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(The New York Times)   In a move that nobody expected, the NYT calls to forgive $1.2 trillion in student loans   (nytimes.com) divider line 224
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8194 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Apr 2014 at 9:03 AM (24 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-29 09:32:44 AM  

Thunderpipes: I am a liberal now. I actually firmly believe that a college education should be cheap, and heavily subsidized by the government.

However, I also think that the standards to get into college, and what you go for need to be drastically changed. Political indoctrination needs to be gotten rid of. Stupid majors need to be ditched. College should be for real students, who have real ambition, to train for real jobs.


As a conservative I say "This^"
 
2014-04-29 09:32:55 AM  
Why don't we scrap the whole idea of paying tuition to an institution, and instead tax graduates 10% of their income for 10 years and pay that to the institution that educated them? No crushing debt if you can't find a job, and schools will have a much stronger incentive to ensure graduates are employable when they leave.
 
2014-04-29 09:33:21 AM  

gochuck: hinten: Some of these "students" are actually surprised that when a major piece of collateral (your mother) seizes to exist that the loan might come due immediately?

I suspect these "students" are not learning.

I think you meant "ceases." When mocking "students," I recommend at least picking the correct homonym.


Ok, you pass the test.
insertIfailpicturehere.jpg
 
2014-04-29 09:33:44 AM  

SpectroBoy: Thunderpipes: This is beyond stupid. Why should a social worker or school teacher, who doesn't even need college to be honest, get a freebie, while a business owner have to pay the bills?

So your position is that the teachers who teach our children don't need college?

Really?!?


I think you're being trolled.  OTH, the lady that cut my hair yesterday was telling me she is homeschooling her child, even though she dropped out of high school and got her GED.
 
2014-04-29 09:35:44 AM  

SpectroBoy: Thunderpipes: This is beyond stupid. Why should a social worker or school teacher, who doesn't even need college to be honest, get a freebie, while a business owner have to pay the bills?

So your position is that the teachers who teach our children don't need college?

Really?!?


Trust me, they do not portray college level knowledge when teaching K-5 grade lessons.

Capo Del Bandito: Thunderpipes: College should be for real students, who have real ambition, to train for real jobs.

That's what trade schools/apprenticeships are for.


Really, that's your stance?  If you want a doc who went to trade school and apprenticed, you go right ahead.  Thunderpipes' point stands.
 
2014-04-29 09:37:13 AM  

pantojar: Jesus, is no one going to read the thing?  It's 360 words, none of them calling for loan forgiveness.


Finally, someone points that out.
 
2014-04-29 09:37:19 AM  

Saiga410: Thunderpipes: I am a liberal now. I actually firmly believe that a college education should be cheap, and heavily subsidized by the government.

However, I also think that the standards to get into college, and what you go for need to be drastically changed. Political indoctrination needs to be gotten rid of. Stupid majors need to be ditched. College should be for real students, who have real ambition, to train for real jobs.

As a conservative I say "This^"


Wait.  You want college to be a place where students train for real jobs?  Isn't that called VoTech?  And, if we get rid of political indoctrination, then what the hell is Bob Jones University and its like going to do?  And while I'm asking questions, what is a "stupid major" and who decides that without coloring the decision process with the political ideology that you seem to want to remove from those universities?
 
2014-04-29 09:37:28 AM  
yeah, subby, the article doesn't say that.
 
2014-04-29 09:38:09 AM  

nekom: That's exactly what I'm in favor of. Make them dischargable in bankruptcy like they used to be.


