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(Fox News)   GOP attacks EPA for relying on "secret science" of data and facts instead of publicly available science like what's in the Bible   (foxnews.com) divider line 162
    More: Asinine, EPA, GOP, Bibles, Gina McCarthy, house science committee, Public Works Committee, David Schweikert, David Vitter  
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7026 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Apr 2014 at 1:20 PM (34 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



162 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2014-04-29 10:49:59 AM  
*clicks link*

Ctrl-F bible

Nothing

Subby's a liar.
 
2014-04-29 11:49:01 AM  
*clicks thread*

Ctrl-F butthurt

Ah, there it is.
 
2014-04-29 11:51:26 AM  
Things aren't secret just because you didn't bother to look for them.
 
2014-04-29 12:20:05 PM  
When the FDA puts out a new regulation, does Vitter also rail against the fact that they don't publish their internal memos discussion the rule change?
 
2014-04-29 12:23:07 PM  
How trite subby
 
2014-04-29 12:25:58 PM  

James!: Things aren't secret just because you didn't bother to look for them.


They do for today's scientifically illiterate lazy voter on the go


/Or something
 
2014-04-29 12:43:52 PM  
I really wish the environmental movement had stuck with fighting pollution and not the fear-mongering "global warming" that gets headlines but gives the naysayers something to argue against. Fighting pollution is something even the scientifically retarded can understand when you frame it as air you can't breathe and rivers that are a fire risk.
 
2014-04-29 12:45:08 PM  
FTFA: Sen. David Vitter, R-La., the ranking member on the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee, criticized McCarthy's speech in a statement to E&E Publishing, accusing her of "doubling down" on secret science.

Holy shiat, I didn't realize this farking guy is still around.  And biatching about doubling down?  The EPA lady should raise the stakes and challenge him to a double diaper down.
 
2014-04-29 12:50:54 PM  
Yes, peer reviewed science is secret only to the folks who don't bother to read the damn papers cited.

Just because you're ignorant and apathetic doesn't mean that everyone else is. I don't know, and I don't care isn't really a defense...
 
2014-04-29 12:53:53 PM  

RTOGUY: I really wish the environmental movement had stuck with fighting pollution and not the fear-mongering "global warming" that gets headlines but gives the naysayers something to argue against. Fighting pollution is something even the scientifically retarded can understand when you frame it as air you can't breathe and rivers that are a fire risk.


I really wish you would educate yourself on both science and the history of the environmental movement before opening your trap on the subject. I also wish for a pony.
 
2014-04-29 12:58:06 PM  
I don't see a correlation between bible thumping congressmen and this epa issue. Climate change? Definately. This is just an example of republican-big energy fellation.
 
2014-04-29 12:59:43 PM  

hubiestubert: Yes, peer reviewed science is secret only to the folks who don't bother to read the damn papers cited.


As long as you have access to those pay-per-word journal archives, right?
 
2014-04-29 01:07:29 PM  

InterruptingQuirk: hubiestubert: Yes, peer reviewed science is secret only to the folks who don't bother to read the damn papers cited.

As long as you have access to those pay-per-word journal archives, right?


...because Senators and Representatives don't have access. Because none of the think tanks ever have access. Because...reasons?

You want to try again?
 
2014-04-29 01:09:20 PM  
Do you pay per word you read or are the journals paying per word for the article?
 
2014-04-29 01:10:22 PM  
I really wish I had the razor-sharp wit of Pocket Ninja.

So...what's this thread about again?
 
2014-04-29 01:14:34 PM  

hubiestubert: InterruptingQuirk: hubiestubert: Yes, peer reviewed science is secret only to the folks who don't bother to read the damn papers cited.

As long as you have access to those pay-per-word journal archives, right?

...because Senators and Representatives don't have access. Because none of the think tanks ever have access. Because...reasons?

You want to try again?


ExCUse me, I thought you were talking about real people like us. Are you real?
 
