LazyMedia: Mithiwithi: LazyMedia: Sounds like e-cig manufacturer propaganda. The research shows second-hand tobacco smoke is about 10 times stronger than second-hand vaping, but that still could be a health risk. The same cite notes that e-cig "smokers" inhale MORE nicotine than tobacco smokers.

Point of order: your earlier comment was that about 40% of the health risk from conventional tobacco was from nicotine, and thus presumably 60% of the health risk from ordinary cigarettes is from the other combustion products.

Assuming those ratios hold for second-hand tobacco smoke, the toxicity of secondhand vapor is 4% that of secondhand smoke, not 10%, since the former doesn't contain any of the other toxic components of the latter. (Let me know when there's any toxicity data on the non-nicotine additives in vapor cartridges - which should indeed be regulated by the FDA, by the way.)

Well, considering that second-hand smoke kills about 34,000 people per year from heart disease (caused by nicotine), I would think you'd really want to establish a safe level of aerosol nicotine before you let people blow it around in public spaces.


Shouldn't we see chefs around the world dying considering they are inhaling nicotine on a daily basis?

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199308053290619
 
2014-04-29 07:20:16 PM  
I don't really care about e-cigs. But I don't understand the people really into vaping.

You know: the ones with the e-cigs on lanyards around their neck that take them everywhere. Of the other vapers who make it a point to vape wherever they go just to get a reaction. They vape in the store. They vape at their kids hockey games. They vape at the movies. They vape at work. They vape all, the, friggin, time. And they have to tell you all about how great vaping is like they're trying to convince you, as a non-smoker, to start doing it.
 
2014-04-29 07:20:24 PM  

MelGoesOnTour: But you are correct in that if her name was Smith I would not but have said anything other than "What an asshat".  But this is Linda Rosenthal we're talking about---she'll look under a rock and find something to biatch about.


Why would a Rosenthal be more likely to do that?
 
2014-04-29 07:21:07 PM  

clancifer: If it is a bar, let them vape.  At a regular restaurant?  No.


I go to a bar to get hammered, NOT to inhale your "vape". And this goes for you over use aftershave/perfume.
 
2014-04-29 07:21:58 PM  

gadian: pushcart: Would you find fault?
She was adorable and smart and freckled! Even Ulysses lashed to the mast, ears stopped with wax, could not have resisted her.

I would.  You don't keep your tiny, adorable, smart, and freckled women in your pocket.  You get one of those dog bags so they'll have a water bottle and can look around.


I know, right? Here's the thing: I am an androgyne. And I thought: 'oh lord, she is special', and the whole pocket sugar glider/woman notion is offensive. I didn't even suggest it to her because I was bleary. I guess the thing I have to work out is how to want her as a a pocket sugar glider while at the same time regarding her as my equal or superior? Might I more rightfully be her pocket sugar glider? The complicating issue, of course, is whether degrees, aspects, or intervals are valid constructs. One hopes for lucidity.
 
2014-04-29 07:23:12 PM  

MelGoesOnTour: puckrock2000: Meh - anything that cuts down on the number of hipster douchebags is fine with me.

Oh, and -

MelGoesOnTour: "Assemblywoman Linda Rosenthal told the Post, adding that she 'felt nauseous' when an e-cig user expelled vapor in her vicinity."

Figures.

You dropped this:
[1.bp.blogspot.com image 133x255]

A bit sensitive today, are you?

But you are correct in that if her name was Smith I would not but have said anything other than "What an asshat".  But this is Linda Rosenthal we're talking about---she'll look under a rock and find something to biatch about.


I think your mistake was to bold only her last name.
 
2014-04-29 07:23:43 PM  
The self-righteous are out in force in this thread.
 
2014-04-29 07:24:15 PM  
Assemblywoman Linda Rosenthalprobably gets nauseous when her neighbor fires up his grill, fireplace, or wood-stove, and they are all legal..
 
2014-04-29 07:27:05 PM  

stuffy: clancifer: If it is a bar, let them vape.  At a regular restaurant?  No.

I go to a bar to get hammered, NOT to inhale your "vape". And this goes for you over use aftershave/perfume.


But they are totes hot! SMELL THE HOTNESS. SMELL IT!
 
2014-04-29 07:30:54 PM  
 
2014-04-29 07:32:49 PM  
Another vaping thread? Drew must be low on ad views this month.

/vaper
//where it's acceptable to do so anyway
 
2014-04-29 07:33:27 PM  

mjohnson71: I don't really care about e-cigs. But I don't understand the people really into vaping.

You know: the ones with the e-cigs on lanyards around their neck that take them everywhere.


They're addicts. Pure and simple. Deny it though they might.
 
2014-04-29 07:33:39 PM  
Any vapers who may be in this thread and pissed off:  You can thank the asshole minority who enjoyed billowing giant clouds of vapor everywhere they went while exclaiming IT ISNT SMOKE!@!1!1! I CAN DO IT IF I WANT TO!!11!!one!!1!  for this.
 
2014-04-29 07:35:53 PM  

Without Fail: We now have a new technology that allows nicotine addicts the ability to satisfy their cravings without inconveniencing or endangering those around them. So let's do everything we can to discourage smokers from switching to it.

Authoritarian assholes.


This.
 
2014-04-29 07:36:38 PM  

Alonjar: Any vapers who may be in this thread and pissed off:  You can thank the asshole minority who enjoyed billowing giant clouds of vapor everywhere they went while exclaiming IT ISNT SMOKE!@!1!1! I CAN DO IT IF I WANT TO!!11!!one!!1!  for this.


Exactly this. I've vaped in crowds but didn't exhale the vapor, no one even knew I was doing it.
 
2014-04-29 07:44:33 PM  
Nicotine helps me feel relaxed and absorb information quicker. Caffine makes me more awake and productive. When combined, I can focus on one thing for hours straight and not break my concentraion. Any task becomes enjoyable even when people around you become intoleriable. It's a poor mans cocaine.
 
2014-04-29 07:46:14 PM  

LazyMedia: Aigoo: The My Little Pony Killer: robodog: Vaping does NOTHING to harm anyone

Citations, thanks.

/you won't be able to find any because there haven't been any studies done
//derp and double derp on you!

