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(The New York Times)   In a move that nobody expected, the NYT calls to forgive $1.2 trillion in student loans   (nytimes.com) divider line 62
    More: Scary  
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8210 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Apr 2014 at 9:03 AM (39 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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2014-04-29 09:07:32 AM  
6 votes:

Honest Bender: How about instead, we cultivate a mindset that you don't HAVE to go to college directly from high school and you don't HAVE to be a full time student for 4 years straight.

Meanwhile, secondary education is free in first-world countries.
2014-04-29 08:57:45 AM  
6 votes:
How about instead, we cultivate a mindset that you don't HAVE to go to college directly from high school and you don't HAVE to be a full time student for 4 years straight.

Encourage people to take a year or so to work after high school, save up some money, and work their way through college part time.  It may take more than 4 years, but students will have considerably less debt, they'll appreciate their education more, and they wont be strapped with crippling debt after graduation.
2014-04-29 09:15:51 AM  
4 votes:

Honest Bender: How about instead, we cultivate a mindset that you don't HAVE to go to college directly from high school and you don't HAVE to be a full time student for 4 years straight.

Encourage people to take a year or so to work after high school, save up some money, and work their way through college part time.  It may take more than 4 years, but students will have considerably less debt, they'll appreciate their education more, and they wont be strapped with crippling debt after graduation.


It's far less likely that people will be able to do that, and graduation rates will plummet.  The percentage of people who actually graduate with their degree going part time to school wile working in their later 20's is pretty terrible.  Those that hold off going to college tend to marry much younger, and put themselves in financial difficulty quickly.  In addition, you're losing a massive portion of prime earning time as an adult if you can't start your career until age 30 because you put off college until your mid 20's, then went part time through your curriculum while working a crap job.

I'm not saying that your idea doesn't have merit, I'm just pointing out that there are some pretty drastic consequences to doing so.  High school curriculum reform would go a long way to ensuring that 18 year olds were mentally and emotionally prepared for college.  And to paraphrase Warren - we should stop looking at students as profit centers.  Most modern countries can get their deserving students through college and on to productive careers without crippling (or often ANY) debt.  Let's go that way.
2014-04-29 09:23:54 AM  
3 votes:
I've got a 6 figure debt, but a good job becuase of them.
I pay them, begrudgingly- but I pay them.

What really bothers me, is the interest rates on the federal loans.  The FED can give huge banks interest free loans, but not the citizens investing in an education.
Wipe out the interst on fed loans, dial back the BS on private loans.  That's how I would start.
2014-04-29 09:20:41 AM  
3 votes:
Let those who go into business or law pay their loans.  Those who are ground-level contributors to society should, after four or five years verifiably working in a high-need social area, should get a large portion of their loan forgiven.  It makes sense.  But the government HAS to follow through.

Virginia has a program that allowed elementary school teachers in impoverished counties to, after five years, get a payoff of 5 to 7,000 dollars on their student loan.  I worked in the area for three years, at which point the state abandoned the program entirely.

Thanks, guys.
2014-04-29 09:20:08 AM  
3 votes:

edmo: We seem to forge foreign aid loans regularly. Can't see why we shouldn't put Americans first once in a while.

I'd rather see free education, but with way tougher standards where we didn't send everyone to college. Make it something you have to work for with entrance exams, etc.

Never happen though: colleges like to make money.


I say make student loans dischargeable in bankruptcy just like most other debt and let the market absorb that however it will. ...but no more special legal protection of the bank's investment. Government grants can be provided to the brightest students from truly poor backgrounds.

If this leads to fewer degrees and more efficient colleges, so much the better.
2014-04-29 09:15:16 AM  
3 votes:
We seem to forge foreign aid loans regularly. Can't see why we shouldn't put Americans first once in a while.

I'd rather see free education, but with way tougher standards where we didn't send everyone to college. Make it something you have to work for with entrance exams, etc.