2014-04-29 01:19:28 PM  
Most regular people dont have the time or knowledge to read and understand scientific studies- that is why we have panels of experts to make recommendations.
 
2014-04-29 01:22:51 PM  

vernonFL: Most regular people dont have the time or knowledge to read and understand scientific studies- that is why we have panels of experts to make recommendations.


Yeah, but I'm too lazy to listen to panels of experts, so I follow a couple of alternative medicine blogs and TiVo "Cosmos".
 
2014-04-29 01:24:17 PM  

James!: Things aren't secret just because you didn't bother to look for them.


Kind of like playing "Peek a Boo" with a baby?
 
2014-04-29 01:25:25 PM  

vernonFL: Most regular people dont have the time or knowledge to read and understand scientific studies- that is why we have panels of experts to make recommendations.


Secret Death Panels of Experts from the UN/NWO if those FW:FW:FW emails are to be believed.
 
2014-04-29 01:25:27 PM  

vernonFL: Most regular people dont have the time or knowledge to read and understand scientific studies- that is why we have panels of experts to make recommendations.


"The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present - and is gravely to be regarded.
Yet, in holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientific-technological elite." President Eisenhower farewell address
 
2014-04-29 01:26:06 PM  

James!: Things aren't secret just because you didn't bother to look for them.


According to the GOP it is.

I see threads all the time with right wingers wrong who basically blame others for their lack of knowledge.
 
2014-04-29 01:26:13 PM  

InterruptingQuirk: hubiestubert: InterruptingQuirk: hubiestubert: Yes, peer reviewed science is secret only to the folks who don't bother to read the damn papers cited.

As long as you have access to those pay-per-word journal archives, right?

...because Senators and Representatives don't have access. Because none of the think tanks ever have access. Because...reasons?

You want to try again?

ExCUse me, I thought you were talking about real people like us. Are you real?


Oddly enough, there ARE journals that you can access information WITHOUT pay for access. I, repeat, you want to try again? The information is out there. It's shared extensively, and you just have to look for it. Our lawmakers HAVE access, and still play the denial game, or worse, cite journals whose peer review is...less than lauded, if not debunked.  And no, there is absolutely no excuse for ignorance in this day and age.
 
2014-04-29 01:26:18 PM  

Evil Mackerel: James!: Things aren't secret just because you didn't bother to look for them.

Kind of like playing "Peek a Boo" with a baby?


"The science doesn't exist... AW THERE IT IS!  The science doesn't exist... THERE IT IS!!"
 
2014-04-29 01:27:09 PM  
You do have to wonder why the EPA refuses to release the raw data...
 
2014-04-29 01:27:37 PM  

vernonFL: Most regular people dont have the time or knowledge to read and understand scientific studies- that is why we have panels of experts to make recommendations.


You mean "Elitists"?

Republicans think anything should be able to be figured out in a couple minutes by a layman. It's because they know so little they think they know so much and others are dumb as they are.
 
2014-04-29 01:27:47 PM  
I think it's bullshiat that they hide all of these "facts" in places no republican could possibly find them...books, schools, libraries...
 
2014-04-29 01:28:13 PM  
In February, Rep. David Schweikert, R-Ariz., introduced legislation that would prohibit the agency from proposing or finalizing rules without first disclosing all "scientific and technical information"

All derp aside.
Why doesn't this happen already?
Why would anyone be against this?
 
2014-04-29 01:29:05 PM  
Gosh darn that EPA and their business-killing regulations! Why can't they take the hands-off approach of China?

i.imgur.com

i.imgur.com

i.imgur.com
 
2014-04-29 01:31:35 PM  

genner: In February, Rep. David Schweikert, R-Ariz., introduced legislation that would prohibit the agency from proposing or finalizing rules without first disclosing all "scientific and technical information"

All derp aside.
Why doesn't this happen already?
Why would anyone be against this?


