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(The New York Times)   In a move that nobody expected, the NYT calls to forgive $1.2 trillion in student loans   (nytimes.com) divider line 224
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8201 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Apr 2014 at 9:03 AM (34 weeks ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-04-29 08:27:24 AM  
We'll forgive your student loans if you join the Army and serve for at least 4 years including tours in Crimea, the Caucasus, Pakistan, and North Korea.

Because my "smite all those bastards who deserve it" policy has been suffering from a lack of manpower.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2014-04-29 08:35:34 AM  
OK, maybe I should have read the artice before commenting. If NYT is calling for prospective changes, requiring new contracts to more explicitly say "by the way, if anything happens you are so screwed", that seems like a good idea. Whether to accelerate the loan on death of a cosigner is simply a tradeoff between interest rate and risk.

We need a general principle of consumer contract law requiring a short summary of all important conditions, and anything in the fine print can only be used to resolve ambiguities in the first page. Like saying the interest rate is relative to prime right up front, and specifying that prime is as published on the Wall Street Journal on the first Monday of each month later.
 
2014-04-29 08:37:49 AM  
I read that as a call for higher interest rates, in exchange for slightly less limited consumer protections.
 
2014-04-29 08:38:11 AM  
Good luck with that, kiddos.
 
2014-04-29 08:40:12 AM  

rumpelstiltskin: I read that as a call for higher interest rates, in exchange for slightly less limited consumer protections.


That's exactly what I'm in favor of.  Make them dischargable in bankruptcy like they used to be.  The price of education has been artificially inflated by cheap money, and that is NOT a good thing.

/never had any student loans, thank god
//have seen them hound people forever
 
2014-04-29 08:53:07 AM  
Hahahaha!  Yeah.. let's forgive the student loans for all those dumb-f*cks who spent $40k / year going to Columbia's School of Journalism so they could take a $30k/year job writing stories about how taxpayers should pay for their bad decision making.
 
2014-04-29 08:57:45 AM  
How about instead, we cultivate a mindset that you don't HAVE to go to college directly from high school and you don't HAVE to be a full time student for 4 years straight.

Encourage people to take a year or so to work after high school, save up some money, and work their way through college part time.  It may take more than 4 years, but students will have considerably less debt, they'll appreciate their education more, and they wont be strapped with crippling debt after graduation.
 
2014-04-29 09:02:16 AM  
gretachristina.typepad.com

No one expects the Vanished Obligation!
 
2014-04-29 09:04:50 AM  

nekom: rumpelstiltskin: I read that as a call for higher interest rates, in exchange for slightly less limited consumer protections.

That's exactly what I'm in favor of.  Make them dischargable in bankruptcy like they used to be.  The price of education has been artificially inflated by cheap money, and that is NOT a good thing.

/never had any student loans, thank god
//have seen them hound people forever


The problem with making them dischargeable is that many students (especially today with over inflated tuition) are heavily in debt without a job right after graduation. It will make it much harder to get loans.

What we need is more emphasis on tech schools, higher standards for admission to colleges, and possibly tracked high schools to encourage .
 
2014-04-29 09:06:07 AM  

Lucky LaRue: Hahahaha!  Yeah.. let's forgive the student loans for all those dumb-f*cks who spent $40k / year going to Columbia's School of Journalism so they could take a $30k/year job writing stories about how taxpayers should pay for their bad decision making.


I thought that was the job of the government to make up for people's bad decisions, at least that's all I ever hear out of Democrats.
 
2014-04-29 09:07:32 AM  

Honest Bender: How about instead, we cultivate a mindset that you don't HAVE to go to college directly from high school and you don't HAVE to be a full time student for 4 years straight.

Meanwhile, secondary education is free in first-world countries.
 
2014-04-29 09:07:42 AM  
I wonder why student loans are not dischargeable in bankruptcy, but home mortgages are not.
 
2014-04-29 09:08:17 AM  
Jesus, is no one going to read the thing?  It's 360 words, none of them calling for loan forgiveness.
 
2014-04-29 09:12:58 AM  
whats with the new paywall on the times site?  I can't get to the article.
 
2014-04-29 09:13:37 AM  

DubtodaIll: Lucky LaRue: Hahahaha!  Yeah.. let's forgive the student loans for all those dumb-f*cks who spent $40k / year going to Columbia's School of Journalism so they could take a $30k/year job writing stories about how taxpayers should pay for their bad decision making.