Never happen though: colleges like to make money.
2014-04-29 09:08:17 AM  
3 votes:
Jesus, is no one going to read the thing?  It's 360 words, none of them calling for loan forgiveness.
2014-04-29 10:13:18 AM  
2 votes:
As an engineer, I'm not that wild about the idea of driving over a bridge that was designed by an engineer that otherwise would have been a journalism major but decided to go into engineering for the money.
2014-04-29 10:02:27 AM  
2 votes:

Tricky Chicken: Ok, somebody map out for me who gets screwed out of money with this plan, and let me know how I can ensoure I am in the group that gets the free money?


Sallie Mae, mostly.

The issue is twofold

1) We aren't teaching teenagers any thing about finance, so they have no idea how a interest works, AND we're telling them they have to go to college or they'll end up in a ditch.

2) Banks will lend students $150,000 to study "undecided" because the student will pay on that loan until they die, and they know it.

So. Three suggestions:

1) Let's teach finance to high school students BEFORE they start looking at colleges, and encourage more students to do part time community college.

2)  Allow student loans to be dischargeable in bankruptcy starting 5 years after graduation.

3) Remove federal funding from any school who's Cohort Default Rate is over 20% for more than 5 years. I'm looking at you, University of Pheonix, with your 37% default rate for the last 15 years.
2014-04-29 09:53:04 AM  
2 votes:

llortcM_yllort: jshine: Thunderpipes: I am a liberal now. I actually firmly believe that a college education should be cheap, and heavily subsidized by the government.

However, I also think that the standards to get into college, and what you go for need to be drastically changed. Political indoctrination needs to be gotten rid of. Stupid majors need to be ditched. College should be for real students, who have real ambition, to train for real jobs.

Trade schools exist already, and they probably don't have liberal arts requirements (no pesky history classes, for instance). They're very practical.

The problem with that is that those jobs pay much less than most jobs that you can get with your degree.  The median wage for most tradesmen are between $40,000-$55,000.  The STARTING wage for people straight out of college is about $45,000.  Right out of the gate, recent grads make more than welders and are breathing down the neck of plumbers and electricians.  Considering we're comparing people just starting out to journeymen, it's easy to see why kids choose to go to college.  It all boils down to money.


Not to mention everyone has a hard on for killing unions and reducing apprenticeships.. trade schools are quickly replacing training you use to get paid to take. When you graduate the wages are less too.

some asshole here goes on the news like once a month biatching about how he can't hire welders etc and no one wants a job. Then he spouts off about his companies training program which involves you paying 10k to go to some shady tech school. When you graduate he gauranguarantees he will hire you foR nine an hour.
2014-04-29 09:38:09 AM  
2 votes:

nekom: That's exactly what I'm in favor of. Make them dischargable in bankruptcy like they used to be.


I think that's trickier than it sounds. The original idea was to make some government money available to poor kids, who had to meet poverty guidelines, because what bank is going to lend money to a kid with nothing who's relatives all have nothing as well? That's a nice idea, and we tried it for about 10 years, and realized in 1975 that we weren't really giving loans at all because too many people were just graduating and defaulting. I don't know why they were defaulting; maybe they all had good reasons. In any case, the question became, "Can we afford to just pay grants for poor kids' educations?" and the answer was no, or at least, maybe we can, but we don't want to.
A lot of student loans just look stupid to begin with. People borrow money to go to third tier law schools. Sure, they graduate, but they'll be lucky to get jobs as lawyers, and even if they do, they aren't going to be making white shoe bucks. And then you have those who borrow money to go to a trade school or the local Juco, and they probably won't graduate in the first place, and even if they do, they'll never make enough money to justify the cost.
Those sorts of loans would never exist if it weren't for government subsidies, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't exist because it isn't that easy to separate the stupid loans from the loans that give some kids a chance to escape the poverty we make for them. And the reason those government subsidies don't look like they cost anything, the reason we can make them without the conservatives trying to snatch them away like food from the mouths of hungry children, is because of complicated budget games that rely on the fact that eventually, the government is going to recover most of the money it guaranteed.
Rather than letting the loans be dischargeable in bankruptcy, I think we should first get rid of the middlemen making the risk free profit, and second, allow for various forms of forgiveness, such as working as a public defender, or a teacher, or whatever job might suck but need doing. We would see a spike in forgiveness, but we would also have something to show for it when the conservatives come a-snatching.
2014-04-29 09:24:49 AM  
2 votes:

Lucky LaRue: DubtodaIll: Lucky LaRue: Hahahaha!  Yeah.. let's forgive the student loans for all those dumb-f*cks who spent $40k / year going to Columbia's School of Journalism so they could take a $30k/year job writing stories about how taxpayers should pay for their bad decision making.