Incorrect. Igor Burstyn, Drexel University. Submitted for peer review: http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2458/14/18/

Shows that e-cigs/vaping poses less risk to public health via "secondhand vaping" than inhaling aerosol air freshener.

Oh, FFS, read your farking links. That study says that e-cigs pose no increased risk of exposure to "contaminants" like formaldehyde. It says nothing about the risk of exposure to THE ACTUAL ACTIVE INGREDIENT in nicotine vaping, which is nicotine, and which causes atherosclerosis regardless of how it's administered.

Current state of knowledge about chemistry of liquids and aerosols associated with electronic cigarettes indicates that there is no evidence that vaping produces inhalable exposures to contaminants of the aerosol that would warrant health concerns by the standards that are used to ensure safety of workplaces.  However, the aerosol generated during vaping as a whole (contaminants  plus declared ingredients) creates personal exposures that would justify surveillance of health among exposed persons in conjunction with investigation of means to keep any adverse health effects as low as reasonably achievable.


I know who you are. Knock it off. You aren't good at using your alts. You have the same MO as your other alt.

In other words, fark off and EABOD.
 
2014-04-29 07:47:04 PM  

itsaidwhat: LZeitgeist: If 'vape smoke' is exhaled water vapor, could it transmit disease from the 'vaper' to the secondhand vapor recipients?

\serious question
\\no snark

There's free vapor that did not make contact with alveoli so no tissue contact and there's the moisture vapor that evaporates off your alveoli and other wet parts. In theory it's just water or volatile compounds. But probably not worse than airborne viruses or bacterium that get ejected in tiny water/spit droplets by coughing sneezing speaking singing laughing etc.


Thank you for the non-snarky answer. I knew there would be a couple in amidst the oncoming snark.

I'm thinking, if I, as a non-vaper, was exhaling so much moisture/breath/etc. from my lungs when I breathe that you cound *see the cloud of it come out of my mouth and nose*, I'd probably get punched for being gross and blowing snot and spittle everywhere.

So I couldn't help but wonder just what *is* in the visible cloud of moisture being exhaled by a vaper?

When one normally aspirates, do they breathe in and out as deeply and at the same capacity as one who is vaping (or smoking, for that matter)?

Just idle questions for the discussion.
 
2014-04-29 07:48:47 PM  
New York, where "Stop liking what i don't like" is the rule of law.
 
2014-04-29 07:54:16 PM  

AliceBToklasLives: MelGoesOnTour: puckrock2000: Meh - anything that cuts down on the number of hipster douchebags is fine with me.

Oh, and -

MelGoesOnTour: "Assemblywoman Linda Rosenthal told the Post, adding that she 'felt nauseous' when an e-cig user expelled vapor in her vicinity."

Figures.

You dropped this:
[1.bp.blogspot.com image 133x255]

A bit sensitive today, are you?

But you are correct in that if her name was Smith I would not but have said anything other than "What an asshat".  But this is Linda Rosenthal we're talking about---she'll look under a rock and find something to biatch about.

I think your mistake was to bold only her last name.


oops.

/By the way, I loved the movie. We still watch it every few years
//yeah, I have it on VHS
///lawn, etc
 
2014-04-29 07:54:21 PM  

DVOM: LazyMedia: About 40 percent of the people who die from smoking-related illnesses die of stroke or heart attack. Nicotine kills.

Nicotine is not what's plugging your arteries.


That's not the issue. Nicotine increases blood pressure and heart rate (increased oxygen demand) while constricting coronary blood vessels (decreased oxygen supply). The risk of heart attack/stroke plummets after quitting. Smoking is the greatest risk factor for heart disease mortality, but in a year or so after quitting the risk is the same as someone who has never smoked.

If the vapor doesn't contain anything else that is toxic, it would be less harmful because of the lack of carbon monoxide, though.
 
2014-04-29 07:54:43 PM  
I'll just light up & vape my 64 oz Big Gulp.


What? I can't do that either?

W.T.F.?
 
2014-04-29 07:55:36 PM  

MelGoesOnTour: "Assemblywoman Linda Rosenthal told the Post, adding that she 'felt nauseous' when an e-cig user expelled vapor in her vicinity."

Figures.


Mel.  Mel Gibson, I take it?
 
2014-04-29 07:56:30 PM  

a21ozcoldcup: Dragonflew: Zeromyhero: Drinkers = awesome
Smokers = whaaaaaambulance

Makes perfect sense.

At least threads like this help us to identify the insufferable douchebags here.

I can't inhale your alcohol from the table next to you. Same applies to children or asthmatics, etc.

Clearly someone wrote before actually thinking about their own question.


Yes you can.

You see, alcohol is actually pretty volatile.  You ARE inhaling alcohol from the table next to you.
 
2014-04-29 07:57:40 PM  
Farking nanny statist busy bodies complain about getting sick from the smell of something that has no odor.  They are so into complaining about something, ANYTHING, that they make up stuff to complain about.
 
2014-04-29 07:57:45 PM  
Booting smokers outside was because of the health risks associated with all the crap in secondhand smoke. Vaping has none of those risks. But asshat anti-smoking people "need to do something" to justify their existence and feed their hate for others.
 
2014-04-29 08:00:37 PM  
ITT: People who 'think' they are better than other people.....

media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com

/getting a ecig soon
//gonna exhale water vapor EVERYWHERE!!!!
 
2014-04-29 08:02:57 PM  

robodog: This is a stupid ruling for public health. Vaping does NOTHING to harm anyone (I'm an asthmatic with an acute sensitivity to most artificial scents and many natural ones and yet having my brothers vape in my enclosed vehicle does nothing, were I not looking at them I wouldn't know they were vaping)


PC LOAD LETTER: I was all for e-cigs until a friend got in our car and "lit" one up. We told him to stop in 20 seconds. I guess that's better than an actual cig, since we would have thrown him out of the car at speed.


Very interdasting
 
2014-04-29 08:07:51 PM  

stuffy: I go to a bar to get hammered, NOT to inhale your "vape". And this goes for you over use aftershave/perfume.


Guess what, asshat. You aren't inhaling anyone's "vape", as it dissipates so quickly it isn't going to make it over to you. And if it's just the odor that offends you? Tough farking shiat. You don't have the right to not be offended. Don't like it? GTFO and go somewhere else, you whiny little biatch.
 