I thought that was the job of the government to make up for people's bad decisions, at least that's all I ever hear out of Democrats.


To be fair, it was under Republican leadership that taxpayers bailed out the banks.
 
2014-04-29 09:14:07 AM  
3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2014-04-29 09:15:16 AM  
We seem to forge foreign aid loans regularly. Can't see why we shouldn't put Americans first once in a while.

I'd rather see free education, but with way tougher standards where we didn't send everyone to college. Make it something you have to work for with entrance exams, etc.

Never happen though: colleges like to make money.
 
2014-04-29 09:15:51 AM  

Honest Bender: How about instead, we cultivate a mindset that you don't HAVE to go to college directly from high school and you don't HAVE to be a full time student for 4 years straight.

Encourage people to take a year or so to work after high school, save up some money, and work their way through college part time.  It may take more than 4 years, but students will have considerably less debt, they'll appreciate their education more, and they wont be strapped with crippling debt after graduation.


It's far less likely that people will be able to do that, and graduation rates will plummet.  The percentage of people who actually graduate with their degree going part time to school wile working in their later 20's is pretty terrible.  Those that hold off going to college tend to marry much younger, and put themselves in financial difficulty quickly.  In addition, you're losing a massive portion of prime earning time as an adult if you can't start your career until age 30 because you put off college until your mid 20's, then went part time through your curriculum while working a crap job.

I'm not saying that your idea doesn't have merit, I'm just pointing out that there are some pretty drastic consequences to doing so.  High school curriculum reform would go a long way to ensuring that 18 year olds were mentally and emotionally prepared for college.  And to paraphrase Warren - we should stop looking at students as profit centers.  Most modern countries can get their deserving students through college and on to productive careers without crippling (or often ANY) debt.  Let's go that way.
 
2014-04-29 09:15:52 AM  

Lucky LaRue: DubtodaIll: Lucky LaRue: Hahahaha!  Yeah.. let's forgive the student loans for all those dumb-f*cks who spent $40k / year going to Columbia's School of Journalism so they could take a $30k/year job writing stories about how taxpayers should pay for their bad decision making.

I thought that was the job of the government to make up for people's bad decisions, at least that's all I ever hear out of Democrats.

To be fair, it was under Republican leadership that taxpayers bailed out the banks.


Indeed; the abdication of personal responsibility for personal choices is not a partisan issue.
 
2014-04-29 09:15:53 AM  

dragonchild: Honest Bender: How about instead, we cultivate a mindset that you don't HAVE to go to college directly from high school and you don't HAVE to be a full time student for 4 years straight.
Meanwhile, secondary education is free in first-world countries.


Perhaps for the end user.
 
2014-04-29 09:17:00 AM  

Honest Bender: How about instead, we cultivate a mindset that you don't HAVE to go to college directly from high school and you don't HAVE to be a full time student for 4 years straight.

Encourage people to take a year or so to work after high school, save up some money, and work their way through college part time.  It may take more than 4 years, but students will have considerably less debt, they'll appreciate their education more, and they wont be strapped with crippling debt after graduation.


Let's add to that "If you don't have much money you need to pick a cheaper school"
 
2014-04-29 09:17:14 AM  
Some of these "students" are actually surprised that when a major piece of collateral (your mother) seizes to exist that the loan might come due immediately?

I suspect these "students" are not learning.
 
2014-04-29 09:18:04 AM  
Can we get Debtor's Prisons up and running again? Maybe indentured servitude?

I can imagine a building full of people forced to work for a bank, or maybe they could sell their marker and make'em work as customer service phone reps or something. You know, something useful.
 
2014-04-29 09:19:53 AM  

ZAZ: We'll forgive your student loans if you join the Army and serve for at least 4 years including tours in Crimea, the Caucasus, Pakistan, and North Korea.

Because my "smite all those bastards who deserve it" policy has been suffering from a lack of manpower.


Already did 24 years, so can I get my mortgage forgiven?
 
2014-04-29 09:20:02 AM  
Ok, somebody map out for me who gets screwed out of money with this plan, and let me know how I can ensoure I am in the group that gets the free money?
 