I thought that was the job of the government to make up for people's bad decisions, at least that's all I ever hear out of Democrats.

To be fair, it was under Republican leadership that taxpayers bailed out the banks.


A lot of republicans, like myself, were against it.
2014-04-29 09:23:10 AM  
2 votes:

ArkAngel: nekom: rumpelstiltskin: I read that as a call for higher interest rates, in exchange for slightly less limited consumer protections.

That's exactly what I'm in favor of.  Make them dischargable in bankruptcy like they used to be.  The price of education has been artificially inflated by cheap money, and that is NOT a good thing.

/never had any student loans, thank god
//have seen them hound people forever


The problem with making them dischargeable is that many students (especially today with over inflated tuition) are heavily in debt without a job right after graduation. It will make it much harder to get loans.

What we need is more emphasis on tech schools, higher standards for admission to colleges, and possibly tracked high schools to encourage .

Student loans can be made dischargable only after a certain amount of time has passed since they were incurred (say 7 years) and in circumstances of "significant hardship."  Bankruptcy courts decide level of dischargability/modification on personal debts all the time, so they can certainly handle the "squishiness" that comes with a "significant hardship" standard.  The essential point is that there's no reason to hold a loan over an underemployed person's head indefinitely since that just encourages them to remain underemployed (at least anywhere near the margins).  This will likely reduce access to loan money at least until the dust settles and everyone has a good understanding of what constitutes significant hardship, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.  Less dollars available should lead to lower tuition (or at least a slowing of the rate of increase) overall (even if the elite institutions remain astronomically high.
2014-04-29 09:13:37 AM  
2 votes:

DubtodaIll: Lucky LaRue: Hahahaha!  Yeah.. let's forgive the student loans for all those dumb-f*cks who spent $40k / year going to Columbia's School of Journalism so they could take a $30k/year job writing stories about how taxpayers should pay for their bad decision making.

I thought that was the job of the government to make up for people's bad decisions, at least that's all I ever hear out of Democrats.


To be fair, it was under Republican leadership that taxpayers bailed out the banks.
2014-04-29 09:04:50 AM  
2 votes:

nekom: rumpelstiltskin: I read that as a call for higher interest rates, in exchange for slightly less limited consumer protections.

That's exactly what I'm in favor of.  Make them dischargable in bankruptcy like they used to be.  The price of education has been artificially inflated by cheap money, and that is NOT a good thing.

/never had any student loans, thank god
//have seen them hound people forever


The problem with making them dischargeable is that many students (especially today with over inflated tuition) are heavily in debt without a job right after graduation. It will make it much harder to get loans.

What we need is more emphasis on tech schools, higher standards for admission to colleges, and possibly tracked high schools to encourage .
2014-04-29 08:40:12 AM  
2 votes:

rumpelstiltskin: I read that as a call for higher interest rates, in exchange for slightly less limited consumer protections.


That's exactly what I'm in favor of.  Make them dischargable in bankruptcy like they used to be.  The price of education has been artificially inflated by cheap money, and that is NOT a good thing.

/never had any student loans, thank god
//have seen them hound people forever
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-04-29 08:35:34 AM  
2 votes:
OK, maybe I should have read the artice before commenting. If NYT is calling for prospective changes, requiring new contracts to more explicitly say "by the way, if anything happens you are so screwed", that seems like a good idea. Whether to accelerate the loan on death of a cosigner is simply a tradeoff between interest rate and risk.

We need a general principle of consumer contract law requiring a short summary of all important conditions, and anything in the fine print can only be used to resolve ambiguities in the first page. Like saying the interest rate is relative to prime right up front, and specifying that prime is as published on the Wall Street Journal on the first Monday of each month later.
2014-04-29 02:27:03 PM  
1 votes:

rewind2846: What we need is for employers not to insist on a four year degree for a job shuffling papers and getting coffee.