2014-04-29 08:09:17 PM  

Empty H: Without Fail: We now have a new technology that allows nicotine addicts the ability to satisfy their cravings without inconveniencing or endangering those around them. So let's do everything we can to discourage smokers from switching to it.

Authoritarian assholes.

This.


Some politicians here in California have proposed treating ecigs the same as smoking tobacco.  So if you can't smoke, you can't vape.  That would mean I wouldn't be able to vape in my apartment and would have to walk the two blocks to the public sidewalk (large apartment complex) to vape.  I might as well light up a real cigarette if I'm going through that much trouble.  So their plan "for public health" will have the exact opposite results.
 
2014-04-29 08:10:55 PM  

May Cause Drowsiness: DVOM: LazyMedia: About 40 percent of the people who die from smoking-related illnesses die of stroke or heart attack. Nicotine kills.

Nicotine is not what's plugging your arteries.

That's not the issue. Nicotine increases blood pressure and heart rate (increased oxygen demand) while constricting coronary blood vessels (decreased oxygen supply). The risk of heart attack/stroke plummets after quitting. Smoking is the greatest risk factor for heart disease mortality, but in a year or so after quitting the risk is the same as someone who has never smoked.

If the vapor doesn't contain anything else that is toxic, it would be less harmful because of the lack of carbon monoxide, though.



Hey man, you're butting in on  LazyMedia'sconversation!  Did you ask  LazyMedia if that was OK?  You guys should talk offline and decide who's going to handle it.
 
2014-04-29 08:14:50 PM  

noitsnot: May Cause Drowsiness: DVOM: LazyMedia: About 40 percent of the people who die from smoking-related illnesses die of stroke or heart attack. Nicotine kills.

Nicotine is not what's plugging your arteries.

That's not the issue. Nicotine increases blood pressure and heart rate (increased oxygen demand) while constricting coronary blood vessels (decreased oxygen supply). The risk of heart attack/stroke plummets after quitting. Smoking is the greatest risk factor for heart disease mortality, but in a year or so after quitting the risk is the same as someone who has never smoked.

If the vapor doesn't contain anything else that is toxic, it would be less harmful because of the lack of carbon monoxide, though.


Hey man, you're butting in on  LazyMedia'sconversation!  Did you ask  LazyMedia if that was OK?  You guys should talk offline and decide who's going to handle it.

LazyMedia

  has an alt that weighed in on the 370 flight threads and many others. IIRC, the user names were created on the same day last month.
 
2014-04-29 08:22:24 PM  

trappedspirit: robodog: This is a stupid ruling for public health. Vaping does NOTHING to harm anyone (I'm an asthmatic with an acute sensitivity to most artificial scents and many natural ones and yet having my brothers vape in my enclosed vehicle does nothing, were I not looking at them I wouldn't know they were vaping)

PC LOAD LETTER: I was all for e-cigs until a friend got in our car and "lit" one up. We told him to stop in 20 seconds. I guess that's better than an actual cig, since we would have thrown him out of the car at speed.

Very interdasting


I desperately don't care what you think. If you smoke, I am comforted by the almost certain staggeringly horribly health problems you will have. If you don't, then go away.
 
2014-04-29 08:32:46 PM  
just change the formula so that it puts out less "smoke" (propylene glycol is only used for the smoke effect) and use a device that looks nothing like a cigarette -- no one would be the wiser
 
2014-04-29 08:33:04 PM  
doyner:

In cases of legitimate vape, New York has ways of shutting the whole thing down.

I laughed out loud.  Haven't done that to a fark comment in a while.
 
2014-04-29 08:37:52 PM  
I'm a regular tobacco smoker, but I'm not an asshole that refuses to move if someone finds my smoking annoying.  I can understand how people could find vaping annoying, but then again, I get annoyed when someone brings a smelly greek sandwich on the subway, or when someone wears a positively particularly pungent perfume and there's no room on the bus to move away from them.  It's not that the smell is  bad, it's the fact that I have no choice but to smell it.

So yeah, vapers should be considerate of others when smoking in public places.  But we really do not need a  lawto tell them that, any more than we need a law to tell people not to eat smelly food on the subway or wear stinky perfume.  You shouldn't be considerate of others because it's the law, you should do it because you're not a dick.
 
2014-04-29 08:45:16 PM  

PC LOAD LETTER: trappedspirit: robodog: This is a stupid ruling for public health. Vaping does NOTHING to harm anyone (I'm an asthmatic with an acute sensitivity to most artificial scents and many natural ones and yet having my brothers vape in my enclosed vehicle does nothing, were I not looking at them I wouldn't know they were vaping)

PC LOAD LETTER: I was all for e-cigs until a friend got in our car and "lit" one up. We told him to stop in 20 seconds. I guess that's better than an actual cig, since we would have thrown him out of the car at speed.

Very interdasting

I desperately don't care what you think. If you smoke, I am comforted by the almost certain staggeringly horribly health problems you will have. If you don't, then go away.


and there you have just told us you were lying.  Why do I know that because I have also done what robodog was doing and it is very rare that you can smell it at all and if you do it is very subtle.  Secondly the fact you would wish harm on someone for vaping or smoking shows your over the top and I have no doubt would lie to push your agenda.
 
2014-04-29 08:46:55 PM  
I tried vaping for a few months, but couldn't get over the feeling of being water boarded.
 
2014-04-29 09:22:59 PM  
Assemblywoman Linda Rosenthal told the Post, adding that she "felt nauseous" when an e-cig user expelled vapor in her vicinity.

I call bullshiat!

I smoke and I've also used e-cigs, and if they ever invent one that tastes as good as my usual brand of noxious weed, I'd happily switch.

That said, the liquid used in e-cigs does not contain the massive amount of nasty things found in real cigarettes. The 'smoke' is a fast disbursing water vapor. It contains propylene glycol -- what's in anti-freeze and what is also in a surprising amount of the sweetened drinks and snacks you eat, even though knocking back a cup of anti-freeze will kill you.

Nicotine is added in various strengths, extracted and purified from tobacco plants. Then comes whatever flavoring they decide to use. No saltpeter, no nitrates, no wood pulp, acid washed paper, no concentrated nicotine tea and none of the residue created by burning treated leafs with fire.