I think that's trickier than it sounds. The original idea was to make some government money available to poor kids, who had to meet poverty guidelines, because what bank is going to lend money to a kid with nothing who's relatives all have nothing as well? That's a nice idea, and we tried it for about 10 years, and realized in 1975 that we weren't really giving loans at all because too many people were just graduating and defaulting. I don't know why they were defaulting; maybe they all had good reasons. In any case, the question became, "Can we afford to just pay grants for poor kids' educations?" and the answer was no, or at least, maybe we can, but we don't want to.
A lot of student loans just look stupid to begin with. People borrow money to go to third tier law schools. Sure, they graduate, but they'll be lucky to get jobs as lawyers, and even if they do, they aren't going to be making white shoe bucks. And then you have those who borrow money to go to a trade school or the local Juco, and they probably won't graduate in the first place, and even if they do, they'll never make enough money to justify the cost.
Those sorts of loans would never exist if it weren't for government subsidies, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't exist because it isn't that easy to separate the stupid loans from the loans that give some kids a chance to escape the poverty we make for them. And the reason those government subsidies don't look like they cost anything, the reason we can make them without the conservatives trying to snatch them away like food from the mouths of hungry children, is because of complicated budget games that rely on the fact that eventually, the government is going to recover most of the money it guaranteed.
Rather than letting the loans be dischargeable in bankruptcy, I think we should first get rid of the middlemen making the risk free profit, and second, allow for various forms of forgiveness, such as working as a public defender, or a teacher, or whatever job might suck but need doing. We would see a spike in forgiveness, but we would also have something to show for it when the conservatives come a-snatching.
 
2014-04-29 09:39:15 AM  
C'mon, the 1% worked hard to enslave the next generation.

They're not going to let them off the hook that easy!
 
2014-04-29 09:40:39 AM  

Lucky LaRue: Hahahaha!  Yeah.. let's forgive the student loans for all those dumb-f*cks who spent $40k / year going to Columbia's School of Journalism so they could take a $30k/year job writing stories about how taxpayers should pay for their bad decision making.


Seriously.  fark these people.  They are walking proof that a college degree doesn't mean you aren't a dumbass.  Forgiving their debt doesn't make it go away, it means everybody else paid it off for them.
 
2014-04-29 09:41:12 AM  

Pick: I wonder why student loans are not dischargeable in bankruptcy, but home mortgages are not.


Primarily because the banks have a large and well-funded lobby.  They would have received these kinds of protections for other kinds of loans as well, but there are other moneyed interests that rely on relatively loose credit for home purchases.  Periodically this tug of war comes up with credit card debt as well.
 
2014-04-29 09:41:29 AM  

Lucky LaRue: SpectroBoy: Thunderpipes: This is beyond stupid. Why should a social worker or school teacher, who doesn't even need college to be honest, get a freebie, while a business owner have to pay the bills?

So your position is that the teachers who teach our children don't need college?

Really?!?

I think you're being trolled.  OTH, the lady that cut my hair yesterday was telling me she is homeschooling her child, even though she dropped out of high school and got her GED.


My wife has been told by several teachers that she should go back to school and get into teaching, others thought she was a teacher.  I've also met teachers, who were the dumbest people I ever met, I'm still not sure what teachers actually learn in college.
 
2014-04-29 09:41:53 AM  

Lucky LaRue: Saiga410: Thunderpipes: I am a liberal now. I actually firmly believe that a college education should be cheap, and heavily subsidized by the government.

However, I also think that the standards to get into college, and what you go for need to be drastically changed. Political indoctrination needs to be gotten rid of. Stupid majors need to be ditched. College should be for real students, who have real ambition, to train for real jobs.

As a conservative I say "This^"

Wait.  You want college to be a place where students train for real jobs?  Isn't that called VoTech?  And, if we get rid of political indoctrination, then what the hell is Bob Jones University and its like going to do?  And while I'm asking questions, what is a "stupid major" and who decides that without coloring the decision process with the political ideology that you seem to want to remove from those universities?


Meh axe the last line of Pipes statement.  There are some majors that are just dumb.  Kill the few majors that drive no marketable skill nor is challenging enough to prove to prospective employers that you are not a dumbass.
 
2014-04-29 09:41:56 AM  

Lucky LaRue: DubtodaIll: Lucky LaRue: Hahahaha!  Yeah.. let's forgive the student loans for all those dumb-f*cks who spent $40k / year going to Columbia's School of Journalism so they could take a $30k/year job writing stories about how taxpayers should pay for their bad decision making.