Employers have too much power, period.
They've managed to offload most of their training costs onto the graduate and the taxpayer. If there isn't a college program churning out the EXACT cog to fit their machine, it's "no qualified applicants" and off to find an H1B they can lord over and pay less, even when the regular wage wouldn't even be enough to pay for the degree they're asking for.
2014-04-29 01:09:46 PM  
1 votes:

Thunderpipes: Khellendros: Thunderpipes: You have tor remember, our "poor" live better than almost everyone in the world. How is our education system unequal? All get the same public school options, poor people get free cash to go to school.

If you believe that, you're clinically insane.

Show me where I am wrong? Must have data. Poor doing bad at school does not mean there is inequality in anything but poor people not trying.



I live in a small affluent town in CT. My kids get unlimited access to computers, equipment, iPads, books, and other supplies at. The class sizes are small and all of the teachers are top notch.

Is it your position that it is the same way in the poorest and most crowded cities in my state? Do you suppose if I walked in to an inner city school I would see comparable class sizes?

Let's see if you are intellectually honest enough to answer.

Maybe the nay sayers are right and you are just a troll after all.
2014-04-29 01:05:04 PM  
1 votes:

Khellendros: It's simple - education shouldn't be set on economies of profit.  If you consider an education a "luxury", you're the problem.  It's not job training, it's not a revenue stream, it's the fundamental way a society advances itself.



THIS


Make people better and the rest will follow. Invest in people!
2014-04-29 12:46:36 PM  
1 votes:

keypusher: drewsclues: all loans 0% interest and repayment of which is in no way tied to credit score. repayment is automatic if you work, it's just garnished from your check, in reasonable amounts for up to 20 years. After that, it's wiped off the books. You can choose to pay it back in full at any time with no penalties.

Why would anyone make that loan?


Government would make that loan in order to ensure an educated workforce. Get the private sector out of it, they've clearly FUBAR'd it
2014-04-29 12:14:57 PM  
1 votes:

hasty ambush: Heraclitus: C'mon, the 1% worked hard to enslave the next generation.

They're not going to let them off the hook that easy!

Yup because the 1% forced them to assume $35k in debt for a degree in puppetry, $105K for a degree in speech and interpersonal communication or $200,000 in debt for a degree in sociology


I believe that would be the exception not the rule.

Are you saying that Americans should not hold a competitive edge in the sciences?

Why do you hate America?
2014-04-29 11:39:34 AM  
1 votes:
all loans 0% interest and repayment of which is in no way tied to credit score. repayment is automatic if you work, it's just garnished from your check, in reasonable amounts for up to 20 years. After that, it's wiped off the books. You can choose to pay it back in full at any time with no penalties.
2014-04-29 11:21:18 AM  
1 votes:

Khellendros: Nearly every other first world country has figured this out. Why must we have such a large population that insists on education being the same as stock options?


America has way too many poor people to be considered a first-world nation.

Oh, and our education system is too unequal as well.

Well, that's a bit of an eyebrow-raising correlation.
2014-04-29 11:20:30 AM  
1 votes:
Largely, college costs have gone up not because it's more expensive to educate students, but because State's have significantly reduced their funding for higher education and Federal loans have replaced Federal grants.

As long as we see higher education as a market commodity and not a public good, I don't know that any meaningful change will come to the system.

/only two years of loans left :D
2014-04-29 11:20:05 AM  
1 votes:

Thunderpipes: Yes, I took philosophy and art, and it was interesting. But ultimately, who gives a crap?


American and Chinese engineers study the same math courses.  American engineering students also need to take philosophy and art classes.  One group is innovative and resourceful, the other group just steals the ideas of the first.  I wonder if their education makes a difference?
2014-04-29 11:18:01 AM  
1 votes:

Spudsy1: Yeah lets teach kids that being irresponsible is a good thing.  Sure I am going to go out and get an education I cannot pay for.  Why not just get a house I cannot afford, while I am at it why not get a car I cannot afford.  Make the American people pay for luxuries I want but cannot afford.  HERE IS A HINT.  YOU are ruining America if you are getting things you cannot afford.


It's simple - education shouldn't be set on economies of profit.  If you consider an education a "luxury", you're the problem.  It's not job training, it's not a revenue stream, it's the fundamental way a society advances itself.  And leaving that to capitalistic drivers is asking for disaster.

