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(Marine Corps Times)   The Pentagon is set to destroy over $1 billion worth of ammunition, despite the fact that some of it might still be good. Or all of it, they don't know, because DOD systems can't share that information   (marinecorpstimes.com ) divider line
    More: Asinine, DoD, Tom Carper, governmental affairs committee, Reaper Drone, Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel  
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5138 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Apr 2014 at 7:51 PM (2 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2014-04-28 06:06:33 PM  
Or, in civilian prices, 2 bricks of .22lr and a box of .45 ACP
 
2014-04-28 07:03:37 PM  
3.bp.blogspot.com

Why don't they sell surplus small arms ammo to the public and use the proceeds to build a better inventory system?  That kind of seems like a no-brainer.
 
2014-04-28 07:09:26 PM  
So the different services use different systems? Can't they simply have each service put their inventories on to excel spreadsheets and merge them? Or is this yet another example of stupid inter-service rivalry trumping the needs of the country?
 
2014-04-28 07:17:37 PM  
The GAO found that the Army and its missile command "do not contribute to required annual report"

Well, they were busy.

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2014-04-28 07:20:24 PM  

Dinki: So the different services use different systems? Can't they simply have each service put their inventories on to excel spreadsheets and merge them? Or is this yet another example of stupid inter-service rivalry trumping the needs of the country?


I'm sure each service has developed its own proprietary ammunition-tracking computer program that is 100% incompatible with any other. That's fairly par for the course for the armed forces.
 
2014-04-28 07:53:11 PM  
You're telling me that the military budget gives the Pentagon way more shiat than they actually need, purely so the people who run the companies that make that shiat can make more money?
 
2014-04-28 07:54:51 PM  
I will volunteer to test it for them if they let me borrow some automatic weapons
 
2014-04-28 07:54:59 PM  

Fark It: Why don't they sell surplus small arms ammo to the public and use the proceeds to build a better inventory system? That kind of seems like a no-brainer.


Because Federal Reserve.

/$300 to ship a .70 washer from NC to TX
//$492 hammer
 
2014-04-28 07:55:56 PM  
Sounds like a waste.
If the ammunition is safe to use then they should have no problem offloading the whole stack.
 
2014-04-28 07:56:58 PM  
Do they even use compatible ammo?   I mean, even within each caliber there are so many types.
 
2014-04-28 07:57:01 PM  
I always thought the quartermasters would be an internal cabal of hoarders.
 
2014-04-28 07:58:24 PM  

Knows what to do with a "surplus" of military gear...


i.vimeocdn.com

 
2014-04-28 07:59:03 PM  

Rincewind53: I'm sure each service has developed its own proprietary ammunition-tracking computer program that is 100% incompatible with any other. That's fairly par for the course for the armed forces.


*reads TFA*

The Army is doing it correctly.

Ammunition that is properly stored lasts a very, very long time.
/Wants .45 ACP
 
2014-04-28 07:59:53 PM  

Fark It: [3.bp.blogspot.com image 850x637]

Why don't they sell surplus small arms ammo to the public and use the proceeds to build a better inventory system?  That kind of seems like a no-brainer.


PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE!
 
2014-04-28 08:00:24 PM  

flondrix: Do they even use compatible ammo?   I mean, even within each caliber there are so many types.


You must be joking.
/Right?
//Tell us you're joking.
 
2014-04-28 08:01:37 PM  
It probably all works fine.

They just want to blow that shiat UP.
 
2014-04-28 08:02:05 PM  

Fark It: Why don't they sell surplus small arms ammo to the public and use the proceeds to build a better inventory system? That kind of seems like a no-brainer.


Because the ammo probably never existed.

You clean up all the paper trails by destroying it.

img.fark.net
 
2014-04-28 08:03:17 PM  
Saves 70 mill on 1 billion of waste; that's only 7%. Amateurs...

Let me do it, I would charge $250 mill; and save them 3/4 of a billion a year... sweet...