I thought that was the job of the government to make up for people's bad decisions, at least that's all I ever hear out of Democrats.

To be fair, it was under Republican leadership that taxpayers bailed out the banks.


What?  When that happened (2008), yes the president was Republican, but both the House and the Senate (and therefore, the majority of power) were both Democrat.
 
2014-04-29 09:42:14 AM  
FTFA: Private student loans from banks and other lenders typically come with variable interest rates, which means that borrowers who misunderstand the conditions of the loan can be shocked to find what they owe in the end.


I don't see why anyone who didn't read a contract before signing it is worth discussing. They don't need college anyway to support their McDonalds career.

/Cant fix stupid
 
2014-04-29 09:45:27 AM  
Here's a novel idea:  Instead of people just assuming they will be going to college right after high school, whether they can afford it or not, how about some more actual planning about it? I mean, if you can't afford it then wait. Or do what I did---go into the service for a couple of years and get the educational bonus (which is pretty high for certain MOS's). After you ETS and get into school, find a part time job to keep somewhat of a cash flow, maybe take out some SMALL loans (and apply for grants) and the next thing you know you'll be graduating with little (if any) debt and still be in your early 20's. It's not difficult...so long as you're willing to do a couple of years with Uncle Sam.

And no whining about "but I'm a pacifist!" because, well,. so the fark what?
 
2014-04-29 09:46:12 AM  

ZAZ: We'll forgive your student loans if you join the Army and serve for at least 4 years including tours in Crimea, the Caucasus, Pakistan, and North Korea.

Because my "smite all those bastards who deserve it" policy has been suffering from a lack of manpower.


I say forgive student loans for those who obtain degrees in and work in field in the US in needed skills areas Medical STEM etc.

FREE Medical education for those who upon obtaining their degree in a needed military medical field serve 5 years in the military

All those with degrees in law, puppetry,  womyn and ethnic studies, holistic interpretive dance,, poly sci, pysch, speech, interpersonal communication, drama, theater etc pay up.

Or serve 4 years community service in Detroit, Appalachians, Compton etc.


No free lunches
 
2014-04-29 09:47:01 AM  

Itstoearly: Lucky LaRue: DubtodaIll: Lucky LaRue: Hahahaha!  Yeah.. let's forgive the student loans for all those dumb-f*cks who spent $40k / year going to Columbia's School of Journalism so they could take a $30k/year job writing stories about how taxpayers should pay for their bad decision making.

I thought that was the job of the government to make up for people's bad decisions, at least that's all I ever hear out of Democrats.

To be fair, it was under Republican leadership that taxpayers bailed out the banks.

What?  When that happened (2008), yes the president was Republican, but both the House and the Senate (and therefore, the majority of power) were both Democrat.


I forgot how he veto'd that
 
2014-04-29 09:47:18 AM  

Oliver Twisted: dragonchild: Honest Bender: How about instead, we cultivate a mindset that you don't HAVE to go to college directly from high school and you don't HAVE to be a full time student for 4 years straight.
Meanwhile, secondary education is free in first-world countries.

It's cute how you think "free" works.


A more educated workforce with more disposable income pays for itself in economic activity.
 
2014-04-29 09:48:10 AM  
First stupidmitter, headline has nothing to do with the article.  Second if the headline were correct, they can do that right after all my loans have been forgiven, cause they are much less than student loans are.
 
2014-04-29 09:48:26 AM  

Honest Bender: How about instead, we cultivate a mindset that you don't HAVE to go to college directly from high school and you don't HAVE to be a full time student for 4 years straight.


THIS

My own view is that we need a lot more short courses (like a year) that give people a foundation in a subject, or work placement. I know there's the whole "broadening of minds", but what employers in a lot of fields want is people with a good grounding. They don't want to spend thousands of pounds training someone how to code who will then leave, but they don't need people with a comp sci degree.

And if you just want to broaden your mind (but don't care about having a certificate saying so), just read books and talk to interesting people.
 
2014-04-29 09:48:27 AM  
single payer system for education!
 