Nearly every other first world country has figured this out.  Why must we have such a large population that insists on education being the same as stock options?
2014-04-29 11:08:20 AM  
1 votes:
Education is an investment.  It irks me that I have to pay 8% to finance a graduate degree, all so I can get a better job which will put me in a higher tax bracket.  So I pay interest to the government in order to pay more in taxes to the government.

But how about this, next time the bakers screw up and we need to hand them a trillion bucks, let's horse trade for student loan forgiveness.  They're gonna get the money anyways, let's get at least something for the common man out of it.
2014-04-29 10:49:40 AM  
1 votes:

BgJonson79: Khellendros: BgJonson79: If you're smart enough to get into college, shouldn't you be smart enough to get a job that'll let you pay back your loans without issue?

Again, what's your definition of merit?  Because this statement has no relation to creating a meritocracy.

Intelligence, ability and talent?


Now, go back to the statement you responded to with your meritocracy question.  An intelligent person studying art, history, philosophy, etc, may not be able to get a great job.  But should the cost of that education be so high that pursuit of humanities can ONLY be pursued by idle rich kids, because they can support it?  There's no merit in that.  And it leave the humanities to only those with money, not those with creative ability, talent, or intelligence.

So, in a real meritocracy, even the poor should be able to pursue the humanities if they have the talent and ability to do so, and not be crushed by debt and misery because of it.  Using students as profit centers is a model for intellectual disaster.
2014-04-29 10:32:56 AM  
1 votes:
BgJonson79:

Should social work be a four-year degree?

Yeah, it should.  A bad social worker is worse than no social worker.

Of course most people on here think that being a social worker is a "no brainer" that only requires "common sense", but that's only because they are idiots.
2014-04-29 10:25:39 AM  
1 votes:

hasty ambush: Hollie Maea: SpectroBoy: Thunderpipes: This is beyond stupid. Why should a social worker or school teacher, who doesn't even need college to be honest, get a freebie, while a business owner have to pay the bills?

So your position is that the teachers who teach our children don't need college?

Really?!?

This is Fark. Everyone knows that they only majors that should exist are the ones that lead to very high paying jobs.

Those and others that while not high paying have a tangible benefit to the tax payer are the only ones they should be on the tax payer should be on the hook for.  You want to follow your bliss do it on your dime.


The problem is that a good half of the country consists of idiots who think that things like social workers are useless.
2014-04-29 10:23:36 AM  
1 votes:

llortcM_yllort: jshine: Thunderpipes: I am a liberal now. I actually firmly believe that a college education should be cheap, and heavily subsidized by the government.

However, I also think that the standards to get into college, and what you go for need to be drastically changed. Political indoctrination needs to be gotten rid of. Stupid majors need to be ditched. College should be for real students, who have real ambition, to train for real jobs.

Trade schools exist already, and they probably don't have liberal arts requirements (no pesky history classes, for instance). They're very practical.

The problem with that is that those jobs pay much less than most jobs that you can get with your degree.  The median wage for most tradesmen are between $40,000-$55,000.  The STARTING wage for people straight out of college is about $45,000.  Right out of the gate, recent grads make more than welders and are breathing down the neck of plumbers and electricians.  Considering we're comparing people just starting out to journeymen, it's easy to see why kids choose to go to college.  It all boils down to money.



The changes that Thunderpipes proposed basically amounted to turning universities into trade schools.  Those schools already exist.  If the market has decided that the pay in those professions is where you say it is, then that's just the free market making its decisions.  If having the word "university" appended to the name on the degree (as opposed to the diversified curriculum itself) really is what makes the difference in salary, then there's nothing stopping any school from naming themselves anything they want today.
2014-04-29 10:20:49 AM  
1 votes:

Hollie Maea: SpectroBoy: Thunderpipes: This is beyond stupid. Why should a social worker or school teacher, who doesn't even need college to be honest, get a freebie, while a business owner have to pay the bills?

So your position is that the teachers who teach our children don't need college?

Really?!?

This is Fark. Everyone knows that they only majors that should exist are the ones that lead to very high paying jobs.