Because what he's asking for is every note or half finished piece of research produced by any person working on these reports.

Would you want the government to have access to every communication you've ever written or been part of just because you've worked on a report about CO2 levels?
 
2014-04-29 01:32:10 PM  

RTOGUY: I really wish the environmental movement had stuck with fighting pollution and not the fear-mongering "global warming" that gets headlines but gives the naysayers something to argue against. Fighting pollution is something even the scientifically retarded can understand when you frame it as air you can't breathe and rivers that are a fire risk.


They were fighting it just as hard in the 1970s.

/mom worked for the EPA
//or, 'The Devil's Work' as our fundy neighbor used to say
 
2014-04-29 01:33:29 PM  
What they do is skip work for months at a time pretending to be CIA secret agents, but get paid, then come back and just make up the numbers out of thin air.

/Now that is the secret science.

because you can't really do the research when you skip months of work at a time.
 
2014-04-29 01:33:30 PM  
Social cost of carbon is as much a fantasy as the bible. There is a reason the EPA refuses to show their math. It is made up science.
 
2014-04-29 01:33:56 PM  
FFS GOP, just die already. You're too stupid to live.
 
2014-04-29 01:34:35 PM  
All science is "secret" to conservatives.  Science has always been a mystery to them.
 
2014-04-29 01:34:47 PM  

James!: genner: In February, Rep. David Schweikert, R-Ariz., introduced legislation that would prohibit the agency from proposing or finalizing rules without first disclosing all "scientific and technical information"

All derp aside.
Why doesn't this happen already?
Why would anyone be against this?

Because what he's asking for is every note or half finished piece of research produced by any person working on these reports.

Would you want the government to have access to every communication you've ever written or been part of just because you've worked on a report about CO2 levels?


When your hired by the government  to make these reports it seems reasonable that they would have access to all of your work related to said reports.
 
2014-04-29 01:35:03 PM  

hubiestubert: Yes, peer reviewed science is secret only to the folks who don't bother to read the damn papers cited.

Just because you're ignorant and apathetic doesn't mean that everyone else is. I don't know, and I don't care isn't really a defense...


It isn't peer reviewed. Stop with your ignorance. The EPA refuses to release documents on how they derive social costs of carbon. It is about as far from peer reviewed as one can get.
 
2014-04-29 01:35:05 PM  
James!: Things aren't secret just because you didn't bother to look for them.
 
2014-04-29 01:36:38 PM  

hubiestubert: InterruptingQuirk: hubiestubert: InterruptingQuirk: hubiestubert: Yes, peer reviewed science is secret only to the folks who don't bother to read the damn papers cited.

As long as you have access to those pay-per-word journal archives, right?

...because Senators and Representatives don't have access. Because none of the think tanks ever have access. Because...reasons?

You want to try again?

ExCUse me, I thought you were talking about real people like us. Are you real?

Oddly enough, there ARE journals that you can access information WITHOUT pay for access. I, repeat, you want to try again? The information is out there. It's shared extensively, and you just have to look for it. Our lawmakers HAVE access, and still play the denial game, or worse, cite journals whose peer review is...less than lauded, if not debunked.  And no, there is absolutely no excuse for ignorance in this day and age.


Yes, I know about the subscriptions that public libraries have which, by proxy, gives anyone with a library card access to many of those said journals. I'm not defending any politisuits who do as you say, I merely take umbrage with the roadblocks and hoops one must deal with to get to it and the hurdles one must have previously surmounted in life to come close to rendering that technospeak into anything that will register as a cogent idea.
 
2014-04-29 01:37:46 PM  

Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: You do have to wonder why the EPA refuses to release the raw data...


Well, do you want to provide a 50-page paper every time you tell someone not to do something?  Only to have someone scream that because the test resulted in damage 70% of the time you shouldn't be barring something from happening?
 