2014-04-29 09:20:08 AM  

edmo: We seem to forge foreign aid loans regularly. Can't see why we shouldn't put Americans first once in a while.

I'd rather see free education, but with way tougher standards where we didn't send everyone to college. Make it something you have to work for with entrance exams, etc.

Never happen though: colleges like to make money.


I say make student loans dischargeable in bankruptcy just like most other debt and let the market absorb that however it will. ...but no more special legal protection of the bank's investment. Government grants can be provided to the brightest students from truly poor backgrounds.

If this leads to fewer degrees and more efficient colleges, so much the better.
 
2014-04-29 09:20:41 AM  
Let those who go into business or law pay their loans.  Those who are ground-level contributors to society should, after four or five years verifiably working in a high-need social area, should get a large portion of their loan forgiven.  It makes sense.  But the government HAS to follow through.

Virginia has a program that allowed elementary school teachers in impoverished counties to, after five years, get a payoff of 5 to 7,000 dollars on their student loan.  I worked in the area for three years, at which point the state abandoned the program entirely.

Thanks, guys.
 
2014-04-29 09:21:25 AM  
I am a liberal now. I actually firmly believe that a college education should be cheap, and heavily subsidized by the government.

However, I also think that the standards to get into college, and what you go for need to be drastically changed. Political indoctrination needs to be gotten rid of. Stupid majors need to be ditched. College should be for real students, who have real ambition, to train for real jobs.
 
2014-04-29 09:23:10 AM  

ArkAngel: nekom: rumpelstiltskin: I read that as a call for higher interest rates, in exchange for slightly less limited consumer protections.

That's exactly what I'm in favor of.  Make them dischargable in bankruptcy like they used to be.  The price of education has been artificially inflated by cheap money, and that is NOT a good thing.

/never had any student loans, thank god
//have seen them hound people forever


The problem with making them dischargeable is that many students (especially today with over inflated tuition) are heavily in debt without a job right after graduation. It will make it much harder to get loans.

What we need is more emphasis on tech schools, higher standards for admission to colleges, and possibly tracked high schools to encourage .

Student loans can be made dischargable only after a certain amount of time has passed since they were incurred (say 7 years) and in circumstances of "significant hardship."  Bankruptcy courts decide level of dischargability/modification on personal debts all the time, so they can certainly handle the "squishiness" that comes with a "significant hardship" standard.  The essential point is that there's no reason to hold a loan over an underemployed person's head indefinitely since that just encourages them to remain underemployed (at least anywhere near the margins).  This will likely reduce access to loan money at least until the dust settles and everyone has a good understanding of what constitutes significant hardship, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.  Less dollars available should lead to lower tuition (or at least a slowing of the rate of increase) overall (even if the elite institutions remain astronomically high.
 
2014-04-29 09:23:54 AM  
I've got a 6 figure debt, but a good job becuase of them.
I pay them, begrudgingly- but I pay them.

What really bothers me, is the interest rates on the federal loans.  The FED can give huge banks interest free loans, but not the citizens investing in an education.
Wipe out the interst on fed loans, dial back the BS on private loans.  That's how I would start.
 
2014-04-29 09:24:06 AM  

Thunderpipes: I am a liberal now. I actually firmly believe that a college education should be cheap, and heavily subsidized by the government.

However, I also think that the standards to get into college, and what you go for need to be drastically changed. Political indoctrination needs to be gotten rid of. Stupid majors need to be ditched. College should be for real students, who have real ambition, to train for real jobs.


Trade schools exist already, and they probably don't have liberal arts requirements (no pesky history classes, for instance). They're very practical.
 
2014-04-29 09:24:15 AM  

dragonchild: Honest Bender: How about instead, we cultivate a mindset that you don't HAVE to go to college directly from high school and you don't HAVE to be a full time student for 4 years straight.
Meanwhile, secondary education is free in first-world countries.


It's cute how you think "free" works.
 
2014-04-29 09:24:49 AM  

Lucky LaRue: DubtodaIll: Lucky LaRue: Hahahaha!  Yeah.. let's forgive the student loans for all those dumb-f*cks who spent $40k / year going to Columbia's School of Journalism so they could take a $30k/year job writing stories about how taxpayers should pay for their bad decision making.

I thought that was the job of the government to make up for people's bad decisions, at least that's all I ever hear out of Democrats.