2014-04-29 09:48:39 AM  

jshine: Thunderpipes: I am a liberal now. I actually firmly believe that a college education should be cheap, and heavily subsidized by the government.

However, I also think that the standards to get into college, and what you go for need to be drastically changed. Political indoctrination needs to be gotten rid of. Stupid majors need to be ditched. College should be for real students, who have real ambition, to train for real jobs.

Trade schools exist already, and they probably don't have liberal arts requirements (no pesky history classes, for instance). They're very practical.


The problem with that is that those jobs pay much less than most jobs that you can get with your degree.  The median wage for most tradesmen are between $40,000-$55,000.  The STARTING wage for people straight out of college is about $45,000.  Right out of the gate, recent grads make more than welders and are breathing down the neck of plumbers and electricians.  Considering we're comparing people just starting out to journeymen, it's easy to see why kids choose to go to college.  It all boils down to money.
 
2014-04-29 09:49:56 AM  

tricycleracer: Oliver Twisted: dragonchild: Honest Bender: How about instead, we cultivate a mindset that you don't HAVE to go to college directly from high school and you don't HAVE to be a full time student for 4 years straight.
Meanwhile, secondary education is free in first-world countries.

It's cute how you think "free" works.

A more educated workforce with more disposable income pays for itself in economic activity.


A more accurate statement would be those who are educated in meaningful and needed fields of study which pay well.
 
2014-04-29 09:50:06 AM  

Honest Bender: How about instead, we cultivate a mindset that you don't HAVE to go to college directly from high school and you don't HAVE to be a full time student for 4 years straight.

Encourage people to take a year or so to work after high school, save up some money, and work their way through college part time.  It may take more than 4 years, but students will have considerably less debt, they'll appreciate their education more, and they wont be strapped with crippling debt after graduation.


Every year spent flipping burgers is a year of higher salary lost. And that lost year isn't your entry level shiatty salary year (you'll still get one of those when you finally do start on your career track job, no matter when you start), it's the year just before retirement, when you should have accumulated promotions and raises.
 
2014-04-29 09:51:07 AM  

dragonchild: Honest Bender: How about instead, we cultivate a mindset that you don't HAVE to go to college directly from high school and you don't HAVE to be a full time student for 4 years straight.
Meanwhile, secondary education is free in first-world countries.


It is here, too.  *HIGHER* education still costs, and it should.
 
2014-04-29 09:51:17 AM  

rumpelstiltskin: nekom: That's exactly what I'm in favor of. Make them dischargable in bankruptcy like they used to be.

I think that's trickier than it sounds. The original idea was to make some government money available to poor kids, who had to meet poverty guidelines, because what bank is going to lend money to a kid with nothing who's relatives all have nothing as well? That's a nice idea, and we tried it for about 10 years, and realized in 1975 that we weren't really giving loans at all because too many people were just graduating and defaulting. I don't know why they were defaulting; maybe they all had good reasons. In any case, the question became, "Can we afford to just pay grants for poor kids' educations?" and the answer was no, or at least, maybe we can, but we don't want to.


Oh I get that it's tricky, and allowing disadvantaged students to make it to college is a nice goal.  The problem is all that federally backed money has greatly inflated education costs, and they promise kids the moon.  Yeah, I know personal responsibility and all that, but when you sell an 18 year old kid on a masters in cheese appreciation, oh and some extra money for dorm, meals, pizza, books, anything you need!  It's hard to place the blame solely on the kid for making a stupid decision.  So you get a class of people who are just farked six ways from Sunday with a useless degree, 6 figure debt and a collections industry that WILL get as much of that money back as possible.  It's not right.
 
2014-04-29 09:52:04 AM  

BgJonson79: *HIGHER* education still costs, and it should.


no it shouldn't
 
2014-04-29 09:53:04 AM  

llortcM_yllort: jshine: Thunderpipes: I am a liberal now. I actually firmly believe that a college education should be cheap, and heavily subsidized by the government.