Those and others that while not high paying have a tangible benefit to the tax payer are the only ones they should be on the tax payer should be on the hook for.  You want to follow your bliss do it on your dime.
2014-04-29 10:18:35 AM  
1 votes:

Lucky LaRue: I don't think I would want to live in a society so clearly delineated by the haves and the have-nots.


You already are.  It's just those with a college education mortgaged their future to have one in the first place.
2014-04-29 10:15:20 AM  
1 votes:

Hollie Maea: As an engineer, I'm not that wild about the idea of driving over a bridge that was designed by an engineer that otherwise would have been a journalism major but decided to go into engineering for the money.


they still would have to pass the courses.
2014-04-29 10:12:29 AM  
1 votes:

Thunderpipes: Does an economics major need history, sociology, art?


not the art part, but the other two would help a lot!
/B.S. Econ
2014-04-29 10:08:04 AM  
1 votes:

Imperialism: So what do the 20-somethings who actually paid off their student loans ($40k here) get?


Well, you don't get to go through a bankruptcy. Just like the people who's businesses DIDN'T fail, and those people who DIDN'T lose their house.

You also get an economy where people aren't struggling to cover the loan first, and not spending money on anything else, like whatever good or service you provide.
2014-04-29 10:01:56 AM  
1 votes:

Lucky LaRue: Sergeant Grumbles: Oh, it's this thread again.

"If you didn't go into the exact area of STEM I'm thinking of right now, and didn't predict what the market would be doing four years out, you deserve to be mired in debt for the rest of your life."

Each of us has a degree of personal responsibility that we need to own up to.  If you go to school for a psychology degree because you think that is your path to making a good living and (four years and $100k)  later find out you made a bad call, then you need to take responsibility for that and not expect society to give you a free do-over.


Not really. Bankruptcy doesn't work like that for anything else. That's one of the great things about this country. You can try things because if you fail hard enough there is a backstop that let's you reset and try again. Some of the most influential people tried and failed badly, but could go bankrupt and try again. Everyone benefits from that. It is bizarre that in this small instance of education we declare that your bad decision is permanent.
2014-04-29 09:56:30 AM  
1 votes:

Lucky LaRue: Hahahaha!  Yeah.. let's forgive the student loans for all those dumb-f*cks who spent $40k / year going to Columbia's School of Journalism so they could take a $30k/year job writing stories about how taxpayers should pay for their bad decision making.


No, but I would be 100% in favor of ditching the bullshiat contracts that were written during the "privatized" years and setting all existing student loan debt to like a 2% fixed rate and loosen the deferment conditions a bit.
2014-04-29 09:55:12 AM  
1 votes:

ArkAngel: The problem with making them dischargeable is that many students (especially today with over inflated tuition) are heavily in debt without a job right after graduation. It will make it much harder to get loans.


That's a feature, not a bug.

When it becomes harder to get loans, shiatty schools stop selling useless degrees.
2014-04-29 09:54:33 AM  
1 votes:

nekom: rumpelstiltskin: nekom: That's exactly what I'm in favor of. Make them dischargable in bankruptcy like they used to be.

I think that's trickier than it sounds. The original idea was to make some government money available to poor kids, who had to meet poverty guidelines, because what bank is going to lend money to a kid with nothing who's relatives all have nothing as well? That's a nice idea, and we tried it for about 10 years, and realized in 1975 that we weren't really giving loans at all because too many people were just graduating and defaulting. I don't know why they were defaulting; maybe they all had good reasons. In any case, the question became, "Can we afford to just pay grants for poor kids' educations?" and the answer was no, or at least, maybe we can, but we don't want to.

Oh I get that it's tricky, and allowing disadvantaged students to make it to college is a nice goal.  The problem is all that federally backed money has greatly inflated education costs, and they promise kids the moon.  Yeah, I know personal responsibility and all that, but when you sell an 18 year old kid on a masters in cheese appreciation, oh and some extra money for dorm, meals, pizza, books, anything you need!  It's hard to place the blame solely on the kid for making a stupid decision.  So you get a class of people who are just farked six ways from Sunday with a useless degree, 6 figure debt and a collections industry that WILL get as much of that money back as possible.  It's not right.