To be fair, it was under Republican leadership that taxpayers bailed out the banks.


A lot of republicans, like myself, were against it.
 
2014-04-29 09:24:51 AM  

Pick: I wonder why student loans are not dischargeable in bankruptcy, but home mortgages are not.


The house can be sold to recoup some of the debt, where how do you return the knowledge placed in your head?  My bro is losing his house as part of bankruptcy, are the college grads willing to give back the degrees?
 
2014-04-29 09:24:58 AM  

hinten: Some of these "students" are actually surprised that when a major piece of collateral (your mother) seizes to exist that the loan might come due immediately?

I suspect these "students" are not learning.


I think you meant "ceases." When mocking "students," I recommend at least picking the correct homonym.
 
2014-04-29 09:25:21 AM  

Thunderpipes: I am a liberal now. I actually firmly believe that a college education should be cheap, and heavily subsidized by the government.

However, I also think that the standards to get into college, and what you go for need to be drastically changed. Political indoctrination needs to be gotten rid of. Stupid majors need to be ditched. College should be for real students, who have real ambition, to train for real jobs.


I'd subscribe to your newsletter.
 
2014-04-29 09:25:21 AM  

whizbangthedirtfarmer: Let those who go into business or law pay their loans.  Those who are ground-level contributors to society should, after four or five years verifiably working in a high-need social area, should get a large portion of their loan forgiven.  It makes sense.  But the government HAS to follow through.

Virginia has a program that allowed elementary school teachers in impoverished counties to, after five years, get a payoff of 5 to 7,000 dollars on their student loan.  I worked in the area for three years, at which point the state abandoned the program entirely.

Thanks, guys.


This is beyond stupid. Why should a social worker or school teacher, who doesn't even need college to be honest, get a freebie, while a business owner have to pay the bills? That program you point out, gives taxpayer money, to people who will ultimately get a taxpayer pension, why are they more deserving? Education majors statistically do much worse in college as well.
 
2014-04-29 09:25:37 AM  

Thunderpipes: I am a liberal now. I actually firmly believe that a college education should be cheap, and heavily subsidized by the government.

However, I also think that the standards to get into college, and what you go for need to be drastically changed. Political indoctrination needs to be gotten rid of. Stupid majors need to be ditched. College should be for real students, who have real ambition, to train for real jobs.


You sound lucid to me. Nurse, release this inpatient.
 
2014-04-29 09:26:09 AM  

Unemployedingreenland: ArkAngel: nekom: rumpelstiltskin: I read that as a call for higher interest rates, in exchange for slightly less limited consumer protections.

That's exactly what I'm in favor of.  Make them dischargable in bankruptcy like they used to be.  The price of education has been artificially inflated by cheap money, and that is NOT a good thing.

/never had any student loans, thank god
//have seen them hound people forever

The problem with making them dischargeable is that many students (especially today with over inflated tuition) are heavily in debt without a job right after graduation. It will make it much harder to get loans.

What we need is more emphasis on tech schools, higher standards for admission to colleges, and possibly tracked high schools to encourage .

Student loans can be made dischargable only after a certain amount of time has passed since they were incurred (say 7 years) and in circumstances of "significant hardship."  Bankruptcy courts decide level of dischargability/modification on personal debts all the time, so they can certainly handle the "squishiness" that comes with a "significant hardship" standard.  The essential point is that there's no reason to hold a loan over an underemployed person's head indefinitely since that just encourages them to remain underemployed (at least anywhere near the margins).  This will likely reduce access to loan money at least until the dust settles and everyone has a good understanding of what constitutes significant hardship, but that's not necessarily a bad thing.  Less dollars available should lead to lower tuition (or at least a slowing of the rate of increase) overall (even if the elite institutions remain astronomically high.


If students are so heavily in debt, maybe making huge loans harder to get is actually a *good thing*.
 
2014-04-29 09:26:19 AM  

Lucky LaRue: DubtodaIll: Lucky LaRue: Hahahaha!  Yeah.. let's forgive the student loans for all those dumb-f*cks who spent $40k / year going to Columbia's School of Journalism so they could take a $30k/year job writing stories about how taxpayers should pay for their bad decision making.

I thought that was the job of the government to make up for people's bad decisions, at least that's all I ever hear out of Democrats.