You'd have to be in a sealed, closed room, rather small, to be disturbed by a person smoking an e-cig.

One more thing, no nicotine residue on anything, like tables, chairs, walls or drapes. The 'smoke' is not really smoke, so it doesn't contain the fine particulates. It doesn't contain bits of carbon and heavy metals.

Actually, you folks that make your own smoked meats at home infect your tasty treats with much more harmful substances from smoldering wood than anything an e-cig provides. Yet, you'll gobble down a ton of that smoked meat without hesitation and folks will walk through the smoke of your smoker and appreciate the aroma, not worried about what the particulate matter in it could do.

I figure folks who were forced to stop smoking and really miss the habit and those who are fanatical about getting rid of real tobacco are mainly pi$$ed off because a similar, safer alternative has popped up and they just don't want anything to do with it.

Kind of like when Near Beer appeared along with non-alcoholic wines. They didn't go over very well and bars charged you almost twice as much for a bottle of fake beer than for the real stuff because you drank less.

Now, alcoholics on the wagon avoid even near beer and such, because they're afraid that the taste will start them drinking again. They even avoid non-alcoholic bars because the scene and ambiance might trigger their desire to guzzle booze by the keg.

Something similar is happening with e-cigs, only, thanks to the massive propaganda of anti-smoking groups, 'smoking' anything even similar is considered bad, evil, nasty, smelly, dirty and disgusting.

(Well, except pot. I've noticed few rabid anti-tobacco groups having a problem with that, even though the smoke produces twice the amount of residue as tobacco does -- an no real research has been done on what effects it has.

Aside from giving a heavy user a similar 'smokers cough'.)

So folks who claim they get 'sick' by being across the room from someone enjoying an e-cig are simply full of shiat -- or so conditioned by the heavily psychologically charged anti-smoking campaign that they've become conditioned to react badly to anything related to tobacco.

I've seen similar reactions based on the 'no hit' policy introduced a couple of decades ago that affect schools and parents.

You need to remember that we learned our trade of propaganda through advertising and war campaigns. We're damn good at it. We hit you where it hurts.
 
2014-04-29 09:25:32 PM  
In case anyone cares to make intelligent, educated opinions, here are a few facts about e-cigs:

- No, e-cigs are not "safe". You ARE inhaling nicotine, which as noted by someone else, does increase the risk of heart disease.

- No, second hand "smoke" from e-cigs is not harmful to others (they may just not like the smell of it) (though my GF loves the smell of my all day vape)..

- Yes, e-cigs have a very high efficacy in helping smokers get off cigarettes.

- Yes, e-cigs have far fewer carcinogens than "analog"

I started smoking a pack a day at 15yo, and I tried just about everything you can imagine to quit; Acupuncture, anti-depressants, "The Mad Russian" (total quackary, snake oil salesman), cold turkey. You name it, I probably tried it. The longest I was ever off cigs was maybe a couple years after I knew I was going to be a father. E-cigs have, thus far, been the most successful. I started out with 24mg of nicotine and after a little over a year, I'm down to 8-12mg in my liquid. Within one month of going to e-cigs, I noticed a dramatic increase in my energy levels and my stamina for things like running up and down stairs. Three years ago, I had a cardio test done, and was told that as a man of 42, I had the lung capacity of 50yo. Well, I began taking part in a study being done in part by BU Medical Center, and earlier this week they checked my lungs and the oxygenation of my blood. Absolutely, across the board normal for a man of my age.

One year, using e-cigs.

In a few weeks I go back for another round, and they're going to take a small sample of lung tissue. I'm very curious to find out about the results.

Also, "intelligence" plays zero role in a person being a smoker, or being an addict to nicotine (or alcohol, or drugs of any sort for that matter), however ignorance is a chosen addiction. Just because you don't "like" something, or you don't "understand" how people could smoke, doesn't grant some mystical moral high ground. Seriously, kudos if you never started smoking and have no addictions (or I should say, no admitted addictions, or no acknowledged). But really, get off the farking cross. We could recycle the wood.
 
2014-04-29 09:35:11 PM  
Wait, you found a way to somewhat circumvent big tobacco? 

Go sit outside.
 
2014-04-29 09:41:25 PM  
Gonna jump on this bandwagon.  While I don't give a fig about people smoking or vaping around me, I will say that many e-juices can be quite pungent.  My husband smokes this crap called Boba's Bounty and it smells like a ferret.
 
2014-04-29 09:44:33 PM  

jabberton: Gonna jump on this bandwagon.  While I don't give a fig about people smoking or vaping around me, I will say that many e-juices can be quite pungent.  My husband smokes this crap called Boba's Bounty and it smells like a ferret.


Then let businesses themselves decide if they want to allow it. Legislating it is authoritarian.

/they can be pretty potent.
//pie flavored? more like burnt pie.
 
2014-04-29 09:47:15 PM  

SpacePirate: jabberton: Gonna jump on this bandwagon.  While I don't give a fig about people smoking or vaping around me, I will say that many e-juices can be quite pungent.  My husband smokes this crap called Boba's Bounty and it smells like a ferret.

Then let businesses themselves decide if they want to allow it. Legislating it is authoritarian.

/they can be pretty potent.
//pie flavored? more like burnt pie.


I'm all for that.
 
2014-04-29 09:51:58 PM  

PC LOAD LETTER: trappedspirit: robodog: This is a stupid ruling for public health. Vaping does NOTHING to harm anyone (I'm an asthmatic with an acute sensitivity to most artificial scents and many natural ones and yet having my brothers vape in my enclosed vehicle does nothing, were I not looking at them I wouldn't know they were vaping)

PC LOAD LETTER: I was all for e-cigs until a friend got in our car and "lit" one up. We told him to stop in 20 seconds. I guess that's better than an actual cig, since we would have thrown him out of the car at speed.

Very interdasting

I desperately don't care what you think. If you smoke, I am comforted by the almost certain staggeringly horribly health problems you will have. If you don't, then go away.


Wow, I post some opposing anecdotal references and someone gets all defensive.
 
2014-04-29 09:54:06 PM  

PC LOAD LETTER: cman: When you are at war you cannot let your enemy have any sort of win

That is why there is a movement against ecigs. Anti-tobacco people can't let smokers get a leg up no matter what the circumstance is.