However, I also think that the standards to get into college, and what you go for need to be drastically changed. Political indoctrination needs to be gotten rid of. Stupid majors need to be ditched. College should be for real students, who have real ambition, to train for real jobs.

Trade schools exist already, and they probably don't have liberal arts requirements (no pesky history classes, for instance). They're very practical.

The problem with that is that those jobs pay much less than most jobs that you can get with your degree.  The median wage for most tradesmen are between $40,000-$55,000.  The STARTING wage for people straight out of college is about $45,000.  Right out of the gate, recent grads make more than welders and are breathing down the neck of plumbers and electricians.  Considering we're comparing people just starting out to journeymen, it's easy to see why kids choose to go to college.  It all boils down to money.


Not to mention everyone has a hard on for killing unions and reducing apprenticeships.. trade schools are quickly replacing training you use to get paid to take. When you graduate the wages are less too.

some asshole here goes on the news like once a month biatching about how he can't hire welders etc and no one wants a job. Then he spouts off about his companies training program which involves you paying 10k to go to some shady tech school. When you graduate he gauranguarantees he will hire you foR nine an hour.
 
2014-04-29 09:53:29 AM  

Heraclitus: C'mon, the 1% worked hard to enslave the next generation.

They're not going to let them off the hook that easy!


Yup because the 1% forced them to assume $35k in debt for a degree in puppetry, $105K for a degree in speech and interpersonal communication

or $200,000 in debt for a degree in sociology
 
2014-04-29 09:53:30 AM  
Oh, it's this thread again.

"If you didn't go into the exact area of STEM I'm thinking of right now, and didn't predict what the market would be doing four years out, you deserve to be mired in debt for the rest of your life."
 
2014-04-29 09:54:22 AM  

mr lawson: BgJonson79: *HIGHER* education still costs, and it should.

no it shouldn't


Why not?  If you're smart enough to get into college, shouldn't you be smart enough to figure out a way to pay for it?
 
2014-04-29 09:54:33 AM  

nekom: rumpelstiltskin: nekom: That's exactly what I'm in favor of. Make them dischargable in bankruptcy like they used to be.

I think that's trickier than it sounds. The original idea was to make some government money available to poor kids, who had to meet poverty guidelines, because what bank is going to lend money to a kid with nothing who's relatives all have nothing as well? That's a nice idea, and we tried it for about 10 years, and realized in 1975 that we weren't really giving loans at all because too many people were just graduating and defaulting. I don't know why they were defaulting; maybe they all had good reasons. In any case, the question became, "Can we afford to just pay grants for poor kids' educations?" and the answer was no, or at least, maybe we can, but we don't want to.

Oh I get that it's tricky, and allowing disadvantaged students to make it to college is a nice goal.  The problem is all that federally backed money has greatly inflated education costs, and they promise kids the moon.  Yeah, I know personal responsibility and all that, but when you sell an 18 year old kid on a masters in cheese appreciation, oh and some extra money for dorm, meals, pizza, books, anything you need!  It's hard to place the blame solely on the kid for making a stupid decision.  So you get a class of people who are just farked six ways from Sunday with a useless degree, 6 figure debt and a collections industry that WILL get as much of that money back as possible.  It's not right.


How about we just let actuaries and accountants do the analysis?  If you are pursuing a degree that has a reasonable chance of allowing you to pay back your loans, then you get a loan.  If, on the other hand, you want a degree in Cheese Appreciation, then you are on your own.
 
2014-04-29 09:54:54 AM  

Skirl Hutsenreiter: Every year spent flipping burgers is a year of higher salary lost. And that lost year isn't your entry level shiatty salary year (you'll still get one of those when you finally do start on your career track job, no matter when you start), it's the year just before retirement, when you should have accumulated promotions and raises.


I don't know that I'm qualified to intelligently discuss economic theory, but I've played my fair share of 4x games.  An extra year of earning may or may not offset the cost of your loans, but will it offset the hit to your quality due to having lower effective income for years?
 
2014-04-29 09:55:12 AM  

ArkAngel: The problem with making them dischargeable is that many students (especially today with over inflated tuition) are heavily in debt without a job right after graduation. It will make it much harder to get loans.