2014-04-29 01:39:13 PM  

InterruptingQuirk: vernonFL: Most regular people dont have the time or knowledge to read and understand scientific studies- that is why we have panels of experts to make recommendations.

"The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present - and is gravely to be regarded.
Yet, in holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientific-technological elite." President Eisenhower farewell address


"Yabba Dabba Doo" - Fred Flintstone
 
2014-04-29 01:39:27 PM  
"EPA's leadership is willfully ignoring the big picture and defending EPA's practices of using science that is, in fact, secret due to the refusal of the Agency to share the underlying data with Congress and the American public fact that I'm not smart enough to understand it when my aids explain it to me," Vitter said.

Fixed
 
2014-04-29 01:39:52 PM  
$ecret $cience?  There's no such thing.
 
2014-04-29 01:40:32 PM  
Fools! Secret Science IS real because no one knows about it!  If anyone knew about it it would no longer be secret!
 
2014-04-29 01:40:33 PM  

genner: James!: genner: In February, Rep. David Schweikert, R-Ariz., introduced legislation that would prohibit the agency from proposing or finalizing rules without first disclosing all "scientific and technical information"

All derp aside.
Why doesn't this happen already?
Why would anyone be against this?

Because what he's asking for is every note or half finished piece of research produced by any person working on these reports.

Would you want the government to have access to every communication you've ever written or been part of just because you've worked on a report about CO2 levels?

When your hired by the government  to make these reports it seems reasonable that they would have access to all of your work related to said reports.


A) they're often not hired by the government because the government is allowed to cite works they haven't paid to produce, B) define "work related".
 
2014-04-29 01:41:25 PM  

genner: In February, Rep. David Schweikert, R-Ariz., introduced legislation that would prohibit the agency from proposing or finalizing rules without first disclosing all "scientific and technical information"

All derp aside.
Why doesn't this happen already?
Why would anyone be against this?


Because of the R by his name, even if what he proposes is common sense that letter makes it invalid

I have tried to look up the science behind some of the EPA rules and yes the studies they cite either don't exist or are buried behind paywalls that are impenetrable by anyone without a couple thousand they are willing to part with.

/yes for the most part the EPA issues sound, well thought out rules but every once in a while they go off the deep end and wave the "think of the children" flag when someones agenda doesn't fit with the science and they should be called on it when they do
 
2014-04-29 01:41:27 PM  
By the way. Since so many of you seem to be unaware of what the issue is. Obama is using the social cost of carbon to offset regulatory costs in order to avoid legal standards attached to rulemaking. Senators are a skin him to show his work and how he derives the cost. Obama is using imaginary data simply to sidestep regulatory burdens. And all the morons cheer him on for it.
 
2014-04-29 01:41:33 PM  

mike_d85: Dow Jones and the Temple of Doom: You do have to wonder why the EPA refuses to release the raw data...

Well, do you want to provide a 50-page paper every time you tell someone not to do something?  Only to have someone scream that because the test resulted in damage 70% of the time you shouldn't be barring something from happening?


It's not 50 pages of extra work it's 50 pages that exist already anyway. Why hide it? It's not like the EPA isn't getting screamed at anyway.
 
2014-04-29 01:41:34 PM  
The EPA is a credible trustworthy organization that-

John C. Beale, the former EPA official who convinced his bosses, friends and even his wife that he was a CIA spy, was sentenced to 32 months in prison [last December] for defrauding the agency out of nearly $900,000 in unearned pay and bonuses.

Beale, 65, admitted to missing more than 2½ years of work at the EPA over the last decade, during which he claimed to work for the CIA on missions that kept him away from his job as a senior adviser in EPA's Office of Air and Radiation. His lies were uncovered because he continued to receive money for 18 months after his retirement, triggering an investigation by the agency's inspector general's office.


-ahhh, who am I kidding.
 
2014-04-29 01:41:35 PM  
that's the kind of shiat i'd say while poe's law trolling.   They're making it harder and harder :(
 
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