Nah, it just smells like crap and pisses off people around them. I was all for e-cigs until a friend got in our car and "lit" one up. We told him to stop in 20 seconds. I guess that's better than an actual cig, since we would have thrown him out of the car at speed.

Make your habit not piss off everyone around you and fark up our breathing, and you can do whatever the hell you want.


Water valor posses you off?

Damn, you must be miserable when it rains.
 
2014-04-29 09:55:34 PM  

unchellmatt: - No, second hand "smoke" from e-cigs is not harmful to others (they may just not like the smell of it) (though my GF loves the smell of my all day vape)..


As pointed out earlier, yes it is.

It's less harmful though.

The question of "residue" remains, since the vapor coming out has shiat in it that won't just evaporate, but it also doesn't have a lot of the shiat that's in smoke.

Also, marijuana vapor smells like skunk.  I feel like I'm back at home and the dog just made a new friend when someone is partaking.
 
2014-04-29 10:00:16 PM  
I vape, and enjoy it.  Every day I move further away from ever lighting up again, although I do smoke. Anyway, vapers like myself obviously have a vested interest in the effects of the contents. Look at it this way: if I wanted to know if Obama was a Socialist I wouldn't ask Bill O'Reilly. No, I'd ask Bernie Sanders since he is one. So here is some info I found interesting:

From: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/">http://www.e-ci garette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/ 

Caution: flavourings
Food-grade flavouring compounds are, by definition, not tested for inhalation. There are likely to be health implications resulting from inhalation of some flavours, and right now we do not have a complete list of the problematic ones. At least one is known to be extremely hazardous to the lungs (diacetyl) and there is no reason to suspect it is an isolated case. Because too little is known about this aspect of vaping, ECF cannot advise you in detail on this issue; but we do know that as well as butter-popcorn the creamy, buttery, custard-type flavours will probably entail risk even if diacetyl itself is absent (because this group of flavours has a question mark regarding safety)...lots more info on the site
 
2014-04-29 10:09:39 PM  
Guest:
The vap that comes from e-cigarettes is water vapor with a bit of glycol and many don't contain nicotine.

Really? Then what's the point? Inhaling candy-flavored fog seems a really silly thing for an adult to do.
 
2014-04-29 10:18:52 PM  

Carousel Beast: PC LOAD LETTER: cman: When you are at war you cannot let your enemy have any sort of win

That is why there is a movement against ecigs. Anti-tobacco people can't let smokers get a leg up no matter what the circumstance is.

Nah, it just smells like crap and pisses off people around them. I was all for e-cigs until a friend got in our car and "lit" one up. We told him to stop in 20 seconds. I guess that's better than an actual cig, since we would have thrown him out of the car at speed.

Make your habit not piss off everyone around you and fark up our breathing, and you can do whatever the hell you want.

Water valor posses you off?

Damn, you must be miserable when it rains.


It smells. Badly. Not as bad as cig smoke, but it has a nasty odor. No thanks. I don't need someone's lung nicotine vapor in my lungs. You must be miserable when you smell clean air.
 
2014-04-29 10:31:54 PM  

WTFDYW: LazyMedia: Aigoo: The My Little Pony Killer: robodog: Vaping does NOTHING to harm anyone

Citations, thanks.

/you won't be able to find any because there haven't been any studies done
//derp and double derp on you!

Incorrect. Igor Burstyn, Drexel University. Submitted for peer review: http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2458/14/18/

Shows that e-cigs/vaping poses less risk to public health via "secondhand vaping" than inhaling aerosol air freshener.

Oh, FFS, read your farking links. That study says that e-cigs pose no increased risk of exposure to "contaminants" like formaldehyde. It says nothing about the risk of exposure to THE ACTUAL ACTIVE INGREDIENT in nicotine vaping, which is nicotine, and which causes atherosclerosis regardless of how it's administered.

Current state of knowledge about chemistry of liquids and aerosols associated with electronic cigarettes indicates that there is no evidence that vaping produces inhalable exposures to contaminants of the aerosol that would warrant health concerns by the standards that are used to ensure safety of workplaces.  However, the aerosol generated during vaping as a whole (contaminants  plus declared ingredients) creates personal exposures that would justify surveillance of health among exposed persons in conjunction with investigation of means to keep any adverse health effects as low as reasonably achievable.

I know who you are. Knock it off. You aren't good at using your alts. You have the same MO as your other alt.

In other words, fark off and EABOD.


Well shiat, I was just gonna ignore him/her. You went right to "fark off." Damn.

Let me help cranky alt-person: my roommate is severely asthmatic and allergic to smoke to the point that when I used to smoke actual cigarettes, I would have to change my clothes when I came in the house because it would trigger her asthma and make her sick as hell. A little over a year ago, I switched to e-cigs because she asked me to. I can use an e-cig (mine's a VAMO V3 with a Kanger Protank and juice from a local shop that has four ingredients that I know exactly what the ingredients are) in the house or in her car with the windows rolled up (note: I usually do not use it in the car unless we're on a long trip of over three hours out of common courtesy), and it doesn't bother her at all.

Further, my chest x-ray (I get one annually because I won the genetic jackpot for cancer and heart disease) shows dramatic improvement after one year of using an e-cig versus smoknig two packs a day for over 25 years. My doctor, who has thoroughly researched e-cigs via professional publications, is quite happy with my decision to go to e-cigs.

Nothing personal to those who dislike e-cigs, but I'll trust my doctor's fully informed and well-researched opinion on the matter over yours. Feel free to continue your outlandish hatred over something that has zero impact on you (except to potentially lower your healthcare costs under the Affordable Care Act and via your taxes, given that many veterans and active duty personnel are now going to vaping), but I'd think you'd be better off spending your energies on things that do affect you: strong perfumes, AXE body spray, drunk driving, NSA surveillance, net neutrality, the economy...and any number of actual important issues.
 
2014-04-29 10:50:12 PM  

Rik01: It contains propylene glycol -- what's in anti-freeze and what is also in a surprising amount of the sweetened drinks and snacks you eat, even though knocking back a cup of anti-freeze will kill you.


What's in *some kinds* of antifreeze - most antifreeze that you find contains ethylene glycol.
 