(One year, I was in charge of shooting up 2 truck loads of unused ammo/demo for an Infantry Bn. 50,000 rnds of .50 cal/ 7.62/ 5.56mm each type, 10,000 rnds of 9mm and .45. Plus, 15 M72 Laws, hundreds of Grenades and smokes... and 12 claymore mines... what a waste of good stuff; all due to Bn Staff officers not knowing how to schedule ranges/ company rotation training, etc.).
 
2014-04-28 08:06:03 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: flondrix: Do they even use compatible ammo?   I mean, even within each caliber there are so many types.

You must be joking.
/Right?
//Tell us you're joking.


not joking. People are that clueless.

Hint - for military handguns - rifles (excluding sniper rifles) there is only "ball" ammo (FMJ)
 
2014-04-28 08:07:31 PM  
Bull.  In the mid-2000's I personally worked on a system called the "Ordinance Information System".  It was spearheaded by the Navy (who's in charge of moving around most of DoD's supplies).  The OIS took into account everything.  Sea Lift, Air Lift, Rail, etc.  It accounted for strategic pre-positioned stockpiles, etc.  It reduced waste by cross-leveling.  Major shipments were tracked by sat-linked GPS transponders and we could even track down to the bullets fired using in-weapon round counters (used accelerometers and were read by RFID).  It solved all of this nonsense and removed the excuse for destroy-in-place.  It went on to win several awards in both the public and private sector.  Glad to see no one is using it.  This is crap.
 
2014-04-28 08:08:37 PM  
If only we could find some waste in government that we can eliminate

/the derp conspiracy is it is a government conspiracy to buy up all the ammunition, then destroy it to reduce supplies available to the private market.  basically the government demand overwhelms supply so that there are shortages in the private sector.  stories like this feed into that.
 
2014-04-28 08:08:40 PM  

flondrix: Do they even use compatible ammo?   I mean, even within each caliber there are so many types.


MIL SPEC for small arms is for basic ball ammunition. the 7.62 stuff sometimes incorporates tracers for automatic weapons. All the way up to .50 cal. Even if the USMC used 9mm Hydra-Shok and the Navy used 9mm Mag-Safe, it all works the same way. Tap, rack, bang.
 
2014-04-28 08:10:30 PM  

flondrix: Do they even use compatible ammo?   I mean, even within each caliber there are so many types.


All of NATO is theoretically supposed to have compatible ammo, but I wouldn't put it past the different branches farking that up somehow.
 
2014-04-28 08:15:23 PM  

Fark It: [3.bp.blogspot.com image 850x637]

Why don't they sell surplus small arms ammo to the public and use the proceeds to build a better inventory system?  That kind of seems like a no-brainer.


Because they don't want us to shoot the politicians with it like they deserve
 
2014-04-28 08:16:32 PM  

Swampmaster: Saves 70 mill on 1 billion of waste; that's only 7%. Amateurs...

Let me do it, I would charge $250 mill; and save them 3/4 of a billion a year... sweet...

(One year, I was in charge of shooting up 2 truck loads of unused ammo/demo for an Infantry Bn. 50,000 rnds of .50 cal/ 7.62/ 5.56mm each type, 10,000 rnds of 9mm and .45. Plus, 15 M72 Laws, hundreds of Grenades and smokes... and 12 claymore mines... what a waste of good stuff; all due to Bn Staff officers not knowing how to schedule ranges/ company rotation training, etc.).


Had to do the same when I was in the Army. If we didn't use up all the rounds and explosives by the end of the fiscal year we would get told, "Obviously you didn't need that much stuff so you get a smaller supply for next year." We had a hell of a shooting party and blew up an old range tower with det cord.
 
2014-04-28 08:18:22 PM  
I'll take some 9 off your hands if you's don't want it.
 
2014-04-28 08:20:07 PM  
What a non sharing DOD system might look like:

img.fark.net
 
2014-04-28 08:20:53 PM  

Gyrfalcon: It probably all works fine.

They just want to blow that shiat UP.


Winner winner.
 
2014-04-28 08:21:16 PM  
fappomatic:
MIL SPEC for small arms is for basic ball ammunition. the 7.62 stuff sometimes incorporates tracers for automatic weapons. All the way up to .50 cal. Even if the USMC used 9mm Hydra-Shok and the Navy used 9mm Mag-Safe, it all works the same way. Tap, rack, bang.