That's a feature, not a bug.

When it becomes harder to get loans, shiatty schools stop selling useless degrees.
 
2014-04-29 09:56:00 AM  

mr lawson: BgJonson79: *HIGHER* education still costs, and it should.

no it shouldn't


Exactly why should the tax payers finance somebody getting a degree in holistic interpretive dance or Klingon literature?
 
2014-04-29 09:56:30 AM  

Lucky LaRue: Hahahaha!  Yeah.. let's forgive the student loans for all those dumb-f*cks who spent $40k / year going to Columbia's School of Journalism so they could take a $30k/year job writing stories about how taxpayers should pay for their bad decision making.


No, but I would be 100% in favor of ditching the bullshiat contracts that were written during the "privatized" years and setting all existing student loan debt to like a 2% fixed rate and loosen the deferment conditions a bit.
 
2014-04-29 09:57:16 AM  

Lucky LaRue: nekom: rumpelstiltskin: nekom: That's exactly what I'm in favor of. Make them dischargable in bankruptcy like they used to be.

I think that's trickier than it sounds. The original idea was to make some government money available to poor kids, who had to meet poverty guidelines, because what bank is going to lend money to a kid with nothing who's relatives all have nothing as well? That's a nice idea, and we tried it for about 10 years, and realized in 1975 that we weren't really giving loans at all because too many people were just graduating and defaulting. I don't know why they were defaulting; maybe they all had good reasons. In any case, the question became, "Can we afford to just pay grants for poor kids' educations?" and the answer was no, or at least, maybe we can, but we don't want to.

Oh I get that it's tricky, and allowing disadvantaged students to make it to college is a nice goal.  The problem is all that federally backed money has greatly inflated education costs, and they promise kids the moon.  Yeah, I know personal responsibility and all that, but when you sell an 18 year old kid on a masters in cheese appreciation, oh and some extra money for dorm, meals, pizza, books, anything you need!  It's hard to place the blame solely on the kid for making a stupid decision.  So you get a class of people who are just farked six ways from Sunday with a useless degree, 6 figure debt and a collections industry that WILL get as much of that money back as possible.  It's not right.

How about we just let actuaries and accountants do the analysis?  If you are pursuing a degree that has a reasonable chance of allowing you to pay back your loans, then you get a loan.  If, on the other hand, you want a degree in Cheese Appreciation, then you are on your own.


I'd like to see them link accredidation with income and job placement rates. Your psychology department can't manage to graduate people who can get decent jobs? Guess what you can't receive federal student loans anymore.
 
2014-04-29 09:57:20 AM  

hasty ambush: mr lawson: BgJonson79: *HIGHER* education still costs, and it should.

no it shouldn't

Exactly why should the tax payers finance somebody getting a degree in holistic interpretive dance or Klingon literature?


Why should those be considered higher education? ;-)
 
2014-04-29 09:57:22 AM  

hinten: Some of these "students" are actually surprised that when a major piece of collateral (your mother) seizes to exist that the loan might come due immediately?

I suspect these "students" are not learning.


Right, because it is very likely that a person whose parent dies will be unable to continue paying monthly installments but able to pay the whole amount at once.
 
2014-04-29 09:58:46 AM  
Lucky LaRue:
How about we just let actuaries and accountants do the analysis?  If you are pursuing a degree that has a reasonable chance of allowing you to pay back your loans, then you get a loan.  If, on the other hand, you want a degree in Cheese Appreciation, then you are on your own.

That would be pretty helpful, but as long as they are federally backed, fat chance getting the banks to care about them.  If the banks stood to lose money, they'd definitely do due diligence in making sure it's a degree likely to result in the loan getting paid back.
 
2014-04-29 09:59:14 AM  

Sergeant Grumbles: Oh, it's this thread again.

"If you didn't go into the exact area of STEM I'm thinking of right now, and didn't predict what the market would be doing four years out, you deserve to be mired in debt for the rest of your life."