2014-04-29 10:57:51 PM  

LazyMedia: heart attacks linked to smoking (mainly caused by chronic nicotine use) kills about 100,000.


Now go back to the document you linked, and show us specifically where you get "mainly caused by chronic nicotine use".  The word "nicotine" appears exactly once:

In addition, the nicotine in smokeless tobacco may increase the risk for sudden death from a condition where the heart does not beat properly (ventricular arrhythmias)

A ventricular arrhythmia is NOT the same thing as a heart attack, and note the qualified statement "may increase".  Also note that just about any stimulant, like caffeine, has the potential to produce the same effect.
 
2014-04-29 10:59:25 PM  

Hoboclown: Zeromyhero: Drinkers = awesome
Smokers = whaaaaaambulance

Makes perfect sense.

I don't know what bars you hang out at but it's usually not common for drinkers to vomit back out their drinks into other peoples' mouths and nostrils.


You haven't been in some of the biker bars I have then.  There was this place in Tampico, WA I was at one time where this chick...

Know what?  Never mind.  Some things just are best left in the past.
 
2014-04-29 11:05:16 PM  

LazyMedia: Fluid: jbc: Why the hell do you use e-cigs anyway? They don't make you any less of a loser than real smokers; they just make you a battery-powered loser.

Hey, at least it makes you a loser without lung cancer.

Yeah, but if you're vaping nicotine, you still have the same increased risk of heart attack and stroke. Wouldn't want to lose that!


Meh. You're dying too. Pick your poison. Alzheimers. Parkinsons...fractured hip. Urinary tract infection..whatever. Your condescending ass is toast too. Guaranteed. A few more years of catheters in a nursing home. Enjoy!
 
2014-04-29 11:34:10 PM  
I was ok with e-cigs until they came up with the word "vaping".  Now it's just douchebags sucking on plastic dicks.
 
2014-04-29 11:37:16 PM  

Zeromyhero: Drinkers = awesome
Smokers = whaaaaaambulance

Makes perfect sense.

Oh, also legalize weed because reasons.  Smoking other stuff is totally awesome.


i.walmartimages.com
 
2014-04-29 11:40:56 PM  

Hoboclown: Zeromyhero: Drinkers = awesome
Smokers = whaaaaaambulance

Makes perfect sense.

I don't know what bars you hang out at but it's usually not common for drinkers to vomit back out their drinks into other peoples' mouths and nostrils.


It's not?  I must be going to the wrong places.
 
2014-04-29 11:45:07 PM  

LazyMedia: people who start in college are a special kind of stupid.


Most college kids are still kids. Legally, they're adults, but a lot of them still act like teenagers. It takes a few years of *actual* adult life for them to figure the "responsibility/maturity" thing out.
 
2014-04-30 12:09:32 AM  

uber humper: just change the formula so that it puts out less "smoke" (propylene glycol is only used for the smoke effect) and use a device that looks nothing like a cigarette -- no one would be the wiser


Exactly. Mix your own juice and no one will ever know.

Buying juice is a crap shoot. Buy everything you need and flavors if you want them - mix to your own taste and strength. Done.
 
kab
2014-04-30 12:09:57 AM  

BSABSVR: Why is vaping in quotes?


Because it's a retarded catch phrase.

oh_please: This is about people getting a boner from telling others what not to do. Nothing more.


Yep, that's NY for you.
 
2014-04-30 12:11:01 AM  

Elegy: All of which is beside the point. Ecigs don't have to be 100% safe. They only have to be safer than cigarettes for everyone to see a health benefit.


Or people could just stop smoking, then they would see even more of a health benefit.
 
2014-04-30 12:15:09 AM  

kab: Yep, that's NY for you.


Jealous.
 
2014-04-30 12:39:36 AM  

stpauler: I don't hang out with smokers or "vapers", but I walked by a person sneaking a vape in a mall last week. Then I walked by a woman who had just left the Clinique counter. Both offended my nose but nothing I didn't quickly get over.


...and do you have to sit around them for 8+ hours a day, wondering what that shiat they're doing is doing to you?

Some people do.

Plus, you'd have to be an utter moron to think "water vapor" is all they're giving off. Let me clue you in anybody who never got past 2nd grade, WATER VAPOR DOESN'T SMELL, NOR DOES IT AFFECT YOUR NERVOUS SYSTEM.

This also in, water is wet, the sky is blue, and Santa isn't real.
 
2014-04-30 02:45:48 AM  

Cheesehead_Dave: Brick-House: But is it Vape Vape?

You said "vape" twice.


Its not Vape, its non-consensual mist.
 
2014-04-30 03:52:44 AM  

Hoboclown: Zeromyhero: Drinkers = awesome
Smokers = whaaaaaambulance

Makes perfect sense.

I don't know what bars you hang out at but it's usually not common for drinkers to vomit back out their drinks into other peoples' mouths and nostrils.


Just 'vomit'.

Not 'vomit back out'.

And definitely not 'vomit back out their drinks'.
 
2014-04-30 04:15:00 AM  
Came into this thread thinking "vaping" was clever new word for vapid conversation. Disappointed.

Pretty sure the truck tailpipe in my car window at red light today took more years off my life than grape vapours in public places.

Also, can we ban people worth coughs and colds In public please?
 
2014-04-30 05:32:15 AM  

KawhostaYucwy: zarker: If water vapor makes you nauseous you've got bigger problems

It's not just water vapor. With few exceptions, it has lots of other chemicals, including the nicotine that many of us struggled to break our addiction to. Former smokers have a legitimate reason not to want exposure to it.

/ If it's just water, then why can't you refill it at the sink?


You'll probably absorb more nicotine picking up a discarded cigarette butt than shotgunning the exhalation from an e-smoker's mouth.
 
2014-04-30 05:58:13 AM  

KawhostaYucwy: KawhostaYucwy: MagSeven: KawhostaYucwy: zarker: If water vapor makes you nauseous you've got bigger problems

It's not just water vapor. With few exceptions, it has lots of other chemicals, including the nicotine that many of us struggled to break our addiction to. Former smokers have a legitimate reason not to want exposure to it.

/ If it's just water, then why can't you refill it at the sink?

You'll probably absorb more nicotine picking up a discarded cigarette butt than shotgunning the exhalation from an e-smoker's mouth.