...except the armed forces can't use expanding bullets.

The Hague Convention prevents that.

Plain old ball ammo for pistols.
 
2014-04-28 08:23:21 PM  

demaL-demaL-yeH: Rincewind53: I'm sure each service has developed its own proprietary ammunition-tracking computer program that is 100% incompatible with any other. That's fairly par for the course for the armed forces.

*reads TFA*

The Army is doing it correctly.

Ammunition that is properly stored lasts a very, very long time.
/Wants .45 ACP


LAX Ammo has .45 acp for .39 cents a round shipped, 500 rounds new in a case, or cheaper if you go re manufactured.
 
2014-04-28 08:25:12 PM  

cirby: fappomatic:
MIL SPEC for small arms is for basic ball ammunition. the 7.62 stuff sometimes incorporates tracers for automatic weapons. All the way up to .50 cal. Even if the USMC used 9mm Hydra-Shok and the Navy used 9mm Mag-Safe, it all works the same way. Tap, rack, bang.

...except the armed forces can't use expanding bullets.

The Hague Convention prevents that.

Plain old ball ammo for pistols.


That's my point. While I'm at it, I do need to correct myself. There are a number of mission specific types of .50cal. ammunition. Ball, frag, tracer, exploding.
 
2014-04-28 08:26:53 PM  

steklo: What a non sharing DOD system might look like:

[img.fark.net image 281x484]


oh dear lord kill it with fire
 
2014-04-28 08:29:33 PM  
Well, I can see why the military might not be interested in issuing ammo that "might" still be good. They should put it in unsorted in mixed buckets and sell it to prepper stockpilers to fill their basements with and recover some of the cost. The "you can never have too much ammo" mentality will snap it up.
 
2014-04-28 08:33:54 PM  

KarmicDisaster: Well, I can see why the military might not be interested in issuing ammo that "might" still be good. They should put it in unsorted in mixed buckets and sell it to prepper stockpilers to fill their basements with and recover some of the cost. The "you can never have too much ammo" mentality will snap it up.


If they sell it cheap? I'd buy it to run at 3gun matches.
 
2014-04-28 08:34:50 PM  

KarmicDisaster: Well, I can see why the military might not be interested in issuing ammo that "might" still be good. They should put it in unsorted in mixed buckets and sell it to prepper stockpilers to fill their basements with and recover some of the cost. The "you can never have too much ammo" mentality will snap it up.


I'd buy it.  Sounds perfect for target or plinking ammo.
 
2014-04-28 08:37:05 PM  

phillydrifter: Fark It: Why don't they sell surplus small arms ammo to the public and use the proceeds to build a better inventory system? That kind of seems like a no-brainer.

Because Federal Reserve.

/$300 to ship a .70 washer from NC to TX
//$492 hammer


I bet it wasn't really that much.  I bet they made it up and blew the rest on whores.
 
2014-04-28 08:37:06 PM  

KarmicDisaster: Well, I can see why the military might not be interested in issuing ammo that "might" still be good. They should put it in unsorted in mixed buckets and sell it to prepper stockpilers to fill their basements with and recover some of the cost. The "you can never have too much ammo" mentality will snap it up.


They should send it to the ranges to be used up there.  You can't have too much range time and if the ammo is old enough and there is a higher rate of duds, then clearing the malfunctions is also good practice.
 
2014-04-28 08:37:37 PM  
"The problem was how to keep the wheels of industry turning without increasing the real wealth of the world. Goods must be produced, but they must not be distributed. And in practice the only way of achieving this was by continuous warfare. The essential act of war is destruction, not necessarily of human lives, but of the products of human labour. War is a way of shattering to pieces, or pouring into the stratosphere, or sinking in the depths of the sea, materials which might otherwise be used to make the masses too comfortable, and hence, in the long run, too intelligent. Even when weapons of war are not actually destroyed, their manufacture is still a convenient way of expending labour power without producing anything that can be consumed. A Floating Fortress, for example, has locked up in it the labour that would build several hundred cargo-ships. Ultimately it is scrapped as obsolete, never having brought any material benefit to anybody, and with further enormous labours another Floating Fortress is built."- George Orwell, 1984
 
2014-04-28 08:40:28 PM  

youmightberight: demaL-demaL-yeH: flondrix: Do they even use compatible ammo?   I mean, even within each caliber there are so many types.