How about we just let actuaries and accountants do the analysis?  If you are pursuing a degree that has a reasonable chance of allowing you to pay back your loans, then you get a loan.  If, on the other hand, you want a degree in Cheese Appreciation, then you are on your own.
2014-04-29 09:53:30 AM  
1 votes:
Oh, it's this thread again.

"If you didn't go into the exact area of STEM I'm thinking of right now, and didn't predict what the market would be doing four years out, you deserve to be mired in debt for the rest of your life."
2014-04-29 09:51:17 AM  
1 votes:

rumpelstiltskin: nekom: That's exactly what I'm in favor of. Make them dischargable in bankruptcy like they used to be.

I think that's trickier than it sounds. The original idea was to make some government money available to poor kids, who had to meet poverty guidelines, because what bank is going to lend money to a kid with nothing who's relatives all have nothing as well? That's a nice idea, and we tried it for about 10 years, and realized in 1975 that we weren't really giving loans at all because too many people were just graduating and defaulting. I don't know why they were defaulting; maybe they all had good reasons. In any case, the question became, "Can we afford to just pay grants for poor kids' educations?" and the answer was no, or at least, maybe we can, but we don't want to.


Oh I get that it's tricky, and allowing disadvantaged students to make it to college is a nice goal.  The problem is all that federally backed money has greatly inflated education costs, and they promise kids the moon.  Yeah, I know personal responsibility and all that, but when you sell an 18 year old kid on a masters in cheese appreciation, oh and some extra money for dorm, meals, pizza, books, anything you need!  It's hard to place the blame solely on the kid for making a stupid decision.  So you get a class of people who are just farked six ways from Sunday with a useless degree, 6 figure debt and a collections industry that WILL get as much of that money back as possible.  It's not right.
2014-04-29 09:49:56 AM  
1 votes:

tricycleracer: Oliver Twisted: dragonchild: Honest Bender: How about instead, we cultivate a mindset that you don't HAVE to go to college directly from high school and you don't HAVE to be a full time student for 4 years straight.
Meanwhile, secondary education is free in first-world countries.

It's cute how you think "free" works.

A more educated workforce with more disposable income pays for itself in economic activity.


A more accurate statement would be those who are educated in meaningful and needed fields of study which pay well.
2014-04-29 09:47:18 AM  
1 votes:

Oliver Twisted: dragonchild: Honest Bender: How about instead, we cultivate a mindset that you don't HAVE to go to college directly from high school and you don't HAVE to be a full time student for 4 years straight.
Meanwhile, secondary education is free in first-world countries.

It's cute how you think "free" works.


A more educated workforce with more disposable income pays for itself in economic activity.
2014-04-29 09:42:14 AM  
1 votes:
FTFA: Private student loans from banks and other lenders typically come with variable interest rates, which means that borrowers who misunderstand the conditions of the loan can be shocked to find what they owe in the end.


I don't see why anyone who didn't read a contract before signing it is worth discussing. They don't need college anyway to support their McDonalds career.

/Cant fix stupid
2014-04-29 09:41:56 AM  
1 votes:

Lucky LaRue: DubtodaIll: Lucky LaRue: Hahahaha!  Yeah.. let's forgive the student loans for all those dumb-f*cks who spent $40k / year going to Columbia's School of Journalism so they could take a $30k/year job writing stories about how taxpayers should pay for their bad decision making.

I thought that was the job of the government to make up for people's bad decisions, at least that's all I ever hear out of Democrats.

To be fair, it was under Republican leadership that taxpayers bailed out the banks.


What?  When that happened (2008), yes the president was Republican, but both the House and the Senate (and therefore, the majority of power) were both Democrat.
2014-04-29 09:39:15 AM  
1 votes:
C'mon, the 1% worked hard to enslave the next generation.

They're not going to let them off the hook that easy!
2014-04-29 09:31:26 AM  
1 votes:

Thunderpipes: This is beyond stupid. Why should a social worker or school teacher, who doesn't even need college to be honest, get a freebie, while a business owner have to pay the bills?


So your position is that the teachers who teach our children don't need college?