There might be more nicotine in a discarded cigarette butt than in e-cig vapor, but a funny thing about lungs... they're designed to absorb. Skin is not. It's a barrier. The lungs absorb a lot more from the environment than skin because that's what they're designed for. Besides, there have been zero studies on the effects of second hand vapor from e-cigs on former smokers. I don't know about other former smokers, but I don't want to be the guinea pig. I'll wait until such studies have been performed before dropping my guard.

Don't get me wrong... I'm an e-cig advocate. I talked my dad into switching to them from cigarettes and he's much healthier for it. But I don't want him to use it near me.


I respect that. I don't smoke anything around anyone who doesn't do the same. I don't mind stepping outside. But as you were saying, I think with anything potential in E-cigs, the smokers lungs will absorb any carcinogens well before they escape in the vapor. But I guess we will see in longer term studies. But again, no problems from me. I still usually go outside just as if I was smoking a regular Camel Light.
 
2014-04-30 07:02:18 AM  

AliceBToklasLives: So can we ban folks from chewing nicotine gum like a cow chewing its cud? I find it offensive.


That is one step closer to banning fat people from places.
 
2014-04-30 09:11:28 AM  

Kuta: robodog: This is a stupid ruling for public health. Vaping does NOTHING to harm anyone (I'm an asthmatic with an acute sensitivity to most artificial scents and many natural ones and yet having my brothers vape in my enclosed vehicle does nothing, were I not looking at them I wouldn't know they were vaping) and by vaping the user either reduces or eliminates their dependence on cigarettes.

So? Vape exhaust still interacts with the public. They can take it outside with the rest of the smokers. Hopefully the vapers will set a good example for the smokers to get off the cancer sticks too.

/next time I see someone vaping, I'm going to walk up and sneeze on them.


Enjoy your cockpunch.
 
2014-04-30 09:13:33 AM  
"The Easy Way To Quit Smoking" - Alan Carr

That did it for me. No urges to smoke at all since I read the book. Coming from 7 or 8 a day. Even while drinking. Truly spectacular.

As for vaping, I think the people who do it end up more addicted to nicotine and the only person I've known who did it often was a pretentious, conceited, ignorant fark. So as far as this is concerned, good.

It's definitely silly to not like a habit peoe have because of one person, but hey, thats just how the world works some days.
 
2014-04-30 09:31:20 AM  
Stopped smoking and started gaping over a month ago and I feel much better. I do it less and less since I don't have such a craving for it. I still don't find it socially acceptable to vape indoors in a public place, though.
 
2014-04-30 09:32:08 AM  
Vaping is what I started. I've been gaping for a long time already.
 
2014-04-30 09:47:04 AM  

AttawaYawattA: Studies are coming out linking the vapor to increased cancer risk.  I know it sucks, but there's no such thing as a free lunch.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/16/business/e-cigarette-study-data-ma y- raise-concerns.html?_r=0


From the article:
While e-cigarette vapor damaged human lung cells that were not modified to have the cancer-related mutations, it did not produce reactions in them associated with cancer, researchers reported. Such mutations, however, are found in some people who are smokers or who have stopped smoking.

In other words they had to mutate the cells being tested before vapor could be shown to cause cancer. However, some people have mutated cells from smoking. How many? Don't know, don't care. I wondered what happened to all those people that used to do second and third hand smoking research.

Studies can be easily skewed. For example studies show: Radon is a leading cause of cancer. Smoking is a leading cause of cancer. Second hand smoke is a leading cause of cancer. Were these studies done the same way as the vape study using mutated cells? When the statistics were tallied, were the homes of people counted as smoking deaths tested for radon? A lot of people hate smoking because some family member died of cancer; if this describes you - do you know if he family member's home was tested for Radon?

Radon causes lung cancer, as does smoking. Interestingly, the CDC doesn't tabulate lung cancer individually. If they did it would be the third highest cause of death among both smokers and non-smokers. Non-smokers are afraid of second hand smoke, when they are much more likely to get cancer from Radon. I don't look at this as being non-smokers fault - politics has been factored into the way the studies have been presented.

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr62/nvsr62_06.pdf

http://www.epa.gov/radon/healthrisks.html#head
 
2014-04-30 09:49:06 AM  

KawhostaYucwy: zarker: If water vapor makes you nauseous you've got bigger problems

It's not just water vapor. With few exceptions, it has lots of other chemicals, including the nicotine that many of us struggled to break our addiction to. Former smokers have a legitimate reason not to want exposure to it.

/ If it's just water, then why can't you refill it at the sink?


So nicotine, PG, VG, and whatever flavoring (Sometimes none)= Lots of other chemicals? I guess your idea of "lots" is vastly different from mine.

Do you know what has "lots" of chemicals?
 
2014-04-30 09:58:03 AM  
Copy & paste from last thread because I don't feel like re-typing


The problem isn't the smell, it is almost non-existent. The problem isn't the second hand toxins, which is also almost non-existent (minute amounts of nicotine that is dissipated instantly, that's it). The problem is uninformed people thinking it is a hazard, and joyless jerks who cannot stand to see someone else doing something they don't understand and/or like. If you seriously have a problem with someone vaping in a social setting YOU are the problem.
 
2014-04-30 10:00:44 AM  
This is why Liberal is a slur in the U.S.

You're making things worse for everybody by both keeping people on cigarettes and tossing fuel to the tea-tard fire.  Unless you want the liberals to be synonymous with know-it-all busybodies for ANOTHER 30 years you're going to have to pull your head out of your asses.  Get over yourselves and do like good liberals are supposed to do, use real data for your decisions instead of the gut feelings and emotive bullying of people that aren't harming you that are teabagger trademark tactics.  Real data is how we've made a comeback, telling people 'that's banned because I don't like it, and you're probably just a bad person anyways' is how we go back to getting all the respect a liberal could expect in the mid 1980s.

Oh, and LazyMedia, you're not a libby-lib Liberal, your a liey-liar authoritarian.  But you know, for the cause!!! so it's okay.  You shortsighted egotists can't see past your own edginess to realize the effect you're having on peoples perception of us.