You must be joking.
/Right?
//Tell us you're joking.

not joking. People are that clueless.

Hint - for military handguns - rifles (excluding sniper rifles) there is only "ball" ammo (FMJ)


You forgot blank, tracer, AP, match. I use to approve ammo request for a  BDE and the DoDAAC list for different ammo is pages long. The ammo manager for a state or division (not me)  needs to be part "Rain man" and part accountant with all the forecasting, trading and training cancellations that happen. I agree with those that say put it on the civilian market. Hell we paid for it already.
 
2014-04-28 08:40:43 PM  
Only a billion? They piss that much away in half a day, every day.
 
2014-04-28 08:40:58 PM  

KarmicDisaster: Well, I can see why the military might not be interested in issuing ammo that "might" still be good. They should put it in unsorted in mixed buckets and sell it to prepper stockpilers to fill their basements with and recover some of the cost. The "you can never have too much ammo" mentality will snap it up.


There's also the "Hey, it's cheap." mentality.

If the military sold a gun range 1,000,000 bullets, and you could go shoot several hundred of them for a very low price, that would be a fun afternoon.
 
2014-04-28 08:44:50 PM  

kyrg: I agree with those that say put it on the civilian market.


Yeah, it might free up some of the manufacturers that seem to be spending all their time trying to fill orders from the military and tacticool crowd.  Maybe then I could find 6mm and 20 caliber stuff on the shelves again.
 
2014-04-28 08:47:13 PM  
                           What a DOD interview might look like.

i.imgur.com
 
2014-04-28 08:48:46 PM  
sounds like time for a SPENDEX!!!
 
2014-04-28 08:52:21 PM  

kyrg: Hell we paid for it already.


hey, they could put it in the CMP and hold clinics and safety training with it. or sell it that way.
 
2014-04-28 08:52:38 PM  

oldtaku: Only a billion? They piss that much away in half a day, every day.


Bonus, they don't eally have it since we're 17 trillion in hock.  17,000,000,000,000.00 and they still have a checkbook, credit cards and just throw stuff away.  Cause "meh".
 
2014-04-28 08:52:50 PM  

devildog123: Or, in civilian prices, 2 bricks of .22lr and a box of .45 ACP


cheaperthandirt might as well be my start page.  Last time I looked, .45 was one of the cheaper things you could buy.  What the hell.
 
2014-04-28 08:55:44 PM  
ordnance has a shelf-life. The labor cost to ascertain whether or not the ordnance in question is still viable may exceed the value of the ordnance and associated materiel. In addition, the outcome of storage and/or transport of the aforementioned ordnance may be similarly not worth the cost. Therefore the ordnance and materiel should usually be destroyed in situ because it cannot be abandoned in place.

just sayin.
 
2014-04-28 08:58:25 PM  

fatty.fauntleroy: Bull.  In the mid-2000's I personally worked on a system called the "Ordinance Information System".  It was spearheaded by the Navy (who's in charge of moving around most of DoD's supplies).  The OIS took into account everything.  Sea Lift, Air Lift, Rail, etc.  It accounted for strategic pre-positioned stockpiles, etc.  It reduced waste by cross-leveling.  Major shipments were tracked by sat-linked GPS transponders and we could even track down to the bullets fired using in-weapon round counters (used accelerometers and were read by RFID).  It solved all of this nonsense and removed the excuse for destroy-in-place.  It went on to win several awards in both the public and private sector.  Glad to see no one is using it.  This is crap.


You hooked your star to someone within the gov't with no powers of implementation. Want to get something done? Stick with the FUDS program or another major remediation effort. 'Green' stuff is all the rage and gets all the appropriations.
 
2014-04-28 09:01:54 PM  
what a controlled burn of ammunition might look like:
 
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