Really?!?
2014-04-29 09:31:08 AM  
1 votes:

nekom: rumpelstiltskin: I read that as a call for higher interest rates, in exchange for slightly less limited consumer protections.

That's exactly what I'm in favor of.  Make them dischargable in bankruptcy like they used to be.  The price of education has been artificially inflated by cheap money, and that is NOT a good thing.

/never had any student loans, thank god
//have seen them hound people forever


No. Convert them to equity. The bank gets 10% of the students salary for the 1st 10 years. If the student gets a good job, great. If he/she gets a bad job, too bad. If he/she doesn't get a job at all, sucks to be the bank. And after 10 years, the whole thing gets written off.

Going to college is a risk; the bank should share it with the student.
2014-04-29 09:30:54 AM  
1 votes:
Hey, you're going to refund all the money *I* paid somewhat recently, right?  Oh, your interest rate is "too high".  My interest rate was maxed or nearly maxed @ 8.25 - 8.5% (until I later consolidated).  Public service forgiveness?  Nope.  Remind me again how horrible it is these days?
2014-04-29 09:28:59 AM  
1 votes:

Honest Bender: How about instead, we cultivate a mindset that you don't HAVE to go to college directly from high school and you don't HAVE to be a full time student for 4 years straight.

Encourage people to take a year or so to work after high school, save up some money, and work their way through college part time.  It may take more than 4 years, but students will have considerably less debt, they'll appreciate their education more, and they wont be strapped with crippling debt after graduation.


Pff, why do that when we could make them even more draconian than they already are.

Upon the age of 18 you are automatically signed up for no less than 80k in school loans that are non-dischargeable, even through service.

Now, I have to go listen to my Dad talk about the good old days of going through the schooling to become a dentist and not pay a dime.
2014-04-29 09:24:58 AM  
1 votes:

hinten: Some of these "students" are actually surprised that when a major piece of collateral (your mother) seizes to exist that the loan might come due immediately?

I suspect these "students" are not learning.


I think you meant "ceases." When mocking "students," I recommend at least picking the correct homonym.
2014-04-29 09:24:15 AM  
1 votes:

dragonchild: Honest Bender: How about instead, we cultivate a mindset that you don't HAVE to go to college directly from high school and you don't HAVE to be a full time student for 4 years straight.
Meanwhile, secondary education is free in first-world countries.


It's cute how you think "free" works.
2014-04-29 09:21:25 AM  
1 votes:
I am a liberal now. I actually firmly believe that a college education should be cheap, and heavily subsidized by the government.

However, I also think that the standards to get into college, and what you go for need to be drastically changed. Political indoctrination needs to be gotten rid of. Stupid majors need to be ditched. College should be for real students, who have real ambition, to train for real jobs.
2014-04-29 09:18:04 AM  
1 votes:
Can we get Debtor's Prisons up and running again? Maybe indentured servitude?

I can imagine a building full of people forced to work for a bank, or maybe they could sell their marker and make'em work as customer service phone reps or something. You know, something useful.
2014-04-29 09:07:42 AM  
1 votes:
I wonder why student loans are not dischargeable in bankruptcy, but home mortgages are not.
2014-04-29 09:06:07 AM  
1 votes:

Lucky LaRue: Hahahaha!  Yeah.. let's forgive the student loans for all those dumb-f*cks who spent $40k / year going to Columbia's School of Journalism so they could take a $30k/year job writing stories about how taxpayers should pay for their bad decision making.


I thought that was the job of the government to make up for people's bad decisions, at least that's all I ever hear out of Democrats.
2014-04-29 09:02:16 AM  
1 votes:
gretachristina.typepad.com

No one expects the Vanished Obligation!
2014-04-29 08:53:07 AM  
1 votes:
Hahahaha!  Yeah.. let's forgive the student loans for all those dumb-f*cks who spent $40k / year going to Columbia's School of Journalism so they could take a $30k/year job writing stories about how taxpayers should pay for their bad decision making.
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-04-29 08:27:24 AM  
1 votes:
We'll forgive your student loans if you join the Army and serve for at least 4 years including tours in Crimea, the Caucasus, Pakistan, and North Korea.

Because my "smite all those bastards who deserve it" policy has been suffering from a lack of manpower.
 
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