Each of us has a degree of personal responsibility that we need to own up to.  If you go to school for a psychology degree because you think that is your path to making a good living and (four years and $100k)  later find out you made a bad call, then you need to take responsibility for that and not expect society to give you a free do-over.
 
2014-04-29 09:59:58 AM  

BgJonson79: Why should those be considered higher education? ;-)


correct
 
2014-04-29 10:01:40 AM  
first step is to get rid of federally backed student loans
 
2014-04-29 10:01:56 AM  

Lucky LaRue: Sergeant Grumbles: Oh, it's this thread again.

"If you didn't go into the exact area of STEM I'm thinking of right now, and didn't predict what the market would be doing four years out, you deserve to be mired in debt for the rest of your life."

Each of us has a degree of personal responsibility that we need to own up to.  If you go to school for a psychology degree because you think that is your path to making a good living and (four years and $100k)  later find out you made a bad call, then you need to take responsibility for that and not expect society to give you a free do-over.


Not really. Bankruptcy doesn't work like that for anything else. That's one of the great things about this country. You can try things because if you fail hard enough there is a backstop that let's you reset and try again. Some of the most influential people tried and failed badly, but could go bankrupt and try again. Everyone benefits from that. It is bizarre that in this small instance of education we declare that your bad decision is permanent.
 
2014-04-29 10:02:27 AM  

Tricky Chicken: Ok, somebody map out for me who gets screwed out of money with this plan, and let me know how I can ensoure I am in the group that gets the free money?


Sallie Mae, mostly.

The issue is twofold

1) We aren't teaching teenagers any thing about finance, so they have no idea how a interest works, AND we're telling them they have to go to college or they'll end up in a ditch.

2) Banks will lend students $150,000 to study "undecided" because the student will pay on that loan until they die, and they know it.

So. Three suggestions:

1) Let's teach finance to high school students BEFORE they start looking at colleges, and encourage more students to do part time community college.

2)  Allow student loans to be dischargeable in bankruptcy starting 5 years after graduation.

3) Remove federal funding from any school who's Cohort Default Rate is over 20% for more than 5 years. I'm looking at you, University of Pheonix, with your 37% default rate for the last 15 years.
 
2014-04-29 10:02:29 AM  

Sergeant Grumbles: Oh, it's this thread again.

"If you didn't go into the exact area of STEM I'm thinking of right now, and didn't predict what the market would be doing four years out, you deserve to be mired in debt for the rest of your life."


If you pick a degree that a lot of people have, and up having skills that a lot of people have, doesn't that mean you'll get a job that a lot of people have, and therefore be on the wrong side of the supply/demand ratio when it comes to negotiating salary?
 
2014-04-29 10:03:09 AM  

SpectroBoy: Thunderpipes: This is beyond stupid. Why should a social worker or school teacher, who doesn't even need college to be honest, get a freebie, while a business owner have to pay the bills?

So your position is that the teachers who teach our children don't need college?

Really?!?


This is Fark. Everyone knows that they only majors that should exist are the ones that lead to very high paying jobs.
 
2014-04-29 10:03:28 AM  

NickelP: Lucky LaRue: Sergeant Grumbles: Oh, it's this thread again.

"If you didn't go into the exact area of STEM I'm thinking of right now, and didn't predict what the market would be doing four years out, you deserve to be mired in debt for the rest of your life."

Each of us has a degree of personal responsibility that we need to own up to.  If you go to school for a psychology degree because you think that is your path to making a good living and (four years and $100k)  later find out you made a bad call, then you need to take responsibility for that and not expect society to give you a free do-over.

Not really. Bankruptcy doesn't work like that for anything else. That's one of the great things about this country. You can try things because if you fail hard enough there is a backstop that let's you reset and try again. Some of the most influential people tried and failed badly, but could go bankrupt and try again. Everyone benefits from that. It is bizarre that in this small instance of education we declare that your bad decision is permanent.


When you go bankrupt with other things, there are assets the creditor can get back.  What can they get back for a failed education?
 
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