/every person who is scared off of ecigs as a cure for smoking by you lying authoritarian farks is death on your hands.  you might not admit it but you know deep down that it's true
 
2014-04-30 10:35:09 AM  

neomunk: /every person who is scared off of ecigs as a cure for smoking by you lying authoritarian farks is death on your hands. you might not admit it but you know deep down that it's true


What about every person who didn't smoke, but starts with e-cigs because others are doing it with little restrictions? Do they count as a plus or minus?

If I'm going to tally up this death score I want to make sure the numbers are right.
 
2014-04-30 10:57:40 AM  

Joe USer: neomunk: /every person who is scared off of ecigs as a cure for smoking by you lying authoritarian farks is death on your hands. you might not admit it but you know deep down that it's true

What about every person who didn't smoke, but starts with e-cigs because others are doing it with little restrictions? Do they count as a plus or minus?

If I'm going to tally up this death score I want to make sure the numbers are right.


I have a feeling that if anyone did an actual study into the numbers on both scores they would find the numbers completely skewed in one direction. I am also quite sure you already know which direction that would be.
 
2014-04-30 11:13:25 AM  

chozo13: I have a feeling that if anyone did an actual study into the numbers on both scores they would find the numbers completely skewed in one direction. I am also quite sure you already know which direction that would be.


No, actually I don't. I see teens with e-cigs all the time, I doubt they started with real cigarettes. I have no doubt that a small percentage of them will move on to real cigarettes. I also have no doubt that the majority of them will stick with e-cigarettes.

So, for that number that is greater than zero, do they count as a plus or minus?
 
2014-04-30 11:28:39 AM  
Can't wait for them to ban 4th hand smoke.  That's where someone heard that you smoked a cigarette and now it's giving them the "vapors".
 
2014-04-30 11:35:39 AM  

Joe USer: chozo13: I have a feeling that if anyone did an actual study into the numbers on both scores they would find the numbers completely skewed in one direction. I am also quite sure you already know which direction that would be.

No, actually I don't. I see teens with e-cigs all the time, I doubt they started with real cigarettes. I have no doubt that a small percentage of them will move on to real cigarettes. I also have no doubt that the majority of them will stick with e-cigarettes.

So, for that number that is greater than zero, do they count as a plus or minus?


Well then we can just use your conjecture in place of scientific evidence. Your anecdotal evidence mustbe accurate the world over. So to cancel out your anecdotal evidence here is mine. Everyone I have seen using the e-cigs are people either trying to quit or people trying to get their nicotine without the smell and harmful side effects.
 
2014-04-30 11:49:55 AM  

Polartank13: stpauler: I don't hang out with smokers or "vapers", but I walked by a person sneaking a vape in a mall last week. Then I walked by a woman who had just left the Clinique counter. Both offended my nose but nothing I didn't quickly get over.

Really? Cuz my friends that vape have got some of the nicest smelling flavors. I guess some people vape with essence of skunk's asshole.


I work with a guy that runs his own vape business and even makes his own concoctions of flavors.  One day he brought a bunch of vials in and asked me to smell each of them and rate them.  Watermelon was the best and I would care less if a vaper was blowing that smell my direction.  The worst was this flavor called "The Fidel Special" which was supposed to taste/smell like a cigar.  Two problems with that: 1 - It smelled like a burning asshole and 2 - Smoke a real cigar, don't vape one.  That flavor made me gag that I almost threw up it was that bad.  I told him it was one of the best flavors he had for fans of smoking butthole.
 
2014-04-30 12:01:17 PM  

chozo13: Joe USer: chozo13: I have a feeling that if anyone did an actual study into the numbers on both scores they would find the numbers completely skewed in one direction. I am also quite sure you already know which direction that would be.

No, actually I don't. I see teens with e-cigs all the time, I doubt they started with real cigarettes. I have no doubt that a small percentage of them will move on to real cigarettes. I also have no doubt that the majority of them will stick with e-cigarettes.

So, for that number that is greater than zero, do they count as a plus or minus?

Well then we can just use your conjecture in place of scientific evidence. Your anecdotal evidence mustbe accurate the world over. So to cancel out your anecdotal evidence here is mine. Everyone I have seen using the e-cigs are people either trying to quit or people trying to get their nicotine without the smell and harmful side effects.


So, you agree the number is greater than zero. Thanks for proving my point. Have a nice day.
 
2014-04-30 12:04:24 PM  

Joe USer: chozo13: Joe USer: chozo13: I have a feeling that if anyone did an actual study into the numbers on both scores they would find the numbers completely skewed in one direction. I am also quite sure you already know which direction that would be.

No, actually I don't. I see teens with e-cigs all the time, I doubt they started with real cigarettes. I have no doubt that a small percentage of them will move on to real cigarettes. I also have no doubt that the majority of them will stick with e-cigarettes.

So, for that number that is greater than zero, do they count as a plus or minus?

Well then we can just use your conjecture in place of scientific evidence. Your anecdotal evidence mustbe accurate the world over. So to cancel out your anecdotal evidence here is mine. Everyone I have seen using the e-cigs are people either trying to quit or people trying to get their nicotine without the smell and harmful side effects.

So, you agree the number is greater than zero. Thanks for proving my point. Have a nice day.


Cute
 
2014-04-30 01:08:51 PM  
Oh, vaping has nothing to do with raping vegans ? Who knew...
 
2014-04-30 02:02:46 PM  

mllawso: LazyMedia: people who start in college are a special kind of stupid.

Most college kids are still kids. Legally, they're adults, but a lot of them still act like teenagers. It takes a few years of *actual* adult life for them to figure the "responsibility/maturity" thing out.


If we didn't coddle our teenagers and instead gave them some responsibility, they wouldn't be acting like teens well into their 20's.  There was a time when 18 year olds were considered adults and if you were in college you were referred to as a college man/woman, not a college kid.
 
2014-04-30 06:06:00 PM  

NSFW: If we didn't coddle our teenagers and instead gave them some responsibility, they wouldn't be acting like teens well into their 20's. There was a time when 18 year olds were considered adults and if you were in college you were referred to as a college man/woman, not a college kid.


It's always been an issue of age. There isn't some set age where a person's brain turns from that of an adolescent to one of an adult, although for most people it's the mid twenties. 50-60 years ago we had the hippies, and before that the beatniks. Every generation has its stories of their dumb "college" years.
 
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