To be fair, it was under Republican leadership that taxpayers bailed out the banks.


To be even more fair, it was under a Republican President and a Democratic Party controlled House and Senate.
 
2014-04-29 09:28:59 AM  

Honest Bender: How about instead, we cultivate a mindset that you don't HAVE to go to college directly from high school and you don't HAVE to be a full time student for 4 years straight.

Encourage people to take a year or so to work after high school, save up some money, and work their way through college part time.  It may take more than 4 years, but students will have considerably less debt, they'll appreciate their education more, and they wont be strapped with crippling debt after graduation.


Pff, why do that when we could make them even more draconian than they already are.

Upon the age of 18 you are automatically signed up for no less than 80k in school loans that are non-dischargeable, even through service.

Now, I have to go listen to my Dad talk about the good old days of going through the schooling to become a dentist and not pay a dime.
 
2014-04-29 09:29:00 AM  
Yeah, because there is nothing we need more than yet another giant act to reinforce the notion that irresponsible behavior never eventually results in negative consequences.

Lost your job because you are loser, here, have 99999 weeks of unemployment.

Did something astonishingly stupid and hurt yourself, here have payments for your idiocy.

Murderer, here have cable tv and a basketball court.

Personal responsibility for the extinction!!
 
2014-04-29 09:29:27 AM  

Thunderpipes: I am a liberal now. I actually firmly believe that a college education should be cheap, and heavily subsidized by the government.

However, I also think that the standards to get into college, and what you go for need to be drastically changed. Political indoctrination needs to be gotten rid of. Stupid majors need to be ditched. College should be for real students, who have real ambition, to train for real jobs.


By political indoctrination do you perchance mean "Exposure to reality?"  I know how that stuff annoys you.

And stupid majors? Are you to decide which areas of learning are "worthy"?

If college was only meant to train you for a job it would be a trade school. NTTAWWT
 
2014-04-29 09:30:33 AM  
Ctrl-f "forgive"

Hmm. Fark must have linked to the wrong article?
 
2014-04-29 09:30:54 AM  
Hey, you're going to refund all the money *I* paid somewhat recently, right?  Oh, your interest rate is "too high".  My interest rate was maxed or nearly maxed @ 8.25 - 8.5% (until I later consolidated).  Public service forgiveness?  Nope.  Remind me again how horrible it is these days?
 
2014-04-29 09:31:08 AM  

nekom: rumpelstiltskin: I read that as a call for higher interest rates, in exchange for slightly less limited consumer protections.

That's exactly what I'm in favor of.  Make them dischargable in bankruptcy like they used to be.  The price of education has been artificially inflated by cheap money, and that is NOT a good thing.

/never had any student loans, thank god
//have seen them hound people forever


No. Convert them to equity. The bank gets 10% of the students salary for the 1st 10 years. If the student gets a good job, great. If he/she gets a bad job, too bad. If he/she doesn't get a job at all, sucks to be the bank. And after 10 years, the whole thing gets written off.

Going to college is a risk; the bank should share it with the student.
 
2014-04-29 09:31:26 AM  

Thunderpipes: This is beyond stupid. Why should a social worker or school teacher, who doesn't even need college to be honest, get a freebie, while a business owner have to pay the bills?


So your position is that the teachers who teach our children don't need college?

Really?!?
 
2014-04-29 09:31:30 AM  
Unemployedingreenland:
Student loans can be made dischargable only after a certain amount of time has passed since they were incurred (say 7 years) and in circumstances of "significant hardship."  Bankruptcy courts decide level of dischargability/modification on personal debts all the time, so they can certainly handle the "squishiness" that comes with a "significant hardship" standard.

Student loan debts can be discharged (without a bankruptcy too) but it is EXTREMELY difficult.  You basically have to prove that not only are you destitute, but you will absolutely always remain so no matter what you do.  They are nearly IMPOSSIBLE to shake since the changes in the 90s.
 
2014-04-29 09:31:41 AM  
I just read the article through twice and didn't see it call anywhere for loan forgiveness.

So either I have reading comprehension issues, or subby does.
 
2014-04-29 09:31:46 AM  

Thunderpipes: College should be for real students, who have real ambition, to train for real jobs.


That's what trade schools/apprenticeships are for.
 
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